These old Radeon cards look so cool.

@chdapachuau5614

3 жыл бұрын

its an art

@mooker93

3 жыл бұрын

They do, i wish it were more powerful lol

@TheUnknownVariable

2 жыл бұрын

I have about 5-10 of these various old amd & nvidia gpus! My dad used to build computers in the 90’s and 2000’s it’s really cool to look at :D

@milesquinao9337

2 жыл бұрын

AxOMA: Bulky but legendary.

Windows 98 and DOS-era retro builds are always my favorite!

@darunealbane

2 жыл бұрын

asus a7n266 vm/aa Amd athalon 2000 512mb ram 2g/16g CF hds 128mb agp geforce4 Soundblaster audiliogy2 The MB is awesome to start a build has geforce2 32mb and sound built in

@darunealbane

2 жыл бұрын

The MB is all over

E8600 was such a beast of a chip. Even in a locked down Inspiron 530s, it, with 8GB RAM and a GT 1030, kept me going until last year for home theater and retro gaming/emulation use, on Ubuntu with Wine/Proton. It's now a file/Plex/Jellyfin/pihole server, after I sold off the 1030. Wolfdale really feels like the Sandy Bridge of Core 2, being relevant far longer than most would've ever guessed.

@thegeforce6625

Жыл бұрын

Can count the 45nm quads too.

@bitelaserkhalif

Жыл бұрын

If possible try setfsb

I missed the cool cooler designs they used on these. I personally have a diamond multimedia version with Radeon Ruby on it.

@Jackpkmn

3 жыл бұрын

I've got an old Sapphire Radeon HD 38070 its very cool. The ASUS GeForce GTX 550 Ti that i replace it with back in teh day is still a very sleek card but it just misses the personality that the old card artwork brought imo.

_Really_ cool project. This is definitely something I've thought about doing for a long time, but funny enough every time you see people try to get PCI Express working in 98, it's usually with an NVIDIA card. So it's very nice to see this being done with some Radeon GPUs, and you couldn't ask for better results.

@JohnSmith-iu8cj

3 жыл бұрын

Looking very much forward to your next video!

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

I like using Radeon cards with Windows 98 :) When capturing from DVI for example, DOS output is sharper compared to Nvidia. And the drivers have all the settings, like AA, AF and V-Sync without having to install coolbits registry tweak and things like that. As for game compatibility, it's hard to say, I actually don't test that many games, and have little time to play, so some games might work better on either of them...

@stefanl5183

3 жыл бұрын

From a software point of view PCIe is backward compatible with PCI. Therefore it should work. Of course there can still be issues with drivers support for the device itself, but older operating systems should simply see a PCIe device as if it's simply a regular PCI device. There are even cheap adapters that you can find on places like Ebay and alibaba that will adapt PCi cards to PCIe slots and vise versa. The adapters require no software as they are simply a hardware bridge.

@QuisquamHam

9 ай бұрын

Hey Pixel, love your vids, hey you are good with old stuff being used in new stuff maybe, any chance you could weigh in on something for me quick? I collect GPU's and love switching them in my system and benchmarking them. I have Win 10 and can drop anything in from my DX10 HD 2900xt up to my current 7900 XTX. But if I put in my X850 XT or X1900XT DX9 cards, I can't get a signal, not even the bios. Are some motherboards just not compatible with DX9 cards? I would think it is windows not liking the card, but like I said, no video out at all even for POST screen.

@PixelPipes

9 ай бұрын

@@QuisquamHam It could be compatibility, but I've also had ATI cards not initialize their monitor outputs because they don't recognize the screen attached.

Amazing video, I have a Windows 98 and Windows XP dual boot retro gaming PC and I love it. It's a Pentium 4 at 3ghz with an ATI Radeon X800 XT PE AGP (I couldn't find the X850 XT when I built the PC), and the performance in Windows 98 is outstanding. I also achieved to use 2GB of RAM with the patch you mentioned; I bought it from Rudolph directly, and I had no idea that he passed away, what a loss :__( Keep up the good work Phil!

@paulhilling6208

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds similar to my setup will have to use this patch

@ashleyjwilliamshand

2 жыл бұрын

Can you advise on the earlier windows 98 16 bit game compatibility? It would be appreciated

Just finished my "supreme" 775/AGP build with a C2X X6800 and a (silent) FX 5950 Ultra -- Got 25000 points in 3D Mark 2001 SE -- Was very proud -- Until I saw this video -- Thanks Phil ;)

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Hehe, well now you know what parts to get :D If you get a decent OC your scores will improve across the board as we are heavily CPU limited.

