UPDATE: Deye have responded and asked me to make this post: "As an employee of Deye in Australia, I would like to address this issue with complete transparency. Deye, as a globally leading manufacturer of energy storage inverters, has always been committed to providing our customers with cost-effective and high-quality products. Our product failure rates are relatively low compared to our peers in the industry. During the past couple of years, the pandemic caused significant supply chain challenges, making it difficult to procure certain components while the demand for energy storage solutions surged. To ensure continuous product supply, we had to use alternative components. Please rest assured that all these alternative components are A-grade and have undergone rigorous testing to meet industry standards and certification requirements. The inconsistency between the components in our products and those mentioned in our catalog is due to our failure to update the catalog （2022-2023 Version）in a timely manner. We sincerely apologize for this oversight. We have taken immediate steps to rectify this and will update our catalog as soon as possible._ "

@Petertronic

14 күн бұрын

Hmm, this unit was made in 2023, I would have thought that was well after the supply shortages recovered. There is NO shortage of Panasonic, Omron etc decent quality relays that I am aware of.

@kurohyuki5912

13 күн бұрын

They can switch suppliers but they can't update a brochuer? Hmmmkay.

@ThePonderi

13 күн бұрын

Interesting. But the inverter is widely used. We will see.with time

@dr_jaymz

12 күн бұрын

When substituting components for chinese equivalents sometimes they can be superior especially recently. The challenge is to maintain that consistency in the supply chain because the first 10,000 off may even be rebadged as chinese when they are not until you replenish further down the line and find out they change it. If the manufacturer monitors failure rates and keeps track of what fails the results can be surprising, why spend 5$ on a relay when $1 has no additional failures. We perhaps need to change our perceptions that its automatically rubbish if note made here or a brand we don't recognise, in a lot of cases they come down the same production line. Its maintaining that quality and keeping fakes out of the supply chain thats a pain - and that applies to branded stuff as well.

@hilo90mhz

12 күн бұрын

@@ThePonderi my brand new new Deye 50K uses Nichicon capacitors, didn't go further inside to check the semiconductors. But some are still using the old brands.

@22:05 - The HERIC patent expired last year. It's now public domain.

@stevenbliss989

20 күн бұрын

GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :):):)

@simontillson482

19 күн бұрын

I don’t know how they ever managed to obtain or enforce that patent. Multilevel inverter topologies have been published in literature for decades, and the single-phase tri-level topology is both commonly known and bloody obvious. Where is the innovation in it?

@ignispurgatorius5297

17 күн бұрын

@@simontillson482 The whole patent system is a swamp of morons frankly. It starts with the patent offices and ends with the courts. My company holds a patent for a simple mathematic operation on a measured value in a niche industry. Everytime someone mentions it I can't help but shake my head... Likewise some of our competitors hold patents that block us because they managed to patent basic mechanical principles. One of them even managed to patent a simple translatoric servo system. It's not about actually protecting ingenuity, it's just a way for big companies to troll one another.

@WizardTim

15 күн бұрын

Although don't forget while the original EP2086102A3 patent has expired *in some regions* , the name "HERIC" is a legally separate and distinct registered trademark which will never expire (if renewed correctly).

@brianhginc.2140

15 күн бұрын

@@WizardTim I don't believe any inverters sold have ever boasted in print 'Contains HERIC(TM) technology.' This would infringe on the use of the trademark name. Today, the inverters just boast a global conversion % efficiency.

Company should be done for false advertising, making false claims about their product, they are obviously using the name brands as a sales point otherwise they wouldn't even mention the brands used.

@zentechnician

21 күн бұрын

Made of the finest Chinesium you can get though. We promise.

@tschuuuls486

21 күн бұрын

They almost got away with ommiting the AC main relays in their microinverters (or not using them). They left them out because it's a failure prone item. They used them for the regulatory test units but not in retail ones. German regulators didn't like that move and pulled them from the market and mandated them to install relays.

@p_mouse8676

21 күн бұрын

I totally agree, but in that case we have to shut down 99% of all companies?

@ursodermatt8809

20 күн бұрын

what you expect? they are chinese after all.

@brentdennard6722

20 күн бұрын

@@p_mouse8676yes we should! But not permanently, just long enough for them to wake up to the fact that regulatory agencies don’t want them skirting the system.

you'll probably find a single 10u 16v nichicon capacitor on the board somewhere so that they can still make the claim that they use their parts.

