"No you cant do that, thats not in the book" "The Farmer stares at you blankly as he has no dialogue options"

@lemonZzzzs

Ай бұрын

You can't say "The farmer stares at you blankly as he has no dialogue options" as that's not in the book.

@robinjupiter4731

Ай бұрын

@@lemonZzzzs «farmer.»

*Asks Strahd a question* "Well there's no dialogue for that, so roll initiative. And die, I guess."

1) Should've had the player deliver a message to the party about the city. 2) Run... Just, run. DM's aren't BG3

@marshallrobinson1019

2 ай бұрын

2) My take on it is the spokesperson player failed to save or do something in CoS and wanted a do over. It's possible other players were involved. On the flip side, a DM could have tried to milk something for drama and railroaded the party into a failure. Either way, they need a psychologist or a veteran DM to talk through their trauma with them

@kharnthebetrayer8251

Ай бұрын

1) Honestly sounds like either: The player should have been told 'you probably wont be coming in this session, but you could pop in to watch if you want' Or The players hard derailed and went off of on something the GM improv'd for the entire session before getting back to it and getting to the city (i.e. he planned for them to get to the city within an hour. But stuff went on and ended up being most of the session)

The idea of running a campaign exactly as written would be impossibly difficult. NPCs that never respond, only a handful of descriptions to set up scenes or dressing, zero wiggle room for creative solutions, unintentionally shutting down player actions that don't promote the as written path. Those players have no concept of what it means to be a DM nor have they peaked inside a module before.

@herrhartmann3036

Ай бұрын

Perhaps someone should have told exactly this to the players. "If I don't have freedom to improvise, you won't have it either."

@CerealNommer

Ай бұрын

That’s presuming the module you’re running doesn’t contradict itself at least several times per chapter.

@The_Gardara

Ай бұрын

This is something that can only be said by someone who has never been on the other side of the DM screen and is under the illusion that with official content we are working with a full script... we are not, if you run a module exactly as written you will have points where the book does not tell you how to proceed to the next plot point, points where your party is under leveled because it expected you to write your own adventures in between major plot points to fill in the difference, the reality that your players have really nothing to do with the plot unless they made characters with the overall goal of "stop the big bad", and just so.... SO MANY travel sessions where it takes multiple sessions of random encounters just to get to the next plot point, etc. as DMs running official content we are not given a full script, we are given a half finished manuscript with a note from WotC that just says "figure it out" because that's how official campaigns are designed so you can tailor them to your party.

@dragonstryk7280

Ай бұрын

It's worse than that: They've been under toxic/abusive DMs, meaning that they don't just have NO concept, they're negative concept, because they've seen the abuse and are now overcorrecting it. If the DM wants to show them, he could whip out Dragon Heist and show them the multiple times they include a sidebar that reads, "If the players manage to be at all clever, undo it like... immediately, just, however you can." I was so PISSED at that campaign on multiple levels, not least of which was that I thought it was my friend who was running that was messing up.

@The_Gardara

Ай бұрын

@@dragonstryk7280 ... What on earth are you talking about??? I think your DM BSed you, Dragon Heist is by no means the most well written game WotC has ever made, but it doesn't have any such side bar like that, mostly because it doesn't need to, it's mostly social encounters with a bit of combat and a couple of dungeons possibly only one depending on what story path you take, with not much room for players to even start thinking about how to cheese things or be overly clever in ways the game designers didn't intend, as your quickly being shoved from plot point to plot point with very clear direction (it's actually one of the few official modules that flows decently well given how on rails it is), granted it's not IMPOSSIBLE but that's your DM being unable to adapt and saying "that's what the book says" as in the book doesn't say what happens in that case which is most of the time in official modules, rookie DMs have a habit of seeing the book not say anything about something and assume that means it just can't be done, at that point as I stated above is when the DM has to fill in the gaps, either that or you were doing something that would have gone off the rails immensely which yeah Dragon Heist is very on rails with very little room for compromise unless you change it heavily.

If I were a DM and my players were being as strict as the people in the second story, I’d just ask why they weren’t playing Baldur’s Gate.

@bogdanlevi

2 ай бұрын

Because they don't want to play the same campaign twice, and there's much more 5e modules than BG games.

@edmg7

2 ай бұрын

@@bogdanlevi oh I know what the answer is. This would be me being passive aggressive.

@bogdanlevi

2 ай бұрын

@@edmg7 ah, ok, my bad. I'd instead suggest (as a bluff) that I join as a player, and the strict guy would DM.

Wife needs a thousand Deedee plushies :D

I just imagined what they meant by following exactly as said even with quotes that if they say asked a question to strahd that he had no answers in the module for that he would just blankly star at them.

@Hayden_Lummus

2 ай бұрын

*flashes back to Telltale’s Walking Dead games where they remind you at the beginning of each season that silence is also a valid response.*

@charlesransom4546

2 ай бұрын

@@Hayden_Lummus yeah but that's also the player response, can't remember a time in those games where if u asked someone a question and all u got is silence

@charlesransom4546

2 ай бұрын

@@Hayden_Lummus actually im wrong its the "they'll remember this" XD

@Bookworm159

2 ай бұрын

This sounds like a poorly put together video game where you can respond however you want to characters, but they only answer if you put in exactly the right response.

