I began to wake up from the JW's (Jehovah's Witness) by reading about Mormons and watching videos entitled.."I was a Mormon". Then John Dehlin's excommunication was broadcast on television. I started following him and I noticed a ton of similarities between the JW's and the Mormons. This was an eye-opener for me!! After that I got the courage to go to KZread and look up.. "Why do people leave the Jehovah's Witnesses faith"...that's when I really started waking up! I became obsessed listening to all ExJW stories on KZread and the FEAR of the "so called" apostates that we are taught to detest started to become a different reality, they are just people telling their experiences when they were an active JW and why they left. So all the stigma started to dwindle. Then I branched out and started looking into Seventh Day Adventist, Scientology, Christadelphians, The Brethren, Christian Science. I started noticing the parallels between all the religions, and it runs deep...no questioning, no doubting and everything comes from the top down. The rank-and-file are just the followers with no personal self, no individuality. After you wake up and start seeing these things it can take a toll on you, especially if this is the only thing you have known all of your life. Therapy is definitely a must when waking up! I can now honestly say that life is better on the outside! 💯

@valerienelson3296

Жыл бұрын

If not for this podcast and others, it would have never occurred to me that it would be so emotionally taxing. I have never been particularly religious so just assumed most would never look back , and only regret how much of their life they missed out on. Now I can clearly see, it's like deprogramming from any other cult, and how deep these teachings are ingrained.

@kurt666morris

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your post. As a former life long Mormon I can identify with every word and thought you put out here.

@tomsmith2013

Жыл бұрын

The Jehovah's Witnesses believe that only 144,000 faithful in a world currently inhabited by nearly 8 billion (not to mention all those who lived in the eons before) will ultimately find salvation in Heaven. With market share like that, Christ couldn't get a job as CEO of Chrysler. Wake up people, the true Church is engraved on the heart, dwells in the mind and is made eternal by the soul. ‘Love one another as I have loved you.’ Nothing else is required

@Tres03

Жыл бұрын

What’s your favorite JW deconstruction channel? I want to start watching

@bencheevers6693

Жыл бұрын

JW's are quite nuts, I'm happy that you're happier on the outside, I hope your parents aren't shunning you and that the personal cost of living in reality wasn't too destructive to your live and relationships. Just watching some of the animated JW childrens education videos made by the church is deeply disturbing

All Mormons are equal. But some Mormons are more equal than others.

@hopeinHim5160

26 күн бұрын

TanukiDigital, That is so sad and so true. It's a man made ceremony ( which avails nothing, as only GOD can bestow any heavenly gift. ) The entirety of Mormonism is a man made construct. To all who read this, and are still lds, please Run from it, to the true Biblical/ Historical Jesus the Christ of Nazareth Who HAS the POWER to SAVE. ✝️🙏🕊️❤️‍🔥

@darrenlawson4909

4 күн бұрын

And some are just Women.

Hans describing the love for his wife is so heartwarming. I get emotional every time I hear it.

@lulu-qw8xy

5 ай бұрын

Matthew 10:37-39 Bible scripture We are not to love another more than Jesus Christ for we will not be worthy of Him

So happy to see Mormon stories getting in touch with average KZread length content again. So many episodes go unsent by me because I know my friends won’t watch a 3 hour video

@McRambleOn

Жыл бұрын

@mormonstories Yes! Pls link original/source video to YT “shorts”, & also shortened/clipped videos like this, so that those that want to hear and learn more can easily find/watch the longer vid. The YT shorts are great! But SO many times I’ve tried to find the vid that the clip was derived from, then gave up… & have seen others frustrated abt the same thing. Keep up the good work! Thanks for working to shine light into darkness- its awesome what y’all are accomplishing!

@davidparker9676

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely! 3+ hours of video is quite the demanding commitment. Hopefully the topics either get edited to have a highlight reel or bite sized clips of reasonable lengths.

@sheliabryant3997

Жыл бұрын

Some of us like long formats, too 💜

@lorinapetranova2607

Жыл бұрын

I listen to some stuff besides Mormon stuff in segments. Especially educational lectures that nearly take notes. Don't let other ppl decide what to listen to just bcos. Once ppl figure out how to manipulate others.... bleah. Many blessings of a nurturing nature.

@carolecoyote960

Жыл бұрын

I really enjoy the longer versions. So much to learn!

That older gentleman has a beautiful soul. He knows something's not right about that "secret ceremony." He quoted some beautiful Biblical scripture, too.

This man being interviewed understands the true meaning of being a follower of Christ. It’s wonderful that he saw through the nonsensical man-made “rules/laws”, and is able to have his own personal relationship with the Lord. As it should be.

So beautiful what the gentleman said at the end. He basically said the church can’t be true because of its false hierarchy system. But only God himself is true and pure. And, there’s no man in mankind who is more deserving than another for any reason. All those who love God are a child of God, the same.🥰🙏🙌❤️🔥

Mr and Mrs Mattsson seem to have the love of Christ both for God and for their fellow humans. They can have assurance without any second anointing.

@lisagrace6471

Жыл бұрын

Exactly- Christ IS the mediator. We need no person, man or woman or church, for access to him. None. He loves us so much.

@petrairene

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. As long as you love people, you can bless them with that love. No special permission, special church ritual, spiritual belief or whatever needed at all.

@lisagrace6471

11 ай бұрын

@@MattTheBandGuy yes!!! That is a blessing- I am only BARELY coming to learn of this and experience it for myself- and it is amazing- it feeds you like being in a natural spring- it is AWESOME :)

I bet my parents were second-anointed secretly by my dad's good friend Richard Scott. My parents certainly became a bit more lax as they aged (about R-rated movies, eating out on Sunday). This anti-egalitarian kind of thing is appalling to me, one of two black sheep in my family of two adopted children.

