Mark...as you know we took a different approach. After 3 yrs of failure with no till, we began to lightly disc or rototill and use very little fertilizer. We just got our soil samples back this week and the organic matter range is from 2.6-3.6. We are a little low on potassium in one field, otherwise things look good. We are planting beans this week just to add some green matter and will disc them under before planting our food plots in August. We generally plant peas/beans and brassica/ radish combinations in different plots with a low amount of fertilizer at the time of planting. We had our best plots last year and killed our target buck. We were overwhelmed with mares tail 2 years ago and had to replant all our plots twice. We tried 2-4D and it did stunt it somewhat, but did not kill it. We sprayed Dicamba which contains some 2-4D and it smoked it. We have NONE in any of our plots this year, and will go back to spraying RU and 2-4D. We are looking forward to some rain and good food plots in August. Keep us posted and thanks for sharing. Bob

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

Hey Bob, great to hear from you, hope all is well over there on the other side. The 2-4-d spray I added does have some Dicamba in it, I hope it was enough to smoke the Nightmares Tale here too. I'm probably being too stubborn on this, but I'm going to keep going down this no-till trail, making the adjustment to add spraying for weeds back into the arsenal (basically replacing the $5,000 roller/cimper with my already paid for sprayer). All the best to you!

@rfb7117

Жыл бұрын

Great...let me know how the crimper works for you. As I said we are spraying, lighting discing, and planting first a green source for soil improvement and then our food plots in early August. I think it is good to compare different ways of accomplishing the task and getting good results. We had our 6th worst May for rain in history, we got less than an inch...and none in sight for a week or so. Good luck and keep the video's coming. Bob

I enjoy watching your journey mark!

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! It's fun. All the best to you.

You should have Dr. Grant Woods visit and get his input. Would be interested to hear what he has to say!

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

Hey Chris, good idea. I saw a video he had of a landowner in Texas that has sand foodplots, and is getting great (relative) results compared to a few years ago. I'll have to look into that. All the best to you.

Im in norther ND and I run a mix of brassica, turnipa, winter wheat, winter rye and clover. Offers great tonnage and offers food from end of summer through winter and into spring green up with the clover and winter wheat and rye.

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info. Looks like a great mix, glad it is working so well. All the best to you.

Maybe a light tillage to push some matter in the soil. I think John from Northwoods did a video about that. I agree about the radishes, I use jackhammer brand in all my blends.

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

Hey Justin, I have a buddy doing this with great results, certainly a consideration if I can't get this figured out. But, I like the challenge right now, so I'll give in a few more years and if I need to switch to light tillage, so be it. I haven't planted Jackhammer before, maybe I'll give that a try. All the best to you.

Good to see your update Mark. I'm about two years behind you in my attempts to do much as you are doing here. Without a doubt my work load and expense has gone way down. I have not used a disk or tiller in the past few years. I decided last year that I would no longer do any "summer release" planting....as I have too short of a growing season to do so many things. Now....I have 8 acres of clover and rye that is quite strong and mostly weed free (tho I did spot spray one 3 acre plot to kill considerable mullein in the rosette stage.). Like most, we are quite dry here this year. In late June I plan to terminate some strips in my clover with roundup. Then I will plant my fall brasica mix into these strips and then roller crimp all my plots to gain some mulch over the other clover and the brasica I just planted. In late August I will brodcast more clover and rye into the Brasica plots and drill the same clover and rye into the existing clover areas that surround the brasica plots. Rinse and repeat next year. It seems my need for fertilizer is greatly diminished (maybe none this year?). Still.....I'm going to need some rain pretty soon to realize my goals for the year. Of note tho.....is that I did sell my Tar River 505 and bought a used 3P500 Great Plains drill. I'm kinda a machinery junkie.....so, I'm hoping that I can get a somewhat longer life from the new (to me) Great Plains product....and hopefully better drilling depths and accuracy. Time will tell. Always interesting to see how your doing with your practices. Best.

@BridgeChurchVaBeach

Жыл бұрын

How long of life did you get from the Tar River 505?

@tompeterson3296

Жыл бұрын

@@BridgeChurchVaBeach I owned it for two years and planted about 40 acres or so. I sold it for a higher priced drill....as I am somewhat of a machinery junkie and like "good tools". The drill worked fine....and the guy that bought it paid me about what I paid for it. It was set up correctly and did the job just fine. I got no bad words for the Tar River at the price point it is offered.

