One of the reason to put motor outside of the wheel is to reduce the unsprung mass which affects the motorbike handling significantly. None a word on how heavy the hollow motor is in this bike, but even if they use compisites it still could be 15kg+. Plus you'll need to have a good seal to protect that hollow motor huge bearing from getting dirt and water inside because that bearing itself will cost $$$$ to replace. Looks cool though.

@eelcohoogendoorn8044

4 ай бұрын

This; those bearings will suck in every respect and honestly its bs to say this is function over form. Cost, weight, rigidity... none of it really adds up.

@Y2Kvids

4 ай бұрын

Looks like It's sprung, tyre floats on the bearings and the motor that is attached to the side arm? 🤔

@spankeyfish

4 ай бұрын

@@Y2Kvids There's a wheel which is pretty much just the rim and a flange to mount it to the motor rotor. The motor stator is attached to the swingarm.

@streddaz

4 ай бұрын

@@Y2Kvids everything from the swing arm pivot rearward is unsprung weight. So, swing arm, motor and wheel are all considered unsprung weight.

@Y2Kvids

4 ай бұрын

Weight savings on Axle/spokes , chain,sprocket , centre hub Vs added motor, copper, carbon fibre rim, bearings, cooling fins .

This reminds me of the early computers in the '80s. Imagine where we'll be in ten or twenty years.

@dodgygoose3054

4 ай бұрын

100% we gave reached the pinnacle of combustion engines, now we'er at the beginning of lightning-machines.

@ahole5388

4 ай бұрын

ya volt the sky's the limit

@ahole5388

4 ай бұрын

gettin there

@markmeridian3360

4 ай бұрын

All batteries under development that are projected to have more capacity per weight are also much more expensive. Since batteries use expensive and rare materials, it's not a given that their price will come down.

@dodgygoose3054

4 ай бұрын

FYI, battery costs have been reported to have dropped by 40% this past month.@@markmeridian3360

TRON is here. I am finally seeing the future now

@DanTheRoofer

3 ай бұрын

They said they have a Patten on the motor. It was well known in GTA5 Tron bike. What a crook.

For future videos in this format, please ask if they use NACS for charging. Potential customers need to know if the vehicle is relevant, and manufacturers need the guidance if they've made a mistake.

@MunroLive

4 ай бұрын

They are.

Well done Marco, kudos.

Love the concept of the back wheel. This is how all motorcycles will be built in future. It makes so much sense.

@Cloxxki

4 ай бұрын

Does the tyre come off easily is the rim just coming with a motor?

@Tomzuki.

4 ай бұрын

@@Cloxxki They have a video on their channel showing how the rear tire is removed. The tire comes off with the rim, the motor stays connected to the swingarm, the tire is replaced like any other rim

@ZesPak

3 ай бұрын

Depends. He spins the story wrt packaging for handling. But unsprung weight is often very detrimental as well. So it's still a trade off.

This is the future technology for motorbikes we were waiting for ! Waiting to test one of those !

@markplott4820

4 ай бұрын

Still no Two Front Wheels w/ Articulating Parallelogram suspension. see - Gillera Fuoco 500. and I was hoping for DUAL motors & ADAS.

@daniele_go

4 ай бұрын

@@markplott4820 3 wheels are OK for a scooter, here it is a real motorbike.... I agree on DUAL motors, one in front and one in the rear.

@ScottEdy

4 ай бұрын

Dual motor?.. wtf? Seen the UBCO?

@daniele_go

4 ай бұрын

@@ScottEdy UBCO is an utility bike with 2 motors, great idea, but the look is ridiculous for me.... The Verge is a real motorbike, not comparable to the UBCO

@zakaria2664

4 ай бұрын

For $50k! you got to be kidding me!

Back in the day I'd be lusting to put that on a frame table to inspect and adjust the frame dimensional accuracy head to tail. Now I'd just like to mount and go! Such an awesome machine.

