Top tip: Line can with insulator. Tape can with aluminium or copper tape where lid meets can. Use Mylar bags sealed within can. All in all that should get you another 55db protection

My only problem is that when an EMP goes off it won't matter if you have electronic equipment safe because there will be more EMP's gauranteed.

If you're really concerned, about your equipment, then you can do what they call a double Faday cage. Do the one cage inside of the other. But the outside cage cannot touch the inside cage and you ground the outside cage. And you should get absolutely no radio interference inside the inner can. It should stop everything. I use the peanut packing stuff. It's kind of a foam you know most of the time. It's colors, no matter, but it's you know whatever, It works..

Very informative video Jack. Thank you very much.

@HamHomestead

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Thanks for doing this test!

Good video. I learned a lot I didn’t know, very informative and interesting. Thanks. Mark NQ0R

The area around the lid let's some in a seal around the lid will make a difference. It is OK if you talk slow. Some of us don't hear very fast! I just saw a video that he put a seal around the led to make good electric connection and it dropped the signal down much better. I try to get information from many different places. Some say one thing and others say other things. Much of the time it is just the way they say the same thing that helps my old brain soak it in. Thank you for the information! 73 W4DES

Jack, basically you have to provide a metal screen over any equipment that has transistors or diodes. The best car for an EMP is a Volkswagen. They don't have any of the modern circuits that our cars do now. I got this directly from one of the men that helped develope the "A" bomb. He kept a 1962 Karman Ghia in his garage for a "bug out" vehicle. So if you screen over it,ground the screen.

Thanks for the video. I liked the way you recorded and analyzed the data to be as impartial as possible. I noticed that you did a good job varying the frequencies, but it seems like you're keeping the power output constant for all tests. It might be possible that the effectiveness (as a percent or absolute amount of dB) of the can changes as the power output of the source changes. It would be interesting to add another dimension to your samples where you show the effect of varying the power output and the frequency output. So basically you have a table with p=1W, then p=5W, etc. If you do several tables of different powers, we might be able to extrapolate what an extremely high power source (like an EMP) would do to the can.

@lepidoptera9337

2 жыл бұрын

The total power does not matter. It is unlikely that the magnetic field will saturate the material. If you are that close, the EMP is the least of your problems. :-)

The HEMP is the one EVERYONE needs to prep for!!

Forgot.... TRY A “GASKET” in between the lid and the top rim . Even rolled and “crushed” up aluminum foil will work well. Thank you for researching this... Not many of the “experts” have. (If ‘ya know what I mean 🙄)

Great video! Thank you!

@HamHomestead

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Very interesting

I’m a EE and have worked on this stuff. In the old days MOV were not fast enough. Now my understanding is that they are about 1ns. The TVS’s are now about 1ts. Both and some high saturation cores in each phase of house lines or DC lines give you the best protection. The best stuff I’ve found is from a NASA PhD EE that sells stuff online and has KZread videos as EMPDOCTOR. I just got a $250 EMP tester kit that I’m building and will do a lot of testing of cages I’ve build and various bags and other cages I’m going to build. I use the galvanized steel 31 gallon trash cans with conductive adhesive copper take on all seams inside and out. Plus I tape the top rim of the can and the inside rim of the lid. Then I line the bottom and inside with cardboard. I’m expecting to see about 60 db of suppression.

Very interesting subject. I'll have a look at your follow up on this. And btw, you're not the only one with the talk/think problem..... 73's from Xander (learning for novice, JO21DM).

@HamHomestead

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks Xander, I was out playing with more testing today and will hopefully have the next video out by the end of the week. Some interesting results!!

Thank you.

Is any type of compression conductive that connects to? The lid will work to seal the electrical shell. Like one of the guys said the aluminum foil stuff, Pretty much works the best, Because it actually scrunches down to close off any air gaps, they are you're enemy.

I've wondered how effective my house and shop would be at blocking EMP/RF. I know my cell phone doesn't work inside my shop and wifi works but sucks. We got hit by lightning a couple years back. I was outside when it happened and the strike was right above the house. Fried my brand new well pump saver and a laptop. I need to upgrade my surge protectors.

@HamHomestead

5 жыл бұрын

Well I hope to build a small metal "shop" and do some testing. I know it will provide some but how much, I am not real sure. Your location (in fact that whole area) seems very prone to lightning ( I always claim its because there is so much gold in the ground!!! ). There are more lighting stuck trees up there than you can shake a stick at.

You didn't mention lining the can with foam to protect electronics from touching the inside of the can?

try a shipping container !

