'Speaking fluently on nonsense'. What a star. Go Helen, the voice of common sense.

As an Irish 🇮🇪 woman, I am SO PROUD OF HELEN and HER WORK for CHILDREN'S PROTECTION, HEALTH, SAFETY, and WOMEN'S RIGHTS. 💪 👏 ❤️

@philbirkin4777

3 ай бұрын

Why does you being an Irish woman matter at all here?

I am a parent of a gay boy caught up in this and I spoke to Helen for her book. My son is not a woman he is text book gay, subjected to homophobic bullying and then trans propaganda at school. We still have a close relationship and he knows I disagree with him medicalising, as does his Dad. I still hope he will find his tribe and leave this behind but, in the meantime, he has my love.

@flowerchild8450

Жыл бұрын

If your child ever abandons you at some point in their life and no longer returns your text messages, you need only refer to this comment (and likely your many other hateful comments) to understand why.

@violetvicky1970

Жыл бұрын

@@flowerchild8450 What a foolish and unpleasant thing to say. I'm assuming you must be young and that excuses you somewhat, but not entirely. A mother protecting her child is never hateful.

@flowerchild8450

Жыл бұрын

@@violetvicky1970 how is she “protecting” her child? She’s literally doing the opposite, commenting positively on a video featuring a woman whose stated goal/wish is for trans people to not exist. What is wrong with you, honestly?

@jananilcolonoscopu4034

Жыл бұрын

Keep on fighting Tish, it's gotta be done

@colmmadden8526

Жыл бұрын

@@flowerchild8450 What is hateful in this parent's comment?

I have been uncomfortable with the tension between trying to be open minded and feeling there was something really wrong going on around this topic. Many thanks to Helen Joyce for taking a sane and compassionate deep dive into the subject.

@opinion3742

Жыл бұрын

@@kdhartbooks Criticizing someone's argument is not an attempt to silence them. And pointing out how dangerous their rhetoric is is not an attack on free speech. Transphobia kills.

@opinion3742

Жыл бұрын

Sounds to me like Helen Joyce has got you by the proverbial balls. Keep that open mind and do some more research. The darkness surrounding the topic of transgenderism has everything to do with a reactionary moral panic rooted in ignorance and bigotry. Who exactly is it do you think is emboldened by a argument that gives justification for treating a vulnerable group with scorn and contempt? And how do you see this not affecting the human family as a whole?

@opinion3742

Жыл бұрын

@@kdhartbooks This is an interesting question because there is clearly a problem here in how the term is understood. Both Joyce and Stock have been called transphobic. And I agree that they are. And while I fully appreciate that using the term to describe a person and not a comment seems to do nothing but bar conversation it would absurd to ignore the fact that a movement to deny transgendered people their right to exist is a fact of monumental significance. This is not a matter of opposing opinions on some kind of level playing field. Of course one can say something transphobic without being a transphobe. So, given all that, and with respect, how would you answer your question?

@opinion3742

Жыл бұрын

@@kdhartbooks Thank you for your reply. I'm very tied up at the moment but I will give you a proper thought out reply dealing with all the points you make as soon as I can. I should be getting used to the need for carefully worded answers by now but a general cynicism often holds me back and this isn't something I planned for my life, even though this cause is something I have grown more and more passionate about over time. And I am concerned that there are some very worrying trends at the moment and the internet is awash with well funded misinformation, exaggerated fears that form a new moral panic. And it is this latter point that especially concerns me because playing on people's fears is the easiest way to lead people in worrying and dangerous directions. It is impossible to play down the value of effective advertising. For now it would be good to remember that we are ultimately talking about a real community of people's right to exist. The ground they have won has been hard fought. And we know what precedence this has in history. And being an acceptable part of our social unit should be the least anyone can expect from a civilized people. The fears are a moral panic and are constantly being exaggerated or downright lied about. I have to say, and I don't mean this as a dig in anyway, that because there is such a wealth of intelligently laid out arguments on the side of the transgender community on the internet already - much better and more thorough than anything I can manage - that I am surprised to hear that anyone saying that they have done their research still holding to those same concerns that are being pushed by reactionary extremists. I have obviously said more here than I initially intended to. If we can settle the question as to whether being trans is a reality or not we will have a jumping off place for real understanding. We cater in law and in other ways for all people. Let's not decide at least that they should be treated as a special case - especially if in reality nothing they do by existing actually warrants such a concern.

@opinion3742

Жыл бұрын

@@kdhartbooks I have read over your comments again very carefully and this time I am more concerned that you are simply denying the trans community their existence altogether. This action not only treats with brutal carelessness a people's right to exist by making "concerned" excuses for doing it but dehumanizes them and turns them into an actual, if abstract, threat. And it is because you have ticked all the talking point boxes here that I am concerned that I am wasting my time. Prisons are brutal institutions that we should be concerned about for a host of reasons. Clearly we can do better if we find the will. Not a valid reason to deny the trans community its right to exist. Apart from the need to take every care where children are concerned it would be wrong - and hypocritical - to deny trans children the urgent care they need. And hopefully care will improve so that mistakes can be avoided. The medical establishment is far from perfect. And again the reality of trans children only argues in favour of improving care not getting rid of it by denying the trans community its right to exist. It is not up to any other community - like lesbians - to decide for any individual how they should identify. Feminists throughout history have unfortunately never been fully inclusive. It is a vast field of study and action and it is pretty much a minority that opposes transgenderism now. And most of the women groups making a noise about this are not feminists but defend a more patriarchal definition of what constitutes womanhood. Posey Parker being the great example of out spoken women here. Most worrying to me is your attempt here to deny specifically trans women the right to be called women by seeking biological differences yourself - limited that is to specifics of biology (ie not including chromosomal and hormonal differences) - or to include intersex people - because this is a straight up denial. Biology does exist and it matters but no one is reducible to it. This is all about our human experience. And the claim that the very existence of trans women is inherently misogynistic is both absurd and seriously transphobic. What you are calling "real world consequences" is a skewed and abstract picture that has, like it or not, an agenda. And though you may not intend it you have certainly absorbed and regurgitated it here. And let's be clear, "transphobe" is not a nasty name - it is an accurate description of someone who denies trans identity, especially as a human right. How we deal with problems that arise from the presence or existence of any group of people is something we should talk about. But we cannot do that in a meaningful way all the time their right to exist is in question. And all the time that is an issue we are inviting the most unwholesome and unsavory people to manipulate data, spread blatant misinformation, use fear tactics and moral panic, to muddy the waters, stir bigotry and hate, and create a scapegoat.

Helen's comment about Matt Walsh at 37:43 is one of the most articulate insults I've ever heard in my entire life. 💀

26:41 - 27:14 Those who control the meaning and the use of words, control the discourse.

@squatch545

Жыл бұрын

Which is why we need to stop letting Joyce controlling the discourse.

@jeffersonianideal

Жыл бұрын

@@squatch545 I like your comment, although I suspect that Ms. Joyce is more capable of being the consummate control freak than she was during the podcast.

About a week ago I was trying to explain to my 17 year old son how men are stronger than women after puberty. I'm a 38 year old woman who is stronger than I look. I'm only about 5'3" but I have a good amount of muscle mass and have what's called "fast twitch muscle fibers" which helps me gain muscle quickly. To illustrate this point we decided to arm wrestle. I held my own for quite a while against him, but he defeated me within 1 minute. (It hurt my shoulder for about an hour afterwards, but now a week later I'm perfectly fine). He was fully convinced that due to my older age I was stronger. He was fully convinced that there are no differences between men and women. This kid doesn't have much muscle on him, just standard couch potato young man muscle, he doesn't work out at all or anything like that. I work out and I struggled against him. Arm wrestling my youngest son, (9) is a completely different story. It's like battling a feather against my 9 year old. There's very huge differences between male and female. I think he (my 17 year old) understood my point after that.

@LoveYourself-my9nz

4 ай бұрын

I think he misunderstood when people say men and women are not different. Because when we say men and women are not different we are talking about them as a person and human beings not on biological differences. Actually it's used for the people who think women are inferior and deserve less rights because of that or the people who have male child preference because having a girl child is seen as a bad thing. It's actually a short quote, the full one is more of like " Even though we have some differences because of our sex it doesn't mean we are inferior to each other and deserve equal rights and get treated equally". Because there are some conservative people out there who say women are not equal and that's why they should only be a housewife and belong in the kitchen. When you ask them how women are different then any men they gonna say this strong thing but that's just for show because the more you listen to them the more you realize they have Thai misogyny where they think women are like less of a man ( not any biological terms).

I'm a gay man (out for nearly 60 years) and an atheist (for 30 years.) Thank you for your rational and compassionate thoughts and conversation.

@gennasommers8485

Жыл бұрын

Where are the voices of gay men and lesbians on this subject? They are needed❤️

@SkeletonModel91

Жыл бұрын

@@gennasommers8485 Very strange time for LGB people, because the T is so narcissistic and militant.

@marisarositol9233

Жыл бұрын

@@gennasommers8485 lesbian here. Just how has a trans person affected your life? By existing. Check the DSM-5. This is a legitimate mental condition, and transition is the recomended treatment. In this video, they mentioned trans racial. I thought they were going to ridicule the ridiculousness of that post. There is plenty of division in the lgbt population. We don't need anymore. Thanks, but no thanks. This lady starts off saying that people can't change their sex. Such an appeal to ignorance. Transition happens as their biological sex doesn't align with their gender. She laughed off the Term TERF. Nice try.

@felixmidas3245

Жыл бұрын

60 years? That's quite impressive. Congratulations.

@DFMoray

Жыл бұрын

Cool story bro.

Thank u 4 featuring Helen Joyce, my new Super Hero. She is the beating voice of sanity amongst the current noise of insanity.

I’ve been suffocating and this was a 2-hr deep breath of fresh air. Thank you.

@evenodds8791

Жыл бұрын

That’s sleep apnea, get a cpap it’s very dangerous

I am so in love with this woman! The relief to hear sense being spoken!!!! Xox

@orlamcmanus9019

Жыл бұрын

Shes so respectful intelligent and resilient. I love listening to her

@mayhu3282

Жыл бұрын

Read her book if you haven't, it's great too!

I WAS a high school teacher and I saw this transition from kids with autism, asperger's, body image issues, low self esteem, and BPD with self harm and ideation. I also saw the brigades of helicopter parents grow in ranks and force who wanted to do all they could for their kids for better and much worse. Each year since 2014 I saw kids who were much more child like and not in touch or in tune with sexuality. We had a few kids come out as LGB but dozens each year were changing pronouns and names. It was mostly girls saying they were trans. They were very into anime manga and tumblr and those who did not come out as trans were the most vocal about making us all exist in their fantasyland. Older people are completely unaware of the real depths of gamer culture, streamer porn, soft porn, and to what degree they are direct and indirect influencers. These people are in a constant fantasy drama with hyper outrage syndrome, dehumanization, lack of empathy or consequence. EDUCATION should take a lot of blame. It went from this idea of student driven education, followed by pushing the idea of inclusion without concern for the need for boundaries and discipline. If you do not have facts and knowledge how do you know which way to drive your project? By last year everything had to include trans or race and with it came a lot of cyberbullying from kids you would think are sweet bright kids face to face. The media needs to be called out big time because they are pushing it hard than ever. WHY? is it really inclusion? Or an easy marketing plan to use rainbows?? Or is there a long game of desensitizing people from their bodies making it less of a jump to transhumanism. We can look forward to when we all exist in our cyber fantasy mind, without the need for the flesh shell. scary and with that in mind, maybe the pronouns are more problematic than would appear since it perpetuates the escapism.

