Both my 1200 Rally Pro and Rally Explorer test bikes exhibited the rear shock issue. Bottoms out really easily. I then rode yet another 1200 Rally pro, did the same thing. I've told Triumph America about it. Combined with the rear wheel removal disaster, and the air filter under the fuel tank, plus the tiger 900 being so good... it's a hard sell. Love the motor though!

@BrakeMagazine

4 ай бұрын

Interesting for sure. Totally on the same page. What did Triumph say?

@BigRockMoto

4 ай бұрын

@@BrakeMagazine they never followed up. frankly I don't think they wanted to deal with it. to them I'm just another bike tester saying something annoying.. LOL. :)

@BrakeMagazine

4 ай бұрын

😂 It's not like a casual 200,000 people care what you say or anything 🙄 oh well! @@BigRockMoto

I’ve always loved the way moto journalists talk about😊 the bikes they ride. Thanks very much.

Reminder……. >75% of all big adventure bike riders (1250GS 1290, 1200) never take it off road more than the occasional gravel driveway or dirt road thats well maintained. Triumph knows that. That’s why suspension is set up like it is

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

It’s set up to bottom out on speed bumps. I fundamentally disagree. It’s the only ADV bike I’ve ridden in years that messes this up. Also, the idea the ADV bikes don’t go off-road is pretty misguided. You only have to spend some time outside of Europe to understand that.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

@@Chambers36TheEnter Depends where you live in the world.

@logangodofcandy

2 ай бұрын

I live in the US. We buy bikes that can do stuff we don't do because we like having the capability. Most adv bikes don't go off road, period.

Thanks for the honest review 👍 👍

Very interesting content and opinion. Having the atmospheric music really helps set the tone and mood.

Looks like a great all-rounder. And if I lived in Europe I'd be happy to own one. But here in Australia not being able to easily remove the rear wheel would be an absolute deal breaker for me. Sure, you can plug a simple puncture, but anything more and if you are 200 miles from the nearest help, good luck. FYI it takes me about 30 minutes to change a rear inner on my Africa Twin when I'm out in the bush.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

I agree completely. I’m sure it can be done quicker with time, but I’ve changed rear tyres on 8 bikes this year and this was horrendous compared to the rest. the GS is the gold standard of shaft drive wheel changes and shows this up really.

I have never been so torn over a bike as I am with this one. For the most part I love it, absolutely love it. Doing 1000 miles a day for 3 or 4 days in a row is no issue. Love the huge tank. My issue is with the clutch, I am on the second full replacement so I just don't have a lot of trust in it. Basically lost this riding year waiting for parts. Not sure if it was the mechanic but I had it at 3 different dealers so I would think it was either the parts or the design. Just not sure what I am going to do with it.

@daveo9844

6 ай бұрын

My clutch keeps getting air in it. Apparently they replaced the slave cylinder. It’s the only thing that really pisses me off because I prefer it over my old GS.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

That’s a shame because it is a beautiful bike.

@kerrylebel4285

6 ай бұрын

I have 25000 miles on my 23 Rally Pro with zero issues. You might have gotten a lemon bud.

@mikemills5144

6 ай бұрын

@kerrylebel4285 I think so. I have talked to a bunch of people and it seems there were problems with the ones made in 2022. Or maybe I just got the dud.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Some miles dude. @@kerrylebel4285

As always great content but video quality and editing is first class 👌 👏.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Thanks man! Editor Joe took charge on this one. His first full bike review start to finish. :D

@ourspanishadventures

6 ай бұрын

@BrakeMagazine your videos are always good but something came across on this one it seemed so well put together. Excellent work Joe 👏

My Triumph 900 GT pro is the perfect Goldilocks bike. Does everything well the engine is all you need and I use it all for the road. It’s a perfect sports tourer 👍🇬🇧

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Good to know! I like the 900 engine. I think the new one has more power again?

@ChrisSauer-oe5ve

2 ай бұрын

@@BrakeMagazineYes, I believe 13 more hp.

I had one of these for over an hour when I took my 2018 Tiger 800XRx in for some warranty work, and just didn't want to get off it! Love the wide bars, featherweight clutch, super comfy seat, adjustable suspension, and that T-plane crank engine note is just sublime. Found myself slowing down more than I normally would, just so I could accelerate again to hear the engine growl! Nice rounded review, but why do you expect this sort of bike to be a full on Motocross and Moto GP bike in one, that's not what it is!

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

I don't. I expect it to not feel like it's going to kill me if I hit a hole. Literally nothing about this video screams motocross

@flippy66

6 ай бұрын

Not sure where you got motox from, the continual and explicit comparison in this video is with the GS.

@PhatSimey

6 ай бұрын

​@@flippy66 Just the impression I got from the video, if the GS is a different animal, I'll take the reviewer's word for it, as never ridden one myself.

bloody massive machines - top video

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Thanks!

GSA Owner Chiming in. The New Tiger is Indeed an amazing machine, however it has a few quirks and Design Issues that detract from it. Random Explorer Models have Issues of the rear suspension bottoming excessively easily, even worse if you have loaded luggage. Rear wheel removal requires 7 different tools, while not a deal killer this affects true ADV riding use in a quite serious negative way. Software does not give a option for the bike to default to the last used settings and defaults to a factory set mode unless you use a button sequence, (this makes no sense) Air Filter Requires Removal of the Entire Fuel Tank, Anyone whom has an off road background knows that ease of access to the air filter in off road riding is vital. and Lastly a preference, off road benefits greatly from wider rear tires, the one on the Tiger is acceptable, but ability to have a wider full knob on the bike would be a major plus. If Triumph were to address these issues they would sell a LOT More Tigers.

nicely handled review

@BrakeMagazine

4 ай бұрын

Thanks!

