I like Shocking Grasp as the "Counterspell Killer", as on caster enemy, removing the threat of their Counterspell can be huge

@logancuster8035

Жыл бұрын

Or their ability to cast Shield

@Mary_Studios

Жыл бұрын

It's also good if you've got an enemy close to you and want to do damage but also don't want opportunity attacks against you and half to waist your action to disengage.

@TeslaandDragons

Жыл бұрын

Also cast through your familiar.

@jacobrichardson9834

Жыл бұрын

It's even better as a sorcerer. Cast a leveled spell with Quickened spell and shocking Grasp to get the best bang for your buck

@greenplumberL

Жыл бұрын

You cast shocking grasp to debut enemies. I cast shocking grasp to make my squirrel familiar be a Pachirisu. We are not the same. (Actually, the couterspell stopper is really great advice, thanks!)

My wife in my current campaign is a Water Genasi Cleric who has the shape water cantrip (I know Monsters of the Multiverse undid this but we chose the older Genasi). She spent a lot of time making holy water and when we finally fought some vampires, one of them was restrained and she proceeded to use shape water to cause a constant flow of holy water on the vampire....effectively creating a holy water boarding as she interrogated it. We were all laughing so hard and it was my favorite use of this cantrip!

@francomuscellini1744

Жыл бұрын

This is so cruel... I love it

@leahwilton785

Жыл бұрын

I am currently playing a Water Genasi Cleric....... I definitely will be stealing this. Thanks !

@DearlyDepartedDaz

Жыл бұрын

It bugs me that, RAW, it is cheaper to buy holy water than make it.

@cjslime8847

Жыл бұрын

@@DearlyDepartedDazit cost equal which is what I hate with a lot of crafting

@DearlyDepartedDaz

Жыл бұрын

@cjslime8847 what rules are you using? RAW it literally costs more to make it yourself.

Regarding Shocking Grasp, as you both have stated, familiars CAN deliver touch based spells! So, send a bird to land on an armored guys shoulder - apply grasp. Enjoy the fun.

@KolmManison

10 ай бұрын

Make sure it's an owl because owls have Flyby, wouldnt want his buddy to whack your birb now, would ya?

@Cleretic

9 ай бұрын

Delivering a touch spell uses the familiar's reaction. It can then use its action to Disengage, giving almost the same benefit as flyby (except that the owl could still use Dash or Help while having the benefit of flyby).

@valeriomartino1638

4 ай бұрын

I took it in my wizard wth 2 lv of fighter , who had really high AC

@nicholasmathern527

4 ай бұрын

​@@KolmManison you're still right for redundancy, but.. shocking grasp removes their ability to use a reaction to bop your bird.

@casbot71

2 ай бұрын

Really nasty, use a spider. They won't even know its there.

One example of our group using mold earth in a campaign we had has now become famous (arguably infamous) to us: the Tenser’s floating elevator incident. We had a cliff we needed to climb and we knew it was a simple DC 15 athletics check. Unfortunately, all but one of us had dumped strength, so we weren’t too confident in this. We then had the idea, after careful reading of the spells “mold earth” and “Tenser’s floating disk”, that our gnome wizard could piggyback on our fighter (the only one actually climbing) with “Tenser’s floating disk active. He could then, as the fighter was climbing, use “mold earth” to move a 5ft chunk of dirt progressively up the cliff. Thusly meeting the requirements of the disk remaining no more than 10ft away from the wizard, and it also being no more than 5ft off the “*ground*”. The rest of the group just hitched a ride on the disk as it went up. Thus the even was later, for all time, referred to as “Tenser’s floating elevator”

I think it’s worth mentioning the open door aspect of Thaumaturgy. As long as a door isn’t locked, you can open it. That may not seem like much until you realize that being locked is the only condition. Got trapped doors? Open them from a distance. Stuck doors? Easy. A thousand pound steel door made for a giant? No problem.

@Tacobell1384

Жыл бұрын

I plan on using it as an intimidation tool. Have the door to the tavern blow in as you approach and then use it again to have the candles in the place either change color or dim as you enter.

@3nertia

Жыл бұрын

I mean, it's a Cantrip so just how ridiculous should a [DG]M let that get?

@theresnoracelikegnome

Жыл бұрын

@@3nertia I get your point, but in order to have a productive discussion about any rule, we need to all be talking about the same thing. Since there’s no realistic way to know how any given DM might house rule something, we have to use RAW(or our best understanding of it). Otherwise, the response to every point anybody ever makes is simply, “What if a DM rules otherwise?” To be clear, I think you’re very likely right to think that many DMs would put limits on this. I’m just saying that we have no way of knowing the details of those limits, and therefore can’t make decisions based on them.

@3nertia

Жыл бұрын

@@theresnoracelikegnome I was more asking of other [DG]M opinions :)

@theresnoracelikegnome

Жыл бұрын

@@3nertia Ah, I see. 😅 Personally, I don’t usually house rule unless something is extremely unintuitive(like the Invisible condition), it breaks the game(like Simulacrum) or slows it down play greatly(Conjure Animals). In a case like this, I’d rather let the players enjoy it, and just put locks on doors as needed.

One really niche situation where Shocking Grasp is a Godsend: preventing an enemy Caster from counterspelling. And since it's touch, your owl familiar can deliver it for you. Situationally, you could set yourself up for a big spell that they can't counterspell depending on your initiative vs your familiars vs the enemy, but its definitely useful for making sure an ally doesn't get counterspelled

@losttoothbrush

Жыл бұрын

Also i like to use it on melees to protect other allies. Like your Wizard is being attacked by a Berserker? Shocking Grasp it and your Wizard doesnt need to spend a Slot for Misty step or smth else.

@crownlexicon5225

Жыл бұрын

@@losttoothbrush I disagree. An attack roll to maybe/probably be able to get away from 1 enemy? Or instead use the action to disengage? Or, if you must use the slot, misty step? I'd rather guaranteed

@losttoothbrush

Жыл бұрын

@@crownlexicon5225 you misunderstood. Im not saying you should use it as a wizard. Im saying you should use it as as a melee spellcaster (For example a Eldritch Knight) to SAVE your allied Wizard being attacked.So if it lands you stay in melee range of the enemy and your allied Wizard can move freely and maybe cast smth more useful

@crownlexicon5225

Жыл бұрын

@@losttoothbrush ah. In that case, it does sound *more* viable, but I'd probably still want my EK friend (were I the wizard) to simply attack. Their INT is probably mediocre at best, so their chance to hit, and therefore save me from AoOp is even lower than if I were to use it myself.

@fuzzyjuan6069

Жыл бұрын

I'm planning to have it on Arcane Trickster rogue for advantage to get sneak attack if no other means is available. A good backup when you need advantage I think and you have a spare cantrip slot.

Shape Water was instrumental in our Icewind Dale game. It was very handy when the ice remained since there was no reason for it to melt. We used it to create sleds, craft guideposts, leave messages for one another, break locks, cover pitfall traps, and once dropped a huge block of ice onto a dragon's head. Shenanigans though.

@Rory20uk

4 ай бұрын

I think as long as water is around the varied utility makes it a high A - the force freezing water can place on objects is immense and who doesn't like creating cover as hard as stone?

@Nathan_Talisien

Ай бұрын

That ice block would do more damage than most people assume at first glance... A little research and math shows it to be more than a bit deadly. The cantrip affects a 5' × 5' × 5' cube of water, so there is a total of 125 cubic feet of water converting to ice; water weighs roughly 62 pounds per cubic foot, meaning that ice block weighs in at around 7,800 pounds, just shy of four tons- or, put another way, it weighs about as much as TWO Toyota Rav4's.

A player at my table once slipped into a cliff. The druid was beside them and asked "can I make an opportunity attack on my friend to yoink 'em up with thorn whip?", and honestly, not only I allowed it, but the falling one was saved and we still talk about that moment today because that scene was very appreciated and that moment was the cherry on top.

The absolute look of poison and dejection on Kelly's face looking at Monty trying *so hard* to push him to lower his score on Shillelagh XDDD

Spare the dying is only good on Grave Clerics because it's bonus action and at range so if two people go down and you don't have healing word or a spell slot to cast it at you can bring one person up and spare another person.

@maxi1ification

Жыл бұрын

One of the reasons I love the grave cleric

@NachostheXth

Жыл бұрын

Tbh I think Grave cleric spare the dying is basically a whole separate spell, like how Arcane Trickster mage hand is on a different level to the basic version. Definitely very good as a ranged bonus action though, hot damn.

@KlodasRaw

Жыл бұрын

Totally, the grave cleric in my game uses it all the time. Even occasionally on enemies that they wanted to take alive.

@FusionYGO

Жыл бұрын

You can also use it to keep a single enemy alive to interrogate for information.

@ryuteki

Жыл бұрын

Spare the dying is fine if you're playing level 1-2, and is ehhhhh maybe ok at levels 3-4. If your game allows swapping out cantrips I'd take it on a level 1 character - only after failing the argument that we should have been starting at level 3 though.

Kelly: yelling about thunderclap making a loud noise Also Kelly: uses thunderstep with Sebastian constantly

@HistorysRaven

Жыл бұрын

"What's the worst that can happen?"

@TheKaisarwilhelm

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, and thunderstep is 300'. I love how shatter doesn't do this.

@claire3614

Жыл бұрын

To his defense, at least with thunderstep he can get TF out of there quickly and leaves a shit ton of damage behind

@stevenmike1878

Жыл бұрын

i think thunderclap having the ability to knock anything back 5 feet on a hit would be a great upgrade to the spell, if not that, then have thunderclap, sword burst, and word of radiance, remove the enemy's ability to take a reaction until the end of the current turn. so it make the spell a "get off me spell" in case they get surrounded they can move out of the area without provoking attacks of opportunity. like the spell acts like a very quick flash bang to get out.

@k1llwizzy

Жыл бұрын

Also just before Toll the dead, when that spell literaly makes the sound of a bell. also audible around the target

I agree with the D rating for Spare the Dying, but I just want to point out that familiars can deliver touch spells, which means that you could send your owl to stabilize someone instead of having to run there yourself.