@charlesransom4546

2 ай бұрын

@@Bookworm159 it's a video game series one of them is the walking dead which is actually pretty good, but it doesn't allow you to respond however you want just given a variety of choices on how to respond (including not responding) and sometimes your response is timed (for dramatic purposes). The game likes to revolve around drama between the characters and how you respond including not responding will affect your relationship with these characters and there are times whether good or bad response to those characters the game will just pop up with the character and subtitles saying something like "they will remember this".

The first story made me think to the first time I played. Similar situation as I joined halfway into a homebrewed campaign but the way my character got introduced that session is the dm gave a quick 5 minute background of me appearing the same room that they did and because they solved it allready I was able to leave. Wandered into the woods met the incredibly important npc who the rest of the party was looking for. This npc then pointed into the direction where I ended up meeting the party. It was a great way to work in a character and get familiar with the world and setting as well as helping the party on that quest as well helping them find that npc. It still took several session to find him again. Honestly that to me is a great way introduce a new character

@tinkrtailr

2 ай бұрын

So, same situation for me, but the DM had me hide in an unlocked closet cause I didn't know if the party was there to harm me (we were in a dungeon). After multiple failed attempts from people to open the closet (literally no one thought to just open the door, they all decided they needed checks), my character just opened it and stared at them in minor horror and disbelief and told them they were fucking terrible at opening doors.

@Noah2472-j1n

Ай бұрын

@@tinkrtailr lol DnD players and being bad at opening doors, name a more iconic duo.

Wife needs a thousand Deedee plushies, and I need a few too!

The players wanted Diablo. I've had players who wanted that. I've had to explain that as a DM I am writing the story with them. There is my action, their reaction then my reaction. And so on and so on. Those players wanted to read a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure Book. Also my own party had their own "bridge-gate". It was Doors instead.

What is the point of following a module exactly as written? And from that story, I mean EXACTLY as written? What happens on a bad dice roll that removes a player they needed to continue the story, would they then blame the DM because the character was supposed to continue in Plot armor? At this point, you are just narrating a story.

@beliotrednar1611

2 ай бұрын

I never use a module as it is written. I always make some chsnges as preparation and as the game goes I usually need to improvise as player make choices. I was so proud of myself. I DM-d Feast of Ravenmoor 3 times, and every time was so different which means I left enough space to players. CoS is not even a module, rather a campaign. Can't imagine possible to run the game by the book.

@Sansanvi_Inanis

2 ай бұрын

At that point, id say they should just play a modded Baldurs Gate 3, and even then, things can go wildly different depending on dice rolls for that game

@bogdanlevi

2 ай бұрын

The point is that they have been abused by a bad DM, and that's the solution they came up with. I wonder if any of them tried DMing.

@bogdanlevi

2 ай бұрын

​@@Sansanvi_Inanis are all DM dice rolls open in BG3?

@LucanVaris

2 ай бұрын

@@bogdanlevi Why would any of them want to DM for a group like them?

7:52 You know that one part of the DMG (pg. 4) that says "The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren't in charge. You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game." I hate it when the folks at D&D think that the DMs should think they know better than the folks at D&D. How dare WotC! How dare DMs! How dare on your family! How dare on your cow! How dare, how dare, how dare! _None_ of you are free from the How Dares! Angery face! >:I

@bogdanlevi

2 ай бұрын

Doesn't it also say somewhere in DMG that some dice rolls are supposed to be hidden? If so, then these players want to change a concrete mechanic, but so that it's still RAW.

@charlesransom4546

Ай бұрын

I tell that to everyone it is the “Golden Rule” since 1st edition

@SageDarkwind

Ай бұрын

"Dishonor on you! Dishonor on your cow! Dishonor! Dishonor!"

@LucanVaris

Ай бұрын

@@bogdanlevi The DMG asks whether the DM prefers to roll behind the DM screen or not, on page 235. It also mentions rolling dice behind the DM screen (with or without an encounter) on page 85, as a way to create urgency in the party. Of course, something tells me that those _particular_ players don't care. They want a Dungeon Mannequin, more than they want a proper DM.

@daggern15

Ай бұрын

@@charlesransom4546 A lot of people refer to it as Rule 0. There are obviously potential issues with "what the DM says goes" at times but it's there for a reason.

First story: another possibility that the DM could have done is say to the group, "Hey guys, I have a player that hasn't gotten to play yet. I wanted to introduce her in this next town we're going to, because it fits her character, and instead we're fiddling around in the wild not really accomplishing anything. Can we speed this up?"

@mrsplays9817

Ай бұрын

"Are y'all are loafing in the woods, this player's character walks up to you." "Why is her character in the woods?" "Cause the party is here"

@kharnthebetrayer8251

Ай бұрын

I think that scenario was likely either: The GM should've just told the player 'i wanna introduce you here for narrative reasons. But we're still a session away. So you'll come in next session, but you can still watch this one if you wanna get a feel for the vibe Or The GM expected the stuff to get done quick, and arrive at the town within a half hour. But things went on, and he ended up Improv'ing a lot of stuff. And got too stuck in it, blanking that the other player was there, since, as they said, its online, its easy to forget people., esspecially when they're new (in person you'd see the player. Online, you'd be focussed on whatever you're using to play, and its a new person, so you wouldn't notice that their voice isn't there) But either way Definitely should have sped up his intro to the start of the fight. Wouldn't change anything narrative wise most likely to just have the wizard and Co show up early in the fight and would get the player in right away to actually play for the last hour instead of 10 minutes

10:39 Customer Service should be a 6-month mandatory requirement for everyone.

