Eternal Conscious Torment is the ultimate ego trip for the "saved". It is the ultimate in "we" were right, "you" were wrong. The wrong people get to be punished which only adds to our sense of rightness. You can see it in the early church Fathers who claim that one of the pleasures of heaven will be seeing the torments of the damned. Sick.

@marcusmuse4787

11 ай бұрын

some are saying it distorts God's grace, but I believe it expands God's grace and makes it accessible to all even after death 1 peter4:6 for this cause was the gospel preached even to those who have died. And before that Christ preached to the spirits in prison that died during the flood some people deny this and say it was more of an in-your-face kind of preaching, but I think that's a complete misunderstanding and he was preaching for them to finally be redeemed so they could live for God in the spirit. He is most definitely the God of 2nd chances.

I’m so encouraged by the comments section! The truth about the good news of the gospel is prevailing!

@theundeservedflavor

6 ай бұрын

Yes, people are waking up and realizing hell is a pagan myth!

@danielniros

5 ай бұрын

me too! I feel that my life is lighter and full of love since I stop believing in hell. I can understand better the love of Christ when I dont desire other people to suffer eternal torment

@Varcrow13

4 ай бұрын

⁠@@danielniros it is an amazing thing to know that our God truly loves us.

I was expecting to hear scripture yet NONE was given. I'll share one. 1 Timothy 4:10 ESV For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL people, especially of those who believe.

@JTomas96

Жыл бұрын

And don't forget the very next verse... "these things COMMAND AND TEACH"

@masterprophet8378

Жыл бұрын

Of course Jesus is the Savior of ALL people but that doesn't mean all people are going to ALLOW Jesus to save them.

@alwaysadawg6488

Жыл бұрын

@@masterprophet8378 So the King of Kings, the Living God, is powerless against human free will?

@masterprophet8378

Жыл бұрын

@@alwaysadawg6488, of course He is NOT powerless against anything - He is COURTEOUS germane to our volition. . He Himself established this principle at the foundation of the cosmos, to wit, that He would NEVER force humankind to make choices against their freedom of volition. That is why the world is in pandemonium due to the misuse of human will.

@alwaysadawg6488

Жыл бұрын

@@masterprophet8378 He definitely could force humankind to do something against their will if the result of their free will choice is complete and utter destruction. Loving parents do that all the time for their children. If my son were to decide that he wants to go play in the interstate, I would stop him from doing so. I would deny him his free will in our to save him from danger. God made people do things against their free will all the time. If God had not pushed against Jonah's free will, he never would have preached in Niveveh. Look at the number of times in the OT that God commanded the Hebrews to move from one place to the next or attack other people when they didn't want to. Universalists believe that at some point after death, and after some level of corrective punishment, the wicked and the lost will repent and turn to God of their own free will. Reconciliation. A literal translation of the original Greek text of the NT states, 9 "Wherefore, also, God highly exalts Him, and graces Him with the name that is above every name, 10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should be bowing, celestial and terrestrial and subterranean, 11 and every tongue should be acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord, for the glory of God, the Father. The verse indicates that all people/souls everywhere will end up acclaiming (publicly and enthusiastically praising) God. Everyone is there praising and no one is forced to be there.

Here is the key. Titus 2:11-12 tells us grace teaches us to be righteous. Isaiah 26:9 tells us that God's judgments teach righteousness. So one way or another (either grace or judgment), we are all going to learn righteousness, just like it says in Romans 5. It's good news!

@Tommythecat007

Жыл бұрын

Nice ..thank you

@marcusmuse4787

11 ай бұрын

The lake of fire has brimstone and when they smelt gold to remove its impurities sulfur dioxide is released and that's brimstone.

"preach the cross to show God's hatred for sin and his immense love". That's exactly what a Christian universalist would preach. He'd say what was accomplished on the cross is greater than what you make it out to be, God's grace is bigger, his love is bigger and his power to reconcile us to him is bigger. Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. That's how we're saved right? Notice it's EVERY knee and EVERY tongue.

@jasonegeland1446

3 жыл бұрын

YES! :)

@TyehimbaJahsi

3 жыл бұрын

Well said!

@jasonegeland1446

3 жыл бұрын

No arguments here.

@jasonegeland1446

3 жыл бұрын

@Moses R. Yes, but keep in mind that anything that requires punishment doesn't last endlessly. Forever, everlasting, even eternal do not mean endless. Every knee will bow, yes, but not just so God will humiliate us and then send us away! To bow is to praise and for a tongue to swear means to swear an oath or allegiance to something (God). Study the word aionios. The words that seem to mean an ongoing and endless time are awful translation errors. There's a lot to cover but also study the words sheol, hades, Gehenna, and tartarus, none of which are properly translated as hell because hell is also a tremendous translation error! Even in the lake of fire, .there are people that went through it and were just waiting to to be let in to the city after after they washed their garments. Read about it in Revelation. "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:4

@jasonegeland1446

3 жыл бұрын

@Moses R. That's what I believe, yes. It makes the most logical sense to me and it gives me assurance that I will see my loved ones again. I can't think of a greater kind of love from God than this!!

have you been lucky enough to be born in a Christian country so that you can hear the gospel and probably be saved? or you have been so unlucky to be born in an Islamic country that they give you a twisted version of the bible and had almost no chance to hear the real one? so unlucky to have a good Muslim family that you love them and there is a tremendous amount of emotional physical cultural barriers that make it almost impossible for you to hear the gospel?

@sonnymustarseed7034

2 жыл бұрын

Recommend reading 'Hope Beyond Hell' by Gerry Beauchemin

I’m so relieved to come here and see so many comments in favor of Christian Universalism. Discovering how much evidence there is in scripture for universal reconciliation saved my faith and belief in God. He is even bigger, more powerful, more filled with grace, and embodying love than I grew up thinking. You can disagree with Christian Universalism, but I really don’t understand why it’s necessary to oppose it.

@TheHumbuckerboy

2 жыл бұрын

I guess some people would feel less special if God's grace extended to everyone ?

@incorectulpolitic

Жыл бұрын

@@TheHumbuckerboy exactly. Such hypocrites and psychopaths.

@JTomas96

Жыл бұрын

@@TheHumbuckerboy Probably they need the lie of Eternaaaal Punishmmeeeeent in order to deny themselves. They say "if I go to church then it must e worth it". Sudenly this verse comes to my mind: "There is no fear in love, because fear involves PUNISHMENT".

@TheHumbuckerboy

Жыл бұрын

@@JTomas96 Exactly !

@marcusmuse4787

11 ай бұрын

they think it distorts God's grace, but it actually EXPANDS God's grace.@@TheHumbuckerboy

Don't oppose it, embrace it!

@jhq9064

Жыл бұрын

Amen brother, didn't see your comment until after I posted my similar one

@thatwhichhasbeen-isthatwhi6575

Жыл бұрын

@@jhq9064 As the old saying goes, great minds think alike lol. What a wonderful privilege we have in knowing the glorious truth about the victorious gospel! Peace

@jhq9064

Жыл бұрын

@@thatwhichhasbeen-isthatwhi6575 "He gets us" ! - He died for us

As Rabbi Gamaliel once said, "... but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!" (Acts 5:39).

All I hear is a bunch of "God couldn't do that," when he is giving his arguments against universalism. I was really hoping for some foundational theological truth here, but I'm leaning more towards universalism now. It seems this query is so utterly quenched, and drenched in disarray.

@marianskodowski8337

3 жыл бұрын

O.K. The Lake of Fire is real and long lasting "aionos" but not eternal as it is only a creation, the Final Judgment is real too, but unbelievers and sinners will take only their part in the Lake of Fire - the second death. After that they'll leave this place to stay around New Jerusalem, but they are not allowed to enter the city.

@TheHumbuckerboy

3 жыл бұрын

In the last several years since I have been studying Christian Universalism I haven't heard any good successful refutation from any preacher , scholar or other source . Christian Universalism / Ultimate Reconciliation makes sense to me.

@jasonegeland1446

3 жыл бұрын

You're absolutely right! It's always the same typical arguments, never bending and trying to refute something that's so obviously true! Not to sound biased but universal salvation is way more doctrinally sound than limited atonement, but people don't want to let go of their traditionalist understandings even when something is being fully revealed to them!

@jasonegeland1446

3 жыл бұрын

@Moses R.All over the place. Just look up universal salvation in the bible to start. There's references galore. It's one of those things where if you're looking for proof of limited atonement, you'll find it, and if you're looking for proof of universal salvation, you'll find it too. What it boils down to for me is this: What most closely seems to represent a loving father who made everything? A) A God with a bunch of anger management issues who will reject you and send you to a place of endless misery because you didn't get everything right in this short life? B) An extremely intelligent and loving father who forgives you regardless of what you do (and regardless of whether you ask him to forgive you) and rehabilitates you because you're one of his children? My parents always forgive me and there were lots of times I didn't ask them to forgive me. They just did because they loved me. This is the God I follow, so I'm going with B.