@TEAM__POSEID0N

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, it kind of puts that "God is no respecter of persons" claim in a different and dubious light. But when you realize that it's just a grown-up version of a Primary or Sunday School teacher putting a gold star sticker on the foreheads of especially well-behaved children, it's kind of hilarious. Like: "Hey, donate millions and millions of dollars to the General Authorities' slush fund and/or contribute thousands and thousands of hours of uncompensated labor to building up the business...er...church and you too can get a free foot washing from an apostle who will tell you that your exaltation reservation in invisible heaven has been confirmed."

@aspieangel1988

9 ай бұрын

The second anointing doesn’t change beliefs. I have millennial friends who had second anointing and they are still very open about things so I’m guessing your parents may be highly religious. Spiritual members view things very differently than the religious members. The religious members are the ones who act cultish and strict. The spiritual members act like actual Christian’s.

It's NOT losing "faith" it's WAKING TF UP

@hopeinHim5160

27 күн бұрын

Honest Guck, Amen!!

@hopeful6157

11 күн бұрын

💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯

@hopeinHim5160

11 күн бұрын

Yessss!!🎯❤️‍🔥

As members of the bishopric we were instructed to never discuss the Second Anointing with members.

@boysrus61

Жыл бұрын

Safe to say as members of any Bishopric, unless you watch John Dehlin, next to nobody knows anything about Second Anointings and what happens there. Why wouldn't they let every member know, every family member know, every sibling know about this so that they too can strive for this.

@user-og2wt3le4j

Жыл бұрын

@@boysrus61 They would all want the ceremony. Many of the Seventy have not had the second anointing. It is also not needed for exaltation. So the church continues to keep it on a need to know basis.

@melanieahrens6739

Жыл бұрын

⁠@@user-og2wt3le4jIt seems to me it would be easier just to explain what the requirements are. That way it doesn’t result in a faith crisis when you realize your church has been hiding things from you.

@downy1202

Жыл бұрын

@@user-og2wt3le4jwhy would it need to be need to know basis. Transparency in the church of Christ shouldn’t be something needed to say. It should already be. No secrets.

@jamestrek2570

Жыл бұрын

@@user-og2wt3le4j if it is not needed for salvation then why is it necessary at all??

So secretly Mormons believe they can be unconditionally given blessings from God independent of their faithfulness but publicly they teach exactly the opposite and even criticize other denominations for believing the same. WOW -- what a joke.

@lisagrace6471

Жыл бұрын

Oh wow that is PERFECTLY well said!! Thank you!!!

@lisagrace6471

Жыл бұрын

And they believe that unconditional salvation is only for the elite....Side note. A big problem I have is their claim that there are no paid clergy that I heard in sunday school all my life and how harshly disparaged other churches were for having collection plates...well gee- at least they are honest and out in the open about their requests...and aren't collecting generous paydays (most churches anyway).

@mutestingray

8 күн бұрын

It does raise an interesting “issue” (at least in my Christian worldview): does God choose people simply because He can? Simply because He loves this person more than others? There’s some passages from Scripture that would indicate yes. Even the Blessed Virgin Mary is specifically chosen by God (though with good reason given her holiness and love, in turn, for God). But still, she is chosen. Others are not. I’m of the belief of God’s infinite love for all people, but this is indeed a stumbling block for me. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I guess you could argue that I’m being selfish and presumptive that I deserve any of God’s love which I’m not, it’s just a very strange thing to think about. This second anointing business definitely has notes of that but presumably without the obvious virtues and qualities that would go along with someone chosen for the greatest of the celestial kingdom. Absolutely no offense to Hans, but he’s just a guy. We’re just people and, yet, we say with full confidence that they’ve attained something before it has even happened. Which kind of goes back to my original point: are these people just chosen because God wants it and that’s what it is? There’s very little we can do to attain Heaven or “glory”, that’s what I was taught, except by the salvific work of Christ. But surely there has to be some cooperation. I think this thing is secret because it might be a bad look on this highest god if later on one of his exlect turns out to be pretty bad. In my secular, cynical brain, this is another layer of prestige to add on to someone with money. If you’re a good boy, maybe you’ll get the God+, but if you’re really good, you can get God+ Max 4K with Enhanced Bitrate. Pardon my ramblings. A lot of think about.

What an incredibly sweet and loving couple.

I learned about it on my mission in the 80s. Seemed like a very powerful ritual. Also felt like it was something I’d never get being such a sinner myself (eyeroll with irony since I never considered myself more or less than any other striving member). Now I’m like, I think I’ll pass.

The key to all this for me was the statement “successful and rich” are granted this “honor”. It all about money with this cult. How better to get rich old people to donate large amounts of money to the cult? How anyone can believe this BS is beyond me.

Please get Alyssa on from Married at First Sight Australia! She is from the U.S., living in Australia and was raised LDS. Her (and her family I believe) left the church when her dad came out as gay. She was just on the latest season of Australia’s most popular reality show and her past with Mormonism was part of her story, and she stands strongly with her dad outside of the church now. I think that would be a really interesting episode that lots of people would be interested in! I suggested it to her today and she replied saying she would be interested!!

@Hallahanify

4 ай бұрын

Is lds well known about in australia?

@ellak1382

4 ай бұрын

@@Hallahanify not really. People know of mormons and I think mainly lump them in with Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Wow! I was a member for 35 years and had not heard of this before!

I was a member, but never made it to this 2nd anointing ceremony. I left the church after divorce, but hearing this and looking back on my time as a member, It looks more and more like Scientology or other cults.

@photosbyfranci

23 күн бұрын

Yes Mormonism is a cult just like Jehovah Witness's. Stick to Plain simple Christianity and just believe the Bible and not add on books.

Therefore I Say unto you, second anointing is no more a secret in the Mormon Church. 🥳

@robinedwards8796

Жыл бұрын

*Verily I say unto you 😂

@jessedewell

Жыл бұрын

​@@vrcodemastersso should we assume that everything that Jesus does in the Bible the Mormon church is still doing with their members current day?

