My problem with Barkskin is that it only gives value from regular hits if you get hit multiple times in that 2 second window. The first hit has 0% damage reduction. That 100 damage overhead still does 100 damage. If you're solid at dodging, blocking and pushing, you'll likely only be getting hit less frequently than that, although there are some occasions where damage comes in big spikes, like getting partially cornered by a horde and some elites, but odds are poor for you in that situation regardless of your Amulet Trait. Barkskin helps greatly with poison gas, fire, and warpfire, and also allows you to trigger the 40% DR from barkskin without needing to eat a hit first. Friendly Fire can also trigger it, and FF is generally lower than damage you'd take from a rat. Barkskin also undoubtedly is better at keeping you still standing in a truly "oh shit" 100 to zero hp situation. That being said, assuming you're taking small amounts of chip damage that keeps it ticking, Natural Bond is worth a free potion (80 hp) every 6 minutes and 40 seconds. Even assuming you're only healing half the time, an average map is about 20-25 minutes, which is worth between 120 and 150 health in healing. If you get near full value of the healing from taking regular chip damage, in a 20-25 minute map that's worth 240-300 hp, or 3-4 potions worth. The downside is very negligible too, as all it takes is someone else to use bandages on you, and nearly everyone playing Legend+ knows how Natural Bond works. Even if you're in a clutch situation, you can still self heal, resetting any downs, and giving yourself a massive chunk of temp health. Additionally, one person using Heal Share can similarly negate the downsides. For Barkskin to give the same effective healing value, you would need to take 300-375 damage EXTRA per map in the 2 second windows after taking totally unmitigated damage from the chip damage you'd likely normally take, since the first hit isn't mitigated at all. Again, if you typically only eat a single hit every minute or two, and prioritize not sitting in poison, fire, or warpfire, you'll likely get more value out of Natural Bond. Personally I run Natural Bond pretty regularly, and find it actually enforces and rewards safer smarter play (you can't afford to get 100 to zeroed). That being said, obviously Barkskin is powerful in certain situations that Natural Bond isn't, and Barkskin does help when you're forced to fight in hazards, or if you're more prone to get hit rarely but when you do you take 2-3 butt pokes in a row. I think it ultimately comes down more to playstyle, as you alluded to in your video. I disagree on noobs not using Natural Bond though, as it's kind of risk / reward, and trains you to be more careful about taking damage willy-nilly. Noobs should try out a variety of things, and find out what they enjoy playing with, then use that.

@WetMagic

4 жыл бұрын

A very well thought out argument and I thank you for it. You make good sense and I actually agree with most of this. Natural bond definitely has its place, but it takes a certain type of person who knows what they're doing of course as with anything else. I basically don't recommend it to newer players until they get a feel for the game. Meaning they need to learn to stay with the group, learn enemy motions, basically how to not run off and die every time as many people do. Nat bond in my opinion is more difficult to run with than say barkskin so I look at it like ok they are graduating from vermintide 101 and then they should try out nb or whatever else they would like to. I appreciate the opportunity for discussion though.

@Orudaiken

3 жыл бұрын

Six months late to the party but I totally agree with your math. FF will happen, sometimes it’s just a beam staff shotgun blast, others it’s a BH crit. Other “unpreventable” damage will occur. That one toothpick rat, the 4 shots from a gun rat, a tick of poison, etc. It adds up quick. That healing will easily be worth half of a potion by the time you come across the next one, freeing your team to have more healing chances, especially if one player is running heal share. Barkskin is good in one situation: giving your team more time to come to your rescue after you down. It has one halfway defensible case of when you get ambushed by a disabler and would take a very large amount of damage in a short window. However nat bond will keep you safer after the fact, and if you were injured, before as well. Boon is just better than barkskin if you can generate THP reliably.

I personally think having natural bond on the iron breaker is really good. You don't often take damage if you're playing with him, because of the gromril armour passive(Plus you already have a passive defense bonus that's good on it's own). Frees up healing items for other players. As a general rule of thumb though. If you're thinking about running natural bond, you have to ask yourself: Do I get downed a lot when I run legend? Like at least once or twice every match. If the answer is yes, then natural bond is not for you. Take barksin or boon of shallya. If you the answer is: No. Then natural bond is a pretty good talent to have.

@WetMagic

4 жыл бұрын

Definitely a fair point. Ironbreaker is one of the best classes, so honestly he can probably run anything. That being said I personally like barkskin for him because it just makes him freakin immortal, especially as a bot. I can see where you're coming from though. The thing about natural bond for me on a lot of classes is just like what's the point you know? I can have 80 health for a while and heal normally or I can have natural bond and regen when I don't need to. If there was far less healing throughout the maps I think natural bond would have more value to me.

@IOwnCows

4 жыл бұрын

@@WetMagic Eh. I guess, you know, different people like different things. Whatever works best for the individual. I find it useful in legend pugs. Always feels like my teammates need the extra meds that I wont be using. lol. I will say though. I see a lot of people running natural bond that should probably just stick with barkskin. lol

@WetMagic

4 жыл бұрын

@@IOwnCows I hear that. I think there's a certain freedom or independence with nat bond that people crave. Not all can pull it off of course. In the end as long as you're not going down constantly then what you're doing is probably working haha.