@TheHumbuckerboy

3 жыл бұрын

@Moses R. It is the good news throughout the Bible. There are several good books on the subject . One very inexpensive short book/ pamphlet is the much shortened version of 'Heaven's Doors' by George Sarris or check him out on utube and also someone like Robin Parry for explanations concerning universal salvation.

The Cross of Christ is beautifully suited to ultimate reconciliation.

@marcusmuse4787

11 ай бұрын

AMEN!

Why would a Christian want to oppose God’s work in reconciling all things to Himself?

@nistan3

5 жыл бұрын

corey david - Because they havn't experienced the unconditional love of the Father and have pride and vengeance in their hearts as I once had! Peace

@Tommythecat007

4 жыл бұрын

@@nistan3 Yes exactly and what lays behind the pride and vengeance is always usually disenfranchised grief or shame, so an exclusive Gospel is sadly much more comfortable for them to believe in

@kukakbear5618

3 жыл бұрын

@@nistan3 “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” Yeah that sounds like unconditional love...tell me another story 😎

@nistan3

3 жыл бұрын

@@kukakbear5618 The word "hated" is another example of incorrect translation. the word in Greek is miseó, it means to "to renounce one choice in favor of another" or to "reject". It has nothing to do with the emotion of hate. Many such mistranslations are in the Latin Vulgate inspired English bibles of today. Go back to the original Greek manuscripts and you will see how today's bible translations are based on the ancient Latin Vulgate which Jerome wrote to give the ancient Roman church control of the people. Now, you might say, but the “word of God” (bible) is inspired, or as some believe, “dictated” by God, and that today’s English translations are preserved word for word correctly. Not so. I can write my own version of the bible using whatever words I want, then I can have thousands of people download it for free, and guess what? They would assume that it’s just another Bible version that is God inspired. You see, He wouldn’t zap me or magically change the words in my version, and he didn’t change anything in the Latin and English versions either. All we have is the earliest known Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. So, thinking that every word in today’s Latin based bibles is God’s literal word is not correct. God IS love, and when you read the bible from the lens of LOVE, you will see the “ lying pen of the scribes” - Jeremiah 8:8. How’s that for “another story”? LOL. Check out some truth here if you've got the balls: kzread.info/dash/bejne/m5uAlqqrlqqogdo.html Peace

@nistan3

3 жыл бұрын

@Moses R. Wrong, all are already saved, you just don’t understand what that means. Peace

Universalism is the way and, as a Christian, I don't see why it has to be opposed. I guess some fundies love being the only special ones that get saved and don't care at all if other people get tortured for eternity.

@DJ5780

4 жыл бұрын

honestly that's the view I took before I knew reconciliation is a valid theology. I just had to put the concept of hell out of my mind. It sure enough didn't motivate me to spread the gospel, it only paralyzed me.

@jasonegeland1446

3 жыл бұрын

That's what it seems like more often than not. I should know, as my girlfriend and her family are very hardcore about it. Anything I've attempted to show them, very obvious parts of Scripture that clearly show contextually that all are saved, even using different Bible translation versions to show how hell replaced sheol to originally mean death or grave. It just seems to be flat-out willful ignorance to me! I've got this theory that they are this way because they swore an oath long ago to not break their sacred traditions. Also, I think it's heavily fear based and they don't want to be swayed, which like I said before is pride and willful ignorance, especially since they won't even research it, and if it comes from the internet, IT'S WRONG!!!!!

@matthewmendez2394

3 жыл бұрын

@Moses R. Thank you brother for defending the faith

@justindavis2711

2 жыл бұрын

@@matthewmendez2394 Faith in Jesus or faith in a certain interpretation of scripture pertaining to hell? Dont mistake Universalists for Heretics. We are spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ just as you are. Defend your theology, but dont pretend you are defending the Christian faith. Belief in an eternal hell doesnt save anyone. Belief in Jesus does

@AtreyuKhalil

2 жыл бұрын

@@justindavis2711 you say “belief in an eternal hell doesn’t save anyone and Jesus does?” Well what is it you think Jesus is SAVING US FROM?

Opposing such a truth says a lot about your spiritual state, God bless.

@MrKingcarella23

2 жыл бұрын

Are you absolutely sure it’s true?

@aaaaallllleeeeexxxxx

Жыл бұрын

Are you absolutely sure the next chair you sit down on won’t collapse?

God destroys his enemies by making them his friends. St Isaac of Syria

@nistan3

3 жыл бұрын

Well said!

@christophergibson7155

2 жыл бұрын

Rubbish!

@ivysii8874

Жыл бұрын

Beautiful❤

@christophergibson7155

Жыл бұрын

@@ivysii8874 False Statement by Isaac of Syria. "Don't be deceived, God is not mocked, whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap." "And death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged each one according to his works. The death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of life was cast into the lake of fire."(Rev. 20:13b-15) No one going there were God's friends.

@jhq9064

Жыл бұрын

As did Abraham Lincoln

You say the best way to combat universalism is to make the cross the centre. But really aren’t you doing just the opposite? You’re completely ignoring what happened on the cross and disregarding what God did on the cross and I’m assuming putting great emphasis on humanity’s part. You’re saying the blood of Jesus was shed but what really saves you from your sin is yourself deciding to believe. You’re saying the blood of Jesus shed on the cross by itself wasn’t good enough. Didn’t God make a transaction to buy us with his blood? If you’re the slave what part do you have in the transaction? Your new owner doesn’t consult you he buys you. Jesus isn’t a potential saviour he is saviour of the world which means past tense, he has already saved. Mind you in the Greek their are different tenses is being saved. You have been saved you are being saved. And you shall be saved. Is there a small possibility you don’t understand everything? Why do we call certain views wrong and immediately condemn the person when maybe some grace should be given to study and find out. It’s fine if you don’t agree with it but then you condemn others calling them heretics when really it could very well be you.

@robert-williamevans3347

4 жыл бұрын

Romans 10: 9-11, I suggest you read that because it is clear that you dont know what youre talking about. What saves you from your sin is deciding to believe in the blood of Jesus. This doesnt make the blood of Jesus unnecessary, I wonder how you came to that conclusion. Please read the word for yourself

@therealgospelofchrist6823

4 жыл бұрын

@@robert-williamevans3347 How does one come to believe? I thought faith was a gift from God.

@robert-williamevans3347

4 жыл бұрын

@@therealgospelofchrist6823 Believing and having faith are two different things. James elaborates on this, even the demons believe in God James 2:19. So believing is different from faith. When you believe then you get faith and the way you show faith is by your actions

@therealgospelofchrist6823

4 жыл бұрын

@@robert-williamevans3347 James is comparing faith with works he is not making a case that belief and faith are two different things as you suggest. In the Greek, the two words are linked to each other with the word faith being as part of the definition for belief. My question is, where does belief come from? How does it begin? Can God save a vessel of dishonor? You stated that what saves us from sin is deciding to believe in the blood of Jesus so in essence, Jesus's death was invalid unless a person chooses to believe. Did we have to believe in Adam to be cursed by his sin. The scriptures say that no man can come to Christ unless he is drawn by the Father. Can you believe in the blood of Jesus without God first working on your heart? The scriptures say that Jesus takes away the sins of the world but according to you, God needs our permission for it to be valid.

@robert-williamevans3347

4 жыл бұрын

@@therealgospelofchrist6823 I agree with you that no man is drawn to the Father unless the Father calls him. But many are called and few are chosen. Matthew 22:14 John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son,that whosoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life Clearly it is a choice here otherwise the Bible wouldn't have used whosoever. And the condition for having everlasting life comes is believing. Romans 10:9-10 also confirms this. Edit: Grammar errors

1. Of Him are all things (creation ex-deo 1 Cor 8:6; Rom 11:36). 2. In Him we live, move, have our being; (Acts 17:28). Everyone is His OFFSPRING. 3. TO Him are all things (final destiny - Rom 11:36). In the end God will be ALL in ALL. 4. Wicked are like silver dross (Ps 119:119). The purpose of the furnace is to get rid of the DROSS and recover the silver. The current form of Christianity is an Augustinian WESTERN Christianity, not Biblical and HEBRAIC. The NT must be read with HEBRAIC lenses, with what is already revealed in the Hebrew Bible (OT), not with a GREEK or WESTERN mindset. God IS the Saviour of ALL MEN. These things COMMAND AND TEACH (1 Timothy 4:10-11).

