This was a very enlightening read. It resonated with me as I walked away from a church that truly believed the lies. The moment my old pastor said Trump should proclaim martial law and stay in power I knew I could no longer grow as a Christian there. Thankfully I had other followers of Jesus that helped me find a new home church that focused on our Savior and not the world.

@judithmcdonald9001

3 ай бұрын

I was lucky enough to find an open and affirming church when I moved. You know if LBGQTA are welcome, they're doing right!!

So I subscribed and I'm an atheist. So GRACE! (that was my grandmother's name). That overarching ability to continue to care! To see the humanity in those with whom we strongly disagree! We really must NOT lose that! As hard as it is getting ( seemingly harder and harder!) it is our salvation!

A candid conversation!!! This video popped up on my feed and, when I saw the Christainity label, I started to click away, figuring it would be MAGA babble. But this conversation was honest. Thank you.

@puffthemagiclepton7534

4 ай бұрын

If you are not MAGA you are not Christian. You are the Enemy.

Thank you Russell and Tim for this excellent conversation! 🕊️🇺🇸

Wow! Extraordinary and relevant conversation! It is so heartening to know there are still Christians who understood Jesus when he said “My Kingdom is not of this world”

Very interesting! What makes me hopeful is when trying to puchase Tim's book it seems to be "out of stock" everywhere. At least on Amazon and all of the Barnes & Noble stores in my area. I live in conservative Forsyth County, GA, 35 miles north of Atlanta, and our local public libraries have a waiting list for it. So that's what makes me hopeful; knowing so many people are interested in what you have to say!

@deborahnewport2874

4 ай бұрын

That blows my mind! As a previous GA resident (for 50 years), I can hardly believe there are any Evangelical Christians in GA who would care anything about this book. That certainly gives me hope.

This RINO says amen to this content. Prayers are for these two men to keep standing up for the real gospel

Evangelical tenets: 1) Hate thy neighbor when different 2) Thou shalt throw that first stone with a vengeance 3) Judge as if thou art God thouself 4) Never shalt thou forgive those who wronged thou 5) Thy God is Money, and Money is thy God 6) Strike that cheek, with all thy force and power 7) Thou shalt not rest before thou hast extinguished thy enemies 8) It is easier for thou giant SUV to go through the eye of a needle than for a poor person to enter the Kingdom of God

@bthomson

4 ай бұрын

Ouch!

@allymayful

4 ай бұрын

Tragedly true!!! For some Churches. Certainly no way to win new members to your Church.

@halfulford3081

2 ай бұрын

Just the opposite of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Their god is of this world Satan himself.

@user_kH9bw3ns1

2 ай бұрын

This is hilarious! Well done. Of course sad but amazing.

"How did we get here?" Because it has been here the whole time. You didn't have to be a prophet to see it coming.

@that_heretic

6 ай бұрын

This. The white evangelical church in America has been corrupt and heretical for decades now.

@claesvanoldenphatt9972

6 ай бұрын

Frankie Schaefer was griping about this decades ago. His dad invented evangelicalism and he personally started the whole anti-abortion movement with a film he made in 1974.

@rodrigonino3354

5 ай бұрын

The quiet part is now screaming from the rooftops

@patrickmccurdy8688

3 ай бұрын

​@@claesvanoldenphatt9972, he also has a KZread video with Tim.

Thank you for addressing this difficult and sticky issue.

Powerful book. I really encourage everyone to read it who considers themselves a Christian.

Dr. Moore, listening to your conversation with Tim Alberta while riding the train and having a few "Moments."I appreciated the point made regarding the Black Church. Also, I'm having another moment of gratitude. I appreciate the faithfulness of you, Curtis Chang, David Frenc, Jemar Tisby, David Ritchie, Angela Denker, Pete Werner, Robert P Jones, Soong-Chan Rah, Mark Charles, Andrew Perry, and others who have used your training and expertise to document this moment in time. While I would have probably not referred to myself as a Christian nationalist, I was once on a path to Conservative political power that included a graduate degree from the Robertson School of Government and participation in many conservative public policy organizations, including the Heritage Foundation. Again, I appreciate the work you are doing.

