"Ele shaman is really good, especially if your European or a robot" got me to laugh out loud.

These lists keep getting their ratings overall inflated over the years. When it started A was the very top, then S was invented for absolutely bonkers broken stuff, now S is basically the new A and there's S+ and GOD tier that is the new S. In 5 years I'm looking to see S being like the new B or C and the best comps are in SSJ4 BEASTMODE GOD+ tier

@peterwestenthaler7954

6 ай бұрын

this needs more likes.

@neutral8891

6 ай бұрын

This is the Problem about wow, they didnt stop with the class Tuning since vanilla, till wotlk the classes felt full but Not to full and now everything is overtuned. Every heal got like 4 Big deffs that u need to go througg so that u can Land a kill. They should stop obertuning classes and just make broken classes less broken

@robdabanks

6 ай бұрын

As a Frost DK main (knowing people said they were bad since like SL) I tend to think of it like, you might have a ton of bozos trying to learn flavour of the month, but someone like me will work to master my class and appear far less than the S+ ones do, so trickier for people to anticipate.

@edwardhatfield5360

6 ай бұрын

I'm not sure if it existed before but I thought that God tier was invented. When the 10.7 patch hit and a Retribution Paladin could kill somebody from looking at them and casting like two judgments. Sixty nerfs later and retribution is barely playable but, the difference retribution had compared to a lot of other specs made it "God Tier" If only for three days. At that time, Retribution paladin's tuning would have made it the only S spec. While at the same time there was several specs. That could kill someone in three or four seconds, they were not matching the retribution paladins pretty much guaranteed three seconds and since removed tankiness. Having an S plus tier or god tier Is where specs are placed when at the time their damage is unstoppable and they're tankiness rivals actual tanks and healers.

@TehMezdawg

6 ай бұрын

inflation

Do tiers for regular players. Who tf cares about tournament tier lists? Those players already know whats good. Most of the audience is casual, regular players.

@drewwil891

6 ай бұрын

Absolutely agree but I don’t think he’s understand the regular folk like ourselves. Kinda like our president rn

@frostgodx

6 ай бұрын

💀

@frostgodx

6 ай бұрын

When you spend a decade at the top there’s not a chance you can relate to the bottom

@deanterry123

6 ай бұрын

Fuck didn't even think about that but trueeee

@MrJeremydb91

6 ай бұрын

Yes please

When you have S and S+, it's like in Spinal Tap when their amps go to 11. Don't add s+. It's silly. If you need more tiers add E and F. Five years from now you'll have like S+ gold, s+ silver, s+bronze, and S+, S tier, A tier, B tier, etc.

With the way these lists play out i think a different scale is necessary. Something like Meta / Viable / Questionable / No. That way when the top tier has the most in it as 'Meta' you can clearly see what the current meta is.

As a maker of Tier Lists pretty often the stacked S tier and S+ is funny cos I do believe that S tier is for Top of the Meta picks, A is solid, B is solid but not really profiting, C you're taking a loss, D is you're actually griefing yourself and your team. When there is a lot of S and no D that's a fairly healthy metagame, I just call S+ tier BROKEN and it gets the point across. I can't really rate your picks but the data suggests you're pretty much on point.

God I love it when Ven says, "Okay?" after literally every single sentence. He means business.

I'd love to see a, "Get into pvp/beginner" tier list. As Im someone who wants to do something else than PvE.

@carefae3589

6 ай бұрын

Play Warrior or DH

@TheNeiven

6 ай бұрын

In terms of melee DPS for a beginner: Both Warrior specs though Fury perhaps suits beginners bit better since it is mostly Single target in terms of its gameplay Ranged DPS: BM Hunter... and Ele shamy. Both offer gameplay more or less devoid of hard casting, decent enough tanknies and very straightforward damage profile Healer: Personally would suggest Paladin. They have their weaknesses but their powerful CDs mean you can play in somewhat reactive way.

@jeff230394

6 ай бұрын

Or boomkin or demo lock​@@carefae3589

@jeffbarbary5616

6 ай бұрын

BM hunter, Fury warrior, and DH probably the easiest. Frost DK it easy too just squishy so you have to kite more.

The double/split tier lists would be interesting for sure.

