PiG, this is what sets you head and shoulders above other SC2 content creators. Not only is your demeanor and positive attitude absolutely contagious, but you stumble across these crazy builds and immediately you want to implement them. Watching you test out Nydus Swarm hosts has been some of my favorite SC2 content of all time BAR NONE. I can't wait to see what you do with this outrageous build!

UPDATE: I've been practicing this opening for the last 2 weeks and talking to pros about it, seems it definitely has some nice uses! Serral reckons it's great in ZvP right now since so many Protoss players try to pylon block your natural, but the hatchery is so fast they can't get there in time! Trying to gather some of my fun games with the opening as well some from other players testing it out on the ladder to cast and analyse for a follow up!

For a game as old as this one, seeing people do filthy builds to crap on standard meta is awesome. Especially when they're doing it to players as magnificently skilled as Dark, who thrives on crazy as much as any player I've watched.

Dark feeling relieved as Rogue went in the army, now there is another Rogue taunting him!

Oh my god, I've been doing extractor trick and early pool openings for years and I've even written up whole discussion threads about it on reddit only to get slapped down by the comments. There is a huge gap in Zerg build-orders that most players simply don't understand. First off, you're getting your 14th worker ~10 seconds earlier than standard, this actually gives you a mineral income advantage at the earliest point possible, but it sets you up for a really awkward next minute of play. Once you've commited to the 14th worker before Overlord, you have 2 real options - 14 Pool, or Extractor Trick. Both of these are FAR stronger than they initially look. If you go 14 pool, you can get 6 zerglings out at I think it's 2:10? And your opponent MUST modify their build-order to handle these lings, so at the VERY LEAST you are inflicting economic damage through some mild build-order changes, and by no means do you have to commit to an all-in from this position. I think 14 pool is strongest in ZvZ where you can take advantage of how larva spawns and you can make 4 lings immediately after your pool is finished, 2 more 1-2 seconds later when you hit 50 minerals, and 2 more 1-2 seconds after that, giving you 8 lings when you really shouldn't be able to. This gives you a notably strong 'first punch' that you can then fall back on a strong economy and defend well, putting your opponent into an all-in position where you get to defend with queens, spines, and a wall-off. The only real hard counter to 14 pool in ZvZ is the stuff Erik is doing here, 15 pool gives you a tiny bit bigger economy and easily deflects the early lings, anything else you are almost guaranteed to lose 1 drone, putting the game in a very equal spot. If you lose 2 or more drones, the 14 pool player is ahead. As far as extractor trick stuff goes, it isn't so much highly economical as much as it allows you to pull the game into even weirder spots. One of my favorites is 14 extractor trick, 15 pool, 14 OL, 14 extractor, 14 hatch. Then you time your drones to finish 100 gas as soon as the Pool finishes and immediately start ling speed. I use this in ZvT regularly to catch my opponents 1st Reaper that can enter the base just before ling speed finishes, but they can't comfortably stick around with speed done. You can do this with 4 lings and 2 queens. The lings can escort your drone to the 3rd (yes it's late) and then apply some light pressure to your opponent's Natural JUST before they get hellions out and maybe secure an SCV kill or two. My favorite thing to pair with this is building a roach warren just before the reaper comes into the main, which I can then optionally cancel after the reaper is cleaned up. It makes it basically impossible for Terran to know if you are going to roach all-in them or not without committing a scan. Which if they do, they aren't dropping a mule, so you're good. There is TONS of nuance to this tree of builds that most people just completely dismiss. I wouldn't call it more economical or less economical, I would say it's something like "aggressively leaning" where you are banking on being able to inflict SOME minor economical damage to your opponent in order to equalize the game, but you are also almost always guaranteed to do exactly that, so it's fine.

I love the players that implement weird build orders like in this game Erik, and i remember one game of MaxPax vs Serral that he do a strategy with adepts that killed so much drones of Serral and in the next game he opened with 3 starport, it was amusing to see this typ of games, they have a extra point because there is originality in them

Usually its dark being the annoying player. This is like dark getting the taste of his own medicine.

