For a second I thought Armin was a Jordan but super sized 😂Both are buff looking dudes

@PyroManiacbwl

Ай бұрын

i did the same thing. then he started talking lol

@MultiVfc

Ай бұрын

yeah lol

@ralanham76

Ай бұрын

They could joke around and call each other “ twins”

@DominicZaidan

Ай бұрын

my first thought was, is that his bigger brother?

@thesadboxman

Ай бұрын

@@ralanham76 [twin spider-man meme]

Glad to see other Munro team members showing their expertise in these tear downs.

@Gr0gansm1th

Ай бұрын

They are experts in “reverse engineering” LMFAO!!

@tv-ld3wv

Ай бұрын

​@@Gr0gansm1th You're underestimating reverse engineering?

As much as I like Tesla and the Cybertruck- I have to point out that the 2 ribbon cables which provide steering input commands to the rack and pinion motors does not qualify as redundant, much less "double redundant" Both ribbon cables share a single connector which means the connector becomes a single point of failure that impacts both systems. This concerns me as it would not qualify in an industrial application as "redundant" much less when applied to a "people mover" application.

@coreyw427

Ай бұрын

Thought the exact same thing. There also seemed to be an implication the steering motors were powered by that ribbon cable, which is clearly not the case. Also, no doubt the front module just communicates with the steering motors/sensors using can bus. Also find it intriguing that a massive connector almost the size of a human hand is apparently a marvel compared to a simple, compact and cheap 4 pin connector which would otherwise be used (12v, gnd, can high, can low).

@theflew

Ай бұрын

Agreed, redundant would be two separate cables taking separate paths to separate ports.

@cengeb

Ай бұрын

Sandi pretends to be all knowing, expert on all subjects, that's the worst kind, pretend to know, blow smoke, hope the check clears. Another fake, phony fraud...And he doesn't understand what vertically integrated means either. He claims Tesla is, tesla is far from it. What a tool.

@marcink5820

Ай бұрын

@@coreyw427 this cable is not the purpose described in the video, and You are right with CanBus. Actually, the motors are driven by it.

@ElySky95

19 күн бұрын

Looks like there is two cables for redundancy.

lock-to-lock is closer to 340 degrees. From centered to max turn is about 160-170 degrees.

@1flash3571

Ай бұрын

You REALLY need to get your eyes checked. LOOK AT the video again. IT IS NOT 340 degrees. It is more like under 300 degrees, maybe 280 degrees is more like it. 360 is the full circle.

@ccc822007

Ай бұрын

​@1flash3571 he is correct 170 degrees.

@felixweinreich3999

Ай бұрын

@@1flash3571 he is correct - there are pictures of the CT screen showing +/-160-170deg steering wheel angle for lock 32deg at the front wheels. So 320-340deg lock to lock depending on the ratio provided (by nature of the system it can be changed to even less SWA required)

@1flash3571

Ай бұрын

@@felixweinreich3999 Soooo, when SM did the ACTUAL TURN, that is FAKED???????? WTH you talking about????? I saw what I saw, and he turned it from left to right to the MAX and it wasn't 320 degrees.

@felixweinreich3999

Ай бұрын

​@@1flash3571 SbW is variable gear ratio! You could also do plus minus 10deg lock to lock if you want to... but actually cybertruck on the road has standstill lock to lock around 320-340deg!!! Will be different when you change the vehicle speed (even more indirect ratio) Cybertruck shows the data on the screen with steering gear rack travel, steering wheel angle and road wheel angles...

I can honestly say I didn't think this was going to happen but I'm taking delivery of my cyber truck before Sandy finishes the teardown.

@kentonian

Ай бұрын

And it’ll be rusty before he finishes it 😂

@user-xj5xp6qz5g

Ай бұрын

​@@kentonian wow you are really out of touching that one

@LewdCustomer

Ай бұрын

@@kentonian Cybertrucks don't rust. Try to keep up.

@TurdFergusen

Ай бұрын

@@kentonianand youll still be a tard

@linuxmill

Ай бұрын

me, too, I hope.

Wait, so the redundancy on the cabling is done with cables that are TOUCHING each other? So if some physical damage occurred to one wire will very likely affect the other wire set that is TOUCHING it? Crazy.

@markplott4820

Ай бұрын

Truck is Stainless Steel , NOTHING can penetrate.

@rkan2

Ай бұрын

​@@markplott4820Penetrate? Wires don't need to be penetrated with external stuff to get cut... Besides, most of Cybetruck is built from anything but stainless steel.

@Shadow0fd3ath24

Ай бұрын

@@markplott4820 only the outside...far away from these wires that can easily wear on other things...ive seen wires that are rubber coated in rubber clamps still wear through fully and short

@stunnerdoc

Ай бұрын

whoa keyboard engineer! don't jump to conclusions..

@nicolastattini8801

Ай бұрын

@@stunnerdoc true

I just LOVE this truck. (Why do they have to look like all the others!) I just want one, period!

Jordan had a growth spurt! Haha. Great video guys!

@MunroLive

Ай бұрын

Thanks for watching!

@richardkule9384

Ай бұрын

Roids.

@lemongavine

Ай бұрын

At least a foot taller

@mrh3085

Ай бұрын

@@richardkule9384no. KISS boots. 😅

3 cheers to Sandy and his crew for yet another so nice explanation.

@etiennebaree6176

Ай бұрын

really ??? :-)

Great video, very educational. It's all about the tech! Thanks guys.

@MunroLive

Ай бұрын

Thanks for watching!