@jessedewell

Жыл бұрын

​@@vrcodemasterspeople may also get the impression that it is a secretive ceremony because EVERY person who has experienced it says the same thing. They are not even allowed to share it with their children. So that might explain why some people have the point of view that the church is secretive about the ceremony. If you are a member I would venture to guess that a significant portion of your ward would not be able to explain what it is if you asked them.... I was raised in the church until just about 18 years old and was not aware until just recently and I am in my 40s and my mother is a devout member who works in the temple weekly

@bluehedgehog123

Жыл бұрын

😂

@danielmeakin

Жыл бұрын

@@vrcodemasters He said unless I wash you you have no part with me. The foot washing is emblematic/symbolic not literal. What's necessary is that we are washed by Jesus through faith/trust/belief in Him. That this "exaltation promising" ordinance is reserved for long time devout members is a mockery. Peter hadn't even begun his ministry when he received the foot washing. The washing we need is freely and instantaneously available to all who put their trust in Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. You don't need to wait for an imposter to secretly call you to an idolatry center to be guaranteed eternal life with God. John 3:16.

This ceremony is the reason why I eventually left the church. I was so adamant that I wanted to have my Calling and Election Made Sure that at the age of 25, I devoted my life to making that happen. I took a calling at the temple as an ordinance worker (women are given the priesthood so that they can perform these ordinances, but we're not allowed to talk about it with members) and eventually became the chapel coordinator for the Provo Temple. I would study daily from the church's history, the doctrine, and eventually, it just made me have more and more questions. My mission president had asked me to write my questions down to have answered after my mission. I'd been doing that since I got home and my questions became a 3-inch 3-ring binder full of questions.

@guatobean2869

6 ай бұрын

Well there you go smh

@denafisher981

5 ай бұрын

I am absolutely livid right now. I left the church 15 years ago. But spent the prior 40 years of my life being devout, magnifying my callings, doing everything right...and this is news to me. Yet one more piece of information validating my choice to leave the church.

@lotion_laura

4 ай бұрын

Some things you aren't supposed to ask for, like asking for a calling.

@user-nn4rt3ek8p

3 ай бұрын

Joseph Smith was a fraudster, the LDS was built upon lies the first vision, polygamy, temple ceremony, etc. I regret being a part of this church for almost three decades...

ISuch a practice so much resembles men's lodges and their degrees and secret ceremonies. Do we really believe a ritual will protect us from the consequences of our lifelong actions? If God is such, He is a respecter of persons and unjust.

@TEAM__POSEID0N

Жыл бұрын

Yes. And knowing how the "gift of discernment" really works with the "Prophet" and "Apostles" means understanding that the only people who will get the "Second Anointing" will be people who make themselves known to the Prophet and Apostles and impress them. The "Holy Ghost" isn't going to whisper in the ear of a church leader and tell them to offer the second anointing to a very pure, righteous, humble person in a remote town in Argentina quietly engaging in countless acts of virtuous service to people in need, without seeking any praise or attention for it and often rendering service anonymously. Nope. It's going to be offered to famous, high-profile people who quite noisily and in the spotlight donate massive amounts of money to the Church or rise to prominent positions of leadership as a result of being skillful in producing statistics (baptisms, membership retention, tithing revenue) that impress the top management. Nothing particularly Jesus-y about it.

I heard enough . Really ? Giving humans the status of a God in the after life ? Then the entire church is kept in the dark about " the second anointing " for the very first wealthy and powerful. Sorry but this sounds more like a cult .

@Genna01

Жыл бұрын

It is a cult

You'd think they would also sell merch related to the Second Anointing, like a real platinum temple recommend card that has no expiration date, temple garments with the symbols (square, compass, level) made of platinum and bearing the logo on the back: "Secunda Unctionis". Some bumper stickers and t-shirts with fun messages: "I went to the temple and all I got was guaranteed exaltation and future godhood" and "What do you get for a person who has almost everything? Everything!" and "If you only knew what my feet have been up to...." and "Licensed to do everything but kill (and there's some wiggle room on that)".

@jeanettel4840

Жыл бұрын

HA damnit you just made me snort laugh at work.

@Hallahanify

4 ай бұрын

Do they sell merch at the temple?

@TikiStanford

3 ай бұрын

@@Hallahanifyfrom what I remember, but my memories are from 3 decades ago, the church sells all the things you need to go to the temple, temple specific clothes, garments, etc. I left as a young teen, so I’ve only been to the temple for baptisms for the dead, but I remember my grandmother needing to buy these things. There’s always something to buy, and it starts young. I’m not sure what they call the different kids classes, but I had to save up to buy my first ctr ring. The money saved in my handy dandy savings bank that taught about tithing. It had 3 sections, tithing, savings, and spending. In that order. Brainwashing from the beginning.

The reason people are upset is because normal people are submitting names of others whom they deem worthy to have this second anointing. How can you not be upset about it when all your life you grew up being told you had to “endure to the end” and yet they’re just giving this away like a golden ticket to the chocolate factory! I was NOT happy when I learned about it from Tom. Bless his heart. Thank you for posting this shorter version. It’s very helpful!

Listening him talk about his wife blessing him was quite moving as he spoke. I wondered how many other husbands would appreciate a blessing from their wife…

@solarpower1970

Жыл бұрын

About as much as your wife would appreciate you giving birth probably.

“Let’s just focus on the basics and worry about that later….” Wow. We had been ‘conditioned’ to ‘police’ each other really well, haven’t we?! It amazes me how the leaders of any organization, can get us all to police ourselves and each other, to ‘stay in line’….’don’t look over there’, etc. After waking up from this stupor, I WILL look ‘over there’….I WILL do my best to pay attention to ALL of the details! And when I ever get told, “Don’t pay any attention to that man behind the curtain!” I’m going to rip that effing curtain down! And I’m LOOKING!

Soo glad you're talking about this. It's the weirdest thing and while they try to now be transparent about it, it was hush hush and I didn't know about it until I was 30

Joseph Smith took the feet washing from the Catholic Pope. On the same date, every year, the Pope washes the feet of his staff. It's a sign of humility.

@melanieahrens6739

Жыл бұрын

The Pope took it from the Bible. Jesus washed his disciples’ feet and instructed them to do likewise.

