The bit about "the Bible doesn't grant you salvation but leads you TO salvation" is so so good! I've tried to have this conversation with relatives who are still "in" the Meeting system. They always say "I just need to read more, I need to read more..." And I finally said "reading your Bible doesn't save you, Jesus does." But the blank stare I got in return was so sad! But Oh well, I will keep trying with gentle conversations

This was very well presented and easy to understand! I remember the moment I had the revelation that Jesus was God! It took awhile but all of a sudden in a moment I was in absolute AWE! I remember first hearing the gospel of grace from Ray Comfort from Living Waters and was in total shock that I had never heard the gospel! And then when he said that Jesus was God come down, I had such a hard time believing that right away. There was a disconnect for awhile. It was very interesting! But God was so patient with me 💞

Great job David. The mystery can't be comprehended by human reason, the best we can do is trust all that we read. When we read things that show Jesus was man, believe them. When we read that Jesus is God, believe them. When we see scripture from the Old Testament that is talking about the Lord then brought into the New Testament and applied to Jesus, believe them. Col 2:2 ...that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ Himself...

Jesus said "I am" before abraham, that is him claiming to be God.

@davidalink

3 ай бұрын

Yes in John 8 it was clear to all Jesus was telling them he was God. That is a great study to find the Great "I AM" in the Old Testament!

@janeencovlin1563

3 ай бұрын

That is saying he ‘existed’ before Abraham.

@marjoleinesaman

3 ай бұрын

​@@janeencovlin1563then he would have said, 'I was'. He said,' before Abraham was, I Am.' a clear pointing to Exodus 3

I had this same conversation with the workers because of John 1, a verse that always weighed on my heart... nobody could answer this verse because they weren't being truthful with themself. Most continue to deny Jesus. I spoke with Barb Hofer and she does believe that Jesus is God made flesh, same as you and i believe, that there is one God in 3 separate persons. But when i started questioning her more and voicing that i was worried for my parents and that i couldn't truly have fellowship with those who aren't giving Jesus his rightful place, she wrote me a letter telling me to not forsake the fellowship and to obey my parents. Her letter felt pretty harsh to me. Mind you, i was a married woman, and she was telling me to obey my parents.

@Our_Hive_of_Five

Ай бұрын

Barb said some people believe it and some don't. I was shocked because i had just been revealed it, and i disagreed, I told her that I felt I was the only one who did believed like that. It was very strange. I asked my dad once why we worship Jesus on Sunday when God says thou shalt sent no other goods before me... he said they didn't.... I pointed out all of the verses, and of course in his heart he knows. There are several verses that literally say people fell and worshipped him. Of course, because of none other than that he is God! & he is GOOD! It's mind blowing. People get so comfortable in the way they've made for themselves, that they get scared of the truth. No care to even humble themselves. It's deveststing, so many I love who go to meetings, so many nice and sweet people, but at the same time sickening and maddening all the false prophets leading people astray, straight up turning a blind eye to the things they can't answer.

1 Timothy 3:16 Context 16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Glad I found your channel. I was raised in this with my family going back in it to the 1920’s. What do you do for fellowship after leaving? Is anything more required than what is recorded in Acts 16:31?

Downplaying or denying Christ's deity has the effect of keeping people fearful and striving in the hope of keeping people "in line." We are led to believe that we have to save ourselves with good works.

Revelation 10:9 The word on paper will not save and will only turn bitter when it won’t. Jesus, The Messiah, is The Way. Without Him, you can not see the Father. He lives within our temples. Hallelujah!!!

Excellent scriptures to prove the divinity of Christ. As a former Jehovah's Witness it always strikes me the similarities of groups who deny the divinity of Christ that came out of the 19th century. There's a lot of similar language between the Witnesses and the group you grew up in.

@davidalink

Ай бұрын

Yes there is the common thread of legalism and denying Christ's deity!

Wonderful insight David. But I can't get the idea of what Leo meant by a 'fringe benefit'. It could have most likely been a cringe moment for me.