@tucosalamanca6688

Жыл бұрын

This is so accurate haha

@jkkim6928

Жыл бұрын

I didn’t know medicine is meant to annoy

@tigera6

Жыл бұрын

I wonder how many times did Dark smash his desk during this.

@mickmccasker6401

Жыл бұрын

Insert Spiderman meme

hope to see you do videos on this after your matches! even if they don't go well seeing something different is always great to see

The thing I'd tack onto this is something we saw a couple years ago from DRG shortly after he came back. He'd gain map control with early pressure and double expand in a lot of matchups - since you are delaying your 3 for a strong spike on 2, I have to imagine there's a fast 4 base followup if you manage to get pressure without dealing fully critical damage.

And he already took two serieses out of the man, what a legend.

I played a long time ago and then stopped for like 10 years. When I came back I just did the extractor trick because thats how I learned to play. Also I feel like at lower levels where people dont have god like micro, blocking with the roach and evos is pretty common stuff. I think that most people play like this in diamond/plat in zvz. Most people at that skill have a hard time managing the mico of lings and bangs with a third and so its much easier to sit on two base until you have enough roaches to push out of your wall. The games then come down to understanding if your opponent is going muta or not. If roach then you are battling for better eco, upgrades. If they go muta you got to rush them. If both go roach then you look for upgrades for an edge. I usually go roach infestor as my edge just for the AOE damage. Cant wait to see you play this style out on the ladder.

Need to see PiG do another episode of Most Annoying Player messing around with this opening

Looking forward to a follow up video to the first games build!

I really love the extractor trick opens cause I like the safety of the quick 2 base and queens. Works great for me since I tend to run into more aggressive stuff and it just feels solid.

@SD-jf7nb

Жыл бұрын

2 Q blk a rmp. Unless, it's like, adept or reaper.

This would be much harder to pull off without the situational awareness and clean execution that Erik has. That first game his reactions to pressure and runbys was so disgustingly on point it was like watching a machine play. Most players would dedicate to the all in roach to hard and get tripped up by runbys and banelings from their opponents more mobile army.

@PiGstarcraft

Жыл бұрын

yeah he's so experienced in these situations, vs a lesser opponent than Dark though I think we can have some success with this :D

One of your best! Thanks!

I have been experimenting with extractor trick builds for a while. Have a 1 base nydus lurker build for zvz that wins like 75% of the time. Sometimes i have to expand and get the upgrade advantage. I hate the ling bane dance. So i just skip it hahaha. 80% of the time enemy goes mass roaches and ravengers. The other 20% they go mutas. Its crazy how predictable it is.

@richardgallimore5976

Жыл бұрын

It would be funny if someone did Nydus SH vs you. Nydus SH vs Nydus Lurker would be a unique game!

@enriquegarciacota3914

Жыл бұрын

Hey, do you have a reply or build order I could look at?

can't wait for the debrief/update on that strat

It feels like I've witnessed a revolution, especially as you said against terran the 15 hatch 15 pool just seems generally stronger than the 16 hatch before poll.

So good to see this stuff hitting the front page of pro games. We keep getting told that drone lord drone is the best opening but I get my hatch out faster, queens out faster and I'm generally ahead doing this opening. And I can all in from it if I need to. It's about time that we treat this game like it's not completely solved yet. Good work by Erik.

Brillant stuff. Afterr 10+ years, poeple still can invent stuff like this, the basic start

You lose about 21 minerals... but your also mining about 60 a minute, just have to make sure your drones are saving a mining spot near the extractors for better efficiency it is pretty cool build. Doing everything before the first overlord, may work out better for the queens, since overlord first, you get later queens and use up that 11 second larva. Of the natural hatch spawn rate, to the point you are waiting on the hatch. So you would be behind two drones, but technically if you never stall a hatchery on 3 larva but keep it at around 2... until you can keep them spawning it could work quite well... what is nice about this build is if Terran macro or turtles.. you can have a full saturated third also quite a bit faster... you lose like 40 odd minerals... for early queens which during the early game larva is essential... to defense and economy so it's definitely viable it also gives you alternative defense options.

That does look like it could be a solid opener.

LOL Erik got tunneling claws just so when dark sees the spikes on the roaches he would tap out because he didn’t even have a lair yet.

