It's kinda incredible to see how quickly the Ultimate universe cratered itself after such a promising couple of years.

@jearl75290

3 жыл бұрын

High highs and (really) low lows.

@alexjimenez9178

3 жыл бұрын

@@jearl75290 but were there any creamy middles?

@YodaGoat44

3 жыл бұрын

What's some Ultimate Universe Highs? Top Three

@gyga100

3 жыл бұрын

@@YodaGoat441) ultimate spiderman run 2)ultimates 3)reed becoming the maker during Jonathan Hickman run

@YodaGoat44

3 жыл бұрын

I'm definitely going to read the Maker origin. He's a cool addition to D Cates Venom run! + Hickman is Amazing. 👍🕺

I think the Ultimate line was initially successful because 1) they didn't have years of continuity acting as a hurdle for new readers, 2) they reworked familiar plots and characters in fresh and interesting ways, 3) the creative teams were excited about telling stories in cool ways without worrying how it'll affect the mainstream continuity.

@suluturnip

3 жыл бұрын

marvel knights negates you points.

@thomasmuandersontheneousul4184

2 жыл бұрын

Fresh and interesting? Jesus that's generous reading ultimate spidey was a chore for me I saw all this before - Bendis really only added new paint and needless mutations (literal) to the characters

@jaredgarcia8638

Жыл бұрын

@@thomasmuandersontheneousul4184 was it really as bad as Millar's cynical take in The Ultimates?

@greengym2336

Жыл бұрын

Agreed, Ultimate Marvel was fresh and new. I only really read Ultimate Spider-man and some of the X-Men comics, I liked them they were fun. What sucked was that whole thing where magneto flooded all of New York.. terrible choices were made and the death of Peter was tragic, not a bad decision but it still made me sad because I followed this guy for so many issues and he ended up dying.

I used to be a “five book every Wednesday” comic book fan. Ultimatum changed that. I figured if I spend so much time, effort, and money on an episodic saga that can be destroyed in a matter of months by one man’s writing, then what’s the point of continuing on issue to issue. I was scared that other books, and to a lesser extent other universes, could easily go the same route, and I haven’t found myself able to go back since:

@lazer-ape

3 жыл бұрын

I can sympathize, for me the break came in the form of Secret Wars 2015. I was juggling a few books at a time, and when I finally noticed how each of the major titles I was following made an utter mockery of the stories they spawned from I just found mysekf unable to care about modern comics anymore. It was such a daunting realization, it made me lose all faith and pride I had in the medium. And ever since my tastes have only grown more seclusive and niche. I pretty much only follow big bang comics and femforce at this point.

@patrickb1439

3 жыл бұрын

what are ur thoughts on marvel unlimited? i think you can get a year for $60

@richborn6700

3 ай бұрын

I couldn't justify after highschool in 2012 spending 2.99-3.99 per issue that was basically worthless after reading, with the stories often being cancelled or subject to crossovers. I fell off around Age of Ultron in 2013 when I started having to budget in beer money. Im happier occasionally buying collected editions off Amazon and building a library of my own

@PepeCoinMania

6 күн бұрын

Yes there’s no point

@PepeCoinMania

6 күн бұрын

@@patrickb1439that’s great for reading back issues online The quality is amazing but I just use it for very old comics

Ultimate universe lived too close to the edge and got cut

Well I still think Bendis's Ultimate Spider-man is the most consistent spider-man comics I've read it's really beneficial that Bendis wrote it entirely and actually gave an ending for Peter. I feel like the Ultimate universe was at it's strongest conceptually when rebirth came out. It had this already heavy lore that had not been held back by statu quo whatsoever and beared no resemblance to the actual Marvel Universe. The Maker is so popular because this universe allowed him to reshape it in a much more consequential way than most top tier comicbook villains are usually allowed. I won't lie, the fact that the creatives on these titles took chances and kept moving forward without looking back makes the Ultimate imprint endearing to me even if the low points were REALLY low.

@thibaldus3

3 жыл бұрын

Heh, I personnaly really hated the whole Reed Richard turns into a villain arc. He was so well written as the main protagonist and hero of the UFF books (basically he's the character that we follow and know the most intimately during the 60 books) that it felt like a cheap subversion that didn't fit the character done "just to be different". Kinda like Ultimatum was just done to be different now that I think about it.

Ultimate Fantastic Four was originally meant for Grant Morrison, it's highly speculated that Millar and Bendis were still working from Morrison's pitch to Marvel

@psykomancer4420

3 жыл бұрын

Holy hell man, the things I would do to see that version. Oh well, never meant to be.

