Idea: some units will take cover behind shield units

@NEZCORPORATION_2100

Жыл бұрын

++++

@gingerparks9498

Жыл бұрын

@@NEZCORPORATION_2100 one step up to it is making the AI consider the types of units shields and strongs would take point or spec ops would be the first to attack before the other squads and having the other squads cover them idk how this would work tho

@Stylish_Actual

Жыл бұрын

That would be low-key more realistic too

@definitelypeacock

Жыл бұрын

@@gingerparks9498 I think I figured it out: shield enemies will have a hitbox behind them, and there will be a priority list for who has to go behind, weaker go first

A very small indie team is pulling all of this off meanwhile enemies in AAA games still take cover behind thin air

"my AI isnt all that great. There actually pretty dumb" Dont you ever lie in my face again wilson

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

Hahaha it's gone a long way! It was quite primitive and very buggy back then haha

@gunschlinger

Жыл бұрын

@@TREPANG2 even back then i was super impressed by it. You should be proud

Idea: last man standing expresses paranoia and extreme fear through dialogue and false alarms

@ImNotFine44

Жыл бұрын

Brilliant

The body-language is spot-on mates, ...they actually look like they are searching for you! Brilliant work again man.

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

Will be making the search behavior a bit more realistic with a memory of searched places, so once a place is searched they won't search it again (a sneaky player can cloak and use this to their advantage)

@Tenshihan-Quinn

Жыл бұрын

@@TREPANG2 AWESOME! Thank you so much for all your hard work! That will definitely be perfect for my playstyle, I also love games like Thief & Splinter-cell - so this will be even more immersive! Cheers!

@Afganistan289

Жыл бұрын

@@TREPANG2 multiplayer mode would be cool like coop or player squad vs 107?

This is the kind of AI I don't think AAA studio's have the luxury to invest into because for all their extra dough, they just don't have the time indies have lol. Real happy to see you solve the single-file doorway massacres I see in so many games with mooks going in single file to be popped. Can't wait to see more!

@noproblemo5521

Жыл бұрын

Only for modern AAA devs,not like in the olden days.

@nicobenji0248

Жыл бұрын

There's also graphics to consider. Graphics, AI computations, physics, etc require work from your hardware. So increasing graphics increases the work on your hardware. A lot of AAA devs know this. But they know if they scale back their graphics for better AI, physics, etc then people will make accusations about them for scaling back graphics. So most games choose to have poor AI consciously. The only games that have good graphics, AI, physics, etc, etc. in their games are games with huge budgets like Rockstar(Red Dead 2/GTA 5), Naughty Dog, and only a few others. The reason that is cause they have thousands of people working on their games and optimizing it's performance cause they're willing to invest a huge budget into their game devs. Some games prioritize graphics then the fps on system tanks and then when they include intelligent AI it gets worse. Sometimes it's done on purpose to appeal to a "broader" (casual) audience. In the process they disappoint most people who've played a shooter for more than a year lol. Sidenote: CDPR is an example of how not to use a big budget. Instead of keeping good devs on the payroll they opted to blow their budget on hollywood actors, celebrity voice actors, licensed songs, and hiring voice actors for 10 languages, and advertising. Point being big budget does not equal good development cause the budget doesn't mean their using it properly on primarily on their devs. Lot of AAA studios fall into the trap of spending their budget the wrong way and in the process neglecting good talent at their studios.

The work and effort put into the A.I. in Trepang is seriously impressive. It's a shame the game never encourages you to slow down and actually notice it.

Looks wild so far. I am curious about a couple of things: Are individual AI entities aware of each other, or do they operate independently similar to FEAR AI? Because at one point, it seems like one of the entities gets stuck on another trying to enter a room, but then they seem to cooperate when a hostage is taken (one stays, one flanks). Will the game have various difficulty levels? If so, does AI behavior change based on that or would it be a simple damage recalculation? Fantastic work. Really looking forward to this.

