Dudes going to be the Gordon Ramsey kitchen nightmares of indie gaming one day 😂😂😂

@kkrup5395

2 жыл бұрын

Nooo, I see him trying his best not to sound rude or offend anyone. He could have gone much much harder on them, they kind of deserved it.

@perssontm1628

2 жыл бұрын

@@kkrup5395 Yeah I mean lets just be honest, the RPG game didn't look fun at all, there's just so many other rpg games I would play instead. This guy was really careful of what he was saying

@SupremeDP

9 ай бұрын

"Indie Nightmares"

Hey John, thanks a lot on reviewing my campaign (Above Snakes)! I enjoyed your video a lot, especially the time machine part 😃 Regarding the initial release date: We wanted to release way earlier but we took the feedback from last years steam summer festival into account and wanted to make Above Snakes a better game. And the kickstarter campaign actually had to wait until a point that we are very certain that we can release at least an alpha shortly after.

@LostRelicGames

2 жыл бұрын

My pleasure Tobias, it's an exemplary campaign and game, a lot of talent. Congrats again, looking forward to your launch!!

@EricAbroad

2 жыл бұрын

Good luck with your game release!

@joyfulfishman5445

2 жыл бұрын

Good luck with release my man, your game looks awesome 😁

You need at least one unique selling point.

@Nebulaoblivion

Жыл бұрын

“Mindblowing” 🙄

2:05 show don't tell buddy. This should have been a concept art piece

Developer, people check your campaign like they check the news: they scroll down an inch or two and leave if what they didn’t see or read didn’t get their attention.

No desire to be mean but the reasons for the campaign failure are plain from a distance…….there just isn’t enough there for a campaign launch and that they do have is poorly presented. I hope John’s thoughtful critique helps them take another more successful run at it.

@Yohoat

5 ай бұрын

Honestly half of these failures just come down to "the game doesn't look fun/good/unique" and I'm constantly baffled by it. I don't understand how people have the willpower to spend thousands of hours doing gamedev, one of the most complex disciplines ever, but can't take a quick step back and ask themselves "would I stop scrolling if I saw this?" Because more often than not, it seems insanely obvious.

115 people from 4500 is 2.5% conversion. That's actually really high. Shocking considering how bland they've made their campaign. Good luck on the re-try guys.

I think Legion Dragons should have spent a lot more time on their prototype before trying to kickstart it, and also the marketing money would have been better spent on paying an industry veteran from the beginning for the type of consulting you’re giving them here. They would have probably even changed or modified the genre and the game design. Be smart with your time and money, people.

@kkrup5395

2 жыл бұрын

I lost it when he revealed their bold claims that it will never bore you and be the best game you experienced.

Enjoyable watch. I'm not a developer, but I appreciate the professionalism in assessing these campaigns. I also congratulate kingdom of Tyra developers for allowing us to scrutinize their campaign, as it takes courage to make yourself vulnerable.

Night and day difference with these campaigns. And the first one is almost too easy "target" to pick on its shortcomings.On the other hand, I would like to point out that even they are likely gonna reach around 30% of their goal.

@HerrHafiz

2 жыл бұрын

yeah.so the graphic /game play. people tend to play in a clear picture/game rather than to increase the brightness of the monitor in the first game.

@oz_jones

Жыл бұрын

Huh, they did get about 29% of the goal. Are you a wizard?

@BlackStarForge

Жыл бұрын

@@oz_jones Pretty safe bet. By the time of the review they had 27,6 %, and since most people donate at the start, I expected that value would not change that much.

This kind of information came at a perfect time as next month I will start promoting my game. While at the same time continuously updating it and finishing up the sound design. I would be lying if I didn't say I wasn't nervous.

@koktszfung

2 жыл бұрын

By promoting do you mean posting some devlogs on KZread and Twitter?

I love when you make videos like these. They allow me to really prepare for what’s to come, it is very much appreciated 💯

I saw Above Snakes while looking at Cursed Crew (made by a friend, bookmarked to back today). And needless to say that isometric art, weird name, and oozing character in that ONE graphic of the isometric terrain falling into place, nailed me. Maybe that's because I, also, am making an isometric game. Maybe it's because there's just something delicious about that lowploy art. But it nails it. The motion really helps.