@animarkzero

20 күн бұрын

My Sun-8k SG04LP3-EU which is three phase has the real deal inside---> Nichicon all the way😃 It was produced in August 2022! So maybe the had to cheap out on the way....?

@adon8672

17 күн бұрын

​@@animarkzeromaybe this is part of the Chinese companies' response to America's trade wars. Preemptively swap out western and Japanese components before they get banned.

Just had a visit to a Deye dealer in Melbourne and checked out the 12kw 3 phase hybrid. Amongst other things I was told that Deye make every component in the unit including the resistors. I didn't argue and said thanks and left. I think the product is quite good but have my suspicions about the dealers!

The planets must have been in alignment for Dave to receive a parts unit like this, and the same as he’s installing himself. Once in a lifetime clearly welcomed!…..nice!

Excellent video. Fascinating. Thanks to everyone who contributed.

An explanation of the DRM interface. A key requirement of AS4777. 2 is Demand Response Mode (DRM) defined in the standard AS4755 Demand Response Standard which enables the inverter to respond to signals sent to it remotely. These signals trigger the inverter to change the mode of operation, potentially turning it off, on, or ramping the output up or down. To allow the electricity network operator to better manage the grid. The RJ45 would be connected to a ripple receiver (decabit/K22 signalling receiver) this device is usually provided by the local distribution network provider for the local area, the RJ45 interface board is simply monitoring contact closures from an attached receiver. DRM modes are: DRM 0 - Operate the disconnection device, DRM 1: Do Not Consume Power, DRM 2 Do not consume at more than 50% rated power, DRM 3 Do not consume at more than 75% rated power / Source reactive power if capable. DRM4: Increase power consumption. DRM 5: Do not generate power. DRM 6 Do not generate at more than 50% rated power, DRM 7: Do not generate more than 75% of rated power AND Sink reactive power if capable, DRM 8: Increase power generation. DRM modes DRM 1, DRM 2 and DRM 3 are also commonly used for controlling domestic loads such as air conditioning. EEVblog 1283- What is Mains Ripple Injection? kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqNoxJmDmNPee7Q.html

There's no secondary side DC blocker because they figure that blowing the 150A fuse is the least of your problems if two of those FETs turn on at the same time.

@EEVblog

20 күн бұрын

Yeah, fair enough.

@RLPE

20 күн бұрын

But they must have some sort of DC elimination strategy for normal operation - it's easy to end up applying a small amount of DC to the transformer over a long period from changes in modulation (phase shift, duty cycles etc.) and then you end up with core saturation. Either there is a blocking cap hidden along with the transformer in that potted enclosure, or they're doing something fancy like measuring the core flux or one of the other uncommon ways of mitigating this issue (maybe something to do with the extra leads), in which case, why put one on the high voltage side?

@bgdwiepp

20 күн бұрын

Probably PSFB and not running it all the way to 100%/50% dutycycle, bleeding off any extra flux in that "short" time

@otherphoenix1

20 күн бұрын

I was thinking it could be susceptible to flux walking and maybe it was an llc as there is a large series capacitor labelled Cr5 on the hv side but there are other parts missing in that case. It's likely operated differently.

@nshattock

18 күн бұрын

I would have thought that they would be using an LC resonant tank circuit to reduce losses and therefore only need one capacitor. I don't think it would have anything to do with safety. Not sure if they are doing a full DAB topology without looking at transformer construction and switching waveforms

Really nice to see the guts and a bit of how it works. Last year I implemented a UPS for my whole home office with a 3 kW hybrid inverter from China. 24 volts of battery and just 400W of PV panels to keep the DC topped up. Works pretty well and has let me ride through numerous 1-3 second power drop-outs and about an hour once when a storm knocked out the power. Since the batteries spend most of their time at full charge and doing nothing, I'm testing a grid-tie inverter added on to the DC side to kick in only when the air conditioner is running. Should help defray the cost of cool this summer.

Look how nice and soft that potting is. Super lucky there. The hard stuff I just drop whatever it is into a pot of boiling water for a couple of minutes and whatever the potted secrets it was hiding become so much easier to to uncover. Some of these ebike controllers I do work on are encased in stone like resins that require medieval methods.

@EEVblog

20 күн бұрын

Yeah, was still annoying and sticky enough to not easily be able to get the coils out though.

