I was in transference neurosis for the larger part of my 10 years with a psychoanalyst - yet, I was seen once a week, face-to-face. There was a brief period when I came in twice a week, but always in the chair. I had intense loving and erotic feelings mixed with hostility for the first two years. Then a positive, loving transference evolved and we had a great working alliance until the end when my transference transformed into gratitude and my desire shifted to my life outside of therapy. I attribute the development of transference neurosis to my personal characteristics and history and to my therapist's skill. He helped me go there, helped me stay with it and through it and then helped me to emerge from it a much changed person. He was a seasoned analyst doing psychoanalytic therapy with me, complete with interpretation of transference, phantasy and dreams. What a ride it was!

@doncarveth

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent. Yes, this can happen even once per week face-to-face, and sometimes it does not happen at five times per week lying on the couch. But I think that the coach and greater frequency makes it more likely.

@spiral_heart8239

2 жыл бұрын

This also happened to me. Except we do six times a month and part of our therapy has been face to face zoom calls during the pandemic. I think I unconsciously wound up proving her into hating me really intensely at one point. But we have most recently discussed the love in the therapy, and that was one of the most healing and helpful conversations of my life.

@doncarveth

2 жыл бұрын

@@spiral_heart8239 very good

Comprehensive and informative in a short talk. Wonderful 👏 Thanks a lot..

Really helpful, clarified a lot of blurred questions...thank you!

Thank you! Beyond the stellar presentation of very important ideas, I appreciate you (as a wise elder in our community) modeling, "I used to think THIS ... and now I've come to think THAT." I am inspired by the constant stance of willingness you display in your videos and podcasts to think through / evaluate and re-evaluate your stance on a variety of matters in this field. From where I sit, far too many elders get locked into "It must be THIS, and only THIS." Which seems to only lead to intellectual internecine war.

@doncarveth

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much, this comment means a lot to me.

@timwarneka5681

2 жыл бұрын

@@doncarveth You are very welcome, sir. I listen & re-listen to your podcasts as I walk my dog at night. I am deeply grateful for the opportunity to learn from you.

This video is incredible, insightful, and making me reflect so deeply on recent therapy adventures. Just discovered your podcast too. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom.

@doncarveth

2 жыл бұрын

You are most welcome, thank you.

Thank you for the clarity. I have never experienced transference neurosis with my therapists (both certified analysts, but with whom I had psychoanalytic psychotherapy, I now believe). As someone who is considering training and not sure about whether to get into the more intensive psychoanalytic training, or keep to the psychoanalytic psychotherapy training, this has been useful. I found your comment on the analysts reluctance to evoke transference neurosis extremely thought provoking. Whether as teacher or as novice 'counselor', I've been aware of how I subtly discourage intense transferences (much like I myself don't traffic in them as student or patient). Much to talk about with my supervisor now. 😊 Will be reading Bryan Bird and Greenson. Thank you, again.

@doncarveth

2 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful. Just as we may be mistaken to discourage transference neurosis, some analysts have been too eager to encourage it and exploit it in various ways. Complicated matter.

Watching this 22 minute video was really time well spent. Thank you for making me reflect more deeply on the analytic process. One thought I had in response was that it may not always be the intensity of the transference neurosis that scares off analysts. Much more disturbing is discovering that the patient is actually 'pre-Oedipal' and experiences the transference without the "as-if" quality of 'structuralized' patients. Even if you realize that particular patient was not a good candidate for analysis, it's hard to shake the memory of the whole misbegotten affair.

@doncarveth

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, certainly, what you hoped it would be a transference neurosis sometimes turns out to be a transference psychosis. Instead of work in the depressive position one finds oneself in the paranoid schizo aid position. But sometimes progress can be made in that field as well… Sometimes.

Dr. Carveth, could you talk about the perils of Zoom therapy? I heard therapists say that they had to shift to mostly couple work because they've been finding video sessions with individual patients exactly the way you described - too reasonable, feeling like a polite exchange of information. With couples transference is always alive within the couple and transference interpretation seems to be more useful and consequential. In addition, video format plays right into the resistance and cements it.

@doncarveth

2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn’t have much to add to what you say here, which seems accurate to me. But why did those therapists not simply go to the phone?

@gamayun1224

2 жыл бұрын

@@doncarveth Perhaps they have been disappointed in "remote" therapy - most have never done it prior to the lockdowns. They lack faith that switching from video to phone will work much better. Thank you for responding to my comments.