As a Christian, I think evangelizing means more than just sharing the Gospel rhetorically. The Bible says that it's the goodness of God that brings people to repentance. And repent literally means to change one's mind, in the Greek. And the only way really break through a hard heart, is by showing that person love and grace and with open arms. Christianity should be about addition not subtraction, not through comprimsies, but acceptance through grace for where they are, and letting the Holy Spirit do the real internal work of the heart.

@Justanotherconsumer

6 ай бұрын

I did a brief study of Luther’s 95 a while back, and the characterization I got there was not just to change, but to actively reject who you were. The 95 included criticism that Catholic doctrine offered forgiveness without repentance. People focus on the indulgences for good reason but the timing seems unlikely to be an accident - veneration of saintly relics was sold as another way to get redemption without actually repenting. I felt kind of stupid afterwards, actually, on the whole “grail will bring eternal life” - of course it does, it brings the eternal life that comes with faith in Christ. No need to change who you are, to be born again, just have to find the widget. Well worth reading, in my opinion. Also, Luther, dude, easy on the implied arson threats with St. Peter’s, okay?

@Robin-bk2lm

5 ай бұрын

As long as people think that they know god and others don't, religion will always be divisive and supremecist.

@markanthony3275

2 ай бұрын

According to the Bible, the Holy Spirit changes peoples heart...we must preach the gospel to them...the WHOLE gospel.

@stevengriffith414

Ай бұрын

L⁰⁰00oo8 33:17

This was an excellent interview. I would love to see Dr. Moore invite Marshall Davis on his show. Marshall's non-dual perspective on Christianity is both unifying and in my view deeply true.

I am a progressive gal on the far left, but I enjoy and appreciate Russell Moore very much.

Excellent interview. I've seen Tim on PBS recently. Will try to buy and read his book. Thanks for this video.

I so enjoy the discussions on this show.

My dear friend came here after the Vietnam war. Her American daughter married the son of a white Christian minister. The Mom is very poor and owns her own business. She created much of the wedding by hand to hold the cost down. The wedding was nightmare because of the Grooms family. His father and brother are both conservative UCC ministers. The brides brother is in a relationship with a young woman of Japanese heritage. There were other relatives of the Grooms that wore Maga gear. Several cousins were blonde and slender. The cousins and Aunts cornered the college girl of Japanese heritage and were lecturing her on what to do about her pudgy body so she would looked better. They kept asking what religion she was and was she voting for Trump. To end the chaos the Father of the groom who was officiating at the wedding balked at the blessing tea ceremony that he had previously agreed to. Jesus wept for these two young people and the mother subjected to horrible bigotry from this “Christian Minister and his Maga family”.

@DJ-JGO

4 ай бұрын

One sure fire way to strengthen racism is to fight racism with racism. I'm just going to be honest, it sounds pretty racist on both sides. In my opinion it sounds like a few liberties were taken when writing this story. People don't usually wear hats to weddings. If they did, that's strange but it sounds like your trying to demonize a group of people you don't know much about. Democrats have branded themeselves party of the republicans, by trying to steal their history. Republican party was founded on one purpose, free the slaves. Republicans faught for woman's right to vote. In most Republican states women are voting 30-40yrs before democrat states. It was Democrats that voted against women rights for 48 yrs that the Republicans tried to pass and brought up every year for 49yrs straight. Republican party had the first asian congressman, first 20+ African congressman, 1st women in congress (1916 before they could vote in democrat states). All I'm saying is that the party that continues to tell you they are about accepting all people, are the same party of slavery, against womens rights, and who still uses slavery tactics to this very day. They control schools, yet they won't let minorities transfer to better schools... maybe to teach flawed history or indoctrination? They used tactics to keep slaves dependent on them and still do. They went door to door in minority neighborhoods letting married women know that the gov can take care of them. They used the kkk as their own personal militia (2 democrat senators created it), just like antifa today. I'm just trying to say maybe the ones you are told to hate, might be the ones who have more in common with than you know.

@DJ-JGO

4 ай бұрын

I wouldn't consider UCC a Christian church though.

@northernbohemianrealist1412

4 ай бұрын

The groom didn't shut things down and tke his wife, mother on law, and future sister in law away with him. That shows his commitment.

@karenokeson2705

4 ай бұрын

I wish that young couple love, happiness and strength. Please know not everyone is like that. Prayers for prosperity. Hugs from a stranger, who says you are the only ones who decide who you wish to vote for. It is your decision. You don't have to tell anyone who you pick. Blessings from a stranger, walk straight with your spouse, your best friend. 🙏💗💐🥂🎆

The problem with focusing so much on politics is that no politics in this age is going to be completely aligned with the good of Christ. Whatever temporary good comes of it will ultimately be twisted to create evil. Time to get back to Jesus the Messiah. Maranatha.

