PS ; I think the arrow speed drag factor will potentially show up at actual target distance more than a chrono distance .

Always interesting topics from a practical point of view. Great video! Thanks, Greg! 👍

Very interesting indeed. Thanks so much for doing this as it clarifies my Fletching choices for general archery and hunting too.

WE learn more from your 'unscientific' experimentations than from most anything else!!! Thank you!! Really COOL.

Thank you for your analysis. I love feathers. I've always loved the longer feathers as they're more beautiful. Now I have less reservations choosing themmover the 3".

Cheers Greg, I do enjoy your videos. As a new trad archer I like to see "accepted facts" and myths being tested. In your target archery results, it appears that your first arrow of the end/set is a marker/ranging shot or loose. Regarding your long range experimental observations, given that you used the same aim point for all shots, I believe your shorter fletched arrows decelerate more uniformly from release to impact, hence the shallow impact angle. Whereas , the longer fletched arrows actually fly, (less deceleration) until they reach their terminal velocity at which point they fall out of the sky, hence the steeper impact. Keep up the informative and entertaining videos.

Great info Greg. Thanks for sharing.

Larger feathers will make more sound when they travel through the air. Nice video Greg, I enjoyed watching it.

Thank you Greg, like your testing system, very practical, I myself mix 'em up. I shoot barebow, stick & string. Also like to shoot wood! Enjoy it all!! Thank you again Sir!👍🏹

Love your vidios and testing like this thanks so much

Interesting and well done!!

always honest, always thinks of every angle he can, adjusts as he does the tests, and passes on what he learns, this is why I watch him, no one else does this, most others just say this or that is true because I heard a person say it, I like how he challenges himself to learn and pass on actual facts in data. good job Greg. we want more lol get that brain ticking over.

Good stuff mate, it would be interesting to see if with some more FOC and thus a bigger lever if that would make a difference? However I totally agree that it’s usually mostly the archer! I go with a four fletch 3 inch shield with a matching wrap for the main reason that they look cool!!

Thanks very much! I did same testing with a 50 lbs bow several years ago, with similar results. In theory the differences in max. shot lenght between 3 and 5 inch feather's should be bigger. Why this didn't show up in reality? In my opinion maybe there is more friction between air and feather surface on bigger feathers, but the bigger fletching stabilizes the arrow faster in flight. Especially the first few milliseconds the arrow wobbles much in flight and looses some energy due to this oscillating side to side movement. Until it's stable in flight. Bigger fletching = more air friction loss but less energy loss due to wobble, smaller fletching = less air friction loss but more energy loss with wobble. One seems to equal the other. Just my 2 cents. Keep up your great content!

Fletching depends on the point field point vs broad head. I use 4” for lighter broad heads up to 125 -130 grain. 5” for 150 grain and up. The field points it should matter that much for accuracy but would effect speed due to wind drag. Rule of thumb for broad heads the heavier the broad head needs to be matched up with longer fletching for flight stability.

Good info. Thank you.

Great topic ! I've used different lengths , shapes and arrow spacing . I found 4 fletch fights the wind best . My Black widow recurve and My Habu Vyperkhan bows use a 4 fletch 75/105 spacing with 4 " feathers . My D-longbows and other Hybrids, recurves use 3/120 with 4 " feathers . Wind bucking and silence are My greatest concerns as a Bow Hunter .

Thanks, good topic.

Hi Greg, that was really interesting. My basic knowledge/intuition would say that 5" feathers should stabilize the arrow quicker. My experience of shooting the English longbow (I'm in England) says that smaller feathers are better for distance, we start at 50yds then do 60, 80 and 100 yds, we even do clout shooting at 180yds, for that people use 2" cut down feathers on light arrows. I have now switched to field/3d using a recurve and a longbow, I am about to fletch my new arrows with 5" feathers for the shorter distances. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on that. I love watching your stuff Greg, I am learning a lot from a great archer. Thank you

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

Mark, There are so many factors in Archery, that making a blanket statement really is foolish. A few years back I called and talked to the engineers at Gold Tips and Easton. I was trying to understand what was going on, arrow wise. The biggest takeaways for me was; 1) It really depends on the type of archery you are doing. What might be a rule for one type, may not be for another. 2) For what I do, I do not shoot far enough (vast majority are 30 and under) or fast enough for many of those commonly accepted rules to apply. Since then what I have found is that a good form can make up for some issues in spine, weight, etc. Having proper tuned arrows, with good form, makes up for a ton. I will say that both group of engineers said that for shooting closer, they would want a larger feather. Then they added if the arrow is tuned right, you should not need them!