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

Most immediate behaviors (i.e. shooting, reloading, taking cover etc) are done at the individual level, so they just do it as soon as possible without considering any info from their friends. Movement (with the exception of taking cover) is done at the squad level, so the squad is split into two elements (fire and maneuver), the fire element tries to suppress the enemy while the maneuver element moves to flank. The roles switch after some time. They try to avoid running in front of each other to avoid friendly fire and the fire element tries to spread out into a line/wedge so they can put a lot of fire while avoiding bunching up (but if you sneak up on them they'll be conveniently lined up for you). There's also a "squad memory" of bad locations where squadmates died or the player throw grenades or enemies put a lot of fire into, so they try to remember dangerous spots and avoid charging into them if possible. Dialogue is also done at the squad level ("Squad take cover!") just like FEAR, and just like FEAR it is mostly smoke and mirrors :P (ai decides behavior first, then dialogue plays, making it look like a squad leader is giving orders and his squadmates are listening, but it's already decided at that point) Unfortunately they can occasionally get stuck while pathing (realtime pathfinding around moving objects can be bad for performance). In FEAR they actually avoided this by letting them phase through each other haha. We have some avoidance code that in most cases prevents them bumping into each other by modifying their path slightly to go around other NPCs, but failing that one of them will eventually back off as seen in the video. It's a pretty rare occurence but I can prevent it entirely by doing a collision check on their path and just making one of them pause briefly if a collision is predicted - so this might be fixed if time permits. In the demo their behaviors differed by difficulty but this looked a bit buggy at times. In the final release (or next demo maybe?) the behaviors will be the same across all difficulties, but reaction times, accuracy and damage will be scaled across difficulties

@MuchKoku

Жыл бұрын

@@TREPANG2 Great information. Thanks for getting back to me. I know you must be swamped with work. That all sounds (and looks) amazing. I especially like the idea of having enemies spread out to create a wall of fire, while simultaneously avoiding zones they deem dangerous. Makes me wonder if I can utilize grenades or gunfire to bait them into a room I have no intention of entering; throw off their game plan so I can flank around. Probably works in reverse, too. Opening up in the wrong place or at the wrong time might leave the player boxed in with nowhere to go but through. A great mix of all out gunplay and tactical planning. Having them swap between team behavior and individual behavior makes perfect sense. A real squad moving towards an objective would move as a unit. The second the shit hits the fan, everyone would be expected to take care of themselves on some level. Nobody is going to wait to be told to take cover, especially if they're getting shot at. For me, the AI makes or breaks a shooter, and Trepang is looking like it's ready to inherit the throne from FEAR.

Civvie11 just did a fantastic video on FEAR and what made it amazing. AI is incredibly important to the flow of combat and the overall experience. This update looks like it really steps the combat up and I'm looking forward to the release, however long that takes.

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

Couldn't agree more!

I really appreciate the way you guys show off "behind the scenes" bits of the game, cool as hell. Would like to ask though, are there any plans to make the AI more cohesive/calm when they're at an advantage? Currently it seems like they tend towards isolating themselves as they move through areas with multiple paths, and willingly leave good positions without being pressured.

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

For gameplay reasons they have to spread out a lot - enemies close together can get easily "John Wick"d (or turned into bowling pins with a well placed slide) by the player in seconds, so in order to present more of a challenge for gameplay they spread out a lot more than would make sense in a real life scenario. As soon as they hear gunfire they will all converge but try to do it from multiple angles, so it is possible to get surrounded quickly. There is a simple aggro system so if they have a lot of good firing positions and outnumber their enemies, they will try to attack more aggressively, whereas if many are pinned down or the squad is outnumbered they will try to regroup and fall back.

@bruhmoment5465

Жыл бұрын

@@TREPANG2 badass

I wonder if they could be made to use grenades tactically. Like rather just throwing them for the sake of blowing you up (which is still an option), they may deliberately throw it in a manner that forces you out in the open or at least out of cover. For example: You take cover behind a desk, you fire from the right side and they suppress. They then throw a grenade on the left side of the desk while they are letting loose making you having to run into the suppressive fire. Different grenade types would be great too. Though I assume this is planned since there is a keybind to cycle between them. Flashbangs, smoke, gas... all have their uses against you, and against them.

@fugwahfugi404

Жыл бұрын

Different grenade types would be cool.

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

Hmmm this is an interesting idea...