@karencross3815

Жыл бұрын

​@@melanieahrens6739Only in the gospel of John. Even apologetic scholars admit the author of John wrote a sectarian script that is a literary expansion of christology. It was penned late 1st century CE. to fight docetism.

@melanieahrens6739

Жыл бұрын

@@karencross3815 Whether it’s true or not, that’s why the Pope does it.

@melanieahrens6739

Жыл бұрын

@@karencross3815 Sorry, didn’t mean to be rude. I didn’t know that about docetism. I had forgotten this particular story and intended to quote the story of Mary washing Jesus’ feet with her hair.

@dianethulin1700

Жыл бұрын

Yes because people in the Middle East are Bedouins who wear sandals and travel great distances. Makes sense to treat them with hospitality. Feet are taboo in the ME and so to wash someone’s feet is to humble oneself before another

What an incentive for them to move planets to make sure their heirs & descends STAY IN!! And the "secret" makes it exclusive & perpetuates the "oh, how wonderful are we?!" mindset. $$$$$

@SingSirenMae

Жыл бұрын

100 %❤

I never heard of this. I was in the church for 9.5 years. Wow!

@charlesmendeley9823

Жыл бұрын

It is the same with Scientology. Many lifelong ,embers have not seen the crazy doctrine Tom Cruise and other higher ups go through of they do not reach that level.

"The Second Anointing" ... in short, for all those with wealth and power in the LDS Church who couldn't get it right the first time. Ridiculous.

@joybischoff9558

Жыл бұрын

I know more than one couple who received this who were not at all wealthy or powerful.

@joybischoff9558

Жыл бұрын

@@vrcodemasters Well put. Since Jesus instituted the washing of the feet at the Last Supper, it shouldn't raise eyebrows.

@timothyblack3322

Жыл бұрын

⁠@@joybischoff9558, During Holy Week, on Holy Thursday Mandatum, the Ceremony of Foot Washing Rite. It is a reminder that we are of the Body of Christ and as such, His followers, we too are called to serve others in the spirit of humility. As Christians, it is our duty to serve others in our community and in the world. This Rite is one of Christ’s final acts before His crucifixion. Holy Thursday also celebrates Christ institution of the Eucharist aka the Sacrament of Holy Communion, and the Sacrament of the Priesthood. 🎚

@tomsmith2013

Жыл бұрын

@@vrcodemasters Excuse me? I think you might be confusing Christ with Paul. Jesus said: "LOVE one another as I have loved you."

I'd love to know if any low income people have received their second anointing... Seems like wealth and power are part of the requirements. What a croc.

@solarpower1970

Жыл бұрын

Ha ha ha, he said with zero proof. Besides what's wrong with financial security coming with following God?

@opalined

9 ай бұрын

​@@solarpower1970this is such a warped reply to a question of equality of access to sacred rites. No one thinks that a wealthy person isn't going to be included. But where is the sense of duty to include the anyone in the entire faith, regardless of wealth,who qualifies spiritually for the rite? Giving rites (especially a ticket to heaven, no holds barred) based on money isn't how any church, temple, mosque, etc... works. It's how cults work.

Essentially this is how the church works. Not important for your next step - it's sacred not secret. Essentially most everything in the church works this way....

I wish you would bring Tom Phillips back … would like to know how he’s doing

@mormonstories

Жыл бұрын

Me too.

It’s a shame what the Joseph Smith religion has done to so many wonderful people.

What an incredible story.🌹🌹🌹

Sounds beautiful to me. Maybe it's part of the Millennium work and those already anointed will be helping others receive the beautiful blessing. I hope to adore in that day!

7.19.23:. "Rest assured that there is nothing new in theology except that which is false." - C. H. Spurgeon

Mind blown. Only heard of the second anointing once before. When I was an LDS missionary, it a fringe topic brought up by other missionaries. I just listened with wide eyes, I had nothing to add to the conversation.

Exaltation is eternal salvation which is the “gift of God” (Rom. 6:23 ). He even specified that it is a “free” gift (Rom. 5:15 -18). We do not have do to earn these anointed. It is a gift from Jesus Christ. FREE!

Elitism is such a Jesus thing! right?

@charlesmendeley9823

Жыл бұрын

And so is building shopping malls and investing in stocks and real estate.

@sjenson6694

Жыл бұрын

And shell corps and hiding abusers from the law..

What cult worth the name would be complete without SECRET RITUALS? 😂😂

So CULTY! Insanity times 10!!!

Thank you for this normal length video. Im so interested in the topics you discuss but find it hard to stay engaged in 2 to 4 hour discussion. Would love to see more like this lenghth!!!

I always knew about the second anointing in the temple. I worked in the temple, cleaning at night. Had to get the holy of holies ready. In the sealing room. The marriage had to be sound.

@gridspir

Жыл бұрын

?

I've been a member my whole life and I just barely found out Joseph and Hyrum were apparently descendants of Jesus Christ 😂 I was taught he was a Levite and that's supposedly why he could baptize Oliver Cowdery before being baptized himself. Who knew the Mormon church was really 19th century The Da Vinci Code

@hollayevladimiroff131

5 ай бұрын

A fantasy!!

@ValerieGriner

3 ай бұрын

That's preposterous! It's even blasphemous to put those names in the same sentence with Jesus Christ!!!

I would like to say I am appreciative of the long format content here. It is of historical importance and will be used for examination in the future. I may not listen to every minute of every conversation, but I appreciate the ability to go back and pick up where I left off when I need to. Most often the extra time spent offers important perspective that otherwise might have been missed. Could there be shorter edits? Of course! But would you gain the same insight? For me, no. I prefer the longer, slower to digest content. I appreciate the slower approach provided here.

@backthebusup

Жыл бұрын

I totally agree

@Larissa-eo3pt

Жыл бұрын

Same here. If someone wants to send a friend the highlights, timestamps exist.

What if there’s a third anointing? 😳

Hans seems to have such a humble heart.

