Don't let the dealers sell GT cars. Let a special Porsche division sell them directly to the customers.

@samuellang9761

8 ай бұрын

they just need to do what Ferrari does and demand they sell them the car before anybody else. I dont get why Porsche is letting dealers make more off cars then they do

@ayushrudraraju3087

8 ай бұрын

Porsche is going the Rolex way in giving dealers a high level of autonomy as far as allocations go. Think about it: you have to play by their bs rules and buy tons of unecessary stuff just to get something that you really want. I really hope this changes someday.

@genegade

8 ай бұрын

Who do you think is allocating the cars to the dealers?

@ayushrudraraju3087

8 ай бұрын

Well Porsche North America, obviously. So they’re part of the problem too. And I don’t buy their bs about not being supportive of the dealer markups.

@lamakicker69

8 ай бұрын

@@genegadecar manufacturers have to sell to dealerships, by law they can’t sell directly to the customer because dealerships give millions of dollars every year to politicians so they never change that laws.

So glad someone else has spotted that Manny gets EVERY Porsche GT or limited edition car and then flips them a month later. If you do that in the UK where dealers can’t sell for over MSRP you would get blacklisted by Porsche straightaway

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

Couldn't agree more!

@JackMiof

8 ай бұрын

I used to like manny until I realized that he’s just a show off who made his millions ripping people off. He’s a smart man but only cares about the flex and no one other than himself.

@sunnohh

8 ай бұрын

Porsche gets pissy in America if you do that too, unless ur famous

@unclebob4964

8 ай бұрын

@@JackMiof BINGO !!! When I feel like getting a headache, I tune up the “Manny” show…… About a self-indulgent as it can get and still walk.

@velvetblue2285

8 ай бұрын

@@JackMiofplease do tell!! How does he rip people off?? I always felt that way but I was like mmmm I don’t want to hate but these GT allocations definitely made me squint my eyes even more.

Great video. 25 year loyal customer. I gave up on GT allocation, so just wanted to order a basic Carrera S, dealer told me I had to buy some overpriced $10K Porsche design watch just to order at MSRP. That was it for me. Done with the brand.

@RedondoBeach2

8 ай бұрын

Porsche dealers are getting obnoxious. Glad to hear you walked away from the deal. I was at Costco last year to get the tires replaced on my VW GTI. While I was waiting, I walked to the Porsche dealership across the street to browse their inventory, anticipating that I would likely end up talking with a salesman. Apparently their first impression of me was that they saw me walk in from the street. I was dressed in jeans and a t-shirt. I was sweating a little from the walk in the hot sun. I spent maybe 3 minutes in the empty show room and not a single employee introduced themselves to me, not even the receptionist, but they certainly watched me. They paid particularly close attention when I took an interest in the GT2. I thought it was funny. The feeling of being given the cold shoulder was palpable. Walked out without anyone even greeting me. People at the dealership are big time snobs.

@arboghast8505

8 ай бұрын

@@RedondoBeach2 And you think you deserve an audience in Porsche because...? Because you have a VW GTI and you were not really walking as the snobby Porche dealership thought and they totally misjudged your wealth level?

@RedondoBeach2

8 ай бұрын

@@arboghast8505 Pointing out the nature of people in a situation. Not asking for you to be an audience.

@bryanachee7133

8 ай бұрын

They got my buddy with the Porsche e-bike lol

@RedondoBeach2

8 ай бұрын

@@bryanachee7133 What?!?! They make that? Sounds dumber than a left-handed football bat.

Gt owner from Sweden here. Its my first time ever owning a Porsche of any sort, and I walked in to the dealership wanting to buy a 992 Gt3 Touring, and configured one and sent it in and they put me in a "queue". Ive done lots of track days previously, and Ive also attended quite a few of Porsche Events in the past. I also ordered the car to have wintertires, as I had the intention to use the car all year round. They immediately felt that I was going to properly use the car th eBay it should and would attend many of their events, as well as doing loads of trackways in it (not common for most tourings), so half a year later, I got an allocation. The only catch was that I had to buy a 4-door car too, so I got a Macan T that they had in stock. Got the touring delivered in late of may this year and has done 5000 miles already, including 8 trackways. It would have done more, as I had a roadtrip to Europe planned but sickness came in the way. I got the allocation because I gave them the feeling that my car wouldn't be tucked in a garage, but rather used a lot, and I think they're pretty happy with the result. I can only speak for my experience, and it probably differs in other countries, but if you want an allocation, you better convince them that youre going to use it A LOT, and that they're the winners for choosing you.

@damachine3

8 ай бұрын

*use the car the way it should (your voice to text said "eBay") I have four current gen GT cars... I'm extremely lucky!

@RedondoBeach2

8 ай бұрын

@@damachine3 Why do you have 4 current gen GT cars?

@damachine3

8 ай бұрын

@RedondoBeach2 Cuz I was offered them at no premium. Wouldn't you if you had the same opportunity?

@melondoc

8 ай бұрын

You had me right up until "I had to buy a Macan T" 😅

@janalcon13

8 ай бұрын

I work at sales for a Lamborghini dealer and this is the approach I use. If i see the customer is really going to use the car for good, I don't care if it's your first or 10th Lambo, I'll try my best to get you the car you want. Only thing I ask my customers is to reach the minimum target of options I have and that whenever they want to sell the car, I must the first person they contact as it might help me provide a car for another customer who couldn't get it before.

4RS owner here. I’m with you brother. Love the cars but I’m angry at Porsche for letting dealers behave like this. Way to p*ss off customers.