@jasonegeland1446

3 жыл бұрын

Perfection! :)

@TheKnowledgeOfTheTruth

3 жыл бұрын

@Moses R. sure. Research what does "perish" mean, and who or what does perish? And are you a single intergral unit, or are there parts to you? "Burning lips and a wicked heart are like a potsherd covered with silver dross" (Prov 26:23). Impurities are eliminated, but silver is recovered.

@Tommythecat007

Жыл бұрын

@Joshua Xu you are not saved by accepting Jesus, rather you are saved because he has accepted you. Sadly you have been sold mainstream arminianism, which has it totally back-to-front. Salvation belongs to the Lord, there is no contract.

@storba3860

Жыл бұрын

​@@Tommythecat007 Limited Atonement is heresy.

@marcusmuse4787

11 ай бұрын

HE IS THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN AND NOT JUST THOSE THAT BELIEVE! THIS MAKES ME LOVE GOD EVEN MORE!

So God created everyone only so He could save some and damn the rest...for all eternity. That’s crazy

@coreyfriend1

5 жыл бұрын

Amen! Jesus is the Savior of ALL men especially of those who believe. (1Tim4:9-11)

@jailtheology

3 жыл бұрын

@@coreyfriend1 1 John 2:2

@LordVader066

3 жыл бұрын

But it’s true tho

@coreyfriend1

3 жыл бұрын

@Moses R. Hey brother, I think you meant to respond to the original post. I will say though, there are multiple passages that speak of God actively casting people into fire and not us merely condemning ourselves; yet I agree with you that our willful rejection of His grace is what merits our judgment. The way that many have understood this is that while people choose sin, God chooses to punish them with the intent on disciplining and restoring them. A good image of this is Zeph 3.8-9. See also 1 Pet 3.18-19; 4.6; Ezek 16.53. He binds all in unbelief and willful disobedience in order to freely bestow mercy on all (Rom 11.32). Blessing brother. -Corey

@marcusmuse4787

11 ай бұрын

@mr.blackpilledbeast572 God will eventually save ALL even that old serpent. even you! but I don't want to go through hell just to get to heaven but that's gonna happen to some. hell is like a refining fire just like the lake of fire with brimstone that's removed when smelting gold with further refining that eventually removes all impurities and is restored to its original state. To enter heaven, you must be born again unless you repent and become as a little child you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

Why would you want to oppose such a beautiful truth.

@MFUNK-xp9um

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly brother.

@royedwards51

3 жыл бұрын

Because in his heart he does want God to reconcile ALL things to himself. He has hate in his heart.

@luketidwell7057

3 жыл бұрын

honestly, becuase its a lie

@katlegomathiane3759

3 жыл бұрын

It's honestly a lie how do you guys read the book of Revelations?

@michaelj.frazee9043

3 жыл бұрын

@@katlegomathiane3759 the book of Revelation is not to be taken literally. It is a book that's rich in symbolism.

Calvinist page trying to oppose universalism.. lol id go with universalism. Universalism is close to the truth..

If the cross is preached in its full depth then everyone will know that God has reconciled the world with him and Christ takes the sin of the world. That's what universalism preaches (evangelical unoversalism)

Could you be happy in heaven with your granddaughter in eternal conscious torment!!!??? I do not think so!!!

@HerveyShmervy

3 жыл бұрын

Bold of you to assume ECT is true

@kukakbear5618

3 жыл бұрын

Isaiah 65:17 "See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind. Matthew 10:37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

@nistan3

3 жыл бұрын

@@kukakbear5618 So much for free will if I'm not even allowed to remember things, especially my own loved ones. Yup, I sure want to live forever under that king of mind control being. You infernalists are hilarious! LOL

@kukakbear5618

3 жыл бұрын

@@nistan3 Matthew 10:37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

@Sanctus_xl

3 жыл бұрын

@@nistan3 you are confused. the reason you wont remember the old things will be because you are enjoying heaven and you will forget about all the sorrows and pain but if you have a problem with the idea that there is an eternal hell, you have tickling ears my friend. may God bless you please read the bible and seek the Lord

Interesting how this is presented as if the doctrine of an eternal Hell of torment and punishment and that the VAST majority of human kind is destined for it is somehow critical to salvation. As if somebody who believes Christ can and does ultimately win all souls will necessarily be destined for the Hell you so ardently believe in. To remark that somebody in a congregation is discussing this in church and categorize it as "frightening" really shows a distinct lack of love and grace and trust in the Lord. Christians can and SHOULD discuss and research and understand all of the theology they are able to investigate. To act as though somebody with a differing viewpoint discussing it in the church will somehow create a theological virus that can't be stopped points toward you yourself being very shaky on how strong you believe your own doctrine is. If your views cannot be put to the test of questions and challenges, then you don't really have them. You live on as if the conservative evangelical theology is the "true" theology and only these very special people in their very special club get to be saved. This kind of view is maintained by those that are offended by the idea that they might have to share eternity with somebody they deem "undesirable". And yet, even by your own doctrine, accepting Christ on your death bed and praying for the forgiveness of your sins means you get a free ticket out of all the evil you might have done. It's no less preposterous than the universalist standpoint. I could make this into a novel about how the conservative American church is so far beyond any actual good theology, but I'm fairly sure nobody here wants to read it. You would far rather spend your days immersed in eisegesis that confirms your pre-existing, deeply non-biblical world view than actually risk learning you are wrong.

@troywright359

11 ай бұрын

no, John Piper does not say if you believe in universalism, then you are proven to be unsaved. Christians should discuss and research theology, but they need to be sure of the firm foundation they themselves are on, lest they fall down a treacherous path. Yes, saying Jim Jones is God is not 'just a different opinion because they;ll all be saved anyway' it is dangerous. Not all theological opinions should be promoted in the church. Studied and set aside, fine, but not promoted.

@qb101

11 ай бұрын

@@troywright359 The distance between belief in Universalism and deciding not to care about something along the lines of a Jim Jones is remarkably vast and the comparison is ridiculous. The reality is that there is just as much evidence FOR universalism (more in fact) as there is for the concept of an eternal Hell where the majority of humankind will spend eternity as objects of wrath in eternal torment; yet it is treated as if it's one of the worst things a person could even consider discussing or believing. Why the modern church continues to cling to this sadistic viewpoint and feels like it is some kind of horrible and evil thing to believe otherwise is beyond me. Yet, here we are.

What did he oppose? I heard a bunch of religious mumbo jumbo...

@michaelj.frazee9043

3 жыл бұрын

But they need religious mumbo jumbo so they can bullshit around the truth.

@matthewmendez2394

3 жыл бұрын

@@michaelj.frazee9043 universalisim has no ground to stand on give me proof for it and I will refute it

Is Jonah in Jonah 2:6 still in the whale "forever" as olam (aion in Greek) is commonly translated forever/eternal...

@sonnymustarseed7034

2 жыл бұрын

Answer is the common knowledge stated in Jonah 2:10

The word Aionon is age, from the original Greek manuscripts, God’s will be done.

The irony of this ending

"we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe" (1 Timothy 4:10) There are hundreds of verses like this that point concretely to the ultimate salvation of all. This subject is very deep, takes time to really grasp. I completely changed my mind about eternal hell after studying this in depth for one year. There is a reason every Literal Bible translation describes afterlife punishment as"age-enduring", NEVER as eternal, that is NOT in the original greek. Massive mistranslation error. I see more and more evidence in the Bible for the ultimate salvation of all every day, it's undeniable. Praise God! He wants all to be saved, the Bible tells us so, and God will do what He wants done, no doubt about it! "1 Peter 4:6 6For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit."

@TheHumbuckerboy

3 жыл бұрын

Amen ! 😃

@katlegomathiane3759

3 жыл бұрын

What about the book of life then? How did you read Revelations?

@michaelj.frazee9043

3 жыл бұрын

@CHIPPY CHOPPY Those who's names are not found in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire judgment for their purification. Not eternal torment.

@joeydoherty368

3 жыл бұрын

@CHIPPY CHOPPY Actually it doesn’t that I know of. There are verses about God saying to the goats that they are cursed into eternal punishment though and the Bible says the devil is tormented in the lake of fire, so it does seem to suggest that God will torture humans there as well. Jesus describes the Broadway as the Path to Destruction. It doesn’t seem likely that God is saving everyone if this is true, but I’m sure universalists have an explanation for this.