@billybobbob3003

Ай бұрын

@@MunroLive this isnt a true 48 volt architecture another tear down company on autoline daily proved it. plus the honda prelude back in the 80s had rear wheel steering lol nothing new and steer by wire isnt required or nessasary for a vehicle. this truck would be alot better if it was a hybrid so it could actually tow 500 miles unlike false advertisement from 2019. this truck is a gimmick period obsolete and outdated.

@DavidJohnson-tv2nn

Ай бұрын

Redundant and sometimes triple redundant on everything.... Except power! No mention of a redundant 48 volt power supply.

@tomz1364

Ай бұрын

@@DavidJohnson-tv2nn you sound like an expert. What redundancy would you expect to see?

@DavidJohnson-tv2nn

Ай бұрын

@@tomz1364 I'm not an expert. But... On something as critical as steer by wire, I would like to see end to end redundancy, including power. That means a backup battery separate from the 48 volt battery and separate from the car's main battery. In a different location in the vehicle. These systems should be completely failsafe. At least before I would ever consider buying one. Also... I would hope that if there is a failure, the computer doesn't allow someone to continue driving the car. 50 to 100 miles to get home and it should shut down until the problem is corrected. Again, not an expert, just my opinion on the subject.

Thank you for bringing that to us. Surrealism defined.

Monroe team member is chomping at the bit to say more. Sandy is looking as fantastic as ever, but these young bucks are eager. Bless you both. This isn't an easy transition....car included.

Isnt it better to make the cable separate? What if something happens that the cable is damaged. If they are so close together they can be both damaged

@davidanalyst671

Ай бұрын

I have been begging for a wiring episode. I would assume elon wouldn't want it because everyone is kinda trying to catch up to elon, but yeah, we all got questions. they could separate the cables, so it runs on either side of the battery, so one gets damaged, it uses the other....

@howardconger3699

Ай бұрын

And both cables connect to the same point, a little corrosion there takes both out. Not really a triple redundant system.

@GntlTch

Ай бұрын

And what happens if you lose power? Either through battery failure, accidental/intentional power off or connection failure. Is there any sort of mechanical steering wheel lock on Teslas as there are when legacy ignition keys are removed?

@christopherhale580

Ай бұрын

@@GntlTchNope. Check Out of Spec reviews… they tested and answered your question.

@user-ij5uz5dm5j

Ай бұрын

A rat would chew both cables ar once

One of my favorite things to do in my Cybertruck is u-turns. Especially when I have someone with me who drives trucks.

@logitech4873

Ай бұрын

A regular Toyota Hilux has a shorter turning radius though, so I doubt they'd be impressed.

@Walkop

Ай бұрын

@@logitech4873 A Hilux is a much smaller truck. Like, MUCH.

@FrickYourHandle

Ай бұрын

Until your accelerator pedal sticks and ur doing doughnuts at 120 mph. Good luck champ

@qui11

Ай бұрын

@@FrickYourHandle hater gonna hate

@USMC6169

Ай бұрын

@@logitech4873turning radius? Wheelbase of Hilux?

Also, Armin has been working out, holy smokes!!!

@mrm1885

Ай бұрын

I think he must be a distant relative of Arnold Schwarzenegger or something. He's got the accent and everything :)

Grats @TeslRebuilders, happy that you’re getting something you’re so excited about. People hating on Tesla cause it’s en vogue while ignoring the content of the videos they post on really need to re-evaluate their priorities in life. Constructive criticism is one thing but being an ass just for the sake of it or trying to make people feel bad for what they choose to do with their money is such a waste of energy, go focus it on something constructive.

Confused by REDUNDANCY terminology. Also had same issue with the Boeing computers description I have seen elsewhere. For instance you showed what seemed to be a twin cabled lead and called it double redundant. Is this a difference between American English/Math and English English/Maths? In English English a double cable would simply be called a (single) redundancy. A double redundancy (two redundancies) would be three cables. Likewise "triple redundant" system would be four systems. Or did I not see/hear all the redundants being described?

@brianb-p6586

Ай бұрын

No, it's not a region difference, it's just poor understanding of the terminology.

@johnpublicprofile6261

Ай бұрын

@@brianb-p6586 As in my poor understanding or various engineers on KZread? My UK 1980's training (and since) was very definite that a single redundancy consists of two systems, and so on.

@brianb-p6586

Ай бұрын

@@johnpublicprofile6261 I was referring to Sandy's poor understanding of terminology.

@Thegrimmechanic

Ай бұрын

Not quite sure where this claim of triple redundancy is coming from. There's either some complete ignorance of the meaning of "redundancy" at Munro's shop, ot there's some clever marketing (lies) coming through back channels from Tesla to Munro.

It’s more ZF steer by wire, than Tesla. They build these systems for years. Don’t understand the hype. The problem is not steer by wire, which is old technology, but need for a backup steering system outside the US.

@phillyphil1513

Ай бұрын

re: "Don’t understand the hype." A: well Ego and regardless of where the Stock is at...? the "scam" of the Jordan Belfort Pump And Dump must continue unabated.

@bullshitbingo2259

Ай бұрын

It's all ZF and third party suppliers, Tesla couldn't do shit without those innovative giants.

@geirmyrvagnes8718

Ай бұрын

You don't understand the hype.

Just awesome presentation. Keep it up Sandy. We're counting on you!!!

More essential info , any driver should be interested in ! Good work Sandy , I live for this .

In 1988 a friend bought a Honda Prelude with 4 wheel steering. Not steer-by-wire, but that thing was fun to drive. Thanks for the descriptions and views of the beast's steering.

