Barkis Bittern is unmistakably the real villain. Maybe Victor is the anti-hero.

@TheFangirlWatches

2 жыл бұрын

An Anti-Hero is someone who doesn't want to be the hero, but it's forced upon him. Victor just wanders around hurting people.

@cityman2312

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheFangirlWatches What do you want to call him then? The anti-villain? Or the baddie, with Barkis as the "very baddie," like the set up with Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels which had baddies and very baddies? Although I doubt Burton saw it that way.

@pokeshippingdeerfoxmoonkit5592

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheFangirlWatches this is animal Crossing fan theory on Stitches that he was once a child's play toy the kid love this teddy bear is when the kid die it took look at bear and got in

@dandyman2182

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheFangirlWatches in order to be the villain hed have to want to cause harm and or get pleasure from it but neither are true hes just a socially awkward guy who ends up bumbling as you put it most of his interactions Emily stalked him long enough to know about his dog and dragged him back into the land of the dead when she caught him actively taking away his freedom

@Natalie-uc1kj

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheFangirlWatches But he doesn't intentionally cause harm does he? I doubt Burton was painting him out as a villain in any way. Maybe he's somewhat of a dick but he's no "villain"

As someone who is introverted I can sympathize with Victor. Was he right not to set Emily straight? No. But his parents seemed to be the pushy type who molded their son into being what they wanted. Making him very submissive. This is probably the first time in his life he has been able to make a decision. Or had much affection. You have to understand that back in the day servants did most of the child rearing and the parents were hardly present. Arranging marriages was about as much "affection" as you were going to get. While Victor is unconventional for his time with his ideals of love it's not uncommon or unheard of. You can look through out history and see stories of people who eloped or rejected their social standing to be with their one true love. Did they become social pariahs or end up getting killed for it? Yes. Sad but true. Again, I don't support Victor's choice, but you're looking at it with a somewhat modern day lense. You also seem to be a very extroverted person but Victor is obviously an introvert. Which puts you in a perspective you don't have. Is he somewhat antagonistic? Yes. But NOT a villain. Again, I don't condone his actions, but understand them as an introvert. There's nothing more terrifying for me than saying "no", socially engaging, or feeling I have disappointed someone. Which is what Victor feels like. I think if it was more of a series they would have done a "will they, won't they" thing. But since it's a movie? They couldn't fit that all in. Which is the vibes I got from the movie in terms of romance.

@TheNotverysocial

Жыл бұрын

The most accurate argument here is Barkus Bittern being able to opportunistically enact his plan when Victor disappears. Everything else blatantly disregards his personality type as though he chose to be that way: Timid and submissive. He did manipulate Emily, but he legit felt bad about it after the fact, but could not find the right words to say it. If he truly had no agency, and only went for whatever was in his presence, that whole trick of his would never have happened. He clearly wants Victoria. And that whole "Falling for Emily" thing is just as false. He is evidently showing basic empathy, trying to be a decent human being during that portion, own up to his mistake. He also grew a backbone when he faced Barkus at the end of it. Fangirl twisted this whole thing to be a Victor Van Dort hate video.

The reason why Emily turned into butterflies means she found her own peace and freedom. She possibly went to heaven.

"Unpopular oppion" The Corpse Bride is actually superior to Nightmare Before Christmas.

@Rockamolie

2 жыл бұрын

I agree wish it would get the level of praise Nightmare Before Christmas has.

@r.m.p_creations8693

2 жыл бұрын

@@Rockamolie I feel like originally neither got alot of love. Then it was trendy to like nightmare before Christmas and it just never died out... liking nightmare before Christmas shouldn't be a personality trait. No hate to anyone that does like it I just don't.

@aniflowers1998

2 жыл бұрын

I honestly never got why Nightmare Before Christmas is soooooo popular. Maybe I watched it at a to young age, but even rewatching it years later it just never really klicked with me? Sure, it has some...interesting visuals. But it has maybe 3 actual good songs? (at least for my taste) And while I can always remember which role which character played, I have a hard time remembering there personalitys. And the story itselfe just never really left an impact with me. While Corpse Bride isn't my favorite movie eather, I think I too would pick it over Nightmare Before Christmas

@r.m.p_creations8693

2 жыл бұрын

@@aniflowers1998 I agree with you. I know the characters of Nightmare but something about the story just leaves me feeling uninterested and unimpressed... Maybe that's because it's actually based on a poem... But every time I watch it I feel like there are major gaps in the storytelling of Nightmare.

@Kelsey1987

2 жыл бұрын

@@aniflowers1998 right but I actually think some of the songs from corpse bride are better than nightmare. remains of the day, the wedding song, and tears to shed are all great songs. I like both movies but I guess I like corpse bride more because I love Emily’s character.

I agree with the other people here saying he's more the antagonist, he's definitely not a hero. I always saw him as someone who just learned to always listen to women because of how his mother is. Also the family is newly rich and only rich people in that time really did arranged marriages so its very possible he thought he'd get to marry whoever he wanted until suddenly he couldn't.

@lazarus792

2 жыл бұрын

Yes. Exactly.