@NighttimeJuneau

Жыл бұрын

I guess the practical approach would be to allow the AI agents to prepare a "flush", get into position, throw a grenade into your cover and rush you. If they're interrupted, move back to a regular assault, but there could be some interesting maneuvres they prepare and execute if the situation seems fitting (like target in cover, sufficient space nearby, enough units available).

You have my full admiration, it's been a long time since a dev team took the AI systems of FEAR as inspiration for something new.

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

its like watching a documentary on insects, really interesting

Gotta say I love what y'all did with this game so much. The AI feel genuinely fresh to fight, and don't feel like brainless lemmings. Only wish you added a feature so you don't consume stamina when combat isnt going.

Trepang 2 might have the most advanced ai I’ve seen in a while

Glad to see this! Keep up the good work!

Brilliant showcase, guys. Even the latest demo thoroughly impressed me with how cunning the AI were. I wondered at times if the AI could see me through walls, and this shows, definitively, that they are actually just much smarter than I'm used to. I wonder if this is the video that makes the game finally blow up. Watching the AI do their thing is kind of entrancing. I'm curious how this AI affects the campaign experience. As a bit of critique, I hope the campaign isn't a series of independent missions/maps as the latest demo suggests it might be. I was hoping for more of a Half-Life style campaign where the player goes on a long, uninterrupted, and dynamic journey (basically a grand extension of the escape mission). In any case, I've seen enough to trust that you guys are designing a compelling experience that will be epic in whatever form it takes.

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

In most games the enemies basically have ESP once they detect the player, but we wanted to avoid that because of the cloaking, stealth and speed advantage the player has, so they can truly feel like a super soldier outsmarting and out maneuvering their enemies. But of course we do want them to be really tough and challenging too, so it feels extra rewarding if you can sneak up on them.

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

We went for independent missions rather than a continuous Half Life style campaign because we wanted to go for more variety in environments and enemies. You get to travel all over the world and fight all kinds of enemies. There will be a sense of continuity as the story progresses and you experience story events at the safehouse between missions, and the main campaign missions are a decent length too (30-60 mins each) so it's pretty immersive.

@AGFuzzyPancake

Жыл бұрын

@@TREPANG2 It's refreshing to read such a forthcoming reply regarding the structure of the game when it's not what I think I want. For your writing, and for your work in creating something so artful thus far, thank you.

@AGFuzzyPancake

Жыл бұрын

​@@TREPANG2 What you've described is indeed how the game comes across. I am just one against many deadly bad guys, so I have to use every advantage I have.

Should have it so that if youre invisible and you're being too loud near them, they will fire towards where they heard it and make a callout such as "He's invisible!", and if they hit you they continue shooting cuz the blood splats (maybe) Also, only make them shoot towards disembodied sounds if you cloak or uncloak in front of one of them and give them enough time to communicate, like "He's got active camo, look out!," otherwise they should just comment on "What was that noise?" and melee swing or shoot after enough disturbance, and then calling out that you have camo if they hit you of course.

the way you guys balanced the slow motion . really make the AI formidable

This delay will definitely be worth it, I can tell!

So excited for this game! It would be really neat to see AI vs AI, with all the sight lines and pathways highlighted to see how they interact together and change on the fly.

amazing work, cannot wait to see what the final game will be like

Will there be lines for npcs that are something like: "guys are you all dead?" when one of them is the only guy left? It would add a lot to the immersion

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

That's a good idea.

Would be interesting for a difficulty option in a first person shooter to change only the AI behaviour (and pickups in the environment or dropped) and not the damage given/taken. Its more fun on an even playing field but the challenge is being better than the AI and not having to worry about one hit kills from higher difficulty levels.

Awesome upload, I enjoyed this.

No wonder these guys kick my ass. Love this!

that is so cool bro, i wanna this game in 2023 ;)

This is a Max Payne/F.E.A.R. fan's dreams coming true! Wishing y'all the best on dev time! Take as much as ya need to get a great product!

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!

Is it safe to assume the design of this AI is like the GOAL oriented AI like that seen in FEAR, or was a different AI format used?