Thanks. You really managed to bring it to a point. I own one since May 2022, with over 18k, yet we still don't get along, don't trust her when it matters ... And when she is down on the floor, she is one top heavy piece of sh*t to lift up. Compared to her, lifting a GS is a piece of cake.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Interesting indeed.

I own a 23 Rally Explorer, it is lightyears ahead of my '15 Explorer XC. Triumph has a new map out that totally fixes the fueling issues and cold starts. They also added lowering at stops for free. The thing I would say is this, what you get stock on the Triumph compared to others like the BMW "options" it ends up cheaper with the Tiger. Its a great bike and I do take it off road quite a bit, even been on some hiking trails with it :) and it did great. The engine is purrfect, the suspension while soft is adjustable and when I off-road I just crank the damping up. Make sure if you do river crossings, you drain the transaxel though as that breather lets water into the gear oil.

@BrakeMagazine

5 ай бұрын

Wait. Say that last one again? It does WHAT? 😂 Otherwise I agree. It's a lovely bike and comes packed with features.

Great video! I appreciated the nod to some of these reviews being just really good riders. I just picked up some be of these myself and I had to modify the throttle map to rain bc base off road mode (I.e. not the pro) felt like a setting that would be more on a sportier off road mode. Also curious about how you found the front of end. Other journos found that you had to bias being more over the front wheel to put weight on it to prevent slipping, thoughts?

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

I found the front end a bit loose if it was slippery, but it's also a pretty big bike on adventure tyres. There is a limit to the miracles. :)

Keep trying Triumph!

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

😂

I have a tiger 900 rally pro, it’s the best bike I’ve ever had, it’s not too tall and heavy like the 1200, it very good off road and comfortable for long journeys.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Totally agree!

@erixlast6020

6 ай бұрын

Jess

@RedRupert64

6 ай бұрын

To me, the 900 feels heavy and top-heavy after the KTM 890.

@erixlast6020

6 ай бұрын

@@RedRupert64 ktm is ok 890 for short people, triumph is biger and more cofort, ktm is more hardkor,not all need that

@RedRupert64

6 ай бұрын

@@erixlast6020 If the standard 890 is too low, there is the R version (that I have). Also there's a higher seat and lower pegs incase you find your legs too bent.

Great Salisbury Plain footage

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

A gem of a place to ride!

I totally agree. I have a Rally Exp and it’s great on the road, very comfortable and capable of laying down some serious km. I also take it off road a lot and for the most part she is also pretty capable for a 260kg big bike BUT when it gets tougher with rots and some decent erosion holes etc the back end does bottom out very easily and it makes me be overly cautious in these situations. I’m a good 95kg but still I don’t expect the rear suspension to bottom out as it does and I am seriously considering a KTM 890/Norden 901 Expedition as a second bike for these situations. Maybe I could get her re-sprung, I’m not sure. Also the electronics, whilst good, can’t be fully disables which is very frustrating as is it’s inability to go from road to off-road modes without coming to a complete stop. Very frustrating. Otherwise she is a great bike and I really love her but these issues are almost enough to make me question my commitment!

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Totally agree with this comment. The 890/Norden is a very different bike for sure. I reviewed it straight after this and the 1200 is an absolute gem of a road bike but incomparable off-road. The Morden drops that luxurious feel on the road, has some dive in the forks but off-road is a joy to ride. The seat is a bit wide but otherwise it's great. Norden review coming soon!

My ‘23 build has just received a major software update taking over 4 hours. Every major electronically controlled part including suspension has been upgraded inc dash and controls. Also now has lowering capability at stops. So this review may require revisiting immediately. Also has redesigned handlebars and mounts fitted

I sort of have the feeling Triumph have sort of reached the end of the road in what they can do with that frame and very high centre of mass. I know they redesigned the thing only a couple of years ago, but I would think twice before taking a bike like that to a place where I'd have to pick it up or change a tire.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Agreed.

@RedRupert64

6 ай бұрын

I also agree. After the GS 1250, the KTM 890 and 1290, other manufacturers need to find ways of lowering the CoG.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

@@RedRupert64 I think that's gonna come. The problem is, aesthetically brands like having the tank on top. And it does create some other awkward problems.

@kerrylebel4285

6 ай бұрын

LOL I beat the living hell out of my 23 Rally Pro and have had it all over the place. Its just fine to pick up and comes back for more. I love the T-Plane Triple motor WAY more than the boring Boxer motor I had in my last three GS's.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Good stuff. Glad you like your bike!@@kerrylebel4285

I dont know what people are complaining about with the music. Its at a good volume and your voice is generally forward in the mix. I think it helps move the video forward and keeps it from bogging down as the dialogue goes on and on. Its not perfect and as an audio engineer whos done alot of post work, id make adjustments but Im positive youll get it dialed and the naysayers will eventually lay off and forget they ever hated it.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Thanks! I literally am trying to learn to mix it better and create more separation. Thanks for the other viewpoint!