Nice! Answering the questions I didn't know I needed!

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Any time!

@SolSeal

3 жыл бұрын

Agree

I remember my first duel boot with 98SE and Win2k Pro. Kids these days don't know the struggle we had back then. Great Video! I'm 3D FX, Voodoo Banshee......TnT2 Riva old!!!

Love seeing these "retro" builds. Very well done.

Fantastic Video ! -- I loved the comparison and contrast between two different boards. And the conscious decision to show case the reasons for going with a PCI Express versus a traditional AGP motherboard. I aLso LOVED your perspective on DOS/Win98 and XP/Vista/W7 multiboot, or multibuild systems and why you chose one over the other. The driver hacks and the sad legacy contribution of Rudolph Loew's patches were heart rending. Can't wait for the NAS videos to come !!!!!

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you 😊

Thanks for the video Phil! Been scratching my head around a K8M890, AM2 board and a Quadro FX 1400 and I thought I was the only one getting issues with Device Manager for the Quadro to work...!

19:15 Cheap as chips until a video is made about them hehe =)

I haven’t heard Phil this excited in awhile lol. As always gr8 work Phil. A Happy New Years as well.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Same to you!

I really enjoy these sorts of videos you do, finding other options for retro hardware. And thank you for sharing the link for the RAM patch, it's going to be very useful

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

No problem!

@thomas.becker

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab two tips for the high-end geforce videos: loew created a bios patch for geforce 6 & 7 cards with 512mb vram, so you can use a unpatched driver. also for 256mb geforce 7 cards (like 7800gs) you can actually use the last official driver (81.98) without any modification. just force the install, it works. did it myself. at least for cards with the g70 chip. not 100% sure with g71 chips. maybe even the bios patched 512mb cards could work with that driver version. i still paid for the patch ;) r.i.p. r. loew...

I'm glad that networking will have more focus in the next videos because I've always wanted a networking solution to transfer files between my retro and modern PCs and I've not been completely successful in implementing such a solution yet. I have to keep the USB controller disabled due to resource conflicts with my sound card so file transfer using a flash drive can be a pain sometimes. Very nice video.

Good video! I've had some success doing the Win98/XP dual boot systems, and your parts used here are a pretty close match. The South Bridge being an early ICH5 is generally the only one to support both 98 and XP, with the earlier North Bridges like i865G also working well. Congrats on the PCIE success! I've never been able to make that work.

Awesome experiment, phil! Got a new use for that old q6600 build I had collecting dust somewhere :)

Cool! I have a couple of early LGA775 boards that won't support Core 2 Duo processors, thus making them unsuitable to build low end Windows 10 machines. This information makes them good candidates to make Windows 98 systems instead of the LGA478 boards I have been using. Thanks as always for your great videos!

Great experiment Phil. I just love 775. Sooo versatile.

Awesome Video Phil, Thank You very much

I'm really looking forward to seeing how you manage to network everything. I have a fileserver that I will be running Unraid on and this would be so useful for my retro builds.

Nvidia cards up to 6800 works with default drivers. Its the 7000 and 8000 cards you can get working with modified drivers!

@retroftw

3 жыл бұрын

I tried posting the link to the modified drivers twice now. But just google this, and you will find them: "Geforce 6/7 and 8 AGP/PCI-E Driver Edition for Win98/ME by Zak!"

@Synthematix

3 жыл бұрын

I got the 9600gt working with 98

Great fun to watch, nice work!

Been a couple videos since I commented I think: Happy Philday!

TRULY THE ULTIMATE WINDOWS 98 SE RETRO MACHINE: DUAL CORE, DDR2, PCIe GPU, SSD, AND SB WITH DOS COMPATIBILITY.

For those that want to mess with AGP and PCIE on 775 a good choice would be the 4CoreDual-VSTA board by Asrock as it supported both DDR1 and 2 as well as AGP and PCIE, it was what we used at the shop to test parts during the changeover from AGP to PCIE. It supported from P4 all the way to C2Q so we could test a ton of gear on it and while IIRC out of the box it didn't have Win98 drivers it used a bog standard Via chipset so standard Via Win98 drivers worked. It was a great test bed platform and looking on eBay they sell for around $60 USD with a CPU so not bad for an LGA 775 that can run anything.

Great video Phil as always!