@stevenlennon12

3 жыл бұрын

it started with good ideas but never took off especially after bendis and millar took off

I think the art of the ultimate universe, at least for the first half, is absolutely incredible. Bagley’s Spider-Man fits the perfect early 2000’s high school drama the book set out to be. Hitch is at his best and hasn’t been as good since Ultimates, blending what would eventually be Avengers: The Movie, The Comic. The art of the first half of this age just never missed.

@stevewhitt9109

Жыл бұрын

love your avatar

As someone who grew up with the Ultimate Universe and was a fan of it, I can say that the thing that really dipped in quality after a while was the world building. Like it or not, what was kind of cool about the Ultimates was its different approach to certain characters and seeing how the world reacted to these characters. Contrasting the cosmic-magic-metaphysical-multiversal-operatic events to the relatively more grounded but action movie-ish ultimate universe was fun. But then the Ultimate Universe started to lose what made it unique and there really became no reason to read the Ultimate Universe anymore. Nothing about it stood out in time.

@MrKILLINOOBZ

2 жыл бұрын

The only thing that continues to stand out to this day is Bendis' Spiderman run which I think was the best rendition of Spiderman.

Honestly the only reason why ultimate marvel ever lasted long was (in my in my opinion) Ultimate spiderman. Sure in the beginning the first issue didn't get as much sales as the X-men one. But even then, ultimate spider-man literally carried the universe on his shoulders making arguably one of the best versions of Peter Parker

@pauliewalnuts2072

3 ай бұрын

Always loved the takes on Venom and Carnage in Ultimate

small correction, the ultimate doom trilogy didn't turn Reed Richard into the maker, only his heel turn. It was in the Hickman written Ultimate that he adopted that persona and, in my opinion, actually became an interesting character

@thibaldus3

3 жыл бұрын

I personnaly really hated the whole Reed Richard turns into a villain arc. He was so well written as the main protagonist and hero of the UFF books (basically he's the character that we follow and know the most intimately during the 60 books) that it felt like a cheap subversion that didn't fit the character done "just to be different". Kinda like Ultimatum was just done to be different now that I think about it.

@landoakechi9406

6 ай бұрын

​@@thibaldus3 Well, he wouldn't be an important character anymore if they didn't turn him into the maker

@thibaldus3

6 ай бұрын

@@landoakechi9406 Yep. It was obviously a (cheap) ploy for relevancy and shock. Doesn't mean it fit the character well.

@landoakechi9406

6 ай бұрын

@@thibaldus3 I think it was a good idea. Maybe contrived and out of character, but the fact that he's still relevant to this day shows that it was a good idea

@johnolmos8670

5 ай бұрын

I thought it was dumb because we already have Dr Doom why make another character that’s almost exactly the same?

Why does everyone seem to forget that wolverine’s son from the Ultimate Universe, Jimmy Hudson, survived Battle world… though he’s been utterly forgotten about by writers since 2017.

@Darkrockmanbeyond

Жыл бұрын

Also a few more mutants from that universe survived like Quicksilver

I remember the ultimate comics coming out and there was always this impression of them being edgy, exciting, kinda mature, and cult. Very early 00s which part of me wants to call "the leather age." It was a very of the time thing. In retrospect and how Miles and the Maker have persisted, I would want a new Ultiamtes line to be treated similar to Justice League: Gods and Monsters or DCs The Flintstones. Take only the most foundational aspect of the character, a power or a look, and throw out everything and remix and rebuild them from the ground up into something new and take them in radical directions. Be that with cynicism that seemed to prevade the early 00s or a more modern sincerity, but be bold and treat nothing as sacred and see what happens. The most engaging or memorable, for better or worse, was where the characters different or juxtaposed their traditional depictions. Ultimates is gonna be remembered as a very weird time capsule.

@profjeff9

Жыл бұрын

The Leather Age! I love it.

@OmegaShadeslayer

Жыл бұрын

People not being reverent or giving a shit about the characters existing lore is an issue we have now.

@landoakechi9406

6 ай бұрын

Well, today, the new Ultimate Spider-Man comes out, and the birth of a new Ultimate universe

@LamprosBambacha

22 күн бұрын

Well buddy how lucky we got

That Lady Di mishap will never stop being funny to me. X-statix was a trip.

@frankvizen5480

2 жыл бұрын

X statix was great

@oldmanlogan9616

Жыл бұрын

Lmao

While I agree utterly entirely with the video, Ultimate Spider-Man stayed consistently fantastic for practically its entirety.