Ive run Zero DSR, SRF for 4 years, good machines and air cooled. This looks good but Im concerned unsprung weight / water ingress / debris ingress on peripheral motor drive seal. Agree bike 360 vision is a good idea, survival is ride defensively, the more eyes/brains the better.

Better test drive this one, on rough roads and sharp turns. Competition and dirt bikes do not reduce every gram of unsprung weight for no reason. Motors in the wheels are a massive amount of unsprung weight.

@eubikedude

4 ай бұрын

The BMW GS says hello. 😜😂

@Tomzuki.

4 ай бұрын

Well this is neither a competition nor a dirt bike, so I see no issue with added unsprung weight. The bike is heavy to begin with, so on track it's not going to be as nimble as a sport bike.

@gwarlow

4 ай бұрын

This doesn’t look like a trail bike, looks urban/highway to me.

@SkyRiver1

4 ай бұрын

@@gwarlow Matters less, but still matters greatly in handling.

@SkyRiver1

4 ай бұрын

@@Tomzuki. Since YOuTube will not allow a link to an outside source that would explain to you the fundamentals of moto suspension here is what Chat GPT has to say on the matter. Low unsprung mass is crucial in motorcycles used on the street for several reasons: Improved Handling and Responsiveness: Unsprung mass refers to the weight of components not supported by the suspension system, such as wheels, tires, and part of the motorcycle's suspension. Reducing unsprung mass enhances the motorcycle's ability to respond quickly to changes in the road surface. This results in improved handling, better maneuverability, and increased responsiveness, especially during cornering and quick direction changes. Enhanced Suspension Performance: A lower unsprung mass allows the suspension system to react more efficiently to bumps, irregularities, and other road imperfections. The suspension can follow the contours of the road more accurately, providing a smoother and more controlled ride. This is particularly important for street motorcycles where comfort and stability are essential. Increased Traction: Lower unsprung mass contributes to better tire contact with the road surface. Improved traction is essential for safe street riding, especially during acceleration, braking, and cornering. With reduced unsprung mass, the tires can maintain better contact with the road, leading to enhanced grip and stability. Reduced Vibrations and Fatigue: Motorcycles with lower unsprung mass tend to experience fewer vibrations transmitted from the road to the rider. This not only enhances comfort but also reduces rider fatigue during long rides. The overall smoothness of the ride contributes to a more enjoyable and less tiring experience for street riders. Braking Performance: Low unsprung mass is beneficial for braking performance. The reduced weight in the unsprung components allows the braking system to work more effectively, resulting in quicker and more controlled stops. This is crucial for street motorcycles where sudden stops may be necessary in traffic or emergency situations. Fuel Efficiency: While the impact on fuel efficiency may be relatively small, reducing unsprung mass can contribute to overall energy efficiency. Lighter components require less energy to move, and this can result in slightly improved fuel economy. In summary, low unsprung mass in street motorcycles enhances handling, responsiveness, traction, and overall ride quality. These factors are vital for a positive riding experience, safety, and performance on the diverse road conditions encountered in everyday street riding.

Hienoa😊. Suomi rules! Hyvä veto Marko.

Was an owner of a hub motor motorcycle, absolutely awful to ride as the weight in the wheel would come crashing up if you hit a bump, and this was after I tuned the damping rates of the suspension. From my experience, hub motors are a terrible idea for those who want a comfortable and safe ride. By the way, I own a 2022 Zero SR now and it's amazing.

@greenwave819

3 ай бұрын

Optimal is front hub/rear hub and a mid drive, and then do everything you can to mount the battery as low as possible

Love those leather pants!😊

@richardkule9384

4 ай бұрын

Best feature of the video.

@--SPQR--

4 ай бұрын

Dude kept rambling on about a motorcycle. What motorcycle?

Wow, bloody brilliant!!! Well done!!

Amazing looks, engineering and a well thought out suite of safety features for the rider. A great product.