@DoingthingswithDAN

Ай бұрын

Do you remember if that year prelude has the long steering driveshaft to a separate rack in the rear? I know they started using electronic rear steering on the preludes but can't remember which year

@JamesWoodTN

Ай бұрын

@@DoingthingswithDAN That I don't know. It was a new 1988 .

@ShaunRF

Ай бұрын

@@DoingthingswithDAN Electronic 4ws didn't come until the 4th gen Prelude.

@DoingthingswithDAN

Ай бұрын

@@ShaunRF ah that's right the ugliest of the preludes

It looks like center to lock is a bit less than 180 degrees. Therefore lock to lock is about 330-340 degrees, not “less than 180”

Really enjoying these CyberTruck tear downs. Nice

Very nice that the logo of ZF (Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen) from Germany is on the case. This confirms, once again, how self-confident ZF is, that they are able to enforce their logo there at Tesla. This also shows that Tesla simply uses the innovations of Tier 1 suppliers for many components.

@cengeb

Ай бұрын

And proving Sandi is all confused when he keeps using the term "vertically integrated"....tesla is far from it. they are an assembler like all others, that get parts from thousands of OEM suppliers. sandi is so confused, so many times. He thinks if he pretends to know stuff, and keeps the same lies, like a politician, it becomes the truth. Wake up, 70's porn mustache

excellent in depth overview. thanks

@MunroLive

Ай бұрын

Thank you!

Armin is what Jordan Arocha would look like if you put him in the Captain America machine!

@Sal3600

Ай бұрын

Lmaooo

Planes have fly by wire systems, they also have legally mandated service schedules, detailed log books, controlled operating conditions and highly trained pilots who are legally obliged to report any deviations from the flight envelope. Redundancy is only useful if the failure of the primary systems are apparent to the operator, if one cable fails the system degrades. Putting two cables in parallel doesn’t suffice and can make things worse, if one cable gets mangled and shorts it may disrupt the second.

That little lift is pretty neat seeing the safety latch automatically engage when it isn't moving.

Hey Sandy their is a little Easter egg for you when you open up the steering feed back actuator and look at the PCB.

Sandy and Armin Rock!

Thanks! Difficult topic, feel like I'm starting to get it, much appreciated

Any OEM that isn't paying Munro for their teardown analysis will be the first to go bust. BZ to SM and his team for educating the masses. Well done folks from all of us in Canada. I cant wait to take delivery of mine. Cheers

@rozonoemi9374

Ай бұрын

Tesla don't supply vehicle to Munro. Munro buy the vehicle & sell the reports to pay for the vehicle.

@Chris-ji4iu

Ай бұрын

I think Sandy remarked on this a few years ago. Only the Koreans and Japanese were paying him for the analysis (that or the USA OEMs were paying but not making any of the recommended changes). He said that Tesla was the only OEM that implemented all of the recommended changes (or maybe most? ...I think he was talking about the Model 3 ...my brain is a little slow this morning lol). It is very hard to make changes for domestic (USA) OEMs especially if the changes eliminate a union job. (I lived in NE Ohio and had relatives working for Delphi & Lordstown in management and on the line ...crazy stories!)

@boredKiwi

Ай бұрын

Electric steering has under development by OEMs for over 2 decades. I’m not seeing much unique here, only the 48V power.

@rozonoemi9374

Ай бұрын

@@boredKiwi Yes, you said it. In development in last 2 decades & still under development. What a winner!

@torben777

Ай бұрын

Do you really think the OEMs do not themselves buy and look at cars from competitors.

Impressive tech - thanks for the tour guys. Couple thoughts come to mind on truly redundant systems - I would want those ribbons routed differently through the vehicle structure vs side by side, and I certainly wouldn’t want them terminating in a common connector. It would be interesting to know if that conversation happened during the design phase - especially on the common terminal and if someone pulled up data to say the chance of failure at that point was so small it wasn’t remotely worth designing two different interface points.

@gruppefbc

Ай бұрын

My thoughts too - using a common connector means the redundancy isn't there. Additionally, in both tear-downs I've seen, there seems to be only a single sensor at the end of the steering shaft measuring the driver input, so if that's correct that's a huge gap in the system's overall redundancy,

@christophercullen5256

Ай бұрын

It's a single pair that allows bidirection ethernet data transfer. The cables are flat to allow better routing. The other motor will have an independent pair. The tie breaker will have another independent pair. Command signal is triple redundant, drive motors are dual with a fail safe design. ^guessing

@gruppefbc

Ай бұрын

@@christophercullen5256 They only mention the one pair of ethernet cables. Seems like there's some redundancy, but it only extends as far as the steering motors and sensors on the rack, not on the cabling / connectors or steering input sensor reading driver inputs. I'd love to have clarity on this, but thus far it seems and looks only partly redundant.

@christophercullen5256

Ай бұрын

@gruppefbc I think Sandy got caught out talking electrical stuff. Where is the steering wheel, where are the front drive units (close), why is that ethernet cable several meters long with a single connector? I think it's for the back wheels.

@gruppefbc

Ай бұрын

​@@christophercullen5256 That's certainly a very plausible theory of the cabling being for the rear motor. Still leaves questions unanswered though, especially the key one of if there is any redundancy on the steering wheel input sensor. If there's only one sensor, that's a huge failing of a key safety aspect of the system.

Great video. Thanks.

Great show/ report - Thanks

The gearbox shown at 8:18 is clearly a worm gear driving a wheel which is on the pinion shaft. There might be planetary reduction as well, I suppose.