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

We use behavior trees (same technique used in the Halo games). IMO it's more designer friendly, easier to debug and with the fail states it lets us create very stubborn and determined enemies. GOAP is great for having a lot of scripted behaviors that can smoothly transition between each other (i.e. rolling, flipping tables, crawling etc), but Trepang2 is a very fast paced game so it's more about positioning and firing. The original ai code from 2017-2019 was mostly based off the combine ai from HL2. So you can say the AI takes a bit from the Half-Life and Halo games as well as FEAR :P

@slowjamsliver7006

Жыл бұрын

@@TREPANG2 No, that is fair. Coding takes a long time without having to account for debugging and testing. I'm definitely not taking AI, and also prefer to keep things simple. Still very cool to see your AI in action. You have definitely produced something that gets close to that feeling of the AI not just rushing blinding into something. Though I definitely remember the suppressive fire in Halo after have come from somewhere. Never played Half-Life beyond a demo sadly.

@NighttimeJuneau

Жыл бұрын

@@TREPANG2 That's super interesting, I read quite a bit about goal-oriented action planning and how to apply it and was wondering for some time how FEAR only had three states for planning (I think it was idle, attack, use smart object). I wouldn't hesitate to use the AI of Half-Life 2 as a reference starting out either.

One thing I really liked about the FEAR ai is that they’d sometimes knock stuff over for cover, it added a cool dynamic feel to the fights. Does the ai in this game interact with it’s environment in a similar way?

Any chance we get some AI vs AI fights? Seems like it'd be a real delight with compexity like this.

@DREADLURKER

Жыл бұрын

Your allies tf27 will be hostile towards horizon forces

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

There will be some multi faction fights in the campaign, and with the tmod sandbox mode you can make your own crazy spawn battles like gmod: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qnVpsJNuo92TpsY.html

This is remarkable. Thanks for highlighting these behaviors. They're really unique.

They're like real players, crazy.

@joyisgoodlol

Жыл бұрын

Plus,this game wasn't made with one person.

@noproblemo5521

Жыл бұрын

@@joyisgoodlol Lmao,I remember his comment. XD

That's crazy good guys. It would be cool to see more moves in AI arsenal. Like vaulting over cover intstead of running around it, crawling after getting wounded. Little things like that make games so much more believieble.

I just got to Jorvik Castle on Rage Mode….bro y’all didn’t have to make the AI this godly 😂 They’re fuckin insane man but i can’t complain! You are going up against how many trained dudes with guns at the same time lmao. Amazing work on this game,im here to support whatever you guys do from now on! Y’all worked your asses off,anyone who plays this game can tell! Update: I just beat it after 3 and a half hours,not having much ammo Vs the patriarch and his goons but I did it 🤣🤣🤣 Jesus

Finally got this on Xbox I’m loving this game

Amazing.

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

Glad you think so!

Waiting)

Make them like fear. Perfekt

Please . when one day Trepang2 get a sequel . name it episode 1 !

Loving this game, had it on pre-order for PS5, super stoked to finally play. Got my ass handed to me at a horizon courtyard for about 45 mins… the AI is no joke.

Hope the game gets released for consoles too.

@bigfootinhiding8641

Жыл бұрын

Same here!

Yo devs I just want to say this is got to be one of the most fun games ever its already so good even tho it is still in Demo.....Keep up the good work!... Btw I have a request can you guys make Melees for the game?, I know ya'll busy with making the game better but I really want to see melees added.

Curious. You plan mod support for your game by any chance? I love the use of custom Blutilities you made there on the center right.

Can you make enemy crouch cover behind the wall of cover they sometimes can blind fire at you ( Standing with arms outstretched with a gun and shooting randomly. hope to hit the target of throw the grenade etc throwable stuffs like GTA V Cover System )

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

That's a good idea, thank you!

I love these indie games because of how much love is put into them, other than games like Battlefield 2042 and Fallout 76. AAA Developers will never come close to the way indie game developers create games.