I’ve put 27k miles on my Tiger 1200 rally pro with lots of off road riding. Even recently won second place in an ADV roadbook rally on it. I agree with what you say about the rear shock being soft for the most part. I’m 72kg and have noticed it bottom out when loaded with gear, particularly on whoops that are by themself. If you have a couple in a row, the suspension will tighten up by the time you hit the second or third whoop 😂. Do you know when the last time that bike was serviced? There have been multiple updates to the suspension software (some good and some bad) so depending on which version you have makes a huge difference! The most recent ECU update is pretty good In my opinion the front end feel is VASTLY superior to the vague front end of the GS. Also the 21inch front along with the plush suspension allows you to absolutely send it on the Rocky stuff without breaking a sweat. The bike does not like to be ridden slowly. Really looking forward to someone releasing an aftermarket rear shock.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

I don't know, but it is a press bike from Triumph with 3K miles on it, so it should be up to date. Thanks for the added stuff. A comment with some sensible thoughts! I've pinned it :)

Same feeling as you. I am an heavy rider. I am looking for aftermarket rear suspension but cannot find any.

Big rock moto, also had the same issue. Bike is awesome except that rear shock seemed broken when off road.

@BrakeMagazine

4 ай бұрын

Good to hear. The man knows what’s up with Bike reviews!

hoping to see the new tiger 900 from you guys soon :D

Excellent comparison, I would be interested to see the Multistrada Rallye compared. Thanks.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Noted! Will probably be on our list for the spring time.

Eagerly waiting for your review of the new Tiger 900.

@BrakeMagazine

5 ай бұрын

Will be early march I think!

7:41 me too 👌

Interesting. In the recent "james-hillier-test" at MCN, they concluded that the Tiger12 did best at straddling the compromise of comfort onroad and performance offroad of the bunch. Obviously the 1290R was slightly faster on their offroad course, but that is a bit of a beast on a daily ride. On the other end of the spectrum the GS is a magic carpet, but was also the slowest on the offroad course. What's your thoughts on that? Is it a jack of all trades, master of none situation? Ps. I dont agree about the music being problematic. When I hear some of the tunes you've used frequently, I see roostertails and powerslides in my minds eye 😂

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

They tested at Sweet Lamb based on how fast the bikes were. I think that in its own right has a limit as a test. In general the Tiger is a beautiful street bike and fine off road but I wouldn’t trust it not to kick my arse or have me off. If the shock worked well I’d completely agree with their sentiment. Testing ADV bikes based on how fast they can ride a course is an odd metric. The more technical the terrain gets the slower the Tiger will get, the faster the BMW will get and the KTM will be constant, in my experience. Otherwise I mostly agree with them. It’s a bit like testing a toaster based on how quickly it burns bread. You’ll have a winner, but it might not be what you from the bike.

I just traded my 2023 Rally Explorer for a Norden Expedition. Issues with the Triumph for off-road - Air filter under the tank… changing that every night at camp with a head lamp… not a good feeling. - Air intake design does not allow fitting of pre-filters (so you ARE stuck with tank removal) - Rear brake pedal adjusts to high and low, after a couple of slow speed drops… it started to freely rotate. (Complex design for no gain… only pain) - The rear mounted radar. You cannot disable it permanently. So fitting double takes will leave you with a permanent error. - As a “low volume” bike. You cannot find many after market parts like crash bars. The OEM bars are pretty much ornamental - Rear wheel as mentioned was a pain in the a** to remove. - Gearing is too speed biased. This cannot be changed due to the shaft drive… 1st gear idle was about 20kph. Riding off-road slow requires a LOT of clutch slipping. The also have a tenancy to stall at low revs an early software update bumped up the idle which resulted in the increased speed. They really need to have the off-road rally set up to do a max of 180… 1st gear now should really be 2nd… there should be a crawler gear under that and there is no need for 6th. I got better fuel economy cruising at 100kph in 5th than I did in 6th…? Comfort…yeah wow. My suggestion is the GT Explorer would be the pick. Stay clear of the Rally it is only off-road in looks.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Awesome comment.

@bens5186

6 ай бұрын

@@BrakeMagazine The only brand that seems to have the basic concept of air filter needs to be easy access is KTM (and their other brands/colours). Lots of great bikes that are simply not outback worthy due to 3 really easy to avoid errors in design. 1. Air filter location: In extreme riding conditions such as central Australia when in a pack stuck following a ‘road train’ you may have to clean/swap/tap out the filter and/or pre filters every 1-2 fills. It’s clear that the designers have no idea about dust. The Ducati Desert X, seems like a great bike… as long as you stay OUT of the desert. If due to design and space constraints they need to at least provide snorkel intakes that are really easy to get to with OEM backed pre-filter options. 2. Oil filter (and other delicate components location: Bikes like the Toureg 660… seriously placing a engine in the bike where the oil filter is in an impact zone…. not something I would entertain riding off-road unless it had SERIOUS protection. 3. Tire change ease: massive torques on fasteners or overly complex wheel changes… good way to ruin your trip. I would really love it if people with channels that manufacturers are likely to see would include those as standards in all reviews. The Ducati is a prime example of a bike at least 8 people in my club went to the dealer to test ride with intent to buy but could not get past needing to remove the tank to do the filter. User serviceability should not be something they design out of the bikes, which is what appears to be the trend at the moment. Regardless of the scheduled service intervals I will always do oil changes at least every 5000kms due to the conditions I ride in. Back to the Tiger… it had an incredible 1600km service interval. that means I would have changed the oil 2-3 times between visits to the dealer as I ride mostly on dirt… getting that 30L tank and all the plastics off was annoying. Manufacturers should be encouraging intermediate services (low cost at dealer or DIY) both cheap and easy options IF it’s designed to be completed really fast and reduces the likelihood of engine failure related warranty claims. Great content mate. Keep it up!