@geirmyrvagnes8718

Ай бұрын

That is what it looked like to me, too.

@felixweinreich3999

Ай бұрын

100% - no planetary drive required for the ratio between motor and rack. That is a worm drive connecting motor output shaft (worm) and pinion (connected to worm wheel).

Does anyone know what car wash mode does? I've heard of cybertrucks bring bricked by going through a car wash without this mode on? And the warranty being voided if you go through car wash without it being on or washing the truck in the sun.

Great job!! I love watching these tear downs.. I do tool design 4 slide machines so they are very interesting!! Keep them rolling!! Thx 🇺🇸✌️

Thanks for video!

@MunroLive

Ай бұрын

You're very welcome!

@ MunroLive how can "steering by wire" be TRIPLE redundant, if we could smash/disconnect SINGLE Ethernet-loop connector.. hmmm ?

At first I thought they shrunk Sandy

@salted-anchovy

Ай бұрын

Brilliant! 😂

Thank You ...once more!

Great series!! 👏👏😍😍

In control engineering, the arrangement is called 2oo3 ( 2 out of 3majority voting ) system....not triple redunandant. Triplr Redundant to a SINGLE control unit is adequate to guarantee an acceptable level of safety such that any fault will automaticallly force the car to go into a safe state to protect the car and its occupants from an accident.

@Thegrimmechanic

Ай бұрын

My guess is that the third sensor is not for safety or redundancy. Odds are that ZF/Tesla went with two servomotors on the front steering rack in order to provide enough steering power to steer this giant tire/wheel combo in certain off road environments. Anyone that's ever worked on a dedicated offroad racing truck would understand this. I believe the third sensor is for power management between the two servomotors since they have to run synchronously all the time. This is not a design for redundancy.

@marcink5820

Ай бұрын

@@Thegrimmechanic that is nonsense. If they would do as You say, they would just make one longer motor for bigger torque.

@Thegrimmechanic

Ай бұрын

@@marcink5820 It is not nonsense, it's commonplace to design this way for many reasons. One reason is for space constraints. there may be a 'packaging' issue that requires the use of two smaller motors rather than one big one. Look at how aircraft are designed. The other reason is inline with the patent (but I'm guessing you never read it) to make the obsurd claim of redundundancy.

About Sandy's last ppoint/ sentence, El on just reminded us in the Earnings Report, "Tesla is a Technology Co."🤔..😆

Armin can do this All Day 🛡️⭐😅

That’s such an amazing technology

I would say the steering system has redundancy with parity check vs it being triple redundant.

Looks like the Car Wizard is moonlighting at Munro and disassembling the Cybertruck!

@williamboyle8918

Ай бұрын

Weeeezard

Does anyone else want to see Armin and Jordan standing next to each other, or is that just me?

@farmerpete6274

Ай бұрын

What about Sandy and Armin: is Sandy short and Armin tall? Or is Sandy normal and Armin a giant?

Can you guys measure any response delay? Probably just the flex of the rubber, but the sound of the sand under the tyres definitely is delayed a little.

Sandy was right; the next software update will increase the steering angle of the rear wheels. Yes, ZF is developing the Steer by Wire system for the CT together with Tesla. Tesla works with many hidden champions in Germany, but of course, you know which Tier 1 and Tier 2 suppliers Tesla has.

@alanmay7929

Ай бұрын

crap!!!! didnt tesla made the steering angle up to 10 degrees+ from factory!? why didnt tesla made the locking diff also available?! those are just lame excuses! the very old chevy quadrasteer had a significantly much bigger rear steer angle from factory.

@alanmay7929

Ай бұрын

ZF is the worlds largest automotive supplier and makes parts for literaly all manufacturers, rear wheel steering is also been in development with all manufacturers too! mercedes and other manufacturers have much bigger trucks that offers up to 3 or 4 steering axles.

@markplott4820

Ай бұрын

Tesla had bought RIVERA tool & die , and GROMAN Engineering many years ago.

@cengeb

Ай бұрын

@@alanmay7929 Bosch is the largest, whilst ZF is big, Bosch is bigger

@alanmay7929

Ай бұрын

@@cengeb zf is both

Is it really wise physically running the 2 redundant data cables attached together? A physical event that damaged/severed one cable would likely damage/sever the other since they are attached. The cables should be separated and run down different sides of the front chassis for safety. Just seems crazy to me for a system that’s supposed to be redundant for safety.

@otm646

Ай бұрын

If you've had an impact so severe that those cables are seriously damaged, that would have completely destroyed the steering shaft in any other vehicle.

@fredbloggs5902

Ай бұрын

They aren’t attached, they do run independently, Sandi holding them together is not the same 🙄

@Weezedog

Ай бұрын

@@fredbloggs5902 There’s only a single connector on each end of the cables, they do appear to be attached/run together.

@fredbloggs5902

Ай бұрын

@@Weezedog Now go lookup the published wiring loom of the Tesla 48V system, you can clearly see everything is duplicated.

@Weezedog

Ай бұрын

@@otm646 honestly we don’t have an idea exactly where/how the cables are run through the chassis so no idea how susceptible the cables are to pinch/crush/rubbing damage.

AWESOME

I like the video/audio of the guys doing their work. The “reaction video” thing of you all taking apart the different major, minor and sub assemblies would be neat along with the usual videos where you discuss what you learn after studying the goodies. Just a different kind of content maybe? Anyway, love the way you all are having a blast with the CT. Mine is coming in about a year or so lol I expect there to be a few significant improvements vs this tear down victim.