@zentechnician

20 күн бұрын

@@EEVblog That was a really good teardown man. Between you showing the parts numbers and their ability to produce a decent looking silk screen a person could practically duplicate that thing, if it were worth duplicating that is. You were showing those links etc and talking about them needing more is definitely reminding me if these potted controllers. These are very high wattage dealies from electric dirt bikes so 10k+ wattage. They are linking these phases etc so unevenly it drives me nuts. You spend 2 hours depotting the thing and you still have to get to the power stage board underneath the brains of it and then it's just all kinds of ugly when you get to it. Just biggkes the mind. No wonder they encased it like Han Solo, they were embarrassed for anyone to see it. I try to comfort myself by thinking they use a thermal camera and just add more links at hot spots and someone actually cares but that probably not a thing. What I see happening is this, one company haxs a bunch of different names they operate under, they saturated the market so it looks like there are choices. They own all the most well known brands for this specific market so they are only competing with themselves but no one realizes this. They purposely provide some of the worst documentation . China has quite a few people I've heard, but apparently one that speaks English and understands these controllers is not possible. People get fed up and just switch brands. To be fair they really go out of their way to obfuscate the fact that they are all connected. They even choose different protocols etc between brands, maybe to make you buy another programmer or maybe it's just the difference in usage in Asian markets. People are using what are motorcycle controllers on bicycles. They get you coming and going, I guess it's good business maybe? I don't run my business that way but I don't live in China either so there's that. I hope those inverters are cheap. The Chinese metric system I always just assume the numbers they give you can probably run at 33% comfortably and %50 if you want to push it so you buy 3 if the things, use 2 to equal 1 good one, have a 3rd as a spare which you are definitely going to need and you still have money left over. How can you compete with that? Sometimes you put out the money for the good one and it dies too . Step right up, spin the wheel. Everyone's a winner. Uh huh.

@patrickpafarnis5798

20 күн бұрын

@@zentechnician Very nice explanation of how the Chinese market works.

@zentechnician

20 күн бұрын

@@patrickpafarnis5798 To be fair our companies do the same stuff. I think it was a National Geographic article maybe that I read about a Consumer Reports type company that realized that 3 of the washing machines they had fur review were the same machine. Whirlpool owns lots of brands they dosone Kenmore stuff and Amana, I think Maytag too. Many more. So the machines all performed exactly the same, the difference was different art of the control panels and slightly fancier plastic knobs on the Amana. So there was a cheap one then the next one up was like 60 bucks more, and then the Amana with the fanciest knobs was $130 more. Everything underneath that outer shell was exactly the same aside from some branding, but it was all made in the same factory. This us like one of those brain on drugs commercials. Who taught you this? I learned it from you dad I learned it from you. lol

@monad_tcp

20 күн бұрын

@@zentechnician They must like gambling if that's how they do business, I kind of get why they like gacha games so much.

I'd go for a Fronius inverter made in Austria very high quality. Excellent company they also make some of the best welders in industry. They've been around for ages too.

12:39 I don't think it was merely happenstance or 'running out of room', that they moved all the electrolytic caps away from the switching PCB, where all the toasty FET devices reside.

The beam counters had a blast with that thing !

Thanks for teardown

Very revealing. I’ll never buy this company’s products now thanks to you Dave. It’s looks like a fantastic quality product but the lies… the lies are enough to scare me away.

@EEVblog

20 күн бұрын

Fair call.

@hilo90mhz

20 күн бұрын

Pretty sure it's a matter of the sales people not updating that brochure... I have their HV model and it does have real TI DSP and I believe Nippon capacitors.. didn't check the fets.. but they have used all those brands in the past, they're just not keeping up with the marketing materials as they lower costs.

wow let me get my popcorn for the show! do more teardown on grid connected inverter!

Thanks Dave, fun tear down shows sometimes marketing tricks just greatly exaggerate lies.

Appreciate the inverter power topology diagram. Interesting. Thanks. Like you said, the drivers must be super critical- if two opposing switches accidentally overlapped, bang- game over.

You may have noticed that the Chinese manufacturers don't seem to believe in multi-phase converters to spread the load, just everything in parallel with the fattest inductor possible. The long thing is the mains output filter for the sinewave inverter and the round one is the boost inductor. I have a similar one, part disassembled, a growatt 2.5kW model that was dead before use. You may get a 'bang' for your buck sooner than expected.

@EEVblog

20 күн бұрын

We'll see, fingers crossed.