Funny thing about the ATI X800 series of cards. They were designed to run with a PCIe bus. Even the AGP model. If you look just above the AGP port on the card you will see the chip that converts PCIe to AGP. I believe that ATI called it PCIe to AGP bridge

Another brilliant video. Happy New Year Phil.

What a video! I can´t wait to see what kind of solutions you´ve come up with Win98 & networking :D

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

More to come!

@MarcoGPUtuber

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab ;)

Just wanted to thank you for this video. I was able to test a similar setup recently: ASUS P5KPL-AM EPU / Core2 e8400 / Hynix DDR2 5300u @ 667 / Radeon x800 XT My average 3D Mark 2001 score was 34280, but I had several system and PCI devices that are not supported or do not have drivers. So I tried something else... With these parts, I was able to get 3D Mark 2001 scores in the 23500 range on an ASRock ALIVESATA2-GLAN and Athlon 64 4000+ with 1mb cache overclocked from 2.6 GHz to 2.88 GHz. The AM2 board used a VIA chipset with working drivers for everything except an ACPI motherboard resource. Also got in the 22500 range on a Fujitsu-Siemens D2030-A Socket 939 board with an Athlon 64 3700+, SiS chipsets, fully supported with all drivers. Fun projects, all PCI Express, all working with the caveats mentioned for the AM2 and 775 boards.

@philscomputerlab

9 ай бұрын

Awesome outcome! Yes PCIe feels so won't but the more surprising to see it actually work 😜

omg phil.... you r the best win98 retro pc youtuber

Really enjoyed the video. Thanks for these. I would definitely be interested in the networking videos for DOS up through Win98. I would also be interested to see the video on the alternative sound card driver installation.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Got it! I also want to do more tutorials again, release them on a Bonus Tuesday :)

Oh, my God, it's Phil. (Quake's "The Seal of Nehahra" movie reference) On a serious note, this is something I have to try.

Love the vid, Phil. I had pretty good success using the ATI X850 XT PE vid card, ASUS P5KPL-AM SE motherboard and the other hardware listed (other than using an Audigy 2 ZS instead of a Live! which I also have but prefer the Audigy better). This is maybe the 15th Win98 system I've built over the years. However it's been tricky getting it to boot consistently when using over 512 MB of RAM even with Rudolph Loew's patchmem installed. With 1 GB or 2 GB installed sometimes it boots, but usually it just starts to load Windows and the reboots before the login. With a single 512 MB stick of RAM it's super rock-solid and is most stable Win98 system I've had in 20+ years. I ordered some different RAM so I'll have to see how that works out.

@IonfraX

8 ай бұрын

Hi! I have a question regarding Audigy 2 ZS and SB Live. I guess both of them don't have official Win98 drivers? Could use some help on how to install drivers for these so that they work properly with Win98

waiting for your video thanks :)

Some time ago I buid a "modern" W98 using a motherboard with Intel 945 chipset and modded drivers and an nVidia 7600 GT and more modded drivers, surprisigly once everybody was installed it runs flawlessly and of course very fast for a W98 machine. It was an experiment more than anything else and I ended up selling all the parts once I have the system up and running.

@envyeleven9471

3 жыл бұрын

Going through this right now - any chance you still have a link to those 945 modded drivers that work on Windows98? Searching high and low - can't find any.

@shiva_MMIV

3 жыл бұрын

@@envyeleven9471 I'll search for them, although you'll have to wait some time, I'm not in my home this days.

@core36

2 жыл бұрын

@@shiva_MMIV you home yet?

@shiva_MMIV

2 жыл бұрын

@@core36 Totally forgot about this, if you're interested I'll see if I still have them somewhere

@core36

2 жыл бұрын

@@shiva_MMIV yes sir, that would be very nice. Thank you

Great job! I just installed Win98 on my 775Dual-VSTA yesterday. I'm going to attempt PICe on 98/XP like you did. AGP with a voodoo2 for 98/DOS....it'll be interesting!

If only 3Dfx lived long enough to make PCIe cards. :) I wonder how the Original Halo on PC would measure up. Although, that might be asking for a lot.

Great and informative video Phil! I have a X700 PRO AGP Win98 build and performance is excellent compared to NVIDIA FX series, but I did have a few issues. I could not get 1080p working on ATI card and playing DOS games inside Win98 had some graphical issues (Duke3D especially, window displays garbled horizontal lines). I think I was using same drivers as you (cat 6.2)

Great video Phil. Thanks.

More benchmark footage please maybe side by side comparing both setups. Thank you for the content.