@ppm4eva

Жыл бұрын

Lor Grigaliunas, thank you for that very informative and articulate post. I think you have hit the nail firmly on the head.

@solaris6070

Жыл бұрын

Yep. It's one step in making the world of transhumanism more sellable.

@globalist1990

Жыл бұрын

Meanwhile these kids won’t have kids and the same old, same old families will thrive from their ashes… 🤷‍♂️ It’s so common for the most rebellious in their youth to cave in to conservative family values. Literally the prodigal son. Ask the doctors making sex reassignment surgeries how many of their kids are trans. ✌️

@meganbaker9116

Жыл бұрын

Student driven education? In public school? Ha ha ha!

@memoryhero

Жыл бұрын

The true cluelessness amongst those above a certain age about how the new online community spaces are fueling the constant fantasy aspect of this is THE biggest elephant in the room. Older people simply do not grasp how differently the young now socialize. Millenia-old practices overturned and replaced in a decade, and not even by social architects but by tech nerds high on red bull and four hours sleep.

Joyce's fallacy of the beard is going straight in my toolkit. Also: the way she so roundly rails Matt Walsh is refreshing AF. Far too few criticize others who've arrived at similar conclusions via shoddy reasoning. Joyce is laser focused, unrelenting, and seems at peace with letting reason roam.

@tomcotter4299

Жыл бұрын

Really? That was the one part of this interview that turned me off. I’m an atheist but I’ve consumed a lot of Matt Walsh’s work and find him to be one of the best exponents of social conservatism I’ve ever come across. Joyce’s dismissal of him was based on nothing but a caricature of his views, which only betrays her own ignorance.

@irelandlynn954

Жыл бұрын

@ Tom... you clearly haven’t consumed as much Matt Walsh as you think if you haven’t seen his misogynistic religious view points. He makes no secret of his staunch Catholicism & sexism. He’s been spewing it for years.

@adityaranjit9564

Жыл бұрын

@@tomcotter4299 While I haven’t consumed much of Matt Walsh’s material, I found his response to Professor Dave Explains to be quite shoddy and filled with logical fallacies. When Dave had taken the time to elucidate his views in a concise and systematic manner, it only seemed courteous of one to provide a counter in a manner which is befitting to the observations made by your opponent.

@tomcotter4299

Жыл бұрын

@@irelandlynn954 Please point to an example.

@tomcotter4299

Жыл бұрын

@@adityaranjit9564 I actually wrote a pretty long refutation of Professor Dave’s views on gender, which he never responded to, even though he had responded to several on my other comments. In a nutshell, my main criticism is that he declares gender to be a biological category without ever establishing the biological basis of gender. He points to some studies, but even those studies say gender is a totally subjective, non-biological category. So as far as I’m concerned, Walsh didn’t need to respond to Professor Dave at all, because Professor Dave didn’t say anything coherent about gender.

The emperor has no clothes, but you're not allowed to say it.

I was a leftist growing up most of my life until recently. I had the impression we where the most humanist and most rational and that somehow made us morally right. Then I started to look into things more skeptically after delving into the psychology of individuals and groups. Knowing very well how people can be manipulated by their own biases especially when you think those biases make you morally right critical thought needs to be applied evenly and I've seen so many of the social justice ilk trying to bypass that. I've seen the same rational being used as any extremist homophobic church and that disturbs me.

@marisarositol9233

Жыл бұрын

I was left growing up. Then saw the hypocrisy and shifted right. And then, I saw a bigoted, racist, homophobic cult. And now transphobic as well. So I shifted back. Neither party or side is free from hypocrisy, power, and corruption, or a lack of a good vision forward. But I'll take the side that isn't full of hate.

@andrewdominowski4631

Жыл бұрын

I was on a “lefty” comment section the other day. The topic was basically how annoying it is how religious folks attempt to force their ideology on others. My reply was “kinda like what trans folks do”. Holy crap you should have see the shot storm that ensued. Mental gymnastics aplenty.

@LunaticReason

Жыл бұрын

@@andrewdominowski4631 Unfortunately everyone has their own biases its just a matter of being able to manage them. I have a high trait openness which is why I lean left but I am also low on compassion so I tend to be critical and tell it as it is. These people play mental gymnastics because they live their lives following one belief because its easy just to agree with what they have been indoctrinated by. Its hard to change people like that you can only reach out to those whom maybe less so and hope their able to process. Which is hard because they use cult like tactics of isolation from the outside world. Only when they start cancelling or attacking one another that one side starts to be open to hearing us.

@andrewdominowski4631

Жыл бұрын

@@LunaticReason agree. See that’s the thing. While my comment was absolutely designed to disrupt their eco chamber, it wasn’t an indictment of either ideology. Simply pointing out that everyone (mostly) does it. When I pointed out how religious folks also do just about anything to justify their position, just like they do, things really got heated. I didn’t realize self awareness could actually be in the negative numbers. 🤷‍♂️ It’s ok Mother Nature will figure it all out

@melhawk1352

Жыл бұрын

Read 'The Madness of Crowds' by Douglas Murray - he totally breaks down what is going on on the left of politics and how totalitarian the social justice movement has become - people are afraid of saying the 'wrong' thing anymore - or reading the 'wrong' books, or liking the 'wrong' person, or, dare say it, having the 'wrong' thoughts! (for good reason, sometimes it could cost you your job...)

SOMEONE finally said it! I’ve been making the point for years, “When would you use a pronoun if you’re talking TO the person?”

@fromireland8663

Жыл бұрын

Me too!

@christopherlowenstein8971

Жыл бұрын

You is a pronoun btw

@brittlby4016

Жыл бұрын

@@christopherlowenstein8971 A second person pronoun, which I’m sure you know had no bearing on the current discussion which was in regards to third person pronouns, but couldn’t resist chiming in to be a pedantic limp dick. Disingenuous from the outset.

@fromireland8663

Жыл бұрын

@@christopherlowenstein8971 but not one that changes

@mayhu3282

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I wondered about too (third person pronouns of course).

Delighted to know some Skeptics are still skeptical, logical and rational! Helen Joyce is a joy to listen to. How can anyone not see the sense, logic and danger Gender Ideology poses to women, children, LGB and everyone’s rights and freedoms?

@roseknuckles9894

Жыл бұрын

God i have to wasts a hour of my life to find out what your talking about

@squatch545

Жыл бұрын

Skeptical about everything except anti-trans activists like Joyce.

@TBFI_Botswana

Жыл бұрын

wasts?

@baconsarny-geddon8298

Жыл бұрын

likeand ster ale femant irttaYeah, the number of self-appointed """skeptics""", who have embraced this ideology which shares a 100% identical standard of evidence with religion, is just nuts. "Jesus died for your sins", and "transwomen ARE women" are BmOTH beliefs that have ZERO e mpirical evidence, and BOTH accepted as "the REAL truth" by believers, SOLELY on the basis of "but it FEEEELS true to me". That braindead mantra of "transwomen ARE women" has been repeated so frequently, that people are starting to genuinely believe it... (esp kids, who trust adults, and are actively targetted by this ideology)... -But the one thing that an actual, evidence-based woman can NEVER, EVER become, is a "transwoman". -Definitionally, ONLY an (evidence-based) man can EVER become a "transwoman" -EVERY "transwoman" who has ever existed, has been an adult, human male (ie. "a MAN") -Believers in (sex-independant) "gender" object to defining "woman" as "adult human female". But they can't produce THEIR OWN definition, which isn't a circular mess ("a woman is anyone who ID's as a woman, is anyone who ID's as a woman..."), or a 50 paragraph essay. But there is NO POSSIBLE definition of "woman" that is non-circular, rational, and evidence-based, which includes "transwomen". -Similarly, there's NO POSSBLE (non-circular, evidence-based) definition of "man", which doesn't ALSO describe a "transwoman". I've always supprted gay rights (still do, obviously), and up til few years ago, for whatever reason I felt like that somehow obliged me to embrace the ideology of (evidence-free, "female soul in a man's body") "gender"... Until (1) saw the incredible real-world harm it does; Putting convicted male rapists in cells with women. Chemically sterilizing children. Males demanding sex from lesbians (and like the above rapists, getting support from so-called "feminists"). And (2) I realised this is an ideology SOLELY about demanding that falsehoods are accepted as "truth" (eg "transwomen ARE women"), in flagrant denal of all EVIDENCE... Anyone who cares about simple evidence-based truth (OR the welfare of children, OR the rights of women, OR gays/lesbians, who are the lastest groups whose rights to same-SEX attraction, not "same-GENDER attraction", are under assasult from trans ideology...) needs to oppose this mess.

@Apistevist

11 ай бұрын

Feels like we're in a dysgenic event.

Seeing someone like Shermer criticizing the woke is quite refreshing.

@lorrableu

Жыл бұрын

@@dimndcristo Agreed. Most problems we have are literally because people refuse to understand context or they are too afraid to point it out because that goes against the 1s and Os of the binary wars.

@toobnoobify

Жыл бұрын

Shermer built his career on defending science, it would be very strange for him to support trans activism.

@opinion3742

Жыл бұрын

@@kdhartbooks I certainly hope that Shermer receives all the right criticism and is held to account if he says something that can cause harm. Or would that count as an attack? But to be honest I don't think it takes guts to be transphobic. All that is required is being a bit of an ignorant knob.

@honeychurchgipsy6

4 ай бұрын

@@opinion3742 - What has he said that is transphobic? I think the point is that rights are not all or nothing - they are a negotiation - where your rights infringe on mine and vice versa - we must find a way to compromise. When a trans cyclist is told she is not allowed to compete at the highest levels against biological females, because she transitioned after puberty and the science is pretty strong that this gives her an advantage - we have an issue of her rights butting up against the rights of the biological females she wants to compete against. How do we deal with this? Do you think speaking of genocide, as she did, is helpful? This is not transphobia, and it is not an attempt at negating transpeople's existence, it is merely a desire for fairness.

@opinion3742

4 ай бұрын

@@honeychurchgipsy6 If only it were a simple matter of legitimate arguments arising from difficult to resolve situations. The problem is the use of such situations to ultimately push an agenda, or moral panic. One has to be careful how one assesses a person's intentions here, or how the wider public can be manipulated and confused by such arguments, and the effects thereof. Transphobia itself is a complex condition with varied expression.

A very interesting point is that the trans discussion always revolve around what is considered to be a woman. I am really curious why we never consider what it means to be a man/male?

@insignificantfool8592

Жыл бұрын

I think because women are treated as the sex worth fighting for. It seems wrong to let someone just choose to identify as a person with an oppressed status. That's also why I would say a white man identifying as a black man would be more objectionable than vice versa.

@franksmith417

Жыл бұрын

I think there needs to be a discussion. Just as one example I have heard FtMtF people say that being a trans man isn’t that great. Dating is more difficult for men, probably more so for trans men, especially if they are typically shorter than your typical male. Or maybe they thought they would have an easier time in the workforce and that didn’t play out. I think some men transition to women because of what society says a man is. You’re privileged, inherently racist and sexist, etc. Being a straight white man is pretty much the worst thing you can be in the liberal world. Not all men fit into some stereotypical mold. I wouldn’t know how to tell someone how to act like a man, because everyone is different. You can copy what you think a man is. But is that being yourself? How do you be yourself when you are pretending to be something that you’re not?