The three high voltage Orange wires that are hanging out look cheap and not esthetically pleasing to the eye. Seems like they could have made an amazing cover for those. Boots getting rubbed against that and other things like someone wanting to chop them out for metal might be an issue.

I need one of these motorcycles, a Cybertruck, a 2nd generation roadster and a Tesla robot to clean and wax all these machines in my garage. … now where did I put my winning lottery ticket?

@SkyRiver1

4 ай бұрын

A winning lottery ticket will do you zero good on the cybertruck. Get in line.

Nice review, but need some essentials: weight, price, top speed?

@SkyRiver1

4 ай бұрын

. . . total of unsprung weight because of hub motor shortcut.

@Pehz63

4 ай бұрын

3:00 they show some of the specs. 233 mi range, 124 mph top speed, 2.5s 0-60. Not sure about price and weight.

Mother of all brake disks on the rear... How much is the unsprung mass on the rear?

@SkyRiver1

4 ай бұрын

Same thing that ruins the Aptera. Performance enthusiasts have been reducing unsprung weight for a reason. There is reason that people pay huge amounts to have carbon fiber wheels and lite unsprung components. You would think that Monroe would mention this factor in Aptera and this bike. Can you imagine dragging an unsprung motor in a dirt bike were the handling is paramount?

@craigfreeman9280

4 ай бұрын

Yeah this bike would be awful to ride on a road with some washboard cement pavement. I bet it would really be squirrelly in the handling department.

TRON here we are at last.....! What a spanking gorgeous machine. My Last bike was a CB900 four. I thought I was riding a starship at the time. This is truly next level.

More Motorcycles!

An electric kick stand that picks the bike up on a stand would be awesome. That's the part where many people think there stand is down or planted and they start letting the bike tilt and the stand folds back up.

@hefeibao

4 ай бұрын

ooooo....good idea!

@greenwave819

3 ай бұрын

a normal kick is fine

Wow, What an awesoome and forward thinking design.. Love it... Get someone to road test it in Scotland in the Outer Hebrides and or Shetland... and see if it survivs the winter... But loads of respect guys for suc a wow design!

I want one, but not at 45,000 dollars, I can get a Tesla for that.

Price, milage and specs are impressive .

@kalasmournrex1470

4 ай бұрын

124 mph top speed kind of sucks though. I routinely go faster than that on my ZX-10R. Unless a cop is reading this. Then, I always obey the speed limit.

The price will come down. This is a very progressive design!

@markplott4820

4 ай бұрын

I, Dont see that EVER happening.

@rjbiker66

4 ай бұрын

Why will the price come down? Who wants these things?

I want to see Sandi test ride it. He knows everything

Cheers guys

Worth every cent.

Proud to be finnish when I see things like that!

As an ICE’d lifer I’m not sure how I got here but, and I hate to admit it, I’m impressed.

@--SPQR--

4 ай бұрын

Smart man

Looks like a Naked Street Bike. Great technology. Advanced concept. Can't wait to ride this Next-generation EV Machine. 😊

@shazam6274

4 ай бұрын

Got $50k?

@H4N5O1O

4 ай бұрын

but much much heavier

Looks great! If they can get decent range this thing could be a viable super naked alternative

@Miata822

4 ай бұрын

There are some amazing electric motorcycles already out there today. I got one of the first Zero SR/F bikes (140 lf-ft!!!) four years ago. Today Energica sells fantastic 2-wheeled EVs, and I know there are others. That wheel-motor looks cool, but it is all unsprung weight.

@streddaz

4 ай бұрын

Motorcycles are very difficult to get good range with at highway speeds due to poor aero, mainly due to the big hunk of meat that sits on them.

@diskreet

4 ай бұрын

@@Miata822 well said. Right now I have ICE motorcycles (and a Motocompacto) but eventually I want an EV bike that's fun. Not sure when they are right for me, but I'm sure I'll have one some day soon

@H4N5O1O

4 ай бұрын

i fck8n doubt it. these type of vehicles are not needed in the future.