I don't see Victor as a villain, I see him as a timid shy man who makes mistakes. He's only human. Yes, he did lied to Emily, but he didn't know how to explain it because he was afraid, scared, paralyzed with fear and in shock. He can't think straight. He just wants to go home and be with Victoria. He wasn't in love with Emily, he just feels sorry for her. He couldn't save Victoria because he's stuck in the land of the dead. He thought it was all too late He thought he lost Victoria, he became depressed and thought life wasn't important anymore. I think Victor was kind of suicidal at that moment. He was willingly to keep Emily's promise, but Emily told him he already kept that promise. Victor did save Victoria's life from Lord Barkis. If he didn't, Victoria would have been Lord Barkis next victim (it turns out later that Lord Barkis was the one who murdered Emily). He was able to fight Lord Barkis with a fork instead of a sword. I think Emily made the right decision to let Victor go because if she married Victor and if he died, it would have been a selfish act. She realized she's about to take away Victor from Victoria. She realized she can't do it. She can't take away their happiness.

Even though I love corpse bride, i do think the characters like victor really could have needed more character development and him and Victoria needed way more chemistry. Like yes I understand it was a arranged marriage but still. The writers should have made it so victor and Victoria spent more time together maybe even knew each other as children idk. Honestly all of the characters in this movie needed way more characters development especially Victor. I think Emily‘s backstory was super weak literally the only thing we learn about her is that she was rich and fell in love with Barkas, and he murdered her in the woods. It would’ve been way more interesting if we actually got flashback scenes of her when she was alive. Nevertheless I still love this movie but yeah it definitely doesn’t have the most developed plot and characters.

I don’t think he is a villain but more of poorly raised and just has trouble with social cues Victor didn’t know she was going to marry a serial killer lord Barcus Victor is unsure about who to marry it’s a serious choice it might have made him anxious and jump into things

@katarinasp0rtals

2 жыл бұрын

FINALLY SOMEONE WHO AGREES WITH ME

@ulfberht4431

2 жыл бұрын

Sums up the whole problematic theory! Basically what I got out of this is… someone who has flaws is a villain!

Victor actually dealt with lord barkis near the end of the movie,he does manage to fight back somewhat despite his only weapon was a fork before Emily took the stab for him.

Mmmm probably better to say antagonist 🤔 Oh guys, just to be clear: Antagonist and villain is not the same thing 😅 Antagonist is someone who opposes the Protagonist’s goal, a villain is someone with evil intentions 😅

Something that I was able to take note of as I was re-watching the film again as an adult, was that in the theatrical cut of the film, it is never really explained why Emily knew of Victor's first name when they were never formally introduced when Emily was alive. However, in the original unedited screenplay which you can find online; there is a specific scene in which Victor is attempting to pursuade Emily to take him back to the land of the living under false pretenses (in a manner that is also highly remiscent of the final cut of the film) with the exception that she does eventually meet Mr. and Mrs. Van Dort and she seems to be instantaneously well-beloved by them and they do not seem to react adversely to her physical appearance either; as she explains that she was the late daughter and heiress to the "Merrimack" Family fortune and the Van Dorts reply that they are very fond of her parents and that they were good people. In an extended cut of the original scene, Emily also has a conversation with Victor in which she explains that she has been watching over him as his Guardian Angel in the woods whenever he would seek to have a moment of clarity or find solace in sketching; ever since she died and Victor reacts in a manner that would be considered to be highly uncharacteristic of him in comparison to the final cut of the film, as he feels "strangely touched" by her earnestness and compassion. Therefore, cannonically, her surname would be "Merrimack", which bears several connotations. In terms of terminology; a "Merrimac", (without the letter "K" at the end) is defined in the Mirriam-Webster Dictionary as a "street musician"; and it is also defined by its etymology as a surname originating from Native-American culture; (Now phonetically including the "K") which can possibly mean "Deep River Sturgeon" or "Deep Fishing Place." It is possible that Emily's family was also comprised of nouveau riche business investors/merchants just like Victor's family is; and since Victor and Emily are both prodigious musicians; they may have had far more in common than what even they believed initially and it is additionally possible that the Merrimack family were the ones who would mass distribute the products and services that Victor's parents would supply through their buisness venture and that could explain why the Merrimacks were indeed acquainted with the Van Dorts with the exception of Victor, given that in the original screenplay, it is stated that he has struggled with severe social anxiety and irrational fears ever since he was a child.

Ehh. I think you're a bit too hard on victor. I bet plenty of ppl in his time weren't happy about arranged marriages. His lying and avoidng or ditching Emily is understandable bc 1.she's a talking corpse, that's gross, she probably smells bad too 2. She scares him and she would scare anyone really, she's dead 3. She doesnt take no for an answer after he does tell her it was a misunderstanding, 4. He feels guilty for hurting her feelings and that's why he changed his mind plus i think he figured it was better than being around his and Victoria's family bc they weren't nice ppl at all and no that doesn't justify leaving victoria hanging but I really don't see victor as a bad guy. He was mostly just nervous, scared, and confused throughout the movie. He's a very human and realistic character. I mean some of the characters weren't scared by living corpses but he was. He seems the most normal in this movie.

True true but I wouldn't call him a villain. He hasn't harmed anyone, and everyone allowed themselves to be played along. Can't put it all on him. Dude is a nervous wreck before all of this, think about that. Victoria contained/controlled somewhat(prop). Emily is easily allured even if she stood up for that ending, she also let her want blind her.