Its very similar to the "being made" ceremony in the mafia. It rhymes a lot.

@lisagrace6471

Жыл бұрын

I do not know what that is- never heard of it.

@DanielJesseLife

Жыл бұрын

@@lisagrace6471 Then I suggest you do a lot of research into "becoming a made man in the mafia" and the Mormon church's "second annointing". Quite the rabbit hole.

The upward mobility is in most Large corporations is practiced similarly. Some secret societies also have hidden rankings of higher standing. The Mormon religion was modeled after Freemasonry.

Mormon history and theology Never gets boring 😂

@jackibrown5215

Жыл бұрын

It’s like a comic book. Fictional.

I'll never be rich enough to buy the chance to be a God have an apostle get on bended knee to wash all my sins off so pray for all our souls after this life is done his kingdom ain't for us sinners or an unsuccessful son

@ValerieGriner

3 ай бұрын

Jesus sought the sinners...not the rich temple goers. Jesus is humble, kind and forgiving. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

I’m not Mormon (I’m Catholic), but yesterday I toured the brand new temple in Moses Lake, WA. As an appreciator of architecture, I was absolutely amazed of the beauty of the temple. You just do not see any buildings built like that these days. They told me even the carpet was custom made. I also immediately felt an immense sense of community the Mormons there had that I really wish existed in the Catholic Church. However, I have heard that there was secret beliefs in Mormonism, and a Mormon family I grew up knowing left the church after apparently learning about them. So I asked one of the guys outside the temple if there was any secret ceremonies, and he said there aren’t any. But when I got home I just started researching temples on Wikipedia, and low and behold it has an article about the Second Anointing, which it even says is not known to most Mormons. While it’s certainly not as secretive or reality-shattering as Scientology’s OT3 (the Xenu story), it’s still analogous in that few church members even know about it, and I wonder if that Mormon family I knew left when they found out about it or possibly went through it.

I’m a convert, I went to a private Lutheran school 4-7 th grade, it was at the school that I learned how the Lutheran church came to be. I don’t remember the year but the Catholic Church started selling pieces of paper that guarantees that you would get into heaven. Luther didn’t think that was right and broke away from the Catholic Church. I agree with him. You are responsible for any sins you commit right up until your last breath. Endure to the end.

@evanwildermann7034

3 ай бұрын

I mean it's a complete parallel to jesus in the temple and he was massively indignant

I know how being raised in a religion can allow you to gloss over so many weird things, but this religion just keeps getting stranger and stranger. It’s almost like Joseph Smith sat down, tried making the most obscene/ridiculous story, and then just sat back and started laughing to himself at how many people fell for it.

@ValerieGriner

3 ай бұрын

Right! That's exactly how I feel!

Finally a video under 3-4 hrs! As much as I love your full podcasts, do you know how rare it is for the average person to have that much time? We need shorter videos like this as well as the long ones.

@lorinapetranova2607

Жыл бұрын

Try listening in segments. I do. Even educational vids from foreign countries I listen to in segments. There's a lot to absorb that's worth it. Impatience is not a virtue. Making n taking time to learn and absorb matters. Many blessings of inner peace for me and you. 🌼🦋💙

@eileenemmagiles5708

Жыл бұрын

I listen the the podcast in sections.

@sjenson6694

Жыл бұрын

Too many things are pared down and given to us in small doses. I prefer to have the full depth of the discussion and if someone is short on time they can review it as many times as it takes. The 3 hour podcast about how the priesthood was made up was fascinating in the level of detail and history I hadn't heard anywhere else and sure never learned about as a cult member..

This is what's so damned confusing about religion and cults. I am a spiritual person, I've felt god and experienced beautiful things. When you experience something that you are basically entitled to as a human person in the toxic setting it messes you up! You know that experience is good and beautiful and true but it becomes almost impossible to separate one from the other. You can have those beautiful experiences, without religion. I believe that god gives those gifts and experiences freely and generously to us. I am so damned glad I resigned my Mormon church membership this year, I will never regret it. Only took me 50 years to come to my senses.

@evanwildermann7034

3 ай бұрын

Amen it takes courage what does it profit to gain the whole world but lose your soul

@evanwildermann7034

3 ай бұрын

If god is with us who can stand against us

Yes. My Wife's family founded the Mormon Church.

I love being Catholic again. We don't have secret sacraments.

@user-bw3fl7fj9w

Жыл бұрын

You were catholic then Mormon and now catholic again??

@KingPoseidon02

Жыл бұрын

@@user-bw3fl7fj9w yes.

@mienfoo123

Жыл бұрын

I'm catholic too. My friend is a cradle mormon and I spoke to him about these secret ordinances and he wouldn't talk to me about them. He did the usual "It's sacred not secret" thing, and what I replied back to him was "In my church, the most sacred event is the consecration of the Holy Eucharist. It's not kept from people because the Eucharist is how everyone is saved. Jesus wants you to openly go and receive Him. So if you claim these ordinances save people, why would God hide it from His children, whom he wants so deeply to be with?" He couldn't answer me directly and the more he talked through hoops the more sad it made me. Explanations leading nowhere, no concrete points or sources to validate it, and denial over how any of it could be false or misleading. I pray that his eyes will be opened some day :(

@TEAM__POSEID0N

Жыл бұрын

That you know of..... (cue maniacal laughter with heavy reverb). That's the thing about secret things. We only know about the secret things that people/institutions fail to keep secret, and then assume that nothing is ever successfully kept secret. How much is really known about what goes on in the inner recesses of the Vatican? You may be right, but until very recently most (99%?) of active Mormons had no idea that any such thing as second-anointing sacraments were being performed in their temples during off hours. Probably the majority of them still don't know or have any clue.

@charlesmendeley9823

Жыл бұрын

Did you ever take part in a conclave then?

Spot on Anything weird is not of God. Amen Bless their hearts for having enough wisdom to RUN!!

Very well said, the idea that there is a “most high,” and the last shall be first… certainly does not match with having higher levels in heaven or among believers.

