I find extremely funny that Minsc and Boo became a control tool in non commander formats

I'd argue the entire Initiative mechanic, not just Dungeoneer, should be number 2 as even the commons warped Pauper until they got banned shortly after.

@connorhamilton5707

Жыл бұрын

Not all of the common Initiative cards are banned in Pauper, 3 of the 7 are still legal. The remaining 3 are either 5 mana or aren't a creature that could help protect the Initiative.

@tabiasgrafton9590

Жыл бұрын

They only warped pauper because dark ritual is still legal

@baconsir1159

Жыл бұрын

The 4-drop creatures at least, there are still 5 drop creatures and a 4-drop non-creature

@66bloodmoon

Жыл бұрын

I'm sooo confused

@Ixidora

Жыл бұрын

Initiative just got banned out of legacy... Just a footnote in history.

A point about flusterstorm - it was mentioned that counterspells are pretty bad at stopping storm spells, but this extends to flusterstorm. Other counterspells are going to have a bad time countering a flusterstorm, which makes it fairly strong in counter wars where both players play a lot of counterspells. It's very good at stopping most instant or sorceries involved in combos, because they can't counter your counter to protect their combo.

@Metallicity

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, Flusterstorm doesn't see play to beat Storm decks, it sees play because it flat out wins counter wars when basically every other counterspell is stuck trading card-for-card. Vintage has Tinker, Ancestral Recall, Paradoxical Outcome, plenty of instants/sorceries scarier than whatever storm finisher of choice, and all Flusterstorm asks of you is to hold up a single blue mana to stop you from losing the game.

Wow. I actually did not know that Scooze was originally printed for Commander. I could have sworn it was from a core set.

@corey2232

Жыл бұрын

The core set was the first reprint of it, which people were hugely excited for. Until that point, it was super annoying how expensive it was if you couldn't track down Commander Precons for a Legacy staple

@dstreetz91

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I was there when it was first printed in the first commander decks ever made. They were scarce and hard to find same with flusterstorm and in quite high demand because scooze is just a good utility card with so many graveyard things happening in legacy.

@loserofthegame2

Жыл бұрын

I was there Gandalf; I was there 3000 years ago.....

@drbeetheemighty

Жыл бұрын

This comment made me feel old 😆

As someone who's never played mtg, Seasoned Dungeoneer was kinda nuts to me in just how stacked it was. Felt like it just kept going on and on.

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

Yeah that effect is really above rate

@piercearora7681

Жыл бұрын

@@williamdrum9899 Its one of those cards they just put too much text on, like Questing Beast

@setin1956

Жыл бұрын

@@williamdrum9899You could take the top half or the bottom half of the abilities and either would still be playable

@benturtl9076

Жыл бұрын

Thats not a lot of text lol

@Hunted0LessShirt

Жыл бұрын

@@benturtl9076 It is a lot of implied text though, magic formatting helps a fair bit; to explain what it does on a Yugioh card for example would be near impossible. To understand Seasoned Dungeoneer, you have to learn how Initiative, Venturing and Dungeons work and The Undercity specifically expects you to understand Scry, Goad, Treasure, Menace and Hexproof (variously complicated/wordy abilities). Then it's attack trigger asks you to learn Protection (a particularly nuanced keyword) and Explore as well, which is luckily explained in the reminder text but is nonetheless pretty specific. Point is, in a real game you have to read this card and multiple tokens numerous times depending on the game state. For all this, I expect most people playing against it the first time don't expect a 4 mana 3/4 in white to deal them 14+ unblockable damage within a few turns while tutoring a land, giving card selection and whatever else you need it to do at the time. At least Questing Beast only does what it says on the card XD

A very cool anecdote from my experience at PT Kaladesh. I was one of the 4 Top Miracles players who top 8d GP Columbus in 2016. At the PT I was talking to a lead designer during the final day of competition and I asked him what they were thinking when designing Sanctum Prelate - and he told me, it was the intention for white weenie to act as a foil to Miracles in Legacy. They printed Sanctum Prelate to be a maindeckable DNT card to crush Miracles alongside other powerful DNT cards like Recruiter of the Guard. A year later, Miracles was still the top dog of the format and despite these new cards being very annoying - they didn't change the DNT/Miracles match-up that significantly and Top eventually got banned regardless.