Victor seems to me just to be an extremely timid person, suppressed by his mother and bad at social interactions. Which is why his actions might seem manipulative. I don't think he's narcissistic or a villain. An antihero - maybe, since he clearly has flaws, but not a villain since that entails malicious intent and I see none. I also don't believe for a second that he ever was actually interested in Emily. I think maybe he either started to pity her or just didn't want to disappoint her anymore. Besides, he wouldn't know about Barkis being a murderer, it was only fully confirmed at the last moment. Also, if anything, Emily isn't at all that great either. She's too focused on the idea of getting married to see that Victor clearly made an honest mistake and didn't know what he got into. I mean, how likely would it be for him to know there's a corpse bride in the forest, seek for her to purposefully marry her? Extremely unlikely, yet Emily doesn't realize it at all and probably she didn't really care. I think she was selfish and it's not her being a hero in the end, as much as it is her realising her own selfishness. Plus she whisked him away to the underworld. Twice. If you were whisked away in the weird new, potentially dangerous world by a corpse, wouldn't you try and use all possible means to go back to your world? Including a little manipulation?

I feel it's more just bad writing for the character. Victor just comes off someone who's been extremely sheltered so when he's told he has to get married to someone he's never meet he's nervous to the point that he messes up. Once he gets away from the crowd of people to practice is when he's actually able to relax. Basically he gets stage fright which is relatable but the rest of the movie kind of does his character dirty. I get we need drama but it just makes him come off as a manipulator when Barkus is supposed to be the manipulative villain. Emily is hand down the hero of the story. I do kind of wish they could have had the fight w/ Barkus. Have him drink the poison or whatever then Victor apologizes to both women for what he's done before choosing to be w/ Emily

@gracekim25

2 жыл бұрын

@@megantvenstrup7687 yeah as the two words are not one and the same 😅

I agree that Victor is a douchebag here, but I think he only was interested in Emily AFTER he heard that Victoria got married to Barkis. At least that's how I interpret it. Before, he is just sorry and I thought he just tried to make amends with Emily, then heard "Oh, Victoria has someone else? Well, hellooo Emily, you have any plans for Saturday?" But yes, a LOT could have been solved and many problems wouldn't have existed if he just had been honest.

@chiwza234

2 жыл бұрын

But he was just too shy and awkward i think he didn't want Emily to tell the truth because she would be heartbroken

@kimberlysnowyowl7871

2 жыл бұрын

@@chiwza234 It is at least possible, I hope that.

Tbh, I don’t think he is a villain or a bad guy, I think he’s someone with some kind of emotional disorder. I know because I have serious emotional disorder and I also have a hard time in romantic relationships. I’ve never had a successful one and I’m 40. I can really empathize with Victor.

People seem to forget that you can have more than one character that is not nice in the same film. Just because this other guy is a criminal doesn't mean Victor is a good person. I never liked him and is clearly not a hero. I also think he didn't learn or change anything by the end.

6:43 No, it's very clear. She clearly let go of her stranglehold on her wish to become married, thus having no more "unfinished business" to keep her tied to Earth. This video could have been better written. :(

@gracekim25

2 жыл бұрын

I thought she turned into butterflies because her killer was dealt with 😅

@KyrstOak

2 жыл бұрын

@@gracekim25 That would have helped her let go.

This video is insane victor was being held captive in another dimension and you call him the villain for tricking his captor who kidnaps him a second time dispite him cleary showing her hes not interested cx

@dranixrush3306

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!!!

@ichu7623

Жыл бұрын

To me it kinda makes since, I mean like he could've told Emily the truth the first time they sat and talked to each other. He could've said "Hey I don't really love you I'm engaged to someone else! I hope you understand." It would've made more since to do that rather agreeing to die to be with Emily because Victoria got married.

@sjsaunders1971

Жыл бұрын

@@ichu7623 Frankly, in the original 2004 screenplay, Victor does just that: tells Emily he's in love with Victoria Upstairs during their first speaking. However, Emily doesn't hestitate to then bash him by basically explaining how she loves him more than Victoria might. Perhaps they cut this whole thing in order to restrain Emily from the situation's context so the "Other Woman" scene would be more powerful? Or to protect runtime? Or to keep Emily from being bitchy? Either way, Victor in the screenplay still ends up tricking Emily to go Upstairs with him *and* agreeing to marry her after learning about Victoria. I have mixed emotions about this scene!

The desire to marry for love is not that new. The fact that it is now the main factor to get married is recent but there always were people who wanted to marry for love, even in arranged marriages. Exemple: Jean of Clisson, a french noble woman of the XIV century who yes technically was in an arranged marriage but she and her husband were deeply in love BEFORE and after. Wanting to spend your life with someone you love is as ancient as humanity itself perhaps. Being able to do it and it being socially acceptable is the recent part.

I don't know I think he was just rushed from a writing perspective, it felt like the writers needed stuff to happen so they used him. With the marriage to Victoria, it felt like it was neither of their choice, and after "marrying" Emily he stops being a person.

The part where he flat out lies to get back to Victoria always made me not like him. It was a bad move. Granted he's in a weird situation and there aren't any definite rules for "How nice do you have to be to a dead lady you accidentally married" I definitely do feel like he goes through a period where he's not nice, whether it be from him being poorly socialized or out and out rude or whatever but at the end, the fact that he is willing to at least go through with the wedding like he promised and Emily feels good enough that she thanks him and is free...that doesn't make him a hundred percent perfect but if it's good enough for Emily, it's good enough for me. But yeah...I get the general idea that he's not exactly the best, most endearing, heroic of characters. He likes his little normal box and Emily and her world is a bit too much (understandably) for him to take entirely in stride and Emily is hurt at times as a result. This is true.