@elbowsout6301

4 ай бұрын

@@streddaz highways suck on motorcycles anyway. I do what I can to avoid them, always choose the old 2 lane over a superslab, unless I have no choice. It's not about getting from A-B it's about the ride.

iv been telling them for ages to add a road rash resistant cover for those HV cables so no one's electrocuted in an acident.

Want. Being able to have a turn camera on like the Tesla, greatly removing the need to do a head check so you can keep your vision forward, is a huge win. Unsure how comfy that seat will be after an hour or two in the saddle, but otherwise seems a winner. Less moving parts = happy owner.

Thats very neat. I hope soon the volume can drive the cost down. All wheel drive is now easily possible.

Looks great

Amazing bike!

The future is looking fun 😊

Looks Great and congrats on this prototype! I do have questions though: #1. Parts and service. The age old questions that actually make something viable. #2. If that motor really has 200hp, that swingarm looks very under engineered. #3. Agree that the motor is in a great place for many reasons, but it's right in the water and grime! Not convinced it will hold up very long..

Better weight management, simpler, more torque, lower voltage requirement & less magnetic flux. Far more effective application of technology. Only improvement I can think of is a quick-change battery system. Beautiful engineering!

This is mind blowing!

Yes please plus a winning lottery ticket.☺

The future motorcycle is here today!

How do you change rear tire?

For those wondering about handling characteristics, just look at the wheelbase of the bike and it will give you a good idea. This won't handle like a naked/sportbike, but like a cruiser. Regarding the 885 pounds-feet of torque the electric motor has, to give context, it is common for *fast* ICE bikes to have over 1200lb*ft of torque in first gear at the wheel.

@JasonWW2000

4 ай бұрын

I'm going to have to disagree with you that looking at the wheelbase tells you how it's going to handle. There are many other factors involved that determine how something handles.

@paulblair898

4 ай бұрын

@@JasonWW2000 I'm making the assumption that the designer is competent and they have optimized rake, trail and center of gravity. Even the Diavel has poor handing compared to all the sportbikes with ~6 inches less wheelbase; the giant 240 section rear of the Ducati doesn't do it's handling any favors either I suppose.

@greenwave819

3 ай бұрын

fast ICE cars get stomped by the Tesla plaids E-torque is real

I am planning on building a bike with pretty much the same concept in mind. Reduce the amount of moving parts, and keep the weight low. I have a 1979 Kawasaki that I am converting to EV, I will build the roughly 20kwh pack and it will fit where the engine and trans used to sit. As far as the motor, I am not 100% sure where that will go just yet, most likely a rear hub motor, but I want longevity and maybe a mid drive will be best, I'm not sure yet.

@rjbiker66

4 ай бұрын

How much will a 20kwh battery weigh?

@lewischime5737

4 ай бұрын

​@@rjbiker66your not going to do better than 100kg

How do you change the rear tire / remove rim from bike?

@streddaz

4 ай бұрын

Do you mean remove the wheel? Not just the tyre? With every motorcycle you need to remove the wheel to change the tyre.

Afternoon guys

Charging speed and interface? I briefly saw 25 minutes for charging, but in what context?

@BremboT

4 ай бұрын

I didn't even see that. 10-80% or 0-100? NACS, J1-AC or CCS? Lots of unanswered questions. Not sure if they edited those questions out for another video, or just bad journalism.

time for a teardown

What is the impact of water on the propulsion system?

Wow!

I want to know about the pack voltage, what type of motor is it using, Ac or Dc? Battery capacity in volts and amp hours, miles per kwh used, overall range that can be expected, this is all useful information to have when considering a bike.

@johngalt97

4 ай бұрын

Its neither AC or DC. Its electronically commutated 3-pole.

Unsprung weight at the end of the swing arm?

Show me production plans and i might think about it in the future.

Any regen braking?