@michaelcross7665

Жыл бұрын

I also feel like spare the dying is probably more useful for stabilizing NPC's who often die outright when hitting 0. If I were the DM I'd allow it at least

@lietz13

Жыл бұрын

Extremely niche interaction, mostly because a familiar is most commonly with wizard, chainlocks, arcane tricksters. Those cannot access spare the dying normally. A feat or specific race is necessary, though magic initiate find familiar is common. The exception though is tome Warlocks with book of ancient secrets picking both spells. Still a lot of magic to compete with an unskilled hireling carrying a healer's kit.

@user_.b

Жыл бұрын

@@lietz13 Undying Warlock patron gets spare the dying (like just granted to them for picking the subclass) and actually is seemingly meant to dip into support niche stuff a bit so it works well for them

@steave435

Жыл бұрын

@@lietz13 Certainly, but I don't think that a cleric taking magic initiate for find familiar would be crazy.

@cjslime8847

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelcross7665 We used it the other day where i had a Concentration healing spell up so we could heal and then bring the enemy up

Believe it or not, we have a 4th level party and the brand new cleric used Spare The Dying and saved 3 characters from deaths door! She successfully maneuvered through the battle and made contact with multiple PC’s to bring them back from 0. I had already failed a saving throw so imagine how happy I was to have this ‘D’ class spell being me back from the dead:) 41:47

@inventor121

Жыл бұрын

Spare the dying is not a D tier Cantrip, especially when used with Find Familiar. It's the goalie of cantrips, the last line of defense. I always make sure I have it if possible since the party healer can go down. On another note, you can very easily run out of spell slots at low levels, or even higher levels, and healing word can only target one person per spell slot. Spare the Dying can by used an infinite amount of times. A 4th level cleric only has 7 spell slots, Guiding Bolt, Spiritual Weapon, and Shield of Faith are going to take up most of their spell slots. which leaves precious few for a healing word or cure wounds for the entire party.

@lordzaboem

Жыл бұрын

Spare the Dying: This is my favorite cantrip, and the one I use the most often. Yes, I use it more than Prestidigitation. All of the comparisons to other modes of healing are done with the assumption that it's being used to aid an ally PC. If that was the only application, I would agree. That's not how I use it. I use it on the innocent bystanders who I want to save but I don't have or want to use the resources to save EVERYBODY. This is an almost must-have choice for good aligned clerics, because if they don't choose and use it, some NPC authority figure should darn well be questioning why they did not. I use it on the enemies. An unconscious enemy can be dragged back to town for the higher bounty. An unconscious enemy can be safely questioned for invaluable intel. You know darn well that you cannot talk your allied Warlock PC into using non-lethal damage, so don't even go there. After interrogations, then the enemy can be killed. It's an almost must-have choice for evil aligned clerics also. It's free to use, has zero weight encumbrance, and unlike ability checks, never fails. At worst, this is a B tier cantrip.

@anomaliecosmos

Жыл бұрын

​@@lordzaboem I love this! It's sort of like the flavor/universe implications of the existence of Mending - they kept talking about how if they had it irl they'd make millions as shoe-mending tycoons, but if everyone had it, I think planned obsolescence and possibly capitalism (if you add something like Goodberry) would just be dead in the water. Similarly, Spare the Dying seems like something that casts a massive shadow over any incidental death of a minor npc or bystander that ISN'T prevented by someone who could've taken it. I could see plot points being developed around that, so...C for Circumstantial maybe?

@WolfHreda

Жыл бұрын

And with Grave Clerics, it's even stronger.

@Kveets

Жыл бұрын

Just use Medicine to stabilize

Shocking grasp can be quickened with something like inflict wounds as a really cool melee spell damage option. Also person most likely to pick it up is a wizzard and shocking grasp can be cast through familiars to help allies escape bad situations too.

@jaytaytay3205

Жыл бұрын

Came here to say Shocking Grasp did not get the credit it deserves. Updoot.

@holyrod2001

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, a shocking grasp familiar is really to get an ally out of a pinch, or to shut down wizards. I'd give it B tier

@KatieMaeAndTheLubrication

Жыл бұрын

I Have a distant spell sorcerer that uses it and its great. A sorcery point to get an ally out of a tight spot? worth it.

@watchstuffalot_4779

Жыл бұрын

Top tier for tome boon warlocks.

@willieoelkers5568

Жыл бұрын

Honestly I’d say Shocking Grasp is definitely good for Bladesingers since they can combo it with a weapon attack at level 6. I also like it for an Arcane Trickster because if you want to get out of melee you can try to hit with it first and then if it hits you can then use the Bonus Action to do something like Dash or Hide

Something not mentioned, Shillelagh counts as a magical weapon from level 1.

I want to stand up for Spare the Dying. It's amazing for sparing enemies without bringing them back up. Trying to give them a second chance, capturing alive, missions that require no death, spare the dying is an amazing roleplay cantrip. I use it a ton on enemies, the sick, etc.

@wabbitrage8358

8 ай бұрын

bring a healer's kit, does the same thing

The great thing about Thorn Whip is that, even though it has a 30 foot range, it's a melee attack, so you don't need to worry about disadvantage if someone's already in melee with you.

@isaacgraff8288

Жыл бұрын

Two of the best uses I have seen for this spell, Pull a target into a Barbarian. Second was a utility that I allowed, variation of a grappling hook.

@mrbean3470

Жыл бұрын

Artillerist using thorn whip and force ballistas was quite the partner to the druid's spike growth. Was fun having having a tree hugging wood elf and a warforged robot as unlikely partners.

@bamfalu

Жыл бұрын

Holy crap, this is a huge til ö

@gabrielrockman

Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately, I had a DM that would give enemies "cover" if I was trying to cast the spell through an ally, even though it's a melee attack. Not much you can do in that situation. At least he let me reroll the character about halfway through the campaign.

@DrakeAurum

Жыл бұрын

@@gabrielrockman That's by the book. The cover rules make no differeniation between melee and ranged attacks.

Shocking grasp on a battle field control sorcerer with Distance Spell meta magic can be cool

@ranekeisenkralle8265

Жыл бұрын

On a wizard with an owl-familiar...

Now I want them to do a tier ranking like this for every spell level.

@drkryo2935

Жыл бұрын

There’s way too many spells to do that, it took 3 videos to cover just the cantrips so the spells would take something like 20 videos or more to cover them all

@Golem501

Жыл бұрын

@@drkryo2935 I do not see a problem with that... except maybe a bit of time constraint but no rush right? I would wonder if it should be done for all spells or for spells per class.

@Dakarai_Knight

Жыл бұрын

@@drkryo2935 Yea I also see no problem with this.

@ronniemagatti3342

Жыл бұрын

Same here!

@kevinnoorman4815

11 ай бұрын

Yes please to spell tier rankings

I think it's interesting that Thorn Whip is a melee spell attack at 30 feet. In theory, it could be Spell Snipered for 60 feet.

@Centaur255

Жыл бұрын

oh, it's better: you can strike a Paralyzed creature from 30ft away and get auto-crits, as the Paralyzed condition turns all melee hits - not hits within 5ft, as that would disqualify reach weapons - into crits. Hold Person + Thorn Whip on a Nature Cleric is PAINFUL to your humanoid foes

@Martick05545

Жыл бұрын

I remember when you could spell sniper on GFB and Booming Blade.

@TheKaisarwilhelm

Жыл бұрын

@@Centaur255 not just paralyzed. Think about hitting prone enemies. Getting advantage for melee vs disadvantage for ranged.

@poopfart9801

Жыл бұрын

@@TheKaisarwilhelm prone is actually 5 feet so it doesn't work

@martinnicholls3565

Жыл бұрын

Control Flame is decent for characters that like dim light since you can turn out lanterns and torches.

Shocking Grasp is good for someone with a Familiar, since they can cast touch spells through them. In fact, a genius use of Shocking Grasp is to use it to get rid of an enemy mage's reaction so that your other party members can cast their big spells without fear of being Countered. Which makes it B tier, in my opinion. It has its uses, both as a last resort and as a very interesting disabling attack, but most people won't want it unless they explicitly build for it.

@3lyas134

Жыл бұрын

Shocking grasp is also one of the few touch spells wizards get that directly does damage

Shocking Grasp makes for a good combo with familiars, especially with an owl’s flyby ability.

@mel-burnes

Жыл бұрын

i mean if you land the hit, no need for an owl, since the reaction is taken away

@Negeta

Жыл бұрын

@@mel-burnes The owl is for when you miss. It’s handy to shut down enemy reactions from a safe distance while minimizing danger to your familiar.

@mel-burnes

Жыл бұрын

@@Negeta oh, absoluuutely! it's just that with shocking grasp other familiars become slightly more viable (esp if they choose to Dodge)

@adepressedcatwithabadnicot246

10 ай бұрын

​@@mel-burnesok? But if your non owl familiar misses they can still use the reaction to one hit kill your familiar.

@mel-burnes

10 ай бұрын

@@adepressedcatwithabadnicot246 that's what i said

A couple things on Word of Radiance; 1st with this spell you choose targets within range whereas Sword Burst can cause friendly fire. 2nd since Word of Radiance is a Cleric Cantrip, Clerics can use their 8th level feature (most of the time) to increase their damage. 3rd some clerics are melee oriented with Heavy armor (War in particular) so the times that they are surrounded are more common.

@nubZerkerable

Жыл бұрын

I was going to say this - Word of Radiance is actually awesome! No somatic component, so my Life Cleric can pump this out without War Caster. As the only party member using a shield, my little dwarf has the highest AC and is built to tank. Based on their ratings, this should make it B for Build.

@markaphilpott

Жыл бұрын

Completely agree. For tank clerics who like to get in there and who have a decent AC this is a great for low level mobs, or to soften up targets for the front line party members. A go to spell for me after I’ve buffed my party and used up higher level spells.