@guitarmanmark

3 жыл бұрын

Good point Greg, seems like I will be fine with 4 or 5" feathers for my Black Hunter. I'll take your advice on tuning as well. Many thanks

Great tests Greg, love this. It might be deceiving in the video, but it appears you chronographed fairly close. I' would love to see each chronographed at 10 and 20 yards. I'd also be interested to know if crosswind affected either of them more/less than the others. Love the videos. Nova Scotia, Canada

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

I really wasn't testing speed at a distance. But if there was a decent difference in speed, would it not have shown up on the long range shooting? In the testing that I have done, no matter what the arrow, I have noticed a significant drop in speed at 10 yards and s much slower decline in speed after that. Crosswind is impossible to test outdoors. That would have to be done indoors or a wind tunnel.

Thanks a lot to the archery myth buster.

Hard to see but it looks like all of your arrows are straight fletched - is that correct? It would be interesting to see the difference between straight and helical fletched. Also, very impressed with how you nail them at 40 yds. Does shooting wood shaft make much difference in your accuracy?

All we need is someone with yrs of experience like an old timer to tell us what HIS experience is with different fletchings and what is best in various situations etc, experience beats testing all day here!!!

@TradArchery101

Ай бұрын

Experience beats testing? Really? Experience said we would never fly, experience said we would never break the sound barrier, yet we did.

all things being equal, seems like going for 5inch bright feathers would be best to make finding arrows easier

@nicetryb0z0

Жыл бұрын

@Tim Richmond I put wraps on the front of my arrow. I like that it helps me visually line up the shot during the draw and adds color to the other end of the arrow to aid in finding buried arrows

That is a nice scarf on the wall.

Possibly the 4 & 5 inch feathers are generating more lift over the longer distances, giving a higher trajectory for the arrows.

Good stuff.I wonder if the bigger feathers would make more difference of you used arrows that properly tuned to your bow

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

Good question, while not "properly" tuned per se, They are tuned for this bow. Heck, I made this bow just for those arrows.

I like 5 inch shield cut. I think they look cool 😎

I'm thinking the longer feathers come into play helping stabilize flight with a less than perfect tuned bow..... a properly tuned bow can shoot any length of feather well.

Thanks, Greg! Good stuff.

Liking the Polish scarf in the back. Have you been around here in Poland?

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

NO, I have not. Got that from a Polish friend who shot with me when I was in Germany last year. Would love to go there though.

It's funny that you say, "it's all about me". That's the same way I feel about shooting rifles. 99% of the time it isn't the gun, it's me and my bad shooting. 🙂

You will see a reduction in speed with different fletching length down range. Due to the effects of wind drag. Your not going to see the effects as much point blank range.

Great test. Results are valid exept arrow speed, which were measured at the very begging of arrow travel. Speed loos would be more informative data.

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

The standard is six inches from the bow, which i agree is deceptive, but that is what people ue.

Hi! if the 3in arrow has a shorter trayectory, doesn't that mean that if you aim higher you will increase the distance?

@TradArchery101

2 жыл бұрын

To a point yes, waaay to many factors involved for a definitive answer.

For hunters sound and stability are more important that for target shooters,that being said shorter are quieter add helical for quicker stability and there you go.🏹🎯🤔🤯😉

I couldn't tell, was your arrows 3 or 4 fletchings per arrow. I wonder if that would make a difference in distance flight trajectory or speed.

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

All were four fletched.

@robertcollins8538

3 жыл бұрын

@@TradArchery101 thank you for your response. Is their a preference for four fletchings over three?