The suspension settings are changeable in the menu. I often ride with the menu up when offroad- just push the joystick up if you desire more stiffness.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

I changed it to see if helped with that problem :)

Fully loaded, the Triumph with a 21' front wheel starts to lose contact with softer surfaces like sand and loose gravel at speed where it wallows about. A bit unnerving when you want control of such a heavy bike. You can try to stand and lean forward but that is not possible in many scenarios. Think I'll keep my boring GSA.

Sounds like my experience with the same Showa EERA baseline on the ATAS 1100 - somehow none of the settings ever felt as good as a halfway decent reworked set of the manual suspension. The shock was quite saggy while the forks were stiff/harsh regardless of the settings over high compression events.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Sounds like a Showa thing then. 🤔

@GCTO239

6 ай бұрын

​@@BrakeMagazineregular suspension on my Standard 1100 AT is also Showa. I had it tuned by an expert and now it is fucking brillant onroad and especially offroad. Nothing beats a perfectly trimmed standard suspension. No need for replacement or E-suspension. Overall Showa is great and so much more reliable than WP.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

@@GCTO239 Can't disagree with that.

As a « big boy » riding off-road with luggage I have the same feeling with de rear shock… maybe they lowered the bike to much in off-road modes. a stronger spring and higher preload settings should improve the situation. Otherwise, great bike !

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Totally agree.

I'm happy enough with my 2019 Ducati 1260 Multistrada Enduro

I have Raid tires on my vstrom 800 de. I have found that it makes a howling sound around 40mph. I like how it feels off road and on road but I am a bit dissappinted by the noise and I think vibration it adds to the bike. I may try trailmax mission next and compare. Hopefully howling slight vibration is gone.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

I have been riding it a ton on the V-Strom 800 and haven't found this 🤔

@trailrider1980

6 ай бұрын

​​@@BrakeMagazine does your rear tire have balance weights? Mine does not have any as it was perfectly balanced when it was first put on. So i am wondering if after 1,500 miles the tire is wearing unevenly and perhaps now it needs to be balanced. Do you think thats a possibility? Either that or I got a defective tire. It wasnt like that at the beginning.

Well said! Thats why i stick with my XcX 800 2018😊

Love the vid. Well scripted and quality is spot on. As for the bike id still go Africa Twin over the KTM, GS or Tiger

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

REALLY? Why?

Great review , question, if it was your money , would you buy any 1200cc bike to go off road ??? 🤔

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

If I could afford to, absolutely. I've ridden probably 50% of my adventure riding on 1200cc sized bikes. They work well as intended.

@andreaswales7739

6 ай бұрын

you're a brave man, ive tried 2 of them off road and it scared the living daylights out of me , ill stick to the lighter options 😅 still always a pleasure to watch you guys riding them , keep up the good work 👍@@BrakeMagazine

My Tiger 900 had a similar issue where it was very squirrelly off-road, and the manual says to remove all preload for off-road use, and then it’s way too soft.

@domenik8339

6 ай бұрын

There isn't a modern triumph that is actually good at offroading. Just look at the exhaust, low and ready to be smashed in by a rock. I blame British "green laning" which in America, we call a driveway, not "offroading."

@bobjohnson1633

4 ай бұрын

My scrambler 1200 has a low exhaust?

Have they figured out the issues with snapping frames on the 900RP?

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

No idea.

Take that trailmax raid in deep sand and get back to us on how good they are.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

It’s a 50-50 tyre. I’m yet to ride one that’s good in sand 😂

VW Had an advert "if you want a golf buy a golf" want a GS buy one , why would you buy a triple that thinks its a twin. It has a snachy throttle and vibrates like a washing machine, nuff said.

i love the comment 18,000 lb motorcycle, it makes me think "does this guy really know what he is taking about, or did he just miss his morning coffee.

@BrakeMagazine

2 ай бұрын

I don’t deal in freedom units sorry. I do deal in imperial money 😂

i'll still stick with my 2007 VStrom650 for real world riding and occasional forest service roads here in BC, Canada... it has just the right amount of electronics (EFI) without all the adjustable thingys and without the TFT... oh yes, it also has the best stock headlamps in the business, with the exception of the Goldwing! (better than many cars!) ... is it the "best" off road? hell no. is it competent and reliable? yup! Cheers and keep the (somewhat) shiny side up!

@devilslawyer1646

6 ай бұрын

I swore by my V-Strom 650 (I'm in Canada too), just loved it, and then I rode an Africa Twin 1100L. Sold the Strom. They are amazing, but they are NOT a true "adventure" bike,

Where are the roads u riding on? Looks great fun!

@BrakeMagazine

4 күн бұрын

Salisbury Plain, Wiltshire

Guess they have done so because…. It’s up to the riders to decide what they like. For certain riders it’s the Tiger, others the GS and for many the Africa Twin is unbeatable. It’s up to us. The riders.