@that_heretic

6 ай бұрын

That and politics is corrupt by nature. That corruption will (I think has) enter the church.

@Justanotherconsumer

6 ай бұрын

@@that_hereticseparation of church and state is critical to the witness of the church.

@that_heretic

6 ай бұрын

@@Justanotherconsumer 💯

@ezbody

6 ай бұрын

I am afraid there will be no going back to Jesus the Messiah. People tasted the fruit of deception and hatred, and they loved it. Digging for truth is difficult, it's time consuming, finding alt-truth is easy and quick. People ingested the "moral" gibberish of Jordan Peterson, and they found it reasonable, even worse, they found it Christian. People looked at the pre-paid and pre-digested divisive politics of PragerU Capitalism and called it Christianity. All of it is just a useless noise, yet people are attracted to it like flies to honey.

The lack of education, the anti-education sentiment, the othering, suspicion, lack of self-doubt/questioning, the absence of self-awareness, self-investigation. They oversimplify, while almost everything is far more complex than they suspect. There is far too little acknowledgement of the enigmas and paradoxes of life. Their ideals have become idols, and everything and all people can be easily sacrificed to them, disregarding all the rest of their religion. The ignorance of the world/life leaves them clueless, incapable of dealing with misinformation, gossip, rumors, propaganda. They forget that the labels alone, which one gives oneself, don't make it so. We hate most in others what we see reflected in some way in ourselves. If we seek to apply our religion to ourselves, the anger at others actions falls away for the most part, and we don't naturally go to imposing our religion on others as a cop-out.

@Window4503

6 ай бұрын

Very insightful comment. I wish I could give it more likes

@that_heretic

6 ай бұрын

Agreed, but it's worse than this I'm afraid. Mixed in here is a lust for power that cannot be ignored. Not for themselves as individuals necessarily, but for their group. Some race comes into play here too quite often. They're either already, or very close to being, willing to do anything, to achieve their ends. Especially the ones they can't/won't articulate.

@meilengschwarzbek9421

5 ай бұрын

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let’s hear the conclusion of the whole matter: FEAR GOD…

@sharontabor7718

5 ай бұрын

Lack of education is not even a component of this craziness. I know many well-educated people who have fallen into the MAGA rabbit hole

I am a product of the Jesus People times. I saw “A Thief in the Night” when I was about 12, was a part of Son City and then Willow Creek when I could get a ride to the theater. My family was mainline Presbyterian, but I got swept up in the Evangelical fervour of the 70s. I went to Trinity College in Deerfield Illinois when it went from a good liberal arts school to a right wing, party line school (1983j. I could see the awful direction of Evangelicalism then. It has just gotten worse and worse and worse. I have completely deconstructed. The evangelicals have zero good news. They have exchanged any Truth of Jesus for the Lie of Power.

@marybell3013

5 ай бұрын

Yup, the evangelicals “got me” when I started college, I was raised Catholic but they said “no, the Catholics are wrong, every other religion is wrong except us. Oh, and give us money!” It always felt wrong. Thank God I finally got out of the church traps and guilt. Now I commune with the Great Spirit in nature.

@northernbohemianrealist1412

4 ай бұрын

I attended one CCC event in the early eighties. It became another slight push to my atheism. I guess I should thank them.

@allymayful

4 ай бұрын

@@northernbohemianrealist1412 Not if it separated you from Jesus/God!!! Don’t let human beings rob you of that awesome friendship/ mentoring. Always possible thru Prayer.

@northernbohemianrealist1412

4 ай бұрын

​@@allymayful I think that the only valid religion is the Church of Joe Pesci. Pray all you want, but five hundred bucks to a Pesci congregant and your problem will be solved. 2am: (Knock knock) "Yeah, the Bohemian says he got a problem wit ya, but me and dis baseball bat says hey, dere's no problem. Wot youse gotta say?"

@allymayful

4 ай бұрын

@@northernbohemianrealist1412 Jesus is cool!!!

Separated from organized religion years ago but always admired Dr. Russell Moore. We are making history. The church is evolving. I appreciate Tim Alberta putting his thoughts down on paper and sharing with the public.