Does the attenuation change at very high power? Would the faraday cage break down at power levels that you would actually see in an EMP pulse?

Ham Homestead....So, what's the bottom line? Aside from the technical explanation, does the trash can provide enough protection as a Faraday cage for electronic devices? Additionally, what if the inside of the can is lined, top to bottom with cardboard? How does that change the results?

@murphyzlaw13

Жыл бұрын

That's my thought as well. He did an excellent video and awesome job of showing us the DBs of different freqs but, like you said ....bottom line, does it work or not..?? I have seen alot of videos on this very subject and it's like everyone is divided as to whether it works or not.

Have you been using your micro-wave with the door open and safety switches jumper-ed out...

Does foil do anything?

We live in a seamless steel sided building and my husband said we live inside a faraday cage. LOL

Just wrap your whole house with Reynolds Wrap, at least 5 times....

It is actually known for using those little repeaters for your Wi-Fi. They're very-high-frequency like 2.4 gig. They have a hard time even going through walls normal walls so you're seeing a real attenuation locks. There just going through walls if you close the bedroom door it'll weaken your signal to your Wi-Fi if you're in the bedroom and then the transmitters to the other end of the house in the front room. So you lose a lot just do that with high high frequencies. The higher the frequency the greater the laws through any object..

@oldmech619

Жыл бұрын

In 1962, the US explode a thermal nuclear bomb named Starfish Prime at an altitude of 400 kilometers in the pacific. The EMP knocked out some electronics 1500 km away in Hawaii. The EMP threat is powerful and it is real.

Has anyone heard of Soviet tests of overpower EMP that renders metals non conductive?

So it works or no?

Really interesting discussion and tests about EMP. I'm of the opinion that if the 'big one' hits, our radio gear will be the least of our worries, particularly if you live in a large populated area, which would likely be a target for multiple devices (I live just about 6 km from a large city in the UK) ;-) Taking precautions for things like lightening etc. is, of course definitely worth considering..... the 'mass destruction' stuff (scary to think about), I'll try not to lose much sleep over. As long as they don't wipe out my internet connection, so I can watch KZread/Netflix, then all will be good :-) Thanks for an interesting video. 73

@PowderMill

3 жыл бұрын

😷🦠🐔 Seriously.?. Comms is key! Ham Homestead is on-target and did an excellent presentation here. I used to work in the field of public-safety comms ... trust me, you will be well advised to put away a few communications devices in Faraday Cage type enclosures. The ability to communicate is so vital, I am surprised how many people do not recognize this. Most of The public-safety infrastructure is “protected “ from general lightning/ surge risks according to the Motorola #56 “Grounding and Bonding Bible”. Many agencies specifically “harden” their primary control gear and transceivers. Most remote repeaters and voting receiver sites are much less protected. Ok.... Does this mean they have thought about EMP? *NOT* ! The only true method of ensuring sustainable communications post EMP event is to take hardware, spare parts and tools and place them in Faraday style protective enclosures. I did the same type of “garbage can” testing. I used my Agilent n9340b (9khz to 6ghz) spectrum analyzer ($12k) AND (for shits and giggles) I also used my newly acquired “TinySA” ($60-80) Pretty similar results.... A “gasket” is most definitely a critical part... Also... I have 4x. “Greenlee” brand “Job Boxes” sitting in my basement left over from the construction of out home. I took 2 of them and made them “Ammo Storage” and stacked mil.spec style ammo cans inside. I took the other 2 and made them into “Faraday Boxes” . I ground off the paint in all touching surfaces, added multiple bonding straps between the hinged lid and the body, added 2 ground straps to a grounding bus bar connected to my “Ufer Grounding System”. (2x of everything for redundancy) Inside the job boxes, I added large mil.spec ammo cans for the most sensitive gear. (each had the gasket removed, paint removed, “crushable” copper mesh gasketing installed. They are bonded to the Greenlee job box with 4 bolts straight through both metallic surfaces. Shooting RF up to 5.5GHz into the “system”, I was able to achieve close to --125dbm of attenuation. The lower the frequency, the higher the attenuation, but not by much more than 1-2dbm.. Thanks for a nice video,

Jack you may of mentioned it ,but I was wondering how your Thumb was doing?

@HamHomestead

5 жыл бұрын

Well... its better, at least now I can touch things with my thumb without trying to let out a cuss word!

national geographic doomsday preppers was the tv show that came out and had possibilities but made preppers out into a bunch of bunker making crazies. Unfortunately it could have been better but instead they found crazies and made fun of them instead. This show was the precipice of all the other prepper tv shows that popped up about that time.