How do you feel about Cinderella in Cinderella 3: A Twist in Time? Do you think she’s more proactive in that film?

@TheFangirlWatches

2 жыл бұрын

She's definitely more proactive, but she's completely out of character for who she was established to be in the first two movies.

Oh my goodness I was just watching your videos over Corpse Bride from years ago! I’ve always found this film fascinating.

Vector is obviously not good at social skills It could be he must a sheltered and home school kid who apparently never socializes with other people It's kinda like with Adrien agrest from miraculous ladybug that he's been home schooled and forbidden to leave his home And with relationships compare you already have a girl your about to marry then start liking a random person that you barely know I'm saying it's a really bad writing for any character

I love this and can never now unseen it! Victor is either a narcissist or not yet woken up to living out his own complex trauma, which I'd be interested to find more about his parents. Victoria is highly vulnerable and codependent, her parents are indeed recognised as more memorable than the Van Dorts in my opinion. Victor is lifted up, and Victoria is pushed down and cinched in. Emily is also codependent but is now aware of looking after her own person as she has learned discernment following death. While Emily & Victor's relationship was new, Emily showed high emotional fluctuation which is satisfying 'supply' towards Victor's own regulation. Victoria is the more desirable and susceptible target, and is likely more compliant and cooperative in fulfilling a wife duty at maximum supply. Emily has new learned skills and is now comfortable setting boundaries, and switching tactics, and Victor likely picked up on this!

I actually really like this POV and found it very interesting. It's cool to see the movie from a different perspective and it gave me something to reflect on for a bit. Thank you for continuing to share your videos even through harsh life events. You're a very beautiful, talented, and strong person. Best wishes to you!

The way you described victor sounds strangely identical to the person in my last relationship- let’s just say it brought back bad memories of that relationship and reminded me of how dumb I was

Victor was kidnapped, and people do what they have to. Victor is wishy washy, but a villian? Both Victor, and Victory are under the thumb of their parents. Emily comes along, and she like a force of nature. Villian? That ring bit? We forget this now, but doing is more then symbolic. It was a binding contract that makes two people one. It was considered scared, and magic. Mistake or not, Victor was married.

I love watching these types of video’s they make you think 👏🏾👏🏾😊

Well Emily isn't to great either the theory that Emily been stocking Victor by turning into butterflies and seems like the only person that talk to animals understanding Victors dog

Although, he was heartbroken when he heard about Victoria being betrothed to someone else, so chose to spend his (after)life with Emily, as if she loves him, he could learn to return those feelings. ALSO, as there was no priest, they weren't actually married anyway, a marriage (in this time) has to be overseen by a priest,

@TheFangirlWatches

2 жыл бұрын

And that's one of the things that bothered me. Emily said NO VOWS, and there was no one to oversee the wedding, so she was clearly just excited and hyped up to be chosen (and thereby have her existence validated) by a man. She knew they couldn't really be married, but, because Victor refuses to break the fantasy for Emily, things keep snowballing.

@michaelburns2003

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheFangirlWatches I agree with you on one thing though megayan(speling?), it is the fact that as long victor has one femail googling him, then he will only focus on that one female, whitch doesn't that make him a predator? in his own way he could've actually been stalked by Emily, as when the movie starts, the same butterfly victor had is the exact one Emily becomes at the end, do you think this is possible for a spirit/corps to shapeshifter if they have been in the underworld for long enough?

This is the niche content I LIVE for.

Hi! I love your videos! I love October!

@TheFangirlWatches

2 жыл бұрын

October is my months too! The best!

Also butterflies are symbolic with Angels. She turns into them bc now she is at peace and has let go. She's no longer longing for love. Now she can move on.

Haven't been keeping up with every single one of your videos lately but is there a particular reason this video is made in the old style with screenshots instead of a Webcam? I'm fine with either though.

I think the only fallacy here is aquainting villian with antagonist. You can totally conclude Victor is a villian, but it doesn't change him being the Protagonist. Protagonist and Antagonist are roles. Hero and villian are qualities. The protagonist is just the main character and the Antagonist his or her's opposing force. Victor is absolutely the protagonist, rather his actions were problematic or not. A protagonist doesn't have to be a hero or the hero.

IMPORTANT: The reason it looks like he flips from one girl to another is because they cut out the song that shows his reasoning, which you can find here kzread.info/dash/bejne/lpyC2M6nf6vLhdo.html victor isnt a villain, and definitely not a narcissist. he is shy and makes very bad decisions. he isnt straight forward with emily because fears making her upset and hurting her. it still was not a good decision, but does not make him a bad person. he doesn’t go back and forth in between women because he never really falls in love with emily, he only tries to marry her at the end because he thought there was no hope for victoria and that she rejected him, so he caved into marrying her, because he thought there was no hope. yes he does mislead emily, but because he was scared of her and didn’t want to marry her. he is not a narcissist, just incredibly anxious and socially awkward. as you can see he does not want to hurt emily by breaking the news to her, confirming that he does care how his actions affect others, meaning he is not a narcissist. (although it was counterproductive). his bad decisions caused a chain of events that he did not know of, so he cannot be held responsible, how could he know victoria would be in danger? while he may not be the protagonist, he is definitely not a villian. he doesn’t willingly play with the emotions of both girls. this video completely spins the movie the wrong way. he’s a nervous wreck put in a difficult situation. i wish there was more character development on victor and victoria, and that they had more chemistry. it seems like the whole movie dragged the attention away from learning about the characters.