@BrandanLee

2 жыл бұрын

Also -- add links to these two kickstarters. I'm already subbed and wish listed to you so them getting a link doesnt harm you.

@LostRelicGames

2 жыл бұрын

done

@RadianHelix

2 жыл бұрын

@@LostRelicGames Rockstar

Developers often overestimate how much their story, heroes and worldbuilding is of interest to new player. Its easy to make up stories and characters. And often pretty generic. Dont bore people with this kind of exposition. If you have a generally good game, people will also pay more attention to your story.

When making your product's pitch, it's so important that you think about the pitches that grab your attention (and how you consume them). I also don't watch the main video first. That's a time commitment, so I need to scroll through the campaign information to decide if the video's time commitment is worth it. I'm not currently pitching games, but pitching books is much the same: don't give the potential customer a spiel about a bunch of characters and places they know nothing about. Focus on your hook--just the hook--and make sure that hook is unique instead of riddled with cliches.

@Yohoat

5 ай бұрын

Sometimes I get really worried about my hypothetical future kickstarter crashing and burning, but then I see a game like that still manage to get over 5k with completely misplaced priorities and nothing unique on offer. I really don't understand why self awareness is so rare in indie dev, but it makes me a lot more confident in my own abilities at least.

115 pledged from 4500 subscribers is actually a pretty decent CTR of 2.5%

@fearsomefawkes6724

Жыл бұрын

That was my thought! The fact that they didn't realize that was a high conversion rate really shows that they did not do enough research before going to Kickstarter

I had NO idea about the Wayback machine. That is such an awesome tool to study and learn about how steam pages progress. Sorry I just got really excited about that. Thanks again for an amazing analysis of both of these campaigns.

Great video. It's very interesting to see the different games and where they put in their marketing efforts!

Awesome video as always! Those are some really good tips. I will keep those in mind. Keep it up! :)

Thank you for this analysis. Its interesting how big a difference it makes between gifs and still images.

Just stumbled upon your vids! Love the content 😌

Love the video, would love to see more of these. This is an important part of game dev!

Let me know what you guys think of the campaigns and analysis. Chat on discord: discord.gg/yeTuU53 Above Snakes: www.kickstarter.com/projects/266687617/lonesome-an-atmospheric-wild-west-mystery-rpg Kingdom of Tyra: www.kickstarter.com/projects/562380761/legion-dragons-kingdom-of-tyra?ref=project_tweet

I’ve actually seen Above Snakes awhile back on Reddit and there was no doubt in my mind that they would succeed… and apparently their game made a pretty big impression on me, which Is why I think the kickstarter was boosted so much… I mean don’t get me wrong the kickstarter would have probably done well even without the boost for people not as aware of the project because it was setup so well. but, I think even a mediocre kickstarter could succeed if they had a big enough following, which could be achieved by sharing your game development online through social media such as KZread, Reddit, Twitter, etc. then before even considering kickstarter make sure your project has enough content to succeed… anyway sorry about that tangent and thank you for these types of videos it very helpful for people at this stage in development. I’m still quite a ways from this point but even so it’s very helpful thank you!

Really?! I always go with video first. Also, ya gotta think about the other games in your genre and what fans have expectations for. Fantasy RPGs have it rough. Skyrim, the Witcher, Dark Souls, these are some of the most beloved games of all time and have massive budgets/teams behind them. Trying to go up against them with basically 0 money ya gotta have something that breaks the mold. A cool art style, weird story, unique gameplay - something that adds to the conversation from a single look!

@poiuytrewq1553

2 жыл бұрын

Think it's personal preference. I usually wait on watching the video until I have a quick glance on the page. I don't watch the video at all if the page is unimpressive to begin with.