Thanks, very thought provoking, especially your thoughts about getting to the hate. In my work I certainly got to the Hate in the majority of cases. What I want to hear more about are your thoughts on Winnicott’s notion of hating Objectively, as opposed to Subjectively….Winnicott helped me to see that with the ordinary devotion of analytic attention one is conveying Love to the patient, but with the “It’s time to stop now,” one is conveying the Hate.

@doncarveth

Жыл бұрын

Yes, but objective heat is the heat that most analysts would feel toward a hateful patient. Not that the patient’s heat is being project to the identified into the analyst, although that certainly happens. No, it is the fact that the patient is objectively hateful and any average analyst would see this and feel it. Certain patients are objectively seductive and most analysts would feel that about them. Not all of my heat comes from my Unresolved issues; some of it is it natural response to the patient’s character and behavior.

@davidnjohn

Жыл бұрын

@@doncarveth Okay. So Objective Hate is the response of The Other in Winnicotts notion of Otherness, and the Subjective Hate is the Identification part of the patient’s Projection of Hate into the Analyst…?

@doncarveth

Жыл бұрын

@@davidnjohn no, I’ve always understood the subjective counter transference as stemming from the analysts personal conflicts and unresolved issues.

@davidnjohn

Жыл бұрын

@@doncarveth Sure, but it is activated by the patient’s projected material, it’s not simply the analysts subjectivity in isolation….

@davidnjohn

Жыл бұрын

It’s dialectics

This reminds me of the position that Otto Kernberg takes up, in his transference-focused psychotherapy, for severe personality disorders. The transference seems to be the way to cure the patient…

@doncarveth

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, but auto dispensers with the coach for some reason, I do not.

@JoshBarzell

2 жыл бұрын

@@doncarveth Yea, I could see Otto doing that. Face to face is more confrontational. I don’t know Otto, but I could see how face to face is better suited to him to confront the patient on the transference. It’s the difference between doing psychoanalysis as more like a pragmatic business-type meeting…

@doncarveth

2 жыл бұрын

@@JoshBarzell And his method is for work with borderlines. With neurotics he advocates the traditional approach using the couch.

@JoshBarzell

2 жыл бұрын

@@doncarveth I just had a thought about your use of the word “OK.” I wonder that if you would be told “OK,” by someone else, at the end of your lecture, it might open things up for you a little bit.

@doncarveth

2 жыл бұрын

@@JoshBarzell What makes you feel things need to be opened up for me a little bit?