Loved this video and I hope you’re doing better!

@TheFangirlWatches

2 жыл бұрын

I can't seem to shake this cold or this heartache that I've got - but everyday is at least 1% better, so I'm getting there, thanks! 💕

First. yessssss this a legendary topic on your channel and your vows are on point

@TheFangirlWatches

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for rushing to watch! And, I know, right? My Corpse Bride video from 2017 really exploded on this channel.

@Simplyjeaniek

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheFangirlWatches period girl

Victor was not raised rich and thus would never have been raised to believe he would one day be married off. Victoria was born into a wealthy family and knew that’s how she’d end up, of course Victor wants to marry for love, he was raised believing he’d be able to, it’s in literally the first song. The first song that establishes our characters and their family. They are referred to as a term that means “new money”, that’s a hard thing to miss that immediately throws out your issue with Victors “modern” idea of love. Arranged marriages were not common among the lower social classes, which we assume Victor was part of until very recently, besides, it's not like just because it was a common practice it meant everyone involved was happy or content to practice it, a lot of high status people still wanted to marry for love, not power. Also manipulates Emily into going back to the land of the living? Ma’am he was abducted. The man was literally kidnapped while unconscious but he’s the villain for trying to get home just be dragged back to a place where he cannot leave and for Emily to literally manipulate him? Her telling him the reasons he doesn’t like her isn’t giving Victor outs, it’s literal manipulation actual abusers use to make their victim feel bad and stay to comfort the abuser because it’s now in the abused mind that THEY are the issue and that THEY are the bad person for hurting someone else and it WORKS on Victor. Victor is not a good person, no person is purely a good person and his flip flopping decelerations of love are instances of him being not a great person but to claim him a villain? More than the actual serial killer? The serial killer that Victor had no idea could have been a serial killer? That ignores the entire movie and flaws and faults of the other characters just to pin blame on a character who by no means deserves it. Emily is just as much, if not more, a villain and antagonist than Victor. If victors inability to pick on social ques makes him a villain, Damn Emily thought he loved her after he ran away in fear of her three separate times and continues to chase after him, what is that? Remember folks! People with NPD really wish you’d stop calling vain character archetypes Narcissists :) and if you are a narcissist using that condition to describe a character, you are still part of the issue.

@thebeakeddoctor

2 жыл бұрын

I understand this comes off as mean, I apologize, but I genuinely haven’t seen a worse take about Corpse Bride that misconstrues the characters so deeply and ignores such large parts of their personalities before and then demands you watch the movie again in hopes of proving the point that an introverted character is a bad person for lacking communication skills. So I will have to disagree very hard with your theory and I hope you can look back at this a year from now and revise this, because it really could use a revision.

Love your videos! I just wish they would be a little longer I would definitely listen to you do like a full breakdown of the movie I'd watch like an hour video for sure.

Would you consider doing a theory video on what happened to Nell and William after Mayhugh dies as we never see them again like do you think they died sometime during their search for Victor as their Stagecoach no longer has a footman

I like the image Emily was Hispanic when she was alive I don't know why I think at maybe her hair her eyes her face I don't know

@aniflowers1998

2 жыл бұрын

Might be the character design in general? I'm not hispanic, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but her design does kind of give "Day of the Dead/Dia de Muertos" vibes. With the flowers on her head, beeing half sceletal and well...dead. Plus that long-ish wavy and dark-ish hair

@williamswonderland3636

2 жыл бұрын

@@aniflowers1998 I didn't even think about that but maybe that could be the thought pattern I'm not sure

Nah but the songs are GOOD 😭😭✋

My favorite song is the song from the bar

poor guy might just have anxiety

You raise a lot of good points! It would've been so much better if Victor told Emily the truth. Although, I've seen a few people say that he had more chemistry with her and he should've stayed with her. I don't entirely agree with that tho. Also, I don't really understand the Butterfly thing either

@ju_dls9458

Жыл бұрын

I saw a video made by The Theorists that explains the butterflies at the end, and I think it actually makes a lot of sense! The theory is that the ''land of the dead'' (where victor is taken by Emily, with all the other dead people) is actually a purgatory, not ''hell'' or anything like that. Like, the purgatory is where the corpses remain between life and death. They are corpses, but there's still a form of life attached to their body. And they stay there until they have completely fulfilled their unfinished business with life. What were Emily's unfinished businesses? 1) she couldn't get the marriage she was so longing for. The thing is that Victor ''married'' her, but it didn't solve her problem. By the end, she let go of this will to get married, because she realised that it was impossible. Victor was destined to Victoria, a living with a living. So she made peace with this idea that she was not supposed to get the marriage she wanted. 2) she didn't get her revenge on lord barcus, the man who killed her. The fact that he is poisoned at the end fixes this issue. Her killer is now going to have the treatment he deserves. That's a ''grief'' that she can finally let go of. These problems being now solved, Emily does not need to get back to the purgatory anymore. Her business is finished. So, she turns into butterflies and goes to (supposedly) heaven. Or, at least, she goes to a better place. And she doesn't need the body that keeps her between life and death anymore.