@every1elsebutme

Жыл бұрын

I'm sure this is some form of English but I have no idea what you're saying.

@notabene9804

Жыл бұрын

I understand enough of this to know this is another chapter in Dev missing the mark by shooting past the target. Most of WotC's biggest development mistakes always begin with "The intended design..." which makes you wonder if this isnt always a prelude to some tunnel visioned idea. It's the same thing that makes useless cards, tho, and also cards that are objectively broken; Serra Paragon was a recent card that could not work rules as written because of how triggers work on exile and it smacks of crossover with the digital only mechanic Perpetual. Development intentions are hard to keep coherent, concise, and in compliment with other parrallel dev cycles, so it's, say it with me now, *management's fault* !!! Thank you for your insight on this matter, and to the dev who respects players enough to give it to them str8.

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

@@every1elsebutme Person played powerful deck, asked game designer what this card was made for, said it was to counter your deck, failed miserably

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

@@notabene9804 Huh, I read Serra Paragon's effect and it didn't seem that unusual to me. I guess it's one of those things like Animate Dead where the concept is simple but nearly impossible to phrase in Magic-ese due to the way the game works

@ninjanoodle2674

Жыл бұрын

DNT = Death aNd Taxes which is a mono-white deck that plays cards like Thalia, Leonin Arbiter, Ghost Quarter, etc. to make the opponents mana situation miserable while pumping out threats with Aether Vial.

Cannoneer 8 cast is honestly the most fun I have in legacy. There is something really fun about vomiting 32 cards into public zones, mostly by just casting them, by turn 3. I've lost games because my turtles were all 30+ deep and still had a blast playing all my cards looking for it.

Honorable mention to palace jailer, it never broke the format, and lately dindn't do much, but with the rise of initiative decks it started to pop up again, and god is this card good

I think a massive over look value here in Toxic Deluge is the surgical nature of it. While obviously more common in EDH, it's important to be aware of the fact in any format that if you any creatures with the highest toughness, a almost one sided boardwipe is backbreaking.

Minsc and Boo is such a strong card. No other 4 mana planeswalker offers such immediate value. Especially when it makes a 4/4 Trample, Haste on entry putting it to 4 loyalty

@StarshadowMelody

Жыл бұрын

Miniature Giant Space Hamster!

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

Funnily enough since it has an ETB trigger, your opponent can remove it before it can activate a loyalty ability, something that can't be said about any other planeswalker.

@williamw8590

Жыл бұрын

@William Drum yeah it's funny cuz the card would almost be WORSE in modern where almost every deck runs lightning bolts and leyline bindings lol, but legacy is so short on removal

@dstreetz91

Жыл бұрын

Eh, legacy has UR delver still at #1 in the format and it runs 4 bolts. Bolt has seen extensive legacy play as far back as the inception of the format when canadian threshold was one of the popular decks and a predecessor to UR delver.

It's probably pure coincidence, but I can't help thinking Kappa Cannoneer's look is Blastoise inspired. It's Mega Blastoise if you remove the arm cannons. With that Boo card, getting wrecked by a homicidal hamster has to be an embarrassing way to lose.

I think a special mention should have been given to the common initiative cards as a whole as they suddenly burst into pauper and took over. The funny thing is that their takeover was more in indictment of keeping fast mana around rather than of their power as it was.

@h3h3podcastclipper

Жыл бұрын

I'm willing to bet the initiative cards, including the three-mana ones, will be nowhere as dominant in Modern where fast mana is at a premium.

@Rocketknightgeek

Жыл бұрын

@@h3h3podcastclipper they aren't legal in modern...

@h3h3podcastclipper

Жыл бұрын

@@Rocketknightgeek If/when they are legal.

Seasoned dungeoneer is not just naming itself, it can attack and give itself protection from creatures as it itself is a warrior. Casually bolting your opponent every turn in white is pretty good, especially after you get to just shoot them for 5, get a land, draw a card, get more free creatures... the list goes on

One that has really surprised me is Coveted Jewel seing play in vintage. Just a fun artifact in commander but an insane target for bouncing and copying in more competitive formats.

True-Name Nemesis, I remember when that card was released. It become the most expensive card out of the commander decks upon release. I think it even eclipsed the MSRP of the commander deck cause it was so good and put into Delver decks which at the time was one of the best decks in modern.