Holy shit..Played the game and these guys are giving me a hard time. Their AI is actually intelligent

Hey guys, does the AI change behavior when using different kinds of guns? and if a AI battle was going between the two factions, would it look like a actual firefight? and does the same level of development of development apply to the AI of your allies? Anyways, awesome video explaining how the ai works

I wanna know if the Juggernaut or Shield dudes have any different behavior compared to the regular dudes Also does the weapons they have matter to the others(example will the game try to make dudes with shotguns push rooms or any gun do the job)

I have a question: Do the AI have personalities? What I mean is some guy could be focused and it would narrow his sight and he would be easier to surprise while he focuses on the point you were at. Or someone could be an avenger and go on a rampage if he is the only one left, maybe pickup a second weapon from a dead soldier and start spraying around angrily shouting. Or a coward, that sticks to the back and turns around more and notices things faster?

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

Enemy archetypes do prioritize different behaviors, for example a shield guy or shotgun guy will try to rush the enemy, while a support guy or DMR guy tries to suppress from far away. The black ops are a bit insane, they'll rush enemies even if under fire and throw grenades even if it endangers themselves lol

@cipherstormwolf14

Жыл бұрын

@@TREPANG2 Nice, love the progress!

@Afganistan289

Жыл бұрын

@@TREPANG2 i love killing black ops :))))

As if the AI couldn't get any better, it did. I need to stay more up-to-date with the demo, I keep missing stuff without realizing it O_O

Would you say the AI is on par with the original Fear? Some people are saying it is but the movement is much faster while other people are saying it's not even close but it's a good try.

@fearcommunity

6 ай бұрын

In F.E.A.R. the AI gave the impression of self preservation and would run away when down to the last man. The Radio chatter, flanking and trying to flush you out with grenades gave them a feeling of life, this side is the same between both games. In Trepang2 the AI is a LOT more aggressive and will force themselves upon you. There is similarities between both games.

@Particle_Ghost

6 ай бұрын

@@fearcommunity Sounds great. I bought the Deluxe Edition on sale a few hours ago, I'll probably get to it soon.

I cant start a game, im stuck in the lobby because the marker where my mouse is, is not where it actually points so i cant click at the start button.

will we see the friendly AI and how they work I assume they work the same way but how do they work with the player do they not care about the player or do they try to help the player and work with them the same way they would with their squad?

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

They use mostly the same ai and they do take into account the player's position (i.e. try not to friendly fire). In some parts of the campaign they'll defend a position with you, sometimes they'll follow you to an objective. They're generally less aggressive though so they won't steal too many kills or get in your way too much

@gingerparks9498

Жыл бұрын

@@TREPANG2 Huh thats cool I do think making them more aggressive when the player is not around them would be cool like if they are in another area of the map but I assume they will be quite competent considering the hostile AI

@Afganistan289

Жыл бұрын

@@TREPANG2 thx for spoilers

hi i have a question i like trepang2 but when will full game will be out?

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

When were finished polishing it!

@kakaluc4789

Жыл бұрын

@@TREPANG2 amazing idea why didnt i think of that🤔

thank you. i was waiting for a video like this.

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

No problem!

Did you guys get in contact at all with the devs from fear to see what they think of your game? Can you guys make a video on your inspirations for trepang2 and how similar you want it to be to fear. Is this a spiritual successor or what exactly is it.also will this have an actual story

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

Thank for the suggestion, yes there is a story for the game.

So how is this compared to F.E.A.R on this front?

we need the ability to throw grenades back

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

That's a great idea.

tree pan 2

How much would the game cost on steam?

@TREPANG2

Жыл бұрын

price to still TBD

The Vault in this game still has to be perfected. It should be made exactly like the vault Becket had in FEAR 2. That vault was awesome!. Presently the vault in this game feels too rushed. Like the player is flying in the air whenever he tries to execute it. Also brutal upclose takedowns should be added in this game. Also the design for the assualt rifle needs to be enhanced. Currently the assualt rifle looks really bland and dull. I reccommend putting a AK12 in its place. The reload mechanics should have more depth and should not be rushed. The player should feel the depth and intensity of reloading his firearm. Also when it comes to duel wielding weapons, only pistols can be duel wielded. Just like in FEAR 1. That will look more realistic. Aside from these issues the game looks great. The black armor design is really better than the green crap, that i saw in the earlier demo.

0:00 blya

aimbot

Yeah uhh ‘quick’

Huge studios really have no excuse making worse AI (and games) than a small team like this other than money laundering.

just wondering will this game be released in 2023 with new guns and stuff?