@ashleyjwilliamshand

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. Would be great to have a "part 2" video with in depth game benchmarks on resolutions, frame rates, and game compatibility. I know it takes alot of time to set this all up and edit them though.

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! I've been waiting for this video for so long. (Imagine british soccers fans reaction)

@janwitkowsky8787

3 жыл бұрын

Always a joy to watch your videos and many thanks for your hard work.

@janwitkowsky8787

3 жыл бұрын

I do have a P4 w/ HT machine that just barely works. HDD is dying. And the mainboard doesn't have batteries. And it runs WinXP I manage to boot it up and all for the first 2-3 days. But I never had a chance to troubleshoot my 9600XT, nor my Geforce 4 mx400. They might be dead. But I have hardware that have managed to boot, now that we have confirmed that SSD works on Win98, I'm gonna test it when time is conveniet.

I don't have an actual use for windows 98, as all the games I used to play back then usually work or have patches to work under XP, for dos games all work perfectly fine in dosbox, my retro xp machine has an HD 3650 agp version, performance is similar to this card and gives me that retro feeling I want from an old computer

@lordterra1377

2 жыл бұрын

The only real thing your missing is the music quality. I was shocked how much clearer and vibrant dos games sound using real soundblaster hardware. Dosbox is good enough 95% of the time but there are a few games that no matter how you adjust the timing it doesn't feel quite right.

I dig how you're always exploring new ways to dive into 98SE, often making it more accessible and affordable in the process. I also saw Joseph's thread about installing Live cards with Audigy drivers, and a video on that would be cool. And I'd be keen on more networking stuff too. I'm already using FTP on my DOS and W98 machines, which has been game changing. Next item on my wishlist is to set up shares from a NAS that can be mounted on my retro machines. Currently tinkering with EtherDFS for mounting network drives under DOS.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Nice! Yea FTP works out of the box is very handy. I also had WebDAV working, but connecting directly to Windows share is still the most convenient method IMO. But in time, legacy features will get removed, and sooner or later we won't be able to network like that... I have to look up EtherDFS, sounds interesting! I use mTCP currently, I can GET individual files, but the MGET command doesn't work, throws an error about filename issues... I'm working with the author of mTCP, hopefully we can resolve this. You can run a FTP server on DOS and use a client from a Windows machine, but I find it neater to just have the NAS running and not involve another computer.

@Grus0

3 жыл бұрын

​@@philscomputerlab Yep, currently using mTCP's FTP server and managing files with Filezilla on my main PC. (On the W98 machines I'm using WarFTP for the server). At first I thought that's all I would need, but I soon decided a NAS would be a good idea too.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

@@Grus0 I think you will enjoy having a NAS! I don't want to sound like a sales person, but it has made my digital life so much easier, everything is in one place and all machines can access it. The NAS has features way past what I use, you can connect a monitor, keyboard, mouse and use it basically as a PC! Install a VM, Windows 10, I even had Crysis running on it!

@Grus0

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab Yep, I think it's definitely going to happen!

Man, I've been hearing about this (pcie gpus supposedly working in Win 98 under some circumstances) for some years now, but this is the first time we actually have a concise video on the topic! What's left now is to try to topple the previously considered to be fastest card in Win 98 (the 7950gt agp with modified drivers from the 6000 series) with its bigger brother - the 7900gtx (that obviously only comes in pcie variant) while at the same time maybe also OC the E8600 (a famously good chip in that regard, known to hit 5.0 Ghz in some cases) sky high. That might be just enough to push some of the games over 1000 fps, lol.

@beezle1976

2 жыл бұрын

Win 9x can work on ich9, 10 and 11 based boards. This also includes some Core i - 8xx and 9xx systems (ie. core 2 e8x00 isnt the fastest supported cpu for Win9x).

Quake 3 Arena

@davkdavk

3 жыл бұрын

I find just capping at 125fps feels better with com_maxfps 125

@TheMrDemonized

3 жыл бұрын

@@davkdavk com_maxfps 250 also better

@wasd____

3 жыл бұрын

Quake Live (the relevant Quake 3 iteration today) has a forced cap of 125 fps that can't be changed.

@SleeperJohns

3 жыл бұрын

@@davkdavk 333fps is best, but make sure sv_fps is set to 125 or else physics will break.

@TheMrDemonized

3 жыл бұрын

@@wasd____ it can be changed to 250 via command described above you

Those videos on DOS networking with NAS are going to be great.

This Asus P5KPL-AM SE is very capable for light overclocking. My C2D E8400 and C2Q Q9400 ran stable with 400 Mhz FSB on this board.