@GwyndolinOwO

2 жыл бұрын

I agree yeah. Not every game needs to be a masterpiece but they need to have something that makes them interesting. RPG maker made it possible for a lot of people to make rpgs but some of the ones that still stand out today are the ones that did something interesting, be it art, story, or gameplay. A lot of people are making ARPGs these days so making sure you stand out is tough, but kind of necessary at this point. Juice Galaxy is something that stands out a lot to me. The fact that its so weird makes it so enjoyable to play. its not for everyone but its a good example of taking the "3D ARPG" mold and doing something completely new. Its also proof that there's still so many ways to make a game fun that we still haven't explored yet.

It's shocking how out of touch some developers can be (or in denial, perhaps?) It's almost as if a businessman who knows nothing about games, or what it takes to make a good game, is trying to pitch the idea to a room of investors without any real intention of creating a product. Or it's someone who is just young/naive? A bit mind boggling, but I hope that they learn from their mistakes and produce something solid in their futures if they choose to continue! 💪 Either way, great video, as always! Very insightful

I learnt alot from this video thanks. And for the devs goodluck on your game dev journey

I only just discovered your channel. I love how realistic and down to earth you are. Your content is amazing.

@LostRelicGames

Жыл бұрын

Hey thanks Don, I really appreciate that 🙏

My day off and this video lined up, amazing

Nice, it didn't take a long to wait for a new video... thanks It's weird, I'm not a game developer but I like to watch your videos👏👏

Another excellent video, thx

This is very helpful thank you for making this video

Super helpful for crowdfunding in general. Thank you!

Fantastic video thank you for sharing, very useful and interesting

I'm blown away from the naiveness of devs around the world. Surely (hopefully) are young, full of optimism younglings.

Second game is lot like Lens Island in terms of graphics. But I think they have some unique selling point. Great video mate. Congrats on 50K🎉

Is that first campaign using the Zelda font? lmao

John, please make more kickstarter video :D Like 1 short project review for 5 mins is enough

The only thing John thought was good about the legion dragon is the font and it's the Zelda font.

Valuable info!!

As a learning developer these videos are very very helpful to me. Since I am working solo with no budget, marketing is very important to me. I have spent a good amount of time studying marketing via videos like these. Without these videos by you and other KZreadrs I wouldn't have a hope in hell. My thanks to you :)

What the heck is going on? Am I in some kind of trend? I want to start Kickstarter next month, when my demo is completed. It's a really good time for this video 😎👍

I think they got much more than what i would expect, that video is really short showing almost nothing

6:19 Mind Unblown

Kickstarter has become a platform that, in my opinion, no longer lives up to its name. As the two examples in John's post clearly show, projects in an early stage of development hardly get any attention. Instead, projects that are so far advanced in their development (and, as in this case, are even supported by publishers) prevail that they don't really need a Kickstart anymore. John's arguments regarding the reasons for Kickstarter's change around 9:00 are all correct and understandable, however I wonder what opportunities Kickstarter offers game developers with committed part-time projects at a very early stage that actually need a Kickstarter to start (not finish) their project.

@jimkurth

Жыл бұрын

I agree. I think Kickstarter should require budgets presented. Anyone can launch a kickstarter, whether they are a 15 year-old with no financial education on business expensing, or a professional adult seeking thousands to cover budgeted and quoted expenses. I, personally, would never launch a kickstarter without having requested quotes and produced a financially viable budget as well as describe/define where the investment will go. That's what investors do when they seek funding. I think too many people have watched Shark Tank and think that's how you ask for money from investors. Definitely having a vetted application for Kickstarter would go a long ways to weed out the projects done by people who just want money and the people who take it seriously and need that money, as you stated.

22:24 and 22:29 That's a different Steam store pages! Both landed by Crytivo so probably it was something like relaunch steam page.