@volodymyrzakolodyazhny7740

20 күн бұрын

For modern cheap Chinese hybrid inverters ' you have to dissassemble them first (DON'T TURN ON), look carefully, add all points of soldering needed, etc. Only then, after carefull inspection - you can turn it on, under a power.

@vincei4252

20 күн бұрын

I tried a Growatt Inverter for about 2 weeks and cut my losses pretty quickly. Over volting the batteries and forcing them to shutdown into protection mode.

Thank you very much, your circuit design review style is interesting. You are a great engineer, and the video is excellent. Wishing you energy and inspiration! From Ukraine...

The "HERIC" patent is effectively just pair of synchronous rectifiers head-to-head to do for AC exactly the same job that synchronous rectifiers do for DC. Haven't read the patent but I'm guessing those transistors are also used for PFC boosting as well when charging batteries from AC. If someone made a fully synchronous bridge-less PFC circuit for a power supply, it would probably infringe this patent too,

Looks like an EMC nightmare. Thanks for the video, very interesting.

Great vid

I am using this exact type of hybride inverter for over a year now in combination with a solar assistant controller. It's been flawless so far. The solar assistant controller is used as a epex price switching device, buy cheap electricity and unload from the battery when the price is high, ideaal combination.

I believe Deye makes the Solark 5K, 12K & 15K solar inverters. I've had a 12K for 4 years that has been a happy little camper. I saw a partial non destructive teardown of a Solark 5K and it indeed did have quality components and Nichicon caps. Maybe they take more care when they manufacture for partners? Solark does say they have a lot of control over what Deye manufactures for them.

@ursodermatt8809

20 күн бұрын

and that is one of the reasons the solarks are so much more expensive. i am sure.

@vincei4252

20 күн бұрын

@@ursodermatt8809 I know. I wasted money and time buying cheaper inverters. All my problems went away when I bought the Solark.

@tibbydudeza

19 күн бұрын

They an OEM manufacturer - they make inverters for SunSynk as well besides for themselves - same case and board but the panel software is different, and they got their own dongle and website.

@boots7859

4 күн бұрын

Thats the key point, external well known brands check to insure BOM parts match, because they have a reputation to maintain. SOP for Chinese manf's of Western goods will simply run extra shifts with similar Chinese parts to minimize unit cost and utilize the R&D thats aleady been done and the end profit it simply amazing. Amazing what you can make when you have cheap labor, cheap parts, and high-end existing IP already paid for.

This teardown was so extreme it blew the socks clean off my feet.

Did you ensure there was absolutely no Nippon-Chemicon caps in there? After all, they did not say "no Aishi capacitors" did they? 🤣

Those stupid pictures of children in nature in the brochure...

@EEVblog

20 күн бұрын

Standard marketing BS.

@redsquirrelftw

20 күн бұрын

Always jarrs me out when I see that, it's just so random.

It looks like the patent on the HERIC inverter has expired and no longer applies.

@NiHaoMike64

20 күн бұрын

How do the two extra IGBTs improve the design? I can see the point if it were a split phase design with a split bus cap, but for single phase, doesn't that achieve the same result as simply just turning on both low side or both high side IGBTs?

@RLPE

20 күн бұрын

@@NiHaoMike64 It's the same result except for the common mode voltage applied between the DC and grid side, which if done at high frequency may create common mode noise issues due to the environmental capacitance between the solar arrays and ground. So maybe HERIC reduces the common mode noise filtering requirement.

@NiHaoMike64

20 күн бұрын

@@RLPE Wouldn't it be more straightforward to have the AC output inductance all on the hot side and just have the neutral side be switching at a low frequency?

@otherphoenix1

20 күн бұрын

A normal h bridge switching 3 level creates a pwm frequency common mode square voltage on the dc side. This is because during the 0 state with both high or both low switches are on and thus a common mode voltage is presented to the grid. Using the extra two switches for this 0 state means the grid side is effectively disconnected from the high voltage dc side and no common mode voltage is presented. Also need to realise that the grid is earth reference so any common mode voltage present actually appears on the hv bus side wrt earth. Now all those heat sunk devices (on an earth heatsink) and even the solar panel array are all pinging away at pwm frequency to earth. That's an emi nightmare, it'll probably just blow up from self interference. SMA had their own H5 that achieved the same thing. Also various H6 and other esoteric versions of h bridge have been proposed to overcome this.