@moregenies1

Жыл бұрын

I've used word of radiance with spirit guardians and spiritual weapon to basically make my unapproachable. It's really good for minions, summons, and anytime there's 3 enemies nearby. The other aoe cantrips not so much lol

Shocking Grasp is one of my absolutely favorite cantrips. It is a fantastic "oh s***" button, which I have used on almost all of my casters. "A" Grade at least in my book

I like to use Spare the Dying for roleplay with my divine soul sorcerer, I dont often use it for my party, but it's fun in helping npcs or villages that have been attacked

@kethryverisk4224

Жыл бұрын

I use it for enemies that we want to question once the battle is over.

@jayh7654

Жыл бұрын

The Problem is you can just make a DC 10 medicine check to stabilize them instead (yea its not guaranteed but) but this difference is not worth taking the cantrip (Hell even if you fail they could stabilize on their own cause that means they are still making death saves)

@DurandalsFate

Жыл бұрын

My Divine Soul is never giving up this cantrip. (1.) I find I get a lot of intelligence and roleplay value out of keeping certain enemies and bystanders alive without popping them back to consciousness in the middle of the battle. Almost everyone's worth more alive than dead. (2.) As a result, I like to have a reliable option for this, not subject to disadvantage, and not relying on me investing in a skill proficiency. (3.) Thanks to Metamagic Adept, I have Distant Spell, Subtle Spell, Twinned Spell, and Quickened Spell; I keep people alive in situations where a Healer's Kit won't do the job.

We've had our cleric use Word of Radiance a number of times to great effect. Usually they'll alternate between Toll the Dead and Sacred Flame, depending on the specific enemy, but we've had several times where there's a horde of minions and he just wades in and uses WoR. He's heavily armored enough that it's not a big risk, and he'll get three or more enemies at a time.

@rafaelbacelar1757

Жыл бұрын

And World of Radiance don't hit your allies. But using dodge if you are a tank+spirit guardians clerig may be better.

@nondescriptcat5620

Жыл бұрын

yea WoR is fine as part of the Cleric Incremental Damage Over Time Stack, along with Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon. they seem to think my Orb Lizard Twilight Cleric doesn't *want* to be surrounded by various miscreants as it melts their faces with divine lasers. most turns you Toll, but if you have multiple jerks on you WoR adds up pretty well on top of everything else.

@RJWhitmore

Жыл бұрын

@@nondescriptcat5620 The problem is that this comes down to, why are dealing damage to the enemies? It seems obvious, right? You want dead enemies. Right, but why do you want dead enemies? Because dead enemies don't hurt you anymore. However, there is a problem with damage in that until that last hit point is removed it essentially does nothing. If you have Spirit Guardians up and at the start of their next turn they'll die to it, then WoR does nothing. If they wont die, will WoR's pitiful damage make the difference? Can you even know this? So the result may, and almost always is, that WoR does effectively nothing - *even* when used. What does Dodge do? It makes it so you don't get hurt. Everyone can Dodge. It does this even before enemies die. With a number of enemies (which is the use case for WoR), this is almost guaranteed. If you are Concentrating on a spell (which you should be), it also can help not drop that spell and you are contributing more than a cantrip by keeping up that Concentration. So, you could WoR (potentially multiple turns) and make no difference over not having done so - or worse, lost Concentration-, or you could Dodge (potentially multiple turns) and be next to guaranteed to have made a difference. That is the problem with WoR even for tank casters. For squishy casters, you really just want to get away (Misty Step, Disengage behind some other people, etc.); not even chance that WoR might possibly, if very lucky, make a difference. And yeah, WoR cost you a cantrip slot, so there is also that.

@nondescriptcat5620

Жыл бұрын

@@RJWhitmore that's a colossally stupid way to think about it. yes, if you do additional damage on your turn with WoR, it makes it more likely they will die to either that, your spirit guardians, or your spiritual weapon. if damage is meaningless unless it's lethal, then the other DoT you're running are equally meaningless. which they aren't. not every scenario requires dodging. in full plate with a shield, i'm already usually the hardest member of the party to hit, and i *want* things to try hitting me instead of the squishy arcane casters.

@RJWhitmore

Жыл бұрын

@@nondescriptcat5620 Ok, so here are two choices; 1) You stay safe, while the enemy will die in 3 turns; 2) You can do an extra point of damage every turn, which has a slight chance of having the enemy die in 2 turns, but your chance of taking damage is much higher. Which do you take? Yes, the values are different, but not that different. You can't look at this as just 'I gain extra'. There is a cost. Look, if I say 'Here is a donut, you can have it for £10,000'. If you just say, 'ah, well a donut is better than no donut, so it would be collosally stupid to not take the deal' then we are on such different wavelengths that we might as well stop here. You *have* to evaluate the cost to know whether you are getting a good deal. Damage is great, really great. Tiny damage at significant cost, however, may not be. This is especially true if it doesn't actually kill the enemy any faster, which tiny damage tends not to do. You're next argument may be 'well, maybe it does make a difference at some point'. Sure, although it is very difficult to know this without cheating, but even then there is an opportunity cost in taking this cantrip vs something else. Otherwise, just have all the cantrips.

I'm a little surprised about the ranking for Shocking Grasp. I'd put it at an A-tier myself. Taking away an enemy's reaction is huge, whether you want to make it safe for all your allies to run past without being attacked or stop a magic user from being able to cast Counterspell (or any other reaction spell). It does work best on a Sorcerer with Twin Spell and/or Distant Spell though so I do understand the B tier rank.

Shocking grasp deserves a B- tier because it can be used well in armorer builds

@poppazoz

11 ай бұрын

I feel like shocking grasp should be improved to a higher-tier, has anyone ever suggested making it usable as a reaction in place of an attack of opportunity for a spellcaster?

Shocking grasp is one of only two attack roll based cantrip that you can throw out as an opportunity attack with war caster without suffering disadvantage from being in melee range, the other being thorn whip. Also, you can cast it from your familiar, which is nice. I don’t know if you could still cast it from your familiar from within Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere, but if it can that might make that spell better. And it can deal damage and still get you out of melee range of melee focused enemies.

@soulisthegoal96

Жыл бұрын

Came here to say this.

@snazzyfeathers

Жыл бұрын

100% agreed. You could misty step away or use some other spell or subclass feature...or you could cast a cantrip for free and then run away.

@fortunatus1

Жыл бұрын

I came here to say this and its useful to get your allies out of difficult situations. It'd be better if there were more bonus action spells in the Wizard repertoire. As a warning, Disengage is usually safer than to use on an enemy within 5 ft. If you have advantage to hit (metal armor or flanking), then I'd say go for Shocking Grasp.

@RLKmedic0315

Жыл бұрын

And metamagics make Shocking Grasp pretty awesome. But this video is just about cantrips only, so I understand why it was not discussed.

@snazzyfeathers

Жыл бұрын

I think its a sleeper cantrip. Shocking Grasp denies an enemy their reaction - it doesn't just deny an opportunity attack from an enemy. So if you're fighting another spellcaster you could straight up deny them their ability to cast reaction spells like counterspell.

I used Word of Radiance to pretty good effect on my twilight cleric in a Strahd campaign, it’s the ultimate defense against Shadows

One interpretation of Lightning Lure is that the saving throw determines whether the target is pulled, but if it is already next to the caster, it still takes the damage regardless of the saving throw. (Imagine parenthesis around the phrase "The target must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be pulled up to 10 feet in a straight line toward you" and a separate set of parenthesis around "take 1d8 lightning damage if it is within 5 feet of you") That would make it one of the few ways of dealing damage that didn't require either a to-hit roll or a saving throw. The other limitations of the spell like range would still deter many casters from taking it. It would be powerful in the same ways that Magic Missile is powerful for delivering modest but reliable damage.

I always assumed that Spare teh Dying was for bounty hunter missions where you need to bring the guy back alive

@DonkeyOnAUnicycle

Жыл бұрын

Just make a DC 10 medicine check

@nathanfivecoate5848

Жыл бұрын

​@@DonkeyOnAUnicycle Not always that someone has Medicine

@lordzaboem

Жыл бұрын

@@DonkeyOnAUnicycle If you really want to risk an entire quest goal on a single chancy ability role, yeah that's an option. A character who is actually supposed to be a healer shouldn't risk any life, ally nor enemy, on that if it can at all be avoided. We can argue that other options leave the healer free to take more damaging magic, but that seems like player meta-game logic at its worst.

Shocking grasp is on the artificer spell list and so is thorn whip. these two spells go really well with the armorer or battlesmith subclasses. those two actually want to go face to face with their enemies thornwhip is easily flavored as an extendable barbed wire whip with an integrated winch shocking grasp is a neat upgrade to the thundergauntlets of the armorer or essentially the emergency handshake shocker in the palm. both make for really funny impromptu gadgets for flavoring artificer cantrips

I found your channel from this cantrip series! You guys are entertaining to watch and I like hearing your ideas for each spell. I’ll definitely have to check out more of your videos!

Spare the Dying is useful during very early play, when people go down a lot and you don't have many Spell Slots. But at some point the cleric is just gonna Healing Word them, and then it's time to switch it out.

@ryanwilliamson5714

6 ай бұрын

But ones a bonus ones an action (unless you are grave domain then both are bonus) so you could pick up two in that scenario but yes, mass healing word to an extent makes it obsolete

@ryanwilliamson5714

6 ай бұрын

That being said, i get your point. I think its more for roleplaying than actual use tbh

I think you should look at Primal Savagery again, because last time you forgot that its damage scales. You know, like almost every other damage cantrip does.

@fishsticxz

Жыл бұрын

Yes! Justice for primal savagery!