@eamonndeane587

3 жыл бұрын

I personally prefer the Ultimate Clone Saga to what I've seen of the 616 version.

@javeydones5163

2 жыл бұрын

@@eamonndeane587 I think it really depends on what you like about story telling. The Ultimate Spider-Man clone saga was much faster paced and off the rails crazy. If that’s your kinda thing haha

"Tastes like chicken." As they used to say in the Marvel Bullpen: 'nuff said!

I remember seeing ultimate Spider-Man number 1 on the racks and thinking it was like an all ages title or one of those collections of newpaper strips gathered into a trade. It wasn’t until about issue 3 that alot of us realized that it was a seriously written retelling in a whole new universe (and not just aome cliffnotes thing on the 616 universe for people who hadn’t read comics before)

Thanks for a concise analysis of the Ultimate Universe: I remember reading some title just before the end: Mutants were being hunted by Nimrods, Thor's son was corrupting men, the world was falling apart after the revelation about America creating mutants (and thus all the Magneto crap was, essentially, America's fault), the Maker was sending his Neohumans to destroy Asgard, then the world. It was like having Roland and Emmerich make a crossover event; just disaster, death, and hopelessness. I just had this image of the writers just writing anything to end the imprint, hoping they'd do enough damage to stop any more reboots or relaunches.

@naquingreen1603

3 жыл бұрын

@lexxstrum I agree post-death of Spider-Man era of the Ultimate Universe was disaster, death, and hopelessness, after another It really did felt like it was written by Roland emmerich. Ultimatum really did mess up and ultimately destroyed the Ultimate Universe

3:40 So Bill Jemas is indirectly responsible for One More Day?! 5:09 it is so ironic to hear how Joe Quesada saved the 616 universe from being wiped out only to be replaced for a new version when you remember he did One more day

@GabyGeorge1996

3 жыл бұрын

Clearly someone’s never seen Atop The Fourth Wall. If you watched Linkara, you would know this.

@ianr.navahuber2195

3 жыл бұрын

@@GabyGeorge1996 i watch him I just have Bad memory

@SuperWolsey

3 жыл бұрын

@@ianr.navahuber2195 clearly, you do

I was working at Chapters when the ultimate Spider-man launched and I think its success is due to them writing relatable high school interactions. Also work and family reactions, one of my favourite scenes is where Peter get in trouble at school for asking why injustice happens, then fired from his job for asking the same questions. When he tells his aunt what happened she phones up JJJ and calls him out then criticizes his moustache. Finishes with "what do you want for dinner?" to Peter.

Really appreciate your insights and research. Even if you dislike a comic or creator you do seem to give them a fair appraisal. Ultimates was the first thing I remember reading by Millar. It made me think two things. Wow this guy has some great ideas, and wow, I wish a decent writer had developed this.

The son of Wolverine of the Ultimate Marvel did survive but is never addressed again.

Miles and The Maker survived the transition but I remember Jimmy Hudson Wolverine appearing in X-Men: Blue, as well. I don't even think Marvel remembers.

@blackphoenix77

3 жыл бұрын

Jimmy Hudson, Wolverine Jr, was a part of the X-Men Blue team and he even got his own symbiote, but he hasn't been heard from in years. You'd think with all the symbiote related shenanigans going on nowadays that he would have popped up, but no.

@sleadaddy

11 ай бұрын

Heh. He did mention "survived to the present day" No one cares about Logan's only straight kid.

Bagley worked on Spider-Man before Ultimate SM. He did art on the clone saga....ahhhhh never mind

I remember when Ultimate Spider-Man came out I'd been telling my friends for several months that I wanted a reboot of Marvel continuity, and this was good for that for a time. Of course, that's just me, and as you point out it didn't really work over time.

Hopefully, things are ok, dear fellow. Your work here is greatly appreciated.

This channel deserves more views, more attention and more love. Excellent work as always.

The working title for the Ultimate imprint was "Ground Zero." Which would have become terribly dated and awkward a year into the line. Also with the first couple issues of Ultimate Spider-Man you can see how the covers put Bagley figures over real world photos of NYC. Also a Jemas idea I believe, which they abandoned a couple issues in. I think he even considered the idea of the interior artwork using that same fumetti type of style. The Ultimate line never had attractive covers for the books either. Always tarnished by bizarre trade dress. Granted, made them instantly recognizable, but really dates the whole output like the awful Civil War banner.

The ultimate universe was the best thing in my childhood!

@davidhanson4909

3 жыл бұрын

My sympathies.

@pacotorres5968

3 жыл бұрын

What do you mean you fan of earth 616 ?