I quit playing my Elemental because everyone doesn't think there's a human behind the keyboard. There's become a big problem with any elemental shaman that wins a round and everyone immediately thinks it is a bot. So now I play Frost mage, the class I played from the very beginning. Great to come back to the mage

@Bloody123Knuckles

6 ай бұрын

Sorry to hear that bro, that really stinks you had to switch for that reason

Holy Paladin seems really strong, I went from never playing this season to 1779 in one sitting starting with green gear. Just blasted up without much trouble and no practice. Maybe it’s just inflation

Thinking about coming back too play some shuffle's, How is the Arena solo Que Dps timer ? still 20 minutes?

As a guy who started as Ret for the season and then after a month switched to UDK (always been my fav spec fantasy and lore wise anyways) this guy had me cussin and steamin there for a second with that original Ret rating. Overall I agree with this list

This is a very NA list.. Elemental on EU is utterly insane and belongs in GOD class.

also want to mention. i pvped today for 14 hours non stop. saw 8 people with kick bot. i thought blizz had ban wave of these not so long ago.

Not gonna lie, you got me for a second with that Ret S tier. I was like, how and when that happened

You had me at ret for a second. LMAO I was like wait a minuteeeee

Shadow priest is A the utility it has can win matches without even doing damage. Sadly it doesn't have the damage it needs to win if you shut down the burst they are easy to kill with pressure

Looking forward to "Easiest for beginners tier list" :) Especially in terms of learning basics of arenas.

I spend way too much time regularly analyzing the ladder rankings (I've got bad Alt-itis and I've been trying to narrow down what classes I want to main), and I agree with 99% of Venruki's rankings. Any changes I would make to the list would be nit-picking and have strong counter-arguments at best. Now that the season is starting to settle it seems like one of the more balanced seasons. The only specs that feel too oppressive/OP are Sub Rogue (because the only thing that can consistently beat a Sub Rogue is a better Sub Rogue), and Ele Shaman (because their burst damage is too RNG and with some lucky dice rolls they can just insta-kill people with no counterplay options).

I think outlaw is worse than you think i'd put outlaw high A tier and put assa high B

One little criticism here is that if we base it off of the best players, fire mage is literally nr 1 on the eu ladder (raiku ofc playing rmd with whaazz) and surv hunter (bicmex) has been rank 1 on the solo ladder.

this man said "if you're European or a robot" got me to laugh. As an honest NA ele getting run down I love it.

Good tier list. Only changes I think I would make is to move spriest up, and swap disc and rsham position.

assa should be in B tier

No augmentation evoker?

I main Frost DK, I have for a very very long time BUT it just feels SO BAD right now to where I just don't wanna play it anymore.

resto shaman is cheeks C tier in solo shuffle ppl walk out of totems so much I feel so bad for them. they are excellent with competent players on higher mmr

What about for a casual player who only does rbg? What’s best classes for a player like that an hour a day

Omg I forgot about you dude. I watched your mage videos back in Cata.

A short while ago he was totally outraged about the buff for MM Hunter and a few days later he puts him at B-tier. I don't know why why people are upset about the buff. An MM, for example, has no chance against a Rogue.

Why is ele more popular in euro?

Enh shaman and frost dk still waiting for some love

Pretty good list! I would move Survival up to A (shoutouts to Bicmex), and Pres to A. For anyone that wants to play Frost DK, I do agree that it's that low on the list but that doesn't mean it can't win games. You still crank out big dam and you can setup your team really well. You'll have to work harder than other specs but I've been having a (howling) blast holding W in shuffle until I win.

I dont know what i should play since pvp is kinda new to me. I want a class that is good in duels and can also be viable in bgs and arenas, but it doesnt have to be overpowered. Basically just viable for everything whithout having to constantly switch talents or specs. I played PVE for many years of my WoW career and mostly as heal, and only time i ever qued for pvp was when there was some quest or something or to get temporary quick piece of gear that i was missing. I know i wont be playing heal in pvp because its just not fun at all, everyone just ganks me constantly and most of my time is spent just sitting in constant CC or running around pillars. I hate that there are millions of little interrupts and CC all the time, and i feel like they cant balance healers properly. In wrath i tried playing holy pala and no one could kill me in bgs but still we lost all the time.

It doesnt matter how bad sub rogue is, Venruki will always put it in S+ tier

seems spot on to me

personally holy paladin would be a b tier healer. When pressured we oom so fast

Boomy s tear, is it a joke? Maximum middle A. monk/dh are god tear not even close to s/a

Hahahaha! I was about to say about that ret choice!! hahaha! Got me!