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

I use four only because they show up better on camera. Otherwise, I see no difference.

man, shooting in that right of way id lose half my arrows. LOL

I had the same "results" while shooting traditional.

I'm pretty sure that the new rule for the nfaa is a maximum of 50 yards for traditional

😎👍

Nice video ! Have you ever tried to speed test arrow comparing split finger / 3 under with sale arrow and same bow ? it could very intresting :)

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

No I have not, might do that though. Thanks.

@KarlVonMutten

3 жыл бұрын

@@TradArchery101 I’d love to know the results ! So I stay tuned ;) thanks

@chrisbowman2030

3 жыл бұрын

If the bow is tillered for split fingers, it would perform less with 3under. I tested this with an ILF bow. When adjusting the tiller for split fingers i shot through a chronograph. I set the tiller where the arrow speed was most, means the bow was performing best. This was also the setting where the bow was quietest. After that i shot 3under. The average arrow speed dropped an average of 2 fps and the bow was louder with more vibration. Bow used was Uukha Saiga Limbs and Sanlida Blackstone 19" riser with 41 lbs @28" draw.

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

@@chrisbowman2030 Is that true for all bows or just your ILF’s like you use? I have notice no real difference on speed with my one piece and takedown bows.

@KarlVonMutten

3 жыл бұрын

@@chrisbowman2030 very interesting ! Thanks a lot for taking time to realize the test :)

Very interesting...thanks for sharing. I wonder if broadheads would have a bigger difference?

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

Good question, I do not know

Lemme save you some time it doesn’t matter what size shape length the feathers are if you’re shooting the right spine arrows a bare shaft will fly like a dart

@DLB1858

10 ай бұрын

You are 100% correct, no use complicating things

What about if the fletch is taller vs shorter, vs spinning, vs straight ?

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

At the distance we shoot at (30 yards and under), how much affect could it have. Think about this, your arrow can travel at 180 fps, for example. That would mean it takes one third of a second to cover 20 yards. Less than half a second. How much will that affect something in flight for only .333 of a second?

I think you'd check the dynamic spine difference by measuring how different the impact point is left to right.

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

That would only apply if you had such great form that only the spine would cause that.

@DarxusC

3 жыл бұрын

@@TradArchery101 not if you do it enough that you can extract signal from the noise.

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

@@DarxusC And how would you know if what caused one shot to go left as opposed to the next? Then, you would have to take into account group sizes. The larger the group size, the harder to isolate the cause. That is why some use shooting machine to eliminate those outside influences.

@DarxusC

3 жыл бұрын

@@TradArchery101 Eh, if you shoot 100 arrows of each type, and the average impact point of one is an inch to the left of the other... I think that's probably a dynamic spine difference. It would be better if it was 100 different arrows with the same specs. And it could always be something else.

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

@@DarxusC Know How to do it, but why? How much of an impact would it have on the results? Not enough to make difference.

👍

How are you liking the predator 2 arrows?

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

Nice arrows. Great for indoor. Not the toughest though. Hit anything even semi-hard and you will damage them.

Fun

the fact that you are using 4 fletch might be important at some point.

what is the best arrows for hunting wild life?

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

Many factors to consider. Bow weight, animal hunted are just two

Seems like you would have to be further away from chronograph before the size difference would produce any results based on drag. I don't think they would be leaving the bow at all different speed. So the further the distance the greater the effect. As far as trajectory angle.. if you think of the fleching like a parachute.. the way it applies drag. At the rear of the arrow. The larger fletching will cause the tip to pivot down as the feltching slows the arrow. So larger fletching.. larger parachute.. steeper angle

@TradArchery101

Жыл бұрын

I did another test and found a big drop off in speed at 10 yards, but a much smaller and linear one after that out to 20. The hard part is getting the arrow over the device at 20 to get a good reading. The AMO standard for measuring a bow is to have the device I think 6 or 8" from the bow. The fletching does cause a steeper angle, but not for the reason you think. The increase in drag means a short parabolic trajectory, which forces the archers to left the bow up more to compensate.

Less fletch is less drag DOWN RANGE. Not right off the bow string.