@NC-vz6ui

3 жыл бұрын

@Moses R. I used to believe in eternal conscious torment and then changed several months ago. ECT can not exist. Christ will abolish Death and HADES, so it cannot be eternal. The Lake of Fire is symbolic of the refiners fire a crucible with sulfur that purified gold in ancient times. Believers who accept Christ have a straight ticket to heaven upon death, the others are in Hades which is a holding place for the dead. Christ will resurrect the wicked to judgment. This judgement is a refining process and all people should avoid it, but it is limited to which the person receives the 2nd death. Ultimately God will take away all impurity from these people. We as believers have already experienced the 2nd death in coming to Christ. Jesus is referring to Gehenna which is a valley in Jerusalem where they dumped trash with worms and fire. He is symbolically talking about judgment. There are translational errors as well. The word that has been translated forever is a mistranslation of the greek word Aion . It literally means for an age. It does not mean forever. Hell is from pagan Norse Mythology. Hell was actually a women, a pagan Goddess. The doctrine of ECT and Annhilationism is incompatible with the God of the Bible. God is more powerful and will not lose a single soul to Satan.

Despite "Christianity's" attempts to destroy the Good News: "The Final Reconciliation of All Things" (Act 3:21) The Ultimate Victory "That God would be all in all" 1 Cor 15:28 Preachers such as this MAKE MONEY by preaching some VERY bad news... How to oppose it? Become a "Christian" in the sense of the word from about 600 AD onwards. But it is a futile battle, because, "God will wipe away EVERY tear" Rev 21:4

@therealgospelofchrist6823

4 жыл бұрын

Well said and what has always perplexed my mind is how creative Christianity can get when attempting to context away the truth of God's word in any way possible. Case in point, in regards to Revelation 21:4, I used that verse as an argument against Christianity's hell suggesting that it would be difficult for God to wipe away all tears if billions will be tormented in hell and a Christian argued back telling me that I took that verse out of context. They went on to say that God is going to erase the memories of Christians in heaven so they won't remember anything that would cause them to cry. 😐 The gall of him accusing me of taking scripture out of context but I asked him, "since when is dementia ever a good thing"?

God bless you

I am a hopeful universalist, and from a philosophical standpoint it is the only belief that makes sense, I have wracked my heart over this issue for years, and it’s simply untenable to believe in a God who is all good who would simultaneously create a cosmos in which a majority of His creatures will suffer eternally. It does not add up. This does not mean that we are free to sin, not that there is not punishment for rejecting the gospel of grace.

@TheHumbuckerboy

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, if one single rebellious sinner remains lost for all of eternity then that would mean that that same sinner had defeated the love of God ... and that is impossible.

@storba3860

Жыл бұрын

​@Varanus It also says Jesus preached to the dead so there's some form of consciousness after death.

@therealfain

Жыл бұрын

@AL-qs9bl using that verse I could easily say that annihilationism and eternal torment are traditions of men. “and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind-” ‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭19‬:‭5‬ ‭ESV‬‬ Our God says burning children never even entered his mind. But men were doing it. Why don’t we all submit to Christ and his ways which are seen within the law, and forget what men say?

@marcusmuse4787

11 ай бұрын

I finally came to the conclusion after a lot of searching that God couldn't condemn people for all eternity and I'm very glad that there's others that also believe this. in lamentations it says for God does not cast people off forever though he brings grief he will show compassion. Without hell there would be no justice.

@Desiring God : This message of the cross should be titled, The message of Jesus Christ. The cross becomes an idol and we forget the big picture!! Jesus died for our sins (EVERYONE). Our penalty is DEATH, not endless conscious misery!! Please stop teaching this!!!!! "Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4) Believe it already!!!!

@nistan3

3 жыл бұрын

Amen Jason.

@christophergibson7155

2 жыл бұрын

@@nistan3 "But as many as RECEIVED HIM, to them He gave power to become the sons of God, even to those who believe on His name." (John 1:12) It's not an automatic "shoe in". You have to be "IN CHRIST."

@nistan3

2 жыл бұрын

@@christophergibson7155 He has already been “deposited” if you will into all humanity. Receiving and experiencing the fullness of this new abundant life is like you getting a million dollars put in your account. It’s there, it’s yours, your rich, but unless you spend it, you can’t experience it’s benefits. The Gospel is a proclamation of what Christ has accomplished for ALL. It’s not an invitation to choose if you want salvation, but an announcement to start living in it. Not all will believe what transformation has happened to humanity through Christ, and they will lose out in experiencing it in this life which is sad, but eventually they will come to understand and believe. God’s agenda for people doesn’t end when they die, we don’t need to worry about getting people saved, they already are, rather we strive to awaken people to their true identity in Christ so that the Kingdom of God (Love) will transform the world forever. Peace

@christophergibson7155

2 жыл бұрын

@@nistan3That is just a cope out. Jesus has sent you into the world to preach the gospel and make disciples of all nations. He who has believed will be saved from God's wrath and judgment, and he who has not believed shall be condemned. There is no second chance in the next life. Forget that lie. The very first thing that atheists, the de-converted, false converts, cults, and most world religions drop is the doctrine of Hell and the Lake of Fire. Satan wants to take your zeal for the kingdom of God from you. To sit in an easy chair, and have a no concern for the lost and dying is a great hypocrisy of the universalist. You attitude is a disgrace to the God who made you. You must repent.

@nistan3

2 жыл бұрын

@@christophergibson7155 Believe what you want brother. Peace

Sin is Hell. Hell is a place in our minds and hearts (matter) but also a place we live in space and time. We DO choose. We choose sin & allowed to do so by God. We have a will, but until we freely choose Love, it is not free, it is bound. God, like a parent, made a space for us to live in matter for a time - so that we'd see our fig leaves and realize we need our Helper. To freely love Him, we needed to willfully reject Him, and through His Forgiveness (Grace) for us it would break even the hardest heart (soil) so the seed (HIMSELF) could find space in our matter and grow in time. All space, time and matter is relative to LIGHT, aka JESUS. We are saved by Grace through HIS FAITH in HIS WORD, for it won't return void. We love because He first loved us ...

@Chrissiela

2 жыл бұрын

@ Moses R. Interestingly, James tells us: "The tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell." And what does the rich man, in hades, say about the flame that torments him? Where is it? It's a parable in a series of parables... all about the same subject, which is what? (If don't understand the meaning of the parable(s), you might just be reading it wrong.)

@willbachman1501

2 жыл бұрын

@Joshua Xu please for the love of god (pun intended) read ALL of Mark 4, and see the lens in which you can view what this gentlemen is saying. The Bible has endless meanings with many lenses to be viewed in, its proof alone of gods existence. I really don’t believe man could write such perfection in literature. It is art through humans made by god.

@troywright359

11 ай бұрын

that's not in the Bible. Where does God say 'hell is a place in your mind"?

John Paul II, General Audience, Dec. 27, 1978 - “Jesus is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity become a man; and therefore in Jesus, human nature and therefore the whole of humanity, is redeemed, saved, ennobled to the extent of participating in ‘divine life’ by means of Grace.” John Paul II, Redemptoris Missio (# 4), Dec. 7, 1990 - “The Redemption event brings salvation to all, ‘for each one is included in the mystery of the redemption and with each one Christ has united himself forever through this mystery.’”

@marcusmuse4787

11 ай бұрын

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” is from the Bible, 1 Corinthians 15:22. It means that just as all people die because of Adam’s sin, all people can have eternal life because of Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross.

If Universalism is true why does Jesus want us to spread his message? If everyone will be saved what is the point?

@skb282

3 жыл бұрын

To start building his Kingdom on earth. If only some will be saved then why did Jesus die on the cross for the sins of the world?

@nistan3

3 жыл бұрын

So we can have an "abundant life" now, and not live in the captivity of our minds torments. John 10:8-10 Peace

@AtreyuKhalil

2 жыл бұрын

@@skb282 start building his kingdom on earth? What?!?!!😆 God is going to make a new Heaven and a New Earth (Revelation 21) so why would we need to preach the gospel if everyone is going to be saved. You think God needs us to build His Kingdom on earth? 2 Corinthians 5:1 says “For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens” God doesn’t need us to build his Kingdom on earth He needs us to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ so people can hear the Word and believe it and have faith and be saved. Saved from what? Saved from hell!!! What is the use of the Gospel to save people if everyone is gonna be saved whether they hear the gospel or not? Universalism contradicts and opposes The Word and everything Christ said. Christ own parables are all giving comparisons and distinctions of believers and unbelievers so why would he teach that way if everyone will be saved? In 2 Timothy 4:1-4 is shows that all these false opposing doctrines exist and universalism is one of those doctrines that doesn’t align with scripture. 4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

@smiffypop333

2 жыл бұрын

So we can spread love and kindness without judgement to one another. Jesus' gift to all of us is eternal life, but we an still make out world a better place, even through the smallest kindness.

Before you form an opinion on any theological issue, are you forming that opinion based on Calvinism? If yes, why?

Either everyone is saved, or no one is.