The seat of my neurosis , once I thought id dealt with it for good but it looms again . I need to listen to again , despite very real problems post accident arm injury , vision problems ( can't drive gifted car ) etc that delimit my capacity to find work I am often stuck in this free floating yet denied fear of the need to try to get out there ! A fear I had trul;y overcome in my thirties living out of bedsits in London whilst doing group work and a social work diploma. So WE MUST venture out again into the unknown ! The grip of neurosis ? for me means cycling off again in a moment but also impossibility of coping alone or the poverty trap acceptance versus the descent into victim mode that for me typifies the old unregenerate boyhood my infantile locked in neurosis , as S J says "feel the fear and do it anyway" entrenched denied neurosis , the small boy who didn't want to go to school but wanted the Mother , who was going to work , who was slapped for inadvertently touching her leg , who neverreally got the dried up breast ,who even blamed himself , or later became the scapegoat and was froom birth quickly was placed in a cot away from her, to become frantically jaundiced yellow ( constricted , self deforming ?) all of this potentially "toxic" stuff , repressed anger ( congealed hatred) MUST , I repeat MUST somehow safely come to the surface and be contained ! This is what you mean, i think ? This is the major role of the analyst , to care---- fully very skilfully bring this to the surface to unpick it real time ? So Thank you Don , a rational light amidst the dim confused masses , where I am at is that the ego formation itself is "unstable" it is a deviation from (purer sense of) being you alluded to some videos ago . Virtual work is useful BUT the transference of the very thing which allows us to sense -feel the problem is missing, or the intuitive sense is dulled , the real connection IS lost , the real time "fleshly" encounter is necessary for real deep and lasting )change to occur the very nature of the post Kleinian (object self ) means will do anything to own up to our tragic need to instantly project out this toxic bad breast ! This other who is no good rather than look at the no -good or the broken or the fragmented frustrated little child , adapted child ruling the whole show the very thing which must be skilfully and carefully exposed ! Neurosis then becomes collectively ratified ? The issue seems to me for all of us , we do NOT want to see this , the other can literally be demonized with disastrous consequences , it can't possibly be me, can it ? The cult of the priesthood is classic , the hierarchical of those who would define how we are to live , otherwise we are to be excluded or attacked ala the workers socialist party became the Nazi party which then needed the Jews to become the receptacle for their shadow ! Thus, the neurosis itself isn't acceptable , it is projected out onto .......? The other or others When this happens it is either fight or flight on a knife edge either react or with the help of the Analysts' alpha function hold it , hold onto it and see deeply into it , why did I do this , why do I do this , what am I trying to prove , why can't I let go , ( be open) respond because this other ( analyst therapist ) IS trying to help me ! But no this ego defensive neurotic ( potentially psychotic , archaic self ) quickly re-establishes itself again and off we go subtly destroying that which we need , the relationship! So yes, will listen to again . Beautifully put the transference neurosis is a " echo of the original infantile neurosis , Oedipus complex " ,I'll die if ...the child terror, the child reaction to ... ? Oedipal ___ Pre-Oedipal here is the risk for us all , the pure overwhelmed child is this allowed, keeping it here at this level , this deeper level . Yes you finger on the pulse again the hatred is projected out , the analyst is then in denial , re Freud's treatment of women because of his relationship with his Mother and Father his denial of his abuse of women perse. Thus, he avoided being analysed , he rebutted Jung's claim he did not want to disavow his omnipotent child , he was deluded to this degree despite his contribution and his whole work is shot through with this problem ie 2 D dream theory etc . Freud might say such emotional transference which needs unpicking is a sign of hysteria , in the therapeutic relationship is a sign of hysteria, the pyscho-pathology of the other , lose it , no not me ! Freud might say . But this then IS a good ( necessary )sign! Jesus " I have come to bring fire on earth " It is so to speak the cliff's edge that must be brought into vview , deep structural change IS absolutely necessary , but your understanding is so much more mature and evolved than mine . SO YES the transference neurosis MUST emerge and MUST be worked through for ANY lasting change to occur ! This is quintessentially the nature of depth work it is changing the deep reactive habit by allowing and seeing into it as it emerges ( real time in an encounter) to take over the self , in what collectively might seem an unreasonable , irrational way ! I migth add many anaalysts do NOT possess this level of maturity and unshockability to stay with it , they often retreat in quasi- labelling" superiorist expert " mode and so disempower the patient , client or other ! The whole thing just goes on and on , with the cliché that will be another £60 , if that doesn't make one f..mad what will ? Collective unconscious - neurosis is tribal in origin ? Men have a very particular problem and it is where we are at a very basic level ....collectively denied neurosis , projected out as the others when it is also our own we MUST work through especially in men , male macho warrior culture , where fear is a sign of weakness or being unacceptable as an adult ie rights of passion tribal ceremonies , those who opted out were not even allowed to breed they were seen as effeminate as no good , so here we have the root or tap root of neurosis , the very cruel circumcision ceremony or the hideous cltierectomy or other such things designed to keep the elders in power at all cost ! Because generally they had not worked with let alone through their own deep neurosis ?

@doncarveth

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Richard

@richardprice9730

2 жыл бұрын

@@doncarveth thank-you, but am still partly confused here ,i see the neurosis in its most raw and extreme form as imbeded in much earlier pre Oedipal internalised movement,that is often the sadistic or hate filled desire congealed anger -frustration that is indicative of the earliest somatic defense, perhaps you don't call this neurotic ,but for me it seems to be the epicentre of our deepest fears,abandonment or as adults any and all other things that might make us feel unwantedand unloved ,unattractive ,and re evoke the terrible sense of abandonment of not being ok, so how ,of what do i do ,as Laing put it in this utterly paradoxical or the catch 22 situation whatever i do doesnt seem to work ! This in turn can be so easily re-evoked and amplified by erotic component .My confusion lies here . Here as you say us the danger ,we need an enhanced capacity for reflection but the emotionally laden transference threatness to ruin it all ?But i do feel what you are saying about the need to work it through. The need to unpack snd correctly identify the neurosis no matter the form it takes as perhaps the central dilemma bothe for the analyst and obviously the patient who must somehow bothe allow ,contain and look more deeply into it no matter the form it takes ,with of course as Bion might say the alpha function of the analyst a huge task and one most analysts fight shy of .