@Chaosmancer7

Жыл бұрын

I keep getting shocked it was rated so low. It is a very good cantrip

@biaaniperez5468

Жыл бұрын

I agree! Justice for Primal Savagery. Can't believe they rated it so low :(

@Centaur255

Жыл бұрын

True, the damage scales. I think it's still a bad cantrip (and probably D tier), but for different reasons than they took. 1) It's a melee cantrip, so the vast majority of people who get access to it are using it as a holdout weapon, so it's not a high choice at that point. 2) Since it requires a hand for somatic components, you can't use this with a shield and a spell focus, so druids are opting to dramatically reduce their Armor Class to use this. I'm also seeing few other classes who would want to this with Magic Initiate, as it would run into the same issue with shields for clerics, would preclude monks and rangers from taking the Attack action on their turn (and other martials would have the added issue of not having a high Wisdom score), and every spellcaster class (assuming they are also investing in a good Wisdom score) would be more tempted to take Thorn Whip over this due to synergies. 3) Acid damage is okay until it's not. It's not a common vulnerability, and it's not a commonly resisted damage type, so it's a very "meh" damage type to have. This is also why Acid Splash is commonly passed over. 4) Druids (sans Land Druids) have such a small number of known cantrips that you are passing up on far better damage options long term by taking this one. Assuming you want a utility cantrip (like Guidance) at 1st level, your other cantrip is likely Shillelagh as it does more damage on average (and even at maximum) than Primal Savagery. By the time you hit 5th level, you're better off using a ranged cantrip to supplement your melee damage and other abilities in wild shape. So there's just not a lot of reason to take it. If you want to do 1d10 damage, you're actually better off taking 1 level of fighter/barbarian and grabbing a martial weapon

@TheHornedKing

Жыл бұрын

@@Centaur255 1) Yes, but we're compairing it against other melee cantrips (of which I do prefer Thorn whip, but all I'm saying is that Primal Savagery isn't a bad choice). 2) I hadn't considered that, but I have never heard of anyone caring. 3) Your reasons why acid dmg is "meh", are the same reasons why I think it's good. Not as good as magical bludgeoning dmg, but better than most other dmg types, and unlike Shillelagh this damage scales. 4) "you are passing up on far better damage options long term by taking this one." Yet you grab Shillelagh, which is even worse long term for your average druid. It's better until yout hit lvl 5, then Primal Savagery becomes better, and just keeps getting better. I would grab Shillelagh on a character that can get extra attack (or a spores druid), otherwise I would rather grap Primal Savagery.

Because Sword Burst is a Cantrip, it can actually pair well with a casting character who wants to Misty Step out of a bad situation. Sword Burst. Misty Step away. Which isn't *a lot* of damage, but it's more damage than just Misty Stepping.

@NovelVanguard

Жыл бұрын

That’s not a bad idea

@CrownlessStudios

Жыл бұрын

Or just Misty Step and Eldritch Blast. It's not a dex save and can still hit multiple targets.

@flandarz1

Жыл бұрын

@Kevin Lemley If you're a Caster with Eldritch Blast, that is definitely the superior option. Well, as long as you're high enough level to get multiple blasts. Let me be clear, I'm not saying this is a *good* option. If you're a caster and you got into a situation where you need to Misty Step, you're already in a bad place. I'm just saying that Sword Burst *can* be useful in the specific circumstance where you have Misty Step and get surrounded by 2+ enemies.

@CrownlessStudios

Жыл бұрын

@@flandarz1 right, but that gets into what they said in the video - are you really going to waste a cantrip known spot on something that's only okay in a very particular situation?

@Peter_Cordes

Жыл бұрын

Sure, that works as a discount Thunder Step (3rd), at the cost of both your action and bonus action.

Word of Radiance is Underrated by them. yes it suffers from the Things that Swordburst has about AOE but there are two important things that make it better than a D Tier... 1. it is radiant damage 2. it allows you to exclude injuring allies. These two things make it stand out as being considerably better... don't get me wrong it is still C tier but it is a spell that saved the day for me in a Fight with a fight with multiple shadows (Vulnerable to Radiant and resistant to most everything else.) also take this on a divine soul sorcerer and you can increase the size of the aoe of the spell With distant spell.

@robertdevito6442

10 ай бұрын

word of radiance is the cantrip bringing my build together as a front line battle medic. my spells were the only thing worth attacking with, and when I was tanking it was the only cantrip safe to cast as a grave cleric.

@enriquegallicambiaso

8 ай бұрын

I agree. They didn't considee that it excludes allies. And they didn't consider that is a cantrip offered to clerics. For a cleric is a good option as many clerics use heavy armor and end up a front up tanks. Clerics only get one attack per round so this might outclass even toll the dead in total damage. For a tanking cleric is a solid C.

I believe the use case for spare the dying (as 1 action cantrip) is that you can do it in the same turn as Healing Word (bonus action spell). This lets you stabilise someone (perhaps in the back line) and pump healing into your frontline defenders, or use healing word to bring up be someone unconscious in across the battlefield in the same round

@stevenmike1878

Жыл бұрын

spare they dying is really underappreciated because if someone goes down by chill touch or a necrotic spell that reduces there maximum hp total to 0 to where they cant be healed at all. spare the dying is that special rules lawyer cantrip "its not a heal it just stabilizes them at 0 hp"

I loved the Shillelagh discussion. I played a tome Warlock that took Shillelagh for one of my tome cantrips. Its like being able to turn on hexblade whenever you need to. That 3-foot halfling finished off an ogre and a 30 foot-tall skeleton with his Shillelagh. It might be a B-tier spell on paper, but it is S-tier in fun.

@MalloonTarka

Жыл бұрын

Smart. It's easy to forget it lets you use your spellcasting abiilty rather than necessarily wisdom for the attacks.

Word of radiance can be decent if you’re a frontline cleric. I took it on my forge cleric who was the tankiest character in the party. I still used it way less than toll the dead, but it had its moments in combination with spirit guardians and telekinetic.

@JuckiCZ

Жыл бұрын

It also pairs well with BA spells. One obvious example is AoE cantrip for action when surrounded by enemies and then BA Misty Step to safety.

I like Spare The Dying for the roleplay aspect where you can use it on NPCs as the Hero who saves lives, but you don't want to "waste" a spell slot on them because you'd rather use that spell slot to help the party. It's also a cantrip I like to have for personal comfort. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it but not have it.

@siph0r154

Жыл бұрын

Yeah. I am also in the camp of: THIS IS NOT A COMBAT CANTRIP! My grave Domain Cleric has it and even with the range buff I would never use it on a Player if I had ANY other option. But in non-combat situations., I consider it fine. Still probably a C- cantrip overall but not utterly useless

@Valastarok

10 ай бұрын

Used it to torture a guy to death’s edge and stabilize repeatedly one time. Muy efectivo.

I've got a recent story about a D-tier cantrip saving the day! As you said, it's pretty circumstantial, but it felt really cool! One of my players took Spare the Dying for character reasons, and they were chasing a foe who realized escape was going to be impossible. So he bit down on a poison capsule that was intended to kill him right away and help him avoid interrogation. He was a low-level guy, so it didn't have to be super strong poison to pull that off. He fell unconscious, and my player cast Spare the Dying to stop him from actually dying from the poison. They tried to heal him, but the poison was still in his system and trying to kill him. They had to take him to medical facilities where someone higher level could cleanse him of the poison or something, but Spare the Dying is what kept him alive long enough to get there, despite his best efforts to die.

Shape Water is one of those spells that can be very full of shenanigans, bonus points if you have extra waterskins/jugs or a Decanter of Endless Water. Even for a baseline, remember that you can animate water then freeze it. Pull a mini version of the Creation Bard's special feature using only water! But what constitutes a simple shape can be a bit open ended- a ladder in my opinion is simple, a key can be pretty complex. Though with locked doors, just fill the hole with water and freeze. Loud, yes, but quicker and more effective than simply bashing away at it. Need a bowl or something? Should be pretty easy. With a source of a lot of water, like a river or Create Water spell or DoEW, the objects you can make are pretty large. Even more so if your DM interprets the five foot cube as the total volume of water, and not that the effect is completely restricted to a perfect 5x5x5 space. Anyway. I could rant about possibilities all day, but in general it's been at least a B tier cantrip for me. I usually bring it ahead of Prestidigitation, in fact; I find that in the strictest interpretations I can find more uses regularly for Shape Water than Prestidigitation, and it scales better with multiple casters.

@0Fyrebrand0

Жыл бұрын

I am definitely with you on how cool of a spell Shape Water is, but I have some thoughts on a couple things: *1)* A ladder of ice? Yeah, you could do that. Is the structural integrity of ice strong enough so that the slats of the ladder reliably support your weight? I have my doubts, but we'll let that slide. But at the same time, we'll let YOU slide, because you are trying to climb a ladder made of ice which is undoubtedly very slippery and unsafe. For 1 silver you can just buy a regular 10-foot ladder. *2)* Filling the hole of a lock with water and then freezing it? What's to stop the water from simply falling back out of the hole? Sure, water freezing and expanding as ice can literally split solid stone, but that's only because the water is trapped and has literally nowhere to go. Freezing water will always naturally take the path of least resistance, so you would need to create a perfectly water-tight seal and makes sure the lock is completely full of water and it can't get out or expand in any other way but to bust open the mechanism. And whatever is being used to seal in the water needs to be stronger than the metal that makes up the lock. I just don't see how you can create that circumstance realistically. The ladder thing, I could see a DM allowing it but making your perform a Dexterity check or something so you don't slip and fall. For breaking a lock... well, "Knock" is a 2nd Level spell whose main purpose is to open locks, and to even try to pick a lock with thieves tools takes a skill proficiency and an ability check. I can't imagine most DMs would let you recreate that for free with a cantrip, just because you have some water on hand.

@xInsane333x

Жыл бұрын

@@0Fyrebrand0 Ice is remarkably strong when it is thick enough. I'd seen some calculations on making a ladder or small platform that a person could stand on before but don't have them on hand. How difficult such a ladder would be to use is another matter. Same with carrying around a ladder, some DMs are a bit sticky about large amounts of equipment. Ice breaking a lock: You could pour the water in then stop the flow entirely, holding it in place for the second cast of Shape Water. How any of this interacts with real life physics is open to DM interpretation. Also worth noting the rapid freezing would likely make certain metals brittle and easily shattered, but fancier metals like mithril probably aren't as affected. And, they are probably much more resistant to the internal ice popping the lock. While slow ice formation would expand to some degree along the open path, even at a slower rate there is still force exerted on the surroundings. The force may increase if the ice itself plugs the exit. A glass half full of water left in a freezer can shatter. Potholes in roads get worse partially by repeated freezing action of water. On the other hand though, this is much more rapid freezing. The rate of expansion is faster than the pressure can be relieved by ice pushing out through the hole no matter how you slice it. As far as power level, there's some big downsides here vs Thieves Tools or Knock. For one it's going to be loud. Freezing and shattering metal is going to make a lot more noise than a lockpick or dedicated spell. Then there's a lack of versatility. Have a very sturdy lock that's not easily susceptible to freezing? Thieves tools would work way better. Have a magical lock, or other system like bars? Knock works but ice shenanigans probably not. Need it done in one turn? Shape Water probably would take a turn to fill the lock and another to freeze it. Long story short, it's all going to come down to the DMs interpretation and how they want physics to work in their world. Water might not expand as it freezes or something, who knows. \o/

@ErraticPlatypus

Жыл бұрын

The creation spell alone is awesome. The expansion of freezing combined with magically holding a shape is what makes this spell perfect for a clever mechanically minded player with a DM who's along for the story.