@richardgallimore5976

Жыл бұрын

Haha I was thinking that. I wouldn't immediately notice my opponent didn't have speed, I would notice the Tunneling Claws & think "They already have Burrow+Tunneling Claws+Roach Speed?!" or at the very least I'd assume even if they have no Roach Speed they've somehow afforded both Tunneling Claws & Burrow, they are so far ahead.

Title: "Uknown pro" Me seeing name "Erik": Isn't that the guy in Brazil?

Eriks opening is what its like when your micro exceeds the demand.

This is efficient play mainly working only at high level. Dark was caught off-guard and played into everything what Erik wanted. The biggest thing about this strat only works against zerg, terran and toss worker scout so you easily get punished for it because no early ling to ward any reaper run-in/cheese or the many toss cheeses

@simenkvamme3003

Жыл бұрын

The pool is faster than normal, so unless it's the terran going for a reaper cheese from the beginning, which we very rarely see, it should do better vs the terran cheeses, not worse. Probably the same vs toss, earlier pool and hatch means you can get spines made/in position.

@zachariastsampasidis8880

Жыл бұрын

The only way to punish this would be 12 pool or 3 barracks all in on a very short map. Alternatively gas and tech are forcibly delayed a lot but that's more of >he didn't stabilize >Punish his greed

@patrickrudiger8762

Жыл бұрын

Honestly on dia, most terrans react rather slow. If the drones are not transferred to the natural, they often waste a few seconds before the reaper checks the main. One often can get away with maybe 1 drone loss skipping lings on larger maps with normal builds. Here, queens are a lot faster so i dont think the first reaper can do much about it when controlled by an average diamant terran..

@seri-ously8591

Жыл бұрын

@@simenkvamme3003 In ideal situation, it should hold up, the biggest issue I see is that when this strat gets used by any lower rank, the lack of knowing the ins and out of this strat to prevent you from dying will be put to the test. We saw how Erik caught Dark off-guard and forced him to try and trade via ling run-in but he already knew the timing and took preemptive measure to set up a defense. It’s one of those strats that show potential only at the higher levels because it requires flexibility.

Clearly a couple good builds to mix in !

I'd say this(the first build) is a nice surprise build until ppl learn how to scout and counter it. I've never seen anything like it (mid masters all races) and i have no idea what i would do if i scouted it. BUT. This is a really creative and cool opener. I sat with my jaw dropped for the most part of this video. INSANELY good content.

@richardgallimore5976

Жыл бұрын

I tried vs AI & the build only seems 1 larvae less efficient up to the 5 minute mark compared to a regular build, so even if the build gets scouted you're not really behind with the 15/14 Hatch, 15/14 Overlord, 15 Pool compared to a 16 Hatch 18 Gas, 17 Pool.

I love this 😂❤❤ cast more erric games plz!!!!!!

The 15h 15p before OV is also great vs 12p drone pull all in’s

@richardgallimore5976

Жыл бұрын

Even 15h15o15p gets the Pool started at 1:04, which is 9 seconds earlier than a 16/18/17 Hatch Gas Pool.

That was very cool

I looked at Eriks player card and saw he was Brazilian. And honestly, that kinda explains it. Brazilians can be extraordinarily scary.

Does anyone know if Pig still does any Starcraft remastered content?

Erik boy is cooking

I would like to see a commentation of your favorite games played with this opening.

Can we get replays?

I think it would work more on the merit that it is so hard to read. Vs Terran I think it would be harder to pull off as the reaper is so invasive and usually gets the scout.

@Santisima_Trinidad

Жыл бұрын

True, but its also a ZvZ build, and mirror matches are always a bit weird.

@richardgallimore5976

Жыл бұрын

ZvT I'm wondering if you just make 1 set lings instead of 2 vs the Reaper as your Queen comes out 10 seconds sooner. That's a lot less time you need to micro against the Reaper with lings.

this reminds me of 12 pool 18 hatch macro build

Iv got replays with serial in 2015 and he would do so many extractor tricks this might be a old ass serral build variation

bronze to gm? will you upload that to youtubes or is that twitch only? (Yes i know you have an old one, but always fun to see a new updated one)

@PiGstarcraft

Жыл бұрын

all of my b2gm series apart from the first zerg one is up on my Coaching channel: kzread.info

@lindalobstadefenda

Жыл бұрын

@@PiGstarcraft I didnt even know you had one!! thank you Pig!!! You rock!!

