The projectile velocity should be included, as well as the casing around the EFP, however these were causing computational problems and had to be omitted. The composition of the EFP was also assumed as there was insufficient information available online. See the descrition for more details :)

@mr.waffentrager4400

9 ай бұрын

In war thunder I see small blocks named kontakt 5 or relikt in case of bvm on the turret, i think they might be more effective. I mean they look l lik ke k 1

@SYsimulations

9 ай бұрын

@@mr.waffentrager4400 they would be much more effective

@exploatores

9 ай бұрын

So what would a Bofors strix do with a T-72 with ERA. Would it penetrare the floor too

@dwwolf4636

9 ай бұрын

​​@@SYsimulationsWould an angled impact not be more indicative of actual performance ? No idea how your FEA software suite works but.... Could you work around the limitations by : modelling a simulation of a non moving STAFF EFP charge explosion vs air ( ie no target ) to get a decent idea of the shape of the EFP and velocity of the EFP after detonation. Then you model the shape of the EFP from SIM 1 and figure at an angle and speed by extrapolating a simple resultant angle and speed from a bit of pythagorean math for the final impact simulation. Initial assumptions of Vefp being 2 to 2.5 km/s And Vstaff ~ 1.350 km/s. Gives: impact angle~35 degrees from vertical and 2.4 km/s impact (from 2km/s Vefp) And 28 degrees from vertical impact with a 2.84km/s impact velocity ( Vefp = 2.5 km/s). From What I could see from literature Vefp near 2 km/s are more commonly described.

@TzunSu

9 ай бұрын

@@exploatores Considering a Javelin will punch through 600-800mm and the STRIX bomblets carry a lot more oomph, i think that would actually be decently likely.

I remember being a Tanker and wondering what STAFF stood for. They never removed the STAFF reticle in the GAS, so on every Abrams tank you'll see the STAFF reticle in the GAS but no other switch or control for it.

@polygonalfortress

9 ай бұрын

fascinating stuff

@SYsimulations

9 ай бұрын

Never realised it was that close to being implemented!

@NCSiebertdesign

9 ай бұрын

I remember something about STAFF in Amour Fist 3 game which I played as a young kid. Never had a second thought about it until I saw this video.

@jintsuubest9331

9 ай бұрын

Are you allow to disclose the difference of the tick mark on the reticle between m830a1 and staff?

@DukeWooze

9 ай бұрын

@@NCSiebertdesign First time I heard about it was in BF3 or 4 I used it once like a regular shell because I didn't read the description and thought it sucked. Used sabots ever since. Later I actually learned what a STAFF shell was and now I wish I could go back and try it out the right way.

Just imagine the rest of the Projectile stopping mid air until the explosion finished

@showdown66

9 ай бұрын

😂

@bladfadsfblaadsfsadf900

9 ай бұрын

Looney Tunes, but in real life

@user-yc1xe1pd1f

9 ай бұрын

Waiting for the penetrator to come back as a taxi and continue flight 😂

@AtomizerX

9 ай бұрын

It's very polite

@stephend50

9 ай бұрын

Tapping it's foot, like Buggs waiting for a package

Another advantage of STAFF would have been its ability to receive targeting data from friendly helicopters and UAVs. Thanks to the nature of the EFP, it could detonate much further away from the target than even this simulation depicts. Obviously many of the projectile's details are still classified, but it apparently worked pretty well and was only canceled thanks to the budget cuts of the late '90s, and the growing irrelevance of Russian armour.

@gotanon9659

9 ай бұрын

What killed it was the amount of friendly fire it will cause had it been fully implemented.

@stephenallen4635

8 ай бұрын

​@@gotanon9659in what kind of situation would one of these cause friendly fire where a dumb fire projectile wouldnt also?

@YesKistm

7 ай бұрын

Этот снаряд не мог хорошо работать, так как при пробитии остатки ударного ядра двигаются со скоростью около 400 метров в секунду, и это мало... Всё равно что из автомата стрелять внутрь танка. Посмотрите симуляции где бронебойные снаряды пробивают броню, огромное количество кинетической энергии остаётся в запасе

@TheKakan1337

3 ай бұрын

@@YesKistm Just take the L

@chesterhiggens

2 ай бұрын

yeah cause nato armour is performing so well in ukraine LOL!