@jonathanblanton9446

2 ай бұрын

Wouldn't that constitute cruel and unusual punishment under the Eighth Amendment? (In the US, at least.) Seriously, customer service employees ought to be allowed to talk back to rude customers. "Be silent! Keep your forked tongue behind your teeth! I have not passed through fire and death to bandy crooked words with an entitled Karen!"

@harmonicajay91

Ай бұрын

As someone who worked six years in a market behind the counter... yes. Yes. I agree.

@MemoristCed

Ай бұрын

It absolutely changes how you see the world.

@zerokyuuni

Ай бұрын

@@jonathanblanton9446 It could also be a Thirteenth Amendment violation. Indentured Servitude is no joke. Anilao v. Spota, No. 10-cv-00032 (Mar. 31, 2011, and Nov. 28, 2018)

@stevenjohnson6962

Ай бұрын

I've been saying that for years

With the first story, we had a similar situation, but much better handling of the situation. Wild magic sorcerer had to leave the campaign for life reasons, and we had a great guy who wanted to join and coordinated with the DM. When we started the session, we were on a ship in the middle of a storm, being attacked by sahuagin. The new player set quiet for the first few minutes. The DM (role playing the sorcerer) told us she was up in the crows nest and yelled “I’ve got this guys!” Sudden wild magic surge as she tried to cast fireball, then *zot* moment when the wild magic kicked in and she was replaced by a naked, balding gnome covered in suds and holding a bath brush. The DM then told us we recognized him as our performing troupes historian (who was apparently a wizard of around our level) that simply wanted a break from studying and adventuring……. Dude was introduced into the campaign within 15 minutes (in a hilarious way) with a reason why we should know him, at least casually.

I'm under the impression that in the first story the DM came up with a very rigid plot structure that was made without thinking about the players' convenience (like "No, player A can't join the party until they reach point B, and when they do, player A should be doing C", without thinking "WHY is this important?") and stuck to his rigid plot, unwilling to deviate from it.

@Saturnfanboy

Ай бұрын

That kind of rigid thinking is bad. Honestly, at this point, I'd have just had the player be there by way of teleportation or something. Nobody will judge.

@drunkshinx

Ай бұрын

I think it could also be underestimating how long it will take to get to the town. As a player, I personally wouldn't mind waiting an hour or two for my player to be introduced (i might be more pationt than some people) if it serves the character's story or personality in a significant way. but 5 hours is just too much. I think the bigger problem is just communication with the player, how important their introduction in the town is to the player and how long they are willing to wait for it. It sounds to me like the DM just said "this is what im doing" and didn't ask the player how they felt about it.

I think the first story was classic DM over/underestimating their players. “At the city, you’ll meet the party.” Party takes FOREVER to get to the city because ThEy ArE tHe PlAyErS and they move at THEIR pace, NOT the DM’s. And once you get TO the city “Oh shite, I forgot the city was under siege, uhh uhh MAYBE NEW MEMBER IS FOCUSED ON A DIFFERENT COMBAT YEAH YEAH PAAAAAANIIIIIIIIIC!!!!!!!!!!” Sounds like a cascade of good intentions derailed by bad circumstances.

@CerealNommer

Ай бұрын

I’ve had that in reverse. A player had an expectation as to how they wanted to be introduced to the party and was waiting in the tavern/inn for the rest of the group to show up, while the rest of the PCs were running around the town doing things, pretty close to the tavern. Until about halfway through the session, the player gave up on their carefully preplanned introduction scene and came out of tavern demanding to know what all the ruckus was about.

@kharnthebetrayer8251

Ай бұрын

Yeah, it feels to me more like he expected the out of town stuff to take like a half hour, but things got derailed or took way longer. And, since its online and they're new, and GM is busy Improv'ing way more than they thought they would, new player slipped the mind for a bit, so just went through it. Then they got to the town, he realized 'oh shit new player!' and checked his lore, seeing 'ah shit, he's doing xyz, thats important for lore, cant just skip it' And then tried to make it up with a badass intro. But player had been there for 4.5 hours doing nothing. Definitely not a fun situation. But I can easilly see that from the GM's side how that would happen. Got a lot on the plate during sessions sometimes

I played in a game where the DM played exactly to the module (including the bit about dialogue!) for both Dragons of Stormwreck Isle and Spelljammer. He also spoke in a constant monotone and didn’t bother to incorporate our characters’ backstories aside from literally one moment each, and those only happened where the module accidentally presented such a situation. At the time it was my only game of Dnd but I wish I would have just left because it was so horrid.

With the second story, I don't understand why the players didn't just DM it themselves if they were going to rely exclusively on the module?

@thekenyonsquad5672

Ай бұрын

they bought a computer game (curse of strahd) and needed a computer to run it. that's probably how they saw the situation.

@ant3910

Ай бұрын

With the way they demand to limit DM’s influence and then angrily shout at the DM, they are definitely woke players😂

@solosynapse

Ай бұрын

​@@ant3910Your pathetic trolling comment makes zero sense. First, you can't even define "woke." It's become a meaningless buzzword only used unironically by conspiracy theorists & people who don't like minorities being allowed to exist. Second, it has nothing to do with the story in question, and you can't tell the politics of anyone involved from that story. Third, I can find a dozen examples of "anti-woke" types doing what you said (see: MTG toward Kevin McCarthy). Touch grass & stop mixing QAnon into your hobbies.