Greeat build but also exceptional execution. Erik didnt miss a beat for like 8 min.

Yeah this seems good, I wouldn’t like to play against this in TvZ. I wonder if you can’t just play rule of one gas with this opening as well?

I think us should test it.

Has anyone ever seen Erik and Bly in the same room at the same time?

i mean, from a mathematical standpoint this build should be more economical than a normal macro opening except it will die horribly to any early pressure. these seems like an extreme meta build against dark specifically, it would be horrible on the zvz ladder lol

@richardgallimore5976

Жыл бұрын

I tested it & this build is slightly less economical than a standard build, but barely. Like drone less over the span of 5 minutes. I think the opposite, it should be easier to hold aggression. You get Queens earlier, you can make a reactive spine crawler 10 seconds earlier, you can make lings sooner. Vs say 12 pool ling spine drone rush this build hard counters it as you start your Pool around 1:04 instead of 1:13 & can get lings sooner.

That's a dangerous build. 😳 twice the queens and double the production in the first two minutes. I'm gonna stay off ladder for a minute 😅

*chef kiss*

Vai Brasiiiiiil!!!

Its has been a while since last time I saw SC2 Brazilian players being mentioned by big streamers like you Pig, and they're always doing something stupid but genius at the same time 😂 its Brazilian nature to think outside the box and do wierd stuff

Dark looked like a noob in this video. That was tough for him

Nice

I really like SC2, because it's chess on steroids. Modern chess players don't do optmial moves all the time, they try to make a move that will make it the hardest to find optimal response for the opponent. Why? If you both play optimal, it's a draw. Erik seems to do the same thing - it's not optimal, but good enough, and has very limited variety of working responses.

Actually extractor trick builds should have more minerals, you have drones mining for longer since you didn't have to wait for the ovi.

@zachariastsampasidis8880

Жыл бұрын

And you also don't waste larva generating time at, with a typical drone to overlord iirc you do waste a bit dont you

@richardgallimore5976

Жыл бұрын

@@zachariastsampasidis8880 I think a standard build is more larvae efficient than this, but barely. With this build you larvae cap for a small amount of time after you put down the 15/14 Pool, but before the overlord pops. Erik was also a drone behind Dark in the early game.

What an epic game.of.hungry hungry.hippos

I like this

Dark and Erik are 69 together. When adding their rankings. Sorry, couldn't resist.

cool

Please test this ❤

😲

Brasileiro é foda

Cancel Evo into Bane bust…😮

To good stategy 😂 dark noppi😂❤

Finally you show your face! lol

Is this florencio's older brother?

@Florenciosc2

Жыл бұрын

I have some new tactics you haven't seen before. ;)

Usually zergs get harrased from begining till the end, with terrans being esp annoying. Perhaps this would make games get more balance. Is this viable due to a patch? Well, good patch!

That's a batz build more or less

Econo Brie

Many players can win Dark. NO.5?

Dark losing, you love to see it

Erik must be sOs experimenting with zerg cos, let’s be real, protoss is trashed in the current balance

whoa man......this was disgusting....made dark look just awful

gg but it shows that ZvZ is broken...

Eric seems to be suffering from ranking just like that of most wanna-be tennis pros, their biggest enemy is their rank, not their ability to play, getting into or invited to Pro tour tournaments is based on rankings, getting qualified means getting into those same tournaments? lol catch 22.

@PiGstarcraft

Жыл бұрын

yeah breaking out is very difficult. Even for a guy who's ranked 16th in the world... in the top 16 of a tournament he often plays world rank #1 due to seeding- and even if he puts up a good fight and takes some maps, he still gets a forgettable top 16 placement in most peoples minds. Even though he might have been good enough to get second place in the entire tournament on that given day. Tennis suffers the same problem. It's a slow grind to slowly separate from the pack and you have to really perform many times over a long period to get that ranking up, and as the ranking goes up your opportunities increase

PiG pan. > cranky