Please tell your editor THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THOSE SOUND CLIP INSERTS. they add so much context and value to your discussion. Much appreciated

@air-headedaviator1805

Жыл бұрын

Paolo a beast

@kylewise3111

Жыл бұрын

I second this! I was listening to the podcast at work and it seriously made such a difference

@catonehere

Жыл бұрын

Query answers

Derek really found his comedic groove in this episode

I know I'm late to the party, but I have some corrections and additions to Cammisa's musical analysis for those interested: Four-stroke five-cylinder engines do not produce a perfect fifth, but rather a major tenth, which is an octave plus a major third above the base note. If you take an E1 at 41.2 Hz, for example, and multiply it by 2.5 (in a five-cylinder, there are five exhaust pulses for every two crank rotations, hence 2.5 pulses for every one crank rotation), you get 103 Hz, which is nearly a G#2, a major tenth above E1. A ten-cylinder engine keeps the major third sound of a five-cylinder, but adds another octave in between (E1 to G#3). To get a perfect fifth interval, which has a ratio of 3:2, you'd need a four-stroke three-cylinder. A four-cylinder produces an octave, six-cylinders an octave plus a fifth, and so on. The reason any of the typical cylinder count engines (3, 4, 5, 6, 8, etc.) sound good is because they all follow the harmonic series, and intervals from the harmonic series happen to be pleasing to the human ear (I have no idea why this is, but it's a very important idea in music theory). My idea as to why five- and ten- cylinder engines sound particularly good is because they're the only engines that fall outside the typical octave, fifth, or combination thereof sounds. Octaves and fifths sound very stable, but thirds offer more character and emotion. In the particular case of the LFA, all of that character was harnessed by way of Yamaha turning the intake and exhaust components into resonance chambers, turning an already distinctive sound into something entirely unique. Side note: nine-cylinder engines also break the octave/fifth pattern, producing a couple octaves and a ninth (i.e. E1 to F#3). There are some examples of radial nine-cylinders on KZread, but a lot of them have propeller wind noise in addition to exhaust noise so it's a little difficult to hear properly.

After listening to both of them Carmudgeon-ing about what the LFA and CGT sounds like, I believe I've got the right words to describe them. The CGT is RAW, the LFA is PURE/PURIFIED. Bonus point here: everytime I've heard a CGT and LFA back to back, even in the same video, the LFA sounds like it's supposed to be waaayyyyyy louder than the CGT, but as it turns out, its the other way around. Reply to this comment and let me know if you have experienced the same thing, and if possible, why so. Thank you so much for the audio inserts. Great episode. I've probably added a few thousand views to it by now. Keep it up, Jason and Clapton. Also, that 8C sounded otherworldly!!

I know the GMA T.50 isn't out yet but that car has one of the most amazing engine sounds I've heard come out of a stock production car yet.

@spongeborgtheford4971

Жыл бұрын

True that

@spongeborgtheford4971

Жыл бұрын

@@grievuspwn4g3 have you not heard the T50 then? I love the TVR, but how do you compare that to a 12000 rpm V12? Closest sound to an old f1 car on the street.

@ducbox572

Жыл бұрын

I've heard it. It sounds synthesized. Big fail.

@kalmmonke5037

Жыл бұрын

see youtube video called ferrari 312T flat 12 in atgs engine simulator

@kalmmonke5037

Жыл бұрын

@@ducbox572 u heard it in person? how do you think of corvette z06 naturally aspirated track pack v8 sound? lexus lc500 v8?

When it comes to V8s, still in love with the GT350R's sound, actually thanks to your Head2Head Episode on it and the Z28. Burble at the bottom end and screaming it's head off at the top end. It's got a bit of everything. Oh, and great episode as always.

@punjabeeplaya

Жыл бұрын

Jason's videos on the gt350 are a big reason why I bought mine

@chrisingram561

Жыл бұрын

I recently had the privilege to go for a rip in a 350. It seemed like it was fighting tooth and nail to hit its 8250 redline....