@haikumagician4363

Жыл бұрын

I remember my LGS would buy the commander deck for 10$ more than it cost so I ran around to every Walmart I could get.

I knew true name nemesis was going to be on here somewhere. That is thing was $75 per copy for a while there because of the demand for it in Legacy and Vintage

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

I really don't know what the point of the card was. It's just a 2/1 for 3 mana! I guess you're intended to use it with Coastal Piracy effects for guaranteed card draw

@Metallicity

Жыл бұрын

It also shows the age of the script writer. True-Name and Scavenging Ooze were great cards at one point, but putting True-Name at number one on a list that doesn't feature White Plume Adventurer at all (unquestionably the better initiative creature over Seasoned Dungeoneer), is just laughable. Don't worry about the best card in the newest archetype sweeping through both Legacy and Vintage, because a handful of UR Delver players decided to flip a coin and sleeve up their old copies of True-Name Nemesis as the fifth best threat in the deck.

@dstreetz91

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I was under the impression that TNN is now bad in legacy because it's too slow compared to when it was released and you'd slam a piece of equipment on it and just go to town. Flusterstorm is a staple though that can and is used in almost any blue decks whether it's sideboard or maindeck.

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

@@dstreetz91 TNN too slow? Holy crap.

@flabberjiggles4825

Жыл бұрын

True Name Nemesis was a dominant threat in blue legacy decks for years. It's only in the past 2 years or so that it's fallen out of favor

There's a retrofitter deck making the rounds at least in historic on arena that makes use of Foundry and ornithopter. When it works right it has a 4/4 swinging on turn 2, it never uses the foundry really to make the tokens, just to turn ontithopters into threats.

Another card that I know is good in vintage is coveted jewel seeing as that's the format with so many ways of fast mana that having 6 mana on t1 isn't unheard of so you can play the jewel and draw 3 cards and get 3 more mana which can be used to cast a phyrexian metamorph to copy it drawing 3 more cards

I'm convinced at this point that hiru just chooses a random word in every video and just says it wrong on purpose. This video instead of saying forge he said forg

Sanctum prelate was never printed in a commander set, so I don’t know how that constitutes it as a “commander card”

@StickyBombLauncher

Жыл бұрын

was going to comment this

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

Eh, it's close enough.

@darthparallax5207

Жыл бұрын

It was designed for multiplayer.

@dstreetz91

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, should have been supplemental sets or something like that.

Regarding Scavenging Ooze, there's a card called Lion Sash. It trades in the life gain ability for the reconfigure ability (essentially, how Union monsters should've been). It's telling a lot that the downside is the fact it's an artifact creature, meaning cheap artifact hate can get rid of it. Also, there's a card called Hullbreacher. It's a VERY powerful card that got banned in Commander, the format it was designed for. And considering its ability, this card can allow for some disgusting combos with wheel effects and the like. Speaking of which, I'm baffled that Sanctum Prelate and Flusterstorm are buy-a-box promos in Modern Horizons sets when they became modern legal.

@Rukalin

Жыл бұрын

Lion Sash also grows off of any permanent type, not just creatures

@kennydarmawan13

Жыл бұрын

@@Rukalin That's another upside there.

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

Hullbreacher had the same problem Leovold did. I'm fine with effects that prevent players from going nuts with card draw, but I'm not fine with leaving them empty handed. There should be some sort of built in counterplay but I don't know exactly how to word that. Something like "At the beginning of each opponent's end step, if that player has no cards in hand, they put the top 5 cards of their library into their hand" or something like that

@shaunmcisaac782

Жыл бұрын

​@@williamdrum9899 Leovold wasn't just busted with Wheels He was busted even if you just threw out an Anvil of Bogardan That thing had to go, as did Hullbreacher Proper fix would have been to halt extra draws at two, instead of shutting out all of them.

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

@@shaunmcisaac782 Yeah, my biggest frustration was Leovold's second ability, you literally couldn't interact with their board without 2-for-1ing yourself

Not to mention that for Retrofitter Foundry if you have it, ornithopter, and a land turn one you can sac ornithoptee for a 4/4 on turn 1

awsome videos, i liked it

I think one thing worth noting is that for early installments of sets they're less sure of- the first few commander decks, conspiracy, battlebond- they purposely put cards in there for legacy and vintage players. This isn't always a case of "they made cards for multiplayer and didn't pay attention to the consequences"

I think your next video should be "The Top 10 KZreadrs who make Top 10 videos." Yeah def right up your alley!