@TheRuinedFlame

2 жыл бұрын

@@pacotorres5968 pretty sure he was trying to say sorry for the ultimate universe going down hill

@pacotorres5968

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheRuinedFlame oh, thanks for telling me

Honestly I actually really felt like the Ultimate universe was getting back on track during the "post death of Spiderman era" Miles Morales series is great and continues be great even today, and the Ultimates of that era was very underrated and I actually really like Cataclysm but that is probably just me.

@Kaden10

2 жыл бұрын

I think they just ran out of steam with it, they couldn't get the magic back that made those first few years of the Ultimate universe great.

@andrewpye2114

2 жыл бұрын

I honestly think the Ultimate universe was getting better after Ultimatium and let’s be honest, there are badly written events in mainstream Marvel as well and yet it didn’t end that universe at all, along with I read death of Spider-Man and it was a great book to read, along with that they bring in Miles Morales as his new successor and Bendis did a brilliant job with him, to the point that I feel like he’s the only one who did a better job with him than the later writers, that’s my personal opinion, and I feel like they need to bring Ultimate universe back at some point, because I feel like that it was unique than half of the parallel universes, as it did things a lot differently, and I feel like that Marvel comics is not the same without it, I mean without the Ultimate universe, we wouldn’t have Marvel Zombies and Miles Morales, along with that elements of that universe wouldn’t have been used for Marvel Cinematic Universe, and I find it a lot more interesting than Mainstream Marvel universe at times, so I just hope they do bring it back one day.

@laststrike4411

Жыл бұрын

Miles might be great now, but his start was... Well, let's just say he didn't start out on the right foot. Everyone wants to praise Bendis for 150, but I can't help but feel disappointed with it. I would never want to put Miles out of a job, but there was so much that was opening up for Peter when he died. They'd finally run out of canon reinvent/streamline. They were opening all these exciting new areas for him to explore, and he had a chance to actually retain that development. Peter's death in 150 feels like a quiet admission from Bendis that he didn't know what to do rather than a proper conclusion.

I kinda wish DC and Marvel would do something similar to the Ultimate Universe again. I really liked the reinterpretation of classic characters and the closest thing I can think of to it would be DC's Earth One books, but the long stretches of time between each new entry keeps causing me to believe the imprint is dead before another book releases. I love the main universes of both companies, but there are some stories you just can't do within them that can be done in another world not tied down by previous continuity. Like the stuff with Reed becoming the Maker was something I really enjoyed, partly because I knew this was something one couldn't do for 616 Reed without making characters act out of character and upsetting fans, sorta like another Marvel character that went evil in the 616 universe that wore red, white, and blue.

@dragonstormx

3 жыл бұрын

Would you want Reed to stay evil or get redeemed? From what I have read he was actually supposed to get redeemed but I don't know for certain.

The Ultimate universe is a case study in the saying of the phrase "Too many cooks in the kitchen", well I'd put an addendum to that by saying the Ultimate universe had too many cooks who didn't know they were all working on the same four course meal and were just doing their own thing without rhyme or reason.

I was 'out' of the comics world during this time. I love the mythology building on All Levels

Excellent video, seriously. I've watched a lot of videos on the ultimate universe and this covered a lot of ground I never saw referenced.

YES!!! I WAS WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO!

23:50 - Jimmy Hudson survived and showed up in X-Men Blue along with Mach Two, Guardian, Quicksilver and Armor

Terrific exposition, thanks for the video!

I hope it's just a hiatus and nothing bad happened to this guy

@murtazabasrawi4532

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly two months ago he saidthis on twitter: Yes, it has been a while since I posted anything new. But don't worry! I do have a few in the works and the delay is merely due to some adjustments in Real Life. Once balance is achieved the SIX completed scripts I have ready will make it to your eyeballs in the form of a video. It is ok, we'll wait. Quality content takes time. We just hope he's doing alright.

really good video! Thanks for the breakdown!

Great video. They should have kept Ultimate Spiderman going and started a slow rebuild from that.

Ultimate Spider-Man was what got me into American comics proper in my first year in college. It really was a good entrypoint.

Literally owned every single volume of the Ultimate trades except Ultimatum

Informative as always 👍🏻

Your work is greatly appreciated.

Damn i love your videos, your narration and editing are so good.

Maybe the best comics KZread video ever with the perfect case study in "ultimate comics. "Nobody knows anything" is sage advice during this highly opinionated, "kickstarter" era of comics Everyone thinks making comics is SO easy, that all it takes is money, enthusiasm and the willingness to "make good shit" but the medium is still very young and underdeveloped, plus with the advent of better written movies and tv shows based on comic book material modern audiences are becoming increasingly more savvy. Ultimate comics shows the limitations in the decadent "just do something cool" approach to comics. Anyone who chooses to express themselves in the comics medium should approach it with a level of humility because making comics ain't as easy as Stan Lee tried to make it look.