To be fair, Victor believes that Victoria has rejected him and decided to marry Barkis. Not a great excuse for being nice to someone, but he really thought Victoria was willingly out of the picture. You make a great point that he's not prince charming, but I don't think most of his actions will villainous, either.

Victor is a chicken. You can’t call a chicken a “villain”.

My husband actually pointed this out to me and it made me look at it completely differently.

I mean Victor was raised by domineering parents who didn't LET him make decisions. And I challenge any of you reading to meet two outwardly nice people and pick one to marry in a world where divorce is almost nonexistent in 2-3 days time. He's flip flopping because he's getting to know both women.

*Victor the accidental necromancer!*

I'm glad I'm not alone when it comes to thinking Victor wasn't the hero of the story

@TheFangirlWatches

2 жыл бұрын

You'd have to do SOMETHING to be the hero. It's like the movie just sets him on an escalator and he rises to the top with no effort, lol.

Well I think that victor is an anti-hero like shadow the hedgehog, spawn, deadpool, gru and megamind,

Hi Fangirl, may I ask you something?

Well yah Victor is not the main Character it's called Corps Bride for a reason

Oh yeah he kick starts the conflict of the movie by practicing that marriage vow thing in a GRAVEYARD 😅 I don’t know HOW I remember!😶

At least The side charter aren't that bad

You're not wrong about Victor's role in all of this and I'm mad about it, but I have to agree with some other commentators that being a villain requires malicious intent, making Barkus a villain and Victor having more of an antagonist role. That, and being too shy and introverted to confront an issue directly and therefore making is worse is a Big Mood.

I saw this movie once and came away with the exact same impression. Victor was a wimp and the whole thing could have been resolved in like 3 sentences explaining the mix up. But no, he bumbled through the whole movie like an idiot, utterly manipulating everyone he encountered.

In the original story corpse bride was based off of Victor, Victoria and Emily are actually in a poly relationship:))

Don't you just hate it when you practice your wedding vows and accidentally make a dead lady your eternal bride?

Can you do more Coraline videos

I love this film

😮😮💛🤨😧😧Makes sense on who is the true villian.

I absolutely saw this the first time I watched this movie, (wich was Halloween 2021) mainly because Victors behaves basically like my last EX! XD T^T

Emely💜💜💜💜

Corpse Bride is not a Laika movie I hope that was just a joke

@gracekim25

2 жыл бұрын

I mean I know it’s a Tim burton movie😅 not everyone is aware

@TheFangirlWatches

2 жыл бұрын

It actually was animated by Laika. I believe it was their first film.

I don't find Victor to be a villain but I do find him to be kind of a prick but overall I think the message here throughout the movie is don't rush marriages

I like this. I agree it didn't hit the same way Nightmare Before Christmas did, but it is charming watch. You do hit good points.

I'm so glad you said this!!!! I did not care for Victor.

I respectfully disagree, I don't think he is the villain, I think if he was a villain, he would want to hurt the women he was CONFLICTED Into being with, I think at first he wanted to be with Victoria but after he hears she is marrying Lord Barkis He decides that Emily is his true love because they have spent some time together. I don't think he intentionally wanted to cause any problems, I think he was in conflict with what to do. Plus I think the reason why he did what he did when he tricked Emily was that he was uncomfortable with the world of the dead and wanted to get away, but as you say he could have just explained to Emily the situation. But yeah in my conclusion he is not a villain, just I guy who made poor decisions, besides no one is perfect. Also, as a side thing, I think victor's thought process works like this. 1. I want to be with Victoria and want to get back to her 2. Victoria is marrying someone else so I should marry Emily as she is a kind person 3. Emily is free and she has given me my life back and victoria is free from Lord Barkis so I will marry Victoria. Yes I know it is not the best summary but I think it shows how different circumstances altered Victor's decision.

Yeah, this whole thing could have been avoided if he just told her the truth that it was all a misunderstanding!

@TheFangirlWatches

2 жыл бұрын

Hermit, he wasn't afraid of her after 10 minutes, so why would he do whatever she said?

Van Dort? More like Amano.

I always did hate the idea of the loser guy who drags girls along, He is never open about how he feels so they think he loves them. Ai Yori Aoshi was kind of good as he falls in love with 1 girl only but at the same time, he hurts her makes her life hell to the point of making her insane as he cannot stand up to the other girls. Fruits Basket was good with this format as she does not mess lead and hurt people for her own gain. Tenchi Muyo! to as he was open with the girls.

I love victor tho 👁💧👄💧👁

I love Corpse Bride

Emily is the protagonist, so yeah she is definitely the hero, but victor isn’t a villain, he isn’t perfect, but definitely not the villain, I think your kinda biased

I feel I just heard one of Barney's Stinson movie rants do you also believe Harry Potter and Luke Skywalker to be the villains of their stories 😂 all jokes aside this is what I feel about Edward in sense and sensibility exactly because of his spinless ways