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

Hey Tom, good to hear from you. Guess we'll call the Tar River an "entry drug". Before you know it, you'll have a brand new Genesis drill and Goliath crimper, LOL. Sounds like you have a good plan, keep at it. Also, let me know your thoughts on the Great Plains drill after you give it a workout. All the best to you.

@tompeterson3296

Жыл бұрын

@@theback40 Hey Mark. Well.....I do have a Goliath 6" Crimper......but rather than a Genesis 5, I figured with my sand I would be better served with the Great Plains 3P5900 as compared to a Genesis 5 lite. Time will tell.

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

@@tompeterson3296 Ah, got it. Please keep us updated on your thoughts as you get a chance to use it for a while.

I wonder if tilling / plowing once every so many years to turn that good top organic matter deeper into the soil would help? I have some sandy soil that I am also trying to decide what is the best methods to improve the ground.

@theback40

3 ай бұрын

Hey Andrew, good question, but based on my research, this would set us backward quite a bit. Two reasons: 1) anytime you work the soil, too much oxygen is introduce to the system resulting in "burning up" the organic matter, and 2) more organic matter is produced by the ROOTS of plants than the tops of plants, and so we just need to leave that root residue down in the sand to rot into organic matter each year. Just my two cents, certainly not an expert. All the best to you.

I have a question for you, and I promise I'm not trying to be a smarty... If the goal of your 40 acres is for recreation and deer hunting purposes, at the end of the day why do you care at all what the organic matter is? My point being if you are reaching your hunting goals with your current organic matter, who cares what it is... If you're not reaching your hunting goals, would increasing your organic matter change that? I don't think that you are, but it seems like so many of the people pushing the soil health stuff are sponsored by people who are making the no-till drills and roller crimpers, seed, etc. Thoughts? And, thank you for the content. Good to see genuine stuff.

@dustinwaldron2010

Жыл бұрын

The OM % increase allows him to hold more moisture which is what you want in these drought conditions. 3.5 % OM equates to 3.5 inches of moisture holding capacity near the surface. Also the higher the OM the better plots like brassica, turnips, or other high demanding plants will thrive. Another note, 2/3 of your OM is generated under the soil from root structure not always the biomass or residue on surface.

@tompeplinski

Жыл бұрын

@@dustinwaldron2010 I understand organic matter. As someone who has farm production acres I get that. Respectfully, I don't know the reason for so much emphasis on it for a hunter. There is no argument here that I'm trying to make. My idea or definition of a successful food plot is one that helps me reach my hunting goals. I can't help but think, this soil health emphasis for food plots is being driven by sponsorships and money? Just trying to wrap my head around it all.

@timothy199662002

Жыл бұрын

organic matter = heathier soil = bigger antlers. cattle farmers are actually grass farmers. the foliage is the transfer agent of nutrients to the cattle. Same with deer.

@tompeplinski

Жыл бұрын

@@timothy199662002but deer are not cattle. They are selective eaters. They eat what they want, where they want. Raising organic matter from 2 to 5 percent on a couple acres of food plots would barely be a blip in a deer's diet, especially in farm country. Not seeing the connection there.

@timothy199662002

Жыл бұрын

@@tompeplinski Deer starve twice a year in farm country and are selective eaters. thats why you plant 7 species in a food plot to keep something palatable growing at all times of the year. Raising the organic mater just helps the plants youre planting fulfill their potential and make them more palatable. it worked pretty well for the buffalo. this effort just imitates nature. check out grant woods. he is the person who is making this popular. he and the green cover seed guy keith burns, can enlighten you about organic mater.

Mark - I tried to comment but maybe it got deleted? I’d be happy to help you with soil tests and explain the reason for variability and how you can improve soil. Been a big fan of show!’keep up good work!!

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

Must have been deleted somehow, but I got this message! I'll say the comment section of KZread seems to have some strange glitches at times. I'll get an email about a comment, and then go to KZread to replay and it is nowhere to be found. Then two weeks later it will show up again. Very strange. Anyway, I'd love to send you the sample results and get your comments. I'll try to find a way to direct message. All the best to you.

@VitalizeSeed

Жыл бұрын

@@theback40 thanks so much! Happy to help.