Good stuff!

That intro music is one crunchy groove. And the interview was illuminating. Thank you!

Funniest thing I’ve ever heard Dr Moore say, “You’re making me re-think my position on marijuana.” So am I!

It takes courage and integrity to hold on to the truth. Timidity is not a virtue when pursuing truth.

Very interesting. I hope more people can follow this reasoning. It’s distressing to see half my country abandon facts, decency, and democracy.

@harrybrooks8514

5 ай бұрын

It’s a fulfillment of what the Religious Right has been talking about for decades. Unfortunately I didn’t realize that back in 1976, when I was involved. Now that they are tapping into real political power, the Religious Right may soon have the power to launch the theocracy which Pat Robertson, Rousas Rushdoony, and Jerry Falwell were rhapsodizing about in the 80s. It won’t be bloodless, unfortunately.

The "evangelicals" mentioned by critical commentators are not the peacemakers Jesus called us to be. They are instead POWER PEOPLE. Not Peace people. This is not an overreatcion--the Power faction, which is "blinded by might," to use Cal Thomas' phrase, operates from carnal motivation--their faction must control, and win, and rule. This is NOT the servant-kingdom spoken of by the Lord Jesus--it is pure, raw, viscious carnal flesh. "My Kingdom is not of this world," He said.

St. Paul promoted a siege mentality . It is baked into the Bible. It is time Christians took responsibility over what their Holy Book actually says in reality.

How did we get here? Religion will always be divisive and supremecist when people think they know god and others don't.

Talking about how afraid evangelicals are about this or that is a sign that something is wrong. It's like pain in the body is a symptom that the body is injured. Because with real faith we would have no fear. Even unto death. We would trust the Lord in all things

Excellent and much-needed INTELLIGENT conversation. Keep em' coming!

The story of Niemöller and the Deutsche Christen is one that I wish more Christians knew. In short, Niemöller initially supported the Nazis because they were opposed to the atheism of communists. The Nazis then tried to take over the church, and Niemöller (among others) resisted, including with the Barmen Declaration. He spent most of the war in various prisons and camps but he was too visible to be executed without backlash. At the end of the war he tried to reconcile with the global church with the Stuttgart declaration, which is a sad and half-hearted document that aims at repentance and… well, it tries. The Barmen declaration is something that might be worth chatting about. Basically a refusal of the church to kneel to political authority, a concept Christians of all stripes have at least some support for.

I’m in my 60’s now and grew up in an extended fundamentalist evangelical family (mostly Baptist or Brethren), the late Jerry Falwell Snr preached on occasion in our church and even as an impossibly naive teenager (we did not have TV in our house as it was considered as a tool of the devil) I found that his sermons were party political broadcasts and he had this air of menace. I’ve long left this bubble but it’s no surprise to me that the most fanatical voter base of Trump are white evangelicals and that the prevailing ideology is of so called Dominion Theology which is in my opinion a great perverted evil - for example in its rationalisation of so called ‘Holy violence’ as a means to bring in a quasi theocracy.

@Anabee3

5 ай бұрын

I relate to your comment so well. Im very grateful you were delivered out of that mess. PS: I'm disheartened that the word "evangelical" has been hijacked & redefined to have such a negative, un-Godly connotation.

@sandorski56

5 ай бұрын

Not just evil, Fascist. Some Evangelical Churches in Germany supported Hitler as well.

@epincion

5 ай бұрын

@@sandorski56 yes if you read the history of the rise of Nazi party in the 1930’s it’s instructive that Germany was a country beset by violence, due to extremist political factions left and right and religious exploiting the high unemployment and hyperinflation. Hitler who we now know was probably atheist was careful to portray himself as a ‘law and order’ candidate and a man of sober hardworking habits and a Christian (he would attend different churches every Sunday with an entourage and this was always covered in the media). He positioned the Nazi party as against crime and for ‘decency’ (for the time Weimar Germany was quite liberal in outlook - for example as long as it as not too overt things like same sex relationships were tolerated - and the religious conservatives hated this. Hence Hitlers first targets were Gypsies (held to be responsible for petty crime) and homosexuals and of course his direct political enemies. Conservative Christians supported him hugely.