@xInsane333x

Жыл бұрын

@@ErraticPlatypus And makes for some interesting ways to blend mechanics and flavour for a "waterbender" type character based on a Arctic/Coast Druid or Storm Sorcerer or something. The Druid side can pick up a thematic spell at pretty much every level- Create/Destroy Water or Fog Cloud, reflavour Spike Growth as freezing the grass into ice blades, Tidal Wave, Ice Storm, Cone of Cold, and Tsunami for example. Sorcerer gets even more fun spells for the concept like Wall of Water and Rime's Binding Ice. I like the idea of making a character that can always do some minor thing relating to their element or concept, and Shape Water is great for water/ice/storm/nature mages to always have a relevant tool.

@DevKerrigan

Жыл бұрын

So far it seems people have failed to consider the 5x5x10ft barrier of water (or ice). Good for catching or reducing the power of projectiles (modern sidearms lose effective energy at a depth of about 7ft, longarms 5ft, bowfishing arrows at 10ft, standard arrows 6-8ft, to put it in EXTREMELY BROAD STROKES), creating difficult and impassable squares, generating visual cover or concealment, or physically blocking a gap in a combat scenario. With two active effects, you can animate, freeze, animate, freeze; to get both up is a slow process, but one can be brought online in a surprise round + 1st round. This is reading 'animate as a wall' and 'freeze into shape' as separate, non-stacking effects - both water effects lose 'become a wall' when their held effect changes to 'instantly freeze solid'. ...src: I run a Shape Water Druid with a 'barrier magic' theme. The effect is generally comparable to replicating Earth Barrier [5e], with dramatically different values [actionS to use, cantrip, somatic only, 30ft, water is permeable, Ice has fewer HP than stone] . Which I have/continue to workshop with the GM and commit my time in-play earning.

I was playing a pact of the tome warlock, so as someone who didn't have healing spells or proficiency in medicine or even a medicine kit, spare the dying was so useful-- I only used it once for a friend in combat, it came up much more for rescuing victims of monsters or our murder hobo player or for stabilizing an enemy we wanted to tie up while they were unconscious but had accidentally killed.

@megnuffin2862

Жыл бұрын

This! Our cleric has used Spare the Dying on enemies we needed to interrogate or hand over to authorities.

Im playing a storm sorcerer in one of the campaigns im in rn, shocking grasp is my go-to damaging cantrip. Admittedly I picked it up just cos its on-theme, but I love the image of my halfling flying out from a Fog Cloud and grabbing some guards face and electrocuting them before retreating back into the mist :)

@spencercurcillo8148

Жыл бұрын

I have a super weird character kind of built around it now. It's a Tempest Cleric 1 / Bronze Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer 7 at the moment. Character is a hill dwarf, so I get +1 HP per level from that, and +1 HP per level from Draconic Bloodline. Basically offsets the d6 hit die. Also, it abuses the Dwarf's ability to ignore strength requirements of armor and therefore I can wear full plate while dumping strength. Also use a shield. I have no problem being in the frontline with the tanks. Eventually I will take a 2nd level of Tempest Cleric for the channel divinity to max the damage on a sorcerer spell like chain lightning. The only real downside of it right now is the 25 foot move speed, which makes it hard to get into range since shocking grasp, and lightning lure are basically my 2 damage cantrips.

@specific3600

Жыл бұрын

@@spencercurcillo8148 you might ask your dm if you could get some boots of striding and springing at some point, my halfling has got a pair of those and it makes your walking speed 30 and triples your jump distance. Pretty nifty for those with short legs lol

would love to see you guys continue this with 1st level spells

As a Cleric I sometimes get all up into things and word of radiance has come in cluth a few times. Especially with swarms (before I leveld up enough for spirit guardians)

Shocking Grasp has decent utility in the loss of the reaction. I think it deserves a bit better ranking, but still a third choice cantrip. Sword bust has a couple of good use cases. Swarm creatures are a good target. In addition, and this is highly situational, I've used it to get into the middle of a group of casters concentrating on a shared spell, and break their concentration.

One of my favorite shenanigans I've thought of is having Thorn Whip while having the Mounted Combatant feat and a flying mount. So, you have advantage on the attack roll (thanks to the feat) and you can pull the target 10ft into the air at which point they are dropped, take the damage, and fall prone.

@kylethomas9130

Жыл бұрын

Did that with my Artificer and Levitate. What made it worse was my DM wasn't expecting us to reach the hostile NPC, let alone yeet him of his balcony.

@SkaalKesh

Жыл бұрын

I actually do that as a Wildfire Druid. Once you hit level 6, enhanced bond lets you have non-self range spells originate from your Wildfire Spirit. It is so satisfying to cast something like Spike Growth and be able to repeatedly drag them into the air, fall prone, take damage from the fall AND entering the spike growth, and now they have hardly any movement, which allows you to do it again. Rinse repeat. Hell, if you use Plant Growth instead, it doesn’t even take concentration, so you could have Conjure Animals, Heat Metal, etc. up while doing this.

I'm so pleased to see some Thorn Whip love! I play a Nature Domain Cleric and I love the imagery of shooting thorny rose vines to assail my foes, and dragging them around into Spike Growth or other hazards is *chef's kiss*

I'm surprised True Strike didn't get its own tier Possible fix: Play Pathfi....

@logancuster8035

Жыл бұрын

This Cantrip should be a bonus action

@maybevoldemort8995

Жыл бұрын

@@logancuster8035absolutely. You could even have it like booming blade where it is part of the action, but gives you advantage. It’d then synergies to well with rogues/other classes with one attack, without being too good on multiattckers

@atellismarin4607

Жыл бұрын

@@maybevoldemort8995 bonus action first first level spell lasts till end of round. Could have some use then.

@DessieDoyle

Жыл бұрын

I was really expecting True Strike to be the first "F Tier" ranking

@snazzyfeathers

Жыл бұрын

Even if it was a bonus action, you still wouldn't get advantage on your next attack because the cantrip specifies "on your next turn" so you would still have to wait an entire round to get advantage on a single attack. I like where you're going with it though, if the wording was "your next attack" and it scaled up to 5 attacks as you leveled I think it'd be worth it (provided it wasn't concentration)

Kelly's sass is really showing and this is awesome. I've never been more entertained in my life

Love, love, love the Dudes. Feeling particularly loving this morning, for some reason…

This was exactly the video I needed to help plan my next session. I'm helping my Cleric player level up since he's new and has no idea what spells to take. We end up running it a bit like a sorcerer where we don't exchange spell each day, but we don't pull our spells from the player's handbook, instead using a set of cards with each spell effect written on it. Those were a game changer for speed of play.

For shape water, because water expands when it freezes, I've seen it used as a wedge (the party was in jail, they had a jug of water, the druid moved it up to the bars and froze it, forcing the bars apart and they escaped) same druid has also used it to seal an entrance but freezing around the edges of a door. Dm has to allow it of course but the spell is very useful if you're creative

@Maxiiimoto

Жыл бұрын

Reminds me of Golden sun where you used puddles of water to lift things or create plattforms to run over things :D

@Phhase

Жыл бұрын

Yes. This is the kind of cool stuff I love. Ice expansion is no joke.

@robinthrush9672

Жыл бұрын

Or breaking open a lock but shattering it from the key hole.

@odinulveson9101

Жыл бұрын

Along with necrotic chill touch, shape water is another thematic cantrip for my Topaz dragonborn... buut we have not been near any water... yet thanks to my DM. Eyeballing my 1st lvl Chaos Bolt ready to use on saturday after we last time got to ch.lvl 2 *grins* cant wait!

@Rhyder77

Жыл бұрын

@@robinthrush9672 that's genius

I think Monty and Kelly overlook one place where Sword Burst and Shocking Grasp have some utility. Eldritch Knights can make a bonus action attack when they cast a cantrip and Bladesingers can swap one of their multi-attacks for a cantrip once they get multi-attack

@olorin6494

Жыл бұрын

And it’s not worthwhile in those situations either. Booming blade is the thing to do.

@afroamasiaca

Жыл бұрын

I still like your idea 🤙🏽

@robnewhouse5995

Жыл бұрын

if I was a tanky up close caster, I'd use it to allow my allies to reposition instead of running away myself. Other than that, it has always seemed to be a solution to a problem I create myself.

@ciphernine9296

Жыл бұрын

wizards and warlocks can cast through their familiars too, can be quite useful

@insidechaos4913

Жыл бұрын

@Olorin it has its uses denieing a reaction to allow another front line or midline character movement without the risk of a powerful opportunity attck could be worth more then potential damage. Plus the damage is going to happen with shocking grasp.

I think it's worth mentioning that Shocking Grasp can be cast from you Familiar, making it effectively a much longer ranged attack

@bdp4

11 ай бұрын

familiar+distant spell+spellsniper=180ft range, and if your a chain warlock your familiar can be invisible and move away from that location safely

I appreciate you keeping your videos PG / PG13. I am the head of a High School D&D Club and I feel confident that I can share your videos with my students / club members without getting fired lol. Carry on gentlemen!