@HamHomestead

5 жыл бұрын

Yep thank you, could not remember the name of that show to save my life.

Can you answer this question for me. Copper tape comes with one side conductive and both sides conductive. Which do I need to cover seam on a galvenized aluminum trash can.

@CatHound

8 ай бұрын

You put the sticky side to the can. Foil facing out

@patriotcountry4716

8 ай бұрын

@cathound That's not what I ask so I'm not a idiot sweetie.

So,, if the gear is not hooked to a power source or antenna, it will not be effected, right?

@HamHomestead

5 жыл бұрын

Scott pretty much summed it up. The ARRL testing (if I remember right they were allowed to use the navys EMP chamber) found that little or no damage occurred without an antenna connected and I think no damage at all happened to when the power was off. But if I was really worried about something like this I would have a backup radio that was in something that provided some RF shielding just in case....

Putting electronics inside a black plastic garbage bag, would that be enough of an insulator inside a metal garbage can?

@CatHound

8 ай бұрын

I wouldn't trust it. Use cardboard

Would old microwave ovens work as a storage option?

@Raised-Right

Жыл бұрын

That or an old deep freezer? Iine the inside with card board and rubber roofing material.

GPS is a communication device. I am a sailor. How would you like to be at sea and lose all GPS? How good are you with a sextant and do you have al the data tables? And do have a non-electronic chronometer on board? What I worry about most is a powerful solar flare, because it will take out satellites, power plants, everything.

@lepidoptera9337

2 жыл бұрын

Those satellites are hardened against solar flares. Not sure what you need a power plant for while you are at sea, either. ;-)

@stevenhs8821

2 жыл бұрын

@@lepidoptera9337 The experts don't seem to agree with your opinion that satellites are invulnerable to solar storms.

@lepidoptera9337

2 жыл бұрын

@@stevenhs8821 And by experts you mean bullshit that you have heard on the internet? :-)

@JoeMicalizziMPC

Жыл бұрын

@@stevenhs8821 Everything has a limit of whatever protection is necessary. You plan for the worst and hope for the best!

Jack, whate about your antanae leads to your equipment???

@HamHomestead

5 жыл бұрын

They will surely induce voltage across them so if they are connected to radio equipment that would be no bueno!

You've got it half way, right, But there is a lot more. If it does occur, And is an apocalyptic nature, Then you have to understand that all the bad guys are gonna be having radios out there too. And they're going to be working in operations to acquire all the things, they need from everybody else so monitoring all your channels is very wise. That way if you're in survival mode you will know what your enemies are up to. There are also officials, but it's gonna be mostly the bad guyes yes you have to understand. Under those conditions people will band together in groups and they have no good intentions whatsoever; They just figure they just take everything they need from everybody else. But we need to let them know that we too, are well armed and will definitely defend ourselves even against them, So if they are not government, I mean or official assistance, do not Trust anyone, until you are Sure. They really shouldn't be out there, If you find somebody roaming around they are surely hunting for supplies, So be wise; And for the best part all of your radio equipment should be long range For monitoring all communications. That way somebody's not right on top of you when you're finally Become aware that they're there, Impossibly attack you. You should have scanners for all the frequencies that are commonly used. Survival is not a game it is a very serious warfare issue, And the sad part is when it really gets into it for about a year after an apocalyptic issue, Survival becomes less and less likely for most people. So if you? Are going. To survive? In the mountains. And things like that you better have a really good set of crack shot the marksman experts to keep your periferral areas projected, And anyways that? Lead. Up to your stronghold. It's a faraday cage, It is constructed properly. It will definitely do the job of protecting your equipment from almost any e m p energy but it has to be built correctly. For a Ferrari cage to function it has to have an inner shielded area a dialectic separation between the inner and the outer shell and a fully shielded outer. Shell and possibly grounded to the earth, Is that I say is important, Your cage must be grounded to the earth just as you would ground an electrical system, Or it will not give you 100% protection.

I wonder if solar PV would survive a EMP ?

@HamHomestead

5 жыл бұрын

I have read so much conflicting information on it I dont think I could say one way or the other. I would lean towards no, especially as large as the panels are getting, that is a lot of surface area of conductive material that would most likely induce a lot of voltage across it. At the very least the diodes and regulators are toast.

@davidmicheletti6292

5 жыл бұрын

Ham Homestead I would have to agree but maybe there is something I’m not seeing in this type of solar PV.