That’s a turret popper right there

@Snifferoftheglue

9 ай бұрын

🎵 Pop goes the Bolshevik🎵

@SweatyFeetGirl

9 ай бұрын

​@@Snifferofthegluebritish and german tanks would suffer the same fate as seen right now 🤣

@ser43_OLDC

9 ай бұрын

I dont think so, the fragmentation is small and the amo has on top a 20mm plate and new tanks have also keblar. For that it is needed a bigger warhead

@Rory_Mercury

9 ай бұрын

1. You need to get into small areas of weak armor 2. You need to shoot before the Russians destroy you 3. Your hands will shake violently when you see tanks, helicopters, planes, artillery and infantry of the Russians aiming at you. There is a high probability that you are faking a fire and deserting the battlefield.

@Kevin-hx2ky

9 ай бұрын

@@SweatyFeetGirl If they get to the ammo and not get stopped by the commander or gunner (or loader), same as in a T-## tank

Lotta idiots in the comments. That's simulating Kontakt-1 ERA. Not dual-layer Kontakt-5 or Relikt or Duplet or anything used this side of 1990.

@Bialy_1

9 ай бұрын

And it would cause no difference... the bigest error here is the angle, projectile speed should result in a more perpendicular direction of the tantalum jet/projectile=cumulative jet more effective...

@RomanianReaver

9 ай бұрын

@@Bialy_1 Tell me you're an idiot without telling me you're an idiot. Kontakt-5 has plates going both ways (back, relative to the angle of the brick, and forwards) when it's tripped while Kontakt-1 is a simple contained explosive (like Blazer ERA) so the above EFP wouldn't even make a dent in the tank because it barely went through with Kontakt-1. Relikt would full stop it and Malachit or Kaktus wouldn't have any issues.

@RomanianReaver

9 ай бұрын

@@Bialy_1 Try again, less idiocy next time.

@artruisjoew5473

9 ай бұрын

You do realize all the ERA mentioned only works against kinetic projectile if they are mounted on an angle right? If it is flat, like on the turret, they don’t work. You can see this clearly with the relik being mounted in bags - it is there to hold it at an angle. Same reason K5s are mounted at the very front of tanks, it is there to protect against the front 30 degree arc. Anything past that it is kaput. Also not sure if K5 and relik can be mounted on the roof. Min safe thickness for those are significantly more than the K1.

@RomanianReaver

9 ай бұрын

@@artruisjoew5473 What is it with idiots? Relikt is tile based, bags are a derivative. EFPs are HEAT Good luck.

Could this theoretically hit a tank in full defilade so there is no direct line of sight to the tank?

@crispy_338

9 ай бұрын

Yes

@SYsimulations

9 ай бұрын

apparently so, but I'm not sure how effective its scanner would be in such a scenario

@seanmurphy7011

9 ай бұрын

The range finder is only to lay the gun in this case. The gunner would lase the ground in front of the fighting position. The sensor would work as normal.

@Klovaneer

6 ай бұрын

That is the actual use-case for EPF that are delivered by otherwise direct attack munitions, see also: TOW-2B. It didn't catch on because EFP just isn't that powerful to forsake a full fledged HEAT warhead. Other uses are side-attack mines and aerial cluster munitions where it's much more effective.

I'd be interested to see an EFP interact with "heavy" ERA like Relikt or Kontakt 5

@ThePandoraGuy

9 ай бұрын

Do the Ruskies put ERA on their tanks engine deck? Because that was supposed to be the main target for that ammo, right? The heart of the monster. Destroy the engine and you get a million dollar paperweight that goes nowhere.

@e-one6348

9 ай бұрын

@@ThePandoraGuy For the most part they do not, in the era of cope cages however there's probably 1 or 2 out there that have but there's not footage that I know of that shows ERA *on top of* the engine deck. Probably because they do not want to smother the engine.

@coolball999

9 ай бұрын

​@@ThePandoraGuyits still technically a threat even with the engine destroyed, most modern tanks (most okay?) Probably has a way to manually rotate the turret (obviously much slower than mechanism assisted, which would be useless with no engine to power it up) Not sure what loss of engine does to a Russian autoloader though.

@ThePandoraGuy

9 ай бұрын

@@coolball999 Yeah, they're still dangerous (of course). Don't think the onboard battery has enough juice to power the autoloader, so the gunner and/or commander have to load manually, which lowers the crews efficiency significant. Dangerous or not, if my tank stucks in the middle of a combat zone without juice or working hydraulics, i better leave that bitch. A tank is a bullet magnet after all. A dead tank is a bullet magnet with benefits.

@Fred_the_1996

9 ай бұрын

@@ThePandoraGuy their main priority is the crew, they havent been protecting the engine much

Incredibly interesting, thank you for this one

Please do a video on the process of creating these videos! Would love to see a walkthrough of the software and process behind it.