I remember my dad coming home all thrilled one day, telling me that he had his "calling and election made sure" that day in the temple. I was in my 20's... my parents were in their 60's.

@lotion_laura

4 ай бұрын

I thought your parents weren't supposed to tell anyone.

I heard of "having your calling and election made sure" in seminary but not much was said about it.

Joseph Smith taught that Jesus himself would appear and confirm the sealing. Well, no Jesus ever shows up, bodily, as Joseph Smith taught. Problem today is no Jesus, and then the recipients are asked who they think should receive the 2nd E. The wife washing the husband’s feet gives her claim on him for a resurrection. It’s amazing that most Mormons have no idea about the doctrines that were taught by Joseph Smith. Start with Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, edited by Joseph Fielding Smith. The Joseph Smith papers, Journal of Discourses.

@sheliabryant3997

Жыл бұрын

angelamurphy: thx for mentioning wife's dependency upon husband for resurrection!!!?? This is ABSOLUTE BLASPHEMY! Denies CHRIST is the HUSBAND of EVERY SOUL. To me, this is most horrible of all js's folly & the fact it is confirmed in the 2d dip is a TRUMPET BLAST that mormon- ism does not worship Jesus of HOLY Scripture. 👹 👹 👹 👹. HELLFARR!

@hollayevladimiroff131

5 ай бұрын

Agree, they are very ignorant of their own doctrine, the doctrine of Joseph Smith the 33 degree Freemasons, where Mormonism is derived.

One of the many problematic aspects of this second anointing business is its intrinsic elitism. It's very "Old Regime": it consecrates a Mormon nobility of Kings and Queens vs. the commoners. Queens are allowed to bless like male priests, but the common females cannot; the commoners are subject to an ad hoc ecclesiastical legal jurisdiction, the anointed are given immunity. JS was a genius of control and influence.

Amazing. So everyone needs 2 interviews for a temple recommend. But on the say so and recommendation of someone else who can’t possible know all about you. You get the golden ticket to the Celestial kingdom. Yes that makes total sense.

Imagine if the temple had no ceilings. Don’t all buildings have them? …I’ll leave lol

The # 1 rule about fight club…. Hahahhah

So, it's like The Giver - there's something only a small minority of the group can ever know.

26:50 I felt the spirit with what he said in the end. Forget titles, I’m a child of god and I love it.

thanks for this video john! sometimes i get overwhelmed by the length of regular podcast episodes, so this is really nice to be able to watch and become more educated about some of these issues

What about the THIRD anointing?

@pamelamarie137

Жыл бұрын

😂

@badmiddens

Жыл бұрын

That's the one where they go, "This little piggie went to market..."

@matthewroberts3125

Жыл бұрын

Or the FOURTH...?

@charlesmendeley9823

Жыл бұрын

This is probably reserved to the Q15. In this ceremony, Nelson and Oaks tell you that polygamy is still a thing in the LDS church.

I have watched so many of these podcasts; maybe this is the best. This man brings up an interesting topic--those feelings in the temple, are they real? From the church, or from Christ? What if you still feel them, even on the outside? Often I have contemplated that. True-blue great people here--they are greatness on steroids, and I will bet they wind somewhere higher than any of those others still thinking they have it made. We surely wondered back in the day about the second anointing--hush-hush topic; now we know.

@realcanadiangirl64

Жыл бұрын

I believe the Holy Spirit can work and be present in a person even in situations like these if the person is truly seeking a relationship with Christ

@erstwhile3793

Жыл бұрын

The strong emotions Mr Mattson describes feeling during the ceremony, throw into relief an aspect of de-programming from Mormonism that is really tough; the way that the church co-opts our strong emotions for it’s own program. Strong feelings like anger, despair, overwhelming grief, are in various degrees used to support the program of “sin” and need for “atonement”. Which, of course, also helps generate deep roots in our minds, in terms of how we regard ourselves. And of course, feelings like the ones Mr Mattson is describing, of powerful love, attachment, dedication, elevation, and reverence, are claimed by the church as proof of it’s own truth claims and authority. A still-believing Mormon might hear Mr Mattson’s description of his experience and have their own deeply felt experience of the “truth” of this ceremony and of the temple, and of the church, itself. It’s an autonomic, hardwired response. The over-coupling of strong feelings with the church’s validity is so deep and so pervasive, I can feel it thrumming as I listen to this interview, like a tuning fork in my brain even now, some years after leaving officially because the church is simply NOT what it claims to be, and has NO power to heal, but rather helps create, trauma. Amazing.

@mtgnumberone1

6 ай бұрын

@@erstwhile3793 thank you

We wash each others feet every Maundy Thursday open to everyone.

The love he felt is real and powerful. Problem is, it is exploited by the organization. That's the structure of it

@kristibi7971

3 ай бұрын

And that is deeply and profoundly painful. To have your spirit exploited. It causes rage in some.

That’s so crazy that women are then priestesses and can give blessings after this!! I remember the communities of Christ guy saying that women when the church first started would speak in tongues and give blessings and sacrament

Jesus said nothing is secret in his organization and teachings.

OMG I love this couple. He is so spot on. I am so glad I watched the whole interview. I feel the same way he does about all this. He is a brave man.

I came back to the channel after the full interview to see if there was an update and I noticed the full interview is no longer up. Does this mean this bishop's stake president didn't react well to the interview and asked him to have it taken down? Something similar happened to me when I shared a video that had to do with church welfare, my bishop asked me to remove it.

Met a couple of male missionaries at BART, told them I listened to MS. One was nice, the other looked like he wanted to assault me.

Narcissistic to the outer limits!

