My man, I'm an aerospace engineer, 5 years after my masters, and I could help you SO MUCH improving those compressor designs. You need it so bad.

@karyjas1

3 ай бұрын

So why not leave some tips instead?

@IKS_Fox

3 ай бұрын

@@karyjas1 Because the format of youtube comment is absurdly unfit for communicating on such a complex topic. But you are right, I should probably reach out and see what we can get done.

@WarkWarbly

3 ай бұрын

​@@IKS_Fox Why not just upload your improvements to thingiverse and tell people to check out your community page here on YT so you can leave links to your design(s)?

@frandiminic3559

3 ай бұрын

hey, I made a computer fan with inlet guide vanes featured on fan showdown here on youtube, it is called unswirler. My problem is that in my fluid dynamics literatures from college I found contradicting examples of the angle of the inlet guide vanes, so let me try to explain, uf we look the fan or the compressor from the side of inlet guide vanes, and they swirl the incoming fluid in the clockvise direction, should the fan or the compressor spin in clockvise or counterclockvise directions. I found both examples, but NASA s wind tunnel fan with inlet guide vanes like in this example spins counterclockvise.I assumed they know what they are doing but the calculations that i get in this case are a bit weird. Tnx inadvance

@IKS_Fox

3 ай бұрын

@@frandiminic3559 It makes no difference whether or its clockwise or counter clockwise. The role of guide vanes is to translate swirling motion into stagnation pressure, so guide vanes should always be in the opposite direction to the rotor vanes. There is this really slick way of calculating the exact angles depending on how far from the rotor axis they are, so you get nice compression at every radial coordinate. Let me check if i can find some old slides from turbomachinery design, i think they should completely bust all of your doubts.

I would consider adding a thrust bearing. Your compressor blades are trying to move forward as they spin up. Regular bearings are not intended to handle thrust loads. Great video though and keep up the good work!

@tristin5723

3 ай бұрын

The front motor/shaft support is not rigid enough either, it's allowing the turbo impellor to wobble around.

@newmonengineering

3 ай бұрын

I agree this badly needs the front bearing to be a thrust bearing and it needs to be well supported. Also need to ensure the fans themselves are not moving on the shaft. Its obvious they pushed themselves forward into the housing and that's probably both because they moved on the shaft and because the bearing is not supported and not a thrust bearing. It's still a very impressive design, to blow up a glove its obviously making some pressure as is. But it could be so much better with just a few adjustments.

@ArneChristianRosenfeldt

3 ай бұрын

In a jet engine the thrust of the compressor compensates this, but with a fan?

@ConnorAustin

3 ай бұрын

I was wondering about that

@ArneChristianRosenfeldt

3 ай бұрын

Frank Whittle mounted two centrifugal compressors butt-to-butt and created more pressure than any lung can do with zero thrust issues.@@ConnorAustin

My recommendation as RC plane hobbyist. I worked mostly with propellers, but looked a little bit to jets. 1. Measure RPM. Compare it to the motor RPM itself. The RPM of axial compressors are very high. 2. Balance the turbines. Unbalanced turbines cause vibrations and decrease performance. 3. Don't use hammer! Balance whole turbines assembly together with the shaft.

@konserv

3 ай бұрын

I mean static balancing. Dynamic balancing is more complex procedure.

In engines they combine a lot of axial compressors (8 to 20) with one, sometimes two centrifugal compressor. The reason is that you have a greater surface for the intake (air to come into the system) with axial compressors but you have a bad compression ratio. But you can compress the "surface" so much, that it fits the small area of an centrifugal compressor. The centrifugal compressor has a high compression ratio but it's not efficient to have more than two of them. To combine the two systems you get the best of both worlds and they multiply their compression. Imagine a compression per axial stage of 1.5x and a centrifugal compressor with a ratio of 5x. @3 Axial stages it becomes 1.5x1.5x1.5x5 = approx. 17 times compression ratio.

your centrifugal needs a front bearing to keep the impeller centered in the housing. you can see the angle of the shaft change in relation to the housing when high torque is applied. You could alternatively try one in the middle? you basically need 2 bearings as far apart as you can put them on the shaft. Oh and don't worry about axial loads; roller bearings can't take much but there won't be that much from this.

So the wear is because the shaft is moving forward driving the compressor into the housing. If you cut groves into shaft and put a E clip or a spring clip. Close to bearing it should help movement. Or put a little positive pressure on the motor forcing the shaft to the housing

@nuttyDesignAndFab

3 ай бұрын

its not moving axially, its moving radially because its not well supported. needs a second bearing, not thrust washers.