Just resprayed my food plot today over here in Vassar. I don't think were ever going to get any rain. I have an issue with ferns where Im at. I extended my food plot and the original dont get any ferns but the new part does and it drives me mad. Every year theres less and less and I cant wait for the year theres none lol. Good luck this year Mark.

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

Hey Randy, LOL. I don't know what the word "rain" means anymore? It was so wet and cold in April, and then a turn around.....May only had .5" of rain here, ugh. Best of luck to you this year too!

@tdawgcj7

Жыл бұрын

So far I have found the best thing for ferns is LOTS of lime! RU as they are just coming up and mowing after they are fully out

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

@@tdawgcj7 Lime is such a PITA, heavy, dusty, doesn't work in a spreader, ugh. But, if you use the ag stuff, it will last a long time.

@brodychapman8348

Жыл бұрын

I’ve heard that ferns are a sign of low ph as well. See if you can rent a rhino limer or ground buster drop spreader for pulverized lime.

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

@@brodychapman8348 Good idea Brody. We have a farm supplier in our area that loads your lime in a spreader trailer you rent from them. Haul it home with a truck/tractor and then just have to drive it over your plots.

Try a light disking. You won't have to worry about only roots in the soil. You will have 2/3rds of the whole plant in the ground. You will have to spray for a season or 2 but then it will be only when you feel it is needed.

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

I am seeing others start doing this technique, looks like a good one. Will be following others to see how this works out. All the best to you.

Organic matter is basically free nitrogen, roughly 10 pounds per percent organic matter. Corn could help increase organic matter because of it's fibrous root system. What is the CEC of your soils? The lower the CEC the less of anything the soil can hold. John

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

Hey John, thank you for commenting. I did put just a little bit of grazing corn in my mix this year, but that is a great idea for next year. I have grown corn successfully out here before, so now you have me thinking about bumping up the concentration significantly next year. I'll be looking more into this prior to next planting season. All the best to you.

You can go ahead and drill right after spraying. It won’t hurt the seeds.

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

Hey Steve, even with the 2-4-D in the mix?

@rfb7117

Жыл бұрын

Mark...I believe there is a residual with 2-4D and certainly Dicamba. I usually wait 2 weeks. Bob

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

@@rfb7117 Thanks Bob, I'm at two weeks as of today, so just waiting for rain now.

I have been doing no till for 5 yrs or so now just like you. I went all in from day 1 and did a drill and roller crimper. At this point I really feel like I bought the "kool aid" and while the idea seems good in theory practicality it just doesn't happen the way it is portrayed in videos 90% of the time. It's all about no till, diversity etc right now. We could probably accomplish almost the same thing not buying seed and just kill unwanted weeds for a couple cycles and then let native vegetation take over. Burn cycles with it and accomplish the same thing. I've done the radishes and brassicas yearly alternating sides on my plots and unfortunately even thought they grow well they will still hit that pan line and grow more out of the ground. Tons of rotting debris at the end of the year, but organic matter isn't affected much. Fertilizer costs go down as in your analysis too, but with a mix of plants I think that is expected. However we end up buying more seeds for summer plots, fuel, time etc it's probably not that cost effective. We would probably be just as well off to let the fields of clover and rye/oats etc go until the fall plots are ready. For my soil types it seems that working the ground a bit allows for better seed coverage and germination and I only did that at the very beginning before my drill purchase. Course I could always stick with smaller seeds and it seems to do ok. I also just don't buy the idea that a mixed plot has the drawing power of a standard bean, brassica, clover type plot. In the end I'm in it to kill big deer and secondarily improve the land so priority with food plot seed will follow that. The roller crimper was a great idea and I was really excited about it. Drilled right through it and crimped it over and didn't spray at all. I did have some food plot seed emerging--I think the green cover that you mentioned---but also a ton of weeds including mares tail. Seemed to stunt the crop and I had more pockets of weeds that actual food plot. There are so many factors to consider when determining setups and processes. I think if you are in a good soil area it may have some merit to it. However, I really don't think it's practical to think we can take average type soil and make it into fertile midwestern type soil. I'm really to the point that for me the ideal process is likely light disking and then drilling my food plots. There really is no chance that I can achieve a good food plot without chemical weed control either. Good in principle but there are better methods out there for what deer hunters are trying to accomplish IMO.