@blueberryimpala

3 ай бұрын

It is because trans identifying females aren't en masse taking over men's spaces, because they can't. They aren't winning awards in men's sports, because they don't have an advantage. They aren't threatening men's safety in prisons, locker rooms, crisis shelters, etc because they can't. They aren't pushing aside men in male specific healthcare, because they can't. They are still females, and they can't use higher social status and advantages of physical strength, size, athletic skills, or male pattern criminality or aggression to get their way. The more things change the more they stay the same. Men who identify as women are still men, and they interact with women the same ways they did before they transitioned. Same goes for women who identify as men.

I watched a video on lobotomy and how the Portuguese neurologist who invented the therapy even got a Nobel prize for his novel therapy in 1949! When it comes to the trans ideology I feel that we are witnessing something that is akin to the initial stages of the introduction of this preudo scientific therapy that was lobotomy. Once the avalanche of detransitioners seeking justice and compensation for their destroyed lives start filling law courts and the responsible institutions, physicians and especially pharmaceutical companies get to pay bankrupting law suits, then this fad will have run its course.

@Alnivol666

Жыл бұрын

Imagine thinking it is actually a good idea to mutilate people's healthy body parts and pumping them full of drugs on a regular basis. Yeah...this stuff will not age good.

@Zoomo2697

Жыл бұрын

“What is arbitrary is by definition tyrannical. It is based upon pure will, unguided by reason. Those who wish to base their freedom upon the supposed purposelessness of things, which obtains in the absence of Nature, should face the consequences of this view. What seems unmitigated freedom is, in fact, the foundation of tyranny.” ― Robert R. Reilly, Making Gay Okay: How Rationalizing Homosexual Behavior Is Changing Everything

@sarahmurphy-nf4yl

9 ай бұрын

Exactly 💯 but by then millio s of young peoples lives and bodies will have been multilated along with women's rights for personal spaces sports etc., BIG SHAME 😢 😭

@saistrology

8 ай бұрын

Follow the money....when it stars going down the drain with these lawsuits, so will the noise. Thank God.

I realize this is a year old but thank you both so much for this conversation and for articulating what bothers so many of us on the left. We do not want to be lumped in with the intolerant right wing but this new gender ideology fundamentalism is horrific. What I need to figure out is how we can remain compassionate allies of people who are different but still draw the line at swallowing bullshit unreality

@bogdiworksV2

4 ай бұрын

I know how you feel. I am and have always been as left as they come but this shitshow and CRT have been an insult to intelligence. The left needs to distance themselves from both if they have any sense of maturity and integrity. It's basically a bunch of irate children running the show with the adults sitting on the sidelines, terrified they'll be vilified on x and lose their jobs, because the corps support the chaos.

@honeychurchgipsy6

4 ай бұрын

@lisab9934 - I feel the same as you do. I want to respect people's rights to live a full life according to their born or chosen identity, sexual preference, religion (even though I'm an atheist), etc. etc. But I also see the need to protect women's rights and prevent children from making life changing decisions that they may not be fully capable of assessing. So, where do we go from here?

Helen, I follow you from one podcast to the next for a couple years now. My friend saw the spine of your book Trans and immediately thought it must be hateful just from seeing the word in bold print. It's been a very touchy non conversation. Off limits no matter how fairly I try to approach it.

@SkeletonModel91

Жыл бұрын

Your friend sounds like they need kind and loving psychiatric help if the dust jacket of a book is enough to offend them.

@carmenmfscmf

Жыл бұрын

@@SkeletonModel91 Maybe that person simply ‘enjoys’ being offended. I feel like many people like that irrational type of irrational bias of pre-judging as a way of thinking they’re always right, because many people seem to equal being occasionally wrong with being valueless.

@sarahmurphy-nf4yl

9 ай бұрын

WHY do you need PREMISSION to read any book you want..??!! 😱 Read the book and educate yourself about EVERYTHING. LEARN ALL SIDES OF THE STORY. Do NOT let your partner control your choice of book. If they have this control, it won't be long before they will control what and how much you eat, who your friends are and how you spend your money or joint money, and how you spend your time. PLEASE DONT BE THAT WEAK PERSON. STAND UP FOR YOURSELF.

Isn't it funny how you never see a trans male competing in male sports? Its always trans females competing in women's sports. At the Ivy League championship that Leah Thomas Yale had a trans man swimming on the team. Shouldn't he have been on the men's team ? I wonder why that is ? Maybe because he wouldn't be able to even make the team ? Ive literally seen more actual girls play on men's teams in school and they couldn't hang with the boys back then. Lets make trans males play with males and see how much they complain about that !!!! Ill bet they would say it isn't fair because the trans men cant compete against men because they are stronger and faster !!!!

@L_Martin

Жыл бұрын

Most of the females who ID as trans still compete in the women’s category! Because THEY know they stand no chance against actual men.

@sharifsalem

Жыл бұрын

You mean “trans identified female” and “trans identified male”. Male and female have definitions that are already taken.

@L_Martin

Жыл бұрын

@@sharifsalem your comment was censored, unfortunately.

@staninjapan07

Жыл бұрын

@@L_Martin How does one user determine that another user's comments have been censored? Thanks.

@L_Martin

Жыл бұрын

@@staninjapan07 Anyone commenting in the thread will get an alert when a new comment is added, however when a comment is being censored, you’ll only be able to see the comment in your inbox, it will not show in the thread, meaning no one else can see it. Stupid youtube 🙄

What a fantastic conversation! Thank you both for your backbone throughout the years.

Stonewall has made the trans movement a money-making industry. As a gay man, I find it really disturbing that a lot of lesbians are having sex reassignment treatment and surgery. Nearly 70% of young people that are being referred to gender reassignment centres are on the autism spectrum. Helen Joyce is one of a handful in the UK who are really brave and stands up to the internet and cancel culture. 95% of normal people feel the trans movement is wrong on many different levels. Great podcast.

@ginaritchie451

Жыл бұрын

"While autistic people are more likely to be non-heterosexual than the general population, the majority of autistic people are heterosexual" from the wiki article on autism and lgbtq+ identity. phillip, cisgender gay men are not an authority on lesbians nor trangender people so 'as a gay man' is redundant other than to remind us that cis male privilege exists within the pride community. it is why the Ls and the Ts have their own marches and events. your penultimate statement is so flawed. 95% is a made up number and when you say normal you mean common, or neurotypical and that would describe the group of humanity who are least educated on neuro divergence. there is correlation between lgbtq+ identity and neuro diversity which applies as much to gay men as other groups in the community. there is no conclusion on why but if there was it wouldnt be coming from a self appointed pride daddy. but as a transgender lesbian on the autistic spectrum what would i know. thank you. xxx

@mysteriousfleas

Жыл бұрын

That's because regardless of what social constructionists want to believe, but autism is effectively the hormonal and neurochemical masculinization of the brain. It doesn't mean the rare and actual females who have autism are men, it means they've been subject to aberrant developmental influences, nothing more.

@nicholaswright3801

Жыл бұрын

I’m autistic and it sickens me! We are unique people and we put our whole lives in the trust of adults and for the adults to wrong them on so many levels is devastating. Then you have kids in general including ones who are gay then the abuse on women’s rights and policing words and censoring people. 😢😢😡😡

It shouldn't be hard to say that men and women are alike in some ways and different in other ways and our differences matter. Its completely fine to disagree with gender roles and to call them too restrictive. That is a valuable conversation to have. It's another thing entirely to say male and female dont exist. If they dont then who is being acted on by the gender roles we're challenging?

@naptime_riot

Жыл бұрын

If anyone was saying that, you might have a point.

@maxalberts2003

Жыл бұрын

python java: I think you're confused. Trans people are the only ones seeking to live out stereotypical, "traditional" gender roles They actually believe that pantyhose, make-up and mascara constitute what a woman is. Every day is Halloween for them.

This conversation gives me hope that sanity may yet prevail

Because I feel I’m a woman, you must treat me as if I am one - or you are transphobic. I will participate in your groups, gatherings, or spaces. You must not talk about female socialisation, female anatomy, or female functions. It hurts my feelings. I was not socialised as a girl and I can’t know female experiences from cradle to grave, but if you speak about these things you will hurt my feelings. Your experiences as a woman should never invalidate my feeling like a woman. I’ll shame you for being female and make your body and oppression irrelevant at law, because only what I think about your body is real. -- Ruth Barrrett

@jameswhite7997

Жыл бұрын

Very powerful

@Tom-hp3kw

Жыл бұрын

So why does your magic/make believe world rank higher than someone who is real?

A big Amen at 37-38 min to what she says about the problems with Matt Walsh's world view.

@kamaliancirranoush1916

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. I watched the documentary, and while I dont disagree with the overall message it seems like he was just pandering to an audience that already agreed with him. There are so many valid, logically sound and compelling arguments surrounding trans ideology and the effects on children in particular- why he didn’t go in that direction, instead of the snarky pat-himself-on-the-back take is beyond me. He could have changed minds, but seemed happy to make a movie for the inhabitants of his echo chamber.

@Alnivol666

Жыл бұрын

@@kamaliancirranoush1916 If that is what you think he did, I am really sorry for you. Your dislike for people who do not think exactly like you is affecting your judgement of reasoned arguments.

@kamaliancirranoush1916

Жыл бұрын

@@Alnivol666 I said I agree with the overall message of the movie, but wasn’t impressed with the delivery. I feel like a closed minded, indoctrinated “woke” person would be automatically turned off by the presentation, and that is the group of people that need the most intervention where the issue of trans ideology effecting kids is concerned. Where did I say I dislike him? I felt like the movie was made for someone like me who already agrees with him.

@Alnivol666

Жыл бұрын

@@kamaliancirranoush1916 I am afraid "woke" people cannot be swayed by any arguments. It is like a cult. I have watched several of Peter Boghossian's street epistemology videos to understand how woke people think. The only thing you can do is present them for what they are to the rest who have no idea what this ideology means exactly. Let them show themselves how they are.

Prof Shermer deserves a gold medal both for his selection of this speaker AND for his work as an interviewer in this episome, No invasive humanism. Just the facts. i sometimes disagree w/ his approach but i almost always admire his choice of interview subjects.

One of your best conversations. Well done for hosting it, Michael, and for having such an interesting and articulate guest in Helen Joyce. Just ordered Helen's book :-)

8:50 Some atheists are much more opinionated, belligerent and obnoxious than others, but indiscriminately using the descriptive categorization, "militant," is routinely imprecise and pejorative. Unless, of course, the insurgent atheist is also brandishing a deadly weapon.

@Zoomo2697

Жыл бұрын

“The worst moment for an atheist is when he is really thankful and has no one to thank.” ― GK Chesterton

@jeffersonianideal

Жыл бұрын

@@Zoomo2697 That's when the humanist genuinely pays homage to another person or to their own self-reliance, and sarcastically congratulates Norway for providing the world with an overabundance of trolls.

@georgedoyle2487

Жыл бұрын

@@Zoomo2697 Great quote from Chesterton!! The debate between Matt Walsh and the trans gender paediatrician about chickens who lay eggs being assigned gender was hilarious and speaks volumes!! According to the literary genius G.K. Chesterton… “The Christian admits that the universe is manifold and even miscellaneous, just as a sane man knows that he is complex. The sane man knows that he has a touch of the beast, a touch of the devil, a touch of the saint, a touch of the citizen. The really sane man knows that he has a touch of the madman. But the materialist's world is quite simple and solid, just as the madman is quite sure he is sane. The materialist is sure that history has been simply and solely a chain of causation, just as the interesting person before mentioned is quite sure that he is simply and solely a chicken. Materialists and madmen never have doubts.” (G.K. Chesterton).