On of my favourite intro sessions as a player, I was joining about 20 sessions into the campaign. I listened in for about 2 hrs of a 4 hr session before being introduced, but I hit the ground running once my intro happened. I was playing someone linked to the BBEG (who was actually not the BBEG but it was a fairly complicated situation) and one of the other PCs was also linked to them. I was therefore being sent by the BBEG to offer support and protection... they were a squishy wizard and I was a half orc blood hunter. I arrived in front of the party having been teleported through an exploding squirrel, immediately bowed to the wizard and said "A mutual 'friend' sent me to protect you" and was cautiously accepted by the party. I think it helped that I knew nearly all of the other players from another game that we were in together.

Story #1 If I'd been the DM in that session, I'd have told the established players: "We have a new group member here. Since you're already going to the city, I'll have you meet his character there when you arrive. Does any one of you have anything in mind that he really needs to have done before you reach the city? Because otherwise I suppose we just skip ahead to get our new friend involved in the game." When the players state that they're ready to go, I switch the scene to the new player and describe how the besieging army has been arriving and taking position over the past few days. The player then gets a chance to describe how his character contributes to the town's defense. And then the rest of the group arrives and finds the enemy army blocking their way.

@bogdanlevi

2 ай бұрын

Oh, a lot of people would disagree. Because you see, it's actually metagaming when you have to interrupt the flow of the campaign because of out-of-game reasons such as a new player.

@herrhartmann3036

2 ай бұрын

@@bogdanlevi They were literally a day's journey away. Skipping one day of travel is not disrupting the flow of the campaign. Then again, I don't do detailed day-to-day travel descriptions anyway. On anything longer than a day's travel I'd throw in a random encounter or two. But if I know the new player is waiting at the end of the trip, I'd just go ahead and have the group arrive right away. Especially if there is a huge scripted encounter (their destination is under siege) coming up. And players who disagree with my running style wouldn't be playing in my campaign anyway.

@bogdanlevi

2 ай бұрын

@@herrhartmann3036 I know, I'm trying to figure out a reason why that DM didn't do something like this. So far, my suggestions are: 1. The players wanted to do a bunch of stuff before coming to the city, and he was afraid to say "no" because that would be metagaming. 2. He had the whole journey to the city prepared, didn't want to change/skip it, but underestimated how much time it would take. Also, he didn't allow the new player to participate in the siege event because "the siege was balanced for 3 players, I can't break it by introducing the 4th".

@herrhartmann3036

2 ай бұрын

@@bogdanlevi [2.] Sounds like the kind of DM that the group from Story #2 wanted. "Never deviate from the script - ever!" Even if it's your own script. And the idea of a "balanced" RPG encounter is utopic anyway.

@bogdanlevi

Ай бұрын

@@herrhartmann3036 being afraid of improvising and bad at estimating time is enough to end up in [2]. If so, the DM is still bad, but not in a malicious way. Yeah, balance is a fleeting thing. I heard it's done well in PF2, but not sure if that's true.

I'm currently running my first module with a couple of friends, Dragon Heist. And if I ran it by the letter of the module, there wouldn't be much of any dialogue to be had. It suprised me at first, how open ended and sparse the information was. But I realized that it gives the DM a certain degree of freedom to run the campaign how they think it will be fun for the players. For example, the players get the chance to open a pub. And if they do that, they'll have a business rival trying to sabotage them. Since the module doesn't give a lot of details about how and when this all plays out, I had it happen during the grand opening of their establishment. To make it an event, I rolled for certain games and challenges that would influence the mood of the patrons. This included disruptions of the business by the conspiring rival, which peaked in a fight with several rat swarms while 1 party member was already knocked out. Had I just followed the letter of the module, this would have just been a rather stale series of checks without much of anything happening in-between. If Curse of Strahd is written in a simlar manner, I doubt those players would have a lot of fun playing it...

@daviddalrymple2284

Ай бұрын

Yeah. Even the most "railroady" modules in 5e don't try to cover every possible situation and interaction in exhaustive detail. They describe people, places and problems and give the GMs suggestions on how to use them. They don't usually say things like "The Prison Guard will give the PCs the key if they pass a DC 15 Charisma Check or bribe him with 57 GP or more."; they usually say things like "At the DM's discretion, the Prison Guard might give the PCs the key if they have a good reason to."

Wife needs a million of these plushies.

i'm ngl Duke, i thought you said "The players wanted to dip the DM in fluids" and i was hysterical laughing for a couple minutes, only to laugh harder when you brought the story up and i read the actual title! my brain is so broken sometimes istg 😂

Duke: “That’s what she says”

Regarding Story #1: I admit it's easy to play devil's advocate with this one, simply because it seemed like the poster didn't bother to communicate. I get that it sucks to be stuck in a session where not much happens for your character, but sometimes that happens, even in a group where your character is established. If the poster had reached out to the DM for an explanation, then maybe things wouldn't have been so bad. Perhaps the DM would apologize, promising to do better, or perhaps the DM would have been condescending, insisting on his story over the characters. There's still some unknown variables to really decide what happened there, based on what was shared. I agree with Duke that he should have given it a second chance or at least got some explanation as to why it happened. Regarding Story #2: Okay, these guys just want a video game. That DM was wise to recognize something was up and to not get involved. Again, maybe Duke is right, that they had some DM go and do weird things to an existing module, but to demand that they stick to the module so rigidly makes me think they haven't read a module before. Modules deliberate don't explain everything to allow both the players and the DM to make the game their own. It almost makes me wish that a more experienced DM would take a "malicious compliance" approach and do exactly what they want to make it clear to them how much that would suck. It's even funnier/more pathetic that they wanted to do Curse of Strahd, as that module has RNG elements, forcing the game to be more dynamic.