@maestromister3103

5 ай бұрын

Yes! I came upon Dominion Theology in about 2010 and spent a good 9 months investigating it and trying to see how pervasive it was in the church. Interestingly enough, 2 weeks after I found out about Lance Wallnau one of the high priests of Dominion Theology and the 7 Mountain mandate, he visited our church and preached. I ended up leaving that church but I found out that 2016, the church that was previously multicultural was heavily fractured on account of Trumpism being championed from the pulpit. Almost all the black people that I know that went to that church left.

@Robin-bk2lm

5 ай бұрын

As long as people think they know god and others don't, religion will be divisive and supremecist.

Thank you.

I have read some of the works of Frank Schaefer, Jr., son of the famous Evangelical "pope", and co-founder with him and others of the American Evangelical movement. Schaeffer, Jr. has lived to "take all or almost all of it back." He found himself disowning his former "belief" system, I also think of the theological David Brantley Hart who wrote "most fundamentalist don't really believe the stuff they preach, they just think they have to say they do." Interesting to ponder.

It's ironic that some evangelicals fear barbarians taking over and yet act like barbarians.

Just finding you... great book...

F.E.A.R. False Evidence Appearing Real is a helpful slogan. Ad revenue drives instilling fear driven reactions.

@whoaaanelly65

5 ай бұрын

I use this acronym exactly the same. It is a truth.

finally someone explains this.

The point at 8:48 is critical to understand what's going on. What's odd to me is two things. 1) it works over, and over, and over. 2) Their leaders, especially their pastors, are either in on it, or failing to prep their churches to resist this propaganda technique. It's a very interesting thing that a book could be written on, and I hope Mr. Moore continues to think about and question.

@titanman33

5 ай бұрын

It's a natural risk when you have an institution that is empowered to lead a mass of people in terms of how to define their relationship to their deity. Bad shepherd, bad flock and all that...

@merriferrell2818

5 ай бұрын

Many of the pastor's encourage it...and the motivation is money

Evangelicals have done a Lot of damage.....

@patrickmccurdy8688

3 ай бұрын

True, but Tim, in other podcasts, points out all the good Evangelical Christians have done.

Is that Diarmaid MacCulloch on Moore's bookshelf?

Very great talk. Thank you.

Think about Project 2025! Think about authoritarianism! Vote Blue and pray!

35:30 it can get real dark real fast. And that is even scientifically true. Something called the inverse square of light. basically, the further you are from light, the strength of this light is lost exponentially. And the further we go from truth, we go down that slippery slope

just when I was beginning to wonder if the Evangelical church had morphed into an extremist organization...it's so good to hear truly self-reflective conversations like this.

Fantastic conversation!

Thank you, Brothers🌹⭐🌹⭐

Brother against brother. Sister against sister

Thanks Dr. Moore for investing in young people today they are tomorrow’s hero’s. Thanks for investing in my son in law Devon K at Southern

Yes. Thank you. I have not read the story but I saw the enemy coming for the heart of man the first time around. I took a screen shot of your comment and hope to read it to just bring me encouragement and fortify my stand for the next round. I too have lost some relationships for my anti Trump conversation. And it was never about politics. I want to find that story and share it with my grandson. Who just turned 18. He has a lot of questions.

@meilengschwarzbek9421

5 ай бұрын

JESUS is KING of Kings and LORD of Lords.

Matthew chapter 24 verse 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible they shall deceive the very elect.

You would think "leaving to Caesar with his Caesar" would also imply leave politics out of church. But in many ways, the same people who crucified Jesus realized they can have money in power using his name as false witnesses

How can two smart guys think they're talking about megachurches without uttering the T word. Yes, taxes. Tax exemptions for millionaire congregants, parsonage allowances for lavish estates. Let's get real, shall we?

I find it curious how Trump supporters acknowledge & preach on how God appoints all nation's leaders & how we are to have great respect for him etc when referring to djt. However, when acknowledging same scripture in terms of Biden (or any former potus they do NOT like) they say, "Yes, God appoints all nations leaders...HOWEVER, sometimes as a curse/wrath".