@lefthandedsophiethepop-wit503

3 жыл бұрын

Immak Excellent points, especially about everyone trying to make comics like movies! Movies are way different than ppl realize they have sound, photographic texture, time, and actual movement, comics have to convey all of that in static images, it's a tall order. My advice to comics artists today is to study symbology and semiotics. Symbolism is the most underrated aspect of cartooning but it's actually the bulk of what makes a cartoon work in any capacity,(this is the reason superheroes are so often used because they naturally use symbolic language) the more u utilize iconic symbolism the more u can do things movies can't do! Anyway good luck with your comic making it's hard but it's STILL a great medium👍🏿

Do you think you'll ever make a fully fledged video on Marvel's Max label?

@StrangeBrainParts

Жыл бұрын

The odds are good on that one. So...yes!

I agree with your analysis of the quality and standards throughout run. I appreciated the overview. I only glanced at the line apart from Ultimatum when it was released and Ultimates about 12 years after release. I can see how the influence of the growing power of the MCU began exerting itself on the MC group and subsequently on the U line. I've just subscribed fyi💯❤️

Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate X-Men, and Ultimates are a fond and warm memory of my early 20s. I’d imagine I have the graphics in a box somewhere still! ❤️

No "Ten Minutes into the Future, in an ULTIMATE universe"?

Great video! I would say that the central appeal and early success of the Ultimate line was that simplicity afforded by a freedom from continuity coupled with the success of those early Marvel films. Those films were relatively basic introductions to these characters done in a blockbuster style and the Ultimate line reflected that approach. It makes sense that these comics were often touted as backdoor film treatments because that’s how they felt: alternative, streamlined introductions that didn’t sacrifice character. They weren’t trying to be necessarily ambitious but written to appeal to the widest possible audience in the way the films are made. However, that approach was lost over time and then got bogged down in its own attitude towards the overall mission statement of the imprint. These books are supposed to be grounded takes on these characters and it’s very easy to misinterpret grounded for cynical and edgy and the line fell apart soon after.

@KnightOfNewColu

Жыл бұрын

I also really liked the grounded approach. I get really tired of comics nowadays killing and reviving or cloning characters. Early ultimate comics had none of that. Every major event had like real stakes and it gave the action more weight. Ultimatum and Ultimates 3 we’re both just gross edgefests but I kinda admire them sticking to their guns afterwards when they soft rebooted.

Lots of great information. Awesome video, thank you! :-)

I love your videos bro I watch them while I work on my comic book

It's Interesting to see the Ultimate Universe evolve into a Universe that's beloved by Comic fans like myself despite the success and failures of this Universe. I'm looking to continue reading The Ultimates, Read Ultimate X-Men, Ultimate Fantastic Four, and Ultimate Spider-man because I grew up with this Universe. That's how it got me to love the MCU. I still follow what's going on in the main marvel universe. All I can say is....I love The Ultimate Universe!!! 😊😊😊

Great video man

Have you ever done anything on Malibu comics? Their Ultraverse was sometimes interesing, would like to see some of those characters get a revival, but also their pre-ultra stuff, Ex-Mutants, Dinosaurs for Hire, etc.

@frankvizen5480

2 жыл бұрын

Ultraverse was my favorite comic universe at the time that it was around. Wish marvel would use some of those characters.

1 year later and we’re coming right back with Hickman at the helm ♨️♨️♨️♨️

A good thorough video :)

FRIKKIN' SWEET. Really cool channel. Good to see James Kolchalka and Peter Bagge.

I’m currently reading all of the Ultimate Universe from the start as there was a recent reboot. Following a reading order I’m sure most have saw on KZread and it’s pretty spot on! I’m around 50 issues into X-men, 80 into Spider-Man and currently on Ultimates2. This is obvious but for me Spiderman is the lynchpin, his Origins don’t change too much but the abrasiveness of all of Peter’s relationships from Ben, to MJ especially & Gwen too! I even noticed a Tony Stark Endgame moment where he tells MJ he could stop being Spiderman right now and she concedes that he wouldn’t be himself if he did and it’s such a gut punch if you know how Peter’s story finishes in the Ultimate Universe especially with the parallel of this happening to Tony Stark in live action. Big fan of the initial introduction of the X-men it’s pretty fun and characters you don’t expect to be part of the team are, but the core team all seem to keep a defining trait from the main universe then have something different too! Big fan of comic visuals I like the look of Charles & Cable I think it’s a mech armour they have towards the end of the series and also saw some images of Reed almost as a herald for this Darkseid looking version of Thanos! The idea of Ultinate Adventure makes me laugh now seeing Marville which I’ve never heard of has just took their petty to a new level lol! So for me so far so good but I can imagine how it quite easily went off the rails! Never the less it’s been refreshing to read something with no pre-existing continuity before Spider-Man and the fact it does tie back into the main Universe when it ends! Overall an opportunity missed or ball dropped by Marvel but taking Miles & The Maker away from him may be enough!