Thorn whip is my favourite cantrip. Pulled a massive construct that was wrecking our party by jumping off a bridge, thorn whipping and then feather falling. Most surprised I’ve seen my DM and saved my party. 100% my favourite cantrip because of that

@M_M_ODonnell

Жыл бұрын

I spent a whole campaign with my druid's Thorn Whip as the #1 strategy when dealing with enemies who were in places just out of reach of the warrior types. I kept having to look up (because I couldn't believe it at first) that this is a pull of up to 10 feet with *no saving throw or opposed strength roll* -- and a lot of big (well, large but not huge, at least) nasty enemies with high strength actually don't have spectacular AC.

@maybevoldemort8995

Жыл бұрын

@@M_M_ODonnell yep, combining it with spike growth/moonbeam has also served me well!

@Danleone77

Жыл бұрын

Don't forget to use it defensively. There were multiple times I thorn whipped an ally to pull them out of a trap or save them from falling to their death.

@Hyde_Hill

Жыл бұрын

How did you get both Thorn Whip and Feather Fall? As they are available to different classes.

@Impath

Жыл бұрын

@@Hyde_Hill Maybe Magic Initiate or from a magic item?

If you are fighting in a dungeon (or anywhere), 9 times out of 10, enemies are going to hear you from 100 feet with or without Thunderclap.

@michaelcross7665

Жыл бұрын

Yeah as far as sound goes 100ft isn't actually as far as you first imagine

@Peter_Cordes

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelcross7665 Seriously. It's only 30 yards, a fraction of a football field. You can speak to people fairly easily at that range by raising your voice outdoors. Indoors, like in a curling rink when there are no other games, you barely have to do that. You could easily hear the clang of sword on shield from that range, or any shouted communication in the heat of battle. Maybe they mean 100 feet even through solid rock and closed doors, like 100 feet in the *worst* case, but much farther in line of sight or through open passageways with hard walls that reflect sound instead of absorbing. Spell and attack ranges in D&D are mostly very short compared to what you can normally see and hear if there aren't trees or walls blocking line of sight. The long range increment on longbow (600 ft) and light/heavy crossbows (320 or 400 ft) are ranges at which it's hard to see much detail about a person, or hear them except with a yell. (Disadvantage without the sharpshooter feat makes lot of sense, especially for a moving target). Still not really long range compared to modern firearms. 320 feet = 105 yards = a distance the fastest humans can run in about 10 seconds. Or at a jogging pace, maybe twice that, so not far in terms of chasing someone over open terrain. Magic like Eldritch Blast with Spell Sniper can be deadly over that range, or with Eldritch Spear + Spell Sniper, your EB has 600 ft range. But most spells are more like 150 ft range. I think a lot of DMs (at least on actual-plays I've watched, mostly Dimension 20 and Critical Role) sort of hand-wave closing distance and if conversation was happening before combat, the enemies will be right up in your face on the first round. Narratively, this always seemed really dumb, and incautious of the PCs to not keep their distance while talking. For gameplay reasons, having the melee PCs be able to do stuff right away is I guess more fun for them, but it would be to the party's advantage against melee enemies to start a fight at much longer range, and have a couple turns of free hits while they close the gap. Melee PCs could be getting their buffs going, like Rage, and maybe throw something. (So few PCs ever bring a javelin or throwing hammer / hatchet / knife / dagger unless daggers are their main weapon.) If terrain allows, the PCs can even be falling back while enemies are charging at them, leaving more rounds of free potshots before they close the range. (Or rounds during which the enemies could choose to run away instead of falling for this tactic.)

@michaelcross7665

Жыл бұрын

@Peter Cordes lol yeah, like just a normal human fighter can literally move 90ft in one turn with Acton surge. Barbarian can go 80. And this is without mobile feat or haste even, like they're vastly overestimating the distance here

@Peter_Cordes

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelcross7665 Yeah, a level 2 human rogue can go 90 every turn with dash + cunning-action dash. I think the number that doesn't make sense is the 100ft in the spell description. A sound / shock wave loud enough to do actual damage has got to be more like a cannon shot, audible for miles outdoors like across a city. (Where I live, in Halifax, there's a "noon gun" at a historical fort downtown, about a mile away from my house. It's easily audible from indoors with a window open if I don't have other sound on.) So like I said, maybe 100 ft is the worst-case minimum distance through walls and/or solid rock. (Sound in air mostly bounces off rock, instead of transferring into / through it.) But if you did play that it's never audible past 100 ft, then yeah Thunderclap wouldn't be much if any louder than normal battle sounds.

@michaelcross7665

Жыл бұрын

@Peter Cordes yeah, maybe the reason they overreacted is because we just intuitively know that thunder SHOULD travel farther. But this just doesn't. Why? No idea, hand wave magic something I would guess

Shocking grasp is underrated. Taking away a reaction is awesome for the whole party. Y’all should’ve said either B or A.

@jodinsan

Жыл бұрын

One thing I think people overlook with Shocking Grasp is you can use the Distant Spell Metamagic feat to make the range 30 feet, allowing you to use it at a relatively safe distance. Also, it's really good with a melee focused half caster like an Eldritch Knight or Bladesinger to stop enemy casters so the party spellcaster to unleash doom.

@OmniGman

Жыл бұрын

@@jodinsan Or use it when facing enemies who are in a body of water while you are on land near the edge of said body of water. Or use Shape Water to splash them or create a huge puddle (or a slippery sheet of ice since things that are cold conduct electricity more easily due to superconductivity) that they have to cross to reach you. Or use Shocking Grasp on a whip with metal wire woven in or set a wire trap, or just plain lasso them with the metal wire before electrocuting it (like that one bad guy in Ninja Scroll). Basically, there are plenty of ways to increase the range.

@RichWoods23

Жыл бұрын

@@OmniGman Superconductivity for a sheet of frozen water is not a thing. The ice is going to be at something like -15C not -255C.

@OmniGman

Жыл бұрын

@@RichWoods23 Oof! Right, well, at least now I remember why I failed high school physics class! Thanks for the correction!

@lietz13

Жыл бұрын

Short range and spell list availability really keep shocking grasp out of A.

So glad to see normal D&D content back!

Shocking Grasp gets way better when your familiar is harassing the enemy caster depending on counter spell

RPGBot has a page called Melee Cantrips Vs. Extra Atrack which includes damage calculations for the aoe cantrips. At 3+ targets it does more than booming blade, but it still has the downside of spreading damage instead of focus firing. Also there are some builds that involve growing larger to increase the area these spells including ones in your own square if you’re big enough. Fun ideas but not for every build to be sure

Having played with all of the classic druid cantrips - Magic Stone, Shillelagh, and Thorn Whip - I really think Shillelagh is a C+, and it's because druids don't get Extra Attack. An average of 8.5 damage on a single hit for your action is just... not good after 5th level. Magic Stone suffers from similar problems, but it's at least ranged and can be distributed to non-damaging allies. Thorn Whip, however?

@daniele4568

Жыл бұрын

I've saved so many squishy teammates with thorn whip.

@pda8987

Жыл бұрын

Ye, but how often you are in the melee range as Druid after lvl5?

@fishsticxz

Жыл бұрын

I'm saying this, shillelagh doesn't deserve all that hype! It can only be applied to two weapons on the druid weapon proficiency list too, making your build choices really narrow. Primal savagery also outscales it really fast as a melee cantrip. Shillelagh is just not that good.

@DojoBelok

Жыл бұрын

Shillelagh is still good with melee Druid. See Spore Druid. I have 20 AC (Warforged) and with spores as a reaction and doing lots of melee damage.

@BoPeep_42

Жыл бұрын

@@DojoBelok where are you getting lots of damage from? I have a spores druid I DM for and I had to homebrew some nice items to make the class effective in melee after 5th level… they just fall completely behind any other martial class with an average of 9.5+3.5 damage per turn. Yeah the spores help, but I would say they’re really better as tanks than as martial combatants.

Great discusses in this series, loved just listening the interchanges - very fun! thanks guys :) Spare the Dying having a range would be great - I do have it, on my cleric purely for emergency situations - like out of healers kits (which I also carry) and out of spells slots (I heal tactically - but there are times it's gotten really close) - all that said, I haven't had to use it yet, and hope to never have to. It does really make me want a familiar to go along with though for touch delivery.

@Niqesati

5 ай бұрын

The Grave domain Cleric has the ability to cast spare the Dying at a 30ft range

@loboradix7921

5 ай бұрын

@@Niqesati My clerics not Grave domain - so my ranges limited. :) Does significantly effects useability for that sub-class though, but that's kinda their thing 😉

Shocking grasp pairs really well with find familiar. Then you can cast it at range with your familiar and use the reaction reducing effect to help your allies.

I’m my campaign there were a bunch of guards coming down a 5 foot wide flight of stairs. I used my water skin to freeze some chains and free some prisoners, so our paladin confidently declared “I piss myself!” I then used shape water on his pee to freeze the stairs, 10 guards slipped on the ice and proceeded to pee themselves out of fear. This is the day pissbending was born.

@thomashauguel6811

Жыл бұрын

That is so wrong! (And yet, somehow a little right!) 😂

@TMRyan

Жыл бұрын

I’ve using Shape Water in a similar fashion to escape chains when our party was captured. I think theres a lot of applications for using the expansion of ice to break objects that might require a strength check normally.

Shillelagh is a great cantrip for a low level Druid. But past level 5 other Cantrips are scaling, so you probably want to switch it out later

@indigoblacksteel1176

Жыл бұрын

This would be true if you could switch it out later, but you can't switch out cantrips unless your DM isn't playing RAW. For anything getting into Tier 2 or higher, it's just not worth it. So I think this is a C, only because of its use before anyone gets a magic weapon and a few niche cases.

@seenyab4494

Жыл бұрын

@@indigoblacksteel1176 Druids get cantrip versatility from Tasha’s. Which means that at every ASI, they can swap out one cantrip they know for another one.

@indigoblacksteel1176

Жыл бұрын

@@seenyab4494 Ah, yes. I forgot they added that. When I played a Druid, they didn't have that and I felt trapped with that spell.

@fishsticxz

Жыл бұрын

Also it only interacts with two specific weapons on the druid weapon proficiency list, so it's useless if you don't specifically pick a quarterstaff or a club. I've never seen anyone in our group pick shillelagh, meanwhile primal savagery I've seen multiple times (and that one scales!)