I went from 2 inch to 3 inch sheild cut on skinny carbon arrows.. The 3 inch dropped short of the target by a foot at 30 yards.. The 2 inch hit the target every time but had less accuracy.. If I looked at the 3 inch arrows in the dirt they were tightly grouped..I bare shaft tuned beforehand to eliminate the feathers doing too much extra work.. 2 inch feathers are terrible for a bow that's not mechanically accurate like a horsebow, longbow... Probably work well with a Olympic style recurve.. I was pissed because I bought 100 of them and now will never use them..

In a heavy crosswind like a fall hunting condition or wet feathers the 5" becomes detrimental.

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

Shot in a down pour at an IBO event and shot pretty dang good. In this testing had a decent crosswind also. In my experience, 5" was not detrimental at all.

@tomellendorf7236

3 жыл бұрын

Check out the trad lab from the push. They did an extensive study on wind and wet feathers. Out of a machine.

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

@@tomellendorf7236 Know it well. Even that is unscientific (though really well done). Did each arrow have the same amount of cross wind? Nope. Did each arrow have the same amount of water on them? Nope.

Two fletching best of all

I think on the long distance you have more air under the feathers its either holding the arrow up longer or giving you lift as an airplane wing

Should of used a bare shaft ,also 👍

I’d like to see the chronograph put at the target rather than close to the place of the shot....

@TradArchery101

3 жыл бұрын

I understand your reason why, however that is easier said than done and most bodies, have it closer to than farther from. I have found a trend in my testing that no matter what the arrow, there is a appreciable drop off at 10 yards and then less so after that, in the range of 5 fps.

Chrono at 20 yards please.

F.o.c your 5 inch fletch shaft and mark it's balance point . Transfer from that mark to the other shafts add weight to them using tape so they all f.o.c the same.Now redo the test at a guess you have a 4/5 grain differance this will show at 20 yards plus ,your 5 inch fletch has more drag and more mass so it will fall at a steeper angle I,e drop off hence its digging in.At that distance don't take 4/5 drains for granted ......big mistake not to add fletch weight to a bare shaft.

@nicetryb0z0

Жыл бұрын

Hey man how do you add fletch weight to a bare shaft?

@FidelGomez-vn5hc

3 ай бұрын

Greg, heavey arrows with large cutting brodhead blades affect arrow flight and require larger feathers to correct, especially in hunting conditions, i.e., wind, rain, and the dreaded long shot in the wind. The real purpose of the feathers.

Some old archers awear by the angles of the fletch, saying that if their arrow spins it will be more accurate. I say, if it spins, it has more drag.

Polish flag? I mean sport scarf?

Hi, you made a big mistake in the testing. The speed you measured is initial speed of the arrows. You should measure the final speed (when arrow hit the target).

@TradArchery101

3 ай бұрын

Not a mistake, the accepted standard. AMO, which is now ATA. Has the industry standard of having the chronograph six inches in front of the bow.

@matthewy8923

3 ай бұрын

@@TradArchery101 You did make a big mistake. What you should be testing here is the final speed. Because the larger the feather, the greater the backward force it receives when flying in the air, the more speed it loses, and the slower its final speed. This is the effect of feather size on arrow speed. What you are measuring is the initial speed. The arrow has just been shot and the air resistance has not had much impact on it. Of course, the speed of the two arrows is the same. During the entire flight, the arrow becomes slower and slower due to the resistance of the air. When it reaches the end point, its speed has slowed down a lot. Arrows with larger feathers experience greater drag and are slowed down more. So only measuring the final speed of an arrow can show the effect of feather size on arrow speed. Therefore, the logic of your test is wrong, which leads to your conclusion being wrong. This requires knowledge of physics. I suggest you do this testing again.

@TradArchery101

3 ай бұрын

Not a mistake. Also there is no backward pressure. There is drag. Now how much drag is debatable. Studies have shown that arrow speeds are similar for hunting distances. Which is 20 yards and under. I have even tested this. I have also found out that the largest drop in speed is within the first 10 yards, after that, the decline in speed is much more gradual.