Impressive. Very nice. Let's see how it fares against K-5 that was already in service.

Thanks, I wanted to see how top attack missiles pen armor

@MPI1000

9 ай бұрын

There are different ways other than this though. The NLAW and RBS56 BILL uses a jet forming HEAT warhead, with a tandem warhead in the BILL2. TOW-2B uses EFP like in the video, as does the variety of artillery delivered top attack munitions like BONUS and SMArt.

Well done gettng the EFP to form correctly!

Thank you, very cool

It's so odd and unfortunate that we are finally getting the tank war the generals were expecting when this munition was developed.

@isthisahashtag

8 ай бұрын

??? The NLAW has been very successful and is essentially this

I loved using the STAFF in M1 Tank Platoon 2 game from microprose from the 90s, you only got 4 rounds so I usually saved them for T-90s

Memories of M1TP2!

I wasn't sure at first but I think I like this sensual voice over you've added. Another excellent video SY, thank you

thanks

Well it wasn’t cancelled just because of the cost I bet, because Kontact 5 was being fielded in what, 83-84? So they put that on everything and it have over 25x the original kinetic protection

@artruisjoew5473

9 ай бұрын

K5 need to be mounted at about 30 degrees from the threat for them to be effective. If it is flat against the threat they are just a flat metal plate and it’s effect drops off drastically, so K5 won’t really make a difference on the roof.

@stephenallen4635

8 ай бұрын

Just because you think of other reasons why something might be doesnt actually make it true

@uniquescorpions4802

8 ай бұрын

@@stephenallen4635 it seems far more logical than the argument of the video

@uniquescorpions4802

8 ай бұрын

@@artruisjoew5473 ERA is not just a flat metal plate lmao Explosive-Reactive-Armor Also “K5” or Kontact 5 was fielding around 160mm of protection against Kennetic and I believe about 440 for HEAT at the time, couple that with the roof armor which is 30mm you’ll be looking at an overall armor effectiveness of almost 200mm depending on which part of the roof is struck

@localdrugseller6431

4 ай бұрын

​@@uniquescorpions4802ERA can not provide a fixed protection value like that. It depends on many factors like the material sabot is made of its muzzle velocity its dimensions and angle. Flyer plate ERAs like K-5 and Relikt need to be mounted in angle to be effective. Otherwise they will just provide protection as much as its thickness.

In this case a cage on top of the tank would be very effective. Round would smash into the side of the cage and ruin the electronics before it detonated. Either that or it would detonate higher, the efp would possibly hit the cage and then break up before hitting the ERA. Would be interesting to see this scenario if you can model it. I've also seen some Russian tanks with cages covered with ERA as well, that would also be an interesting simulation, K5 era+ 5mm mild steel, 1 meter air gap, K5 and finally the roof armor. Final note is that this like most top attack munitions suffer from the same common issues, price and accuracy. Usually by the time you calculate the amount of kills they achieve they're about as expensive as the tank they're trying to hit. Under ideal conditions a javelin has around a 80% accuracy, when used under actual combat conditions (smoke, panicking/under trained crews, longer ranges, clutter, multiple other destroyed vehicles in area, evening/morning thermals) the accuracy quickly drops below 50%. Then you have to account for soldiers wasting them on bunkers, lightly armored vehicles, systems destroyed before they got a chance to launch either on the frontlines or during missile strikes on storages. The you need to account for the fact that 50% of hits won't even be a kill, I've seen a javelin hit an engine compartment, where the crew bailed and the tank was possibly recovered afterwards. So at the end of the day you need around 6 javelins to destroy a single tank. Which is why there's like 1-2 videos from two years of fighting in Ukraine with actual tank kills with hundreds if not thousands of missiles sent to Ukraine. Even the US army equips only a tiny fraction of their forces with javelins. Too expensive. It's a propaganda weapon more than anything else. You tell the soldiers on the frontlines that we have javelins and himars and leopards 2a6s and Bradley and when the soldier gets there he's given an AK and a shovel to dig trenches...

@oim8254

9 ай бұрын

I am pretty sure even if 10 missiles are needed to kill a tank, the total cost of said 10 missiles will always be cheaper than that of said tank. The cost advantage will always be in favor of anti-tank missiles. Tanks will inevitably be replaced by AI-guided FPV drone swarms.

@antimatter4733

9 ай бұрын

@@oim8254 nope, a javelin costs around $250 000 per missile and around $250 000 for the CLU. So at a ratio of around 6 missiles and 2 CLU per tank destroyed that's around 2 million dollars to destroy a tank. A modern t72b3M costs around 1.5 million dollars.