29:22 game theory clearly states that you cannot win a game when your opponent cheats

God's plan of salvation and redemption is far grander and radical than what most believers recognize. But what many people who come from a respectable comfortable middle to upper class bourgeois background don't understand is that their taken for granted cultural construction is not the same as a godly, righteous and just order established on God's principles of excellence and integrity in government. God wants not only to radically transform the hearts of individual believers, but also a radical elevation and transformation of civilization itself. God is a living God not a God of death and decay. There seems to be a church which has essentially become aligned with the corrupt and oppressive idolatrous systems of this world rather than incarnating (in its prototype embryonic forms) the millennial kingdom of God in this present world order. The church which has accommodated itself to these evil, unjust and corrupt systems are like the salt that has lost its saltiness and savor. The church is like the whitened sepulchre which outwardly appears beautiful but is full of corruption within. I am not talking about fringe and self evidently heretical cult groups but the mainstream of conservative religious traditionalism. Everything that belongs to the old order and old creation is doomed and destined to perish and pass away, God tells his people that they must be willing to crucify and put to death the old man and woman, but what they dont understand is that we must also be willing to let the old world systems and order die as well. The proof of this is that this is exactly what the flood judgment of Noah was about, where we see a reoccurring biblical theme and pattern, that the old must die in order that the new can be born and live.

I grew up in a similar religious situation. Who knows how many wounded persons there are who have similar stories and, like me, see American political Christian national fundamentalism in much the same way they saw “the Beast” during the 1970s. I no longer pray for America. I think it’s too late. Let the egregious religious persons get what they’ve been blabbering about for the last 25 years or so. Let them rue the day and repent. Maybe after experiencing so much carnage and stupidity they’ll actually repent and get that bloody revival they’ve been clamoring about.

Do these Christians know and understand they will be voting for authoritarianism?

@davidwilkins5932

Ай бұрын

Yes, and they see it as THEIR authoritarianism. THEY will be calling all the shots.

This only proves to me that many evangelical Christians don’t really believe what they preach, or in the message of the Christ, punishment for sin and the promise of the afterlife. Because if they did believe, they’d be very scared !

@Justanotherconsumer

6 ай бұрын

They just suffer from what Jesus warned about with obsessing over the mote and missing the beam. It’s a very human problem.

@jahbern

5 ай бұрын

@@Justanotherconsumertrue - it’s the human condition. But if even Jesus can’t convince people not to be awful to their neighbors, what can WE do? It’s heartbreaking to watch people betray Jesus this way.

Tim's comments about Greg Locke surprised me. I actually remember seeing a video of Greg Locke debating a flat earther and basically using the very logical argument about the lack of a working model of a flat earth. I was like, "WHAT?! Locke actually making a logical and accurate point?!" It seems to me that he formed a business model and it works, so why stop his shtick.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let’s hear the conclusion of the whole matter: FEAR GOD…

Excellent collaboration & great session of two people exposing the poison that has infiltrated & divided the body of Christ. Thank you Dr. Moore & Mr. Alberta for this lecture.

All of you Christian media personalities need to take responsibility for your words: past, present and future. Speak truth to the masses

Yo

All those who have ill motives will be judged. Its sad the lives of these militant " christians" Jesus did not act as they do at all. I f I hadn't been a christian for 45 years , I doubt I would join now with the terrible witness the evangelical church is exhibiting now. I am a christian that is in the minority of WWJD thinking. We are to be like Him, not looking for power for ourselves. Gods kingdom will always survive, no matter what. There is no fear in that

Actually marijuana used to make me more paranoid which actually might be helpful😀

OMG Putin -plays. Oop! I lost the context for that, but Russian propaganda and Putin plays feel like a game I've watched so long where they are recognizable instantly. You don't even want to know what they know about you. And it's ever better if you don't care and can continue to generate light anyway.