@otherphoenix1

20 күн бұрын

​@@NiHaoMike64 To be equivalent the pwm operated half bridge would need to operate at twice the frequency... Good luck with 1200V igbt. Or the inductor be twice as big. This is however a more feasible idea with GaN and is called a totem pole PFC. You can also look at a single phase neutral point clamped topology that gives 3 levels from a half bridge tied to the active while the neutral ties to the dc bus mid point.

super informational tear down bro.... i like this video.....

I wonder what all those high end component manufacturers think about their brand names being used to market a product but not actually using their devices?! Maybe they should get the heads up so they can respond!

Deye also manufacturers larger hybrids than the 5K of course. I took one of their 12Ks apart as well which was similar to this one. There is a US company that private labels and has engineering input to these. Sol-Ark. They specify the inverter output power at battery + solar. Higher watts than with battery and DC to DC converter alone. Their web access used to be hosted in China and I think that is changing to servers being able to be hosted in the US. They are obviously a top notch manufacturer. Those caps might be just fine. Would have to measure. We use a Chinese cap company (jianghai ) that use to (still does ?) manufacture Panasonic snap-ins that are awesome and low ESR. The USA versions have PV Arc-Fault which is now required here.

@HermanWillems

17 күн бұрын

lol USA really has a love hate relationship with China. Here in Europe we have far more real European options, for example from Europe. Where are your TRUE American inverter companies ?

I just noticed you've got a JBL Studio Series S26 speaker behind you. I've got a pair of S310, pair of S38, and S-Center for my TV setup. Great speakers.

Thanks you very much

Mr. you are a star

Do more videos like these, review the insides of inverters. Make comparison vs high frequency inverters vs low frenquency. Which is more durable, reliable from the inside out... Appreciate your videos thanks very much!!!

7:27 - Dave, give him your wallet. - What for? - He is doing a teardown. - That's not a teardown. THAT's a teardown!

Would love to see a talk through dc blocking in transformer topologies such as H bridge, push pull etc and maybe loop in snubbers, resetting the core techniques. Maybe flyback converters Very interesting topic !

Dave has psi abilities 🔮

15:43 Does anyone know the article number of that or similar smd current links❔ I need some for an 120A application

Nowhere did we see a claim pertaining to the Brand page. Did they specifically mention that those are the brands utilized? That's exactly their games. They lure you into make-believe, but will never mention it as a legally binding fact. Showing an image doesn't mean much. China sell you dreams. We just have to get used to it and decide appropriately. Nice teardown, by the way. I love it.

Great video quick question would you class this as a low frequency inverter or a high frequency inverter

Thanks for supporting the PRC.

@35:35 The other advantage of series relays is, IF they both open at the same time (or VERY close to it) it reduces or eliminates the arc across the contacts. The path between the two is effectively isolated when they open, so no place for the arc to go.

29:10 if there is a DC blocking caps here, it would be very very very VERY large capacitance. ie, there is 100A flowing here. Deye opted to use a small 150A fuse or allow the IGBTs to explode instead

The power in power out ratio would be interesting to know, measured, of course.

I install setups using these deye inverters it's been running for 3 years straight with no hiccups

I have a Deye hybrid 48v 3-phase 10kW. Runs like a dream. Did the initial setup, and never touched it since, never notice when grid goes down. I have 32kWh of battery capacity. Choose a 48v system for safer and cheaper batteries. And to get 3-phase and 48v battery Deye was one of very few manufacturers. And apparently they are the "goto brand" in africa because they just work.

The round transformer is wound with Litz Wire, and used for higher frequency systems. We used this for frequencies above about 250KHz. That's why youre seeing the fast rectifiers. Vishay is actually a good brand.

@27:58 in the video. The reason they are not using a blocking cap on the battery side is because the voltage is not high enough to overcome the losses. You would need a very large cap bank on that side to break even. In the end, it's just better to omit the cap all together. Remember that the current has to go through 2 sets of MOSFETs. So if one set shorts out, the current sensor can shut down the other set of MOSFETs and break the circuit.

So the solar panels are live! As well as being high voltage themselves. Spicy!

I have the 12k euro unit of that. So far, a year in, it seems like a very happy purchase.

Regardless of the manufacturer's ability to obtain the exact high-quality components in this current economy it seems like a very well built device...

@boots7859

4 күн бұрын

The tooling, molds and production lines were probably all part of the initial ramp-up expense made by the initial Western company. Why shut the plant down at 1700 hours and let it sit not making money?