I have just discovered you Helen and want to say thank you so much for naming so many things I had been thinking (and I'm a gay woman). Especially about commentators on the christian conservative right being just as bad as the left wing gender ideologues, just the other side of the ideology problem.

@vfta7906

Жыл бұрын

Agreed

@ohwellwhateverr

Жыл бұрын

Recovering atheist, refound Christian here. Can you explain to me why you think the “Christian conservative right” is “just as bad” as the leftist gender-nuts? To me, that’s a completely unhinged statement. The gender mob are divorced from reality, they adopt pseudoscientific terminology to push ideas that at best can be called insane, and they outright refuse to engage in discussion, nevermind debate, with anyone of a different viewpoint. In fact they’ll mercilessly disown and attack their own if they question or challenge their doctrines. The gender mob behave exactly like religious extremists. They’ve substituted actual religion and virtue for fierce ideology and virtue-signalling. By contrast, commentators on the religious right welcome debate and discussion, speak lucidly and reasonably, take (ironically) a science-based approach, and act on humility rather than claims to know everything with certainty.

@vfta7906

Жыл бұрын

@@ohwellwhateverr just listen to yourself, you “found” god. Where was he she it they them? Or is good a man to you? 😂

@Attmay

Жыл бұрын

This is why I tolerate no sexuality but homosexuality and no religion but Judaism.

The fetishisation of gay men by teenage girls is often born out of the idea that a man's relationship to another man will be more equal than a mans relationship to a woman. I read a story about it from a person who left that online culture. She's heteros3xual but didnt feel that women were treated equally in relationships to men so she concluded that if she was a man she would be treated better.

@seto749

Жыл бұрын

One of a number of reasonable explanations - bur alas, each seems to be consdered an excuse.

@BM-fz9yc

Жыл бұрын

That idea is based in falsehood too so the fact that is driving girls to reject their own gender is really sad

@crabby7668

Жыл бұрын

I suspect it runs deeper. Women have always been more comfortable with male gays e. g. on television which is probably because they feel they are not threatened in any way sexually. For example they will accept any sexual innuendo however graphic from gays that they would be horrified by if it came from a straight male. Women are often the opposite with lesbians, whereas men are not threatened sexually by lesbians so more comfortable. A generalisation yes but a basis for your observation on teenage girls. Their parents are maybe showing them the way.

@Attmay

Жыл бұрын

I was not the case when I was a teenager, but that was the 90s and anime had not yet gone mainstream. Back then, most Westerners perceived Japanese animation studios as the places where the big American Studios went to cut costs and corners on their own animation. This means you, Disney.

@saistrology

8 ай бұрын

The fetish is more.abijt heterosexual, mainly white, women who are besties and BFF with gay men to the point where they relate more to.rhwm than to other women. That's what Helen was referring to. As a black woman, I've seen white women be more comfortable with gay males than around non white (particularly) black women. The more sassy (as satirized on tv), the gay man, the more popular he was with the ladies who adored him.

Watching old school atheists struggle with the realization that religion isn't the final boss is always fascinating.

I wish I could like this multiple times.

@irelandlynn954

Жыл бұрын

Me too. So I liked your comment to add another round about like lol

@kaye666

Жыл бұрын

@@irelandlynn954 Haha - me tooo!

@bertrandrussell894

Жыл бұрын

Sharing it is better than liking it I think. Spread it.

People over age 20- do you remember even ONE "trans" kid growing up? Me neither

@BrandonSchmit

Жыл бұрын

I only had 20-25 kids in my class grade 1-9. So statistically, most of us shouldn't have even if they exist at levels proposed. Probably didn't exist until high school (250 in my class) and since true trans gender folks are 0.6% so it's highly unlikely to have had that person. Socially, if they existed, they were probably just acting like a gay person. I get your point that now, it's way too prevalent.

@smallbeginning2

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I remember two. One grew up to be a great drag queen. The other died of a heart attack at 30 probably due to hormones. Neither of them did any pronoun stuff or whatever though, just embraced their femininity. These days they'd both be eunuchs. I went to a performing arts school though so fully half of us are at least a little gay 😂 I also remember one work mate back in 2002, who was already in their 40s or so.

@teleamor

Жыл бұрын

@@smallbeginning2 - I'm talking about those "embrace their femininity" by chopping off their spout and drilling a hole (not drag queens and gays).

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:57 📚 Helen Joyce introduces "One Dream," a subscription service offering educational content, including courses, tutorials, and documentaries on various subjects. 02:49 📖 Helen Joyce is the author of the book "Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality" and discusses her background as a journalist and mathematician. 05:13 🇮🇪 Helen Joyce is originally from Ireland and comes from a sporty family with a background in cricket. 08:43 🚫 Helen Joyce expresses her disappointment with the atheist and rationalist movements, citing the divide caused by social justice and the trans issue. 11:23 🙅‍♂️ Helen Joyce criticizes the concept of defining new categories for gender, challenging the idea that definitions themselves are a matter of justice. 14:04 🤔 Helen Joyce discusses the importance of distinguishing between rights, including trans rights and women's rights, and emphasizes the need to consider what is true. 19:55 ⚖️ Helen Joyce compares the current focus on trans rights to other civil rights movements and highlights the significant differences in these issues. 20:37 🚫 Many people are now hesitant to criticize the Democratic Party's stance on issues like transgender children's healthcare. 21:18 🤐 Some individuals and companies are reluctant to speak out against trans ideology due to fear of backlash and social ostracism. 23:36 📚 Author Helen Joyce recorded her own audiobook because many audiobook producers declined to produce it due to its controversial subject matter. 24:05 🤷‍♂️ There is a climate of fear and self-censorship around discussing gender ideology, where people are afraid to express dissenting opinions. 30:38 💔 The trans ideology has made it difficult to discuss the biological differences between men and women. 31:34 🎬 The film "What Is a Woman" features interviews with trans activists who often struggle to answer basic questions about gender and sex. 38:06 🏳️‍🌈 Helen Joyce emphasizes the importance of supporting and liberating gender-nonconforming children, rather than pushing them toward transition. 40:55 🌍 Helen Joyce discusses the historical context of gender dysphoria and how it's related to societal attitudes towards gender non-conformity. 42:33 🧪 Trans identification patterns suggest it's a culture-bound syndrome with a strong influence of social media and teenage girls. 45:38 🤔 Joyce emphasizes that no one truly knows what it's like to be a member of the opposite sex, and that intense longings to be the other sex are complex. 56:12 👩‍⚖️ The importance of maintaining women-only spaces for safety and autonomy, and how some men may underestimate the significance. 58:16 🧬 Helen Joyce's definition of "male" and "female" is based on reproductive roles, gametes, and the evolutionary biology of sex. Surgical alterations don't change this fundamental classification. 01:01:32 🚺 Living as a woman involves more than appearance; it encompasses standing up for women's sex-based rights. 01:04:18 💭 The video mentions that approximately three percent of men get sexual stimulation from wearing women's clothes, indicating the complex nature of gender and its relation to sexual preferences. 01:05:14 🧐 When gender lacks a clear definition, it raises questions about the purpose of transitioning. 01:05:56 🔁 Judith Butler's views on gender as fluid and performative differ from modern trans ideology's notion of an innate gender identity. 01:07:22 🤔 The speaker suggests that there is a biological substrate underlying gender differences, primarily influenced by biological sex. 01:13:55 🏆 In sports, men and women have significant physiological differences, making it important to maintain separate categories for fair competition. 01:19:32 🏋️‍♀️ The absence of trans men (female-to-male) dominating men's sports demonstrates the one-sidedness of the current gender inclusion debate in sports. 01:21:36 😮 Some people may ignore straightforward facts and engage in fluent argumentation about something that is irrational or nonsensical, which can lead to misguided beliefs. 01:23:45 🌈 The idea of being "born this way" is discussed concerning the LGBTQ+ community. While it might apply to some, it shouldn't determine one's rights, and the evidence suggests that people may have diverse paths to their identities. 01:27:57 🧬 The concept of innate gender identity is challenged, with different factors like gender identities, sexuality, age, and cultural influences influencing how people identify. 01:29:09 🚫 Limited data collection in gender medicine, coupled with ideological views, may hinder evidence-based healthcare. 01:33:35 👧 Transitioning children without proper parental consent or medical evaluation is problematic, and age restrictions on certain medical interventions may be necessary. 01:38:14 🌟 Gender-affirming surgeries are not necessarily functional organs of the opposite sex, and realistic expectations are crucial for satisfaction with such procedures. 01:42:30 📚 The number of detransitioners (individuals who transition and later decide to return to their birth gender) is challenging to quantify accurately due to a lack of follow-up data by gender clinics and health professionals. 01:43:27 🏥 Detransitioners often face difficulties in seeking medical support for their detransition journey, especially if they have already undergone surgeries like the removal of ovaries or testicles. 01:44:21 🚶‍♀️ A potential social contagion in teenage girls identifying as transgender may result in a growing number of detransitioners in the future. 01:45:02 🏛️ Similar to the recovered memory movement, it may be challenging to halt the transgender social contagion through legal action due to institutionalization of trans ideology in schools and organizations. 01:50:47 👨‍🏫 Schools play a vital role in shaping beliefs and perceptions, and reversing the impact of trans ideology may take time and concerted efforts. 01:52:38 🧘‍♂️ Developing thick skin and not dwelling on negative online comments can be a strategy for handling backlash and criticism effectively.

33:52 1972: "What's your sign?" 2022: "What's your pronoun?"

@L_Martin

Жыл бұрын

At least back then a Cancer couldn’t just “identify” into being a Sagittarius thus rendering all star signs meaningless 😂

@jeffersonianideal

Жыл бұрын

@@L_Martin True, although nothing stopped a person from lying about their date of birth in order to reap any benefits associated with being the "right sign". The closest thing to playing both sides of the astrological fence was being "on the cusp". Just like groundless astrology, however, transgenderism is founded upon mythology.

I really appreciate Helen Joyce. She is brilliant, so much so, that she speaks clearly and passionately iin a way everyone can understand. That is true intelligence.

Brilliant talk and I would definitely try to get my hands on her book. Thank you Helen for speaking up and being brave enough to say out loud common sense.

@AdelineCowgirl

6 ай бұрын

It isn't brave to say what the majority is already saying 😂

@zeldagoblin

3 ай бұрын

Many are losing jobs, careers, livelihoods and social standing for speaking out.

The media is incredibly dishonest about proposed legislation to outlaw 'gender affirming care' for minors. I saw an NPR article that declared a majority of Americans oppose such legislation. But this was based on a poll which asked if you were for or against legislation that would restrict access to health care for trans people. Well, _obviously_ if you ask it _that_ way most people would say they're against it because it suggests the legislation wants to limit access to health care in general for trans people. But that's _not_ what these bills are proposing. They're proposing prohibiting 'gender affirming care' (i e. hormone therapy and sexual reassignment surgery etc) for minors. There's no way most people are in favor of giving minors puberty blockers, chest binders, or sexual reassignment surgery.