My ex Mormon friends still believe; even after leaving their cult! That it’s not a secret; “it’s sacred”…. I was always taught; that you share sacred rituals with your community as a child! This way we assist each other’s on Mother Earth 🌍 ❤ Anywho ❤ Much love and gratitude 🙏

@aspieangel1988

9 ай бұрын

It’s not a cult but people label it as such because of the things members believe. I had NDE’s awhile back that proved to me the church was indeed Christ’s church, however that was originally when the church was created. Over time it became cultish because members stopped listening to God. Basically the church is half cult half Christian. It depends on each individual member. The church itself isn’t a cult but the MEMBERS are a cult yes. Those of us who are Christian Mormons left due to the controversy but we still read the Book of Mormon. I’m a spiritualist now personally. I left Christianity and Mormonism and all I remember Jesus telling me is to love one another and that none of the religions in the world are true, that we each have a piece of the truth but it’s distorted and mistranslated and he will reveal all when he returns. He wants us to love each other and stop condemning each other.

@777LadyVenus

9 ай бұрын

@@aspieangel1988 , I had near death experiences as well! I agree with everything you said. We are awakening to the truth and our perspectives are always reaching a higher vantage point for sure. I’m happy Religion is starting to evolve and reconstruct to Jesus Christ teachings as he never wanted to be worshipped nor have patriarchal culture to become so corrupt. I truly believe the laminates will become the true prophets and rebuild Christ consciousness into the Truth and not have cultish mentality. The word Cult in the Egyptian era wasn’t supposed to be demonized. But I guess that’s what the awakening is for to shift our consciousness. Much love ❤️

@as-above-so-below-

8 ай бұрын

I'll tell you why she still considers it sacred. It's not mindless brainwashing that makes her say that. Temple ordinances were probably extremely beautiful and personal for here, regardless of doctrinal validity. The temple and the preparation serves as a really effective strategy in providing people with personal spiritual experience. It was probably emotionally healing and pacifying to her to get to go to the temple because of the amount of personal preparation that it takes and the avoidance of spoiling it for those who have spent time preparing magnifies the entire narrative of personal fulfillment. The 'sacredness' is in the sentiment behind private ceremonies like those done in the temple. It gives the whole thing feelings of 'rite of passage' That's an important part of human culture in general that the many modern societies see as alien and they harvest superstition for them. Even if somebody doesn't believe in any of it, they might still look back on Temple ordinances fondly because they are actually fairly beautiful and harmless and spending time to prepare to experience the beauty that seemed so mysterious the whole time makes it cathartic when that day finally comes. Not all secrets are bad secrets. Some of them are delightful surprises. The endowment ceremony will always be an experience that I thought of as beautiful and that's what makes it sacred to me. That's probably what makes it sacred to her regardless of her current belief system. The temples are buildings full of fine arts, sincere craftsmanship, oratory demonstration and beautiful architecture that we don't see as often in person in the modern era and getting to be able to make the experience personal with secrecy is what adds another layer of value to it. Getting to sort of go on a 'vacation' from the outside world in an environment like that is a manifestation of the peace of privacy that so many people are becoming out of touch with. A lot of members who frequent the temple are usually very calm and positive people for a reason. A lot of members who only get to go to the temple a few times in their life who make effort to do so find the journey of getting and remaining prepared to go efficacious for constant self improvement and internal reflection which are essential the premise and starting point of Christian doctrine. If Eternal self improvement is the goal here, then the temple practices and preparation embody that. For an example of this in a less controversial religious practice, in some areas of Hinduism, parts of their temples are indicative of certain milestones in life and maturation. The exterior of some temples are adorned with carnal and sexual symbolism and many are told that if they can't pass through the exterior without being aroused or at least distracted, they need not enter. Going through an exploration of the value of the material world is a part of maturation and understanding so this adds to the sentimental and symbolic value of their spiritual practice. In Buddhism, Siddhartha Gautama's ascent into enlightenment past all the worldly milestones, Gods, and ceilings of understanding on his way too attainment of Nirvana is a really good run through of the enlightenment culture of his time if you want to find some literature to look into what I'm getting at here by referencing Hindu tradition. In older cultures this isn't so alien. In Western cultures, this is just about the scariest and weirdest thing in the world but Westerners are typically becoming more and more unhealthy psychologically over time and adopting practices that have been essential to human culture throughout all time are something that is extremely helpful to people who are struggling to overcome the various manifestations of modern collective suffering.

@as-above-so-below-

8 ай бұрын

To expound on my reference to some Eastern enlightenment practices, the 'layers' found in their practice have some parallels to the veil in the temple and even some parts of the anointment ceremony before endowment in regards to putting sentimental value into practice, however not necessarily in direct message and teachings. The temple practices of the mainstream church (not the fundamentalists who engage in disgusting sexual misconduct and child grooming within their temples) are innately human teaching practices that many in modern Western culture aren't exposed to regularly that are extremely beneficial. The practice of patriarchal blessing in the church is another example of this in action. In regards to the second anointing, imagine how deeply personal something like that would feel to grow old with your partner in the Church, striving to keep it's teachings and precepts near to your heart to be given one final rite of passage that was kept completely and utterly secret to you your entire life.

It's not secret it's sacred 🤮

Is the Second Anointment the same as your "Calling and Election made sure"? My mom used to always talk about having that designation from the church. I asked her how it could be a sure thing before death, anything can happen between the ceremony and death.

@andrewsuryali8540

Жыл бұрын

It's the same idea as the "once saved always saved" or "eternal security" doctrine in Southern Baptist teaching. Just with a few more steps.

@karencross3815

Жыл бұрын

When I was young in the early 70's, men in testimony meeting would say they had their calling and election made sure. It happened enough to catch this little girl's attention.

@davidparker9676

Жыл бұрын

@@karencross3815 Was it typically geriatric men? I haven't heard anyone claim it about themselves, just say how they look forward to it.

@charlesmendeley9823

Жыл бұрын

​​@@davidparker9676t is either general authorities or rich couples. Probably the Romneys got it. And the Marriotts.

I like the 3 hour videos :) I hope we get some more sprinkled in for those of us who like to tuck in and feast. But this is a nice length too.

One reason it is kept secret, yes secret, is because some who receive it may have not have been exactly honest etc in their day to day dealings. If those who were treated poorly knew of this promise of godhood to a less than honorable person how would that look.

Oh my gosh! Welcome to crazy town. I'm 63 and left the Church. Unbelievable to me that they can break some commandments.