@waxore1142

4 күн бұрын

@@boots7859 was referring to the PC board components that are sourced out.

When are you going to install the Deye on your Enphase system? I would like to know how you would install the Deye AC coupled.

Aishi (pronounced 'aye shur' cuz Pinyin) is a common cap brand to find in compact fluorescent and LED lamp ballasts, in which applications they seem to survive well enough given the roasting they get. The series connected Hongfa relays may be a cost cutting measure. I have 2 Sol-Ark 12K inverters made by Ningbo Deye (pronounced 'duh yuh') and all of the main AC relays are Japanese made Panasonic/Matsushita rated for 63A.

1620? I can't beleve it! Have seen around 1k videos on so many diferent devices. ❤❤

@EEVblog

20 күн бұрын

I'm old.

@TimonEckholdt-cx9ns

19 күн бұрын

No way

@ 31:53 everything is “ liver flavored” From the Garfield movie: when Jon comes home and tells Garfield that he brought him his favorite food with liver.. and Garfield replies: actually liver flavor😂 - this Inverter is just like that 😂 😅

Do one for the powerwall 3 please, this was amazing

Those Vishay diodes would be hard to substitute on the gray market. I bet they tried though. I'm sure they own a good thermal camera.

Future video idea: show how a tds meter works and how to use a multimeter to get the same results.

24:18 this guy didn't surprised me at all.

I’d like to see the waveforms during different modes of operation. Especially if the frequency shifts out of grid spec on the generator input to tell the microinverters to shut down. This is how the Tesla Powerwall/Gateway system handles off-grid operation with microinverters when the battery is full.

Now .. open a victron and see what's inside.

Cool! :)

@13:05 at 150A/36-48 v should arc like a welder in the right conditions on that small distance …. :p 😅

@volodymyrzakolodyazhny7740

20 күн бұрын

Yes, definitely.

@JanicekTrnecka

20 күн бұрын

If that fise is going to blow, I think that arcing in this particular area is one of the "minor" issues.

9:50 I was waiting for the words "Litz wire"!

The battery side of the HF transformer has no blocking capacitor as it is a phase-shift full bridge topology. A blocking cap would create an LC resonant circuit with the leakage inductance of the transformer. It needs a proper square-wave waveform to moderate its power flow. Infineon make an engineering sample PSFB DAB design.

I presume the 150A fuse substitutes for the DC side H-Bridge blocking cap. Issue with blocking cap is heat, reliability & board space (AC caps are bulky) and cost.

What's the image handling software Dave is using in this video?

3:03 - who would have thought that they have a coin cell battery on the back of the display? That means the battery cell will fail sooner or later. Would not have believed that.

@mihaiachim5299

20 күн бұрын

don't worry - the inverter will fail much faster than the battery😅

@matthewmarks6951

20 күн бұрын

@@mihaiachim5299 Yes, and also there should be no load on it unless there is no grid, PV or storage battery! I've got a heating programmer that's well over 20 years old and its CR2032 still powers it fine if the mains fails.

@hilo90mhz

20 күн бұрын

It's just for the realtime clock.. could last 10-20 years in that duty. The display PCB controls all the communication and user interface and scheduling for different time based modes.

@stusue9733

18 күн бұрын

@@hilo90mhz You may well be right but given where it is, wont it be a throw-away when it does? Given we are "trying to save the planet"(TM) that doesn't seem like the bet idea ever.

@hilo90mhz

18 күн бұрын

​@@stusue9733it's actually quite easy to get to the back of the screen, I have opened mine. Just the 8x hex screws and you're there. So really not hard to replace.

@ 39:07 Loctite SF7200 (again) for the conformat coating :p😊 Just give It 15-30 min (up to 24h)

There's a important point here regarding the PV switching that he doesn't go in to in much depth but the parasitic capacitance of the panels to ground is a significant one. After installing a hybrid system I noticed a huge 50Hz square wave electric field in my workshop. What happens is that the panels virtual ground is switch to neutral on the positive and negative part of the sine wave. This means that the panels jump up and down by several hundred volts with respect to earth so if you have them close by in the roof then can get capacitive coupling. It's the nature of the design. if you don't ground your panels then the frames will have a significant AC voltage with this weak coupling and if they are grounded or you have them on a flat tin roof then presumably thats a parasitic loss?

Makes me glad I went with Victron.