@Mrshotshell

3 ай бұрын

@@nuttyDesignAndFab Agreed, it at least needs a bearing between the two stages and ideally a third bearing in front of the inlet like the axial compressor

@nuttyDesignAndFab

3 ай бұрын

@@Mrshotshell2 is enough, 3 would be overkill. actual turbos are made with just 1 in the middle but its a much wider journal style.

@Mrshotshell

3 ай бұрын

@@nuttyDesignAndFab They're also not made of 3d printed parts and random steel shafts

The two stage compressor turbines flexed outwards due to centrifugal force and rubbed the housing. Aka, depending on the turbine material and design it will have a sweetspot rpm, just before it starts rubbing into the housing. You could use this property to your advantage

You’re missing thrust bearings on the centrifugal compressor, that’s why you have dust regardless of the tolerances. The blades are sucking the impeller into the housing.

I work for a compressor company and Gardner Denver makes something very similar to what you’re looking into. Also, I believe you need three stages in each state should get a little bit smaller to allow it to increase pressure.

Just a couple of points. The radial flow compressors are sometimes called "staged radial flow" if there are two or more compressors. This was the arrangement typically used for two stage compressors in WWII turbo engines. There were also turbo supercharger engines that used a centripetal flow compressor to feed a supercharger. The other point is one of the cultural artefacts of English. Washing machine pretty much exclusively gets applied to a clothes washer as a name. Usually what you referred to is known as an ultrasonic cleaning bath. This is partly because the phrase "washing machine" was not in use until Jacob Schaffer invented a machine for washing clothes in the 1780's or 1790's.

This is such a cool project, I couldn't wait for this video to come after your first attempt.

Very big issue with radial compressor is back pressure. You need a thrust washer to push against the housing and you need to make more room for air to flow in the last stage

You need a bearing on the intake side of the dual centrifugal compressor...you are getting too much flex in the shaft...thus it's eating the housing...in fact a bearing in the middle wouldn't hurt either Very cool...surprising the plastic impellers held together at high rpm's Keep em coming!!!!

I think the problem, with the axial compresor, is that for the balloon you are experiencing a compresor stall. A way to test this could be to use a pressure buffer between the ballon and the compresor, let say a 20 to 50 liter tank, this will allow some air flow, you can try with bigger balloon. In summary the axial compresor needs some air flow to really perform, it is not good to build just static pressure

Really enjoy your videos, thank you for making them - always inspires me to hop into fusion and make something

Now add some combustors around the periphery with some cross piping ignitors and generator on same side as the compression stage. Bring your compression stages up to about 19:1 add some air cooling off your compressor stage to your blading and IGV's. Add four rows of impulse type blading on outlet side. Throw in a HRSG on your exhaust side along with a ST connected to your HRSG! ...Pretty cool for plastic model off a printer! Back to back radial bearings can work as a suitable thrust for your setup, I do see tons of thrust in your video.

If there's a buzzing sound in your compressor, something is always rubbing against something else

Fantastic work, dude! Excellent machines!!! 😃 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

Nice progress!

Two-Stage Centrifugal compressor needs a bearing between the rotors to stabilize the drive shaft and keep it from wobbling in the housing, that'll stop a lot of the wearing, also a thrust bearing, as previously mentioned, or just a simple ball bearing at the end of the drive shaft. As for previously mentioned diffuser, my knowledge doesn't yet go that far, but it probably would help..

A *Great* test would be if they could inflate a Beach Ball or an Air Mattress, and if so how long it took / how much electricity was used.

Hello, Could you do a static pressure test on both model (and future ones) to have an idea of the pressure ratio and alos a flow test with a anemometer and the section of the outlet (for debit calulations). And for your centrifugal designs, in comparison with a real turbo impeller or a real heli turbine, the outlet of the blade is not high enough and the slope of the profil is not inspired by what works. you should make the center of the compressor in the shape of a quarter-circle. For the blades, lengthen the inlet blade length and the outlet blade height, and reduce the number. Also try a design with two rows of blades. So for your next designs think about going for a platforms of impellers and change some parameters like the numbers of blade the angle of attack.

If you can't make it accurate then make it adjustable... not sure how though. Cool stuff, thanks for sharing.

I think the shaft of the second one could be bent, between the flanten section and the hammering it isn't hard to imagine. I doubt you would need a thrust bearing for those loads but a front one directly to the housing can be a good idea. Good luck!!

for centrefugal compressor you should use the same consept as with axialti - with first bigger and next cmalle centrefuge to increse presure

The horrible noises coming from the centrifugal compressor are the axle wobbling around as the blades hit the housing. There needs to be both a front and back bearing to keep the axle perfectly concentric with the housing in a rigid manner.