"It's 5-6 inches, WHICH IS LARGE" -Duke 2024

@solosynapse

Ай бұрын

I mean, it's a little above the average... 👀

@Mestuff27

Ай бұрын

@@solosynapse yeah, I'd hope so

Lol the last one sounds like how my party did everything they could to avoid a dragon on a bridge, and everyone except the barbarian snuck past the dragon without it noticing. Turns out the dragon was a crucial plot point and all of us had a good laugh about it later

@drunkshinx

Ай бұрын

this is the importance of flexibility, if the barbarian had avoided the dragon too (which I probably would have, dragons are intimidating and it seems like an opstacle) then you would have had to find a new way to introduce the crucial plot point (probably without the players knowing it was originally supose to be the dragon)

I can't speak for the player-base as a whole, but "the community" are so vocally anti-DM that I've simply quit Facebook. The most common mindset I've found is that the DM isn't part of the group, they merely serve the group. This idea is so thoroughly ingrained in ttrpg social media, that most D&D advice channels I've found don't appear to realise that's what they're saying. I guess I have two main things I'd like to get across to the meme-aholics across the internet, regardless of chosen platform: 1) The stories you'll find online (regardless of source) are the outliers. The best and worst the hobby has to offer. Most sessions simply don't make it to the internet. Please keep in mind that power-tripping DMs and gigachads are nowhere near as common as a group of mates simply having a laugh around a table. 2) Just treat each other like people. You don't need [insert favourite YT channel here] to tell you how to run or play a game. In your own game, at your own table (physical or virtual), everyone at the table matters, and nobody outside of it does. Stop trying to mimic someone else's table, talk to the other people at your table, and figure out what works for everyone present. You'll have a lot more fun that way.

@solosynapse

Ай бұрын

FB is a cesspool anyway. Roll20 & DDB are better regarding the general mindset about the DM/player dynamic.

@torgranael

Ай бұрын

@@solosynapse The only social media I haven't found to be a cesspool is Duke's Discord server. I didn't even know you could browse for games in R20 and DDB. I've only played with people I know so far.

If a whole friends group that likes D&D has no one willing to DM, and can't befriend a DM... the vibes are WAY off. That's when you pay for a professional DM to put up with you. The situation reads like an entitled group of brats who expect someone to waste their time prepping, showing up, and entertaining them, likely for no benefit of their own. That's the sort of group that probably expects the DM to host at home AND provide drinks, snacks, and dinner.

The first story reminds me of a similar situation I was in, albeit with a more positive ending. I had been I. The campaign for a while but due to the boss for a certain dungeon feeling underwhelming the dm decided to take advantage of a gimmick he and I had given my character. Long story short my character ended up being killed as the dungeon boss. Because of this I had to make a new character, the dm and I worked out that I would be playing a durigar sorcerer because the next location the players needed to visit was a durigar stronghold. The plan had been to introduce me as an escort/bodygaurd to a durigar noble (yes those do exist at least in the module we were playing). This however did not work out since the players spent 5 hours of our session debating on weather to attack the stronghold or pursue a giant mechanical dragon the was theatening a nearby town. Because of this the dm had to completely rewrite my introduction instead having me show up out of the blue having ditched my boss to go warn the town about the dragon.

Bro the AUDACITY of the people in the second story, or at least that one guy, like bro at LEAST read the damn player handbook first since apparently they certainly have not 😭 “Nuh uh that’s not what is says in the book!!1!” “The merchant stares at you blankly, as he has no dialogue points present in the module.”

For the first one, as the DM, I would find a quicker way to introduce the player so they could get to playing without making them wait so long. For example, when my players were infiltrating a vampire's manor and a new player joined, I introduced them as a prisoner from the nearby Order of the Lycan, chained up by some vampire thralls. Even if it would be a little strange to find them wherever the session is, that's just more fuel for fun roleplay; how the hell *did* they end up here?

I've seen this happen alot with new characters joining in the middle. I think DMs desperately want it to make sense storywise and while nice to make an entrance, it's usually in a convoluted way. Should defly jive with the story, but it needs to happen right at the start of their first session.

Player two ask npc a question Dm"Sry there is no dialog with that npc in this module "

I had a first session where the DM made us roll a D100 and when I rolled a 100, they said I was 100 minutes away from the target we were ALL hunting down individually. I tried to ask them to reroll halfway through, I rolled a 30 and they said I was 30 minutes away now. As I was traversing through the swamp, the DM surprised attacked me with an alligator that practically one-shot me and I failed all my death-saving throws. Don't worry, they allowed me to be unconscious instead of fully dying but I barely interacted with any of the other players, let alone do anything else in the 4 hour session. Did not come back for a second one, but my roommate filled in for me and wrapped up the campaign, claiming they had a blast. Glad at least one of us enjoyed it

My opinions on the first two stories: 1) I understand that sometimes you can really get into role playing or the party going seven different directions to get from A to B, but yeah, if I noticed that we weren’t going to get to the city, I would have either introduced the Cleric early or had the party go into a brief time of just wandering along the road and jump to what Cleric was doing, possibly role playing or doing a small encounter to let them have some action during the session. 2) The fact that they explicitly asked to play CoS and then demanded DM not change “even a comma” tells me they’re fairly familiar with the module and wanted to heavily metagame against the DM. I think the DM made the right call about bailing out of the campaign before it even started.