My 1994 Stealth RT/TT has active all wheel steering and it's 30 years old. Porsche 928, BMW 850, and even some Honda Preludes all had it in the 90s.

@drive-channel1834

Ай бұрын

Thanks for your information

@1flash3571

Ай бұрын

Were they steer by wire, or all mechanical?

@MegaWilderness

Ай бұрын

@@1flash3571 Makes no difference if it works

@JBoman32768

Ай бұрын

Yep they called out the other types of 4w steering in the video. Hydrolic, mechanical etc.

@erkkavilhunen7852

Ай бұрын

928 is passive system where wheels move to direction providing understeer. There is one extra rubber joint in lower control arm. When brake is applied wheel turns inwards instead of outwards as in usual suspension arm. There is no rack or any other extra control mechanism in it. Prelude, 850 etc. were more sophisticated systems back then.

That etherloop wire+connector looks interesting. First of all, the cable is not twisted pair like we're used to seeing with Ethernet.That seems important, since twisted pair and differential signalling is the way ethernet builds resistance to interference. I would love to know how this system was made resistant to interference, or if Tesla perhaps found that twisted pairs are not needed and differential signalling works just fine over this flatcable design. It would be helpful to know how this cable is routed in the actual car. Second of all, I would be interested to know how many contact points are present on the connectors.

Hey guys, I'm glad you're impressed with this technology... I was hoping you might want to examine the ability, if Tesla has allowed, to convert to right hand drive fur us down under!!

Sounds like the 2 mic audio tracks weren’t synced in the edit hence the echo/reverb when they both talk and both tracks need to be unmuted for those sections

Great work guys!! Thanks for everything!

@MunroLive

Ай бұрын

Thanks for watching!

Can someone explain what the purpose of the redundant ethernet cables is when they share the same connector? I would think you'd want redundant connections as well. What am I missing?

@markplott4820

Ай бұрын

PARTS Reduction. the BEST part is no Part.

@bobhope3940

Ай бұрын

​@@markplott4820 @sphigel1 it's because they have two sets of pins in the same connector. Connector probably ridiculously robust. Really impressive engineering, both design and DFM.

@felixweinreich3999

Ай бұрын

I can - it is BULLSHIT. That connector connects front zonal module and rear zonal controller to RWS INSIDE the vehicle. The flat ribbon cable and this connector are NOT designed for environmental conditions in the "engine bay". You can see the male connectors on the SbW rack actuators (split into BIG power and communication seperate). Each one - no way that blue one is connected to the SbW system directly! I also highly doubt it is 100% ethernet. And redundancy terminology is also mixed up in the whole video. The power is coming from a different wiring to the power packs (each probably >1kW, you don't run >20A @ 48V on that tiny ribbon cable!). And then they get the steering commands from another gateway/ethernet switch connecting feedback actuator (driver steering wheel) and the SbW gear.

@cengeb

Ай бұрын

It's MUSH engineering, and Sandi is clueless. He's always knowing more, just ask him. and he has been impressed by a matchstick, if it had "Tesla" on the box

@markplott4820

Ай бұрын

@@cengeb - SANDY knows MORE about TESLA , than he is Disclosing. MUNRO makes Business of SELLING Teardown reports & vehicle COSTING. I bought a $5 (FULL) Report from MUNRO on the BMW i3, I was thinking of making a Affordable city car , at the time. If I were Stranded w/ just a Matchstick in a Foreign Country , I would make it back , with $1 Million in my pockets. DONT underestimate what Match can do.

Sure wonder how that would function driving on ice or snow, or a mixture. Please test it on ice, since where it used to be snow, it is now ice. Keep it up Munro!

Sandy Wishing you a quick recovery for your hand :)

Another ZF symbol under the encoder casting at 9:01

@bullshitbingo2259

Ай бұрын

It's all ZF, or other major suppliers, Tesla would never be able to develop those things on their own.

Smile for the camera 😃

Wow this is the automotive technology of the future. Very exciting. Also sounds expensive😮

Is there only one steering input sensor??? If so, this system has zero redundancy.

@UmbraWeiss

Ай бұрын

All of it is bs , this will get a massive recall the moment the first one broke and made a massive accident.

Next level engineering. Nothing but minor tweaks from lessons learned for the Gen 2. Incredible design.

@Aztasu

Ай бұрын

lol, no

Pleased to see Tesla cooperating with ZF

Today featuring a bigger Jordan!!!

So the Tie Breaker sensor would be polled and if it was significantly out of synch you would get an error code to have the car serviced soon, but if one of the main actuator position sensors failed, then I wonder if it would disable that actuator and then rely on the 2 remaining position sensors in a limp mode to get the car to a service. Or perhaps the 2 good sensors could operate both actuators and operate more normally with the error code. Triple redundancy is pretty cool.

@genephipps6421

Ай бұрын

I think it is actually just continuous. By that I mean every input is polled in real time--probably more than 100 times per second--and whichever two sensors are closer to agreement for that particular polling event are assumed to be correct. If there is a repeating discrepancy by the same sensor where it is the odd man out over some preset time span, then the system will flag it as defective and signal a fault that needs attention.

@kazedcat

Ай бұрын

I suspect that each sensor module actually has two sensors so that if a sensor fails it can be detected and ignored. This is how SpaceX designed their triple redundant system.