First off wanted to say; love your talking style man, I assume everyone watching can hear your super clear pronunciation the way I can, goes a long way making sure you're well understood and shows deep engagement with what you're working on which makes for a sense of infectious enthusiasm/captivation. On the content of the video: I think it would be good to be just a bit more specific with the mindset you're framing your criticisms from as the consumer, you already cover a lot of points but consumers aren't robots, like you could say 'you might feel bored looking at some vague text block instead of being shown the best parts of a project you're thinking of spending money on, people don't really spend money on reading about a game they spend it on seeing it' - As you rightly pointed out, people have shorter patience with kickstarters these days which is exactly why being concise with content is so important (getting right to gameplay, showing some gifs and link to the steam-page - basically just get a bit more elaborate and emotional about the negatives like if you feel you might be getting ripped off; just be a tad more blunt haha, if you're cheeky about the occasional comment it won't come off as mean in this context. To offset that emotional negativity I'd recommend throwing on a few extra positive and motivational comments like "if you keep working at it you'll keep improving and you've gotten pretty far already, you can obviously code and animate and you have some nicely synced attacks and effects which is a great start, people are looking for more than that and you need to think about and discover what that is so you can focus the next part of your development around it" and then list off a few areas you recommend to focus on most; to show that even if this project hasn't gone well, there's still definitely positive aspects and strong workmanship going into the project and it should be acknowledged instead of just left unsaid - just cos its nice to hear, too. I had a mate that recently did a kickstarter, it didn't finish but he wasn't immediately dissuaded, he relaunched the kickstarter and aimed at a lower goal matching what his project was currently worth to his backers, in this instance, if the first campaign you showcased did this, they could be $8,000~ richer and pour that back into development time, assets or all kinds of other interesting stuff that will make their game stand out a bit more from its genre, then later when they launch again with their new improved game - it will catch on more for sure and everyone wins! Contrasting each campaign against each other, doing some search results and showing the difference in level and veracity of marketing was a perfect side by side of how different things can look, so just reaffirming with a comment like "therefore, one area you could improve is marketing since it can make a big difference to the success of a project" - and if you don't think that would cut it alone without improvements to focusing on unique gameplay, then just say that as-well. Great vid tho. 9/10. Informative and smart. Glad I started watching them and I'm defs hooked for more, it's great to see an upcoming content producer doing so much right and making it look so easy haha

Hey I noticed that the early Above Snakes UI for the backpack is the same as Little Devil Inside, like they used the same graphic. Perhaps a unity asset or something? 🤷🏻‍♂️

From my perspective Kingdom of Tyra over estimated the value of their game for a Kickstarter... there is no way I can see most people supporting the starting price of 51 pounds.... if they started at $20 they would have gotten far more support and probably hit their goal.

Not the misspelled thumbnail ☠️☠️

I agree in every word you said, sometimes the hard truth can save people come to realization.

Only about 4 minutes in to your discussion but already can say the first game looks a) dark and b) boring. Even in their highlight shots I can barely pick the character out from the background and he's a boring red block with a generic face. I don't see any unique selling points at all and nothing that hasn't already been done a hundred or a thousand times by companies with bigger budgets. Edit to add: if you're making a playable demo, 100% this should be done and available when you launch the Kickstarter. People being able to download and play a sample of the game will be a huge selling point if it's any good. Regarding Above Snakes, you notice SplatterCat covered it last summer? *And* recently? Even if people aren't familiar with him in particular, the same KZread game reviewer covering it twice six months apart says a) he liked it well enough the first time to give it his time again and b) they've been working on it and have a playable artifact for a *while*. Plus they can watch those videos (and the ones by other reviewers of which there seem to be plenty) if the game catches their interest and they want to learn more. (Personally I think it looks like a great project and I wish them all the best, even if it's not my thing in particular.)

Big KZreadrs and Twitch streams have been playing Above Snakes over the last couple weeks.

where can I find your previously released games?

Hi, can you make a video about how developers from countries which are not supported by kickstarter and indiegogo can do a crowdfunding campaign?

More games need "groundbreaking PC gameplay"

Unfortunately, crowdfunding became Catch-22: you need money/time to make a good campaign, but the whole point of doing a campaign is because you need money to develop a game. As a developer capable of making a game, but not having a public portfolio and/or savings to burn through, I don't know how to get off the ground.

@AllanSavolainen

2 жыл бұрын

Well, it isn't that catch-22, just have a dayjob and work on the prototype on evenings or weekends. Or be a student. Do that for a year and you should have something that is kickstartable. In any case you probably need that 6-12 months of social media updates, dev blogs etc to succeed anyways.