@Vantud391

3 жыл бұрын

Does it need expensive cooler to reach that limit?

@Breaky717

3 жыл бұрын

@@Vantud391 I used the stock, passive heatsink on the north bridge, but i bought a cheap ID Cooling mini tower cooler for the Q9400.

Yeah, a follow-up with Geforce and Quadro cards world be amazing. We could use something like NGlide for 3DFX too.

@snelieacks140

3 жыл бұрын

I have actually got nglide working perfectly via DirectX 9 using an ati radeon x700 pro pcie on a asus p5kpl-am epu mainboard with fully working 32 bit hardrive access with sata. Games like motorcross racer and unreal look freakin awesome on high redolutions.

This is amazing! I didn't know this was possible, and now it opens up so many doors! :) Obviously you need to dig into Nvidia cards next. If you can get that working, that'd be huge. The NAS video you hinted about, that sounds great too. I suck at networking stuff, so any guides are welcome, hehe. What a way to open up a new year eh. Cheers Phil, you rock.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Yea it does open so many doors 🙂

@monotoneone

3 жыл бұрын

Nvidia cards work too. Only problem is the newer drivers you have to use that don't work well with some older titles.

@MarcoGPUtuber

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab I say networking opens up.....ports ;) I'll see myself out.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

@@MarcoGPUtuber Hehe good one 😁

I love your video's.I am busy with a old amd 939 that i will use as a retro pc.Did a mobo upgrade 2 weeks ago.Just been busy with rl before i set her up.Nothing was wrong with the old mobo just the new one has better oc capability.I fitted a custom air cooler and gonna try breach 1000mhz oc on air.People ask what am i to gain for fixing an old pc and my answer is simple.Knowledge.Doesn't matter how much you learn there's always way to improve.

@KokoroKatsura

3 жыл бұрын

a n i m e n i m e

I've been rocking a X3220 and a AGP X850XT for a while now with Win98. Blindingly fast on Win98!

ASRock had very interesting boards back then. I had an socket 478 board with AGP and PCIe, the ASRock P4Dual 915GL. Where you could use both at the same time, crazy times.

Love your videos!

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

Good job, Buddy👍👍👍👍👍

Excellent 😊👍

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks 😊

Great job Phil, thanks for that. Pentium 4 mobos with agp slots are still pretty cheap around here, but it's good to have this knowledge. A dificult one to get is a motherboard with universal agp, needed for some voodoo cards.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

There are no chipset drivers! Just install graphics drivers, Ethernet drivers and Sound Card drivers.

@SUCRA

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab Really cool!

Nice video, thank you very much for making it. Windows 98 doesn't care whether video card is PCIe or AGP. If chipset drivers are available it will work. Most PCIe boards do not have working chipset drivers. Drivers install, but system is unstable. From my experience anything above Intel 8xx series chipset will be a lot of headache. I'm surprised you got a stable system with G31.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Yea I didn't install any chipset drivers :)

He passed?.... :( :( :( What a great fellow for making this patch and props to his family for making it free for everyone to use even after he passed, I think he would have appreciated that from the after life...

Works great wirh my P5KPL-AM EPU mainboard. But i had also to deactivate the Standard Display Adapter (VGA) as well. Big Thanx to Phil!

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Great 👍

@fabioefs2006

3 жыл бұрын

Hey ElTentakel, what GPU are you using?

@snelieacks140

3 жыл бұрын

To avoid the resource conflict with the video card, i usually just disable the integrated graphics outright. then the video card works without any issues after installing the ati catalyst drivers so you don't need to disable anything in device manager. Although I'm not sure how it is with nvidia's side.

@2ichy

3 жыл бұрын

@@fabioefs2006 Itried successfully a Radeon X800 GTO first, it words perfect. I also tried a Geforce 6800GS and it also works, but there are some issues in some Games due to the bad driver support. I used "NV8269.EXE". But the 6800 GS might be the better card to emulate 3Dfx Games with nGlide.

Love those old motherboards that show transition from one technology to another.

Very cool. Sounds like this was a lot of work. I'd love to see another with Nvidia cards, but I'm betting that'd be even more difficult to get things working.

I love these high-end Windows '98 systems.