I like in the Ultimate universe they stick to the whole "dont back to status quo" the maximum they could, would be really easy to pull some bullshit and resurrect everyone after ultimate,but they kept going and made their own thing,we got Miles because of that(what wouldn't happen in 616 anyway), the Maker was a great villain during Jonathan Hickman Ultimates run, i think what was hurting then the most was their publication format they were going,if stop being a monthly publication and went for a miniseries format like DC earth One, would work best, if marvel bring the Marvel2099 back,why not bring back the ultimate universe back in this format......

@Kaden10

2 жыл бұрын

That could work.

14:14 To be fair. Mark Waid himself wasn't exactly an angel in that situation. The guy really knows how to hold a grudge.

Love your videos

Ive been meaning to see this video for months. The ultimate Universe always kind of fascinated me because even as a kid I could tell it was a dumpster fire

Always interesting 👐

As someone who started as an enthusiastic reader and just drifted away around the third Ultimates series, my take was that the abandonment of continuity was what made the early stuff fun and it was the accumulation of continuity that made the later stuff tedious. A classic fresh-to-stale dynamic.

This is gonna be good!

Yes! I Love this kind of Talk

I actually liked Miles Morales and the post-Ultimatum X-Men series, especially how Kitty Pryde created a mutant homeland. I think that series needs an adaptation.

Man I still love Marvel Knights and the early years of Ultimate Marvel.

24:04 Damn, that last part fits perfectly to DC comics run by Dan Didio.

I can tell you the exact moment I stopped reading "The Ultimates". At some point someone cloned The Hulk, but with his superior intellect still intact. His lack of rage, however, made him less useful in battle and Captain America was telling him that he should probably quit the team. When one of Cap's teammates tells him that maybe he was being too harsh on the new Hulk, Cap responds with, "What do you want me to do? Lie to him and tell him he's got what it takes? That he'll ever be as good as The Hulk?!" And I just thought to myself, "YES!!! YOU'RE CAPTAIN AMERICA FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!! INSPIRING YOUR TEAM AND LEADING BY EXAMPLE IS WHAT YOU'RE ALL ABOUT!!! YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE THE NICE GUY!!!" And it was at that moment when I realized I just wasn't having fun with the title anymore. None of the characters were likeable and I no longer cared about the stakes of the story. I still read Ultimate Spider-Man for a while longer, though. It was the one Ultimate title that was still consistently good.

@naquingreen1603

3 жыл бұрын

@FrankLightheart Honestly the only likeable characters from the ultimates was Ultimate Ironman and Ultimate Thor (when he started act like his 616 counterpart). Ultimate Iron man Tony Stark for all of his faults was way more likable than his main 616 counterpart, especially during the period when Marvel ruined Iron Man in Civil War, however there is a major complaint about ultimate Ironman and it's that he never stopped selling/making weapons in Ultimate Marvel unlike the main 616, granted this could have been rectified IF they established that he's still made weapons BUT for only SHIELD and the government as opposed to still being an arms dealer selling to both sides.

@naquingreen1603

3 жыл бұрын

@FrankLightheart The Ultimate Avengers animated movies were way better than the actual comics, Those films made a lot of changes to the ultimates BUT they were for the better (minus Betty Ross being a terrible person to Bruce Banner)

I really enjoyed some storyline towards the end of Ultimate Marvel, especially Hickman's Ultimates relaunch and the final storyline on Ultimate Comics: X-Men by Brian Wood. Some good stuff!

This feels an awful lot like Bayformers. The earth is miserable to live in in this universe Ultimates has. But thank God Miles managed to get out of it.

My biggest issue with the Ultimate Universe is how practically everyone is an asshole. Supposedly, this is "more realistic" but I don't buy it. 19:16 You sure you aren't describing DC's Flashpoint here?