There's no such thing as "my truth," or "your truth." There is "the truth." There is "my opinion and my belief." But, that is not the same as the truth.

@DieFlabbergast

Жыл бұрын

My recommendation (for what it's worth) is not to use the term "the truth" -- which sounds like The Truth in the religious sense -- and instead say "(the) facts" or "reality."

@nonfictionone

Жыл бұрын

@@DieFlabbergast my daughter at school is currently covering ‘True Facts’, ie the teacher is running sessions based around this. I said to her you don’t need the word true. It’s either a fact or it’s not. It shows where schools are at, there are facts that are true and facts that aren’t true.

@voulafisentzidis8830

3 ай бұрын

The problem is that perception is reality and we don't all view scenarios through the same lens.

I’m also a humanist & I have advocated for social justice issues for decades; I was really taken back when I was first call transphobic because I called out the grooming of the “drag” child Desmond Napoles. I became critical of the staggeringly misogynistic treatment of women’s rights & to appropriation of women’s spaces & issues. I’ve been told many many times that I was transphobic because I’ve said that trans identifying men are not biological women & trans identifying women are not biological men. The notion that women are a set of body parts, affectations, wearing makeup & women’s clothing is completely performative & ridiculous. Social media has enabled the construction of big online nefarious communities who are manipulating very vulnerable people; it’s a cult 😵‍💫🫣

I'm a gay woman and am really offended by this entire movement. They are calling us queers have thrown us all together. It's making a lot of ppl feel shame and discomfort. They are calling tomboy non gender conforming. So many little girls play sport have boy friends we all go through stages. It has really brought put shame in many gay ppl its very sad. Years of fighting to be seen as dignified ppl and the community has really become a bit of a forceful circus. There will be a backlash to this

37:37 If Matt Walsh ever specified, "who's in charge, who makes the sandwiches, whose voice gets heard," I would like Ms. Joyce to provide a reliable, documented source for her claim.

@nmiipsych5238

Жыл бұрын

I got that from the final scene in which he asks his wife what a woman is. She answers that "women are female adults who need help opening these" while handing him a jar of picles to open.. Even though he didn't explicitly say that the role of the woman is in the kitchen serving the family and the man I think that that was the implicit message he was trying to convey with this final scene.

@jeffersonianideal

Жыл бұрын

@@nmiipsych5238 Apparently, you missed the end of the documentary, and with it, the vital punchline.

@nmiipsych5238

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffersonianideal ok 😅 ill have a look.. Im genuinely trying to open myself up to more viewpoint diversity and have signed up to dailywire to watch matts documentary. Now I am interested in watching what else is out there that defies my own set of preconceptions. Anyway, have a nice day!

@jeffersonianideal

Жыл бұрын

@@nmiipsych5238 I watched the version that included the alternate ending. Matt Walsh furiously struggles to open the pickle jar, but fails. Matt hands the jar back to his calm and lovely wife, who opens it with ease. Slightly embarrassed and perturbed by the incident, Matt Walsh pauses momentarily and then says to his wife, "I loosened it for you."

@Seliz463

Жыл бұрын

The guy clearly pokes fun and makes light of gender stereotypes while very reasonably holding that a complementarian view of the differences between men and women is the most helpful way to create a stable family and raise children together. The Catholic view of marriage, family, and “gender roles” is actually pretty nuanced and healthy, but just slap the “Christian right wing nutjob label on the guy and dismiss everything he says

I became an atheist in 2009, after deploying to Iraq as a US Marine. I discovered the new atheist movement upon returning home. I was dismayed by the obvious religiosity that I found in the atheism plus “sect “ if you will. But I turned my attention to people like Denet and Hitchens, Dawkins and others. It’s heartening to see that are still people like these two, who are still holding the line. As a conservative atheist, I’m happy to see it.

@LoveYourself-my9nz

4 ай бұрын

Being conservative is itself problematic and Hitchens or Dawkins are not conservative but progressive people, so why do you like to call yourself conservative!? I mean if you like them and understand them why be conservative?

@1EpicLife1

4 ай бұрын

@@LoveYourself-my9nz trying to conserve, is in no way, inherently problematic. I never said hitchens or Dawkins or denet , we’re conservatives. I call myself a conservative because I wish to conserve that which is moral and good. I’m not a progressive because progress for its own sake, can be problematic and is so, more often than I find acceptable. Even the staunchest progressive, will eventually find themselves taking a conservative position, if they are truly rational thinkers.

That was truly excellent and a much-needed skeptical discussion of the very many issues surrounding gender ideology and the harms it causes. Although he's clearly far better informed than many other high-profile skeptics/humanists, I think Helen managed to peak Michael a few times in that!

Such an informative talk, and lots to think about! Will definitely have to watch a few times to digest it all. Great work.

I still don't think Dawkins is shrill, or at all fanatical. Turn on cable news right now and you will see a panel of people being more strident than he has ever been. As far as "fanatical" goes, he has never suggested outlawing religion or anything like that. He would be disgusted at the idea of forcing anyone to think a certain way. He just wants to convince people to base their beliefs on logic and evidence, and he doesn't hesitate to call crazy, crazy. How atheism became all intertwined with progressive politics is somewhat of a mystery. It simply, literally means, "not religious," at least to me. I don't like how former atheists are basically creating a new political religion/cult without even realizing it, but I still don't see anything to disagree with in the statement, "There is no good reason to believe in God and doing so potentially leads to bad things." 11:32 I would have liked to hear what caused her to change her views so much to now disagree with that, because that pretty much sums up my atheism.

@MisterVinnie2012

Жыл бұрын

Agreed, I think atheism got mixed up with politics because of Karl Marx, a lot of ideas on the left today have roots on Marxism and we know he was a critic of religion. Some atheists fall for group thinking the same way a religious person does, and that is due to the fact that atheism is not a set of ideas, being atheist does not make a person smarter or even more critical/sceptical

@lamalama9717

Жыл бұрын

@@MisterVinnie2012 there are plenty of atheist libertarians as well. Atheism really is just how you think on a single subject.

@Inquiringmind0

Жыл бұрын

@@MisterVinnie2012 It's not because of Karl Marx. Some people took Marx's ideas about class, distorted them, and tried to apply them to race, gender, sex, etc. This is a bastardization of Marx. It is unfair that Marxists are getting conflated with a bunch of wokies.

@jeffersonianideal

Жыл бұрын

Dr. Shermer routinely misapplies the word, "militant" in conjunction with atheists. It is only applicable in certain cases. Dr. Dawkins isn't one of them.

@InterstellarDreams

Жыл бұрын

Former atheist, current dogma averse, irreligious spiritual person, here. Which, for the record, I 100% agree with you! I loved Dawkins during my atheist years. And while I've since changed my mind, I still like and respect him, and I do NOT think he's strident or fanatical, no. He's just outspoken and opinionated, and doesn't bother covering his opinions in a bunch of meaningless fluff and niceties, to appease people! Which, I thoroughly respect that. Possibly even MORE so since I became gender critical, too. Didn't think about that one before. But I realize, probably YES. Because we are also just speaking our minds, and then get met with people just absolutely losing their SHIT at us, for rejecting gender ideology, and not going along with the social programming! It's been very weird, in that sense, waking up to this stuff. And realizing: "oh, I'm apparently one of the bad guys, now! But I'm actually just standing up for what I think is right!" And society just absolutely NOT being able to take it. I never had that problem with atheism, back when I was an atheist. As I live in Norway, where atheism is VERY well accepted! But since becoming a totally evil TERF? :-P I'm now coming to realize, while comparing notes, that: WOW! So, THIS was maybe how people felt, back then, coming out as atheists in the American Bible Belt south! No..? Like, you KNOW you're not a bad person, and you're just speaking your mind! But everyone around you is convinced you have suddenly become basically the devil? It's SUCH a head-fuck! And I get why people are scared to come out, when this is the reaction they're most likely to get! To be perfectly honest..? I haven't dared to FULLY come out as GC, to most people around me. I've dropped hints! A lot of hints. And I came out to a beloved family member, last time I saw her. But I didn't get to explain too much, and I'm not sure if she fully knows what gender critical is. Shall be exciting to see if she's researched it more, next time I see her. I VERY much doubt she will disown me. :-P But yeah... Funny how, suddenly, I can sort of RELATE to what atheists living in Bible belts must have felt, back then! The demonizing.. The misrepresentation.. The prejudice.. And people just simply NOT wanting to learn where you're actually coming from, why you just don't buy something, and the fact that that does NOT make you a bad person in any way! I also think gender ideology is basically the new secular religion / cult of our time! And I've seen some people refer to us GCs as gender atheists! Which I think is quite an apt description. Although I'm not just that, at this point. I'm a rabid gender ANTI-theist. And I've got SO many goddamn reasons, for that! I could rant about it incessantly, all day! But I won't. :P

I"m glad she described the problem with that Walsh guy. It's been forgotten that there is also a loony right wing out there. It's just that the Left is having it's moment in the limelight.

@georgedoyle2487

Жыл бұрын

“Looney” Ho the irony!! She misrepresented Walsh due to her own metaphysical biases. This was so obvious!!

@ruthhorowitz7625

Жыл бұрын

There have always been loony right and left, independent is the only way to go.

It's one thing for a person with testosterone and a penis to 'want to be a woman' in dress or surgery bc they don't 'identify as a man', and quite another for a person to take on the appearance of a woman then proceed to weaken or threaten conditions for girls or women that have had to deal with man-originating dangers of patriarchy for millennia. If you're going to dress or 'be' a woman, the only justification for you to attack the sex you want others to accept you as is self AND other destruction.

I totally agree that there's a social contagion here and that all the interest and affirmation that kids get when they identify as trans is a significant motivation for doing so. As always, Joyce is brilliant here, with her bullshit detector working beautifully. The only thing I wish she'd talk about that she isn't is how helicopter parenting--which is worst in the U.S. but also pretty bad in Britain--has contributed to this social contagion. Think about it: my generation (born in 1963) spent many hours every week away from adults, making decisions, taking normal, critically important risks, and generally having adventures and pursuing things that interested them. This is all gone, as of the 1980s. Although culture has changed, young people haven't: they still require those adventures and that practice being independent, and their loss of it has been disastrous for them, causing the steep decline in their mental health, the obesity epidemic (yes, young people use food emotionally the way adults do), and their search for meaning and stimulation in screens, materialism, and social contagions. Why is no one drawing this connection between the making of childhood into a boring, tepid experience and the stimulation that comes from transgressing gender mores? Am I the only one who sees how destructive the childproofing of childhood has been for young people and how much it’s contributed to the trans craze?!

@LDaw_96

Жыл бұрын

Agree! And the “everyone gets a trophy” I have 1 maybe two “adult” sons trying to be trans. I see how it is my fault. I thought I was protecting them. Instead i was setting them up. Hardest part is the entire medical establishment from psychiatric to doctors to political are all there to push them over the edge. Fist thing a therapist does is tell them to cut off anyone that disagrees with them. Even their family and especially their faith group. Can’t have them relying on anyone that will encourage them NOT to need a life time of therapy, surgeries and medication. Follow that money trail.

@Primalxbeast

Жыл бұрын

As of the 1980s? Those were gen-X kids and we weren't called latchkey kids without reason. I was born in 1970, so I'm a bit on the older side for a gen-Xer, but we had a lot of freedom. It was kind of hard for parents to keep tabs on us before cellphones became widespread.