Fascinating video. It's really interesting to see what can be made to be compatible with Win98SE. I do have a question though and I think you'll be well placed to answer. In my head I remember it being more about a question of getting drivers to work and getting directX to work and once that happened games weren't really bothered if it was 98 or XP. But I'm a little cautious in assuming that's right because I clearly remember back in the day that if you asked anything about 98 people would just say "Go XP it's better you idiot", because back in the day there was always a relentless push forward to new tech and new games and old stuff was scorned. The reason behind my question is I'm trying to build a set of PCs (I'm up to 6 now) to cover games right from the start of IBM-PC to current day. I've got great overlaps going on, but what I don't really know is between 98SE and XP and between XP and 7... are there any games that don't work properly on XP that are better with super powered hardware in 98?

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Yea many games work on both, 98 and XP. But with 98 you also get DOS and other parts like Voodoo graphics or A3D that don't work under 98.

@DaveVelociraptor

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab Yes. I have a 386SX16, a 233MMX SS7 with a voodoo1 and an S3 trio(for 386DX to P1MMX stuff), a P3@600 with a 4200ti, an AGP P4 @ 3.2ghz with a 9800pro, an X6 @ 3.2Ghz with a 750ti, and my modern 9900K with a 1080ti. I hope I've got everything covered with enough overlap that I will have a choice of which machine to run anything on.

I had a Nvidia 6600 GT PCI-E running on a dual core motherboard about 10 years ago. Performance was fantastic but i could no longer use DOS. PCI-E cards from Nvidia break DOS in Windows 98. I never tried any ATI PCI-E cards so i can't comment on those. Great video.

@LindenAshbyMK

Жыл бұрын

hi, say - what kind of trouble did it give you in DOS ?

@moforetro3612

Жыл бұрын

It completely locked up the system. It's all or nothing I'm afraid.

Great idea , I never knew u could use a PCI e cards . I bought a x800 agp and wasn't cheap. I use Duel boot with xp with athlon 3000+ works well but struggles with grand Prix 4 in xp and 98 need more power lol.

One board i did managed to get Windows 98 with PCIe GPU working is the Gigabyte GA-EP41-UD3L, Intel G41 based

@mateuszbaranowski7279

3 жыл бұрын

GA-p35c-ds3r works too

This video helped me get a system working with a Geforce 6800 and a Pentium M on an industrial itx 915gm motherboard with all chipset drivers.

Phil is my kind of scientist !

before watching: PCI, and PCIe are "the same" as far as an OS knows, they're logically the same.

@TheTurnipKing

3 жыл бұрын

Though, there is the issue of finding Windows 98 drivers for new cards in 2021.

@kiaas

3 жыл бұрын

​@@TheTurnipKing Well, yeah, but an HD 3850 isn't going to work regardless if it's AGP or PCIe variant, it's not the slot it's the card.

@TheDemocrab

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheTurnipKing Virtually impossible to find one for brand new cards, luckily it's still relatively easy and cheap to get a PCIe based GeForce 6 series or Radeon 9000/x*00 series PCIe variant which do have Win9x support. I also wonder how possible a community written driver could be for Win9x machines, basically using the open source Linux drivers to figure things out as that'd allow support under Win9x for up to nVidia's Kepler GPUs and basically all of AMD and Intels GPUs (Pretty sure there's also open source drivers for the less-prominent manufacturers including 3DFX, S3, etc) while also allowing the community to request driver-side features/fixes/optimisations. (eg. Making *any* GPU run the vendor-specific miniGL implementations to make say, running a Glide or MeTaL game on a modern Radeon or Intel GPU as simple as running it on a Voodoo)

@TheTurnipKing

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheDemocrab funny, I was just wondering the other day how damn nigh useless "display adaptors" like the gt710 would stack up against vintage but expensive 3D accelerators

@TheDemocrab

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheTurnipKing That is actually a really interesting question that's gotten me thinking and going by the pixel/texture fillrates, I'd guess that a GT710 would be within the ballpark of a Radeon 9600Pro for its performance assuming both cards have optimised drivers. The GT710 would be faster for sure, but it's a question of how much in which games as the pixel fillrate is only a shade higher (1.6GPixels/S for the 9600Pro vs 1.62GPixels/S for the GT710) while the texture fillrate is a lot higher (Radeon 9600Pro is 1.6GP/s, the GT710 is 6.4GP/s) which means that the GT710 will perform better in games with lots of texturing, but most 9x games are pretty limited in that which means both cards should be pretty close. Obviously this is theoretical, fillrates don't necessarily tell the whole story. Maybe the GT710 is lacking support for some specific hardware feature that was common back in the 9x era and has to emulate it in software instead which would slow things down, or maybe there could be some interesting driver-side game optimisations that could be applied thanks to modern GPUs being far different to older GPUs in terms of design which could speed things up.