I have several thoughts as a former Christian. Tim speaks about a “wake up” moment being told he’ll be forgiven if he supports Trump. For me, my aunt and several members of my former church, designed interventions when I was 18, after I’d been attacked, to assure me that Jesus would forgive me for being raped. They were so focused on my purity for a future marriage that they believed either that I felt I needed to be forgiven or that they did. The “low simmering” came to a boil and I realized how oppressive the church had been to the women in my life. You recognize the “vested interests” that members of the church have for achieving their ends. The church successfully scared my extended family into shaming and disowning their gay children. I witnessed it happen to my aunt, and then it happened to me. I’ve witnessed the “biblical” racism the white evangelicals who raised me taught. It was quite explicit. It’s not a caricature. When you know that the church and your family believe that black people, LGBTQIA+ people, women, the mentally ill, and other marginalized groups are inherently inferior to what they consider godly - there is little reason to stay. When my younger sister came out, they had softened some - she’s not estranged from them as I am. In the few times I’ve met with my family since I left, I’ve noticed what appears to be regret. But if that’s where they want to go, they need to actually repair the harm they’ve done. “Hate the sin, not the sinner” is so emblematic of the clear desire to fell superior. There’s no hate like Christian love. I hope my family and other evangelicals will come to realize that they must try to repair the harm they’ve done. My grandparents are Methodists, and my grandfather is a reverend. For as loving as they are, it is interesting that their daughters were so affected by the mindset of the “Moral Majority” movement. For as much as they decry talking about politics, all they do is judge those who are different from them. They (purportedly) feel they need to protect their spirituality by separating themselves from the “sinners”. They don’t want to talk politics but they made a deal with the devil so they have an immoral and shameless “champion” to fight for their grievances. Trump will be unconstrained in a second term. He and his campaign speak about his crusade against “vermin” “poisoning the blood of our country”. That doesn’t sound like unconditional love - or Christianity - to me. These conversations make me hopeful that the evangelicals and fundamentalists in our country will come around and realize the pact they’ve made. But I’m also very worried based on what I’ve seen.

@lind774

5 ай бұрын

I was raised in a fundamentalist, almost a cult, church community. Though my experiences were not nearly as traumatic, I can certainly relate. Basically, my faith in Christ survived the church.

@rachels.8051

5 ай бұрын

@@lind774 I’m glad that you survived it and that you are able to find comfort in your faith. It is satisfying to know that some took Jesus’ teachings to heart.

@maddmaddmom

5 ай бұрын

Hi Rachel. I love saying your name. I lost my beautiful Rachel a couple of years ago to Fentanyl. She was the daughter who I could share my concerns with regarding the insane idolatry of man and desperate need for power that i saw the church crusading. I miss her very much. My other two adult children are a little more "right" than I. Which I am perplexed by. Won't go into detail. I just want to share the two things that kept me on my feet these past 8 years. Trust me, when I saw the church falling to Trump I panicked. Went to my church and told the pastors wife and anyone who would listen that something horrible was happening and that we needed to fast and pray. It did not take me long to figure out I was not in the movement. and I had to just sit back and watch. And listen, and pray. and fast. all by myself. oh, and get beat up on Christian social media. I was not making any new friends and I was losing some relationships. The first thing I read is in the bible that caused me to allow Jesus in was "every man is given a measure of faith". It explained why I believed in the Father. The Son. The Holy Spirit. God made me in His image and created me with a desire to know Him. The second thing is "We will all work out our salvation with fear and trembling". And it is so true. No matter what we believe or don't believe. That much is true. Today, I have a relationship with a God who loves me. No matter what. And I have a Jesus. Who died in my place. And a Holy Spirit who guides me. I am a sinner. In need of forgiveness. Every day. I must repent at least 20 times a day and I know I am short of my repentance. I sin. I don't want to, but I do. I have a niece who is married to her partner. I love her very much. I have another niece who has described herself as wiccan. Another who says she is athiest. I love all very much. I am sorry you have some damage due to Christian ideology. they are human and probably have regret. but they are human and also suffer from pride. I hope your relationships with your parents get healed. thats what I pray for you. and them. love, Lori. Rachels mom f32 9-16-21

@jahbern

5 ай бұрын

I’m so sorry, Rachel. Your story is not the first I’ve heard and it won’t be last. You didn’t deserve that kind of treatment by the people who claim to love Jesus. I’m so so sorry. But you are not alone and your voice is being heard. ❤

@karenokeson2705

4 ай бұрын

I come from a Lutheran upbringing. Wisconsin (synod?), not Missouri synod. The minister, whom I will not name, was a different type. A couple with two children were starting the process of separation for divorce. Rural congregation, dairy farmers. The children were around 15, girl and 10, boy. While decisions were being talked through, housing looked for and trying to make sure the farm stayed going until it absolutely couldn't, our minister was "counseling" the couple, individually mostly. That "man of God" told the woman that if her then still husband committed suicide, it would be her fault. You talk about weaponising the church against women. She and her children left. The divorce was finalized about two long years later, the summer before my senior year of high school. I thank God my mom had the strength to get out. She's one of the strongest people I know. I still have a problem w the church. That minister is long dead. There have been some very fine men and women leading the church in the years since. 🙏💗💙💐💐🕊️

37:37 I have a nit to pick, Tim, he did not say that he would only let Christians into the country at the rally in New Hampshire. He said “if you don’t like our religion,” you don’t get in. Now, of course, the fact that he thinks “we“ have some collective religion is a problem in itself, but I think you should probably amend what you’re saying about it just to be clear. I am not 100% sure that people won’t interpret it the way you have, but as a journalist, you should be accurate.