@StandingHereI

5 ай бұрын

​@@oim8254but there is a small nuance, my friend. the first drones with artificial intelligence appeared in Russia, and soon there will be swarms of FPV drones. This is such a backward Russia

@AdotLOM

2 ай бұрын

@@StandingHereI this is one thing that the war has exposed about western assumptions about combating Russian armor - they hopelessly idealized everything, package and cherry-pick and then get surprised when Ukraine loses 10x the troops that Russia does.

Eu amo seus vídeos, faz mais sobre segunda guerra

Besides your videos being incredibly interesting both due to the ideas shown there and very interesting information being presented via text/voice, you should also try more voice acting. Your calm and very nice sounding voice would be amazing for some longer videos, discussing many topics. You can make videos about whole projectiles' history and with multiple simulations for various situations it would sound and look amazing!

@jintsuubest9331

9 ай бұрын

That voice is computer generated afaik.

@SYsimulations

9 ай бұрын

Thanks, its AI actually, but I simply dont have the time for such a thing unfortunately

@stephenallen4635

9 ай бұрын

Hahah dude its ai tts

An APS that could stop HEAT shells may stop this if the trajectory is right and the velocities line up. EFP carriers are wild.

You Should try against Kontact 5, it is more of a kinetic round, Kontact 1 is ineffective against it.

@SYsimulations

9 ай бұрын

yep, definitely something for the future, maybe not the same shell again though

@MarcinP2

9 ай бұрын

K5 is supposed to deform long penetrators so I expect not much difference.

@Kill4Time255

9 ай бұрын

@@SYsimulations tow2b or bill2 maybe

How much time did it take to process this simulation???

"Top attack broken, please nerf" - Russia probably

@gulaggg_

9 ай бұрын

"Nato bias" -Russia

@deemwinch

9 ай бұрын

"just like a video gaym, so funni haha" - A manchild in a comment section

@KY-qx9ip

9 ай бұрын

“Stalinium strung, western propaganda”

@ser43_OLDC

9 ай бұрын

Top attack is universal for all, and more for nato tanks that have weeker roof than soviet/russian ones. If any nato tank gets hit by RBK500 bombs with SPBE-D munition or a PTKM-1R will suffer the same fate as the Iraqi tanks in the Gulf War hit by CBU 97 bombs

@weatengoungato

9 ай бұрын

​@@ser43_OLDC20 mm for the leopard 2...

Wow i expected it to penetrate but not that easily, you should do an NLAW in top attack mode against the roof of the t-72/t-90 with kontakt-1/5, would be intresting to see how more conventional (I guess?) top attack projectile would do.

@LolTollhurst

9 ай бұрын

I'm pretty sure we know that those work fine

@Rory_Mercury

9 ай бұрын

We checked the captured grenade launcher at the training ground. It easily penetrates thin upper armor. Therefore, our soldiers are happy to use these grenade launchers. They captured a lot.

@kappatwn6307

9 ай бұрын

​@@LolTollhurst yeah i know just thought it was intresting to compare the two

which software you use???

You should try this again but with K5 instead

Do you have a video of comparison steel vs same weight modern armour? I always wondered how much better it is.

@jintsuubest9331

9 ай бұрын

You are going have to define what "modern composite armor" is with the threat for a meaningful answer.

Similar principle to NLAW - which works quite well.

What's the penetration of an EFP resulting from such a projectile? 100mm or more? Just enough when employed as a top attack against roof armor at ~40mm? In between?

@Bialy_1

9 ай бұрын

"roof armor at ~40mm?" Like in a super heavy German Mouse tank? I expect it to be over 150mm of penetration and be able to pen the front armor...

It is interesting that they called it “Fire and forget” With most rounds the gunners would aim at the target and fire and with XM943 the same thing so why they called it FF ?

@jintsuubest9331

9 ай бұрын

Because this can be employed like other ff munition and required no los.

@artruisjoew5473

9 ай бұрын

Because this is not a shell. This is a guided ATGM that doesn’t have a motor.

@sadlerbw9

7 ай бұрын

Given the time it was being developed, this was probably meant more as a comparison to anti-tank missiles which required continued guidance from an outside source to hit their target. As another commenter mentioned, this really is just an ATGM that is fired from a gun barrel rather than having a rocket motor. I do admit it is kinda funny that the dumbest of the dumb projectiles are also technically fire and forget.

The shell would not stay still when ejecting the bullet. You have to consider the inertial speed, which you didn't.