Need to see a 98 setup with a 7950gt pcie card running. Glad to see radeon pcie cards working though!

@monotoneone

3 жыл бұрын

I have a 7900 GTX working great in windows 98. I used 82.69 driver.

@tomat7041

3 жыл бұрын

@@monotoneone any issues with it or are there certain things that don't run?

@monotoneone

3 жыл бұрын

​@@tomat7041 It has been a few years and I don't think I ever tested it much. But those 82.69 drivers do have issues (even with AGP cards).

@retroftw

3 жыл бұрын

I believe its just with modified drivers like this. Google: "Geforce 6/7 and 8 AGP/PCI-E Driver Edition for Win98/ME by Zak!"

interesting to see how these last gpu cards for win 98se work and learning what are the drawbacks to using them. I'm very curious to see a comparison on how the late nvidia cards (geforce fx 5900/5950 and geforce 6800) also work with 98se, how the 8 bit palletized texture/table fog are affected and also how is the 98se compatibility are affected with later and earlier games using these cards. I did find recently that Nvidia had a table fog emulation available but not sure which software or os. I copied this instruction to find table fog emulation from a battlefront forum circa 2002 posted by user "Schrullenhaft": Start Menu > Settings > Control Panel > Display control panel > Settings tab > Advanced... button > at this point it may vary, NVidia will have a tab with the name of the video card and others may list their advanced configuration tabs here (Direct3D or DirectX tabs for some brands) > Additional Properties button (NVidia) > Direct3D Settings tab (NVidia) > Enable Fog-table Emulation check box (NVidia)

Thanks for the entertainment. Good video as always. As for socket 775 I set aside the E5200 for a Q6600 at one point but not sure that is good considering what the pc is used for and also in the link you provided I am seeing upgrades. I think in the future I'd like to get the Q9650 just to have I believe what is the fastest quad for these but that price needs to come down. As for other cpus still need an E8500 and those are not priced too bad. I wonder how long it would take to get things though from China with all that is going on. I am in Canada btw. It was already long enough before but now who knows. It is not that I need it right away but just wondered how others were doing in terms of getting things from Aliexpress.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Currently it takes around 6 weeks for AliExpress items to arrive :( But partly because where I live...

If you're using Nvidia cards under w98 there are modified drivers (82.69) that support 7000 and 8000 series. I previously had my 8800GTS 640MB working under 98se but I think I had KernelEx installed too so that may have helped.

there are some early LGA775 chipsets like the VIA P4M900 which have native windows 98 drivers and have working PCIe that'll work well with a build with those ati graphics card. the (ASUS P5VD2-VM SE) LGA775 motherboard is one with windows 98 drivers.

@kamerat7689

3 жыл бұрын

Another cool thing with VIA chipsets is that you can have Sound Blaster compatibility under MS-DOS without any TSR's using sound cards based on the ESS Solo-1 and Avance Logic ALS4000. Unfortunately the Solo-1 refuses to use the VxD drivers on my VIA PCIe motherboard so I'm stuck with the WMD drivers.

Nice to see network being covered a bit more in the future! Small note though: whatever you do, do NOT mix old Windows machines with your 'daily use' home network. Plit them! Might be a nice topic for a future video as well, to discuss the various options. ie a separate vlan, or a separate switch/router.. You could do all kinds of fun things with it; ie use a simple router/wifi/switch box where you use the rj45 ports for your retro machines and the wifi radio for the internet uplink etc.. Fun :)

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

To be honest this stuff is above my skillset. The machines get an IP address from th Internet modem/router, including default gateway and Internet access. So the retro machines are indeed at risk...

@ASUSTOR_YT

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab The NAS has two RJ-45 ports. Perhaps use one Ethernet port for the daily use network and another port for a separated 'retro' network. The NAS will then have two IP addresses completely separate from each other.

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

@@ASUSTOR_YT Thanks for the tip, that worked! I used an old modem/router and connected that to the second Ethernet port! I now have a separate Retro LAN, that's not connected to the Internet and let's all the older systems (DOS, 98, XP, Vista) talk to the NAS without catching bugs :D

I built an 8gb ram w98 machine, being a 32 bit system read only 3.5gb of ram, but anyway it's 8gb ddr2 1200mhz, and all components officially supported. By the way, it's an interesting video because don't have much of these around, I had to find a way to make it work by myself. Using a PCIe 6800XT overclocked BIG LIKE!

That naked chipset on the AGP board looks weird. So used to seeing it covered.