@meganbaker9116

Жыл бұрын

@@Primalxbeast The 1980s were the decade traditional childhood, or what was left of it, was eliminated. This has been well-documented.

@Primalxbeast

Жыл бұрын

@@meganbaker9116 Documented where? In your imagination? Gen-X is used as an example of kids who played on their own and had lots of freedom. Unless your idea of a traditional childhood was having stay at home moms, which was before gen-X, but kids had less freedom when their moms were at home all day to supervise them. Gen-Xers spent all day off on their own playing outside.

@meganbaker9116

Жыл бұрын

@@PrimalxbeastJulie Lythcott Haims, Peter Gray, Lenore Skenazy, Jonathan Haidt for starters. I guess you’re not a reader….

This is soooo sobering. You can be or feel to be what ever you like, but don´t expect automatically to be taken seriously, no one has an obligation for that.

@Edward-gr2pb

Жыл бұрын

"I support anyone's right to be who they want to be. My question is: to what extent do I have to participate in your self-image?" - Dave Chappelle

@oldtimer7635

Жыл бұрын

@@Edward-gr2pb "I support anyone's right to be who they want to be" Who has said that, who are you talking about?

@steveflorida8699

Жыл бұрын

@Artivist Joan is "civic friendship" having a born male then self-identifying as a female impose the right to compete as a woman in the women's sports leagues?

@CJStew06

Жыл бұрын

You shouldn’t be taken seriously, old timer. Invalidating someone else’s truth and denying their individuality is the least serious conclusion to draw about another human being. You’re completely self-centered and delusional in what you think the world owes you.

@jananilcolonoscopu4034

Жыл бұрын

@Artivist Joan Apologies for bluntness, but your posts aren't quite coherent. Nonetheless it's worth pointing out to you that noting that "trans women" are just males, and therefore should not compete with females in sport, should not be placed in prisons for females alongside vulnerable inmates, etcetera, etcetera... is not a "swipe at trans women". It's merely stating facts. The truth is never prejudiced, and never illegitimate.

Having 4 kids, two of each sex, I adamantly state that, while being distinctly unique personalities, the boys and the girls are very different, along sex characteristic lines, behaviour, interests, aptitude…. It’s bloody obvious.

@DieFlabbergast

Жыл бұрын

This post (and thousands like it) is the equivalent of explaining to a two-year-old that fire is hot and ice is cold. The fact that you felt the need to say these bloody obvious things tells us where the world is today. Absolutely everyone knew these basic facts until (it feels like) a week ago. I truly despair.

@ginaritchie451

Жыл бұрын

lol. that is because you have 4 cisgender kids. if you had transgender or non binary kids you would see that is not always the case. it is so malignant to assume your kids are the only kind of kids that should exist.

@theroyalone5765

Жыл бұрын

@@ginaritchie451 She didn’t say that “THEY” don’t exist, she’s saying that there is obvious differences biologically between boys/men and girls/women, although y’all make up a tiny fraction of society

@ohwellwhateverr

Жыл бұрын

@@ginaritchie451 It’s like you’re speaking in tongues. Outside of your weird little Reddit clique, your make-believe gobbledygook “non-binary”, “cisgender” and “trans” is treated as the joke we all know it is. I hope you get over that concussion

@Primalxbeast

Жыл бұрын

I'm a woman and I acted more like a boy from the time I was a toddler. I'm 51 and still don't relate to other women. However, I don't think that being masculine means that I'm actually a man.

Wrote masters on gender. 8 factors determine gender 1) sex organs, 2) DNA, 3) birth certificate, 4) social behaviors 5) mating preference, 6) self identity, 7) court order, 8) and gender presentation. Not so simple to determine and one can be at odds within self. Attended gender dysphoria support group for a year. Concluded it is sexist/stereotyping to believe one's physical body must match the "gender identity" and it's cruel to make people believe extensive surgery and invasive treatment is the answer. The answer is love yourself and accept yourself exactly as you are. Everything doesn't have to match! I am physically female and behave very "masculine" (stereotype, many women behave this way and it doesn't make me a man!) Love and accept yourself. You are fine being yourself and don't need to change anything.

@eleccy

Жыл бұрын

Interesting, is the a weighting or anything else associated with these factors?

@BalloonInTheBalloon

Жыл бұрын

I wonder why this movement is so quick to say that children who don't show stereotypical behavior might be of the other sex ... how is that for enforcing stereotypes.

@normatemp2071

Жыл бұрын

I am trans. I accept myself. People like me truly exist. Reevaluate.

@jananilcolonoscopu4034

Жыл бұрын

@@normatemp2071 Sorry Norma, but the words "trans" and "gender" are effectively meaningless, because they can apparently mean anything to anyone.

@pythonjava6228

Жыл бұрын

Intelligent observation! Most cases of incongurent gender identity can be boiled down to discomfort with restrictive gender roles. What people need is not surgery its acceptance.

Great interview. I have Helen's book in paper and audio and highly recommend it 👌

As a rationalist and a Christian I give so much credit to atheists who are mindful, courageous and smart enough to speak out against the modern zealots of lgbtq ideology.

@muratcomert8030

9 ай бұрын

a rationalist AAAAAND a Christian? at the same time? Made me laugh!

@thelionsam

9 ай бұрын

@@muratcomert8030 thats bcos' you're ignorant 😉

@skonther0ck

8 ай бұрын

Um. Sorry if this is news to you, but rationalism and religion are mutually exclusive. Because it’s irrational to believe in the supernatural. There’s only the natural world of which we are a part.

Well that was my first experience of Helen. What a very intelligent, well researched and eloquently spoken woman.

Always glad to see Helen given a platform, but I was disappointed at the bad grammar concession @34 mins. To yield any part of language obfuscates the point, messes with our brains, and lends credence to this phoney ideology.

@sharifsalem

Жыл бұрын

Indeed, pronouns are Rohypnol after all.

I was very interested to hear about Helen's experience with humanists and their refusal to apply reason to gender ideology. I am a humanist myself and used to visit schools to talk about it to students (more than 3,000 overall). However, since Humanists UK promote gender self-id, I have withdrawn from the schools programme. I cannot, in good conscience, stand up in front of young people and claim that humanists believe science is the best way to understand the world in these circumstances. So glad that Richard Dawkins has endorsed Helen's book. The irony is that he is a patron of Humanists UK.

@ginaritchie451

Жыл бұрын

you were never a humanist then.

@richardgilyead7640

Жыл бұрын

​@@ginaritchie451 Not the kind of humanist who believes in the new gender religion, no.

Matt Walsh is absolutely correct when he says that the argument can’t be won if we submit to going along with obvious and blatant falsehoods. For example, men should not compete against women in sports. If you say that trans women are women, then you can’t make a coherent argument that it’s wrong.

@skumflum3768

Жыл бұрын

Yeah but personally I don’t like his stile. He project “you are a stupid human” towards those he debates. Also he links this to a political side (left vs right). I’m more on the left temperamental but I don’t identify with the extremist

@aly8380

Жыл бұрын

@@skumflum3768 Nonsense has to be called out to its face. "Fear of hurting their feelings" has been used to good effect by trans advocates to advance their narrative. In fact, the trans proponents have been effective by being very direct and alpha and in your face with those who dare disagree. We should not deny their opponents to be equally strident. They deserve the same respect. -)

@academyofchampions1

Жыл бұрын

@lee161 completely agree!! You stated it much better than I did! Thank you

@88mphDrBrown

Жыл бұрын

Yes you can. The problem comes from debating these issues with absolutely no nuance and the inability to realize that words have multiple meanings. You could play this dishonest shell game with less complicated topics to the same effect. What is a father? You could give a long answer about a man impregnating a woman with sperm and sharing DNA with their child, but that would be as incomplete and stupid as the way Walsh addresses "what is a woman?". We all know there are plenty of fathers that share no DNA with their children. You can pretend there's no difference between sex and gender (I'll give you the benefit of not actually being stupid enough to believe there is no difference), we categorize sports according to biological sex, and if you look into the history of codifying what constitutes sex for sports you'll find that it's significantly more difficult than anyone would expect. Codifying sex isn't as simple as "look at the genitals" or "check the chromosomes", so debating gender issues is exponentially more difficult considering it can be used as a synonym for "sex" or have completely different meanings.

@toobnoobify

Жыл бұрын

@lee161 She did pretty badly misrepresent Walsh's position. Very condescending to his wife, painting her life some weak beaten victim rather than a willing partner in their relationship. She just doesn't want to acknowledge that there are women who _choose_ not to have the same values in life as she does. And even if Walsh was the vile misogynist that she paints him as, he still isn't remotely as big a part of the problem as trans activists (as she suggested). Children are not being indoctrinated into Christian fundamentalism in schools. And schools don't have policies to hide their Christian fundamentalist teachings from parents. In fact, public schools have been shamelessly hostile towards Christianity for decades now. As an atheist, I'm a million times more concerned about my kids falling victim to trans ideologues than becoming Christians.

Greatly enjoyed listening to Helen, love her clarity of thought in cutting through all the nonsense required to become an ally and/or member of the trans movement. I'd been so worried and busy for the past few years fighting the encroaching authoritarianism of the right that this whole toxic movement caught me by surprise in the last couple of year or so. I really didn't know how deeply rooted it had become as the new Human Rights quest by the left at large - where you either conform with the dogma & validate the delusions or suffer the consequences, which can be pretty dire. Likely why so many liberals refrain from saying anything even if they have to know this pseudo religious ideology is nonsensical to its very core. Which is why I too have come to the conclusion that enough is enough no matter the blow-back. My turning point came when I started reading about what they are doing to children that is so repugnant as to make Dr. Mengele proud. Since I started opposing the irrationality on social media I went from life-long liberal to transphobic bigot in a matter of days, with the ensuing bleed of followers by the hundreds. That only makes me more determined to keep at it as this isn't - or rather, shouldn't be - a political issue but one of common sense. Sex is immutable thus it cannot be changed no matter how many surgeries are done or hormones consumed - much less with the woke duality woo where people say they can change gender by fiat, and then sex is nonchalantly discarded. Which is the sleight of hand the TRAs use to issue the tautology: "a trans woman is a woman". Never mind that it results in ludicrous stories such as the one Michael mentioned, where a man can call himself a woman & then claim to have lesbian sex with his wife. That they are experimenting with kids, and attempting to erase women, are the real Human Rights issues at stake. As for The What Is A Woman exposé, while I concur with Helen re: Matt Walsh and his own dogmatic agenda, I think his movie can be watched as a primer and an eye-opener for the millions of people that are mostly unaware of the TRA lobby & how powerful and insidious it has become. And you can do that without validating Matt's own anti-feminist take, which, to be fair is hardly featured in the film but rather insinuated as Dr. Joyce points out. I've recommended it to friends and family that are part of the demographic I mentioned before: largely unaware of what is happening - they are still at the neutral stage of live and let live when it comes to the trans movement because either they don't know any trans activists hellbent on policing speech, or doublethink hasn't affected them or their children directly yet. And the responses have been unambiguously positive along with incredulity & large doses of both fear and anger for what lays ahead. In closing, I'd be remiss not thanking Michael for bringing and conducting this interview for all of us - I've read and followed him from the early 90s during my hard core atheist days. Like Helen I've also let go of my activism for mostly the same reasons - as my user name suggests I am not much for corseted agendas of any kind. All the best to both.