For the second story, I would have agreed to the players demands, line up a time for the first session and tell them where to meet. Then ten minutes after session is meant to start message one of them that I didn't find the path to the location in the module and will be unable to dm them.

@Mr_GoR_

Ай бұрын

🤣🤣🤣 the level of pettiness in this is delicious.😚👌

I've seen the first story happen successfully, it's very difficult to pull but not impossible. What happened is that we had an experienced DM running a game for us newbies, and the newcomer was also an experienced player/DM who joined midway through. They worked out the introduction in advance and we were briefed before the session started that he would introduce himself today. We had arrived at a town the session prior and what our DM did was heavily push the narrative that it was cursed to build tension and "guide" us to the new player. Of course, we were pretty slow at decision making so it still took us 2 hours to find him but once we did, the next few hours were dedicated entirely to him to gel with the group properly. It requires patience no doubt, pre-emptive communication and a bit of meta-gaming but it's doable, that player quickly became a core member and the campaign went on for several more months.

First story, the player whose character is flavoured as a field medic cleric from the future? Let them jump in using a holographic emitter like the Doctor from Star Trek: Voyager. Second story, I've watched Curse of Strahd being played live on stream and it can be a lot of fun. I think the group in this story would have had a positive experience if they just allowed the DM to do their thing. Third story, sometimes a bridge is just there to get the characters to the other side. The description does make it sound like it was going to give out the moment the 1001st group of adventurers crossed it, but a Survival check would have been enough to determine that it's perfectly safe. And, if the group has enough rope to tie between two trees on opposite banks of a river, they could literally use it to strengthen the bridge which is already there.

As far as people forgetting others online, yeah, I can see it, but on the GMs part they do need to be extra prepared. My channel runs our game as a stream here on KZread, we play online, and when there are players not really involved its either clearly an individual's moment or they could jump in at any moment to participate or it's specifically player decisions to have a private moment with someone else. Obviously, try to keep that minimal so no one sits around too long, but it happens. A specific solution to that first story is just being fluid. The new players characters could have ran across the party and given them the shout out that the town was being seiged and needed help. New player is introduced and everyone is directed to bolt straight there.

@bogdanlevi

2 ай бұрын

Very true, online games are so difficult to manage. I would have 100% missed a player once in a while if I played online.

Second story, I agree that it sounds more like this person knows the module, and thus wanted to metagame through the whole module as “fun”, cause he can’t reload save if his plan does t go the way he wants

8:53 time stamp. I got yelled at in 1E because I flipped the locations of two monsters. These people had already played in the module and I was flipping it for variety.

Wife needs all 1000 plushies

I had a session recently and I broke a door by knocking on it

I think the edges need to be sharper, or more defined, on the mini plushy.

I will say that I was supposed to meet with a party in the next town, but since they changed direction, the DM decided to throw me into a quick and easy 1 v 2 with some easy mooks at a bridge for the PCs to find me en route - There are always ways to bring in new players, even in the middle of a battle

Wife needs 1,000 mini Deedee plushies!

The last story.... Is probably the group that takes a whole session just to open a damn door.

"Don't tell me you don't go on social media", actually Duke, I don't. I do have my sketchbook in my lap while I'm listening to everyone though, and work more on character portraits. Unless my cat demands my attention, then I mute my mic while I pet the cat, because he purrs so loud the mic picks it up.

Anyone who wants to play as a sentient ring in DND. Here you go. The backstory would go something like this. Have the ring be a personal belonging of a long since dead warrior whose last battle was with one of the most powerful sorcerers in all of the realms. And nearing the end of the battle the sorcerer cast a spell with all his might that merged the warrior's soul with his ring. And after the warrior defeats the sorcerer the warrior goes to whatever afterlife he believes in and the ring becomes just a ring until one fortunate or unfortunate person puts on the ring. You don't notice something is wrong until you fall during a civil war and one of the adversaries loots the ring and puts it on. Suddenly you're in front of your own body. Then you realize that you can possess/control whatever or whoever puts on your ring, Shortly after your character encounters the party. And then the usual hijinks ensue.

Story 1: As a DM, I *will not* bring a player in until I'm ready to bring their character in. It's useless having someone just sit there, and no I won't have them play an NPC or some such thing that they have no investment in. Just let them know that it'll be an extra week, manage the expectation, and if the player wants to sit and watch while being entirely clear that they'll essentially just be watching a live-play of the session, then that's fine. Story 2: Ooh, yeah, that one hurts. Back when I was in Navy, I finally got fully into playing TTRPGs, and OH MAN, we got a chain of just horrible DMs like you read about. Monty Haulers who took all the fun out of even getting rewards because regardless of system or what we wrote, we would shortly become Untouchable Gods. DMs that seemed to exist just to tear down players from having any sense of enjoyment in the game, and there were a lot of us that were new and just didn't know better. Favoritism, severe fudging, ability-blocking players repeatedly like every horrible type of DM. When I took over DMing and went over things, I got SO TORQUED, cause I was finally behind the screen and saw all the various amounts of utter crap and resolved my core DMing Rule: Don't Be Those Guys.

I love these, great way to start the weekend!

8:55 Meanwhile a "folk at D&D" named Crawford and his rulings...

I would probably run for the second stories group (with a no cheating policy of course) just for the bizarre experience and stories to tell. I doubt we'd finish the module since even if I didn't bounce early, it would be impossible to use my influence to move the plot forward and if the players get stuck at any point there's nothing anyone can do except start over. If we did finish, I would say "alright, which one of you are going to run next?" to get one of them to try and see what it's really like to be a DM.