Ironic that evangeli is Greek for what we translate as "gospel", meaning good news. Evangelist meant bearer of good news

Every time I begin this program I think "Breaking Bad" is about to start.

Nothing more dangerous than a chameleon wolf, constantly shaped shifting into what you want it to be

Religion is so helpful, isn't it.

Many evangelicals have been led by their leaders rather than scripture. The very word evangelist is the Greek word we translate as gospel, which means good news. Jesus in the apostles went around preaching the good news that you can be saved. Not fear and condemnation and judgment, which Jesus specifically reserved for God and himself. And Jesus says multiple times I came out to judge but to save. Like 317. The only time you can read Jesus saying I came to judge was a translation. And John. He says I came to judge so that the blind may see, etc. The translation is a preposition. I came into judgment. He came into this world of judgment for our sake. Jesus didn't come for judgment, that comes later. And he expressly said that we are not the judge. We have no right to judge another man's slave. And in phrases such as in James, it is written A person’s anger does not produce the righteousness/justice God desires. James 1:20 He said things like if you don't hear what I say then I don't judge you. And he would walk away. If their hearts in mind weren't changing, he wasn't going to attack him persecute them. He said a house divided against itself cannot stand. And so you cannot use The devil or his tools to convert someone - you cannot use fear and judgment and hatred and condemnation. It's a shame more people don't read and reread and reread the gospels for themselves. And take a personal interest in their own salvation more than they do the salvation of others.

"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil..." They have an idol, he's orange and is the complete opposite to Christ.

@Justanotherconsumer

5 ай бұрын

Still in the image, and even if our enemy, we are called to love.

Has Dispensationalism been a contributing factor in turning the gospel of hope into a doomsday cult?

If you are really "out of this world", how could anything in the world disrupt you? Yoda said it best. Fear leads to the dark side. The fear driven movement is toxic

I think in a way it is comical that people were afraid of "common core". How can you be afraid of math?

It might be worth it to look into the notion, cherished by the Christian fundamentalists of my former tribe, that God needs the United States of America to ‘secure the spread of the gospel.’ Two thoughts come to mind. God sent his messiah into the world at a time when his people were under the thumb of one of the most wicked and corrupt regimes in history. During his earthly ministry, Jesus didn’t tell his followers to rise up and “own” the Romans, insist that Roman money had ‘IN GOD WE TRUST’ stamped thereupon, or have mobs of rabid believers storm the Roman senate, demanding that believers in Jesus be treated as the ‘head and not the tail’. Also, what kind of gospel has the American variety become? Hasn’t it become perverted by the lust for wealth, power, and recognition? Has the servitude spoken of by Jesus become replaced by high-profile clownish preachers, the thirst for power, racial hegemony, and division? Does God need a gospel like that?

Russell Moore... I dont think none of us want to be called white evangeliclas anymore.. well those that are tired of the title that are MAGA people ... we call it followers of Jesus.. all colors..

I believe tRumps conscience is sheered that makes him a reprobate and if we as children of God have no conscience oh well. God bless you both.

Wow. These two plumb the depths of incoherent, disconnected, selfrighteousness

I live in Nz and I read all sides of American politics and religion. You two are so self righteous and the whole tone of this exactly reveals this. The last 50 mts were appalling. You are fear mongering about Donald Trump victory and saying the violence could worse this the last. His last Presidency from the outset was sabotaged by the other side.i don’t know if Trump is best guy but as an Indian American is saying almost the same things as Trump yet he gets idolised raises a big question. I felt nor heard not one ounce of Christian grace in this discussion and if there is dark times I end up thinking people like you will encourage it as your line is the same as the lefts.

This is an undisciplined discussion because of contentions without supporting facts. Furthermore, Christianity isn't the only cultural system that's sick. The whole world is sick. You're propagandizing from a different angle.