Demon Hunter has won a few of the tournaments for solo

Where is Augmentation Evoker? Or they arent played much in PvP at all?

@WickdGamr

6 ай бұрын

Confused me too. I see them more than deva.

Dev is super slept on. I'd actually put it on A+.

are you rating individual tournament players or classes Y_Y

I would like to see Blizz try harder to get new players into pvp. I think a new arena for players that have never got glad. I'm below average and have been against rank 1 players and this should not happen. Once you've got over a high rating/glad your not allowed into the new player arena. This would let more people think getting certain ranks mounts a little more achievable. Then just flat out getting trained whole games.

@jeffbarbary5616

6 ай бұрын

What more can they do? Serious question. They have solo shuffle and probably next season they got solo rated bgs. I think they could make random bgs actually solo to stop groups and premade stomping. They literally couldn’t make it any easier to get into rated though.

@Copiumgold

6 ай бұрын

@jeffbarbary5616 getting into rated isn't the problem. New players will at some point come up against r1 players. And will be destroyed. I'm just something that would allow new players their own ladder would be nice without fear being stomped once you've hit a decent rating. Not many play rated pvp due to this. Watch some of the top players and they are constantly against the same people, different characters but same players and this happens at low rating not just high. Solo shuffles is OK but we all know how bad it is when one of the healers hasn't a clue or there's a low geared noob. They get bullied the whole game and your loosing those rounds

@jeffbarbary5616

6 ай бұрын

@@Copiumgold that’s actually not a bad idea. Eventually though as you get better you will always run into the rank 1 guys. I agree though they need to fix the rating right now.

Didn’t play for season start. Is the situation still broken with 2200-2400 filled with multiglads?

@Asmodeius

6 ай бұрын

multiglads sitting in 1700 - 1800 right now. season is mad deflated.

@daveyjonesx

6 ай бұрын

@@Asmodeius:((

@ziggs123

6 ай бұрын

@@Asmodeius thats not true at all. DF glads are around 2.2-2.4ish now, mmr infaltion is kicking in for sure

@Sumoboi1

6 ай бұрын

in shuffle or 3s? borderline s2 glads definitely arent 2400 yet in 3s, probly more around 2k@@ziggs123

@ziggs123

6 ай бұрын

@@Sumoboi1 ok 2.4 is still r1 but definitely 2.2 is manageable. We will need couple more weeks but its way better than 1-2 weeks ago in 3s.

I more less agree, maybe BM and Surv hunter could be a tab higher, A tier at least, they are very strong imho

@Popikaify

6 ай бұрын

Bm is,sv isnt unless ur bicmex

As a returning player 15+ years im so old my pvp spec of choice was reckbomber pally or ele shaman. Lets just say im completely overwhelmed atm. Really enjoy your content and your passion for the game.

"Here is my personal tier lists!" - Begins to reference decisions based on online statistics. 🤣

WW needs to be S+, the spec is disgusting

I wish blizz hired a dev for fdk...

you should make an S+OMEGA tier

every expansion, we ask blizzard, stop making pvp and pve only about cooldown stacking, and every expansion they double down and make CDs stronger.

Sub is so insanely difficult to play and actually get your team kills right now.

Imagine being a die hard tank player with tank posters on ur wall just to have ur world shattered by no one giving a single thott 2 tanks in this vidz

The existence of havoc DH and how easy they are makes me want to puke

I am not convinced about devastation, argument evoker is deleted from game😂

Maybe I just haven’t seen any good outlaws but they don’t seem that good in the rat leagues (1800-2200).

I think if all list as S, none are.

almoust like everytime i get in solo shuffle as ele shaman, I meet on 3 melee... fuck my life then, i cant win against a DH and a DK/rogue

UH is disgusting Whenever I heal vs them you need to drop double PS or wall personal + a CD + rapture and sometimes swap. Or blow immunity CD. They shit me up the wall they are so annoying

So two things to say: It's a TIER LIST so there should ALWAYS be a D tier AND always be a S tier, you made the point yourself by getting rid of the ridiculous and dramatic extra top tier. I feel this way because they are comparative. The changes you made out of sarcasm made sense until you did a Tank tier thing. Add that all tanks are trash as a caviat and move on, makes the content more valuable because people value your opinion as a skilled and seasoned vet of the game! Secondly - idk WHO you are watching play Arms warrior (please tell me lol) but imo - and I'm NOT super high rated but I'm decent at 1600 - and a life time warrior player - unless youre with a healer that is on comms with you - aint - no - way. And I think there is value you saying that this tier list has caviats. "Lets make this assumption that the player is" : at least XXXX rated, or in a top tier comp for your class, or/and has the least amount of counter play. (just like someone said at the end of the video to add in a High/Low level tier list)

*cries in holy priest*

Outlaw S tier lmao yeah in what hit n run???? Lol please play Rogue specs.