1 Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam ALL die, so also in Christ shall ALL be made alive!" ALL! ....except.... Elijah did not die. Enoch did not die. ....so does ALL always mean ALL?

How about the history of ECT from the Roman Catholics primarily Augustine and emperor Justinian I?

@sonnymustarseed7034

2 жыл бұрын

And from earlier influences of Zeus and other pagan views of aneternally angry god, not the GOD of the bible

@mburumorris3166

11 ай бұрын

Catholics also have the doctrine of relent , whereby they teach nuns and priests in some seminaries that Hell is not eternal but that this knowledge should not be shared widely. I do not think most dominicans believe in ECT.

Jesus is the Savior of the World. (Jn4:42/1Jn4:14/1Tim4:9-11)

How about lead people to their Savior. Not their potential Savior. My2Cents

It's ironic that John Stott did not even believe in eternal torment, the view you espouse! Christians needs to hold loosely to the specific temporal component of hell, it is an embarrassment. Universalists on the other hand have to beware of the danger of hell. Eternal or temporary, it is a very real and disastrous punishment for those that resist the gospel in this life.

Though calvinisim is a wicked heresy I have to agree with them that universalisim is heresy

@alwaysadawg6488

Жыл бұрын

God desires that all be saved. So...God's desire is heresy? Interesting opinion.

Go back to St Gregory of Nyssa who wrote the Creed, St Macrina the Elder St Isaac of Syria, all who had the bible much earlier than you. St Augustine who started original sin even speaks of many people who believed this in his day who were scripture believing people. Your investigation falls far short and you may want to go back and do more research

@TheHumbuckerboy

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting also that theologian Thomas Talbot ,the author of 'The Inescapable Love of God' has said that he couldn't find any record of anyone else before St Augustine who had taught that certain individuals were predestined to Hell before Augustine taught that idea.

Whoa! The title of this video just really pissed me off so here I am. First off WHY does it have to have opposition in the 1st place?!? Chaos? Division? I could have SWORN that judging was God's thing. Oh wait. That's right. God's word only applies when & where you want it to apply.

+Jason Sage..how about this context? Matthew 5:39. You just called Jesus Christ a fruitcake. Good Luck with that. You Christians don't even know what Jesus said.

@jasonsage1417

6 жыл бұрын

I didn't call Jesus a fruitcake... I called you a fruitcake - not like I swore at you or anything and Resist not Evil doesn't make any sense out of context. You just accused me of calling Jesus a fruitcake though - that's 9th commandment territory there - "Thou shall not bear false witness" - I just called you a fruitcake. I would of answered sooner but you didn't reply, so I wasn't notified... there is a reply button that causes notification to go out. Context does wonders, fruitcake: Matthew 5:39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. Now that - makes sense. That's SAINT School. In disciple school, we just punch the bastard who slapped our SAINT's cheeks! :)

what is the need to oppose the truth. universal salvation is the truth.

@samuelrosenbalm

9 күн бұрын

Universalism is a damnable lie that is not consistent with scripture. It's not what the Apostles taught, it's not what the apostolic fathers believed, and it's clear from the writings of the early church that the traditional view of hell was the predominant view, and with very few exceptions.

Calvinism is "Alive and Well" --- How Do We Oppose It?

@commanderchair

6 жыл бұрын

John Q. Public by not reading Romans 9 or Ephesians 1

@Anonymous-yr4yd

6 жыл бұрын

Hahaha xD I assume that you are being comedic, John. Ignore these: 2 Timothy 1:9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not because of our own works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time eternal. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we should always thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth. John 6:44 44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

@JohnQPublic11

6 жыл бұрын

The problem is Calvinists don’t have the foggiest clue what Romans 9, Ephesians 1, 2 Timothy 1:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, John 6:44, or any other verse of the Bible actually says!

@Anonymous-yr4yd

6 жыл бұрын

@John Q. Public I would appreciate it if you took the effort to enlighten us as to the meaning of these scriptures. While you are at it, I would like you to explain how men could come to God in their own right, in light of these scriptures. Romans 3:10-11 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Romans 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law, indeed, it cannot. Psalm 53:2-3 2God looks down from heaven upon the sons of men to see if any understand, if any seek God. 3 All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.

@JohnQPublic11

6 жыл бұрын

Anonymous --- One way of many ways of explaining those scriptures is to grasp the concept that there are several covenants in the Bible and every single one of them is a conditional if/then covenant, i.e. *"IF"* the person does what they are asked to do by GOD *"THEN"* GOD will do what HE promised to do! Which proves that Calvinisms habit of mindlessly misquoting scriptural verses out of context is a non sequitur.

Opposing God's Plan for all of His creation? Really??? You sure you're a Christian?

THE SALVATION OF ALL IS THE TRUTH! It’s all over scripture and once you discover Hell and Eternal Torment are lies Based on Mis-translations of the English Bible It becomes much more clear to Understand☺️

@StoogesTheTwo

4 жыл бұрын

No. Forcing believers to choose hell or him is not a truly all loving god. For a all loving god to exist he would need to have mercy for everyone, even people who don't happen to be christian. Any other path isn't love, its tyranny

@austincobb2099

4 жыл бұрын

@@StoogesTheTwo that's what he said. All people will be saved. Christians miss the point. From the first page to the end of the Bible, God is saying "I'll meet you where you are, but I'm not like the gods before me. I need no blood. I need no sacrifice. You need to do nothing. You are a child of mine and nothing will ever change that." The book lights up when you see that.

@StoogesTheTwo

4 жыл бұрын

@@austincobb2099 Christians are in for a big surprise when they see people they prayed would burn in hell in heaven

@austincobb2099

4 жыл бұрын

@@StoogesTheTwo they need to step outta hell to see what's going on in heaven, my man. They hadn't showed up to the party yet, I just look on with the empathy of my creator. I don't sweat about what they do, God is making all things new. That's the good news. God is making all things new and there's not one thing you can do to change it. Hop on board though...you'll see what heaven really is. It's right here. We're going nowhere.

We don't, embrace it!!!

@jhq9064

Жыл бұрын

"He gets us" and hopefully that ministry gets it (the Victorious Gospel / Historical Christian Universalism erc.)

I’m not fully convinced of either side, so I’m coming at this with an open mind. And I have to say this was basically a waste of 10 minutes. He didn’t make one argument against universalism

I don’t see it this way you guys, He died for every single sin not just ours the Bible says. 1 Timothy 4:10 New International Version That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. 1 John 2:2 NIV He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. Love you! And God bless! Enjoy your Christmas :)

@christophergibson7155

2 жыл бұрын

You have misinterpreted 1 Timothy 4:10 This is an emphasis by Paul to say that salvation is not just for the Jews only but for "all people" including the Gentile nations everywhere. Not implying that "all will be saved". So deceiving not to read the scripture in context.

@mattr.1887

Жыл бұрын

Christopher, it says He is the Savior of all. Not the condemner of most.

@jhq9064

Жыл бұрын

@@christophergibson7155 I used to think like you do until I learned what aion and olam really mean and in context. Luke 2:10, 1 Cor. 15:20-28 *v22, Ephesians 1:9-11 among many others etc.

@christophergibson7155

Жыл бұрын

@@mattr.1887 Then you have to examine all of scripture in the context if was designed to be studied: "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46) The same word in Greek is used for "everlasting" and "eternal". It means forever, without end. "The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" (Matthew 13:41-43)

@JTomas96

Жыл бұрын

@@christophergibson7155 So according to you Satan is God? "The God of this Aion has blinded the minds of them that believe not..." According to you Jude was confused and use Aidiois Which TRULY means eternal and in the next verse uses your loved Aionios to describe SODOM'S FIRE. IS SODOM STILL BURNING??

The cross of Christ tells us that sin is a Curse. When used as an ornament around the neck, a cross says little about the ugliness of sin. But when we look at sin through the cross of Christ, we see sin as God does: ugly, deforming, condemning, separating man from his Creator. Sin is so terrible that it made God send His only begotten Son to the cross to pay for its cost. Las Vegas does not present a true picture of sin. In the nightclubs and on TV, sin is glamorous, gaudy, fun, enticing, exhilarating. But sin causes death-separation from God (Rom. 6:23, Isa. 59:1-2). Jesus became a curse for us, hanging on the cross (Gal. 3:13), and I should see this when I see the cross.

"How do we oppose the gospel?" 🤣🤣🤣😳

Yes, how dare we spread love.

@TheHumbuckerboy

5 жыл бұрын

@ Chaos Beam ... Great comment !

@austincobb2099

4 жыл бұрын

I love your sense of humor. It's very evident in the gospels that telling people of the love they deserve, that has already been offered to them, is the way to go. Tell them who they are, not what to do or believe or say. Tell them who they are. This is who you are, and you cannot change it. You can deny it and live in hell, or accept it and love in fullness of life.