Guessing before watching but the new initiative cards, flusterstorm, or the ooze

Its interesting that cards released in commander seem like theyre designed to adjust the gameplay in vintage and legacy without disrupting other formats.

Amazing!

Another benefit of flusterstorm that wasn't mentioned is that it shuts down control v control counter wars in modern

1 - Um, _actually,_ "direct damage" isn't necessary for Jitte; only combat damage period.

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

Which is a huge part of what made it so powerful. You couldn't stop it from getting counters even if you blocked.

"Top 10 Almost Fantastic Cards that Cost One Mana Too Much in Magic."

@MehrGills

Жыл бұрын

Cancel, murder, anticipate, etc. There are so many that are just low cost cards that the 1 mana is a significant proportional increase in cost, which make them unplayable

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

Omnath, Locus of Rage

You should make a “top ten worst/best combat tricks”

Why why why WHY would you not include the set the card was originally printed in for a video like this? You could literally just say "_____, originally printed in ______" and it would add so much more context to the cards in the video, because with every single one of these cards I had to open another tab just to double check when it was originally printed. Because the cards see play in other formats (the whole point of the video) I thought I was crazy when a card was shown and it felt like it was printed somewhere else first.

@Vyoowtiful

2 ай бұрын

He’s identifying the cards as printed for Commander. I don’t think it really matters before that when you already have the name of the card. Just google. He’s not responsible for every bit of information not mentioned.

i believe toxic deluge can also kill indestructible creatures! not the same card but i lost my toski to a meathook massacre once

@seandun7083

Жыл бұрын

Yes. It gets around indestructible, protection and regenerate effects.

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

It certainly can. A creature with 0 toughness is dead. Indestructible only saves a creature from damage and "destroy" effects

Jite doesn't require direct damage to do anything, any combat damage is all it needs to get counters to activate it's abilities.

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

Also it doesn't need to be attached to a creature to use its -1/-1 or gain 2 life effects.

I have seen many games where someone plays retrofitter foundry and ornithopter and has a turn 1 4/4

Even in MtG, Blastoise is still the best starter

I would say sawed in half fits here nicely wile not made for commander it was made in unfinity and sees play in vintage

A new one, Nadu!

Initiative is so fucking OP it even massaclres the insanly OP delver strats. Its an abomination.

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

It would be fine if you couldn't flicker the creatures to get it again

i said it before and i said it again. Storm wouldnt be a problem if it stated "copy it for each other spell ON THE STACK" not cast this turn. making it more chain based then just cantriping over and over

me, listening to this in the background: "next card is Minsc and Boo" whoa okay now i'm listening intently

Minsc and Boo, buttkicking for justice!

Still hoping for the pauper series

we love scavenging ooze

I don’t think that Flusterstorm is great in Vintage because of opposing storm decks. Rather the fact that it often enough functions as a 1 mana Dovin’s Veto when your opponent is tapped out. Since Force of Willing a Flusterstorm does not counter the other copy(s).

Gonna take a guess n say that True-Name Nemesis is #1 Yes!!! Called it!

Idea on top 10 strongest (power toughness) cards that arnt x/x let’s go bfg 😂

Anyone know whether Scavenging Ooze can intercept Shivan Phoenix's automatic passage from graveyard back to your hand?

@Digital_Butterfly

Жыл бұрын

Yes. When the Phoenix is put into the grave, it triggers an ability to return to hand. You can respond to that trigger with Scooze's ability to exile it, stopping it from going to hand. If the ability instead said "if it would be put into a graveyard, return it to hand instead", there would be no window for you to exile it from grave.

@naomicoffman1315

Жыл бұрын

It can! If an ability begins with "when", "whenever", or "at", it's a triggered ability, meaning it can be responded to; and Shivan Phoenix's ability has that "when" keyword. If you'd like to know more, there are dozens of videos about "the stack and priority" :) Conversely, if an ability begins with "as" or "if", then it creates a replacement effect, which don't use the stack and can't be responded to.

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

An example of a card you CANNOT scooze is Progenitus.

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

@@Digital_Butterfly Wait, I thought it would shuffle itself into deck as a replacement effect

@Digital_Butterfly

Жыл бұрын

@@williamdrum9899 Oh, you're right, I forgot he had that clause.