@BrakeMagazine

4 ай бұрын

Totally agree.

“It’s not the worst I’ve ridden” lol

Stylema Brakes

You felt the dirt version was a better road bike than the road version?

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Yup. I'm not the only one that thinks this too. The problem with the GT is that it's really good at certain things, but the pendulum swings massively the other way in other areas. For example. it's a great long distance bike and great on a fast road, but on a tighter, slower twisty road the front folds a lot. it's also pretty tricky to ride slowly, u-turns etc, gets kicked around on less than perfect surfaces.

What I don’t understand with this kind of reviews (not only yours) is that you expect a full off-road capable bike but what you review is an adventure bike that fully loaded weights over 300kg! And the most Adventure bikes will never see any off-road tracks. The only dirt will come out of puddles in the street on the way to the biker-cafe on a summer Sunday. so it’s natural for the manufacturer to address to those people who can afford the luxury of a fully spect Motorbike. Even if it’s only for occasional joyrides. I have a friend that travels the world on an old Tiger 1200. I’m 209cm and I weigh 145kg. My choice is a Husky 901 Expedition and I love It. By the way…. Nice Video! ☺️👍

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Because they say it will. Because other bikes do. Because it's an adventure bike and that is kinda inherent. It should be comfy to do both, otherwise it's just a touring bike and then it's weird to have a touring bike with a 21-inch front wheel. Just some food for thought.

the rally pro should have been offered without an electronic suspension option so we could upgrade/tune it to our own needs, weight, etc.

@BrakeMagazine

3 ай бұрын

That would be cool. Still a superb road bike.

I’m on the fence on the tiger 1200. I want the rally as it looks so much better but I love a good handling bike. Are you saying I’ll be good on the 21” front? Thanks in advance.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Yes. I feel it's good. It's not a racetrack bike, but it handles well on the road.

@benkelly2190

6 ай бұрын

@@BrakeMagazine thanks. 🙏 I need a test ride.

@awesomeagnihotrisvlog

6 ай бұрын

Look at Suzuki 1000GX mate ……if you want something sporty and great handling

@benkelly2190

6 ай бұрын

@@awesomeagnihotrisvlog not inti IL4s .looks a nice bike tho.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

@@benkelly2190 It's the best way. Genuinely loved it on the road.

TRIUMPH TIGER 1200 OR KTM 1290 Super adventure R?? I can't decide 😭

Interestingly a pro dirt rider tested and timed the tiger, ducati, ktm, and gs on an offroad circuit. 2 runs. Best was KTM, then Tiger, then Ducati, then GS.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

I saw that. Interesting indeed. Some thoughts Hillier isn’t a Pro dirt bike rider. Hes a pro road racer and exceptional on the tarmac. He’s a very good dirt bike rider but I think these distinctions are important. For clarity, I am not a pro level dirt bike rider either. Secondly, speed on a smooth gravel roads doesn’t really have direct correlation with usefulness as an adventure bike. The GS is unequivocally better at technical off road that the Triumph, and infinitely more manageable. The tiger can be ridden fast and was enjoyable at that, until it hit a bump of any size and then it was horrendous. It’s an interesting anecdote, but kinda the wrong test, for the wrong thing. If the track had any harsh bumps in it, the Triumph would have sent him to the Dentist 😂 and in my experience even the nicest dirt roads eventually have a pot hole, a drainage ditch or something that needs suspension. If it didn’t have that, this video would be even more full of praise.

@shegocrazy

6 ай бұрын

@@BrakeMagazine Fair enough. Thing is that these big adventure bikes are simply too big, too heavy, and too expensive for serious off road stuff. They are fine on normal dirt roads but nothing gnarly. The gs front suspension is really vague on anything but good roads, but that might have been fixed on the 1300. I reckon if you were judging these 4 bikes on both dirt/tarmac then GS is best for road, KTM is best for off-road, Triumph best all-rounder, Ducati best grin factor. Just my opinion for what it's worth (probs not much lol).

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

The GS front suspension is an odd one. The more you ride it, the more you get the feeling. It's such a different design you need to re-program the touch a bit, but over time you find that feedback again. As for the overview, not far wrong, but the GS is the better all-rounder in my opinion. The Triumph is a just a bit too top heavy compared to the KTM and BMW to be easier enough to ride for most people. My two pence. :)@@shegocrazy

@shegocrazy

6 ай бұрын

@@BrakeMagazine They are all good bikes really. I actually like the Multistrada because of that motor and tech package but it is outrageously expensive here in Aus. Not sure about over there but here it is 25% more expensive than the Tiger or GS1250 and they are not cheap bikes to start with! Not so comfortable either and the fuel range is terrible. Anyhow that will do from me. Enjoying your content!

In the adventure biker circles that matter, these hybrid road bikes with tall suspensions, complex electronics, 500lb weight, just do not cut it like in places such as outback Australia, Central Asia or Africa. Who can afford a bike that chews through a $400 rear tyre in 3,000kms, only has a 250km fuel range and you can't pick it up? Here in Australia there are so many of these heavy hybrid bikes for sale that you can't give them away. So whats the most popular bike if you want to do really high dirt road mileages and not go broke or get stranded? The GS...no. The Triumph...no. the Multistrada...joking. There are three that stand out and they are old school. They are stone reliable, sip petrol and have a 500km range. They cost less than $10k used and tyres will last a crossing of the continent: Any BMW airhead. Suzuki DR650 Hinda XR650. What will you find in Asia that can be fixed anywhere? Honda CB125. I have seen families of four travel on these and they just do not break down. Some guys here in Australia did an east west crossing on for of them. The support bike broke. They didn't.