@r.jclark4641

3 жыл бұрын

Is it hate for a father to keep criminals and pedophiles out of his house full of children? No. Okay then, because that's why God has to keep certain people out of Heaven.

@FirstName-qc6fb

2 жыл бұрын

Proverbs 27:6 (ESV) Faithful are the wounds of a friend; profuse are the kisses of an enemy. John 5:34 (ESV) Not that the testimony that I receive is from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved. John 5:40-44 (ESV) 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. 41 I do not receive glory from people. 42 But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

@chaosbeam4654

2 жыл бұрын

@@r.jclark4641 I don’t what kind of loving father would allow his children to shame those for being gay and the like, but hey, whatever floats your boat i guess

Your message is , accuse,judge, condemn and threaten , We have an accuser who brings accusations before GOD , we have an advocate who defends us . Have you not heard of the GOODNEWS ? Or have you achieved pardon on your own merits ?

For some of us it’s either universalism or atheism. Either God is a loving father or not. You gonna send your children to hell? Didn’t think so. Edit: Could you imagine your pastor and congregation become universalists and see God as an actual loving father? Maybe they’d be happy and successful too. Idk sounds dangerous 🤦‍♂️

@christophergibson7155

2 жыл бұрын

But Jesus will judge the world in righteousness. Goats on His left, and sheep on His right.

@christianuniversalist

Жыл бұрын

@@christophergibson7155goats on His left still mean the goats are next to Him.

@christophergibson7155

Жыл бұрын

@@christianuniversalist Yes, the goats are on the left. To be separated from all of eternity. "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41)

@christianuniversalist

Жыл бұрын

@@christophergibson7155 Let’s begin with Matthew 25:46 because so many have appealed to this text in support of the following egregiously fallacious argument: If, according to Jesus, eternal life is literally unending life, then eternal punishment must also be unending torment (or at least unending separation from God). We can illustrate the fallacy in such reasoning, moreover, without entering into any controversy concerning the correct translation of the Greek “aionios” (whether, for example, it should be translated as “eternal,” “everlasting,” or simply “age enduring”). So let us simply grant, at least for the sake of argument, whichever of these translations a given person might prefer. Whatever its correct translation, “aionios” is clearly an adjective and must therefore function like an adjective, and it is the very nature of an adjective for its meaning to vary, sometimes greatly, depending upon which noun it qualifies. For more often than not, the noun helps to determine the precise force of the adjective. As an illustration, set aside the Greek word “aionios” for a moment and consider the English word “everlasting.” I think it safe to say that the basic meaning of this English word is indeed everlasting. So now consider how the precise force of “everlasting” varies depending upon which noun it qualifies. An everlasting struggle would no doubt be a struggle without end, an unending temporal process that never comes to a point of resolution and never gets completed. But an everlasting change, or an everlasting correction, or an everlasting transformation would hardly be an unending temporal process that never gets completed; instead, it would be a temporal process of limited duration, or perhaps simply an instantaneous event, that terminates in an irreversible state. So however popular it might be, the argument that “aionios” must have exactly the same force regardless of which noun it qualifies in Matthew 25:46 is clearly fallacious…

@christianuniversalist

Жыл бұрын

Continued… ….Accordingly, even if we should translate “aionios” with the English word “everlasting,” a lot would still depend upon how we understand the relevant nouns in our text: the nouns “life” (zoe) and “punishment” (kolasis). Now the kind of life in question, being rightly related to God, is clearly an end in itself, even as the kind of punishment in question seems just as clearly to be a means to an end. For as one New Testament scholar, William Barclay, has pointed out, “kolasis” “was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better.” Barclay also claimed that “in all Greek secular literature kolasis is never used of anything but remedial punishment”-which is probably a bit of a stretch, since the language of correction and the language of retribution often get mixed together in ordinary language. But in any event, if “kolasis” does signify punishment of a remedial or a corrective kind, as I think it does in Matthew 25:46, then we can reasonably think of such punishment as everlasting in the sense that its corrective effects literally endure forever. Or, to put it another way: An everlasting correction, whenever successfully completed, would be a temporal process of limited duration that terminates in the irreversible state of being rightly related to God. Certainly nothing in the context of Matthew 25 excludes such an interpretation. This would not be my preferred interpretation, however, because the English word “everlasting” does not accurately capture the special religious meaning that “aionios” typically has in the New Testament. Here is how I expressed my own understanding of this matter in Universal Salvation? The Current Debate, p. 46: The first point I would make is that on no occasion of its use in the New Testament does ‘aionios’ refer to a temporal process of unending duration. On a few occasions-as when Paul spoke of a ‘mystery that was kept secret for long ages (chronios aioniois) but is now disclosed’ (Rom. 16:25-26)-the adjective does imply a lengthy period of time. But on these occasions, it could not possibly mean ‘eternal’ or ‘everlasting’. On other occasions, its use seems roughly Platonic in this sense: Whether God is eternal (that is, timeless, outside of time) in a purely Platonic sense or everlasting in the sense that he endures throughout all of the ages, nothing other than God is eternal in the primary sense (see the reference to ‘the eternal God’ in Rom. 16:26). The judgements, gifts, and actions of God are eternal in the secondary sense that their causal source lies in the eternal character and purpose God. One common function of an adjective, after all, is to refer back to the causal source of some action or condition. [Endnote: A selfish act, for example, is one that springs from, or has its causal source in, selfish motives.] When Jude thus cited the fire that consumed Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of eternal fire, he was not making a statement about temporal duration at all; in no way was he implying that the fire continues burning today, or even that it continued burning for an age. He was instead giving a theological interpretation in which the fire represented God’s judgement upon the two cities. So the fire was eternal not in the sense that it would burn forever without consuming the cities, but in the sense that, precisely because it was God’s judgement upon these cities and did consume them, it expressed God’s eternal character and eternal purpose in a special way.

The cross of Christ tells us that I must become dead to the world and alive to God. "If then ye have been risen with Christ. . . " (Col. 3: 1) presupposes that we have died with Christ. "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God" (Col. 3:3). But how does one become dead to sin? "How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin" (Rom. 6:2-6). Yes, we must crucify the old man of sin. We must walk in newness of life after having been buried in Christ (Rom. 6:4). How is all this done? The bible says it is done when we are baptized “into Christ” (not pray into) for remission of sins (Acts 2:38, 22:16, Col. 2:11-12). I should see this when I see the cross. There is a cross for us to bear. It is not a silver or gold ornament with no real meaning but that of vanity and false humiliation. The cross that Jesus bore was that of "obedience unto death, yea, the death of the cross" (Phil. 2:8). All the ornamental jewelry and superstitious architecture in the world will not bring us any closer to the service of God unless we do understand it. Sacrificial Service Christ stated on more than one occasion, "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it" (Matthew 10:38-39, 16:24-25; Mark 8:34-35, Luke 9:23-24, 14:27).

Universalism is based unfortunately on the grounds that God Himself has set. by that I mean people have seen what God has done and taken it to an extreme. People see that God does not have favourites. They see that He will draw people regardless of skin colour. They see His mercy and love shown to those who do wrong. They see that people are equally sinners and all equally need Him. The emphasis on 'equal' makes them want to make all human beings equal eternally. No one left out, ever. Every person saved. It is a nice thing to think of. only happiness for all. Some even claim that demons and Satan will be saved and welcomed into heaven, because they can't bear to think of any part of God's creation cut off forever. I wonder what other nice things we can say. Maybe that everyone will get to do whatever they want in heaven. Whatever makes you happy. Your full desire and fulfiment will be met howevere you like it in heaven. I don't know how it's best to speak with people who become convinced that preaching anything less than this is evil and that people who don't say everyone will be saved should be mocked endlessly. Truth is irrelevant, when the only 'truth' allowed is Unlimited Comfort.

Frightening, the idea of the truth of 1 John 2:2

First of all, these calvinist/reformed theology guys believe that before God created anything, the vast majority of humans were elected to be tortured in hell forever with no opportunity to avoid that fate. THIS is their perverse believe about the character of God. So when they critique the belief in "Universal Restoration", I find it easy to dismiss their arguments.

God is not universal?

@iannicely1

6 жыл бұрын

Bernfried Müller He says in the beginning that universalism is the idea that ALL will be saved without exception... ALL will not be saved... there will be those who will be judged and sent to hell... another point he makes is a popular belief is “all roads lead to heaven”... that is not true... listen to the video again

@bernfriedmuller1614

6 жыл бұрын

Oh some will be saved in Hell (their heaven, ;-))., or? but I get your point and was not listining to it completly. JUST JUGED THE TITLE... SORRY! MEA CULPA! GOD BLESS YOU FOR CORRECTING ME. THATS HOW IT SHOULD BE IN EVERY CHURCH :-)

@bernfriedmuller1614

6 жыл бұрын

and I love the ministry and the work of John Piper.... by the way...man of god like you are a woman in christ... Thanks again...