By increasing the clearances to stop rubbing you're increasing the amount of air that can leak past the compressors. It really needs another bearing or two to hold the impellers more stable and allow you to tighten up the clearances

Can the backlash in the bearings create excessive beating of the impeller in the housing?as a solution maybe install better of type bearing

you could enclose the axial turbines in their own cover from intake to exhaust printed with the cover attached to the turbine. you are losing a lot with interaction between the housing and the turbine. once it sucks the air in, you want it to continue to accelerate to the back radii, not lose energy by flowing backward towards the intake again along the housing surface. you can also get away with much less tight tolerances between the rotor and housing. On the exhaust side of the first turbine, vanes to smoothy redirect the flow from spinning to straight again, to make it easier for the second stage to inhale

If u have inflated a couple of baloons, u´d notice, that the initial blow (when the rubber is still "virgin" and unstretched), is far harder than any subsequent blow. When we were kids, tha adults would make the 1st blow, then let the air escape, and THEN give us kids the baloons to inflate them... Pre-stretch the baloon, then it may work.. The difference of baloons and gloves is, that while the rubber-material is equaly distributed across the whole surface of the glove, thus growing unformly, a ballon has more material at its end, and grows at this end too... But the additional thickness at its end, makes the 1st blow challenging even for adults...

I'm pretty sure your skill in 3d printing is at a level that would allow you to build an axial compressor capable of popping the balloon. Keep working on it and try to refine the design. I would definitely try with bigger diameter rotors (the rear ones get too small imo) and more stages (at least 6). Calculating a good geometry for rotor and stator blades shouldn't be difficult just like calculating how much smaller each consecutive stage should be. I'm sure you can find lot of information around the internet on axial compressor design. One thing I really don't get is why there's so much space between rotor rotor and following stator in that design. A good rule of thumb is that rotors and stators should be as close as it is possible to prevent unwanted turbulence. You also want to try refining the way the shaft is kept in place to get better performances and less vibrations. This is a really interesting and inspiring project and I'm so excited for the next video. I'm sure you will make something really unique on KZread. Keep trying and it will be great.

If you stretch the balloons before attempting to blow them up, they blow up much easier. Also the wear you're getting is most likely due to the internals moving. So maybe a thicker/stronger shaft will help with that.

@flibblebot

3 ай бұрын

This is what I was thinking. If you think how hard it is to blow up a balloon with your mouth - until it stretches, then it gets really easy.

do you have a fulltime job along with youtube becouse the screen you have in the background is not cheap. just curious

the biggest problem i am seeing with both of these designs is a major lack of bearings. Especially the axial compressor with only 1. It's impossible to hold a shaft straight with just 1 bearing and it really needs 3 or 4. I'd probably put 2 in the back 1 between the stages and another in the front on a little tripod support. The second problem is having too much clearance. Compressors need shockingly tight clearance which is also why it needs to be very precisely supported by bearings. I actually don't think self clearance is a bad thing as long as it it well supported.

I think stretching the balloon would really help it expand. even I can't blow a balloon without stretching a few times first. I also really like your axial fan but I think the angle of attack could be just a little bit greater.

The first one doesn't have a high static pressure, it's built like a jet engine. The second one has an axial load due to the design that needs some bracing or a bearing that's designed to take that load, a thrust bearing would do it.. It...also looks to me like you may be spinning it backwards, but it may just be a trick of the camera. Its hard to tell, my phone isn't giant. You can print a thrust bearing using resin and a couple daisy power line slingshot ammo.... They're 1/4 inch steel balls and they're 250 for like 7 dollars.

nice, but i think if you printed fan ora axial compresor with multiplying bldc motor from used hdd its will be a good project, you can adding hdd motor in series flow and make it reverse spin every section

why did you put only one bearing to the dual? Maybe that's the reason why it was producing to many powdered pla.

I have an idea for the centrifugal compressor... i think it has so much debris in it because ihe two impellers are connected with a resin rod instead of a bearing, therefore it becomes unstable during operation... if you would have one bearing in the back and one additional bearing in between the impellers, it will be more stable and won't produce as much friction-debris, also a third bearing on the inlet of the dual impeller could stabilize it even further, but you have to redo the housing design to fit the two additional bearings in it, otherwise it's still a great idea... also: if you want to blow up a balloon, you could try modifying the housings in such a way so that you can have the centrifugal compressor as the first stage and the axial compressor directly behind it as a second stage for more pressure... if this will blow up the balloon, i would be really impressed and i would like to try all of this on my own, as soon as i got a 3D-Printer that uses Resin (which sadly takes a lot of time to get the needed money saved up)

Please tell me you didn't notice the 4s pack going slower than the 3s? Wanna know why?

As many most likely already pointed out, your second one may need two bearings? We need a reprint to get version 2 working! :)

I wonder if you need to use better bearings. Maybe angular contact bearings. Could you be getting some flax in the drive shaft? I don't know. Just thinking out loud.