@doncarveth

2 жыл бұрын

@@richardprice9730 The transference neurosis is characteristic of those who have attend and operate mostly in the depressive position. People operating more in the paranoid schizoid position produce something closer to a transference psychosis. Traditional psychoanalysis taking place in the analysts private practice generally requires patience to be neurotic, not borderline or psychotic. To work with a transfer and psychosis may require a hospital appointment, medication’s, etc.

@doncarveth

2 жыл бұрын

Oh I agree that every Oedipal level neurosis is influenced to some degree by pre-Oedipal factors, But when such factors have prevented sufficient advance into the depressive position we are dealing with a substantially different situation.

@richardprice9730

2 жыл бұрын

@@doncarveth Thanks Don am a little clearer , if I might seek more fleshing out of this . To use my own analysis as an example , I would going up the stairs to see the very beautiful well-dressed and highly skilled analyst be anxious , often go to the loo first and the open the door to sit opposite her in silence such acute in the moment silence and palpable living-awareness presence just me in a room inches away from this beautifull creature , all dressed in black , you could feel the excitement - tension and lingering anxiety wow .. a cosmic encounter ! Me she remarked once like an akward teenager .. I guess she was used to alot of men hitting on her . I remember distinctly getting into arguments, resistance ?or turning up early to be told to go away ! angry transference - projections from my neurotic mothering stuck anger and she's saying something lie the anger being a problem we need to get passed it ,or I'd go away trying to analyse her or avoid my feelings completely by going into little intellectual professor serious boy mode . Is this coming from that deeper, potentially psychotic part . It seems the very thing we do NOT want to see we need to see but cannot because at all cost we don't want to ( classic ND position ?) , I would also refuse without saying to go on the couch ie it would take me ages ,and she say i seee you haven't gone to lie on the couch yet ? Loosing site of the Mother ( breast ) , but years later it still helps me sleep, still gets me back in tthe cot taken by nurses away from Mum the dried up useless breast ? . Again feel stuck due to lack of funds for training and or analysis which is apart the reason it ended back then , together with vision and other arm hand problems post accidents . If you could take the time to answer, at the moment I am left with journaling , self-analysis and trying to catch dreamscapes before they evaporate . I do have days when I am more lucid , reflective calmer and able to move ahead but do feel very stuck which does I guess how that little baby felt back in its cot am I do this to myself or is it just happening , how can I or might i the best gain more insight ? The spiritual part of me tends to operate at another level from beyond the limitations even of consciousness itself often contradictory to the ego and doesn't fit that well at all with any conventional psychoanalytic , ego centred or more existential work may even be in somewhat opposition to it, I am not sure , ie my will or Your Will which typifies the life work of Jesus, but that is whole different area that perhaps we should leave for the minute.

Dear Dr. Carverth, Could you tell us a few words about the complex issue of feet fetishism (as a Disorder)? How therapy could help someone to eradicate it? Its a curse and it affects very negatively the sexuality and the personality. I have understood that a vertical split have occurred at a very early age (infancy). Please give us your knowlege on that subject! Thank you, Andreas Retsinas

@doncarveth

2 жыл бұрын

Best I can do is recommend Sergio Benvenuto, “what is perversion?”

@andreasretsinas2142

2 жыл бұрын

@@doncarveth Thank you very much!

Thank you for this stimulating topic. I am interested in understanding a dynamic with patients who reenact their oedipal experiences outside of the therapeutic situation/ not directly within the transference and that whether that is considered transference neurosis or is it a form of acting out? Thank you

@doncarveth

2 жыл бұрын

That is most likely Word for Word called “resistance to transference“: exporting the edible dynamics out words rather than working them through with the analyst. Not that nothing can be gained by analyzing what is going on outside, that’s such work lacks the immediacy and intensity of work on the transference neurosis with the analyst.

Dr. Carveth, I was wondering if you are able to do consultations in the US?

@doncarveth

27 күн бұрын

Yes. dcarveth@gmail.com

Prof . Carveth , iam a 4th year psychology undergraduate, and i want to make my degree equivalent in canada and to study a phd in canada if couldn't get an acceptance from a university for a masters program from the beginning , do you know anything about this process ? any masters scholarships in canada ?

@doncarveth

4 ай бұрын

Sorry, I’ve been retired from the university for almost 10 years.

You’ve been thrice ?!!

@doncarveth

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I need to stay alive to make more videos!

Whats going on Don something very strange it seems ? In your ealier video I'm watching transf neurosis p2 you seem to be inferring the opposite and a marked fear of the sexual component ,you say things like getting over the transference as if you are in denial of what ?