@luchomscyfy

3 жыл бұрын

Well, in retrospective, the Ultimates characters are not so asshole-y like the X-Men/mutants right now, post- Hickman's HoX/PoX.

@timothiturner5218

3 жыл бұрын

@@luchomscyfy Mutants being assholes makes sense and is honestly justified. Lol.

@kuroazrem5376

3 жыл бұрын

Spider-man wasn't.

@juliagoodwin9510

3 жыл бұрын

@@kuroazrem5376 Point. Not sure about everyone else though.

@blackpeter70

3 жыл бұрын

I thought Ultimate Hawkeye was an arsehole. Never liked him. Cool costume, though!

Was definitely into the Ultimate Universe for a few years as someone who got back into comics during my college years, but yeah it quickly ran out of steam as something that was actually exciting. Just titles that weren't especially different from mainline marvel, or trying to ape the magic of the original run of the Ultimates with diminishing returns. I guess the lines other claim to fame would be Marvel Zombies, which started as an arc in Ultimate Fantastic Four.

MK Spider-Man was more than five years after the inception of the MK Line.

We are 5 years away from Ultimate Universe Rebirth.

@Menziah

3 жыл бұрын

@jap0112 the ultimate universe is confirmed to be the next big threat. Anythings possible

@harlannguyen4048

3 жыл бұрын

@@Menziah True. At least the 616 universe has the God of Symbiotes Venom at the ready.

25:26 I had to goole that...I'm like "ain't no way they had Daniel san editing comics."

I think, at some point the Ultimate Universe became too extreme and could easily be compared to the Boys for its brutality. But, the only reason I miss it is because we saw some great team-ups, like the Howling Commandos, which I wished to see more, but didn't happen. It was also positive that from a point on UU became its own thing, different from the main universe. It just didn't need to go full nihilistic and brutal. Its biggest problem though was the plot holes, as it seemed that the various Ultimate Imprint titles were not co-ordinated.

I've only got a few issues of the Marvel Team-Up series, but I did get the ones drawn by Sienkiewicz, as well as Man Thing drawn by John Totleben. Cheeky!

The idea of rebooting universes or titles has been around for awhile, and the results vary widely. Crisis on Infinite Earths is the one that still gets attention but people don't remember that even it started to fall apart shortly after it started for many characters afterward. They can't seem to stop rebooting some titles (Legion of Super Heroes has been rebooted from the start about 4 times at this point?) and ultimately it boils down to the changes either don't stick or don't garner enough interest to maintain. Hell a deep dive could be done into DC comics alone, with how many reboots they've done with continuity trying to chase new readers or a fresh new direction. Shared continuity is a pain in the ass for a lot of reasons, but constantly changing things has not turned out to be the magic bullet that comic companies often hope for. Ultimates was at the very least, an interesting experiment, with a few standout books to show for it.

I don't speak for everyone, because I only read Spider-Man under the ultimate label. But the impression I got from ultimate Spider-Man, now that I have a some what better grasp on comic book history around that time, is that it seemed a lot more hopeful, light-hearted, and adventurous than a lot of material/event comics that were coming out at that time. Then I learned about Ultimatum, and that feel good vibe died for me, now I can't feel that child like wonder I had reading ultimate Spider-Man, without thinking about what would come after... If that makes any sense.....

If mutants were created in Canada, how did they spread across the world? That raises more questions than it answers.

Could the ultimate universe be the precursor to the "super heroes are jerks with super powers" trope?

@zer0p0tential37

3 жыл бұрын

I'd give the nod on that to Rick Veitch's Brat Pack, but maybe there's something older.

@twicedeadmage

4 ай бұрын

Yall forgot about Watchmen?

Well its official ultimate marvel universe is returning.

Reviving Ultimate Peter just to have him give up on being Spider-Man always soured me on Miles

@walterhoward5512

3 жыл бұрын

Bendis definitely had more planned for that character, but he wasn't able to get around to it because of the way the Ultimate Universe was mishandled near the end.

@naquingreen1603

3 жыл бұрын

@Immak I agree everything said about Miles Morales in the Ultimate Comics. Marvel really did drop the ball with his character and wasted him, it's no wonder why his into the spider-verse counterpart is the best interpretation of his character along with the PS4 Spider-Man game, even currently Miles Morales in the comic books still isn't all that interesting to read about

Great video! Please do Green Lantern Willworld or Green Lantern/Superman: Legend of the Green Flame by Neil Gaiman. If you liked Mosaic you will love those.

Amazing video. Can you make autopsy of Supreme Power universe?

The best part early part of the ultimate universe and its origins was the pervasive feeling of mystery.