@bendekoning5120

8 ай бұрын

Unfortunately I don’t think they care if they piss off the customers as long as the customers are still buying them. Maybe that’s cynical but…

@feelouxxx

8 ай бұрын

You know, over time these things matter. There’s very little hard logic in buying a $200k+ car, it’s all emotion. And over time my frustration with Porsche is rubbing off on my irrational affection for the brand.

@bendekoning5120

8 ай бұрын

@@feelouxxx I think that's fair. As an enthusiast myself, I hope to buy a 4RS or a 3RS some day, and I definitely feel the frustration that they're being basically being held hostage at ridiculous markups. I have to imagine it's even more frustrating as an actual buyer. I hope to have that problem some day :) I think some people do use "hard logic" in the purchases, however- when they purchase them as an investment- and that's where Porsche has been getting into trouble, as their supply and demand approach has opened a market that allows for crazy markups like discussed. I think the real disconnect that occurs is when people like yourself who are enthusiasts have to compete with people who are only buying the GT/Halo cars as investments, which is a real shame.

The situation in US seems to be out of control. Here in Denmark the tax on cars is so high, that NO dealership dare to ask more than MSRP. I got my brand new GT4RS at standard price.

@goodboy_aqee58

8 ай бұрын

how much is the tax on brand new car in Denmark? here in Indonesia 300% tax and dealer still mark ups 200k usd over MSRP on GT4RS..

@longsleevethong1457

8 ай бұрын

Yeah those countries where it’s 100%+ tax on a vehicle should have massive unrest and protest until the government relaxes tax laws on vehicles.

@andresvidoza

8 ай бұрын

We have a similat situation here where you have to pay tax on tax lol. Luxury tax goods over 100k get a 20% tax and over 200k you pay 10%.

@mortenberg2897

8 ай бұрын

@@andresvidoza I double that: we have 150% tax on cars - and then 25% on top 🤤

@longsleevethong1457

8 ай бұрын

What is the justification for these extraordinarily high taxes?

I tried for YEARS to get a GT3 allocation here in Ontario, Canada. Purchased a CPO GT4 and was told it would be easier to get a GT3 in a couple years time if I traded it back to the dealer. But every time I followed up on it I was shut down and given excuses. Then COVID hit, when I went back to that dealer asking about a 992 GT3 they told me now I'd need to buy 5 cars minimum before even being considered for a GT allocation. I attended all the Porsche/dealer events with my GT4, was very involved in the local car community, and am a true enthusiast. It really sucked that it's a game and they do NOT care about buyers like me. Here's hoping some day I'll actually get one..

@charleshu5752

8 ай бұрын

I asked the same thing, one of the sales at Pfaff location at Vaughan said if i would like to pay 200k for a "deposit" they can get me one. So i walked out and probably never look at GT cars again.

@keithrichards-io5db

8 ай бұрын

I wanted a new gt3- 992-salesman in Markham Ont told me to buy/sell back 3x 911’s each at a $10000 loss then he would put me on list to get the gt3. This was unappetizing to me having that hassle- so I searched around and bought a 991.2 gt3 low miles, still paid $40k over original list. Pain in the ass to get a gt3 - great car but not like buying a new car anywhere I’ve ever experienced

@billnorblat4047

8 ай бұрын

GT4 is a Better car. Don't sweat it. Enjoy that glorious car.

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

The process is inconsistent and ever changing it does seem.

It blows my mind that US dealers can sell brand new cars over MSRP and not get any flack from the manufacturer.

@crispyrat2778

8 ай бұрын

It’s the same thing with everything. Groceries, gas, homes, etc. Just 1st world problems “wHy iS pOrScHe sELLiNg a $300k Gt3rS at $100k over” there is much more to worry about in life than to nag about a dealership upcharging on an extremely hot commodity that is a WANT, not a NEED

@moneyshifters

8 ай бұрын

@@crispyrat2778people may complain about whatever they please.

@rtreyk

8 ай бұрын

its effectively the same everywhere

@senorbart

8 ай бұрын

@@rtreyk no it isn’t.

@rtreyk

8 ай бұрын

@@senorbart oh my bad you only get forced to buy 10 macans, 7 base model careras and 2 turbos

It is difficult if you really want the GT3RS. My dad purchases it at MSRP every two years because he leases five Cayennes for his business, a base 911 for himself and a Macan Turbo for my stepmother. He also keeps all of the GT3 cars that he purchases.

Yep, I'm done paying over to get a car. I did it once, never again. Lamborghini gave me a relatively early allocation for a Tecnica for sticker April 22'. It took ~14 months to get, but zero games and at sticker as agreed and it was my first one from the brand.

@vinceau911

8 ай бұрын

I've been a Porsche 911 owner for 28 years. Purchased a 991 Turbo S several years ago and was looking into adding a GT3 into my collection, the allocation and mark up games made me sick. I ended up buying with a supercharged Performante. Porsche lost a life long loyal customer allowing the dealers to play these games with their customers.

@kifter4254

8 ай бұрын

Lambo doesnt play games? was hoping to get a the new 992 GT3rs but considering this, might have to go for a lambo now

Thank you for making this video. I knew this was going on but not to the extent you guys explained. It saddens me since I always aspire to buy a Porsche but the reality is that I even when I can I probably will not be able to”VIP” enough to get one

Got my GT3 in Switzerland, haven’t been long time or VIP by any stretch of imagination.. had ordered a PTS Targa in 22 and later told my dealer that I was interested if a GT3 became available. Few months later got a call, no hassle, no haggle and paid msrp (well even less, due to Euro to Swiss Francs adjustment porsche does). Seems to me that the dealer games are far more prevalent in North America, UK..