The first story makes me think about the Dimension 20 Court of Fey and Flowers campaign where the players just confidently assert that their characters have entered any given scene to join any conversation they think it would be fun to have their character in. I feel like after the first hour of not getting to my character I'd just insist they showed up for whatever reason.

I do appreciate the devil’s advocacy yall give. With that second story, I definitely dont think that group wiuld be one for me, but at the same time, there is an Adventure Path from Pathfinder that I’d love to try and play again. I bought it after leavinf my old table because I was thinking of converting it, but then I began reading it and realized that we missed a LOT. Not because we didn’t follow the adventure, but rather because the DM removed entire sections and either skipped things (like an entire chapter that would give the party reason to explore and care about the town most of the adventure takes place in), or replaced (like a handful of story relevant dungeons that were replaced with their own DMPC villain). They also made changes that made already difficult encounters harder by adding Instant Death magic and such to them, all things I learned in the months after leaving. Maybe someday I can play it again and see what the AP is actually like. Alternatively, I can possibly convert it to 5E and run it.

Re the 'don't change anything that's in the module!' story: if the players *all* felt so strongly about that, then one of them could have volunteered to DM it...

Duchess looks so different without the baby bump, not to say she ever looked bad just different

@kaylawoodbury2308

2 ай бұрын

That's not her name

@LostWhits

Ай бұрын

If he's Duke, and she's Duke's Wife. A Duke's wife is a Dutchess. Logically sound.

@kaylawoodbury2308

Ай бұрын

@@LostWhits Not really, Duke is his actual birth name, not a nickname he goes by. I'm pretty sure her name is Amy.

@kaylawoodbury2308

Ай бұрын

@@LostWhits No not really, Duke is his actual name, not a nickname. Her name I'm pretty sure is Amy or something and "wife" is the channel nickname. Making up a new nickname for her is a little weird.

@torgranael

Ай бұрын

@@kaylawoodbury2308 Weird is a best case scenario. It could also be seen as making fun of Duke. My surname is an improper noun, and two of my remaining three names happen to coincide with a trio of animated chipmunks. I can imagine how much even well intentioned jokes about his name would get annoying.

Or malicious compliance "i cant answe rthat question. The book has no dialogue for it"

The part where the players are saying "don't change anything" might also be them having read the module and not wanting to fail. Or just them wanting a video game experience. Or just them being idiots, who knows. No dialog, no action, no fun

Wife needs a thousand Deedee plushies.

First story: Knowing, that town pc's are headed to is/will be under siege, and new player's character is helping city archmage, I would get that archmage tell player somewhat like "in this desperate times I will teleport you to a location in nearby town for you to seek help". Then make portal magic malfunction due to interruption of a traitor and drop new player's character right on the head of a party's fighter. That way they all will have something to do, new player has a purpose and they intstantly share a common goal. It would not be fun for me to feel left out and I, as a dm, never do that in my games.

1) just being clear that they probably wouldn't get to meet OP's character in that session would have probably fixed that issue, it may have been the DM just underestimating how long it would take to reach that point. 2) I can understand different groups wanting different amounts of DM influence when running a module, this specific example is way too extreme and could never work with not even having different dialogue. The real problem is that the player was rude and demanding with how they worded their wishes, especially getting mad that OP did not want the same thing and calling it the wrong way to play (side note: there is no wrong way to play a game, as long as everyone playing agrees to it). I still think that OP shouldn't nessisarily refuse to consider DMing for any more of this specific friends groups. Basically clear communication and being kind to what other people want fixes both of these.

I don't mind modules. Currently in an Avernus one. DM is using different revisions of it and it is a blast.

I was actually while introducing a new player recently. I needed a fourth as one player decided to just no longer show. Thankfully the party was going to clear out an abandoned silver mine that had been taken over by a basilisk. So I just had the player be one of the petrified statues and be cured back in town.

Wife needs a thousand Deedee plushies

They asked a question without a published answer in the book, just stare at them. Piercing DM stare activate

You know as quickly as I would probably begin to get irritated, I would genuinely love to run a module for that group. I would absolutely love to watch them get angry and frustrated at me when I do exactly what they said and not answer any of their questions or give allow them to roll for literally anything that isn't intended. Genuinely sounds like a blast to let them wallow in their own moronic ideas.

I don't see why the group can't just run the module themselves. When I was new to DnD I played a small party and ran through the modules I had; it was a fun way to play when I didn't have anyone to play with. If the group wants the module to be ran /exactly as written/ then they can read it themselves. What are they going to miss out on? "Well NOW we know what questions we're supposed to ask"? "Well now we've been spoiled! I didn't know Strahd was evil!"? Sure, don't do it for a mystery module (unless it's written really well), but they don't need to bring in a person to run their book.

Wife needs a thousand plushies

the second story sounds more like the group wants the dm to read them a book, just changing the names of the main character. like lord of the rings, instead of the fellowship as we know it, its their names in it

Wife needs 10,000 DeeDee plushies. In fact, Wife will take the entire stock.

For the first story thank you for bringing up the fact that the DM can change when are where the new character shows up. I am by no means a great DM, but I am a forever DM (I love it) and have introduced 7 characters into campaigns while active. I have never made a player sit for more than 30 mins before bringing their character in. Even in this example where the party was in the wilderness, why not have them hear a muddled voice as they move or discuss matters and find the cleric in a trap of some sort and gagged? I just think there is always a way, get creative.