A few thoughts. -Need Front bearing. -Potentially a thrust bearing.

I think to inflate the balloon you might need a higher static pressure from the turbine. I think more stages or a more aggressive AoA on the blades might help.

Have you ever seen a latham supercharger? IT BEGS TO BE MODERNISED! 😊

I have STEP or fusion files of compressor witch can blow baloon. I don't know how to share it with you.

Add spacers and a middle bearing.. should work fine by then

How about adding a final stage the axial compressor as a centrifugal stage

Maybe you should focus on turning this into an vacuum pump. If you could create a vacuum around 10-6 torr it will be a very big business.

The thickness of the Baloon rubber is quite high and is a lot smaller & denser in comparison to the Gloves and Waste Plastic bags which a quite big less dense and have thinner material overall. If you want to Blow up the balloon you need to stretch it length-wise so it can be blown to full size. When people blow a balloon up they stretch the balloon as they are blowing it making it easier to fill the balloon up with air.

goat man from epic movie.

Maybe the bearings aren't secured tightly enough so the axle is walking or wobbling.

dual turbo needs better bearings, bearing placement and support, oh and a way to keep the shaft from traveling, (thryst bearing) like in a car engine crankshaft design. the motor side is freeballing.

Radial are used a lot on turboshafts and turboprops. Where you dont have as much airflow into the intake. I think that unfortunately radial compressor in this use case would require those tighter tolerances which would be present on both types when machined out of metal. Axial one can get away with less. Even though the pressure gain from single stage of axial is lower than from single stage of radial one. It just pushes forward right into the stator and next stage and so on. If it was made of metal i would say go radial for sure. Perhaps if you were to print each stage housing as one piece, inserted impeller then connected end piece with stator wanes than next housings of entire stages next impeller.... And perhaps nylon as a material for its lubricating properties. Just guessing.

Hover boat with directed nozzle for steering

It’s not difficult to see the issue with the compressor making all the PLA dust, just look at the input shaft and how much it moves about, since you have tight tolerances when the shaft moves about it makes the rotors hit the housing and grinds it away. For something like this to work you need the shaft held very firmly in the centre of the compressor so it can move radially as little as possible. Your lack of a bearing on input and the flimsy motor mount that flexes are definitely not good enough. You have a resin printer, resin can often be more precise and stiffer than most FDM printable materials, you should try a better design and a resin printed housing.

i think you could use a one way air valve maybe

I hope you’re aware that multistage axial compressors in jet engines spin at different speeds and individual shafts. Just an idea for future improvements

You just need to gear those compressors up, they need way more RPM then the motor itself can provide, I think the balloon is achievable with gearing

You should try to get clearances as tight as you can.

I'd suggest you are stalling the compressor due to the size of your exhaust diameter.

WD-40 Is more of a cleaner than a lubricant. It does lubricate temporarily, but if you want something long term you should use something else. Probably silicon oil in this case.

I make mine on one shaft and I add bearings.

Can you design micro 3d metal printed jet turbine

5:32 M5 screews? ;)

Micro-plastic galore :D

*But can it blow up a HOT WATER BOTTLE???*

since your motor isnt fastened to the housing and you have no trust bearing every test seems like the housing is puched back and then shit starts tro grind and clog. you need a trust bearing or have the motor fastened to the housing so it doesnt seperate

@nolanadam1093

3 ай бұрын

And simple one way blowoff valve or could do a clutched by rpm style like supercharger in og mad max procharger makes a similar type

That the balloon didn’t Pop is because it does not do enough pressure but enough volume for blowing the rest

Let's print kruuvi kompressor

Those "M5" screws look waaaayyyy to corse thread pitch to be M5 💀

the cause of the wear is anbalancend rotors

Dang I was so close to first

Why did you even bother making the 2 stage centrifugal version with only one bearing? Then you didn't secure it or the motor mount very well so everything was flapping around. It's like you deliberately made it to fail.

You have to manually stretch baloon few times to help it implode

I need to talk to you privately if possible

👍💪✌

This battery looks not good 😬

請翻譯成中文😊

The rubber of the balloon is too hard for the compressor to blow it up. Even human find it hard to blow a balloon. If the balloon is pre-blown, it will blow up.

First!

electroplate it!

What is the purpose of this? Why would you try and compress the air if you’re not going to inject fuel and ignite it? Just want to inflate a rubber glove? This exercise doesn’t make sense. Also, you’ll find it very difficult to seal this thing to gain any increase in pressure at all. Cmon dude, if you’re smart enough to CAD this design, you’re smart enough to know better.

@Chris27-

3 ай бұрын

wut

@sixdegrees6434

3 ай бұрын

@@Chris27- Ugh