@stephenallen4635

8 ай бұрын

Yeah no shit dude you think your sherlock holmes over here? It barely makes any difference

sorry what is the name of this simulation app

Do the Hellfire Romeo's selectable effect warhead

K-5 or Relikt?

It looks like it help a lot but not enough. What if ERA would be highier or double?

Clever

can do OFL F1 vs T-80BVM frontal plate?

Does this shell sensors works in battlefield area full of metal wreckage around the target like in city battle not exploded before reaching the target or this kind shell only works in empty field without any metal wrackage around the tank?

@Bialy_1

9 ай бұрын

You have a lasser to find the range of your target and i expect that this range is preloaded to the onboard electronics so it is propably searching for a vehicle size metal object in a very specific area and aiming for the center of the mass or 1 meter infront of it.

@telurkucing5006

9 ай бұрын

@@Bialy_1 so if shell fly over the metal wreckage before reach the target it wouldnt exploded?

@stephenallen4635

8 ай бұрын

​@@telurkucing5006probably not . I would guess that the hundreds of people working on this shell design did in fact think about objects being present along its flight path

@telurkucing5006

8 ай бұрын

@@stephenallen4635 thanks I thought before lot of big metal debris can somehow disturb the sensor and make it explode before hit the real target

Traditional rounds spin, even fin stabilized rounds like APFSDS and HEAT-FS use the fins to generate spin. Does this round just not spin and have orthogonal fins rather than slightly canted ones?

@MrMrsirr

9 ай бұрын

I'm wondering if the EFP charge can actually rotate inside the shell and has a way to stay pointing down; even if the round doesn't spin, when it's loaded into the gun it's not going to always be in the same orientation unless there's some indexing mark on the cartridge or something, so I would think it would have to be able to compensate.

@stephenallen4635

8 ай бұрын

It could be that the rate of spin is high enough that at some point it will be facing down towards the target regardless

can you try this with kontakt5?

How much more expensive is tantalum then copper?

Do a makeshift kontakt1 era by adding another 20mm plate on top of it, and compare

I wonder how the sensor will distinguish the roof from the frontal armor of the hull, for example.

@ryssa2409

9 ай бұрын

it doesn't

@doktork3406

9 ай бұрын

I'd expect it to have delayed action. Knowing your speed and sensing metal (or losing radar contact), you can just delay the detonation for about 2-3 more meters i reckon

@jintsuubest9331

9 ай бұрын

You know you are looking at a box. The box has, in general, 2 zone. The very hot back zone, and comparatively cold rest of the vehicle. You know the dimension of those zone. Now it becomes a beginner coding problem.

@ryssa2409

9 ай бұрын

@@jintsuubest9331 it's actually just a random fuze delay designed to detonate roughly over the tank in no particular spot

@AVPozdeev

9 ай бұрын

@@doktork3406 Delayed action is good. But it does not guarantee at all, that the ammunition will explode over the most vulnerable place. Because the tank can stand in different ways.

How to make this simulations?

This makes me wonder, does roof mounted ERA actually make the situation inside the vehicle worse for the crew in the event of a top attack penetration?

@jintsuubest9331

9 ай бұрын

Whats the logic there?

@SYsimulations

9 ай бұрын

Not sure, if it penetrates in the first place its a bad day regardless

@sturmgeschutze3070

9 ай бұрын

@@jintsuubest9331More spalling perhaps?

@zhufortheimpaler4041

9 ай бұрын

@@sturmgeschutze3070 only if the armor carrying the ERA is in general too thin for the ERA

@sturmgeschutze3070

9 ай бұрын

@@zhufortheimpaler4041 Which it may well be on the roof

these things were deadly in bf4

what kind of program

Desconoce el efecto de la explosión sobre el proyectil.😅

Jesus, it’s like it didn’t even notice the ERA

Another rumor I heard behind it's cancellation was the anticipation of hard-kill Active Protection becoming more common.

@localdrugseller6431

4 ай бұрын

They didnt keep the budget of Russian army in mind. A single unit of hard kill APS costs over a million dollars to produce.

@revolverswitch

4 ай бұрын

@@localdrugseller6431 all the more reason to not abandon staff rounds lol

cool

I wonder how the TOW 2B stacks up againts this.

I always wondered how that scanner works .

@jintsuubest9331

9 ай бұрын

It is just a radar.

@02suraditpengsaeng41

8 ай бұрын

Fire and Forget IR

How about Relikt?

I wonder how long it'll be until we see tanks with electric capacitor ERA on tanks, and be able to simulate it lol

Tear drop of God.