@ernestuz

3 жыл бұрын

that's R18!

@kurbeco

3 жыл бұрын

meh, it's just the south bridge / IO controller

I am becoming more and more convinced that I need to build a Windows 98 retro gaming PC

Phil: DOS & Win98 NAS tutorials, please!

@ASUSTOR_YT

3 жыл бұрын

Stay tuned ;)

@Reziac

3 жыл бұрын

Another vote for that. My full-time DOS PC thanks you.

It worked for me on my first try with Windows 98 First Edition when disabling the driver and installing the patches and Direct X 5-9!!!

Recently someone gave me a Foxconn k8m890m2ma-rs2h motherboard with a Sempron 3600+ and a PCIe X300. Just out of curiosity I installed Windows 98 and I was pleasantly surprised. I haven't tested it much, but I've played NFS Porsche Unleashed and it was very quick. VIA drivers installed with no errors, but I do get some unknown devices in device manager, and I had to use a PCI soundcard, as the onboard was not detected.

Ayy look who's back

I have built Windows 98 PCs installing Dosbox on my system xD. Despite the DOSBox developers themselves sometimes having said , that putting Windows 98+ was not optimal for DOSBox, my experiences have been outstanding. Raw CPU-performance might be slower than using a virtualization software, but DOSBox offers the best gaming performance I have seen, best compatibility, running super smooth, stable, fast and including anything anyone would expect from a Windows 98(SE) machine, like using Voodoo emulation, the real Roland MT32 soundbanks, best video output filtering and such.

Very interested in that NAS and the PCI-E possibilities.

Shit I remember when this was top of the line like it was yesterday.

On the AGP system with more than one PCI slot you could test a Voodoo 2 in it as a secondary card for games that require 8 bit palletized textures, but I am uncertain if that would create more conflicts in Windows 98 SE or not. If you could get it to work that would make one hell of Windows 98 retro machine though.

Just tried using my Radeon X800 GTO (PCIe) with my recently-built Windows 98 rig. Specs are almost the same as yours, with using PCChips P43G (Intel G31 chipset) and Sound Blaster Audigy 1. You can use LoneCrusader's Intel chipset drivers for chipset support. With everything installed, I get a score of 28584 in 3DMark 2001 SE, making it a fantastic performer for a Windows 9x rig.

Watch out! There's gonna a be run for the Asus P5KPL-AM SE and the ATI X850 XT PE on ebay next ;) Also why the Live 5.1? Seems like an Audigy 2 ZS would fit the theme better. As always Phil, thanks for the inspiration! Edit: The X850 XE PE also includes a variant with a DVI and VGA output for all us CRT purists :)

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

AFAIK the AGP card has DVI and VGA, whereas the PCIe card has dual DVI. But you can just use DVI to VGA dongle, and drive CRT that way :)

@Crazyerics

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab Actually, at least in the US, there was a PCI-e variant. Check out this listing on newegg: newegg.com/p/1B4-00NG-00055

Device Name: *B A N A N A*

Very cool 👍

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Cheers!

@JohnSmith-xq1pz

3 жыл бұрын

@@philscomputerlab your welcome

When working on writing drivers for an open source project Im involved in I was surprised to learn that pci express is actually easier and much less work than agp to get working. It's obviously different, but there's a parallel with getting VESA modes in that it doesnt require specific chipset support, but rather a standard (over simplified, but it gets the idea across).

aaaah the great nostalgia.

I had the XT850 when it came out and it was great at the time.

@philscomputerlab

Жыл бұрын

I remember having a 9800 and then reading the reviews of the X800 when it launched... I lusted after that card 😅

reminds me of oerg866's ultimate 98SE build with a PCIe 7800GT (iirc last nvidia card that had drivers that could be made to work with 98SE). that rig was even able to run minecraft. on 98SE. at playable framerates... mind blown

Quick question about chipset drivers as you went through it quickly. Is it ok to rely on generic drivers Win98 uses for the system then and just leave ones with question marks as-is?

Awesome vid man 👍

@philscomputerlab

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks 👍

Greetings Philscomputerlab! I have PCIe GeForce 7950 GT OC 512MB running Win98SE, Msdos 6.22, and WinME. The motherboard used is DDR2 ASRock 4CoreDUOSATA-2 VER 1.2. Motherboard comes with drivers for win98 to win7. Was using AGP 7900GS 512MB but 7950 is fastest. I have some problems with sata2 ports so I use ide to sata adapters for two 128GB sata SSD.