@13asingh

8 ай бұрын

Way less buyers in switzerland than North America.

@ppourfal

8 ай бұрын

@@13asingh simply not the case. 1/ Swiss have a high purchasing power and you must take a trip down the streets of Swiss cities to see the cars being driven 2/ even if there are/were fewer buyers, the allocation would have been adjusted down accordingly

@SpiriTBladE9i6

8 ай бұрын

@@ppourfal That's true, purchasing power in switzerland is high. But if we look at the quantity of buyers, it's much lower than in North America. 8.7M residents in switzerland vs. 579M in north america. Doesn't mean that the ratio between residents and high income individuals in switzerland isn't higher - but the pure quantity of gt buyers is much lower.

@anonym3017

8 ай бұрын

​@@SpiriTBladE9i6do you think the US and Switzerland get the same number of GT allocations? Are you seriously that daft? they obviously don't and adjust for population in a country.

@SpiriTBladE9i6

8 ай бұрын

@@anonym3017 Nobody said that.

A long time owner here in Thailand. Pre-2016 or so, it was not too difficult to walk-in and buy a GT3, or a GT3RS. There wasn’t much demand, and nobody wanted to drive the manual transmission here in bad traffic. It was when the 991RS launched with a PDK that saw sales numbers jumped. Being a small country and a relatively small market, we don’t get many allocations to begin with. Since 991.2 or so, the allocations for special models were never enough plus there are also flippers entering the game in recent years. The only good thing is that we don’t pay over MSRP here, but the price is already 3X more than what the price is in the EU and the US due to import duties.

I work at a Porsche dealership and honestly people fighting over ADM’s are people that just want to flip the car 8/10 times. Mr. Khoshbin is a prime example. I’ll use 911 Targa 4 GTS as example. A Targa 4 GTS can range from 190k-215k and for the most part dealers will ask 15-25k over for one (depending on euro delivery). People will cuss and swear they will never buy one but if you look at the market USED they will sell for 240k-260k and it’s not even a car you speced! It all comes down to choice. Unfortunately dealers will get 3-5 Targa *just an example* and there will be a list of 15-25 people for one. Someone will pay and people who say “PORSCHE CORPORATE SHOULD STOP THIS” don’t realize Porsche themselves create this synthetic scarcity. Porsche is striving to be “the worlds number one luxury brand” and scarcity + customer service is there approach ATM.

I'm new to this game. This reminds me exactly of whats currently happening with Rolex. I'm a GT car owner here. Bought used, paid over sticker. I've bought 2 cars from my dealer and apparently... I might just get my own GT allocation in spring for delivery next year. I'm excited to see if my dealer will stick to their word. Ive only dealt with one dealer up to now. Its the only experience I've had but man reading the comments here is kinda crazy. I hope im not in for a rough one.

@cartergarnon6299

8 ай бұрын

I just got my call from my dealership and detailed it in a separate comment the same time you were writing yours

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

You are good. Until the dealership sells or your sales person moves to a different dealership.😂 Seriously though, congrats!

@blendtecbrah5761

8 ай бұрын

The Rolex market is tanking right now. Gray market stuff is selling for a fraction of peak COVID prices. Panda Daytonas are barely 25-26k now.

I bought my 991.2 3RS in 2020 when everybody thought the world was ending. I intend to drive it until this madness stops or I die lol.

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

Good choice!

Totally feel you - GT cars need to driven and not flipped over. I also wanted a GT3, but for that you need that allocation or buy a Taycan, Panamera and base 911…but I just want one, cause all I can do is drive one at a time anyways 😅

I gave up on my GT3 allocation and bought Huracan and I don’t regret a bit! Flashy, turns heads, sounds better and handles just as good as GT3 if not better.

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

I loved how the huracan performed on track. I’ve considered an STO if it wasn’t crazy money. Although the front end of the 992 GT3 is amazing…

In Australia, yes it’s hard to get a GT car allocation but they cannot charge over RRP. No way in hell I’d be a buyer if dealers were loading the price. I was lucky enough to get a 4RS despite never having bought anything from the dealer and having no prior relationship. Doubt very much I’d have got a GT3 or RS. It seems 4RS was higher volume and lower demand. I’m happy, it’s the one I wanted.

Great discussion. Great video. Keep em coming. (just subscribed)

I would like to share my experience. First time Porsche customer. Walked into the dealership in January of this year, put my name down for a 992 S. In August I got my name forward two positions up the list because those 2 infront of me were suspected flippers. I specced it, paid the deposit and I will be paying MSRP. Good to know that good dealerships still exist. And sorry for the rest who had bad experiences.

@ckworks

8 ай бұрын

would you mind sharing the dealer? I'm in the same boat for a first time Porsche customer.

@wesam7

8 ай бұрын

@ckworks sorry I should have been more clear. I am in the Middle East, so probably not what you're looking for.

Great discussion. And yes, it sticks havokgcto pay over sticker when you plan to keep the car instead of flipping it

Just got a gt3, got a few others before. Couldn’t be happier. Just the process. It’s always worth it.

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

Love it! Congrats!

What you need to do when brands have these issues, is go to the brand directly. I have had this type of treatment from Porsche, from Patek Phillippe and from Audemars Piguet. In all 3 cases I just went to the factory, talked about my intentions and most of all shared the experience I've had so far trying to obtain their products. AP even went so far as to fire staff that they feel violated their brand's image. Don't just roll over and accept these games, bite back!

@johnnychimpo7539

8 ай бұрын

You talked to the factory lol. It was the headquarters and they won’t do shit. You either get the product or you don’t and they are giving it just cuz you call and complain

Just for fun I visited my local dealer in NY on the way home from work, not a SINGLE 911 on the floor, one Cayman, one Boxter. The entire showroom filled with SUV’s and sedans. I know the SUV saved porsche but this is going to kill it in a different way.