I have a GT pro, I feel it’s slow speed manners are pretty good when I’m threading my way through London traffic and back out again. How anybody takes these things off road is beyond me, the Rally is even taller and heavier but then I’m past 60 so maybe a younger guy can handle it better than this old fart lol. Wind protection isn’t brilliant and the dash is a bit laggy but all in all it’s been a great bike for me, it gets down the road when you want it to and cossets you when you’re tired and cold

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

The Rally is kinda easier to ride than the GT Pro. That’s mostly why. I did love the GT pro riding up to London for a day though!

@shegocrazy

6 ай бұрын

Agreed. None of these bikes in class are suitable for real off road riding.i wouldn't even dream of doing it with a passenger. Dirt road is fine but that's about it.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

@@shegocrazy I disagree. It might not be suitable for you, but that doesn't mean it's not suitable. It's like saying a S1000RR isn't suitable for a riding on the road if you're a beginner. You're right, but it doesn't make it an incapable street bike. Look through my channel and you'll see plenty of 'real' off-road on big bikes. I'm not an exceptional off-road rider, I just put some time into practicing. :)

@shegocrazy

6 ай бұрын

@BrakeMagazine yes you can do it.... but it's not ideal. I reckon around 400-500cc is the sweet spot for real off road.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

As an adventure bike? @@shegocrazy

Nobody will buy a 140hp refined touring machine that will be used on secondary dirt roads occasionally, thinking on how to adjust the suspension milimetrically. If you want to go to enduro tracks and be an absolute brute off-roading, you get a ktm or a bike with cheap plastics and better torque and weight. I won't sacrifice comfort on the planned 30.000 kms through South America I am doing the next year just for some better performance at jumps . Already did that trip on a 800xc and because of the reliability (better than GS indeed) I choose the Rally Pro. Bro on the video showed the bike is more than capable for the off road use the average Joe will give it. So it is a perfecy bike for me.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Tell me you don't ADV ride without telling me you don't adv ride...

@dafebeme2

6 ай бұрын

@BrakeMagazine I'm sorry I am not a pro like you, bro. In reality, 90% of people who buy these things aim to travel comfortably through Europe or ocassional dirt easy roads and won't risk thrashing such expensive machines on destroyed roads, only experts like you can afford to risk and have fun on such behemots without worring about bending a 200usd delicate aluminium foot pedal on a drop.

I don’t like electronic suspension, manual you can putt right where you want it. The Tiger 900 rally suspension is so much better than the 900gt

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

I think it needs to be the right suspension. The GS does a great job of it, but yeah, I think at the moment it needs some work.

Most riders I guess would not be riding the super gnarly stuff so in that regard Triumph got it right.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

What super gnarly stuff? 😂 What do you think is gnarly about this video?

Whick one is the best tiger1200 bs bmw 1300

@BrakeMagazine

5 ай бұрын

Depends on what you're doing. Both pretty good. GS is a little easier to ride.

@iansian829

5 ай бұрын

@@BrakeMagazine for a 5 5 in height what will you recommend i am using triumph tiger 900 gt for now but i am planning to get 1200 gt or the bmw 1250 or bmw 1300 ..which one will you recomend...i dont go for offroad just road bias

@BrakeMagazine

5 ай бұрын

It totally depends on how good you are at getting your feet down. The Triumph 1200 is tall and more top heavy. The GS can be made very low and has low centre of gravity. It's always personal, but I think the GS is better at this. Both are great road bikes. No bad choices.@@iansian829

@iansian829

5 ай бұрын

@@BrakeMagazine ok bro which bmw the 1250 gsa or the 1300 gs

@BrakeMagazine

5 ай бұрын

GSA and GS are very different bikes. GSA is a more touring, GS is more playful.@@iansian829

Shock issues are annoying... but not being able to change a tire trailside... can ruin a great bike/tour.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Agreed.

Forget the Tiger....did I spy an HP2?

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Sssshhhhh 😉

The problem is that BMW is always making better models, improving the GS. The GS 1250 is already out of date!

I'd bet that about 100% of the owners of big ADV bikes weight at least 100 kilos!

@KamikazeJoeNYC

6 ай бұрын

I weigh 72kg

@100CupsColombia

6 ай бұрын

@@KamikazeJoeNYC eat more pie

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

😂

I don't get why peeps buy ADV bikes when they dont go off road. My only guess is that its an expensive style thing.

Pan America all day. Go play with Mick Extance Harley Experience - he’ll lend you one for a day (if not, i’ll pay for one for a day for you on the experience). Day with him and bought a PA Special.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

I reviewed it already, both at Micks place for the PR intro and in the South of England. Glad you are enjoying the bike!

It's a catch 22 isn't it? The majority of Tiger owners will never take the bike off road, but were sold on the idea that if they wanted to, they could, but in prioritising on road performance, off road ability suffers. BMW started this with The Long Way Round, selling people the idea you could walk into a showroom and buy a bike to take you round the world (whereas the reality was a little different, but that didn't matter, the seed was planted in peoples minds).