When are they going to make it 2 wheel drive?

like 3 years ago this was on presale for 25k eur, which was far too expensive for me. now basically the same bike is above 50k. nuts. great optics and hopefully great tech, though. wish them all the best.

@bababababa

4 ай бұрын

not the same bike - this is with 6 cameras, dual displays, and so on

@D.i.n.i.c.h.t.h.y.s

4 ай бұрын

@@bababababa ok, almost the same bike. some expensive cameras and additional screen... still, hope this type of bikes get rolling!

Heat rejection in competitive driving will be interesting. Heat and heat cycles matter a lot with tyres, and the motor is now the rim. Evolutions might have fans in the rear hubs spinning actively or passively to get rid of as much heat. There at least is a lot of surface area to the inside. Liquid to air cooled? A thin outer layer of silver (the real Ag) coating might assist.

@concinnus

4 ай бұрын

The rear rim is carbon (even though the front wheel looks aluminum), likely because of heat. Also, adding a layer of more conductive metal doesn't help.

Nice ,Wana ride

Imagine the first day you lay that down when parking or such. Every rider has done it. Make it stand up by itself and I'll be impressed. Electric kick stand to park the bike would be awesome.

@neilfromclearwaterfl81

4 ай бұрын

Suppose there are more Aron Von Zippers out there than I thought. Haven't in almost 50 years of riding dropped a bike from forgetting to put the stand down while parking it or moving it around the garage. How smart would the system have to be to be able to reliably determine for every rider when they did or didn't want the stand to automatically deploy? Just unnecessary weight, complexity and cost along with another expensive item to repair when it breaks. Best!

@djemcee

4 ай бұрын

@@neilfromclearwaterfl81 every rider in my riding group of about 46 people have thought they put the kick stand all the way down and when getting off the bike had the bike tip over. Sometimes more gently than other times. Getting some larger bikes on the center stand is much harder. I have a bigger bike and the center stand parking is very hard. I don’t mean automatically like it should know when to deploy, I mean automatically when you push a button it will deploy.

@neilfromclearwaterfl81

4 ай бұрын

@@djemcee I am so sorry to hear that. Perhaps you younger folks have gotten too distracted as that is a very, very rare thing in my circle of older riders many of whom walk with canes yet still can get a touring bike on the center stand. Often issues getting the bike on a center stand can occur due to putting lower profile tires on the bike or from certain attempts at lowering it making it so the center stand is now too tall and you have to overcome a larger center of moment to get it over the top. Best!

@djemcee

4 ай бұрын

@@neilfromclearwaterfl81 strange response

Unsprung weight of the rear wheel?

That's a cool motorcycle

Is it NACS charging or is it CCS, or slow J1 AC charging?

I’m concerned that it is not water cooled. How do you keep the battery at the right temperature if you leave the bike sitting in the hot sun for a few hours?

How would you get that rear tire serviced though? Doesn’t look like anything just any bike shop would be be able to do.. is there a special tire machine you would need or special tools to actually do service? Tires don’t last forever so just curious to find out if their new design fits into current infrastructure

@Tomzuki.

4 ай бұрын

They have a video on their channel showing how the rear tire is removed. The tire comes off with the rim, the motor stays connected to the swingarm, the tire is replaced like on any other rim

@Luc_c_90

4 ай бұрын

@@Tomzuki. nice! Ty for the reply

2:20 No cooling at all? No inverter cooling, no motor cooling.....then I'm afraid it wouldn't hold up for me at work when I need to push +20kWh/100km for an urgent delivery/pickup.

Verge motorcycle!! 🖤

Don't forget to breath Mate. Nice Bike

Nice Bike

they should levetate the wheel around the hub with a maglev-like setup where the hub is suspended within a magnetic field. so you use rotating magnetic pulse to move it forward or backwards

That "traditional architecture" that he derides is called "mass centralization" and "low unsprung weight" by those who know and understand vehicle dynamics.