@mov4736

2 жыл бұрын

not really. The issue here is not about being "capable of making a game", emphasis on "a game". There are already millions on steam/itch/whatever. crowdfunding is like pitching to investors: "why should we invest in your game creation?" Honestly, I'm no expert but a good chunk of postings there are poorly presented. There is also an element of skepticism nowadays because of scams or poor quality (like mighty no.9 ). public portfolio is something you need for any creative field, not much you can do about that as a single person. (regardless of whether you have savings or got funded on kickstarter)

@LizardOfOz

2 жыл бұрын

​@@AllanSavolainen While you can work on a game after working on your day job, it's not healthy working conditions that will squeeze you dry within a few months. This shouldn't be considered normal. Being able to leave your old day job to experiment and make prototypes should be.

@AllanSavolainen

2 жыл бұрын

@@LizardOfOz But how to finance that 3 to 6 to 12 months of prototyping? We here at the Pirate Party Finland are trying to get basic income passed, which would make this possible. So maybe in 5-10 years this could be possible?

@AllanSavolainen

2 жыл бұрын

@@LizardOfOz as a programmer I only need to work 2-3 days per week to live, so that is an option. Easier also as I don't live in a big city.

You have GOT to be related to Modern Vintage Gamer

Nowadays with all of the bots and rebrand shenanigans, I've pretty much written off Twitter as a waste of time. Am I wrong for thinking that?

The "mind bloeing" and "never bore" really makes this feels like a souless cash grab Even if that wasnt the intention of the devs this is the sort of statement you make when your game has nothing else to offer As an exemple this is basically the same thing that made people angry about the gta 5 ps5 trailer

@oz_jones

Жыл бұрын

Yeah. If its not done in an over-the top, snarky way (preferably in a video, because you can make the tone more obvious) it's a bad look.

I have a serious question: If you would start a kickstarter campaign for your dream Quake style FPS game you're making If you have the skill and knowledge to create a convincing and exciting page about it How much would you ask for it?

@GwyndolinOwO

2 жыл бұрын

that's kind of a vague question. here's some things to ask yourself: How long did/will it take to develop? How much are you hoping to get paid in profits? what is the general quality of the game and what market prices for that quality already exist? Is there demand for that kind of game? If there's a stronger demand you might be able to ask for more, but if the demand is low you might not get as much interest. Since its a kickstarter, will there be any physical rewards or are you just giving the game as the reward for backers, or nothing at all? How far into the development are you when starting the campaign? Will you be going solo or are you using the money to pay a salary for employees and contract work? You're not just thinking about the price of the game, you basically need to plan out a roadmap of your development and then budget that development, and there's a lot that goes into the development of a game besides just figuring out its selling price. Its also common that a lot of developers tend to ask for too little, but some also shoot too high, so making sure you ask for something reasonable is good. but "reasonable" is highly subjective.

Yep kickstarter is almost a way of pre-purchasing or a sort of marketing kickoff, you really need to come up with the proper setup for it. It really feels like the packages that we probably all own that is always included on various fantasy pack. Which is quite awful to be honest gameplay-wise. without a steam page you also miss out on converting and engage the Wishlist train

I must say this looks like a game built with the RPG Builder asset in unity. The entire game at this point would have taken me about a week.

Cryptivo is a good publisher. No wonder their KS was good too.

3:50 i dont think one afternoon is enough to create models and rigs thou….

That first one gives the impression they lack the ability to complete the project. No one owes a developer a moment of their time or a dime of their money. Where's the effort to bring something of value to the people who would potentially give their money to the campaign? and if you don't have enough faith in a project to put your name on it publicly why should anyone else have enough faith in it to give you their money? A first name only signature at the very bottom of the page is the only place they make any mention of who they are. That sets off alarms. The second one, he's put his face on it and his name right at the top, that alone puts it miles ahead of the first one. He also did a very good job of showing he has put effort and work in, and that he likely has the ability to finish the project. And... a personal testimonial video that looks professional, people want that story and will invest it.

how is Kingdoms of Tyra not a scam? is the dev genuinely surprised

Even when you got 0€, remember Fnaf failed at kickstarting too

You need to make this your trademark series and be a bit more harsh on the games.