The modules literally tell you to improvise stuff and make you as the dm come up with dialogue and other stuff to push the story along.

The player that said they wanted CoS run As Written with no changes probably read the module already and did not want any curveballs thrown at them.

With the second story I would just ask the player "How would you know if I deviate from the module?". Because either the player has played the module before, or has access to it to read (and spoil) it. In either case, I wouldn't run the game.

I can not verbally express how much I don't like the idea that a DM can't even say dialogue that isn't in the module or change and/or add stuff. If I followed that rule my Shattered Obilisk cmapaign would immediately disintegrate

Wife needs 10,000 plushies

Second story sounds like a party full of meta gamers who just want to know everything that’s coming up 😂

Wife needs a THOUSAND DeeDee plushies! 😊

5:24 this is why I play in-person as well, love playing in-person

Wife needs a thousand Deedee plushies! My wife has required me to comment.

Wife needs a thousand Deedee plushies, please and thank you :)

Hey Duke I hope you're okay after that one, wife gave you a couple evil stares with the "that's what she said jokes" LOL

The look that Amy gave Duke at that last comment of "that's what she said" I think that had me laughing harder than anything in this video.

I wish I could’ve been there when the fighter gave ‘em the stare down afterwards 😂 ~_~

"dont even change a comma" Well, Curse of Strahd is a sanbox module, with not much dialogue written in it... or what the players are supposed to do... and even worse, a lot of stuff is randomized BY DESIGN (for example, where is strahds coffin, where is the magical sword meant to help the players, who are strahds enemies ...) Even if their wishes were reasonable, Curse of Strahd is not the Module for them, in fact its the worst imaginable Module for these players, because the DM is EXPECTED to change and improvise stuff...

On the second one? In every given opportunity where the module does not specify, I would try to set the party members on fire. Empty plains? Fire traps. Long journey? Forest fire. Evil wisard? Always uses fireball. Just to see their expressions when you say “it dosen’t say it isn’t there” when referencing the module. Did they memorize the entire module? I think not.

@bogdanlevi

Ай бұрын

Would you actually agree to DM the party from the second story?

@thekenyonsquad5672

Ай бұрын

@@bogdanlevi I personally would DM for the party just to share the experience (as long as the players agree to a no cheating policy).

Wife needs a thousand DeeDee plushies.

I once sat there for hours along with another player, and the only thing either one of us got to do the whole time was rolling initiative once. Since we rolled low, the monster died before we attacked. They didn't believe that barbarians or rogues had any right to talk to important NPCs, so we were completely left out of all the conversations up to that point. Then, after killing the monster, they wanted to go back and have more conversations, which would leave us out of the game again. Some groups are horrible and should be avoided.

On that first one, if I had a player group tell me that, I'd give them EXACTLY what they wanted. And the *second* they tried to veer off the pre-written material, I'd be like: "NOPE. Can't do that. It's not in the book. NOPE, can't ask me that, it's not in the book. Oh, but you can't ask that since I can't change anything. Not stop asking me this questions, and ask something that's in the book. Can't change anything after all. NOPE can't go off that direction, because the book doesn't account for it. No, you can't long rest here since the book doesn't say that the party has one." Flip that shit back around, and maybe they will see just how incredibly asinine they are being.

@bogdanlevi

2 ай бұрын

I'd save myself some time and warn the players that that's what the game is going to look like. If they want to proceed regardless, then yeah, I'd DM like this too. It would be fun.

Wife needs a 1000 x 1000 DeeDee plushies

My rule with new-in players is that i must incorporate them within the first 30 minutes of gameplay. If i dont have an easy insert, theyre going on a solo quest that leads them to the player group. The second one, how tf does that player think modules work?! That's both impossible with other humans and boring. I do this professionally and obviously acquiesce to my players as many ways as possible. even I would just refund the session and tell them go elsewhere for their game.

I exclusively play online as the group I'm a part of are from all over the country, we play 3 hour sessions, and trying to remember everyone at all times is hard, its difficult to factor everyone in to every session. Especially when certain members are more into rp than others. We tried running modules but it f-ing sucks because its too restrictive. Its a communal storytelling experience. The modules are a guide which require adjustment on a party to party basis. It aint that simple. I started out dm'ing for a group of 8 players which eventually ended up being 4 because of conflicting schedules and life stuff. We now have a solid group of regular players that roll with the punches regardless of anything and rules are loose to a degree. Dnd should always be a collaberative effort for players and dm's as far as im concerned (if your group prefer otherwise that's cool) but it should never feel combative between dm and players

Amy definitely needs a thousand of them. Duke gets the sample. :P

Wife needs 1000

Last story was over everything, except the bridge🤣

that is the average size and is respectable.....not large but not small....and wife needs 1000 didis! 1st story player expected a little too much when she was in a town the party wasn't in...but DM wasn't on the ball.....2nd story those players are out of their dam minds......third story is a classic and points to the fighter lol now if you had done that's what she said one more time i think wife would have bonked you i could see the frustration/irritation written all over her face.....Loved this post! keep being your wonderful selves :)

Regarding the first story, I can definitely understand how a session can sometimes "get away" from the DM, and that can result in one player feeling marginalized for most of the session. (It happens all the time in "Critical Role", and everyone in that group is very professional about it.) But when it comes to a player who is new to the group, I think the DM has to try harder to include that person right away, especially if that player is new to tabletop gaming in general.