@Enthusiastlist

Жыл бұрын

GT350 and e92 M3 are the best sounding v8s ever

@coreygolpheneee

Жыл бұрын

The trick is making it sound like two 4 bangers in fight

Re: 4 cylinders. I'm a Honda guy, but I'm shocked that they didn't mention a carbureted Alfa Twin Cam. They don't have that ripping noise like a K series Honda, but there's a musicality to them -- and the induction noise is fantastic!

@benzinapaul7416

Жыл бұрын

I agree, even the injected Alfa Twin Sparks sound awesome, whether its the old Nord engine or the later Fiat derived Twin Sparks

@coreygolphenee9633

Жыл бұрын

and they sound good where 90 percent of new engines don't, from about 800-2500 the sound of an engine picking the pace up is my favorite sound

@iulian2548

Жыл бұрын

@@benzinapaul7416 I had the pleasure to drive a 156 and it sounded great for what it is.

Sooooo, Episode 71? 😇

This was absolutely amazing to watch. Loved every minute of it. Thank you for your input. No doubt the LFA is on another level no other car ever built will ever reach. And I FREAKIN love the Carrera GT. One of my favorite cars ever. But the LFA is a something special that not too many talk about. It's a masterpiece that may never be matched.

@coreygolpheneee

Жыл бұрын

If the LFA had the balsa shifter 6 speed it would be in buisness

I just finished the podcast and was delighted to hear the Miata mentioned when Jason and Derek were explaining how sports cars should work with the driver. Once again, amazing listen and I can't wait for the best sounding drag race. 'Life is too short to drive boring cars.' -The Topher

One of my fave episodes, love any discussion with best engine sounds. Thankfully there are countless amazing engine sounds, unfortunately only some of them exist today.

The NA Fiat 5 pot sounded so good, it was used as a 2 litre 20V in the Coupe/Bravo and as a 2.4 10V in the Marea/Stilo

@KoenigF50

Жыл бұрын

Also in the Lancia kappa/Lybra (the Pratola Serra series)

@brunolavieri6222

Жыл бұрын

There were also a 20v version of the 2.4 for the Marea and Stilo in South America. However, the 2.0 sounded better. I had both, 2.0 and 2.4, and currently drive a 5-cylinder Volvo that doesn't sound as good as the Fiats.

When I saw the title my thought immediately went to when I was a passenger in an Ariel Atom at Laguna Seca. The Honda 2.0L made a pretty hefty intake noise, but then we were passed by a silver Porsche Carrera GT with the V10 at full song. My memory of this glorious moment in time will be with me forever. Also, the F355 with exhaust is my favorite V8...the 12v VR6 is my favorite affordable 6 cylinder sound. The Evora 400 I drove is the best sounding V6 I've ever driven myself. And finally, the S2000 is the best sounding 4 cylinder I've heard personally.

@gordon2zz778

Жыл бұрын

LFA, the 7 Litre Z06, s20, and 2zz my pics. i love this kind of conversations and see people´s diferences in taste

@AndreThompson925

Жыл бұрын

@@gordon2zz778 I bet the LFA is the 🐐 but I was just listing cars ice experienced. The flat plane V8 from the gt350 is also wicked

@cayman9873

Жыл бұрын

Ariel w seats for 2. Thought it only had one seat space

I would have to nominate the F Type SVR (yes I’m biased) and the GT350 (sorry Derek).

4cyl - Lancia Fulvia (V4) 6cyl - Lancia Stratos 8cyl - Ferrari 458 10cyl - Lexus LFA 12cyl - Ferrari 812 Superfast

@Poorschedriver

Жыл бұрын

mmm good list, Stratos and Fulvia are solid choices... V12- Murci V10- LFA V8- Ferrari F355 (sorry Hyphen) V6- Busso I6- 2JZ Flat 6 - 997.2 Porsche GT3RS 4.0 I5 - Audi DAZA 5 Cyl (RS3) I4 - Honda K20 I3 - Honda Beat

Keep them coming. Excited for you guys to get to triple digit episodes.