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Why is the reality different? Plenty of people have ridden GS's around the world and are out ADV riding them now. I'm not sure that the limit of this tiger is prioritising on-road performance. I think they opted to use a product in the Showa Electronic Suspension that has limitations. BMW are finding clever ways around this, KTM don't bother and just use decent manual suspension.

Big Adventure motorcycles are not supposed to be ridden off-road as shown on this video. I own a Rally Pro and take it regularly off-road. I have also ridden / owned many of the competitors brands including a GS1250 a KTM 1290 SAR and an Africa Twin AS. My opinion is that none of these bikes are better than the Triumph off-road. Maybe the SAR has a bit more composure off-road but its on-road characteristics made me not want to ride to the trails at all. I do not understand the use of this video review because this kind of extreme riding is not intended for the whole big adventure category. The Tiger owners manual states the following: The motorcycles are designed for on-road and light off-road use. Light off-road use includes use on unpaved, dirt or gravel roads, but does not include riding on any motocross course, any off-road competition (such as motocross or enduro riding), or riding off-road with a passenger. Light off-road use does not include jumping the motorcycle or riding over obstacles. Do not attempt to jump over any bumps or obstacles. Do not attempt to ride over any obstacles. Extreme off-road use could lead to loss of motorcycle control and an accident.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

I didn't know riding down gravel roads I can take a pickup truck down constitutes extreme motocross riding. I get you love your bike my dude, but don't confuse that with meaning that you have the best bike for everything. As I said in the review, I genuinely loved this bike on the road. It is better all round than the KTM. That doesn't mean it's infallible or that this riding is anything close to extreme. I used this bike more gently than Triumphs OWN marketing material by a long way and the problem still existed for me. This whole channel is about using adventure bikes as adventure bikes. We ride off-road trails, almost all of them wide enough to get a car along, almost never particularly technically challenging and that is exactly what these bikes say they are for. It doesn't have 200+mm of travel and a 21-inch wheel for fun. Appreciate the view. Try to recognise your bias. It's okay to like your bike because you like. Good day.

I bought the bike and traded it back for a GSA. After 5000 miles on the Rally Explorer I found the engine is the weakest point, it never feels "right", hard to describe but the way the power unfolds is not matching with my riding style. Also I feel it is just not smooth for a bike in this size and class. Next weak point is the suspension. The components are top notch but the rear shock is under-sprung for taking the back anywhere off road- speaking of going off road, if you aren't a top tear Adv rider, you'll regret going anywhere off pavement. The display graphics are not very well designed and the menu is not really logic to operate. Then there is mysterious stalling every now and then when you pull the clutch to come to a stop. And last but not least, there is just no customization (after market) for this bike. Seems no one wants to touch it. Pro: the comfort is great, equipment is fantastic and the givi backs are 100 times better than the BMW Touratech ones. Biggest surprise: this bike doesn't get any hot. No heat from the engine or exhaust to your leg, feet or any of it.

@dafebeme2

6 ай бұрын

Triumph worked on the stall issue and solved it with a software update. Mine never stalled again.

@ogoshikimura5621

6 ай бұрын

@@dafebeme2 that’s good. Still wouldn’t get one again.

You can’t be replacing / upgrading the rear shocks on a bike costing that much but how sure are you that your press bike hadn’t been hammered by every man, woman and dog getting their jump shots? It should be able to take a hammering I agreed.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

It had about 3k miles on it. That's a hell of hammering. Ultimately I'm not sure, that's why I checked as said in the video.

no telever, no paralever = no gs.

Amazing review. I am seriously looking at one. I weigh 75kg and 6.2. I agree about the music. Just leave it out all together. So much content is ruined with shit background nonsense. Not that yours was anywhere near that but it's just not needed. It's been a massive pet peeve of mine more and more recently and the only reason I am mentioning it as someone else made a comment. But other than that your content is excellent as is your commentary!!

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Noted. Turn the background music up :P In all seriousness, the trend is born out of the data. If you control how the audience pays attention a little more, the audience retention in the video is higher, people watch longer and the views go up. I'll take a play with it and see how we can do better :)

@simondepass4647

6 ай бұрын

@@BrakeMagazine appreciate the reply. I just love the background of the surroundings wherever one is, for adventure riding that is. Keep up the excellent work.👍

“Really gear agnostic”… @01:54 ? So it’s gearing is skeptical about the existence of god??! :) Or Did I miss hear?

@mercenex6329

6 ай бұрын

Agnostic of something, depending on context. In our case its agnostic of the gear not god. He meant to say that the bike doesn't really care in which gear its being driven in - it has enough power and torque.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Or God. I should've asked!

@biscuitsalive

6 ай бұрын

@@mercenex6329 thanks. I got the jist of what he was meaning. But I had never heard the word used outside of “belief in god” context before. :)

I dislike supa electronic wizardry on bikes - just a $ grab by OEMs for a rolling cell phone....

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Fair enough. I like it when it works well.

Put a GS 1200+ and the 1200 Tiger on the ground and see which one is easier to pick up....then make the decision on which is a better motorcycle.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

I can agree with that 😅

Dont buy one of these kids.