@MrTokyo-qx1cp

8 ай бұрын

come visit my dealer on the south shore, I have like 8 gt cars lined up outside, and I just put a pista and two speedsters in the showroom

@acepilot2474

8 ай бұрын

@@MrTokyo-qx1cp But all used with a high markup. I don't think you get the point of this video, Typical Porsche salesperson!

I love the conversation! I would intro with a disclaimer though….there is no substitute though. Honestly it comes down to each dealer, Porsche Calgary is outstanding!

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

Good point!

Loved this video and your perspectives! Subscribed! Thanks

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

Thanks for the sub!

I have been on several lists (GT3 GT$ RS and Spyder RS) for a couple years now because I haven't bought a PCar. I'm pretty sick of the games of the non-moving list or you get bumped if someone is a more preferred customer than you.

Really great video. I'm a South African, and the markup is at times even worse here, because of inflated imports as well. There are 992 GT3's selling for way above gt2 rs money here

Cannot afford a GT car by any means, but I really feel for y'all in the market for them, sounds like an absolute nightmare 😪

I love that you have the b@lls to say this directly from an enthusiasts perspective. Dealers (not owned by any manufacturer) have just become flippers with a first dips membership, the problem is customers HAVE to go through dealers. As a young enthusiast I have realised I likely won’t see any of my dream cars unless I get insider info on the next stock market crash.

@xtnuser5338

8 ай бұрын

I don't like the dealership model, but let's not pretend manufacturers wouldn't take more money if demand was more than they could make, If you held a garage sale, and two guys wanted your old lawn mower, and they started a bidding war between them, you would probably wait to see who offered you the most money. The only reason dealers can jack up a price is because consumers keep proving that they will pay it.

If Porsche were serious, require evidence of 25 track days completed to purchase a GT car. Problem solved overnight.

@HondaExige1

8 ай бұрын

Man buys spots on 25 trackdays and supplies receipts but doesn't turn up, extra expenditure of 6k. Problem not solved.

@Lilfresh103

8 ай бұрын

​@HondaExige1 they could require to see the miles on the odometer before they track and see it after they track it 😅

@HondaExige1

8 ай бұрын

@@Lilfresh103 ah yeah no problem 25 trackdays per car, 2000+ GT cars sold per year, some poor person at Porsche only has to check 50000 trackdays for validity per year 😆

@mg-by7uu

8 ай бұрын

Or make enough cars for everyone who wants one. But demand would plummet without the artificial supply shortage

@melondoc

8 ай бұрын

@@HondaExige1 LOL yup. However, it can work with just a small change. Require recording of lap times, lowest lap time gets the car 😂

Wow what a great video. I'm subscribing, more videos like this!

Man, this is one of the best videos I have ever seen on YT and the best that summarizes current Porsche issues. I have a GT3, I paid over, and just like you said it didn't even build me a relationship. I love the GT3. I drive it. I track it. I won't sell it. But I am not sure that I will ever buy another if this environment persists.

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

It will improve, I think Porsche is recognizing the problem and attempting adjustments. However, it will be hard for dealers to give up the good times - meaning the process will be slow.

had 5k down for 2 years at my dealer for a gt3. talked about 50k adm, then he gave me my money back few days later. driving tesla now, obviously no comparison. but buying it through an app instead of these shenanigans is breath of fresh air.

I wonder how dealers would feel if the Porsche started adding markups over invoice to them😂

@ChristianCusack

8 ай бұрын

They do it’s called price increases which they just did last year.

Finally a great video!!! Thank you guys!

I'm a nobody who's bought a few ferraris and the new cars are strictly sold at MSRP. The used stuff is indeed sold at market value (and usually sold on consignment so its not even their car) so things like used Pistas are over, but *new* the cars at Lambo, Mclaren, and Ferrari have always been at MSRP during at least the last 5 years in my area (California). Meanwhile Im a repeat customer at a local porsche dealer and right now I'm having to haggle about my wifes Cayenne hybrid allocation just to get it down to MSRP. Insane. Asked about a GT4 RS and they said $100k over and they can get me an allocation. No thanks.

@RedondoBeach2

8 ай бұрын

Wise man to walk away. $100K goes a long way for far more meaningful purchases than a Cayenne. What's your opinion of the Cayenne Turbo? I'm looking online at a 2020 Cayenne Turbo with 36K miles, selling for $97K. It's been for sale for 2 months, marked down from an initial selling price of $105K. Thinking that due to the miles and rapid rate of depreciation on the Cayenne, it might be a good deal at $85K if it's still for sale at the beginning of 2024. What are your thoughts?

@chrisnolke

8 ай бұрын

I'll let you rake a ride in mine, Jon, ;)

@Christian-er3cm

8 ай бұрын

that's nuts 😭

4 porsche factory order guy here - Come to Canada. We dont allow ADMs at all. However, unfortunately we did just introduce a 'luxury tax' on cars over 100k CAD (like 70k USD lol) of about 10% or so... SO, its the govt that fx you in the butt and not the dealer.