@CJStew06

Жыл бұрын

No one owes you their identity. No one has to play by what you think is right. You old people have the most dull and meandering opinions on this-you spent you’re whole time writing that and comparing it to religious dogma when it’s just people wanting to be respected and not be profiled by ignorant Boomers who routinely refuse to put their shitty personal beliefs aside simply to accept an individual’s identity. It’s not “policing speech” - it’s pointing out, very correctly, that you’re an asshole who believes their interpretation of what they see is reality and that you have a right to deny people from forming their own identity.

@denisHolySpirit

Жыл бұрын

Matt Walsh doesn't bring any of his worldview into his film so should be reviewed on the content alone. All he does is ask people 'what is a woman?'

@hsmd4533

Жыл бұрын

I was a lifelong Democrat, but now an independent. Consider not dismissing Matt Walsh so easily. I watch him frequently and don’t agree with everything he says but he is light years ahead of most of the prominent leftists. I used to vilify the right but as I’ve listened to Matt, Ben Shapiro, even Steven Crowder, i now realize they are extremely logical and fact-based, and are none of the things the left says about them (e.g. racist, etc.) Good luck on your continued journey of open mindedness.

Exceptional conversation from well informed individuals! I learned a lot. Thank you!

Jonathan Haidt also talks about the point made at 1:22 regarding intelligent people who believe stupid things. We are all post-hoc reasoners. Intelligent people are better at rationalizing beliefs that they already hold or want to believe. Still, it’s been jaw dropping to watch high intelligent people espouse these idiotic claims about gender. It’s one thing for an intelligent person to believe in god because god’s existence can not be disproven, but the realities of biological sex are so obvious and easily proven.

@Henriktranoy

Жыл бұрын

You know, biological sex is not a term used by biology, nor is it easy to prove. In nature sex is not a pure binry (not even trinary) system. Maybe you should read up on it a bit before you call anyone stupid. You are right that intelligent people can have the "wrong" opinion. That is mostly due to that everything is complicated, and there are a lot of reasons for believing this or that. If you ever find yourself in the position that you think a lot of people get something very wrong, and you don't understand why, that is often an indication on that you, yourself have some reading or reasoning to do. A good check is if you can get someone you disagree with to accept your portration of their argument. "you have idiotic claims" won't do.

@TriteNight1218

Жыл бұрын

@@Henriktranoy "You know, biological sex is not a term used by biology". Used by biology? Do you mean by biologists? Or used in the field of biology? Regardless, you are being pedantic because you know what I'm referring to. I denote "biological" to differentiate from sexual intercourse and also because the language around this topic has become so fraught that I must take care to be as specific as possible. Among humans, sex is binary. There are a small number of people with DSD's, but that does not make them a 3rd sex category. I'm not sure why intersex conditions are even brought up in these discussions, however, because we aren't talking about people with intersex conditions; we are talking about people who are unambiguously male or female. You're right; if you are in a room full of intelligent people that are telling you that your opinion is wrong, that's a good indication that you may be wrong. That is not always the case however. I'm not sure what else to say about that. I wasn't trying to persuade anyone in my comment. If I were, I probably wouldn't use the term "idiotic". That being said, if someone espouses the claim that males do not have any inherent physiological advantages over females in athletics, I feel confident in calling that claim idiotic. That is where we currently are in public discourse.

@Henriktranoy

Жыл бұрын

@@TriteNight1218 "You know, biological sex is not a term used by biology". Used by biology? Do you mean by biologists? Or used in the field of biology? Regardless, you are being pedantic because you know what I'm referring to. I denote "biological" to differentiate from sexual intercourse and also because the language around this topic has become so fraught that I must take care to be as specific as possible. " Yeah, I think you saw what I meant with my typo. Sorry about that, I was tired and frustrated. Did not mean to be as pedantic as I sounded, but I felt that the language you used to describe those who you disagree with here warranted a reply. As a fellow listener to the sceptic podcast, I think we agree on a lot of ways of reasoning, and I was trying to remind you to apply it here as well. "Among humans, sex is binary. There are a small number of people with DSD's, but that does not make them a 3rd sex category. I'm not sure why intersex conditions are even brought up in these discussions, however, because we aren't talking about people with intersex conditions; we are talking about people who are unambiguously male or female." Actually, it is not binary. it's mostly binary for sure, but you also have super-males, super-females, other chromosomal configurations (xxy), which by the way, pops up, as about 1/400 has a non-standard configuration, and it is very real for them. If we were talking about people who were "unambiguously" male or female, I don't think we would be talking actually. And I would be very careful to dismiss it outright based on my own personal experience. Especially when I don't have a perfect understanding of everything that goes into consciousness, experience of self, gender, sex, and gender roles. Reading about this, and gender and sex on wikipedia, WHO and other medical sources is fascinating. (I do of course shy away from post-modernist sources). "That being said, if someone espouses the claim that males do not have any inherent physiological advantages over females in athletics, I feel confident in calling that claim idiotic. That is where we currently are in public discourse." If I got that argument against me, I would not call them idiots, but I would press them on why women who underwent puberty as a boy almost always win, in spite of being so few in numbers. And have them explain exactly what they mean, and if they are sincere in their belief. I don't think anyone would seriously argue that there are no physical advantages, and if they do, I think you will have a much easier time defending your position than they will theirs. But my main point is, if there are a lot of people who hold a different opinion than you, there is often a good reason for it. They might not be correct, but you should at least be able to understand why, or where they come from. It is rare that everyone who disagrees are just "stupid".

@PepsiMagt

Жыл бұрын

@@Henriktranoy sex is strictly binary in all complex multicellular life. Every single animal started as a diploid zygote, which formed by the the fertilisation of one female haploid gamete by one male haploid gamete. It does not get any more binary than that. Also, no woman has went through male puberty.

She’s intelligent and tenacious enough to stand up to one of the major cancellation forces of today. Yet it’s interesting to see her vitriol also aimed at Walsh for being a man and being religious. It just shows that the people in this fight against the non-logical are of varied backgrounds and don’t necessarily like each other. And that’s what it will take to win when dealing with useful idiots and their manipulative and dangerous academic leadership. It’s Team Reality vs Team Fantasy and Team Reality has to win. The more logical combatants of all stripes, the better.

@Zoomo2697

Жыл бұрын

She is simply a Woman who has lost her faith. Quote on Birth Control may help things here...Helen Joyce is truly confused woman “The root principle of birth-control is unsound. It is a glorification of the means and a contempt of the end; it says that the pleasure which is a means to the procreation of children is good, but the children themselves are no good. In other words, to be logical, the philosophy of birth-control would commit us to a world in which trees were always blooming but never giving fruit, a world full of sign-posts that were leading nowhere. In this cosmos every tree would be a barren fig tree and for that reason would have upon it the curse of God.”

One of my colleagues who is both a psychiatrist and a lawyer had this to say recently: "American psychiatry has been slow to respond to various examples of mass hysteria (like "recovered memories ", "multiple personality disorder", "satanic cult abuse", and "sudden onset gender dysphoria") and that's a good thing. Trouble is that, in the meantime, poorly trained "therapists" and advocates occupy the field speaking psychobabble. They convince well-meaning courts and legislatures that a fad, driven by social contagion, is a serious form of individually experienced distress "ignored by the patriarchal medical profession". Eventually, the boat turns right side up when the right people start getting sued for the right things. We're on track for that turning point in the transgender social movement."

@leftgrrl

Жыл бұрын

The myth of "sudden onset gender dysphoria" will be maintained as long as it gets the voters out for Trump

@Carmine207

Жыл бұрын

SOGD is not a myth, there are too many studies that have validated it as a serious social contagion operating the same way as anorexia and romantic suicides. The reality is That this all starts with homophobia. Gender dysphoria is purely self-defense - a direct psychological response - a consequence of gender non-conformity and the social disgust and hatred for males who express feminine behaviors and females who express masculine behaviors. End the homophobia and we will end gender dysphoria.

@Carmine207

Жыл бұрын

@@leftgrrl see my comment below. And by the way, most of this has nothing to do with Felonious Trump, and with any luck he'll spend the rest of his wretched life in prison.

@marlonmoncrieffe0728

9 ай бұрын

Too bad so many children will be forever mutilated in the meantime.

Referencing the conversation around the 1:22: 00 mark... Everyone is exactly smart enough to convince themselves of whatever they want to believe. "Dumb" people have the advantage of being surrounded by other people with the capacity to explain things better than they can explain to themselves. The curse of "smart" people is that when we've convinced ourselves of something it's hard to find someone who will offer us a better argument, a way to unravel our mistake. Everyone should be eager to employ self-skepticism, to question and doubt their own beliefs. It should be considered a responsibility like any other responsibility. For "smart" people, because the consequences are more prolific and the social correction mechanism is relatively so much weaker, the responsibility is that much greater. We are all wrong most of the time about most things even if only a little. It is our duty to consider, reveal and correct our beliefs. Self-skepicism is our friend.

I enjoyed this talk, keep it up helen and micheal, wonderful...

Never heard of Helen Joyce before. Great clear points, really well spoken and smart. Going to resubscribe to Audible just to buy her book.

Anyone got a link to the tweet thread she’s talking about?

Thank you for bringing this awe inspiring individual into my awareness. I know what audiobook I’ll be supporting this week. Xox

Excellent conversation, thanks. I appreciate your courage too

The interview is great, just great, I appreciate a lot your labour Michael, I really liked this interview to Helen, I got the book, simply great. By the way, the quality of the audio and video are specially good, do you use squadcast?

@skepticmagazine

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! We record with Riverside.

@citycrusher9308

Жыл бұрын

@@skepticmagazine @9:40 - ''far left progressive politics'' No. Wrong. fem ideology is the proper answer. Be honest about who is doing this. These ''progressives'' only attack men. You know this. So please be accurate

Thank you for this very frank and interesting discussion of a topic that hits close to home for many of us. I am not an atheist, am religious but skeptical of many things, and share many of the views expressed in this interview. I wish it were more clear to more people that both conservative and progressive camps these days are headed toward authoritarianism, only different in style. It will take more people, like and unlike Helen Joyce, courageously speaking out to hopefully bring people to their senses and end this gender madness. I appreciate the acknowledgment of oppressive dogmatism among atheists. It’s the kind of rigid group behavior that has vilified religion and yet isn’t an integral part of it - but is part of human nature.

@hoopoe9629

Жыл бұрын

@@fullyfb3847 no you’re not, and sad you feel the need to articulate that! I don’t agree that the progressives are worse, since the corporate consolidation helping to make this all possible has been facilitated by conservatives. But the left is disturbingly misguided and oblivious especially since colleges and universities are making it all look so obviously right.