Joseph Smith said you could lie to an infidels and it wasn't a sin.

Interesting they talk about "remembering", she has a better "memory" than he. Fuzzy momo memories are so incredibly common. Even among the lowly members. Something is going on. And some are recalling lost memories. Not lovely reports. Not healthy experiences.

My institute instructor told us about this ordinance in 1982. It wasn't hidden from me in Ohio.

@bonojennett

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, my dad has been in many higher church callings, but when I began discussing the Second Anointing a few years ago, he had no idea. He responded with, "How do you know this is actually a thing? I've been in the church 60+ years and have never heard of it. Are you sure?" You could see the thought process of denial as he spoke.

@bonojennett

Жыл бұрын

We also were taught it in institute around 2010. I learned about it on my mission from my companion (his dad was a mission president at the time) who made it sound like the apostles were "special witnesses" of Jesus Christ and had seen him when they had their "calling and election made sure". He also said his dad solemnly told him to "NEVER ask if someone has received their Second Anointing" (thank you Boyd K. Packer for establishing that). Also, when it was taught in institute, nobody responded when they were asked if they knew what it was. I finally broke the silence, explained the basics of the ordinance and how it seals you up to the highest celestial glory, then asked the teacher if the apostles had LITERALLY seen Jesus Christ. He responded with, "I imagine so, if they were to be special witnesses of him." There's so much perpetuated myth in the church about these things (especially because it is explained so vaguely) that keep members on the hamster wheel of Mormonism.

The mormons are saying you are already a God. Same believe the Egypt kings beleaved.

This was too short. An amazing n precious couple. Breaks my heart to hear such decent folk get bamboozled. Very tender MSP. Thank you to John Dehlin and the crew. Many blessings for being real.

Why secret? Seems obvious. So people can feel more special, more committed because they don’t want to lose their special status. It’s not deliberate (probably) that it’s mainly wealthy members who receive this mark of exceptionalism. It’s simply the unstated prosperity gospel at work in peoples’ minds. The ones who get wealthy and look “right” on the outside; have the right appearance in their person and their lifestyle, strike a chord in the minds of leaders, primed with the prosperity gospel mindset, and seem like examples of righteousness to them. So they get picked for leadership callings. Which brings them to the attention of higher leadership, and so forth. Until someone with the “authority” to decide these things thinks, wow, look how blessed that guy is…he acts just the way I expect him to, says the right things, has the right family, and he’s really rich and influential. Must be super righteous, should be given 2nd anointing. Probably this leader experiences some kind of elevated emotions, seeing the guy act out the Mormon belief system in such a validating way, so that MUST be the HG confirming the notion that 2nd anointing is to be offered. Voila! Another rich guy gets the get-out-of-jail-free card. Although, I don’t think it’s really as much about getting to sin for free. I think it’s more about affirming a sense of exceptionalism, of validating the belief that men, and only men of a certain sort, do, and ought to, rule the world by divine right. I think in a similar way to how each baptism affirms to the congregation that their beliefs are indeed correct, each 2nd anointing affirms for the inner circle that they are truly above the World, separate and special. And here’s where the secretiveness comes in. If it were a common knowledge ordinance, it wouldn’t feel so extraordinary. What is it that we always used to say to each other as Mormons? “I’m so grateful to have the truth”. Meaning, the truth that the rest of the world doesn’t have. The 2nd anointing is just a circle within that circle. No doubt there are circles within the 2nd anointing one, too. Maybe not ordinance related but probably.

I was surprised to hear that nowadays members of the church are not aware of the 2nd anointing and the call and election made sure doctrine. In the late 60's and early 70's as a convert to the church and going on a mission, this was well known, including at BYU among the youth going there after their mission. My observation is that as the church becomes more and more like an evangelical protestant denomination, all of (what I considered doctrines which attracted me then) the more "controversial" doctrines are swept under the carpet, de-emphasized and "hidden" from the average members such as: the Adam-god theory, the blood atonement doctrine, the place of Kolob in Mormonism, the 2nd anointment and having one's call and election made sure, the supposed Adamic language utterances during the endowment ceremony which have been deleted, as well as the other parts unfortunately deleted, the idea that polygamy is still the goal (if not in this life, then in the life to come), etc. Whether true or not, what made Mormonism unique were its challenging ideas and doctrines which made one delve into the esoteric teachings of the Prophet and of the church. As these are "hidden" or left behind, the more the church sheds its controversial teachings, the more it becomes a protestant church, the more it will lose members.

It is strange. Another strange thing is how they force these strong emotional reactions through ceremony with no preparation. This seems like a form of trauma.

@charlesmendeley9823

Жыл бұрын

This idea systems from Freemasonry. When a man is initiated into Freemasonry, he also doesn't know what is going to happen, he is blindfolded, etc., and especially the original rituals were quite frightening, e.g. being pointed at by swords etc. The idea is to create a memorable event, or trauma.

I heard about the Second Anointing in the early 00's from a family member, who was in turn relaying it occurring to an important LDS ancestor. The account included the feet washing by a church apostle in the manner of Jesus at the last supper. My family wasn't the best at keeping secrets, even "sacred" ones. I heard the phrase "calling and election made sure" used quite often over the years as LDS. It was used to describe anyone who was a part of the Willie and Martin handcart disaster and pioneers on the 1880 Hole-In-The-Rock expedition (not to be confused with the Hole'N The Rock cave on the highway near Moab.). My dad used to joke that anyone descended from HITR pioneers (which of course included him) didn't even need to be baptized, and all "Hole-In-the-Rock stock" had their callings and elections made sure just by the virtue of their descending from those pioneers. The Second Anointing sounds just as asinine and a joke when you think about it.

strange but beautiful. thanks for sharing, very bold.

Question: can members who have received their second anointing be excommunicated? I imagine they could for murder. But what about sexual sins or apostacy?

@sjenson6694

Жыл бұрын

It's a phony cult.. so it doesn't matter either way does it.

It's a get outta jail free pass!