Murcielago sv was so good! It needs a mention. V8s… e92 m3 and ford voodoo. Alfa 8c was a good call and if race cars are allowed c5r and c6r Pratt and miller engines. Yes. V10 much like the wail of the carrera gt and the lfa, the early gallardos had that wail. So good.

@Poorschedriver

Жыл бұрын

Yes glad someone said it! Murci is iconic.

By the way Jason, for the LS400...try using the ECT transmission shift button for way quicker shifts. I own one in that green also. It’s a huge difference for acceleration.

There is another 5-cylinder car, but just in Europe. The Cupra Formentor was also sold with the Audi 5-cylinder engline.

You need to do a video on the best shifters / manual transmissions ever! I watch so many videos saying "this is one of the best manual transmissions / shifters ever" that the list has to be at least 150 cars / transmissions long at this point, which is bullshit lol. Also, if the LFA was a manual it would've been a serious contender for the greatest car of all time, not* just the greatest sounding car of all time. Great episode, thanks for the awesome content!

Fiat 20VT 5 cylinder engine. OK so fitted in a front heavy car (see ben hur) but that noise and the magic 3rd gear pull. I kept up with a RS4 once, which amazed me.

Another great talk. Listened this after watching Savage Geese on the C8 Z06. Which had a long section on exhaust tuning for sound both inside and outside the car. Engineer was talking about using a center exhaust so they could cancel out some of the four cylinder noise. So I'm now overloaded on car noises.

Ford voodoo V8 with its alternating up down up down crank instead of the standard up down down up, and its headers designed to make it sound more similar to a cross plane lands it right in the sweet spot to my ears. It’s one of my favorites. Especially for V8s.

41:35 a double audio thing happens and hyphen started speaking before he started speaking

Fiat had had a 20 valve 5 cylinder. They put it in the Coupe.

@benzinapaul7416

Жыл бұрын

And a few Lancias too

F355, GT350 and VR6's are definitely in the conversation

The EJ 25 with the unequal length headers is the best sounding 4 imo. Love the GM v8s as well they sound so nice. The LFA is still my all time favorite sound just so a awesome note all the way through.

Jason is becoming a cat lady. I can't wait to share the tire size story with all the soccer moms.😁😂

For 4cylinder sound the Ferrari 500 Mondial is pretty impressive as well

This was a wonderfully geeky episode! Since you recently talked about it extensively, I'm surprised you didn't mention the Beat's 3 cylinder lump. Also, I know you know, but I don't think you mentioned the LFA's connection with Yamaha's musical division in this discussion. Or did I miss it? Finally, for NA 5-cylinder sounds, check out videos on KZread on 2.5l Golfs with a muffler delete. ;)

Just got done rewatching Jason’s video on the Carrera GT only to see a thumbnail featuring it in my feed.

C63 AMG (aspirated one) should get at least a mention in the V8 section.

@nirfz

Жыл бұрын

That's the M156 engine. And i like that sound a lot too!

@gregmayled

Жыл бұрын

Very characterful, but it’s a pretty dirty noise (both good and bad) doesn’t sound particularly pleasant especially outside the car. Not harmonious at all, but it’s just great to have a range of sounds from that sector, the typical V8 of the RS4, motorsport massive intake noise from the M3 and the dirty obscure machine gun rattle of the C63

The best sounding cars ever were Matra’s twelve cylinder Le Mans racers from the 1970s. They sound like a dangerous animal that’s about to eat you for a snack. Gives me chills, literally. PS - please do a Citroen episode!

Such an amazing episode I will have to listen to it again, the sounds clips made the points.

Aston Martin One-77 is incredible to listen to.

Apart from 5 and 10 cyl sounds I am a fan of the M156 Sound. What i missed you mention is how you guys think about the Viper V10. To me it strangely never sounded particularly good for a V10. (dissapointingly) Also strange that you had no mention of any Porsche B6 engines. As for the group B sounds: years ago i bought a compilation DVD of Group B Rallye racing "pure Sound". Had no comentary, only picture inserts of which rallye the parts were from. Glorious to listen to.