Say um is it ever stated that Victor isn’t great in big social places?😅

Well, this was uh... Something. I see Victor, Victoria and Emily as all trapped souls. Victor is taken to the world of the dead and only the dead knew a way back to the living. If we really go dark here, how long do you think Victor could stay down, there before dying himself? To me it's like being buried alive and only a small bell was your only chance of someone hearing you. Yes, Victorian grave sites use to have that add on. He would have crawled his way out if he had the chance instead of dying there. All this just to stay alive and get back to Victoria and his parents. Who by the way only use him to get money and status from the everglots. Other than that, he seems to value a person's character albeit he is still shy and nervous to speak up for himself in the beginning of the movie. Letting his parents decide for him and making them happy. Victoria a young woman who has been a disgrace to her parents her whole life and who also show no love to each other puts Victoria into a cage. Maybe not a physical one until later but they gaslight her childhood and adulthood into submission that she can't even enjoy a piano. It's only after meeting Victor that she gets that small enjoyment sneaking her way up behind him. Putting Victor on the spot after realizing that they were alone. He's a very introverted man and that gives Victoria the chance to speak her own mind. Vote a positive gentlemen quality but he's still nervous to take the lead. With the social status hearing of Victor and Victoria's wedding rehearsal going horribly wrong from the town bell ringer that just puts even more pressure on Victor and an opportunity for Barkis to slip in and create a wedge between the two families. Of course, the two most desperate Everglots don't see the snake before them. They don't care about their daughter they only care for money and status. They really drilled that home about those two scum bags. Emily well she just gets the worst treatment but not by Victor. Barkis literally murders her in cold blood robs her and breaks her heart all in one quick attack. Had Victor NOT found her she would have been trapped in a never-ending loop of hoping her true love would find her and set her free.

I'm autistic, and perhaps I am projecting but I believe Victor may be on the spectrum

@TheFangirlWatches

2 жыл бұрын

He very well could have been, especially since it would be undiagnosable back then. I sense more of a generalized social anxiety out of him, but it is very hard to say (our interactions with Victor's behaviors are fairly limited considering he stars in the movie!).

Laika didn't do the Corpse Bride, Google's just really stupid. It's a Tim Burton movie made at 3 Mills Studios and produced by Warner Bros.

man i have the story the movie was based on and its a Jewish folk tale and my goodness I feel the folk tale was better than the corpse bride and I loved the corpse bride growing up

@CinnamonGrrlErin1

2 жыл бұрын

I remember being really interested in the Corpse Bride during production and I was hoping it would be a much closer adaptation to the original folk tale

Thank you! I could never put my finger on why Corpse Bride didn't gel with me, and you nailed it. It's so rare we get a nice authentic stop-motion movie that I don't like to pick it apart, but the flaws should be addressed. And personally, I'm not crazy about Johnny Depp in this; I would've cast someone like Hugh Grant.

@simsgirlgem

2 жыл бұрын

I’m assuming because he doesn’t seem a good fit and nothing in the media right?

@CinnamonGrrlErin1

2 жыл бұрын

@@simsgirlgem I admit I did kind of lose interest in him after Sleepy Hollow, but it is mostly his performance in the movie. I get Victor is a total milquetoast, but Depp having to pitch his voice higher than normal leaves it a little flat at the same time. He's not a bad voice actor, but I don't think he was right for this character.

@simsgirlgem

2 жыл бұрын

@@CinnamonGrrlErin1 ok that’s valid I’m just tired of people using recent events to say why Johnny shouldn’t have been cast what’s going on in real life should not factor in why someone shouldn’t have been cast

@TheFangirlWatches

2 жыл бұрын

Ooooh, Hugh Grant would have been an interesting choice! But, alas, Tim Burton likes to use the same 3-5 actors for EVERYTHING. Sweeney Todd felt like a Harry Potter reunion more than anything. I'm surprised that we had all of these bigger named actors and no one complained about the script being so flatly put together. But, I guess, animations were still deemed "kids movies" back then, so they could have bad writing and no one would mind.

@CinnamonGrrlErin1

2 жыл бұрын

@@awesomeone2979 this doesn't even crack the top 10 stop motion animated movies, it's a dull, predictable story with an unlikable protagonist. The animation isn't bad, but it's so stereotypical Burton that nothing really sticks out, except for the Underworld scenes, and this is one of the few Danny Elfman scores that I can say is pretty forgettable. If you want to see *GOOD* stop motion horror, watch anything by the Quay Brothers, "Faust" by Jan Svankmejer, or "The Hand" by Jiri Trnka. Tim Burton's been a hack for the last 25 years.

I like this movie it is fine that you don’t like this movie . I think victor is just shy .

Victor doesn't look like a "villain" ,or acted' like a "villain"

I made it to the end!😀

So, I haven't seen the movie in a while. But the way you sumariced everything, he doesn't sound like a narcisist to me. He sounds like a young dude who would love to dream (getting married for love, not money) but accepts beeing married off when the falling in love with his bought wife later on is a possibility (accepting to marrie her even though he barely knows her). Than he get's trapped in the land of the dead becouse of stupid mistakes, a place he doesn't want to be in, and manipulates the person holding him there to let him out. (While kind of mean, he has no reason to believe that explaining thing to her would give him his freedom back). When he starts to get to know the Corpse Bride better, he could see himselfe marrying her becouse once again the posibility of falling in love is present. But becouse he goes by oportunitys and possibilitys, he still feels betrayed when the first girl he could have seen himselfe get married to is about to marry someone else. (Not the most charismatic thing, but I know plenty of people who got angry at there ex-partners for them getting into new relationships, or where feeling hurt by how quickly there partner found a replacement.) He doesn't sound like a narcisist. He sounds like someone with low selfe esteme who was raised to make no decisions for himselfe and just go with the hand of cards that was handed to him. (And if my memory of his parents isn't completely off, they seem like the type of people who would raise there kid that way) Sure, he might not be the goodest beeing alive personality wise, but I wouldn't call him a narcisist or an antagonist just becouse he is indecisive and, in his young age, doesn't know a thing about love and finds himselfe atracted to two pretty women. (Hell, as far as we know, this is the FIRST type of ANY relationship he ever had! And it's directly a marriage!)