Michael asked Helen, “what makes this different from someone in our generation growing their hair out or dyeing their hair pink?”, and Helen started with “it’s just so harmful”, which is one, true, difference, and then she expounded on the point. What I would say is so fundamentally different is, when I was a teen, I *was* the “dye my hair and wear the tattered shirt because I’m ‘different’ and ‘cool’” person, but the entire idea behind that (immature as it may have been) was that doing those things *was* “against the norm”. I was following a trend nonetheless, but it was a truly minority trend that was not celebrated in the mainstream and that is why I and others like me gravitated towards that behavior. I didn’t “feel” mainstream, therefore I bucked the mainstream trend. This, on the other hand, is completely and absolutely glorified and applauded by the mainstream. It’s nuanced because yes, technically people in the trans community are still a minority, but society and all forms of media are definitely pushing this lifestyle as if it consists of 50% of humans. With that comes dire consequences, such as the ideology implementation in elementary schools and literal children being guided by the hand into thought patterns that are way beyond their comprehension and, to make matters worse, we have government officials and agencies making laws and setting precedents that can strip a child from their parents because the ADULTS aren’t going along with what the CHILD is saying. Now, take my example of “dyeing my hair and wearing a tattered shirt” and just imagine there had been a full fledged effort to teach 2nd graders the benefits of dyeing their hair and smoking pot at concerts with their buddies and how if their parents disagree with that behavior, they have every right to come to school and tell their teacher that their parents aren’t going along with it so that the teacher can turn them in to child services! I know that sounds absurd and hyperbolic, but not only is that exactly what *is* happening, but it’s happening in regards to something irreversible and permanently damaging to the children. At least the kid’s natural hair color could eventually grow back out and they could put down the pot and get back to a normal life. With this ideology, if a 12 year old goes along with everything that is being taught and in some cases pushed, they will literally cut off their genitalia and circumvent their puberty so that they can be given exogenous hormones. When the children that are currently being indoctrinated into this ideology get to their early 20’s (or sooner), we as a society will see the true implications of what is currently happening. My only hope is that people wake up before we get so far down this path that an entire generation has been damaged beyond repair. All we can do (the sane ones that see through the veil already) is speak our minds plainly when this subject arises and have content such as this to share/back us up.

What an excellent conversation! Thank you Mike!

I have been fascinated by this subject since seeing the BBC documentary - A Change of Sex - back in 1979. I was a teenager at the time, in a very gender-bendery age where boys dressed as girls and girls as boys. Flash forward 20 years and there was very much a swing towards the binary and I think a lot of people felt disenfranchised by this for all sorts of reasons. "Trans" is not a single concept... if woke people are finding it hard to define a woman, well that's just peanuts compared to trying to define what makes a trans person trans.

I love her assessment of Matt Walsh! She put my feeling of unease into words. I always wondered why I agree with Matt Walsh on only this one narrow thing and not much otherwise.

@pankakesnotstellar

10 ай бұрын

Religious Conservatives only disagree with trans on which sex the stereotypes fall on. They want masculine stereotypes on men and feminine ones on women. Trans say if I take on feminine stereotypes then I'm a female. Helen and radical feminists want to reduce the stereotypes at a minimum and that taking on stereotypes doesn't change your sex of male/ female.

I get it. It is OK to be warriors of any kind of culture wars except for the one totally taboo and prohibited CLASS WAR.

The complete and uniform denial of risk regarding transitioning by itself gives reason to be extremely.skeptical.

We need more discussion on the prevalence of gender dysphoria in autistic children. Autism and transgenderism appear to me to beg the question, are these conditions a stepping stone in the evolution towards transhumanism. A completely different type of being that is an amorphous amalgamation of what people like Ray Kurzweil call the singularity.

Good to know that madness is being slowly fought against, if only people will pay attention.

"it [activism] is not something that can combine well with journalism" THANK YOU! Now, can someone tell the US press this? FFS

Haha that jar of pickles scene really annoyed me too.

So grateful and relieved to see this discussion in the skeptic community. I became really disillusioned at the wokeness and lack of rationality (ironically) that spread into the skeptic and atheist 'movement' (for lack of a better word)

Thank you very much. We have a similar situation in Switzerland.

Thank goodness for the long-form discussion/debate format that has proliferated on KZread, hopefully putting the final nail in the coffin of legacy media's 60-second nonsense "gotcha!"-style talking-heads interrupting each other.

@BalloonInTheBalloon

Жыл бұрын

Spot on! I hate the infantile gotcha meme styled debates.

1:23:45 Relating to the "born this way" discussion: Back in 2019 a study was published in Archives of Sexual Behavior titled "A Life History Approach to the Female Sexual Orientation Spectrum: Evolution, Development, Causal Mechanisms, and Health". It explored the biological differences between so called "butch" and "femme" lesbians. It convincingly showed that these two groups have clear differences in their brains. Butch lesbians have more masculine traits, for example, they are more prone to taking risks, have a larger number of sexual partners and have good spatial awareness. They are often tomboys while growing up, and aware of their attraction to women early on. Femme lesbians, on the other hand, highlight their femininity. They often realize they're gay only in their 20s, and their first sexual partners are men. Lesbian couples often consist of one butch and one femme lesbian. When they start planning to have children, the initiative for this usually comes from the femme, and she also is the one who carries the child. These differences are the result of the amounts of hormones girls are exposed to while in the womb. The short version is: a butch lesbian got an overdose of testosterone in the womb, while a femme lesbian got an overdose of oestrogen in the womb. The INAH-3 area in the hypothalamus determines if one is attracted to men or women. If it's large, a person is generally attracted to women, if it's small, a person is generally attracted to men. Heterosexual men generally have a far larger INAH-3 than heterosexual women. This, however, does not apply to homosexuals. Lesbians tend to have a large INAH-3, while gay men tend to have a small INAH-3. What determines the size of the INAH-3 is the amount of testosterone it's exposed to while developing. However, what's interesting is that testosterone itself does not make INAH-3 grow. Instead, testosterone transforms into oestrogen, and the oestrogen makes INAH-3 grow. So a woman can get a large INAH-3 either by receiving a large amount of testosterone or a large amount of oestrogen. If a female foetus is exposed to a large amount of testosterone, it becomes more masculine, but then that large amount of testosterone transforms into a large dose of oestrogen in INAH-3, which then leads to the girl becoming a butch lesbian. But if a female foetus is exposed to a large amount of oestrogen, it becomes very feminine, but then that large amount of oestrogen also makes INAH-3 grow, turning the girl into a femme lesbian. How much testosterone or oestrogen a foetus is exposed to is determined partially by its genes, and partially by the mother's body. The mother's stress can make her hormone levels fluctuate and impact the foetus.

@jaynehurley411

Жыл бұрын

This is crap. It's all based on restrictive societal gender norms. Just like trans ideology. Trans ppl are more interested in continuing regressive gender norms than some right-wingers. Look at their flag: pastel blue and pink stripes.🤮

@sharifsalem

Жыл бұрын

A “masculine” woman is still a woman.

@pythonjava6228

Жыл бұрын

Your theory doesnt make sense for a number of reasons. Firstly, its impossible to test a woman's uterine hormone levels after the child has already been born and testing it while shes pregnant is often unethical so right away the argument is post hoc. Secondly you contradict yourself by saying the testosterone doesne make the jnah-3 grow but rather oestrogen and then say that either testosterone or oestrogen will make it grow. Thirdly butch-femme couples are not an inevitability. They actually used to be quite rare and in the past those couples developed not out of preference but out of necessity to pass for straight while in public. Fourth the relationship between a tomboy childhood and a same s3x attracted adulthood is not very strong (the relationship is stronger in gay men than in women) A significant portion of heterosexual women were tomboys as children.

@collyernicholasjohn

Жыл бұрын

There currently is no evidence of a biological basis to the trans phenomenon. We often hear trans-identifying people are trapped in the wrong body. This is a myth and not based on any credible scientific evidence. There are few clear structural differences between male and female brains, let alone evidence transgender people have a brain that does not match up with their natal sex.

I'm also grateful that Joyce calls out Matt Walsh's biblical attitude toward women. He certainly is part of the problem.

@georgedoyle2487

Жыл бұрын

“He certainly is part of the problem” I think that Helen Joyce’s confirmation bias is part of the problem. Not to mention your (No True Scots Man Fallacy), red herring, irrelevancy fallacy, that is non sequitur!! This is a non religious ideology lol!! Sorry but when our pride usurps Truth, we walk on the shifting sands of relativism, an ego driven reality!! Evidence to the contrary please not logical fallacies!! I’ll wait!! (Relativism, strictly reductive materialism, militant atheism or philosophical naturalism): “The belief that the absolute truth is that there is no absolute truth!!” “The belief that if i just screamed loud enough [there is no such thing as sound] then sound will cease to exist!!” “The belief that [no one took no time to turn nothing into everything] and that the magical “nothing” squeezed the whole universe inside something “physically” smaller than this tiny dot [.].“ “The belief that the most luxurious slide into the VOID and into oblivion is the highest ideal and virtue of the human being” Everyone has a right to believe what they want and everyone including theists have a right to find it totally ridiculous, nihilistic, fatalistic and self refuting….

@marlonmoncrieffe0728

9 ай бұрын

...What is wrong with biblical?

@meganbaker9116

9 ай бұрын

@@marlonmoncrieffe0728 Using the Bible as your guide to how women should behave is simply Stone Age. What’s wrong with it? What isn’t?!

Also about pro nouns, what hapeens in a GCSE English exam. How do we now write about the 3rd person not somepne who is they and them? Really enjoying this chat. Very listenable.

@leftgrrl

Жыл бұрын

You know how "school" can mean both a building and a group of fish? That's how.

👏 👏 SO GRATEFUL 🙏 to people like HELEN who THANKFULLY has the EXPERTISE and COURAGE TO SPEAK OUT ON THIS BERY IMPORTANT SUBJECT. THE WORLD, THE WOMEN, AND THE CHILDREN NEED YOU SO MUCH RIGHT NOW. THANK YOU FOR YOUR VOICE 🙏 🤲 and God bless you.

Thank you Helen x

14:54 "There is no such thing as atheism as a worldview. It's just lack of belief in god, full stop." Beautifully said.

@Gone2TxInspect

Жыл бұрын

Well- a judiciary devoid of fairy tale worship seems better and better over here

@jeffersonianideal

Жыл бұрын

@@Gone2TxInspect If you're referencing the U.S. Supreme Court, there is plenty of mythological proselytizing on both sides. Each faction places its blind faith in one or both of the two, big 'G's.

@Gone2TxInspect

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffersonianideal Im referencing any court. Show me the evidence or stfu

@collyernicholasjohn

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffersonianideal Gender-woo and God? Scary. Arguably, Matt Walsh and trans-activists have much in common: irrational beliefs and gender stereotypes.

@jeffersonianideal

Жыл бұрын

@@collyernicholasjohn Swing and a miss.

Where’s all these sporty trans men competing men in sport? 🤨

If you can be another gender, why not a different race? Because racial differences are primarily political and cultural, while gender is largely genetic since gender is in the brain/mind and the brain is a biological organ. You can't very well experience being a true member of another race if you haven't lived that experience. True transgender individuals are rare, and deserve respect, but trans activists have appropriated their experiences in an effort to deconstruct gender altogether. The transgender disconnect between brain and biological sex below the neck is extremely rare, but now it's treated like the rule rather than the exception. Now I get called transphobic for making this very important distinction.

Do you think social media has fed into the trans movement by concretizing a particular idealized female image that so many teenage girls have internalized abs yet also feel they can’t live up to?

@helenablavatsky9136

Жыл бұрын

Well, most large media outlets are funded by big pharma. Then there's porn. Kids look at porn before they have their first kiss. Modern, online porn is violent. Choking, pain, anal....a lot of it resembles snuff films. A girl might want to opt out of that if she thinks that's what being female requires of her.

@minuishaq631

Жыл бұрын

Jonathan Hadit has written a lot about social media and its affect on teenagers

This is a great interview and I will *definitely* be purchasing the audiobook now!

Thank you.

"Cognitive creationism" - nice, I'm going to use this. It seems this is a case where "concepts" have been abstracted to the point they got disconnected from the reality from which they were first derived.