Excellent, as always thank you. It might also be worth considering a species that gives a cantrip. I like Merfolk a lot for this.

I like word of radiance(My main character is going up against an army of undead soon so that'll help) You guys also missed the fact you can choose what targets it affects. I've used it to save a party member with bugs crawling all over him.

Toll the Dead always makes me think of Sabriel by Garth Nix. One of the best novels about a good aligned necromancer.

@Kurotekken

Жыл бұрын

I will check it out

@Chaosmancer7

Жыл бұрын

I haven't thought about that series in a long time. SUCH a good series

About shape water, I guess you could also create a small ice platform then use the "change direction of the flow of water" effect to push it through wherever you need to

I like the aspect of casting touch range spells through your (find) familiar; it certainly opens up the effectiveness of such spells and makes them much more viable for squishies such as wizards.

Shape water is super neat. There was one combat where we needed to get this Minotaur off this bridge 100ft above the river getting out of town. I’m playing this cool water genasi paladin with a cool home brew channel divinity option. Basically, whenever I dash for the next two turns, it’ll push back the creature about 15ft with a wave of water. I get my crazy strong barbarian friend to ride the wave with me. Using his sword and my dash, we knock the Minotaur off the bridge. We both jump after it. My friend gets a hit off as we’re falling, but I see an opportunity. I use shape water to create a water pillar underneath the Minotaur. I then freeze the pillar right before the beast falls on it. My dm describes the crack of its bones and its body goes limp. Hands down one of my coolest dnd moments.

It's so cute when you maintain your opinions but are so thoughtful towards each other anyway

Shape Water is one of my all time favorites! I’ve got a Druid who always holds a few water canteens and has used the cantrip to freeze doors shut, break locks, and freeze walls/ceilings to keep creatures from spider crawling.

@Blade_291

Жыл бұрын

Don't forget that you can also shape that eater into cover. You just need enough water to make a foot wide 1 foot thick wall of ice that has feet that stabilise it. Just needs to be tall enough for the ranged character to shelter behind it. Oh wait, you can make 2? Sounds like an ambush to me.

@doomkitty8386

Жыл бұрын

Make it holy water in a campaign against the undead and you can really have some fun.

@JuckiCZ

Жыл бұрын

Ice can break walls (if there is any hole/crack in it), same with steel,… It is one of the best out-of-combat cantrips IMO.

Thanks for this list. Great stuff and info!

I think Shocking Grasp is great if you are playing an Artificer, and a lot of their subclasses require you to be up close in melee.

@sterling_rat

Жыл бұрын

I will be taking it on my Armorer at either 10 or 14 because I am nearly always in the Infiltrate armor, but with so few cantrips available (must have mending for Humunculous and there are lots of great cantrips ahead of shocking grasp... mage hand, guidance, thorn whip... and we don't get even a third cantrip until level 10...) Artilerist needs mending for the cannon, so they can only have 1 attack cantrip up to level 10. I can't see shocking grasp being the one and only attack cantrip, since that would mean that once you run out of leveled spells, you are stuck in melee range attacks only. I would definitely pick something with range or with saving throws (since melee range doesn't matter with saves) I wouldn't take it on a battlesmith, since magic weapons use int. I wouldn't take it on an alchemist because it doesn't get the bonus from Alchemical Savant

@SelwynClydeAlojipan

Жыл бұрын

I gave my Artillerist the Create Bonfire and Firebolt cantrips so that I can put a bonfire on a target square and then keep concentration on it if necessary. On the next round, I could Fire Bolt any other creature while the bonfire deals damage to any enemy trying to go through the bonfire. I gave up on Mending the Eldritch Cannon since it dissipates after one hour anyway. However, once I get my third cantrip I am thinking of replacing the Create Bonfire with another useful cantrip like Mage Hand.

@sterling_rat

Жыл бұрын

@@SelwynClydeAlojipan hmmm... good point on mending. If the cannon does take damage, you can make a new one for an action and a spell slot. Mending takes a minute to cast, so it's not suitable for combat situations... you are better off just letting 1 be destroyed and spend a 1st level slot on a new one. Have you run into trouble with fire immune monsters?

@adepressedcatwithabadnicot246

10 ай бұрын

Dex Battle smith with a crossbow, they get past the steel defender, tase them run away and let your pet rend 'em.

I have used Spare the Dying via the Find Familiar delivery. Not sure that gets it out of D, but it has been more useful than I would've initially thought.

@RavingNutter

Жыл бұрын

Done the same thing but with Goodberries. Having that pigeon reviving 10 times per 1st level spell by plucking one out of his little satchel and dropping in a players mouth is both hilarious and effective. Way better than healing word.

@ShadenKitty

Жыл бұрын

My Tome Warlock took Spare the dying specifically to deliver via familiar in case the cleric is otherwise occupied such as doesn't have line of sight on all allies and doesn't "know" someone is down

Toll the Dead is one of my favourite cantrips so I'm really happy it scored so high for you two.

Firstly. Amazing job as always, Monthy & Kelly 😃😁❤️. Secondly. Here are some topics I find interesting that I couldn't find in d&d 5e official materials, that might be worth exploring (what do you think of those, what would be your solutions?): Druid (doesn't need to be this class): wildshaping or taking on features of other beings than beasts (aberration, celestial, construct, dragon, elemental, fey, fiend, giant, humanoid, monstrosity, ooze, plant, or undead). Fighter (doesn't need to be this class): able to change their equipment in the midst of combat based on what might be effective against their enemies (thinking something like Erza Scarlet from FairyTale) Gods: making them approachable, some rules for interaction with them (deciding whether they are being of that world or whether they just influence the world from beyond the material plane, CR, Statblock, good, neutral and evil + motives for each) (bonus: becoming a god/birth of a god/killing a god, meaning, hierarchy, system, daily life,...) Leveling up: recommendations for low, mid, high and extreme tiers of play, level caps, multiclassing, beyond level 20, (stakes, enemies, goals at each tier of play) Becoming a PC: reliving the life up to the starting point (via dream/remembering the past in a conversation with a character/while praying to a god/ ...) transition from 4hp villager character to a 1st level class PC, commonness of classed characters more than 4hp villagers within village Summoner: basically d&d 5e equivalent of Pathfinder 2e Summoner + ability to merge with the Eidolon, mechanics (wizard, sorcerer, cleric, warlock subclass/feat enabling the merging with summons/whole new class/spell + scaling) Tech artificer: less magicky more science dependant inventor, influencing the fantasy world, from handgun to Ironman to giant mecharobot Monster PC's: aberration, beast celestial, construct, dragon, elemental, fey, fiend, giant, humanoid, monstrosity, ooze, plant, or undead, compatibility, changes, unique abilities, motives Equipment: Armors, Weapons, utilities, (magic compatibility, (does damage + spell modifier, by spending spell slots spells/magical effects/damage boost/defense boost/effect can be cast through it), evolving/upgrading the equipment instead of exchanging it for something else and getting rid of it, damaging/repairing/broken equipment, inventing/designing/making/crafting new equipment) Space time travel: invaders/moving out, enemy/friendly (request to save from chaos/conquering realities...), means (technomagical gates/power of individual/god) High level enemies: angels/demons/devils/other invaders/high level characters/gods, motives Magic: explanation, magic systems (spell slots, mana points,...) , interaction with matter (nonspelcasters = strengthened by magic (in their body)/poisoned by magic, poisoning (by magic/of magic), living/entropic energy (what is its source?), manipulation (how does it work?) Ok those are some topic I thought were worth a discussion if not more. Thx for reading this far. Much love take care and bye ❤️

Thoughts on improving the D-tier cantrips: Control Flames: get rid of it. It's in a weird middle ground where every individual piece of its abilities are contained in other, better cantrips. If you really want to make it worthwhile, combine it with Create Bonfire. Even the two of them together won't be that great considering it takes an action and concentration. Dancing Lights: improve the action economy. Remove the concentration requirement and/or make it so that moving the lights is a free action. Encode Thoughts: remove the requirement that you have to be able to cast the spell in order to view the contents. This will vastly increase the utility of being able to share your thoughts with whoever you want. You can get up to some creative shenanigans, but it will still be highly situational. Also remove the time limit before they disappear. As a bonus, give it as a free feature to Order of Scribes wizards. Friends: either make it a small bonus to charisma checks (+4 maybe) and remove the hostility aspect, or keep the advantage feature but make it a WIS saving throw to detect the spell. Infestation: a lot of potential options. Choose some, but not all, of these alternatives: change the saving throw type, make it an attack roll instead, change the damage type, give a bit more control over the movement, allow the effect to persist for more than one turn. Primal Savagery: I honestly think they were needlessly hard on this spell. It's pretty good on its own and easily competes with or outperforms Shillelagh in higher levels. I don't think it needs much fixing and think it should be B tier as written. If you really want to buff it, make it possible to cast in beast form without needing to be 18th level. Would be hilariously broken as a squirrel, but completely overshadowed as a high level Moon Druid. Spare the Dying: give everyone the Grave Cleric's ability to cast it at 30 ft as a bonus action. It still won't be as good as other options, but there will at least be situations where you can find a use for it, especially if you have two people down at the same time and don't have Mass Healing Word. True Strike: remove the concentration requirement and make it a bonus action, while changing it from advantage to a small to-hit modifier. Still really powerful, will have people spamming it every turn, but it really won't be any different from rogues using bonus actions to get advantage or taking a feat, and it still has an action economy cost. Sword Burst/Thunderclap/Word of Radiance: buff the damage, to like a d12. Even then, many casters will avoid them, since even with the higher damage they require you to put yourself in danger and are totally save-or-suck. But those that like them might make their entire build around them, making them solidly B tier. Thunderclap should get an extra effect to make up for the noise drawback, like a small debuff to affected enemies.

Illusory Script to rewrite the OGL

@robinthrush9672

Жыл бұрын

I'm going with Shape Stone to make it literally written in stone.

@LeChevalierduLys

Жыл бұрын

That's what they are doing now !