This conversation would be more fascinating with a regional rep from Porsche to explain the inner workings of allocation for a dealer. As an employee, I got excited that there was gonna be some behind-the-scenes facts. Points that should’ve been spoken on are the size of the community in which the dealership is located, whether they are a Premier dealer or not. The repercussions of selling GT cars out of market across a state or the country. The turnover and timing of inventory for the factory to reward that dealer with more allocations. And the importance of loyalty from the customer to trade the car into a Porsche center and not a preowned business so the car can be certified and marketed back to the public. Some of you are buying GT cars from alternative resources without them being maintained by Porsche trained technicians under the compliance of the required maintenance these cars should have and often don’t get. It also should be said it’s been forecasted there will be a 40% increase in millionaires between 2020 to 2026. there’s not enough cars to go around and clearly a vast majority of them are not Porsche purist or enthusiast. I can’t imagine the lack of inventory a dealer would have selling every GT car at MSRP to the first person interested many of you would be left empty-handed due to the broad dynamic of those that have more than enough money to pull trigger on the 911 without hesitation or planning (like how most of us would buy). I see comments about the ST campaign not realizing that it’s an open ended lease and after paying the cost for the car month-to-month you’ll be paying market value for the car in order to buy it out that doesn’t seem to be much of a solution, and more of a PR tissue for those that complained.

Thank you Zimbrick Madison WI for NOT marking Porsche GT cars up from MSRP, keeping them local and selling to us who actually drive them!

I’m scrapping for a spyder rs right now. It’s nuts. I’m all for enthusiast status validation, if it can be made reliable.

@hbullock

8 ай бұрын

Holy %$&@…I got it! 😳

Nice video. This channel will definitely get some traction!

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

I appreciate that!

I have a 993 coupe since 2014 , Love it never sell it.

The market of flipping is ending … we can already feel it here in Europe .. prices dropping like a hot potato in my hand

@acepilot2474

8 ай бұрын

Lets hope it gets to the US as fast as possible!!

@MW-uy3np

8 ай бұрын

It’s temporary. Once the economy is back on track and with inflation it’s going to be worse than ever. Heck a basic car these days sets you back $60k. It is a shame what dealers are doing. All I know is I track my gt3 touring and will be tracking my gt4 Rs soon. I don’t give a damn about resale and put as many miles on them as possible. I’m the enthusiast Porsche dealers wont sell directly to though. They sell to guys like Manny

@Bgggfdd

8 ай бұрын

@@MW-uy3npI don’t think you understand how economics work and how man over leveraged morons that bought these cars trying to play keeping up with Jones there are out there

I put $5k down to get on the Carrera S list 2 years ago. I still haven't gotten one, but they did get me a GTS 4.0 for sticker. My deposit is for list price, so I can't imagine they're itching to get me my car before the guys that paid over.

I was pissed off when I was told by several dealers why I could not simply buy a new GT4 RS (purchase several other cars, on finance... etc.), but offered second-hand cars at 100k over the list price. Now, I accept it as a way to create a desire for the brand. A guy with a GTS or Turbo can still lust for a 911: there is an incrementally better 911. And, when supply is low, of course, the richest and often those who don't care about driving will obtain the cars.

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

Well said!

He's right about Manny Khosbin. MK (from what I can see over the years of his social media) isnt really a Porsche enthusiast, as much as he's into ultra expensive and rare Bugattis, McLarens,and Paganis...but yet Porsche labels him as VIP and gives him allocations even though they probably know he's just flipping the cars.

@ayushrudraraju3087

8 ай бұрын

Manny’s career as a real estate developer has led him to only buy things that he can flip for a hefty profit. That’s why he only buys hypercars and Porsche GT cars. The only cars I think he’ll hold onto are his one-off Chiron, Huayra, and Speedtail (all customised by Hermes, which now all seem pretty corny to me tbh).

@ayushrudraraju3087

8 ай бұрын

And I think Manny’s local Porsche dealer is also the Lamborghini, McLaren, and Bugatti dealer for Orange County. That probably explains his good relationship with his dealer.

Spot on IMO. As a Porsche fan down in Australia, we do have it slightly better because we don't have dealer mark up on new cars. However, they are beginning to make you jump through hoops to get into the GT products. Demand is super high and our supply is very low.. I had to wait 2 years before receiving a Spyder. If you're not a Porsche customer and want a GT3? Forget about it..

@UselesFlesh

8 ай бұрын

We'll take the dealer mark up over the lux tax down here anyday 😂

Kind of hard to know what to believe these days. Especially watching a guy ( Jeff Camara) from Boston and moved to Cali and got his GTS in two months. Not allocation, but his actual order delivered.

@MIDOAMG

8 ай бұрын

A GTS is not in the family of GT cars as far as I'm concerned. A GTS you can easily go in and order, but good luck trying that with a GT car.

@Wheel.Estate

8 ай бұрын

@@MIDOAMG not, not at all. But there have been people waiting over a yr for one.

Between with how hard it is to get an allocation and the markup the dealers want to add, I've decided I'll get used even if I have to rebuild the car some.

@xtreme571

8 ай бұрын

I've been looking for few different models and I see the used ones show up 30-50k above invoice, with less than 1k miles on them. Such a shame that people who don't really care to keep the car are taking allocations, then just selling and profiting off them.

I got extremely lucky and purchased a 2016 GT4, ordered new from my local dealer. Paid list which was a super deal at the time. I have kept it mint, only 4500 miles because I have wanted a GT3 and we’re going to trade the GT4. Living on LI NY we have 5 Porsche dealerships near me, I can’t even order a car, can’t even get on a list. All the GT car allocations are “ already taken”. It’s crap, I have 4 Porsches, I am a PCA national instructor, I am an enthusiast, yet most of these cars go to investors, get sold sold over and over for exorbitant prices. I am about done with Porsches, there becoming Ferrari.

@michael-masi-2021

8 ай бұрын

What is PCA?