Just completed all act 1 missions on solo legendary difficulty yesterday and it’s partly because of you ! Your videos helped me a lot to improve my gameplay. Keep doing useful content like that, much love and a big thanks to you man !

@WetMagic

4 жыл бұрын

Congrats man! Solo can get insanely hard really quick so that's awesome to hear. Definitely expect more to come.

I like to run natural bond on waystalker because i play from range and don't get hit much, and as long as i don't get downed i don't depend on heals at all, which allows me to leave them to that random quickplay teammate that always needs them for some reason

@WetMagic

4 жыл бұрын

Yea and that would be how to play with natural bond for sure. You just have to be a bit more conservative which I don't think many people quite grasp.

Interesting topic, the way I see it is best used for Deeds with No pickups. PS. It seems the sound is really low volume, I can barely hear you. Thanks for the videos!

@WetMagic

4 жыл бұрын

Yea I try to eliminate background noise best I can. If you turn it up a good amount it should be fine.

Hey bro, cheers for making this video

@WetMagic

4 жыл бұрын

I appreciate it man. Expect more to come!

@TheIronKingLTD

4 жыл бұрын

Wet Magic ill make sure not to use it

I like how this video tries to make a case for Natural Bond, yet it shows pretty good why the trait is worse than some people think. Yes, on the first glance you see that green bar go up through the whole video and you may think "wow, look at all that healing I'm getting". However if you look at the HP bar in this video, then you will notice that NB only really healed from 5:45 until 7:12. The whole rest of the video would have been the same amount of HP with or without NB, just in a different color composition. Now, I am not saying NB is 100% useless and I also want to say that the "u get grey health from items" part, doesn't really bother me, like it does a lot of other people. It may even have a place in Chaos Wastes, where you get to take that green HP into the next map. Your class may struggle to farm THP, so NB might actually do some healing, however I would argue that Boon would solve that Problem better. But other than that I struggle to imagine a situation, why you would take it over Barkskin or Boon. I certainly disagree with the statement, that it is a trait for players who "know what they are doing", because those players (as seen in this video), have not only the ability to farm enough THP, so NB does not matter, but also fast enough pacing, so that their THP doesn't fall off naturally.

Yeah I agree. I still like it on IB. Also pyro when playing with thp on ult, constently trading hp for overcharge.

I'd personally say Barkskin is a bad choice untill you get into legend or cata because it's super rare to ever get hit more than once every 2 seconds unless you're specifically being disabled. And fair is fair, if you get disabled alot that's a fantastic choice for you. But if you're just a new player, and get disabled and released at an average rate, Boon of Shallya is gonna serve you far better because you can take that damage, and then you can build a cushion of THP much faster to tank the next hit, which likely isn't gonna come in just 2 seconds. So for the vast majority of the game, Barkskin just does nothing for you, and the problem is that if you get hit twice quickly often enough to justify barkskin, I don't think Barkskin is gonna help ya. You probably need to find out what gets you into that situation so often, and figure out how to avoid it, or how to block them effectively.

Only class I use it on is Waystalker. Boon with hp increase makes the tick a tiny bit noticeable no healing pots needed really

what is the setting to make the dark part of the map lighter? i hate going into those caves and not being able to see anything!

@WetMagic

4 жыл бұрын

Atmospheric lighting I believe. Turn it from high to low and it helps a little bit.

i run hunstman NB, staggering temp health source of shield and sword/mace are good.

If you play a deed with no pickups it helps a lot,not if you play zealot of course:)

@WetMagic

4 жыл бұрын

Yea I can see that.

NB and barkskin are the exact opposite. Barkskin is only useful for bursts/ticks of damage and completely useless against a single hit every few seconds. Typical scenarios would be gas/rating/hook/assassin, so best to take it on classes that have no way of dealing with these, such as WHC or IB. NB is best to get into combat with as high HP as possible without having to rely on heals and best for playstyles where you only get hit once in a while, so it's best on classes that run especially high risk of getting hit and need to go into combat with as high HP as possible, such as WS.

for me personally barkskin is almost entirely useless. im very good at blocking dodging and pushing and almost never get hit twice in a row, if i do it's because i've allowed myself to be pinned accidentally and no necklace will save me. i personally run boon mostly because of that sexy thp boost but often i dont even need that because i typically use high thp gain weapons so NB is quite decent for me, and i find it very good for bots if nothing else cause they're dumb as hell

Good video idea, though it kind of seems like you didn't want say what's wrong with natural bond, only that most people who are experienced don't use it. Might I suggest writing your arguments a bit ahead of time?

@WetMagic

4 жыл бұрын

I think I made all the necessary points. No damage reduction plus only healing in temp health. I also talked about classes that it would work well with. I didn't say that most experienced people don't use it, just that a lot of inexperienced people do use it.

@kronosDking

4 жыл бұрын

@@WetMagic I understand, perhaps it's only me, I just came out feeling like I'm not sure what it was that I just listened to. This doesn't detract from the fact that I really appreciate the content you're making :)

@WetMagic

4 жыл бұрын

@@kronosDking No worries. I appreciate questions about my videos. I'll do my best to refine it a bit for the next one.

TLDR: Natural Bond is dogshit. XD