Can you make a video about the SPBE-D submunition against the roof of a tank?

What’s the advantage of this being fired out of a tank main gun vs just as a missile?

@honk5468

6 ай бұрын

a tank can carry rounds dependant on its role and switch them out as needed, while missiles are much more expensive and usually very specific use case

It do what it do.

How does the projectile orients perfectly while spinning in the air?

@enginerikli5895

9 ай бұрын

Maybe it doesn't. And maybe it was the reason it's cancelled.

@fabiomasellis8132

9 ай бұрын

@@enginerikli5895 maybe you're right, too many things cramped in a single projectile. Too complicated to Mass produce perhaps. Even if the US has that super anti armor cluster bomb with self aiming munitions.

@billwhoever2830

9 ай бұрын

tanks have smoothbore barrels, the round is not rotating, its fin stabilized. Some APFSDS rounds do get some spin from their fins for extra stability but this round is clearly not gona spin by design. Cant find much info about it but there might be some method to stabilize it like a gyroscope, to prevent any spin. The loader has to load the round the correct way up for all this to work.

@stephenallen4635

8 ай бұрын

If it did spin it might be that at some point passing over the tank it would be facing directly downwards. But who said it spins?

@fabiomasellis8132

8 ай бұрын

@@stephenallen4635 i think It spins like other discarding sabot projectiles. Also, even if It doesnt spin, you have to load the round in a specific manner to hit the target with the shaped charge

in theory is every weapon good, in practice how ever

And now we have NLAW and rbs56 Bill 2.

FGM-148 JAVALIN please

into warthunder when?

battlefield 4 moment

Soon we will need Maus tanks with 10 layers of era to have a functional tank..

So is this a heat projectile or a EFP?

@SYsimulations

9 ай бұрын

EFP, heat would be a hypersonic jet

@joenuts5167

9 ай бұрын

@@SYsimulations makes sense. Just a giant slug lol relikt or duplat/nozh might help but still that’s tough

@artruisjoew5473

9 ай бұрын

@@joenuts5167actually it is not clear if existing K5 and relik will even detonate by a slug with ~150mm penetration, since they are also not supposed to be detonated by small caliber APFSDS with similar pen characteristics.

At one is more up to date rather than the excessive WW2 simulations pre 2022 , there again the lack of such incidents in any real way 1945 - 2022 might be a reason

@stephenallen4635

8 ай бұрын

What

@charlesburgoyne-probyn6044

8 ай бұрын

@@stephenallen4635 it had plenty of hypothetical ww2 projectiles and targets

Soooo..... They invented a cannon.... that can be fired from a cannon?

Would be cool if war thunder added this ❤❤

Would it not make more sense if the efp is pointed forward, like how javelin is? I would assume it is easier to point it forward than keeping a side pointing downward?

@SYsimulations

9 ай бұрын

Thats basically how normal HEAT ammunition is (but unguided of course), however 120mm HEAT cant deal with composite armour + ERA effectively, so you need to hit it from above. However its a tank shell at relatively high velocity, so it cant have that much of an arc, or the time to manoeuver, so it needs to fly above the target horizontally, hence the downward arrangement. Its also too hard to guarantee how high up it detonates, so and EFP is used instead of a normal shaped charge

@MarcinP2

9 ай бұрын

With Javelin they really wanted the direct attack mode to work as it was supposed to be the only antitank weapon they would carry. So it has an overbuilt warhead and the top attack is just to make sure.

@stephenallen4635

8 ай бұрын

How do you suppose it would hit top down if the projectile was facing forward?

How about krasnopol shell on challenger 2 turret roof wink wink

@icolor7215

9 ай бұрын

russia will be dead by the time they destroy some western tech

@somerandomboibackup6086

9 ай бұрын

Same fate as 155mm on T72 roof, no difference basically

@nks406

9 ай бұрын

@@somerandomboibackup6086 i have yet to see even a t-64 having half of its roof collased

@ikedew8264

9 ай бұрын

@@nks406no cuz it’s roof along with the turret will be flung into the air

@nks406

9 ай бұрын

@@ikedew8264 The chally that got blown u recently has its turret dislocated lmao

Why does nobody produce heavily armored tanks these days? Surely with modern technology and composite armor you can make heavily armored tanks on all sides with acceptable mobility, You'd think its a no brainer given modern weaponry and drones. Clearly think roofs are just not an option anymore, so why are they still so weakly armored?

@jeffkardosjr.3825

2 ай бұрын

Well it seems militaries should be taking active protection systems more seriously. Maybe even automatic detectors that jam drones or have have radar auto aim the roof MG to the drone.