@muzzarobbo

4 ай бұрын

yeah i agree although no one is buying this type of bike for pure mechanical grip and manoeuvrability. I think it makes sense for this kind of bike as it will be very quiet and looks cool! also unsprung weight in terms of suspension performance is very related to the ratio between sprung and unsprung which then influences the ride frequencies. this bike will probably be around 300kg i imagine.

@Miata822

4 ай бұрын

@@muzzarobbo Yes, certain people will pay extra just for goofy Look-At-ME!!! vehicles (see: Cybertruck)

@mikkojuhani7704

4 ай бұрын

The weight of the bike was 200 and something, below 300 anyways@@muzzarobbo

You should have explained more of the motor and drivetrain

@copaloadofthis

4 ай бұрын

A lot more..

This is what you call better engineering, that's nothing but butter baby. I want to ride this so bad.

Lovely design, I can't afford it any time soon, but I have an idea for the front, suspension why not try center hub staring? It already has a nice rear , give the next model a great front 🙏 please

did i miss the price? would change the design also a bit.

Minimum capacity is 175mi or 90km for the civillized @ nominal speed of 80mph. That is from 90% charge to 25% charge. That is my baseline standard for an average bike. Long distance riders will be more demanding.

Sadly all I can pay attention to is the audio clipping on Marko's voice. I know it's difficult in a loud conference space, but a bit more effort on guest vocals would be nice. Rob's levels seem to be perfect. Could just be limitations in the recording equipment they are using.

How do they keep the thing cool? How do you do the temperature management for a high performance Lithium battery which gets parked in the hot sun on a 105 degree summer day? How does that work without active cooling with a heat pump? How does the inverter and motor survive? Sounds strange to me.

‘Nother over-the-top high end tech-laden and performance bijou for th’ others ! The first to put out a daily rider for “everyone else in da world” ( ~ 25 kW, 75 Nm, 250 km…ish) range with “normal” tech for under $5k will rule 2WheelWorld.

Looks great ... BUT if fitted with solid state batteries available (Apparently) soon ... how much - lighter , feaster charging, and range increase ?????

I'm thinking it'd be best to put a question mark at the end of, "The Future of Electric motorcycling." Seems to be tens of thousands of dollars more expensive than competitors without clear positive differentiation.

My feeling is that motorcyclists don't want an iPhone/Tesla on two wheels, but I guess these guys have done their research and know better.

@hefeibao

4 ай бұрын

People said that about Teslas in the day and they are selling millions of cars. I think to each their own. Many bikes today don't appeal to me either, but they sell so :shrug:

I love the hub design. I have a zero DS and know that one day that rubber belt is gonna give on the trail

@elbowsout6301

4 ай бұрын

Swap it to a chain :)

@carperdiem8754

4 ай бұрын

@@elbowsout6301 i will eventually, but I do alot of riding in sand so kinda want to see how belt holds up

I was hoping for Central motor w/ Front & Rear half shafts .

Genius

Interesting....

I want one.

tesla plaid trq: 0,380 kw/kg verge ts ultra trq: 0,612 kw/kg amazing torque

The Best of the Best and People Don’t Even Know It 👀 This is A Masterpiece of Technology on Two Wheels, we all paid 45.000 for way less this technology needs to go into a car design 👀🙏🏾✊🏾👏🏾🧐🤔 Hub less wheel is the motor 👀 what 👀 My whole family is getting one and talk these guys into designing a car

How many kW on a Level 2 charger?

Where do they sell this? Who rides one?

The wheel hub rim motor is amazing next gen tech but don't damage it else you get a huge repair bill.

Check out Indian startup Ultraviolet's f77. I like that one better...$5000... This one is close to $45000 😮

Not a serious contender, that rear wheel looks cool but has anyone heard of the concept of unsprung weight ?!!?

They've said that they're going to start production for three years now.

Good inspiration from Tesla!

The cameras and radars could enable AEB which they must be planning

NACS compatible?

@mikkojuhani7704

4 ай бұрын

yes