@racekar80

8 ай бұрын

Porsche Club of America

The thing is, GT-cars aren't actually that rare anymore. Back in 996/997 era it was about 2000 cars for GT3 & around 1000 for GT3 RS. Even the 911R was still under 1000 cars. Compare that to the 991 Speedster, 992 Sport Classic, 911 Dakar or 911 ST which were at least close to 2000 cars per model ( apart from Sport Classic ) for a "limited edition" car. Only source I can find was that there's about 4000-ish 991.2 GT3 RS and 9000-ish GT3s. Some publication also mentioned about 7000 cars for the GT4 RS when the car debuted. The latest GT-cars have generated a lot of hype, deservedly so, but if people could delay joining the hype train and be patient about an allocation, the sooner the "100k over sticker" days can come to an end. At the end of the day, as special as these cars are to drive & experience, 911 GT3s & Cayman GT4s are series production cars, with series production engines, that only make sense on the reasonable MSRP Porsche puts out.

@commanderrussels2612

8 ай бұрын

That's a good point. Does make you wonder if there is a massive bubble waiting to pop. There can be only so many "special" cars. I have a 911 GTS I paid sticker for and I'm just going to drive that for a while and see if things cool off in the market. I think there is also a lot of FOMO about getting the last petrol powered cars because things are moving to hybrid soon (like the next Turbo S will have a hybrid assist motor). My dealer wanted me to pay over for a GT3 and I wouldn't do it, it's not a limited car and the value proposition goes away when paying that much over for it.

The greatest con in all of the luxury car world, is that Ferrari dealers managed to convince their buyers that they have to buy some random number shitty cars (usually used because they make dealers more gross) before they’re “allowed” to buy what they want. You don’t have to do anything, it’s a dealer game that people fell for and now every Ferrari dealer lives by it because it’s made them so much money making fools out of 1%ers.

and btw nice video, I agree 100% on all accounts. Post some more videos :)

Taking Porsche European delivery DOES work as a tick off allocation. For those who don't know, you don't get it for a lower price like the rest of the German brands. You do get a free hotel stay, 2 weeks registration/insurance and if you go to Leipzig to pick up the car, you get a chance out on the track in a Porsche owned car like what you're buying. I think it's worth doing and was considering this for a GT4 when Covid hit and shut everything down there.

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

Are you sure it does? I have been told by 2 GM’s that it doesn’t…hmm.

Pacific Porsche just quoted me 150K over for a 3RS. On to the next dealer, in another state.

GUYS THANK YOU FOR HELPING NEWBIES UNDERSTAND THIA SHT LOL GOOD VID😊

In my case in Spain I ordered an Spyder RS 24 hours after the release and I have my allocation given 20 days ago, January build date and MSRP, no other cars bought from the dealer before.

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

Sounds like a trip to Spain is in order!

Fwiw my dealer sells their mark up specials to another used car dealer they own and treat their long term customers right with access to rare cars at list if you keep and drive them. But I also live in a small market.

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

They are doing it well!

I would never ever pay over stricker. Not even a single penny. Glad in Europe you can get them for MSRP. (Got my Spyder RS for MSRP)

In the UK we don’t pay over direct from Porsche only on the second hand market. We still have the selection process from the dealership which means having a purchasing history with them. Porsche do have to create some sort of a process the way the interest rates have been it would be easy for anyone to get these very special cars. Maybe now the it is more expensive to borrow we will see less of the flippers and more cars going to real enthusiasts if those enthusiast can afford it.

Believe it or not, I got the call 2 days ago for an GT3RS allocation in Feb 2024… don’t need to pay extra to the AD…. so stoked

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

Congrats!

For me to just scratch my head at the 5:50 mark… but I’m privileged I guess. My dad had a 911 in the garage and a 911 race car in the trailer from the day I was born. He bought his first one in Germany in 1981 and he built his first “race car” in about 1992. Club and SCCA racing. He never bought a brand new Porsche and only ever private party. And all of his “race cars” were garage built by himself out of cars that were relatively cheap. He built a “G” class out of a 993 C2s (well actually built it from two different wrecked 993’s) for under $30k in 1997. After that car he got into Carrera Cup cars and eventually the 996 and 997 GT3 Cup.

Took a lot of patience and constant communication with 8 dealerships to finally find a car with reasonable ADM. It’s the cars with good options that get held on and rotated through each dealer’s VIP list until one falls through. Sometimes you get lucky and a custom order car doesn’t get sold, but then you are stuck with the potentially poor taste of the customer who ordered it.

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

Were you able to spec yours?

@charlescai9749

8 ай бұрын

@@ignitionontheleft unfortunately, no. It was my first P-car. The good news is the customer who ordered it checked almost every box. Car came in GT-silver with red interior but is now growing on me more every day.

Nice Video!

Just got my call for my ST allocation. I was first on the list, simply because I knew about it coming before the anyone at the dealership and certainly before any of their 918 VIPs, and my particular salesman is awesome. The dealership wants $200k BEFORE the Porsche lease deal, which is a fully pre-paid lease btw. I’m OK with what Porsche is doing but not ok with the dealership. The good news is that #2 on the list for an ST is a 911 VIP and he will be charged the $200k from the dealership. I obviously told my sales guy, who I love dearly, to tell roll up a very specific and elicit message to the owners of the stealership, and to also stick the VIP with the ADM because he’s been getting every car at msrp and flipped them all straight away. They also make you give them back your last GT car, that they made you pay a steep ADM for, only to credit you back msrp on that car. Again, this isn’t the brand, it’s the dealership. I guess I’m a free agent now.

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

It’s a frustrating process, ima still of the opinion we should buy a dealership and run it differently. 😊

@cartergarnon6299

8 ай бұрын

@@ignitionontheleft haha I’m down!