@RocketPal

Ай бұрын

Germans tried doing that in late WW2 with their Maus tank. It was slow and could be easily destroyed by aircraft.

@itsbetty8737

Ай бұрын

@@RocketPal that was a meme tank, it was never even finished, they didn't have composite back then only steel, steel is heavy af

breech is yellow

Такое ощущение, что кумулятивная струя развивает такую скорость и контакт 1 не успевает нормально среагировать и создать контрвзрыв

@osmanuzdenov9543

9 ай бұрын

Это не струя это ударное ядро

This could become relevant again IF Russia is able to field the t14 anytime soon.

@AdotLOM

2 ай бұрын

depends on how high above the tank the shell can detonate, if not by much then this would still enter the APS detection zone

That perfomance is insane! Holy shit

@SYsimulations

9 ай бұрын

better than I expected tbh, but not much residual penetration power is left over

As we can see, Kontakt-1 is innefective when anything hits it flat and there is thin armor after it

@user-hz4ky8js2n

9 ай бұрын

K1 is really just slightly better than cage armor, as it can stop very small caliber, non-tandem Shaped Charges like RPG-7 and a couple others. In this sense, it is helpful to have it (the Ukrainians mount it on Leopard2A4s which weren't designed for it). I wonder if an entire strata of K1 tired together would make a difference, like-- 3 bricks placed over each other. K5 at the time, back in the 80's was phenomenal-- and even now it's a good choice, compared to Kontakt 1.

@juusolatva

9 ай бұрын

the bigger mass of the EFP also has a lot to do with the ineffectiveness of ERA

@kajetus0688

9 ай бұрын

@@user-hz4ky8js2n how about kontakt 5 on leopard 2?

@user-hz4ky8js2n

9 ай бұрын

@@kajetus0688 haven't seen that, yet. Probably the Ukrainian E.R.A. stocks have much more K1, and only very little K5-- but it would really increase protection ,especially on the sides, and even on the front-- if angled properly.

That is the tiniest penetrator I have seen, good luck designing roof armor to stop it.

I want this in War Thunder, plz gayjin

war thunder says no

Algorithm.

Это теория. Идея хорошая. Есть видео испытаний таких снарядов?

This one is definitely bogus. It's a glorified piece of "shrapnel". Most of the energy doesn't even contact the vehicle at all. Why would ERA not work here? If it doesn't work here, where does it work? "Slow" velocity rockets?

cCc

Imagine it in war thunder for US. 10mm of pen (It cAn StIlL pEn LiGht TaNkS!1!!11!) 🤡

As a russian, I will say: this video looks quite funny against the background of the destroyed Challenger tank.

@Pixilated

9 ай бұрын

I will say: this comment looks quite funny against the background of the 2000+ destroyed russian tanks we have visually confirmed and idependantly verified.

@Pixilated

9 ай бұрын

how far russians have fallen celebrating the destruction of one old tank.

@cheshirecat2046

9 ай бұрын

@@Pixilated Do you understand that the Ukrainians suffered more tank losses? These losses are so great that NATO (and this is 31 countries) is pouring in an unrealistically huge amount of money (more than 150 bil?) and its western equipment. You say the british tank is old? But after all, the british ministry of defense says that their tanks are the best - not a single loss from the enemy in all the conflicts in which these tanks participated =). So it turns out that britain has has rusty and unusable stuf for war? Recently, everyone was jerking off to german leopards, but as soon as the first combat losses appeared, everyone also screamed, they say it doesn't mean anything)... oh, these "western" "experts"))))... 31 countries + Ukraine can't do anything with Russian Federation alone... how are you going to compete with the Chinese in general? This is a rhetorical question;).

@Pixilated

9 ай бұрын

​@@cheshirecat2046 Ukraine physically cant take more losses as they never had 2000 tanks and you aren't fighting nato. you are fighting the 100+ tanks they sent and you are struggling so bad that you are boasting that you killed a single 30-year-old tank with artillery. you should listen to mainstream media about tanks. Nice ruble by the way :)

@Pixilated

9 ай бұрын

@@cheshirecat2046 also all the stuff being sent is from deep reserve or mothball. they actually save the taxpayer money.

Such projectiles are shown to be rather impractical. Its much harder to aim it, while each shot is expensive. A Russian guy from Donbass tried firing trophey NLAW (which he bought for $20k) to an old Russian tank, using all the available instructions and manuals. First time - a total miss. So he had to buy another one. Second time - a hit, but not exactly where he aimed for (the engine instead of a turret). And it was in perfect conditions, without stress of the tank firing back. And another factor, aside from horisontal velocity, an angle towards the surface should be taken into account as well. Considering the trajectory, the projectile will never hit the armor under the straight angle.