@danharold3087

Ай бұрын

Unless this system is a poor design the sensors and actuators as independent. They're packaged together for convenience. What happens when a sensor fails is up to the software. I can tell you what I think makes sense. Read all 3 sensors all the time. If any sensor disagrees or fails to respond we still have enough information to drive the truck but should a 2nd fail we don't. That could be very bad news so the truck needs service. *An error code alone would be a bad idea.* What the software allows the driver to do is up to Tesla. If it were an airplane we could continue to fly with 2 and even 1 sensor. With the car one has to allow the car to safely stop. We don't want people driving around with less than 3 good sensors but we don't want to endanger them by forcing their hand at an 'inconvenient' moment. There are both engineering and legal issues here.

@pilotavery

Ай бұрын

That sensor is actually a plastic box containing two completely independent sensors with two independent circuits. Which means that the two sensors are actually quadruple redundant. This way they can look at each pair independently and when one is in agreement and another one is also in agreement but slightly different they can measure that there is a slight difference but if it fails in a way where one of the four sensors is significantly off It can ignore it and make an assumption about which one is bad. There's a lot more information you can get.

@arthurmoore9488

Ай бұрын

Unfortunately, in the software world we see different design considerations that people mistake for triple redundancy. Rather these big clusters can operate on three systems, but is not triply redundant. Instead it supports up to hundreds of systems, but locks when there are just two. That's because the chosen failure mode is different because people don't die if the server goes offline.

Standing next to Sandy this guy lives on an entirely different planet

Cheers 👍💪✌

I saw a Cybertruck at their King of Prussia mall showroom. Loved it. Finally had one pass me on the road in my Model 3. Was that you Mr. Kelce? Damn it is huge. I felt like I was driving underground .

@cengeb

Ай бұрын

Heads Will Roll Amidst a chaotic month for Tesla - even by its continuously plunging standards - Facebook cofounder and multi-billionaire Dustin Moskovitz has made some pretty dire predictions for the automaker, accusing it of committing "consumer fraud on a massive scale." "This is Enron now, folks," Moskovitz wrote on Threads, referring to the corporation that went bankrupt in 2001 after it was exposed for one of the biggest accounting frauds in history. "It may keep going, but people are going to jail at the end." His concerns stem from a graph Tesla shared to mark a key milestone: one billion miles driven using Full Self-Driving, the company's highly fraught advanced driver assist system. He then compares it with a new graph released during Tesla's latest earnings call - an event that came with its own eyebrow raising moments. The point of the side-by-side is this: according to Moskovitz, the automaker is wrongly recognizing its deferred revenue - revenue for a product that hasn't been delivered, like an annual subscription fee - as earned revenue through the wider release of its Autopark feature last month. This is a sketchy move, Moskovitz claims, because an earlier version of Autopark was already released with FSD years ago, resulting in inflated numbers. "The data is presented in fraudulent ways, and it doesn't say what they claim it says even when they make it up," he wrote.

All I can say it I picked my CyberTruck up Tuesday and it is awesome!

@cengeb

Ай бұрын

give it time, it will have issues, major issues. What's it like to be a test guinea pig?

@maxmaxie1328

Ай бұрын

​@@cengebwhy you speaking with hand rubbing.

FMEA on that must’ve been fun!

"The car goes out and drives directly into my parking spot. I have no clue how it knew that." Meanwhile, Tesla's official statement is that auto-park should never be used in public spaces.

million dollar question: How is the 48v power supply redundancy / backup handled and where? A total loss of 48v power is going to be a problem! Does the rack still have mechanical self centering, ie is the motor drive ratio and motor friction/cogging low enough for the castor angle to push the wheels back to centre in the case of a complete loss of 48v power, or can the vehicle use brake bias to steer in extremis?

@davidanalyst671

Ай бұрын

you aren't the first person to think of that. Maybe go watch more tesla vids. Tesla has two electrical systems in each car. The main battery winds down, and it slows you down. Eventually, when the battery is 1% it doesn't let you go faster than 1 mph. Then it shuts off. You still have lights and steering powered by the backup battery system.

@maxtorque2277

Ай бұрын

@@davidanalyst671 no. i'm not talking about a HV traction battery discharge or failure, i'm talking about redunancy on the 48V battery and asscosicated electrical distrubution system. I'm sure the SBW meets ISO 26262, i just would like to understand how that is achieved with respect to the 48v power architecture. I'd immagine it is furnished through very careful fusing and discretisation of dual feed paths,using both the 48v storage battery and the HV-LV DCDC to provide seperate and non-cascadable redundancy!

@markplott4820

Ай бұрын

seems , you haven't EVER driven a TESLA . total FAILURE is Exceptionally RARE.

This explanation was way convoluted I feel. My try: 1. The complete turning radius of the steering wheel is 200 to about 240 degrees. 2. at slower speeds small motions of the steering wheel result in big motions of the wheels. 3. at high speeds bigger motions of the steering wheel lead to smaller motions of the wheels. =)

@Zeesneakyninja

Ай бұрын

Sandy’s videos are for semi informed people in the automotive industry. It’s going to sound complex and dragged out. For a lot of us we like to see and hear all the details, not just the basic information that’s been said by everyone.

@alanmay7929

Ай бұрын

nothing special actually!

@brianb-p6586

Ай бұрын

@@Zeesneakyninja No, it's just incoherent. It's neither succinct nor detailed.

How about a bit of grease in those rusty wheel holes. Great! Thanks!