@VinoVeritas_

20 күн бұрын

So you only had a choice between Victron and Deye?

@sarahjrandomnumbers

20 күн бұрын

@@VinoVeritas_ Well I had a choice between Victron, Sunsynk (rebadged Deye) and a load of no name brands.

Protip: Conformal coat dissolves with flux remover or acetone Also, soft potting compound can often be de-laminated with compressed air

Let's teardown Afore AF6K-SL.

Can you show his wave form of inverter . One of these I saw zero crossing distortion .

@ 30:47 Loctite SF 7200 to remove the conformat coating😊 ( but keep It away from the screen of your fluke multimeter - It will put a hole in It 😅)

@blockbertus

20 күн бұрын

Sounds like someone is speaking from experience. ;-)

@SurvivalSquirrel

20 күн бұрын

@@blockbertus Any stuff would work. I learned this through an accident ;-)

Our 27kWp PV array also bleeds DC due to weather, it can saturate the measuring coil in the gfc. We have installed a gfc that ignores such DC bleeding.

@onpion

20 күн бұрын

DC-leakage currents can be quite dangerous as they will cause corrosion, so if there is enough leakage to trip the gfc you might not want to ignore that.

@picobyte

19 күн бұрын

@@onpion I'm all on it.

Yeah man. That looks very similar to my Sofar one.

@matthewmarks6951

20 күн бұрын

I've just bought a Sofar HYD5000 to play with. It does more than the manual claims - i.e. it actually charges the battery from solar panels on an existing inverter - but my battery uses an incompatible protocol (Renogy) and it doesn't play very well with it when set to lead-acid - it keeps charging for a bit, then stopping, with lots of relay-clicking. 😬

@seanoconnor8843

20 күн бұрын

@@matthewmarks6951 I knocked up my own battery with 280Ah lifepo cells, a Chinese BMS and a flight case. £2000. Works with my inverter a treat

Not sure I like the inductors mounting inside there, just dropped in and touching each other on wonky angles, might mean there is only a couple of layers of enamel to stop a short between different transformers, that isn't good.

@mihaiachim5299

20 күн бұрын

There is some kind of plastic insulation between them @ 7:54

@cannesahs

20 күн бұрын

*inductors

@brentdennard6722

20 күн бұрын

Yeah, you overlooked the plastic sheets dividing each toroid. Pretty great build quality, but why the lies? I hate false advertisement sooooo much

@TheDefpom

20 күн бұрын

@@cannesahs yeah, thanks

@mihaiachim5299

20 күн бұрын

@@brentdennard6722 the cure is not to buy :) But we love good lies…. That’s the problem … We love good specs for good money … and sometimes you can achieve this through an honest and successful design and other times through lying…

How long do you reckon it would take to design the circuity for one of these from scratch, maybe including test circuits too? I'm just getting into the EE field and don't know how to properly gauge the time it takes to design a large circuit, let alone these monster circuits.

@EEVblog2

15 күн бұрын

Oh wow, that's a how long is a piece of string question.

@29:20 If there is a short in the N-fets the fuse will save the day. The H-bridge is toast anyway.

Dave, note that the patent expired 15 May 2023. So no more money...

So false advertising everywhere.

@tschuuuls486

21 күн бұрын

They've done that once already and omitted the ac disconnect relay in the production unit and not in the one supplied to the certification ones. German regulators didn't like that.

Dave, can you please do a seperate video explaining tri level switching and HERIC.

@11:45 As far as I can find on the internet they are just 105C …

At 5:48, there is a date of 2022/1/8. Maybe they switched to Nippon Chemi-Con later since the brochure is 2023?

@ursodermatt8809

20 күн бұрын

i think the specs where for the american solark which is something like 3 times more expensive.

@EEVblog

20 күн бұрын

@@ursodermatt8809 Deye branded brochure, and was given to the Australian owner

@rasz

19 күн бұрын

Other way around.

Discombobulated litz wire, eh? It's a hyae-naaa... Despite the parts (who said it was ALL Nippon Chemicon or OnSemi?), it's a nice unit. As for service links, I don't really get it that they used those teeny tiny pieces rather than a length of wire soldered on top like at 37:05. That should be doable with pick&place machines too. The bi-directional DC/DC converter is beautiful in its simplicity and it's worth nothing that in a H bridge, the body diodes on non-conducting MOOSEFETs will also work as a FULL BRIDGE RECTIFIER! Quite an effective one, too - with very low drop... and with good cooling too.