Kill the music, really annoying to listen too, I think you are mistaken who this bike is for, it is a tourer that can handle mild off-road like hard soil surface, not trails that look more like a single trail. Otherwise good production quality (except for the background music) 😜

@guymathew1520

6 ай бұрын

Don't mind the music but otherwise agree with your comment. I've got one. It's 90% on road for me and 10% easy green lanes/fire road type environment. I'm not talented enough to go fast off-road and don't want to fuck up myself or the bike. I'll take a different bike for that sort of trip and live with the off-road limitations of the Tiger as I really enjoy the rest of the package.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

I'm not mistaken, I understand most people will be biased toward road riding. The same as they are with a GS. These bikes are being designed and sold to do both however and that shouldn't be ignored. The point I'm making it that as I rode this bike, I found it to be sketchy on even basic off-road. It's fine until there is something you don't see. Now in the UK you might not run across this problem, but in other parts of the world, the USA, Australia, SA, riding these kinda bikes on gravel roads with pot holes and washouts is pretty common. :)

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

The point here is that it's got a lot to do with your lack of talent. The better you are, the more you ride around a limitation. You have the skill. For yourself, that limitation has the potential to really make your life unpleasant when you hit hole late, on a simple gravel road, or British tarmac road after winter. Even at a slow speed, that can have some unpleasant results.

@guillaumepetin499

6 ай бұрын

Excellent review as always! I’m not sure why some are getting emotionally disturbed over the music? It was fine. Really. On a more serious note, how do you rate Triumph’s reliability/durability compared to BMW? Thank you!

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

@@guillaumepetin499 Not possible for me to gauge. I never get to spend enough time with them. I think they're probably on par at this point.

Ummmm......no yet

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

No yet indeed.

You aren't making an epic nature documentary, please lay off the background music a bit. Your editing and content is superb, no need to embellish with unnecessary background

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Interesting. We can improve 🤔

@avz7001

6 ай бұрын

This is a trend that has been creeping into videos of late, and often the music detracts from the content. I suspect that it's a way of extending the content or filling dead air.

@nickw8071

6 ай бұрын

Agreed. Channel makes great content and soundtrack isn’t needed. Less editing time = more dirt time

@brianlekei8920

6 ай бұрын

Seriously, come guys, would you prefer silence? Well done again, I didn’t even notice the music because I was listening to a man who is very well spoken, articulate and knows what he is talking about. Thank you Llel.

@WilliamWBG

6 ай бұрын

This is great advice. Too much Music ruins channels like this

Well since there's no "backcountry" in the UK and we're limited to a few greenlanes (for good reason) I'd say that the offroad considerations are basically irrelevant to 99.9% of riders...just as it is with the GS.

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

I mean, I kinda disagree with the idea we have a 'few' green lanes. Sure, it's not Oregon but we have some good stuff still. Secondly, most of the people watching these videos are not British.

Another touring bohemith with a off road tyres............ 95% of riders would have no right to take it on the gravel 😮

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

Why? Who is deciding that?

@minimanshed8910

6 ай бұрын

Again it's my opinion........ it weighs in at approx 250kg without all the luggage which means very few people could pick it up, without risk of injury. Not to mention the skill it takes to control it in off road conditions. We Don't need bikes this size to have an 'adventure'

@BrakeMagazine

6 ай бұрын

@@minimanshed8910 Again, I think you're applying bias to this that isn't true. With good technique I'd say most vaguely healthy humans can pick it. It'd b somewhere in the region of 80kg deadlift to lift it. I wrote an article a few years back about this and 80kg deadlift for most healthy people are perfectly achievable. It puts you in the region of 80-120% body weight deadlifts. The skills to ride one are pretty achievable if you want to learn them. I've taught roughly a thousand people at this point, from road riding to off-road and within 4-6 days of coaching most people can be competent enough to take an ADV bike on a gravel road based adventure and have a great time. Now of course you don't need a bike of this size, but that's a pretty moot point. You don't need a 690 either. You don't need a car to get to work if you have a bicycle, or feet, or a bus. Plenty of people have had epic rides on scooter, CT110's and in Asia people regularly ride around on Bajaj 200 in the mountains on destroyed roads. But that's not the point. For me, the point is to be inclusive. Motorcycling is meant to be fun and if someone is gonna enjoy riding a 1200, because they can, or they want to able to comfortably do long distance, then that should be encouraged. If you don't wanna do that, then don't. I'm behind it all either way but I don't think it's up to us to be telling people how they should do stuff based on our biases. Just because I don't think more than a couple of days on a step through would be fun, doesn't mean I'm gonna tell Ed March he's a moron for riding one literally everywhere, just like I'm not gonna tell Pol Tarres that he shouldn't be riding a Tenere 700 in Extreme Enduro's.

@minimanshed8910

6 ай бұрын

😆 thanks for taking the time to reply in full. You can of course ride, and teach people to ride, these huge bikes off road and have fun but my point was they are not ideal for most weekend warriors. I ride often on T.E.T trails and see people in dangerous situations because they are not proficient enough to handle this much bike. I simply think we should be encouraging people to pick a bike thats more suited to the trail conditions and their riding level. There is a huge difference between 400 - 800 cc and 1200 in power and weight.

I’ve got the 1200 rally explorer - it’s miles better than any GS !!

@BrakeMagazine

5 ай бұрын

Glad you like it Kevin.

Promo-SM 😇