Yes, the rear unit is almost certainly belt drive - it appears to be ZF's standard _AKC Central_

@felixweinreich3999

Ай бұрын

Nope! AKC looks different. This is Schaeffler RWS with planetary roller gear (belt connection to motor)

@felixweinreich3999

Ай бұрын

interesting - my link to the Schaeffler press release has been deleted... just google "Schaffler Rear Wheel Steering Cybertruck" - should be the "world premiere" link

@brianb-p6586

Ай бұрын

@@felixweinreich3999 they're generally similar, and neither matches what we're seeing in the Cybertruck in every detail, but it does look like the Schaeffler RWS. They're both belt-drive. It's hard to imagine getting steering components from two different suppliers, but it can be done.

@felixweinreich3999

Ай бұрын

@@brianb-p6586 I can see the Schaeffler position sensor design in another video ;-) Trust me it is Schaeffler and not ZF RWS - I've seen both in real life, CAD and also driven them

Monro is a national treasure. Thank you for educating the masses on the innovations of Tesla and all EVs.

Despite the description at 4:29, four wheel steering is not new. Active 4WS still isn't common, but it has been around for many years.

Being able to adjust the steering ratio sounds like a dream. There are plenty of times I wish my truck had a quicker ratio but I'd have to somehow find a steering rack that fits my truck and is quicker, so basically it ain't happening.

Well presented just one question what type of 48 volt back up systems are used for the steer by wire system in a power supply failure (no power no steering ) I know that Toyota Lexus has a lithium emergency back up battery

My 1st truck didn't even have power steering and it worked excellent.

@b4804514

Ай бұрын

Yes and it polluted causing global warming and bad air quality

@MegaWilderness

Ай бұрын

And didn't cost as much to purchase or maintain nor weigh as much

@fredbloggs5902

Ай бұрын

And? It probably didn’t have airbags, anti-lock braking or seatbelts either 🙄

@MegaWilderness

Ай бұрын

@@fredbloggs5902 And death rates are no different

@tesla_tap

Ай бұрын

@@MegaWilderness - Well, the dead don't complain about the lack of safety systems!

Airplanes have redundancy on all crucial systems, but Cybertruck doesn't have redundancy on power for example. So if power fails, you will lose steering. There's a reason why other brands still have mechanical backup on drive by wire systems. Also the amount of electronic overhead on this system leads me to believe it's not as cheap or as light as its mechanical counterpart. As far as boats, we've seen what happens when they lose power, they collide into bridges because they lose steering, for example.

@supergeek02468

24 күн бұрын

There is a little redundancy in the front and rear steering wheels. If the front went out you could very slowly navigate the car. Probably enough to get it off to the side of the road. That is assuming it failed in the center 😅

@ElySky95

19 күн бұрын

As you can see in the video it has two motors on the steering rack, it would make sense that each motor would have it's independent steering sensors and separate power supplies for redundancy. Also it looks like Lexus steer by wire didn't have mechanical failsafe, anyways these are road cars not airplanes, the safety requirements have nothing in common. Maybe not an advantage in weight but clearly makes driving more interesting and easy.

Seems I often hear Sandy and Armin, say a part is forged aluminum, when in fact it's probably just cast aluminum. Forged parts are more expensive to produce and for the parts shown, a forged part is probably not needed when a cast piece does the job at a lower cost.

@Thegrimmechanic

Ай бұрын

I'm callin BS on this one. I've run into this mis-assumption many times in the past. Forging in many circumstances can be a lot cheaper than casting. especialy for an aluminum part. I know this for a fact. The steering components (tie rod?) does appear to be forged. And the part they point out as being forged would be very cheap to produce as a forging.

All rear-wheel-steering is steer by wire.

@brianb-p6586

Ай бұрын

All current rear-wheel-steering is likely steer-by-wire, but there have been mechanical systems.

Could you do a tensile test on the door? I really want to see how strong their custom alloy is. I'm still betting 1'690 MPa of tensile strength and 25% elongation at break, that would make it one of the toughest steel alloys ever made.

@alanmay7929

Ай бұрын

toughest steel aloy ever made?! are you high on something?!

@johntheux9238

Ай бұрын

@@alanmay7929 Stainless steel is known for being tough, that's why it gets so hot during machining. Besides you can tell at the sharp angles with no orange peel that's it is very ductile for an alloy with this level of strength.

@alanmay7929

Ай бұрын

@@johntheux9238 lol!!!!!!!!!!! keep that lie with you!

@brendanmeyler1641

Ай бұрын

@@alanmay7929 this guy knows more than you. You’re making a fool of yourself.

@alanmay7929

Ай бұрын

@@brendanmeyler1641 yeah "Einstein" lol!! he knows literaly everything wow.....

Agree, big vehicles should have rear steer.

❤ what a wonderfull truck. Picture shows pneumatic suspension. Won’t it be possible to make it electromagnetic so damping motion of the wheels generats electric power?

I enjoy John mcElroys Competitor vids of this too, but I will ALWAYS watch Sandy Munro.

Here's a question: would the Steer-by-wire system be able to perform what amounts to "dynamic wheel alignment"? I would think that the CyberTruck could perform micro-adjustments to the wheel alignment as the vehicle is moving to minimize rolling resistance. Maybe this has been mentioned at some point but I have not seen or heard anything about it.

@danharold3087

Ай бұрын

Not sure what you mean. The only parameter a steer by wire system could change is toe in. And for that it would need a split rack which doubles the number of motors and sensors a much more complex design. Or am I in left field.

@fredbloggs5902

Ай бұрын

No. You can clearly see the steering rack geometry is pretty standard with the usual way of adjusting alignment manually with a spanner. Both motors work together to drive the same rack. There are 2 for redundancy/safety in case one fails.