@warhammerfaction

8 ай бұрын

So you got allocated one and then complained about it

It seems like things are better in Europe, but absolutely terrible in the UK and US. In the UK, I've had dealers tell me that 6 cars that you don't want is the minimum to get on the list to maybe get a car you want.

@AdamWardach

8 ай бұрын

And it is way tons of the cayenne & Macan crap rolls on streets.

accurate af, great video

I hate allocations. I believe it should be first come first served for the car at sticker price as the highest price to pay. I personally dont pay sticker or over sticker on new cars. Currently own. 2020 Charger 392 (non widebody) and was looking to upgrade to upgrade to 2023 widebody 392 Charger but dealer was trying to underpay me for trade-in and did not want to come off $5k over sticker. I told them give me my keys back and that they can shove it! Before owning a 2020 392 Charger I owned a 2002 Carrrera C2 for 2 and half years and I wish I have never sold it. Now Im currently trying to improve my life and business so I can get a 2014-2016 Turbo S.

btw there are 911 ST cars already for sale with 250k+ MSRP. In Cali

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

Shocker. Not the good kind either.:)

2022 GT4 owner, I was one of the lucky ones and got an allocation after waiting only a couple of months and without any money to hold a spot in line and I paid MSRP. This model by Porsche sucks for the customer (in my case enthusiast who tracks). Porsche is also cutting production too deep to artificially create exclusivity, to the point that it's hurting their bottom line. The demand far exceeds supply. If I hadn't gotten my allocation so quickly, I wouldn't have waited and would have bought something else I liked instead. I was thinking about selling the car and my dealer said the would blacklist me if I didn't sell it back to them at the price they wanted to pay, which was below market in my opinion. My next car will probably be an Audi or BMW when I decide that I've had my fun with this car.

Dealerships are WAY out of hand.. i mean they are trying to sell mustang 5.0 for 70,000$.. its insane..

seems to me that some customers are paying the dealers a comision on what they are able to flip em for.. I buy it at retail , flip it for 75k profit and give the dealer half of the profit.. Jay said it clearly.

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

What about a raffle based on how many dollars you spend at the dealership.

If Porsche wants their cars in enthusiasts hands and kill flippers the answer is simple. In the press release of the announcement just add the line this is not a limited production run. They like this, because it creates demand. They are scared that no one will want a Porsche if it’s not limited, just for the car itself.

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

Fair point, we really don’t know how many of any of these cars there really are.

I was trying for almost a year to buy a gt3 or gt4 as my daily and my first Porsche but couldn’t get an allocation for a gt4, could have gotten one for a gt3 for $100k markup and could buy a gt4 rs that was in the showroom because guy who ordered backed out, but it was $275k (75k markup). No thanks. Couldn’t even get allocation for 911 GTS at list. Then decided to start small and get a cayman Gts, $20k markup. I lot patience with Porsche and went across the street and bought an M4. I will try Porsche again in 2 years. I would love to buy a Porsche, but not just any Porsche and not a dollar over list.

Imagine going through all of this at your Honda Stealership. 'I just wanna buy a freaking Civic' 😂

Exactly why i'm just waiting out for a used one. Ridiculous. The average guy making decent money who is saving up for years, just to be pushed around like this is ridiculous.

Collectors mess everything up.. Cars, Guitars, Watches, you name it, the prices skyrocket so people can hide them in the closets.. imo these things are made to be used. That’s how the greater joy of ownership is best achieved.

How are you a fan when you don't know the difference between a 959 from the 80s and a 935 from 2019?

Tried to get a GT car at MSRP for years. I track and use my cars they aren’t in bubble wrap. Dealers want 50+ ADMs so the dealers can shove it.

It’s good to hear they are thinking this interesting if they do anything Truthfully they are making so many 4 litre Gt cars that they are not that rare any more, so market forces will prob balance it out and allow drivers the chance to own them🤞 Like the line about not wanting to suck a Porsche salesmen parts😂

I live in Hawaii and Porsche of Honolulu is simply disgusting. I paid a deposit to get (4th) in line for a manual coupe 911 GTS and it would be about 10 months before my allocation. They also claimed my order would be done at MSRP and that all their ordered cars are MSRP without markup. A year later I was still 4th in line for an allocation. A month or two after that they said allocations are starting to move finally, but I'd have to pay $10,000 over sticker on my ordered car. Six months after that, Porsche of Honolulu's sales manager called me to inform me that my order slot would be open in a couple weeks, but oh by the way it would now be $30,000 over MSRP. I waited over a year and a half just to order, and would have paid the MSRP increases that happened, but they kept changing my deposited deal in-addition to Porsche's annual price increases. So I went out and bought a used Turbo-S 3rd party. (Slim pickin's here in Hawaii)

Are you saying that if you take a EU delivery that you'll get which ever car you're seeking to obtain?

I guess I'm rare cuz all of my GT cars were purchased at MSRP, and spec'd by me. Two of my GT cars came straight from Porsche Motorsport (GT4 RS and 992 GT3 RS). They were both one of only nine in North America that came from Porsche Motorsport. When they come from Porsche Motorsport then they are at MSRP. But, luckily, my 992 GT3 and my Spyder RS were also sold to me at MSRP by my dealer. This is due to my VIP connection and also cuz I had a 992 GT3 Cup car for a race team.

@ignitionontheleft

Ай бұрын

Turns out that last sentence is pretty important. :)

@damachine3

Ай бұрын

@ignitionontheleft Not really, because I actually made money when I sold it. You generally don't take a loss on those cars. But it didn't allow me to meet certain people, which is cool.

on point, nothing to add.