@dougwilson8274

4 жыл бұрын

Large panels over 200 watts always include diodes to prevent back flow of current when parts of panel are shaded. Those would "burn out" by the E1 pulse and reduce the effectiveness of the panel. The panel would still function but at reduced capacity. The main part that "dies" is the SOLAR CHARGE CONTROLLER. This part sends the power from your solar panels to your batteries or grid tied to the rest of the world.

Try setting that metal can on a concrete floor instead of a wooden (insulating) floor. Do your tests. Then set metal can on the ground outside and do your tests. Fun fact for everyone: Those NiMH rechargeable batteries we all love have electronics in them. Might be a good idea to emp-proof those batteries too. Regular and Alkaline batteries seem to be immune to emp. Lots of jokes about tin foil hats. Makes one wonder about that lol.

@crazysquirrel9425

Жыл бұрын

PS take device place on concrete floor. Invert trash can onto the device, test again. Something as simple as that might be useful.

Metal trash cans work ok for radio gear. But its protecting the power sources, whether from solar arrays or a generator that is not so easy. Their size, weight& bulk is not suitable for a trash can unless very very low power. And the batteries used in a battery bank will be zapped very easily....the becm controllers in them in particular.

How about ice chest

@lepidoptera9337

2 жыл бұрын

If it is metal all the way round and you tape of solder the seams, it should be fine. You will need to tape the lid, though.

Not non-scientific. Good controls, easily decipherable results. Positive actions can be taken as a result. The only change, IMHO, would be to have used Dubstep music. They're heavy into garbage can drums. Thanks...

I talked at length with an electrical engineer about EMP and your testing proves what he said. As he said you are dealing with frequencies from DC to 100 meg. But most of the power will be down low in the DC to about 50 meg range. Solar panels are a large solid state device and most likely to die from a EMP.

@billwelch9431

Жыл бұрын

Wow, solar panels. Something else I hadn't thought of. Due to size, hard to shield those. :(

wish you had given just a summary, numbers dont mean anything to average person

@HamHomestead

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe I should do a follow up like that. Good idea.

Did anyone learn what they need to know? NO.. is the trash can good or not!

3rd

but nobody has the idea of taking a simple fucking tool case from aluminium. anyhow. uhm just another point what would make sense by looking at temperature. like what makes more sense if your in a nuclear zone and will i survive anyhow if im in a zone where the case does his job or doesn`t melt away anyway? or should my blast of shadow hide his phones in an iron case accept for an alucase?

@lepidoptera9337

2 жыл бұрын

Depends on the construction of your tool case. The main requirement is that there are no seams in the metal. Most tool cases are constructed from several pieces of metal, which makes them into active antenna structures. Aluminum is hard to weld, zinc plated sheet metal, on the other hand, can be soldered easily. The seams of a trash can can be soldered with a small torch in twenty minutes or less (depends on how good you are with a torch). If you tape the lid on with HVAC aluminum tape, the best EMP weapon in the world can't harm your electronics. But if you are talking about actual survival... if you want to survive the 100psi of a nuclear blast a few miles from you, then you need a bunker with six foot thick concrete walls. If you are not in the blast zone but merely want to survive the fallout, then you have to spend at least a week under five feet of compacted dirt, but a month would be much better. And after that it depends on whether there is a nuclear winter or not. If there is, then you will need roughly ten years of food supply for yourself and your family and you will have to defend it against hungry people with guns... so at this point you are basically talking about building a fortress with several hundred other people who don't mind using machine guns against crowds and who know how to get their hands on anti-tank weapons. And if you survive all of that, then your kids, grandkids and their kids and grandkids are looking at 100-150 years of reconstruction (assuming that you have farmland, working farming equipment that you can maintain for decades and tens of tons of seeds of the kind that produces actually viable seeds itself, so none of the modern hybrid varieties that you can buy will do, you will need a special supply of old varieties). So, yeah... that aluminum tool case is a really great idea. ;-)

So, a trash can does not work. OK...Thanks

Idk what the government pays you but this doesnt work at all. At least not with the can i got (exact same can)

You need to get to the point ALOT faster

Hello from Boise! My name is Rand, W7UDT. I just came across your channel. I dug deep to find your call sign in hopes to find where your QTH is in Eastern Oregon, but all I saw was a blurry Whisky something. I was in the mining industry for three plus decades, and love the history. Besides QRP, a Harley, Jeep, two dogs and a XYL, I love to fish. I was hoping to get your ideas on radio, and the like, maybe talk about mining…. I enjoyed the video, subscribed, and starting to watch your mining videos. Can I get your call? de W7UDT (dit dit)