No glacial, all mastery frost mage is such a sleeper spec.

Can someone explain to me how Resto Shaman is getting this much acclaim?

@Sumoboi1

6 ай бұрын

my guess would be because its better in 3s than solo shuffle, thats kind of the problem with a tier list that doesnt separate the 2 modes

@Boredonthejob

6 ай бұрын

@Sumoboi1 yeah it should. The majority of players are in Shuffle, I'd guess. Unless it's a tourney list I'd default to SS but what do I know.

@DW-ls8pn

6 ай бұрын

@boredonthejob I feel ya. I play mostly shuffle and even with 6,766,876,977 pings people still run out of my earthen wall totem

@williamharrington3595

6 ай бұрын

ya ​@@DW-ls8pn

@williamharrington3595

6 ай бұрын

rsham is butt turd in solo shuffle

Wait you can go with healing spec to arena? Why people are trying to kill eachother and someone is healing them? that is stupid next thing you tell me you can go tank spec and hold agro and make players atack you

agree

How is sub rogue above DH and WW 💀

@ChromaticEagle

6 ай бұрын

Shadowy duel my guy

I know you base off specs off the best players, but the problem is those players like whizk and pikaboo, will always make their specs strong and work. You need to start looking at the majority of the player base and not the top tier players cuz those top tier players will always make the specs good even if they aren't. With that said i honestly think SP is C tier. SP sucks to play in 2s, 3s and solos.

Ven's biggest issue when it comes to rankings is putting everything in S tier. If everything is S then nothing is S. He also never considers the amount of counters some specs have like DK's being very weak to melee dmg ie warriors and rogues which should affect their ranking. Every list is just "yeah, everything is S except for these 3 specs."

'If you r european or robot' wtf does that mean? 😂

@Bloody123Knuckles

6 ай бұрын

It’s confirmed. Europeans are robots

Florence and the machine yes king

Looks on durstvar - sub rog is low mid tier in every rating - rates sub rog s+++ Makes sense.

@frostgodx

6 ай бұрын

😂

aug?

Ret paladins that are that high were before all the other casters got buffed that countered them and the weaker dps got buffs Ret in the game as it stands today is B+ at best. Still the worst hybrid healing in the game and squishy once out of shields BoP and DP.

I think if you gonna make a tierliest maybe include all specs.

devastation is A+ and so is Shadow Priest

as a 600 sub rogue, surely we're D rated, yeah? :D jkjk

Shadow is unplayable right now. Maybe if you are the best shadow with the best partners in the game they are great but they are literally melee target dummies.

Lets goooo

"Ele is good if you're european or a robot" xD

Everything is great but DH should be in S. You looked at the data and it's literally top in everything at any rating, dunno why you put it in A just becaues the 20 same people who always play the AWC wouldn't win with it

Actually coming back to this again, I'm even more surprised how tf Ven puts something like Unholy in S tier. with stuff like dh and arms and lock specs.

Rsham being A+ seems a little off. It struggles in shuffles. It’s 5th in US 2400+ healing representation and 4th in EU. It’s also 5th in US 3v3 healer representation for top 500 (although 2nd in EU, which makes sense considering EU meta) so I think overall A seems more fair. I do agree it’s good and probably underrated though. Solid list

@StrobeFireStudios

6 ай бұрын

Solid take, I agree with you. I think rsham is one of those specs that can massively excel in the right hands, or massively suck when an average Joe logs in and plays a shuffle while already tilted

I come here just to confirm that the tiers that Venruki makes are stupidly bad. This game has become ranges + rogue/dh.

by this tier list balance is pretty good ... almost every class have A+ spec

They need to tune melee down, it's world of melee craft right now it seems

Ele/Dh/ww in EU at least are out of control disgusting

So this tier list only caters to top 100 players. Ok.