Does this apply for used GT3s?

I’ve bought 5 Porsches new and still have my 993 C2S 997.2 GT3 and 991.1 GT3 RS. I got offered a 918 and turned it down which is my largest regret because since then, my dealer asked for a premium on the 991.2 GT3 RS. I refused and bought a Macan S at another dealer to show them I wanted to establish a new relationship then get the GT cars from them. I can’t find a single dealer who offers me a GT car at MSRP. So I went to Ferrari and put a deposit down on a 296 GTB which I will be getting at MSRP. I’ve been waiting for my order slot for 18 months but they are treating me very well and even set up a factory customer tour for me in 2022 despite not yet owning the car. Ferrari invites me to events and is treating me very well. Porsche has lost its way and unless PCNA fixes the allocation problem that dealers use to charge $100K+ ADMs, I doubt I will ever buy a new Porsche again. I’ll just buy Ferraris from now on.

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

Wow. Thank you for sharing, there seems to be a theme developing…

First time P buyer to a GT4. Broker fee to avoid smug local dealer absurd ADM, still paying some ADM, year long wait, no PTS availability, cancelled options and colors... Hasn't been the greatest experience. Car is fantastic and I'd say it was all worth it if it didn't end up in the shop with a CEL for a month to miss 3 track weekends. I'm not the type to churn through cars so I guess I'm not their target demo, but it's certainly soured me on the thought of getting my wife a Macan/Cayenne.

I agree whole heartedly and I am a VIP customer. I have several classic and new 911's including a 2008 GT2 , 2021 GT3 touring and my GT3 RS is in bound. I really feel that Porsche HQ needs to clamp down on market adjusted pricing. It's just not a great customer loyalty program. The ferrari model works for Ferrari but it's a different demographic and buyer that likes the fact they are viewed in a certain way. Porsche customers are different and Porsche needs to treat them differently. I this persists Porsche could lose the loyal customers and have irreparable damage to the brand. Charge sticker, ci=communicate the reality of the production numbers and allocation of GT cars and customers will understand but when you start price gouging customers and social media begins to point it out it could snowball and damage the brand. My local dealer doesn't charge VIP GT customers over list, and even the special cars (ST) can be out of reach but you always know where you stand.

@ignitionontheleft

8 ай бұрын

I love your logic regardless of your own personal gain to be realized. I admire that.

I think the sport classic deal will just make those car flipping just ask for even more ludicrous mark up. It won't really affect me though as an old 997 would be a dream.

@longsleevethong1457

8 ай бұрын

997 are going through the roof too

@cartergarnon6299

8 ай бұрын

Just got the call, $200k over straight away then the 1 year lease deal paid in full up front, all for Porsche to hold the title for a year before you can then buy it out. I’m done with that dealership.

@longsleevethong1457

8 ай бұрын

@@cartergarnon6299 ford did something like that with the new gt40. That worked out ok. John cena got sued so that’s cool.

In the U.K. Porsche prices are falling hard. Check out Jayemm video on changing Porsche prices.

I remember laughing at Guadin asking for $125k over on a 992 GT3.

Having a one year "lease" restriction will just drive up the resell value of the S/T when the purchaser sells it after 12 months ... it's all about rarity and building demand, and Porsche is a master of special edition limited run cars. You see it over and over, "special" parts bin cars that get hyped over dozens of youtube channels as the "best" 911 ever made ... until the next one comes along, and it just repeats over and over. Porsche also lets their stealerships do what they want, so you get the preferred treatments, cash under the table incentives, and silly ADM charges. I have owned Porsches over 30 years, currently have a 997.1 GT3, and have no intention of playing these games so I guess I will stay with my "old" P-car for now.

Guy in the blue in the left doesn’t know that the GT3 and GT2 have been out since 996 - point being, they weren’t that hard to get a hold of until Porsche started these games. All most want is a car to drive and track, but we can’t even do that unless we pay the Porsche tax now.

I went in to look at a new GT3 and the dealer was asking for $40k over MSRP. This was just 2 months ago. I abruptly left.

Well it’s crazy how it’s not just Ferrari or Porsche dealers making customers pay over MSRP… after covid hit with the whole chip shortage or whatever excuse they came up with they had normal People pay over MSRP for normal cars lol.. it’s insane.. and it’s like who do you blame? The dealer or the customers willing to pay over MSRP for cars? Or the manufacturer not stepping in to stop dealers from charging over? Crazy time for the auto market. Even to this day 3 years almost 4 years after Covid dealers are selling regular cars over MSRP. It’s nuts!!! Crazy how our joy Salomondrin got flamed a few years ago being called a Porsche flipper when our boy Manny Khoshbin has been flipping Porsches for a few years and no one’s saying anything

Ummm…. GT3 arrived in 1999, it hit the ground running, there has never been a bad GT3 model and they’ve always been fantastic on track. Saying ‘they only started to get good in 2012’ or whatever makes YOU sound like part of the problem as it’s clueless. Edit… when I say YOU, I mean the guy on the left. The guy on the right knows his onions.

I think allocations are crap way to force the world to have a small available quantity that keeps an artificially high demand present. If I walk into a dealership with money in hand wanting to order a car, I should be able to. I can understand the cars that are all bespoke hand crafted, but assembly line cars have no reason not to sell to who wants them. It only keeps from growing your customer base. Porsche doesn't only do this with their more special cars either. Other than like a base Macan or Cayenne, dealerships have set allocation numbers for everything.

It feels like Porsche has taken notes from the Rolex playbook creating artificial scarcity. And I’m not just talking about GT cars. I’m souring as well.