Like half of these aren't "made for Commander" cards and pretty much had the exact impact they were designed to have

wow i thought i might wanna get back into magic and then i saw dungeoneer lmao how many ridiculous mechanics do i have to keep track of just because hasbro wants to make more money? never coming back to this game lol

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

In my opinion 60 card 1v1 magic isn't fun

True name dies to Barrow Blade.

I passed the chance of buy retrofitter foundry for 2$ for my commander deck. I regret it to this day

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

What's it worth now?

@EvGamerBETA

Жыл бұрын

@@williamdrum9899 8 times as much

The thing that stumps me to this day is why to people keep mispronouncing deluge.

bunch of spelling errors during the True Name Nemesis section

Baleful strix 😢 Palace jailer

Top 10 commanders / commander decks?

@fosterdawson7339

Жыл бұрын

In terms of power or how many decks they have around them?

@zakbrooks7354

Жыл бұрын

I sadly don't think they do commander content

If you don't know how to pronounce a word it's always best to use Google Translate because it will tell you how to pronounce the word. Its Kap-pa not Kop-pa.

@stigmaoftherose

Жыл бұрын

I am more surprised someone in the modern year on the internet doesn't know how to say kappa.

Kinda curious why Lurrus isn't on this list, considering that it literally _broke every format_ on release, and forced Wizards to change how the entire companion mechanic works on the base level. (also Yorion, but that one was far less prominent) And yes, companions weren't printed in an explicitly Commander product, but they were explicitly designed to be synergistic with and usable in commander, so I'd say it counts enough for at least a dishonorable mention.

@calemr

Жыл бұрын

Companion was designed not For commander, but to make Other Formats commander (While utterly failing to recognise most people's reasons for enjoying commander). Which was kind of the entire problem. Standard and modern and so on aren't Meant to be commander.

@darthparallax5207

Жыл бұрын

Lurrus should be dishonorably mentioned on every list ever because it was the first time since BLACK LOTUS that a card was BANNED in VINTAGE for POWER LEVEL. Lurrus is the most mistake of a Magic card ever. Oko Thief of Crowns, Stoneforge Mystic, Dredge, Affinity, and Storm were all more fair than Companion. It was absurd.

@calemr

Жыл бұрын

@@darthparallax5207 Lurrus wasn't exactly banned for Power, it was banned for being in almost every deck just because "Hey, why not?". Most vintage decks met his companion requirement without trying.

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

It was banned because restricting it did nothing.

@Metallicity

Жыл бұрын

There were multiple companions that were printed basically incompatible with EDH. Yorion asked you to break the mandatory 100 card deck building rule, Lutri got instantly banned for asking nothing in a singleton format, and Lurrus itself only had like 2 legal commanders that could run it upon release. Companion was designed to translate the experience of casting a commander into 1v1 formats, while I'm guessing some of the EDH rules committee didn't want to have them printed into Commander at all.

"broke into" is not the same as "broke" wtf

I really hate how commander gets their own special sets now more than modern or other formats when every standard set is already basically designed for commander in mind

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

I guess that's the benefit of designing for a format that's geared around fun over competition. You don't have to worry about breaking it as much.

@LizaPlz

Жыл бұрын

@@williamdrum9899 yes because opposition agent, sol ring, dockside extortionist, and demonic tutor is so fun. I'm sorry for making you angry for dethroning your favorite format god forbid but there's also a lot of other people who don't play and are very very tired of everything being commander.

@zakbrooks7354

Жыл бұрын

@@LizaPlz first off, only two of the cards you named are specific to commander sets, and one even got ported over to modern. Second, they never said anything about commander being their favorite format, you just assumed. All they said was that wizards doesn't consider other formats when designing cards for commander because the format is designed to be over the top and fun. Even as a commander player I agree that the amount of stuff we get is a bit ridiculous

@LizaPlz

Жыл бұрын

@@zakbrooks7354 NONE OF THE CARDS I MENTIONED ARE MODERN LEGAL

@williamdrum9899

Жыл бұрын

@@LizaPlz No, I'm not angry. I get it. Wizards kind of painted themselves into a corner didn't they. Every once in a while I want to play 60 card magic too. But then I remember I don't have the money for the good decks