You always seem to forget the 5-cyl from Fiat. Both turbo & NA - its a great & great sounding engine. Check out Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo or Stilo Abarth or Bravo HGT Of course it developed into both petrol & diesel versions in various Alfa’s & Lancia’s too.

THANK YOU DEREK. CGTs really do sound like a race-spec-UPS truck at low revs

As far as sound goes, I'm really anxious to hear what Gordon Murray's new T33's V12 sounds like on the road. I'd like to get one and swap out my Vantage's V8.

I think the problem with Carrera GTs is that they are hard because of how fast the revs are dropping. You have to shift extremely fast to keep up with that on the upshift, i've seen so many, even experienced drivers shifting as quickly as they would normally would, which meant that revs would drop to like 1-2k RPM and then increase again to whatever they should be on on specified gear when they lift up their foot - in short, a clutch slip. I don't know if that's to hard to do in this car or those journalists had no basic knowledge of how those wthings work, but they were doing it every time. Edit - ok, Jason mentioned that :)

Best V12 today is the Ferrari 812 Competizione at 9500 rpm. Nothing else like it in production today. However, overall the best one would be Gordon Murray T.50 at 12.500 rpm.

Nice choice Hyphen! I have a CX turbo 2

"it's like Kink...." that made me stop what I was doing 🤣

For me, the Cross-Plane V8 is as good as it gets. A distinctly un-even firing order is its notable feature, of course. There _are_ other configurations in the running -- straight sixes leap to mind -- and sometimes they sound just as good, but the good old C-P V8 can always keep up. More often than not, it sounds better, especially from inside the car.

Jason does the best noises.

@41:30 : Massive issues with audio sync and multiple audio tracks. Paolo! Bad dog!

@NoahBB

Жыл бұрын

Noticed the same!

[Sees title] "How can it take 1 hour to talk about the sound of 5 cars?" [Starts episode] "oh, that's how."

He's right about the Aventador with the back window down. Big difference. Also the induction noise off throttle coming down the rpm is fantastic.

To me, the best engines have a nice balance between induction honk, mechanical noise and exhaust. There's often a shift between harmony and dissonance as you move up the rpm range - a complexity that's got some depth. My complaint against a lot of modern cars is they are all loud exhaust, presumably because you can control the noise. But, that Honda-powered Lotus managed to balance my three favourite sounds!

Great clips. I would watch an episode composed of just clips of wonderful engines being pushed hard

I'm glad to hear the Michelin PS AS4 are doing so well. I'm considering a set for my otherwise stock ND Miata to replace the OEM S001s.

599 GTO has a seriously forgotten engine note. The intake noise of that V12 was just immense and the exhaust noise has so much more range and character than an LFA’s.

@Poorschedriver

Жыл бұрын

Enzo engine if I'm not mistaken?

@gregmayled

Жыл бұрын

@@Poorschedriver yes but completely different sound. Put 6 into 1 headers on a 599 GTB ideally via a full Fiamenghi setup and that creates something quite spectacular. But stock, the GTO is unreal

Im really excited for that best sounding drag race! Im saving up for that new RS3 8Y, would be great to hear Jason's thoughts on it.

As you guys were talking about the CGT one ripped by me! Kind of crazy I get to hear IRL exactly what you were talking about at that moment. I think this is only the second or third time I've seen one in the wild.

One thing that I always noticed re: valve number was the difference in sound between the early 2000s modular Ford V8’s. I wanted the 4v Cobra but the GT sounded SO much better imo. Like a lion with long tubes and an x pipe. That said I’ve always enjoyed the ‘little extra’ ‘more is more’ sound of 5 valves.

"Other great production v8s" has to include the gt350 engine...it is such a unique sound

Also the huracan and R8 v10 is great.

Of them all, the 5.0 Gallardo, driven in anger, might still be my favourite from the outside (or maybe second after the LFA). The CGT is so high pitched, it becomes a little unpleasant to listen to, having only heard one once, driving around a track.