@bernfriedmuller1614

6 жыл бұрын

YOU DID NOT JUGE ME BUT TOLD ME HOW CHRIST TELLS US...

@jesuguru2394

6 жыл бұрын

God created and sustains the universe, but is transcendent over it and distinct from it. Salvation, according to His Word, is not universal.

I was inclined to agree with the doctrine of Universalism, but was stopped in my tracks by 2 Thessalonians 1:9 - They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might

@christianuniversalist

Жыл бұрын

You were not inclined, who do you think you’re fooling? Also, learn Koine Greek.

@denzilboyd6719

Жыл бұрын

@@christianuniversalist I don't know how much fruit discussing this will bring, but I was inclined. I went through and wrote a document explaining why it might be viable Biblically referencing various verses, brought it up with my church, heard some arguments for it, but I also listened to arguments against it. And an article led me to the verse I mentioned. I think the doctrine of hell is Biblical.

@JTomas96

Жыл бұрын

Olam is not even an adjective, it just means "for an age". How come also in greek the same word for "Age" is used as "Eternal"??? According to these idiots, IS SODOM STILL BURNING? BECAUSE JUDE 1:7 SAYS SO. Are they teaching this in your church? "God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. 11THESE THINGS COMMAND AND TEACH."1Tim4:10-11 --------- "So then, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification of life for all men"Rom5:18

@JTomas96

Жыл бұрын

@@denzilboyd6719 Is sodom still burning? Jude 1:7 "FOR EVERYONE WILL BE SALTED BY FIRE, HAVE SALT THEREFORE AND HAVE PEACE ONE WITH ANOTHER"Mark9 So are wo all going to hell? Salt is needed for salvation. The damned will be salted with fire as well. Not only you.

@Tommythecat007

Жыл бұрын

You're right and I believe your inclination is God given and correct as love is not a doctrine. You quote the word eternal which is only relates to God. Eternal means without beginning and without end. So the obvious question is when did this eternal punishment start as the Bible refers it to a consequence of behaviour. Therefore it is impossible to be eternal as it now has a beginning. Eternal in the proper sense means God-given punishment and the word used in the scripture you quote is everlasting punishment(referring to time)not eternal. So one could say this is eternal everlasting punishment, meaning then, God-given punishment for a certain time or age. The scripture quotes in lamentations that no one(the word some is simply not there)is cast off by the lord forever. although he brings Grief/punishment he will show compassion for great is his unfailing love. I think the main undeniable fact for universal salvation is seen where Christ is rejected and nailed to the cross. If you read this context you will see what his very last prayer to the father was. "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." If God is love then universal salvation is the only possible Gospel. Unless you believe at the cross the father said no to the son, and therefore the cross was a complete waste of time.

The discussion here make it seem clear to me that we have a bunch of tares in the flock. There will be a separation in the end and for that I am grateful.

Even if universalism were to sound true in some respects, the Bible makes it clear that Satan and the Antichrist, as well as those who take the mark, will be tormented day and night forever and ever. And the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an eternal sin - those who do this never have forgiveness. So even if most are saved - certainly not all are saved, because you have to completely ignore scripture.

I don't see why you have to oppose it. It was a valid Orthodox position in the first five hundred years of the church. There are so many scriptures that point to the ultimate reconciliation of all. There are many conservative bible-believing Christians that embrace universal reconciliation. As Jesus said if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto myself. The spotless sinless Lamb of God Emmanuel God with paid our sin debt. That does not make me want to sin. It makes me want to praise him. In which all will do when every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the father. Why not start now. Christian reconciliation is just as valid a view as one saved always saved. Or The Armenian view of apostasy. Blessings to all who truly name the Lord Jesus as a savior of the whole world.

Amen

GALATIONS 1:9 If anyone preaches a gospel other than the one you accepted let them be eternally condemned......................The only people who preach the gospel message are Christians, end of.

Well I just can no longer get my head around a God who burns anything for an eternity. If anything God destroys in "hell" that person. Matthew 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." I've never once heard a pastor who preaches on fire and brimstone for an eternity tackle this piece of scripture. Never! And the reasons is because at worst it half way straight away destroys what they have believed their whole lives and at best it completely and utterly causes a change of heart. I mean most Christians are horrified at the idea that their is no Hell! And the fact that is true should straight away say something to them about their own heart. I can't any longer conceive of a God who burns anything for an eternity. That ...that doesn't make any sense. And being we are His creation made in His image I think at best it's more sensible to conclude God destroys those who do no believe. But then you have other issues arise like...... John 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." John 12:32 is a real problem for a person thinking God burns anyone in hell for an eternity. It's a real real big problem! So either you have to think Jesus didn't know what he was saying, which makes him not God, or believe something entirely different making up for yourself a new religion. Jesus said: " If I be lifted up will draw all men unto me ". And he was! If someone can explain to me why John 12:32 doesn't mean what it says then please do. .............................................................................................................................. But they will say..... Matthew "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." and I'd say to them.... me : That's a very good point Which leads me to where I am, and that is not knowing what is exactly right. I see contradictions in these idea of salvation for all, and burn in hell for all eternity. I see scripture contradicting itself and that's a real damn problem because God is perfect and their can't be any contradiction.

@doriesse824

2 жыл бұрын

Everlasting means "age-long", not eternal. There will be an "Age of correction" where they will go through the refiner's fire.

@jamesjeson6207

2 жыл бұрын

I know “Christians”(?) who don’t go to church. They don’t worship God one hour a week much less for eternity in heaven. That would be hell for them. Their focus is on Me Me Me not God. There is no duration in hell. There is no time in the spiritual realm. No time-no change. Time is change. The soul, separated from the body, hasn’t the senses to change its will, similar to the angelic wills. If we all wind up in heaven, then it doesn’t matter what we do on earth. Preaching is moot. Jesus says in verse Matt 26:24, woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man. It would be better for him if he had not been born. That destroys the heresy of universalism. Man’s body is infused with the breath of God which is his soul which cannot be annihilated.

@doriesse824

2 жыл бұрын

@@jamesjeson6207 How does it necessarily destroy universalism? That verse doesn't tell the ultimate outcome, which universalists say is salvation. Doesn't mean the process is pleasant, and they may indeed for a while wish they'd never been born.

@jamesjeson6207

2 жыл бұрын

@@doriesse824 How does it destroy universalism? Because he won’t eventually be in heaven for betraying the Son of Man. How do we know that? Jesus said not being born is the better choice for him. A better choice compared to heaven? No, compared to hell. Not being born precludes heaven at all.

@doriesse824

2 жыл бұрын

@@jamesjeson6207 I think you're missing the point that hell is not eternal. "Forever and ever" means "for an age", or more literally "ages and ages". Aonios. One "forever" would be eternal, so why add another "and ever"? It's a mistranslation.

You don't....Acts 5:37-39 Common English Bible 37 Afterward, at the time of the census, Judas the Galilean appeared and got some people to follow him in a revolt. He was killed too, and all his followers scattered far and wide. 38 Here’s my recommendation in this case: Distance yourselves from these men. Let them go! If their plan or activity is of human origin, it will end in ruin. 39 If it originates with God, you won’t be able to stop them. Instead, you would actually find yourselves fighting God!” The council was convinced by his reasoning.

It is disgusting to see the goodness, love, and compassion God has towards the worst of sinners and to have a kneejerk reaction, opposing it in favor of "orthodoxy." The title of this damnable video might as well have been, Christianity is alive and well - How do we oppose it? Or, God's Love is alive and well - how do we oppose it?

Believe in Christ as the only begotten of the Father, and your Savior and Redeemer. Confess that it is only through Him that we may be saved. Repent and ask Him for forgiveness. That's Christianity. Anything beyond this is pedantry. Predestination, universalism, the immaculate conception, transubstantiation, etc. Regardless of which, if any of these or other such doctrines are true, believing in them or not believing in them won't help save you. Only Christ can do that.

So you know that Christian Universalism says that all are saved because of the cross, but the response to it should be to "preach the cross"? Yes, preach the cross that you believe will only be effective at saving some but the person you are addressing believes saves all. Maybe also tell the universalist how effective Jesus is as seeking and saving the lost and how God will be the "all in all" not the "all in some" or any number of other things that support their position.

@jasonsage1417

6 жыл бұрын

nothing in the bible puts any weight on the cross, not to preach cross, praise cross, wear cross, pray to cross, kneel in front of Cross... All CRAP. Preach the Good news of the Kingdom, Preach Jesus Parables, Not the Cross. That's a torture/execution device. Your faith makes you well, not a cross.