First game for me looks like money scam

The main font in top of campaign looks too much like BOTW. First I thought it was a ripoff.

The first game seemed like they were seeking to quit their job and learn unity and expected the public at large to fund their learning journey and just hope for the best.

I feel sorry for them indie projects who want the money and soon, only to find out it fails :(

I agree with most of what you said about the first project, but i do think you did a disservice to their project by not showing the gameplay trailer at all at the top of the kickstarter page. They didnt do a good job on the kickstarter page, but the gameplay trailer you can see they put time into it. The big issue is the amount of money they are asking for this project is way too much. Great content as usual. Just a small disagreement.

@GwyndolinOwO

2 жыл бұрын

true but i understand his reasoning. It doesn't matter how much effort a dev puts into something if its something that a good chunk of people arent going to look at. Sure some people will watch it so looking at the trailer would be nice, but something brought up on another game dev channel interview is that after some studies, they found out that most people skim through videos by clicking through the player bar. So even if you have a nice video, if there's not enough interesting shots someone skimming can completely miss the catch of the game. this is a problem that happens with all projects, people don't read or look at everything you post, but its something to heavily keep in mind. If you don't have text and images/gifs that explain your game there's a huge chance a lot of people will have no idea what the game is about. (the price is also an issue but if the page is done better they could have at least gotten closer to their goal) So i kinda agree but he pointed out enough problems that a game play trailer alone being good or even bad wouldn't change much.

@AntTonyPony

2 жыл бұрын

@@GwyndolinOwO i 100 percent agree, but i just think for this video the game trailer should have been shown at some point.

I would have loved to back some things over the years, but they still don't accept PayPal. And I refuse to get a credit card or join yet another bank service just for this.

its all about show don't tell

Wait... 4500 subscribers... as in kickstarter pre-launch follows... or like... social media following? 4500 for KS pre-launch should have put them upwards of $500,000 by end of campaign. There's absolutely no way they pulled 4500 pre-launch follows... What is that "subscriber" number? Also, if that *is* their pre-launch follows, then that means they spend a LOT of money on ads... like thousands of dollars to manage to get 4500 follows. Way more than their campaign is currently at.

@Konitama

2 жыл бұрын

Also... haven't watched video yet but the first huge mistake I see Kingdoms of Tyra made was listing all of their stretch goals right away. Seeing their highest goal of $300,000 when they are asking for $22,000 and are only at $6,000 is not a great look. Save your stretch goal reveals until AFTER you've hit your initial campaign goal.

@musikalniyfanboichik

2 жыл бұрын

He means youtube followers

try godot

First 🥇

It's pretty plain man. Do mediocre work, get worser results.

Your candy coating this crap waaaay too much.

So basically its entirely up to the marketing you did beforehand, and the actual kickstarter doesn't really matter provided you show the actual game. And when you look on how to market things you get conflicting information. Thanks for nothing.

I just want to say thank you for this lovely video. I'm new to kickstarter as someone who wants to start supporting games in development. There's a game on there right now that the trailer looks AMAZING for. It's called Another Day Off and I was instantly in love with it. I didn't want to support it though because... well... with 12 days to go it has 0% funding with only 12 backers. I don't know how all this works so I'm assuming that the game probably won't get made if it's not funded and I probably won't get my money back. I also looked up the dev and didn't find anything, but I was wondering if maybe I am misunderstanding the space. Maybe it's normal for there to not be a ton of info on a page. This kinda made me realize that before I bother supporting anything I should see what to look for in kickerstarters and what to support. Enter your video. Getting through the first half of it... it made me realize there are A LOT of red flags for this game based on what you said. There's a good trailer here and a description of the games story... but the page doesn't describe what work has been done up to this point or what the money would go towards. The goal is $160,000. So thank you for helping me understand this space a little better. Like I said... I REALLY love the look of this game. But especially after your video I feel like it's not something I should invest my money in.