@waldowallace9102

Жыл бұрын

Ohhh, first two attempts were nat ones and you are going to try again. Okay.... roll....

@chacepassmore6474

Жыл бұрын

Lmao

@lloydlineske2642

Жыл бұрын

@@waldowallace9102 I mean statically speaking.... Eventually they have to roll better than a 1..... Right?!

Thunderclap reminds me of something I wish I had in mmo's, the ability to pull the entire dungeon in one go.

@devonsmith9519

Жыл бұрын

So... You're the guy that wipes the party in a raid or dungeon. 🤔

I know this will probably get burred but these are homebrew changes to cantrips at my table. Acid Splash: When the damage goes up at standard levels, this cantrip can affect another creature within 5 ft. of the first. Guidance: Cast time is one reaction. Range is 30ft. 1d4 bonus to an ability check. A creature can be affected by Guidance a maximum of once per minute. Primal Savagery: You may use this cantrip while in wild shape. Resistance: Cast time is one reaction. Range is 30ft. 1d4 bonus to a saving throw. A creature can be affected by Resistance a maximum of once per minute. Spare the Dying: Give a downed creature 1 hp. True Strike: Cast time is one reaction. Range is 30ft. 1d4 bonus to a single attack roll. A creature can be affected by True Strike a maximum of once per minute.

FYI, touch range spells can be cast through a familiar. Shocking grasp works for this and is the best use of the cantrip.

I knew exactly where True Strike would go. When I was first learning D&D, I thought it would be a good choice for a sorcerer with quickened spell. Then I saw Zee Bashew's video on it and realized: "Oh, this cantrip is actually hot garbage."

I think I mentioned it on another video, but Dancing Lights saved us in a boss fight once. The dragon flew away to the other side of the cavern. The Drow in the party was able to throw Dancing Lights 100' away where the dragon was so those of us with 60' darkvision could see her.

Monte is right. Shape water has some incredible uses. Although it’s hard to deal damage with it in one turn in combat, there are so many situational uses out of combat that can be extremely useful. Since you can shape water into simple shapes, and you can freeze water, and since you can do 2 of the non-instantaneous effects at once, with multiple castings you can turn water into many cool and useful ice shapes. One simple shape is a five foot cone that fits in a cube. Shape the water into that cone. Then freeze it. Once frozen you don’t need it to be “shaped” anymore, so you can just leave the solid ice as a cone, and do the same with another 5-foot cube of water, with a max number of 2 frozen 5-foot cube shapes (or ~unlimited if the ambient temperature is at freezing or below.). My players used this for some cool stuff. My players got great use out of this in our “Frozen Sick” campaign. All locked or closed doors were slowly barricaded with 2 stacked 5’ cubes with a “simple shape” carved out of them to give a slit for shooting arrows inside and hole just large enough to reach in and open the door. The zombies, the intentionally difficult flesh golem, and many of the other creatures in the rooms were of little threat to my fully-ranged party. Other common uses include spikes of ice, deployable cover, or, if on a hill, ramp or stairs, a 5’ diameter sphere of ice. Those are heavier and much more deadly than snowballs due to their density.

@RonnygoBOOM

Жыл бұрын

Shape water deserves its own video

Shillelagh has always even as far back as 3e been a favorite of mine despite being fairly niche in it use in 5e. And When you spoke of a ranger build with it and pole arm master feat it reminded me of a recent character I had done. It was fun working with a build that was a ranger who took the druidic casting fighting style and chose it as one option(thron whip the other), and used club (though I always made it more like a training sword) and shield (though ran into issues until forth level grabed warcaster then never had to think about somatic components again and being able to use throne whip as a attack of opportunity was nice). Taking fey wanderer cause I could take advantage of the high wisdom in an intersting way, I could use wisdom for my charisma checks. Decided to build outside what might be considered normal, wore medium armor and since standard array had 8 str, 13 dex, 12 con, 10 int, 15 wisdom and 14 charisma and used the custom linage from Tasha's so I could also get fey touched feat (+1 wisdom and misty step primarily), +2 wisdom and an extra skill which ends up with me having 18 wisdom, and some utility stuff. I wouldn't call it the best, was ok in combat at lower levels better then most but evened out more by time hitting level 5 and probs would drop off in power a bit if played longer (or could potentially give more power if I optimized for combat over choosing stuff I felt fit thematically or would just be fun utility). probs multiclass as fighter to get the defense fighting style along with other stuff like battle master to help out in combat more, though there could be something thematically appropriate in warlock (especially archfey with characters background) or cleric with trickery or twilight domain to lean more into caster ranger idea (I was avoiding druid as an idea, though cricle of dreams seemed potentially good for the character, and likely if went druid would choose to re choose fighting style and choose shillelagh as one of the druid cantrips and flavor it as getting more and more in touch with the magic and powers gained from time in the feywild). I just have a tendency to build heavily into theme (this one being someone who got lost in the fey wild and made it back though changed) or choose something interesting as a base (like the cantrip shillelagh) and find cools things that make it make sense (fey wanderer made having high wisdom much more useful and interesting), this character dabbled in all 3 areas of my character idea thought process. Sometimes this builds into type (expectations) and sometimes not, both paths are fun in their own way and my shillelagh ranger was something different then I would immediately think of for a ranger. Charming and deceitful, but not very stealthy or athletic while still a decent combatant.

Honestly Lightning Lure and sword burst have become a staple for my eldrich knight. I took em as a damage spell requiring vocal components since I planned on taking war caster late in their career, allowing me to utilize my free hand to swing big with their battle axe. I can't think of the amount of times the parties rash gunslinger going in gunhoe and I lightning lure them out of a bad spot on the battlefield

There is a huge factor that you didnt mention when awarding Vicious Mockery an A. It is perhaps the most roleplay encouraging spell in the game. Built into the mechanics of the spell is the insistence (usually) that the PLAYER comes up with some kind of funny or nasty or dumb or lame insult. SO often players being put on the spot have shone when having to come up with something; its great. I really wish that more spells/abilities had this insistence built in.

@Eidenhoek

Жыл бұрын

It's a pretty updog spell.

@michaelcross7665

Жыл бұрын

Oh yeah I agree. It was spells like that that made me decide to always describe how my guy casts his spell instead of just saying "I cast x"

Sword burst is amazing...in one circumstance, and one of my players broke an encounter with it. They got swallowed by a huge creature (3x3x3 squares, or 15x15 by 15 feet), and I had to figure out the damage. She reminded me that there is "creature" 5 feet in every direction from her, providing a grand total of 26 "squares" that can be hit (9 above, 9 below, and 8 around) at 2d6 each. And dex doesn't apply since you can't get out of the way of your own stomach, nor can the creature see what is happening in its stomach. That works out to 52d6, which ended up being 182 points of damage. The rationale she offered for why it works is that it is the difference between standing next to a hand grenade, and swallowing one. This was of course the same player that used "destroy water" above an aboleth to create an instantaneous vacuum 100 ft below the surface of the water. Basically, she understood how the void underneath a submarine or ship when a torpedo detonates under its keel with what breaks a ship in half. Well, under water it's worse, because you have 43.2 psi, which means that the 10 gallon void creates a water hammer with 8,273 lbs of force: essentially dropping a small bus worth of force onto a spot with a surface area of about a 15x15 inch surface (i.e. the back of the aboleth). My ruling: lots of blunt force trauma: call it 10d6 bludgeoning.

An argument for Shocking Grasp: I have used it a lot. My wizards always end up in melee with the big bad eventually and being able to do damage AND take away their reaction is awesome. We got into a very spell caster heavy battle where counterspells were flying everywhere and the priestess came after me because my character repeatedlly insulted her. Used shocking grasp and she lost her reaction AND rolled a Nat 1 and lost concentration on a fiend she had summoned ending that spell. Barbarian made quick work of them after that. 😊 Also, shocking grasp is one of the only spells that would work with absorb elements. Not a reason to take it, but something cool we learned in session.

In word of radiance’s defense it’s actually the strongest of the three since it’s on the cleric spell list so you have the armor class to want to get in close and can combo the area damage with spirit guardians which requires you to be fairly close anyway. And also radiant is just a very good damage type .

@Peter_Cordes

Жыл бұрын

And it's "every creature *of your choice*", unlike Sword Burst and Thunderclap, so you can use it near allies. It's by far the best of the 5ft-AoE cantrips. (It's a Con save like Thunderclap, not Dex like Sword Burst, but multiple small enemies you might want to AoE down are likely to have lower Con than Dex.) Or you could be a Trickery cleric and cast it through Invoke Duplicity, to drop 5ft AoEs among enemies without being there yourself. I would have liked to see Jester on Critical Role run Word of Radiance instead of Sacred Flame as her backup / alternate damage cantrip for when Toll the Dead wasn't the best choice (wis vs. dex save.) I'm curious how well it would have worked. Very often, burning down one enemy first is a big advantage, removing their damage output from later rounds, but the critical role players are generally not very good at focus-fire anyway.

@olorin6494

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@@Peter_Cordes oh I hadn’t considered that you can choose your targets yeah that’s great. At a certain point they stop using cantrips much and it’s usually toll the dead when they do. The focus fire in critical role is not fantastic yeah so an area finisher would be useful for them. Jester didn’t use word of radiance but she did make excellent use of inflict wounds with the duplicate

To make at least a little Case for C-Tier: As a Grave-Domain Cleric, you can on 30-foot range, save 2 people from dying in a single turn if combined with Healing Word and on Level 1 in a prolonged combat it can come in clutch

@andrewmcmillan229

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The thing is though, grave clerics get it free, so they don't even factor into the decision making process of whether to take it. Like, you could say it's a B for grave clerics but it shouldn't affect the overall rating.

I actually think there's a use for Thunderclap. Not as a spell you pick up though. But imagine a player accidentally triggering a trap, but instead of damaging them it automatically casts the spell which alerts the whole dungeon of their presence. Your players can have that whole "At that moment, player X knew he f-ed up" scene 😂

sacred flame's "ignore cover" aspect is mostly important considering the "cover provides a bonus to dex saves", not "casting at people through windows shenans" (although if your dm is down with that, that's also cool)