@a.t6066

9 ай бұрын

He was also the guy who let the recoil smack him in the face.... that tells you all you need to know about how qualified he is

@VadimCC

9 ай бұрын

@@a.t6066 Yeah, from polish-made handheld grande launcher. Yet another prove why Poland cannot and should not into space))

@sting2death2

9 ай бұрын

You're referring to "Крупнокалиберный переполох" or High-caliber mayhem right?

@xendk

9 ай бұрын

Russians are idiots that is why they can not use advanced stuff

@stephenallen4635

8 ай бұрын

I don't think a Russian person not being able to use weapons properly has anything to do with the weapons themselves

В мультиках и симуляциях вы прям побеждаете постоянно Русские танки!на деле же, леопарды валяются в полях, абрамсы вообще никто не видел! Великая армия НАТО просто обосралась!

@ashtray2294

4 ай бұрын

No one has seen T-14 either, where is it?🤡 How many Russian tanks have been destroyed in TWO YEARS of war? You can't comprehend the number

@idontlikecommunists9677

Ай бұрын

​@@ashtray2294120% of their prewar fleet by now if I'm not mistaken

Do the modernized t-72s have a drain in the floor, to hose out the crews afterwards? Just kidding of course not. Russia doesn't recover tanks.

@AdotLOM

2 ай бұрын

Recovering crew is a lot more important than recovering a tank, and if crew is dead then you can't really recover them. Or should the Russians resort to desperately sending multiple recovery vehicles to recover a destroyed tank while a drone is waiting to take those out too? It's real easy to talk shit behind a screen, so why don't you go to Ukraine and see how fun it is to drive a Leopard 2 to the frontline?

Remember, too, that a lot of the russian ERA is filled, not with explosive, but with corrugated cardboard, or even rubber.

@honk5468

6 ай бұрын

no, theyre filled with explosives

@tacfoley4443

6 ай бұрын

We saw on may tanks in Ukraine that had been taken out that MANY of them were NOT filled with explosives, but with cardboard or rubber - instances of manufacturing scam#s to save money on military contracts. We know that they are MEANT to be explosives-filled, but they are not.

@jeffkardosjr.3825

2 ай бұрын

​@@tacfoley4443 More likely the Zelenski troops themselves took the explosive elements out of a disabled tank, then recorded afterwards and said "haha look how stupid Russians are".

@AdotLOM

2 ай бұрын

@@honk5468 This war has brought out all the vicious pettiness that these people wouldn't be spewing if they actually had to fight the Russians in Europe, I bet the average mobilized Ukrainian from the frontline would love to hear them be so jovial about the war to their faces

@honk5468

2 ай бұрын

@@AdotLOM the fuck are you talking about

Pretty pointless design no wonder it got cancelled. Nowadays its all about NLOS capabilities.

Как всегда ничего общего с реальностью...

@ashtray2294

4 ай бұрын

You don't like reality so you cope

Basically its copper which is made into a shape charge ,all shape charges are copper filled, at least thats what i was told by a company i worked for and the engineer who explained it to me, told me ,you could use normal silly puddy to place the shape charge on any metal surface and when it exploded it can go through any thickness of any grade of armored steel ,it comes down to the type of charge used and the amount of copper used? 🦘🦘✌✌👍👍👌👌

Сегодня челенджер 2 сожгли, говорили неподбиваемый )))

@Spectre4490

9 ай бұрын

А сколько Т-72Б3 и Т-90М уже сожжено?

@thezig2078

9 ай бұрын

No one ever said it's undefeated. Only Russian propagandists created a myth, only to flex how they busted it.

@Spectre4490

9 ай бұрын

@@avraamavramovich ты перепутал "непробиваемый" и "неподбиваемый" Не смотри таких экспертов которые несут х*ню и все Вот что пишут РосСМИ: >"«Уралвагонзавод» показал производство новейшего непробиваемого танка" >"В войска стали поступать "непробиваемые" Т-72Б3М" Найди 10 отличий, как говорится

@Spectre4490

9 ай бұрын

@@avraamavramovich человек вкинул фейк, так как ни одной статьи нет про "неподбиваемый челенжер" в гугле нет, не стоит отвечать на фейки )

@CJIABuK77

9 ай бұрын

@@Spectre4490 в сто раз меньше т64 ))

Would’ve totally been green lighted during the Cold War