@thomasruwart1722

Ай бұрын

@@danharold3087 - it was just a thought, apparently not a terribly good one, but in my defense I had not had my morning coffee so I blame caffeine deprivation. Thanks for your comment!

@thomasruwart1722

Ай бұрын

@@fredbloggs5902 - Understood. Thanks for that clarification. As I mentioned to the other commentor, I believe caffeine deprivation led to my wayward thought. Cheers!

@phillyphil1513

Ай бұрын

Q: Here's a question: would the Steer-by-wire system be able to perform what amounts to "dynamic wheel alignment"? A: no, well not at least with this system in the way it's currently configured, but that IS an interesting thought you have as it would simply have to be configured in the way Porsche ALREADY does it with the Rear Wheel Steering option available on the 911... that is to say, the current generation 992 (by virtue of being a rear engine mated to a transaxle) is forced to implement the use of Rear Steer by way of 2 separate actuators (1 placed at each wheel) that are not connected as would normally be with a standard EPS rack, therein technically they are able to move INDEPENDENTLY of one another for optimal geometry (think: Ackerman Steering)... to that end your idea of Dynamic Wheel Alignment DOES in fact exist at least in prototype form, yeah the mighty VW Group just debuted it 3 months ago iirc on a Lamborghini Huracan and it's called called AWC (Active Wheel Carrier). that's right, sorry Tesla but you lose again, unfortunately your CEO's Ego is simply not big enough to overcome the DEFICIT Tesla has to an OEM like VW who actively participate in Motorsports and Racing. again i repeat: "Anytime you win Leman 19X since 1970 (mind you someone hadn't even born yet) you learn things that the laymen and pretenders DO NOT..." (my voice) kzread.info/dash/bejne/Zn-WtadrlLaeXZc.html

when wrecked cybertrucks start to show up, sim racing community would be in joy for steering assembly. it would be a great base for sim racing.

@Y2Kvids

Ай бұрын

Or they could make a sim wheel.

My biggest question: Is the toe in angle controlled by strictly mechanical connections? Or is there a dynamic adjustment to the toe-in depending on what the rear steering is doing?

@geirmyrvagnes8718

Ай бұрын

Strictly mechanical. The difference is how the pinions are driven. The rack is the same.

The Ethernet connector reminds me of a larger SATA connector that exists for storage (hard drives) devices in PCs for years. Also has a visible split power / data section.

@ryandoyle4344

Ай бұрын

IDE 😊

@mrm1885

Ай бұрын

SATA cable is for next update in a few years. Now it's IDE :)

@davidanalyst671

Ай бұрын

Its a good thing too, because if you have a hard drive from 40 years ago, it will plug right into your cybertruck!!!! lolz

Have we worked out what happens with the steering if the vehicle no longer has power? Will I still be able to steer the wheels to safely manoeuvre the vehicle off harms way? I think this type of situation is more likely to happen than having triple redundancies for system failures.

@kazedcat

Ай бұрын

You have a main battery and an auxiliary battery. If the main battery fails then the vehicle has no motive power but the auxiliary battery can still drive the steering system. If Aux fails then the main battery can provide power. If both fail then regenerative braking can provide emergency power.

@davidanalyst671

Ай бұрын

they have backups.... but when you run out of juice in the main battery, it slows, slows, and slows even more, and before it completely shuts off, it makes sure you are stopped. There are vids of people running them out of power

@brianb-p6586

Ай бұрын

It can only steer if it has 48 volt power. There should be redundancy in the power supply; perhaps Munro can cover that in a future video.

@kazedcat

Ай бұрын

@@brianb-p6586 Now I am curious. What is the voltage of the auxiliary battery. Is it 48V?

@brianb-p6586

Ай бұрын

@@kazedcat yes, the low-voltage battery in the Cybertruck runs at 48 volts, nominally.

They already sent an update out, that opened the full rear wheel steering angle, as well as the differential locks 😊

On ehuge benefit of by-wire steering is the ability for the system to decide what steering roadwheel angle to apply no matter what the driver input to the handwheel is. The biggest problem when calibrating a dynamic stability control system is drivers who "wang" the handwheel all over the shop, upsetting the system. With by-wire steering, you can perfectly control vehicle yaw with a roadwheel steering input as well as, or in preference too, a brake yaw application. Add in machine vision and lidar, and you can finally break the age old problem of drivers simply getting target fixated on the thing they are about to hit, and as a result hitting it. In advanced driving we teach "look where you want go, not where you don't want to go" but for most drivers, and emergency is so rare, unfolded quickly and un-expectidly, and as a result, a lot of fundamentally avoidable (through handwheel inputs in conjunction with braking) are not avoided at all....

@christiang.9485

Ай бұрын

Wenn Du sowas willst oder brauchst, ok - aber ich schalte im Winter je nach Straßenglätte und Schneelage sogar das ESP AUS - aus dem einfachen Grund, weil es hoffnungslos überfordert UND eben viel zu langsam und träge ist. Bei sportlicherer Fahrweise, ist das System sehr schnell überfordert. Probiere es mal aus, ein außer Kontrolle geratenes Auto MIT und dann OHNE ESP wieder einzufangen - dann weißt Du was ich meine. Bei mir, war es also genau anders herum, dass das "überforderte ESP" ständig und verspätet MEINE Lenkkorrekturen dann praktisch zunichte gemacht hat. Man spürt dann regelrecht, wie das ESP mit 0,5 Sekunden immer zu spät eingreift.