@EEVblog

22 күн бұрын

Those links are handy because you can fit thousands of them on one slim reel in the PnP machine, low weight, fast to place etc. With those body diodes, I've been meaning to do a video on how regen braking on cars work which uses those nicely.

@matthewmarks6951

20 күн бұрын

@@EEVblog You surprise me - I would have thought that body diodes would have far too much voltage drop compared with turning the FETs on, but I bow to your expertise!

@maxtorque2277

20 күн бұрын

@@EEVblog Regen braking absolutely does not use the body diodes! Voltage synthesis is active at all times ie gates are being fired. Body diodes are really only conducting during dead time period and these days that's very short

I was recently given a hire e-bike or scooter battery pack, i thought maybe I could reuse some of the cells, my god they make them tough. Almost impossible to unpack. Filled with that rubber stuff in thick alu case. I think im going to have to cut the case down the middle with angle grinder to reach the cells from the side.

super like for this great analysis, very interesting. although a question arises: technically how does the inverter control in which direction the current flow on the AC side, from converter to grid or reverse, it's AC and therefore it doesn't seem simple to me.

@maxtorque2277

20 күн бұрын

The grid has an impedance, as does the inverter. The output filters also act to form a bit of a buffer. The inverter simply controls it's applied voltage to either take current from the gird (output V lower than grid) or to push current onto the grid (Vout > Grid) The votlage is of course in the AC domian and hence the inverters waveform must comensurately match that of the grid, ie it must be "sync'd" to the grid frequency

@matthewmarks6951

20 күн бұрын

Lots of complications: being "grid tied" it has to synchronise its AC output to the phase/frequency/voltage of the grid, and also instantly disconnect if the grid fails, for safety reasons (to avoid electrocuting anyone working on the supply). In terms of power direction, at its simplest I guess if the voltage on the DC bus is higher than the grid, it exports; otherwise, it imports.

@otherphoenix1

18 күн бұрын

The simple answer is that they use closed loop sinusoidal current control performed digitally inside the dsp. If you can control current into a stiff voltage (the grid) you can control power. Another way to think about it is that it is a like buck converter when generating and becomes like a boost converter when charging. But with sinusoidal current.

@matthewmarks6951

18 күн бұрын

@@otherphoenix1 Explains why it's difficult to find an explanation of how this works! What "sample rate" does the system need to operate at to control the output?

When the grid goes down, how does the system prevent that the generated current goes into the grid instead of your home? Did I miss something or is there external circuitry required?

@feicodeboer

13 күн бұрын

From the manual I understand that there is a separate 'backup load' that gets the fine stuff on grid outage.

It looks like that board/those caps are dated before the brochure so maybe they switched to better parts after this board was made?

Hello! Currently I have an inexplicable problem: when connecting wire N of the grid and wire N of the load together, it causes error F07 in the inverter. Why is it that when I connect to the AC circuit, there is an error (failure) in the DC circuit? What is unusual is why when connected together, the Relay must be broken, but why is the DC circuit broken (error) and reporting F07?

Do they have the higher quality relays when there is only one as opposed to two in series?

@maxtorque2277

20 күн бұрын

This requires a "force guided safety relay" ie a relay that is expressely mechanically designed so as to not be able to weld or jam with both outputs connected. Unfortunately the extra complexity and lower production volumes make it cheaper to just use two normal relays rather than a single FG / safety relay in most cases

Chinese part substitutions are not about "getting them cheap". Its all part of Made in China 2025 plan/program. Companies are getting subsidies for using domestic parts, very smart and clearly effective.

At 15:30, perhaps those "pads" (none connected to each other) are for heat dissipation?

@mrnmrn1

20 күн бұрын

Not likely, because shiny metal surfaces have low IR emissivity, so their capability to dissipate heat radiatively is very low. Copper with solder mask on it radiates heat an order of magnitude better. Emissivity of shiny metal is like 0.05-0.1, with any non condutive coating it goes up to 0.8-0.98.

@springer9406

20 күн бұрын

​@@mrnmrn1 LOL. OK sure, pal.

uhm. i don't think those diodes are vishey. no logo or other identifier. i bet chinese clones with same part numbering

What role do Q14 and Q18 play in the circuit?

So how do you know you have one of two bad relays so far to avoid having two? Amazing how all the power goes along a PCB though.