No idea what transmission is in the grand caravan but I had an avenger with the pentastar and the 62TE transmission, I forgot to attach a fitting when replacing a trans cooler and it dumped all the fluid out, went miles down the interstate without me knowing, and I learned in a parking lot when it wouldn't accelerate. This was at 130k miles. I sold it at 150k with the trans still working as intended, but it made a thunk going into reverse, and sometimes shifter a little harder than you'd expect. My best friend owns it now, 185k and still going strong.

Still waiting to hear your thoughts on the 4AGE 20v Blacktop 😢

The e46 had a great (and small) key too. It only needed a tiny battery because it had wireless charging in the ignition.

For the V8s aren't you going to mention those M156 V8 Mercs

Editor MVP this episode

Aventador svj with a gintani f1 exhaust, sounds like an f1 car from the 90’s

@gregmayled

Жыл бұрын

Almost prefer the OF Aventador noise tbf. More guttural and less synthetic. Also builds across the Rev range and is more distinctive, whereas the Gintani is just ear splitting scream and doesn’t have the vocal range of the standard car.

A "sleeper" episode would be a cool episode similar to the Testarossa episode you guys did a while back. Where you said the Ferrari looks like an absolute beast but drives like "a 180 mph sofa". So focus on cars that look like they'd be slow or not fun to drive or something similar but are actually a blast to drive or remarkably capable at being a gt car stuff like that.

Taking the RS3's soft limiter's should be the first modification.

Throughout the first half I thought It's the Carrera GT, then when you talked about the cleanliness and harmonies of the LFA, I thought that was it... But I dunno. Which one do you think is the better sounding one, then?

Jason was trying to make an argument for the Carrera GT sound on the outside and I think deep down he does like it better. Sadly never heard neither in person however from videos CGT does sound higher pitched and more raw on quick revs and run by's. I prefer that actually. From the inside, however, there's no comparison there. LFA is miles ahead.

My favorite v6 was the VW R32 MKiV/V with the valve open.

@TheCarmudgeonShow

Жыл бұрын

That's not a V6, it's a VR6! Different configuration, and it sounds better than most V6s!

@StockySnail

Жыл бұрын

@@TheCarmudgeonShow ok so I left out the letter R 🤷🤣

He meant a 3rd (major actually) not a 5th, best explanation for a 5 cylinder engine sound I’ve ever heard though.

If I was to add a few, I'd add 4AGE, 3SGTE, M113 V8 & M120/M275 V12 (in Zonda/Huayra)

Best V12 Ferrari 365GTC/4 at idle, but the 365GTB/4 sounds better once above 4000rpm.

Surprised at the CGT being number two. Haven’t heard one in person yet (or any of those featured) but I never found it particularly desirable

I am very late to the comments, but the Lexus LFA V10 and the Lexus LC500 V8 are angelic

We need photos of the van please! Also whenever you drag race cars have the van chasing behind them. Never to catch anything. Well the van was there after I posted this! Nice cat.

Talking about CGT, if you haven’t already, go watch Jason’s spotlight episode on this!

20:38 I wanna hear more about the driving of that van in that shot! Holy shit!

Where’s the new episode Jason-? I’m having withdrawn syndrome here.

I can't believe it, I finally disagree with you guys about something (slightly). While I will contend that the LFA (and to a lesser degree) the CGT are in my top 5, I would not place them at the top of the best sounding car (or engine) of all time. IMO that honor solely goes to the Lamborghini Murcielago, which was the last vehicle to carry the Bizzarrini V12 (which the Aventatdor does not have and it sounds like a buzzsaw by comparison). The Murci creates a harmonious howling that sounds like pure emotion. See examples: kzread.info/dash/bejne/q4Gkz9uoXbufaZc.html kzread.info/dash/bejne/pGehr7qipaybm5c.html Second I would say the Colombo V12 found in the Ferrari 250GTO. You could technically argue that it's a race car, and not a road car, but they are homologation cars so I think it flies. As such, it offers a raw, mechanical howl with buzzing vibrations; all things that sound unique and stimulating. kzread.info/dash/bejne/fXybppKweqrJgpM.html After those 2 then yes I'd say the LFA, then CGT. I also think it's best to choose one car (or engine) from each cylinder configuration because they all have their own personality and merit. V12- Murci V10- LFA V8- Ferrari F355 (sorry Hyphen) V6- Busso I6- 2JZ Flat 6 - 997.2 Porsche GT3RS 4.0 I5 - Audi DAZA 5 Cyl (RS3) I4 - Honda K20 I3 - Honda Beat Also, Jason "I hate turbos" wearing a blow me shirt with a turbo on it 🤣

When speaking about the CGT bank angle do you mean offset wrist pin and not crank pin? I am confused.