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

Hey Brandon, well said. Seems that we are on the same timeline with the same results. I agree with you that there are many factors to consider, including the human factor of goals and perceptions. My adjustments are going to be adding my sprayer and herbicide back into the process, and more targeted plant varieties for my dry sandy soil instead of the generic "off the shelf" mixes. I'll give this a go for a few years and see how the soil responds. I started this whole thing 5 years ago to try holding more moisture in the soil so I at least had something growing in the plots come hunting season, and although it isn't perfect, it HAS accomplished this, which has improved our hunting and observation goals. It has also made the process of planting more enjoyable for me, much less tractor time at very low and quiet RPM's. Keep us updated on the adjustments you are making and the results for our consideration. All the best to you.

@tompeterson3296

Жыл бұрын

@@theback40 Mark, I use clover to keep my plots green and to "outcompete" the weeds.....then in late June I found I need to terminate the clover with gly and a little (1 pint / acre) 24-d ....in order to let my fall brassica establish. I chemically terminate about 1/2 my brassica plots and leave the clover in the other half (rotation). At the time I drill the brassica mix (PTT/DER/Kale/GHR) I add more clovers to the mix which will grow roots while my brassica shades them out for fall hunting. IF all goes as planned..... In spring that clover and rye will take off without the canopy of the now expired brassica. Viola! I have had trouble planting into the clover....even when scalped prior to seeding the brassica. The clover just outcompetes the brasica unless I chemically terminate. Still learning the above plans.....but I think I am close and some other guys make it work.

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

@@tompeterson3296 Awesome Tom, thank you for the update. We'll all get this thing figure out at some point!

I think your soil organic matter decreased is due to 1. Liberal use of herbicides. 2. Over management of the field. Even though it's no till and only the top layer of the soil is worked (herbicides, mowing, planting, etc.). But the top lay is the most important part of the soil. 3. Need some fertilizer. Some people say chemical fertilizers destroy the soil. It's actually a lie or ignorance as long as you don't over apply them.

@theback40

2 ай бұрын

Hey Daniel, thank you for taking the time to provide feedback. I haven't used herbicides for a few years prior to the test, how long does it take to stop affecting organic matter?

@DanielL-ee7fe

2 ай бұрын

@@theback40 We have a few acres of land in Texas. It was rented by a farm to grow winter wheat for many years. He retired and the land became idled. It has been several years now. I mow it once a year per the requirement. One would expect all kinds of weeds/grass to occupy the land. Instead, only one single species of weed occupy most of the land. I wonder why.

@theback40

2 ай бұрын

Interesting. He must have been using something other that just glyphosate?@@DanielL-ee7fe

Just a thought but what is the margin of error on the testing for organic matter? How does the location of your sample within the plot impact the organic matter?

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

You know....I was thinking the same thing, to the point where I thought I might try a different lab to see what they come up with. I might still do that? As far as the location, I take 5-6 samples spread throughout each plot and mix them, so I think it is a pretty good sample of the general state of each plot.

@brodychapman8348

Жыл бұрын

They test by weighing the sample, then heating it to 500 degrees to burn off all the organic matter and then re-weighing and comparing. I could see if one sample had some big chunks of roots or other obvious organics that weren't removed and another didn't how it could manipulate the results.

@jringros101

Жыл бұрын

​@@theback40 it might be worth asking the lab for the error in their estimates of OM%. 0.09% seems like a very small margin to be able to detect. Just a thought but if you do go to another lab let us know what their results are. Either way I wouldn't lose sleep over such a small change.

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

@@brodychapman8348 Ah, got it, thank you. I'm going to have to pay more attention to this from now on.

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

@@jringros101 Agreed. The plots have improved moisture retention and have growing forage on them during hunting season now, so I have accomplished my goal.

Organic mater, well as an engineer i would tell you ots lab measurement error. Total variation = measurement variation + product variation. Cal if you have more questions

@theback40

Жыл бұрын

Hey Chris, thank you for the feedback. This seems to be the feedback I am getting as there are multiple testing protocols, each with margins of error. One guy pointed out that even though I sent the sample to the same lab, they used different testing methods to get the results, thus exactly what you are suggesting, lab variation. So we don't have a test control if the lab is changing their testing methods. So I'm just going with visual observation and trusting that the process is building the OM. All the best to you.