@stinnetbennet

6 жыл бұрын

The cross is just a symbol of Christianity and Christ's triump over death. You know.... like how WORDS are SYMBOLS of THINGS TOO! (think the word God) Iconoclasm is self refuting

@jasonsage1417

6 жыл бұрын

No, mens traditions and doctrines are self refuting... I'm stating fact. I've seen a person "leave a church" because they put up a dove in place of a cross... foolishness breeds foolishness.

@stinnetbennet

6 жыл бұрын

foolish like not realizing you are trying to start a new tradition? do you know the what the word means? it's always these weird little schismatics who think they've figured it all out, supposedly by just reading the Bible... which is funny since the Bible references non biblical texts like Enoch. So is it sola scriputra? sola fide? all of it? is your relative reading of the Bible actually true? no it's not.

@jasonsage1417

6 жыл бұрын

I'm saying venerating a cross isn't scripturally supported... You have a problem with that?

Philippians 3 : 19 " Their end is destruction : their god is their belly : that in which they glory is their shame. Men in whose whole minds are earthbound."

@Tommythecat007

4 жыл бұрын

Yep that part of the story, not the end of it. The story isn't based on men ...thank God

@austincobb2099

4 жыл бұрын

@@Tommythecat007 thank God, we'd be in hell!...oh wait...

@jhq9064

Жыл бұрын

Are you an annihilationist?

@denissutherland3653

Жыл бұрын

@@jhq9064 I pray rhat whatever I say and write is underpinned by Jesus as in his Bible.

@jhq9064

Жыл бұрын

@@denissutherland3653 and not putting tradition above Truth. John 12:32 & Rev. 21:4-5. Was Saul destroyed when God made him Paul? Most believers agree Sodom was destroyed in Genesis, however Ezekiel 16:53 states "I will restore their fortunes, both the fortunes of Sodom and daughters, and the fortunes of Samaria and her daughters, and..." v.55 "As for your sisters, Sodom and her daughters shall return to their former state..." as Ezekiel was many centuries after Genesis, just something to think about.

Jesus said.."Resist Not evil.". There is your answer.

@bernfriedmuller1614

6 жыл бұрын

resist no eveil. looks like you forgot that jesus said he is all over the old testament. if you did not resist eveil you cn go to hell... get yourself educted disbeliever....

@jasonsage1417

6 жыл бұрын

Dumbest Jesus Post I ever saw! Satanists make more sense than you. Resist not Evil? Needs a little context fruitcake.

The sin argument is an interesting one. Christian apologists claim that Adam and Eve were created perfect but they had freewill - hence why they sinned. The problem with this claim is that if they were created perfect then they should have always made perfect decisions. Imperfection does not give birth to perfection. That goes against the rules of logic. PERFECTION BEGATS PERFECTION. IMPERFECTION BEGATS IMPERFECTION. Logic always wins. Therefore, the Christian apologists claim is completely wrong from a logical standpoint - of course, that is if we are using the same logical parameters to assess this topic in the same way we would assess everything else in life. Of course, the Eden story is entirely mythological - but Christian apologists interpret the story literally - thats the problem. You see foks, All the geographical locations in the bible are actually real - so are the various people groups mentioned in the bible. But all the stories are entire mythological and consist of allegory and metaphor. In fact, all the worlds organised religions are actually the same in this manner. Ancient Humans were simply trying to understand the world around them and their greater purpose - so they wrote what they SURMISED was Gods nature and mixed in their own folklore tales with it. They then put these ALLEGORICAL hybrid tales into books and the resulting end products are what you would call the so called "holy books" from the various people groups around the world. There is nothing surprising about this. Thats just human beings behaving like human beings. Throughout the thousands of years people groups from around the world have done this. The trick is to make the various resulting religions work for YOU. Rather than YOU working for these religions. Hell was not taught as a lake of fire in the Old Testament. The greek idea of hell in the New Testament is very easy to explain. Let us first examine the Jews. The orthodox Jews claim that both Christianity and Islam are actually BASTARDISATIONS of orthodox Judaism. The orthodox Jews do not believe in hell as a place of eternal torture by fire. That would explain why greek ideas of hell have been put in Jesus's mouth by the greek writers of the New Testament. Especially, considering that in order for any person to learn greek 2000 years ago the only greek writings actually available to actually PRACTICE learning the greek language were greek mythological epics which documented precisely greek ideas of hell. For example, Hades and Tartarus are terms for hell copied straight from the greek mythological epics which contained these concepts and ideas. People simply learnt these Greek epics as a way of practicing reading and writing greek as the main greek writings were all mythological works. The New Testament writers then copied these greek ideas of hell into the greek New Testament they were writing. The New Testament is a fusion of Judaism and Greek mythology. Hellinistic Judaism is well documented by Orthodox Jews themselves. It was eventually suppressed - but It re-emerged as New Testament Christianity in 325ad. The difference is that this time it was backed by the state of Rome in what became known as Roman Catholicism. ALL, the various protestant denominations copied these doctrines as they branched off from Roman Catholicism. They left out other doctrines and took the main doctrines into their new Protestant version of Christianity.

@doriesse824

2 жыл бұрын

If the Eden story is entirely mythological, where did the evil cabal come from, and why did Jesus tell them they were the offspring of the Devil?

The Doctrine of ECT (Eternal Conscious Torment) cheapens the work and accomplishment of what the Lord Jesus did on the cross!

@willbachman1501

2 жыл бұрын

Perhaps it is the hell that some Christian’s pridefully and lustfully believe in. God forgive me if I am wrong.

+Bernfried Muller..people like you are why we have wars! It is amazing to me..how many people do not even know what Jesus said. It is you who is uneducated. Get your bible and read Matthew 5:39. Read a little further where Jesus says to Love your enemy. You may be a Christian but you are Not a follower of Jesus Christ. You don't even know Who He Is. I have found very few Christians who even know what Jesus said.

AMEN

Why does this guy sound like ownage pranks

I do not see the love of Christ in anybody that can justify a "creatio ex nihilo" where anybody does not find their consummate end in the one that created them. If you somehow can then congratulations, your religion has corrupted your conscious.

@FirstName-qc6fb

2 жыл бұрын

Romans 9:18-23 (ESV) 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. 19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory

@Jordan-hz1wr

2 жыл бұрын

@@FirstName-qc6fb Romans 9 is part of a diatribe that concludes at the end of chapter 11. Romans 9 cannot be understood apart from Pauls ultimate conclusion “therefore God has consigned all to disobedience so that he may have mercy on all.”

Mhm if God was so lax about sin (since you can continue sinning in the Universalism viewpoint cause at the end everyone gets saved anyway along with all the mass murderers and rapists etc who spit in the face of God), then it makes one wonder why He gotta kick Eve and Adam out of the garden just for eating a damn fruit. 😂 Since the Father is such a pushover by His children, cause He loves them so much despite being rebellious little shits, there was really no need to kick them out the garden or sending Jesus to die for our sins cause sin apparently really isn't that big of a deal if we all get saved anyway.

@joecheffo5942

3 ай бұрын

Universalists still believe sinners go to a painful process of purification. If a child misbehaves should they be spanked or thrown off a building? Would the parent be a "pushover" for just spanking them?

Every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. 1 Corinthians 12:3 ESV - Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.

Put God first in everything you do because death can come at any time! To die without making peace with God is the worse thing that can happen to anyone! Because the next time your eyes be open you will find yourself at the judgement seat of God! We all have to stand before God oneday! V 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. Isa 45:22-23 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. v 2Co 5:10-11 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. v Rom 14:10-13 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. v Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the BOOKS WERE OPENED. Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. 1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Nope, the wicked will be judged and then perish and disappear. They will be no more. No eternal torment for anyone.

@dalekelley

3 жыл бұрын

So Christ, having died for the sins of the world, wasn't sufficient?

@Mrm1985100

3 жыл бұрын

@@dalekelley There's free will...

@dalekelley

3 жыл бұрын

@@Mrm1985100 "Free" will? You think your will is free? You don't believe anything or anyone (not even God) is influencing your decision making? Romans 8:20 "For the creation was subjected to futility, NOT WILLINGLY, but because of Him who subjected it..." (emphasis mine)

@dalekelley

3 жыл бұрын

@@Mrm1985100 You think you're "free" of the curse all of mankind has been subject to since Adam ate of the fruit?

@dalekelley

3 жыл бұрын

@@Mrm1985100 You actually believe your will is free? Prove it to me. "Will" to not eat or drink ANYTHING for the rest of the year. Then tell me how long you lasted till your "will" was changed.

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world ( SATAN )hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. 1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Act 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. 2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.2Pe 3:14.Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.