Victor Van should end up with no one in the end, Miss leading and hurting others should not = reward. It should teach the wrongs of misleading and hurting toes around you. Maybe if they show a turning point where he grows up and learns the wrongs of his actions but that does not happen. Maybe do it like kanokon where he acts the same but at the same time is clear to her about how he feels.

Here I thought it was the guy that killed her stupid me. The first half he is terrified of a zombie woman trying to marry him. The second half he lovd both women. 3rd act Both woman decided the best thing for him was to stay alive and be with her

I don’t care what none of y’all have to say. People are saying that Victor is a narcissist, and that he was using Victoria and Emily. I think that is a lot of crap, he is just so awkward and shy, and yes, Victor lying to Emily was completely wrong and uncalled for. He could’ve just been honest but overall, I think Victor is a good guy with a good heart so I’m sorry to say that I don’t believe that he is another villain in this movie/storyline. I just want to point out that I love Victor, I have a soft spot for him, and while some of his actions could be deemed wrong, I don’t think he meant any harm.

Speak for yourself. I loved The Corpse Bride as a kid, certainly much more than The Nightmare Before Christmas. Actually, that film terrified me when I was little so I totally disagree. The Corpse Bride was so much better and I don't think Victor was a villain either, when I clicked on this video I thought there was going to be some huge conspiracy on minor details hidden in the film, but if it's just people complaining about his personality that's not accurate. Yes, he's a little cowardly and he doesn't take Emily's feelings into consideration at first but a couple of things to point out are: 1) The boy has just found out that he is trapped in the land of the undead, or the inbetween or whatever you want to call it. This isn't a film were people have regular interactions with ghosts. The fact that he was kidnapped by Emily (I love her btw but she did kinda kidnap him due to her misunderstanding.) and woke up surrounded by living corpses and skeletons should be taken into account. I don't know about you, but I don't think I'd be at my best if I'd just been chased by a corpse through the woods and woken up to discover myself surrounded by the undead. In fact, I'd probably have jumped up screaming at them all to keep back, fainted, or wet myself. Maybe all three. Let's be honest, he took it very well all in all. 2) Technically, Victor is engaged to Victoria. Yes he seems to have married Emily but he did not swear his vows to her, he spoke them out loud in her unknown presence. I would not count that. His first instinct is to go to Victoria. I would argue that there is a sense of honor in that. He at least owes her an explanation which he does give, although it is a rather botched attempt at explaining the situation. How much worse would he have looked if he had just disappeared from the living realm/ world and had no concerns about Victoria? They were getting married THE NEXT DAY. Yes, he tricked Emily but remember that to him she was a dead stranger who had kidnapped him. His parents are not exactly affectionate or loving. Victoria was probably the closestthing to support he ever experienced so of course he went to her. 3) When he gets there, he doesn't try to pretend nothing is happening. He explains himself, albeit rather poorly. He is honest though. He doesn't try to go straight back to his life as normal. He understands he stuck and needs help and he tries to rectify the situation. Unfortunately, there isn't really time because Emily then takes him back to the land of the dead. 4) He is kind to Emily. Despite the terrifying situation he finds himself in he is always kind and polite to Emily. He talks with her, he tries to explain himself and when she gets upset he does his best to comfort her. When she is insecure she asks him if it is "her eye?" and he reassures her that her eye is "lovely". He's not confident or eloquent but he does try, and I don't think him being nervous or misdelivering explanations makes him a villain. I would give him credit for that. 5) When he learns that Victoria is getting married he commits to Emily. If we look back at reason number 2 once that vow is broken, (Yes, he does still love Victoria, in my opinion) he commits to Emily and you can look at this as good or bad depending on how you already view Victor. In my opinion, he does it because he has no reason to go back to the land of the living, (which is heartbreaking) and since he is sad he can't marry the person he loves, he will commit to Emily because he certainly cares about her and this way at least, Emily will be happy. Or you can look at it as Victor being manipulative and using Emily as a comfort to try and get over Victoria. I could understand that line of thinking but I do believe that Victor feels genuine affection for Emily by this point. In conclusion, I think Victor is a sweet guy. He is nervous and bumbling but that adds to his charm in my opinion. I love his polite and reserved nature and I think that, he genuinely is a better protagonist because he sometimes messes up. It makes him more interesting and realisitic than a clean cut guy like superman, and his naive, well meaning nature makes him more lovable than a anti hero like the dark knight or wolverine. Obviously, this is just my opinion, I don't mean to upset anyone who disagrees, I love to argue my point on things but I don't consider anyone who believes anything else as worth less, and you might have picked up on something in the movie that actually proves me wrong :). All in all, I love this movie and all it's characters, I'd love to hear any thoughts people have, whether you agree or disagree. Have a good day! :) - Sophy

We need to save her, because she is going to get married off to the serial killer.

💕

Um Fangirl😅 it’s a Tim burton movie😶

I like emily because we have the same name

OMG I think I dated a victor! this made me realise he was a narc 👰🏻‍♀️ I’m free!!!! *turns into butterflies 🦋 🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🖤🙏🏼 Xxx