I don't comment on vods much but whenever some people who are popular who have put in the work and the grind, who know these classes I like to tune in and see. The problem I have is that its mainly for ranked play and like the comments down below, I am a casual pvper. I dipped my toes in the MoP and got a 1600 rating on my BDK and a 2000 on my bm hunter just to get conq gear. With that being said, I wish someone would make an accurate pvp casual list. I know these are mainly for "hey if you want to get into ranked, here's the current list" I feel bad if someone took this to heart while leveling up say a Fury Warrior, saw this and was like f this and stopped because you made a list and now they either swap to arms or say level up a rogue. To say a Tank doesn't matter or put it at the D tier list, that's just stupid. Sure at a Ranked Match, yeah you don't see a tank but you put one into a random bg, epic bg or even a brawl, I as a BDK, can hold off a good amount of people. Battleground Blitz: I can hold off upwards to 3 to 4 players depending on who they are, at one node, sure I have to pop almost everything through out the fight but half the team attempting to take one person down. Random BGs, almost the same thing, struggle with a narrow focus to take me down while my team is capturing the nodes or I stall you in an area for a bit. Random Epic BGs, more BDKs have emerged. We are outhealing the healers in certain instances. On a losing IOC, I healed at 353 million, closest healer to me was 129 million. When I see these lists now, I take em with a grain of salt. We all have a differencing of opinions. When I go into mainly, Random Epic BGs: Fury Warriors with the new recent buffs, they hit hard. I got hit by a 258k crit from bloodthirst. Arms Warriors are insane esp with bladestorm and then mortal strike addition, hit me for 183k crit. Frost Mages hit hard. An Enh Shaman takes me the distance in a 1v1. Shadow Priest/Destro Lock when not being hit/chased, they do insane amounts of damage. I've seen a lot more MM hunters stacking mastery with a 50+ range. You synchronize your Snipe Shot and you can down someone very quickly and they won't know who hit you. Just a few examples of what people have been saying for years, play what you want. I don't disvalue if that's a word what Venruki says, it's just some of these lower classes perform very well in Random BGs and that's not with them being followed around by a healer making them look good.

@joshuadaniel6496

6 ай бұрын

Tanks have no place in arena whatsoever, and this is an arena tier list.

I can't really wrap my head around how ww went from being mid at best, got no changes besides a not super impactful SCK buff, got a mediocre tier bonus, and ascended to better than things like DH that do just as much if not more damage, said damage is chaos so it doesnt get fucked by armor, they buff casters they play with, have double the cc on 3 different dr's, have better defensives, and have just as much mobility... and somehow ww is placed above it, what am I missing? Arms does a bit less damage than either probably, but is passively waaaaay more durable and has substantially more utility. I'm just not seeing it

I feel like the perception of sub has always been so skewed because of what exactly ven said. Its really only the top 1% that make it seem "broken" espcially after the most recent nerfs. The average sub rogue player is not even remotely good by comparison, and they encompus fair more of the class then the 1%.

@viberaider6852

6 ай бұрын

Yeah playing against sub rogues at 2200 is wildly different than on my alts even at 1800. It's a hard class to master but in the right hands it's amazing. I wouldn't say broken though, if sub leaves holes in the setup it can be shut down pretty well

How in the F is MW lowest healer? xD In most shuffle monk and druid is doing the best.

Tier list for making past 1800. List for also which class is best for blitz!!!

@derkaman123123

6 ай бұрын

Any class and spec can make it past 1800, gotta just get better :)

@Fabolousyo

6 ай бұрын

All my classes are over 1800 atm and i am definitely not a good player

@yuno3166

6 ай бұрын

i have 14 toons at 70. i have 2 only 1800 + in solo 2s and 3s . if you play above 1800 right now you are better then average dude lol. not alot of glads out there..... @@Fabolousyo

@yuno3166

6 ай бұрын

just talking this season unless it will be fixed in a few weeks here and balanced out from what blizz did to fix it but the last month at 1800 was rough lol oor im getting old

Really surprised to see Mistweaver so low. They annoy the heck outa me. I think at low-med ratings, MW does really well because people don't know how to deal with it. I think in tourney you'd see a lot of rogue/mage/boomie maybe destro. I defer to you of course on outlaw, but as someone who has played it, I don't understand how it comes close to Sub in any content. Makes me wonder if I was missing something as Outlaw.

@josenievesrodriguez4077

6 ай бұрын

The problem is that once cacoon is used, mist weaver is cacconover :(

BM S+

Ret on par with surv.....hahhaha ret is eating arms warriors for lunch right now

Bruh i see you laughing tumbnail at frost dk there . That hurts man not cool 😢😢😢😢

yo