Acura 2.5 TL from the 90s had a straight 5 cylinder NA and manual.

I wonder if something is wrong with me, as I don't find V10s to sound as good as V12. I'd take the sound of most of the Zonda variants (even though the Zondas don't rev high, they sound like they do) or a Murcielago over an LFA, as the LFA sounds kind of one-dimensional in comparison, getting progressively louder but not really having separate stages at different revs. The post-F12 Ferrari V12s sound overtuned though, it's like they've emphasized the 'trumpet/elephant' sound over everything else, and they no longer seem to have any connection to race car V12s like the Ferrari FXX, 333 SP etc... maybe they sound different in person than a recording though.

It seems almost criminal not to mention Pagani in a discussion of automotive sound.

1:00:19 "First digital gauge cluster?" Aston Martin Lagonda 1976.

Plot Twist: The pianist built into the LFA is actually Mark Levinson himself.

Since we're on the topic, I just wanna make sure y'all have seen this at least once. kzread.info/dash/bejne/c5hlutKhgbjQYbQ.html Exhaust is not stock obviously

@TheCarmudgeonShow

Жыл бұрын

Oh. My. GOD.

As someone who got the AS4's for my FR-S, I appreciate this story on the Caravan. They grip so incredibly well, and break away so progressively I'm never scared. I HATE the original Primacy's on the FRS/BRZ/86. That they continued with those shit eco tires on the second gen boggles my mind... lateral grip is low, and breakaway is blink-your-eyes-and-you'll-miss-it quick, so much that it makes the car more intimidating than it ever should be.

Carrera GT, LFA, every 911 GT3 since the 996.II, McLaren F1, Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale is my top 5. If you're not a multi-millionaire get a Ford Modular V8. Honorable mention to the BMW S54 but it needs the right intake/exhaust combo, factory it was often a bit tinny in most applications.

This mystical Paulo should be a “guest” on the show

There’s sort of a cult on NA 5cylinders Jettas here in Brasil, as we don’t get a lot of non-4cyl engines…

What about a flat 12? When I was growing up my friend's dad drove a 512M, what a noise!

I think a separate conversation should be had about best sounding and performant vehicles under X price point. a TVR Tuscan Speed 6 being $100k and nearing import age still leaves it being difficult to acquire for enthusiasts. I think that makes straight 6, v6, 4 and 5 cylinder cars under... i dunno, 50k? 40k? a more constrained and difficult conversation that can have a lot of back and forth and debate between you two. I think that conversation would have to at least touch on two cars: of course the VR6 Golf, and an aftermarket exhaust equipped toyota camry (the potential of said engine being exhibited by Lotus)

Wheres the love for the Zonda?? Top 3 of best sounding cars

someone with too much money should find a way to manual swap an LFA 😁

I am surprised you guys didn't get Anthony to join you on this discussion

Let’s not forget that Yamaha made the LFA engine…the same Yamaha that makes musical instruments. Love all the five and V10 sounds, brings back 90´s F1 memories 😌

@PigglyWigglyDeluxe

Жыл бұрын

The same department too if I remember correctly. The same people who designed pianos and guitars designed the exhaust. Not just the same company, the same individual team of people.

Gotta have the Nissan rb26 in the inline 6 category that motor is pure symphony

Hell yeah LS400 is legend

First gen Legacy Rs sounds perfect

Go listen to the episode of Jay Leon’s Garage with his Honda S800 with the roller bearing crank. Wow. It’s in my top 3.