Ultimate Marvel comics.... A Great Idea for an Alternate Continuity, but uneven Quality control and an Excess of Unlikable characters (outside of the Ultimate Spiderman books)/ Heroes being turned into villains just ruins the imprint for me. I really was not a fan of Reed Richards being turned into a sociopathic Monster as The Maker, especially since Reed is one of the few openly Autistic Superheroes in comics. Jeph Loeb should have really stuck to writing for DC in my eyes. I've mixed feelings about his Superman comics, but he is a terrific Batman Writer.

@uncannydcmarvelous5732

3 жыл бұрын

The thing is that after his son's death... seems that really changed him... a lot.

"Only Miles Morales and Reed Richards would survive Secret Wars" What about Miles' parents, Ganke and Bombshell?!

@dubuyajay9964

3 жыл бұрын

And Wovie's son, Hudson?

A very good video. I’ll always have a soft spot for Ultimate Marvel prior to Ultimatum. But there were some Bad comics before we got there-in particular Ultimate Iron Man.

As much as i like comic tropes and comicbook history this channel is an underrated gem. Good stuff.

The thing about nobody knowing what will or won’t be a success is not entirely true. A lot of times companies end up publishing things that they know will be failures, simply because even a failure makes some money, and if they’ve already put money into a project under different conditions or they don’t have anything else to fill that financial quarter, they’ll just put out a failure. Companies would prefer successes, sure, but a failure as we see it is not necessarily a failure as the company sees it. It’s a calculated loss.

Only a few things were from scratch for DC in the 80s.

I actually really enjoyed reading the Ultimate comics. Yeah, it was a bit crazy here and there but the art was really good and I thought it was darkly comical that it just goes off the rails.

24:30 You got that backward. The problem in Hollywood is that the producers are convinced that they, and only they, know what will make the movie sell. They want to make changes to the film so that it's successful. They hate directors and screen writers who fight back. It's classic Dunning Kruger, if you know what that is.

Ultimate Universe brought me back to comics after many years. Never liked the FF or The Avengers (The Ultimates) until the Ultimate versions.

That John Totleben Marvel team up is well worth looking for if you happen to be a fan of his. The whole Ultimate period had it's moments, but I was very picky about what I read.

@briarpatchlogic

3 жыл бұрын

@@MaxwellUnnasch not sure about that...an interesting point, though. I would need to look into it as Totleben popped up in some unexpected places right before he bowed out completely.

Ultimate Spider-Man was pretty great though. It was unique to the original comics in ways that felt fresh, exciting, and in some cases even better than the mainline comic series. Even its worst aspects weren’t abysmal. At the same time though I felt it also managed to stay true to the original comics and what made them so great, with fleshed out characters that were flawed but still likable, quality drama that treaded the line between realistic and out of this world very well, and a sense of hope underlining it all. There’s a reason a lot of what made Ultimate Spider-Man so special has been used in Spider-Man cartoons and film adaptations since its inception. Brian Michael Bendis, to me, was polishing up a beautiful work of art and taking it in new angles that would appeal to a modern audience. And it worked. Meanwhile with Ultimate X-Men and The Ultimates, at least from what I’ve read,, Mark Millar doesn’t seem to really respect what came before. Ultimate X-Men was heavily based off the Fox film more than anything, which yeah the first X-Men was a great movie, but I wouldn’t use them as a basis to tell a new, improved, unique, but also faithful reimagining of Marvel’s Merry Mutants. Then theirs the Ultimates, and honestly, I feel that title is more fitting than Ultimate Avengers because good god this is far removed from being an Avengers comic. It does have a few good things going for it that make it unique, such as Samuel Jackson inspired Nick Fury, Captain America being a man out of time, the Ultimates being assembled as a task force made up of people who don't get along, the team facing the Hulk before the big threat, defending the planet from an alien invasion, and an epic scale on par with that of a block buster movie. All of these were good changes and were perfectly executed in the 2012 film. But those are just the cliff notes and the actual meat of the Ultimates book and man…it’s super uncomfortable to read. It feels like it's edgy for the sake of being edgy 85 % of the time, with little substance to go with it. Then again this is from little I’ve read and know about the book, so maybe I should read the whole series and judge it from their. From what I've gathered so far, unlike Bendis who to me was merely touching up an amazing and beloved art piece while also taking it in new angles that were still faithful to the character, Millar instead tried to morph and mangle well beloved series into weird and often horrific messes that were trying to be different and shocking just for the sake of it. To me, Ultimate Spider-Man had purpose in its choices and narratives, where as Ultimate X-Men and the Ultimates didn't.