If anyone is firmly convinced on an ecumenical creed developed 300+ years after the life of Jesus by what became the Catholic church, nothing I say will change your mind. So, what I'm going to share here is not for the benefit of Trinitarian believers (in other words, you cannot convince me to become Trinitarian, and I clearly won't convince you that Trinitarianism is false and heretical). But for any who are wondering about the nonsensical nature of the Trinity and have questions, here's what I'd say: Once again, I've been trying to understand why people are so enamored with the Trinity doctrine, and I think I might have come across a quote that points to a major factor: "Upon reflection, we discover that the Trinity is the highest revelation God has made of Himself to his people. It is the capstone, the summit, the brightest star in the firmament of divine truths" Coupled with this, here is a really clever piece of work by the Catholic Church, who in their Anasthesian creed stated: (I'll paraphrase for brevity) "we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; ... and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped ... This is the Catholic faith which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved" So, this appeals to two parts of human nature: self-righteous ego (I've received the highest revelation from God, my salvation is secure) and fear (believe this or you're bound for hell) Thing is, Jesus never said this. If you understood the political undertones that accompanied the development of what is now the Trinity doctrine, you'd see how it became a corruption of Christianity. In 381 AD, at the council of Constantinople, it was described as "The Christian state religion was crowned by the dogma of the Trinity." These "ecumenical councils" changed the face of Christianity to not even remotely appear like the Christianity of the New Testament. Now you've got bishops and emperors and a hierarchy and power dynamic, where these men handed down dogmas to be accepted as doctrine. No longer were all men equal before God, now some men became "more equal" and power brokers. Hence the need to coerce people by threat of force and eternal damnation to accept a heretical creed that Jesus NEVER taught. Catholics, Orthodox, and other Protestants accept the dogma of the Trinity as central to the Christian religion, yet the most eminent Trinitarian scholars and apologists acknowledge that it is an inscrutable mystery beyond man's comprehension. So, to deny the Trinity makes one a heretic, yet it is so mysterious as not to be understood, and this becomes the grounds for someone's faith. Yet, the very simple question is: "How is it possible that "The Church" would officially confess that which the very author of its faith has nowhere formally professed?" If God's nature is truly that of a trinity, and if our salvation depends on acceptance of this 'fact', why didn't God communicate this to us in such a way that there would be zero possibility of mistaking it? There is not even ONE expression in the bible clearly stating that "God" is composed of 3 distinct persons. How can the average, ordinary Christian be expected to give ANY sort of definition of the trinity based on the Bible, when the Bible NEVER presents us with one. This doctrine is intended to force people to have to rely on and trust professionally trained theologians, who dogmatically define what GOD never expressed openly in the scriptures, and then have the gall to make this the standard by which someone's "Christian Faith" is based on. It is a corruption from the simple gospel of truth that Jesus taught, to further the power of a political empire over its subjects. Trinitarian apologists and scholars will use unscriptural terms such as "Trinity" and "Triune God" and "Trinity in Unity", "coequal", "coeternal" etc to convince you that they have higher authority and revelation, when in fact the gospel message that was so simple that Jesus THANKED God, his FATHER for hiding it from the "wise and prudent" and "revealed it unto babes" (ie, it is simple enough for a child to understand). We do not need to twist ourselves into theological and philosophical pretzels trying to confuse what the scriptures make ABUNDANTLY CLEAR in PLAIN LANGUAGE: "To us, there is one God, the Father, from who are all things, and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist" Paul wrote, in perfect harmony, with the words of Jesus in John 17:3, that there is ONE GOD, and that is THE FATHER. Peter, when receiving the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost declared "God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both LORD and MESSIAH" Jesus RAILED against religious hypocrisy and trying to use religion to wield power over others. The Pharisees used robes, lengthy prayers, and the perception of being spiritually wise to elevate themselves in status above others. Perhaps Paul's words could apply here as well: "Professing to be wise, they became fools" (Fitting that it was in his letter to the Romans, from which eventually arose the Roman Catholic Church, from which the Trinity Doctrine was born) Did Jesus preach an incomprehensible mystery? Or did he preach a simple gospel for all to understand?

@dennistheapprentice

3 ай бұрын

And a belief that Jesus is not God the father himself doesn't by any means mean that a 2x2 ministry or meeting in homes adds any righteousness to anything.

@BTBA_podcast

3 ай бұрын

@@dennistheapprentice I agree

@davidalink

3 ай бұрын

@dennistheapprentice I responded to the other comment but it sounds like you didn't grow up in the group? The group believes Jesus is just a man that left us an example to live by, oh and he died on the cross for sins, but only if you add works like meeting in homes and a 2x2 ministry.

The very early church fathers defined the trinity in the first several hundred years as the body of Christ grew and the early martyrs

Jesus also said that he and his father would come and make their abode with us. It is in fact more than we can comprehend without revelation. Best to stay in the way with Jesus.

I agree with you that there have been many doctrinally unsound things spoken by workers. You highlighted some appalling examples, and I appreciate you bringing these to light. Respectfully, I disagree with your assertion that Jesus is God, but I think you hit on one major reason why the trinity doctrine is so attractive, when you said "Jesus could not sin, he did not have a sinful nature" How is it that Jesus could be an advocate to God, the Father, as our Great High Priest, sitting at the right hand of God, except that he experienced what it is like to have a human nature that could be tempted? HEB 4 v 15 "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." What was the point of Jesus being tempted by Satan, after being brought to the point of absolute human weakness in the wilderness? Was that all for show, because it was impossible to sin? Or was it that he had to feel the utmost of human suffering and demonstrate that, by the power of God the Father, it was possible to overcome the devil and temptation? Many verses establish the Father as the one and only God. No Bible verse includes Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit within the definition of one God. Jesus called the Father, “the only God” (John 5:44), “the one true God” (John 17:3), “God alone” (Mark 10:18), and “the Lord our God, the Lord is one” (Mark 12:29). God is “GOD,” he doesn’t have a Father. Paul believed that Jesus had a Father who was God Himself: “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus” (Romans 15:6), “the God and Father of the Lord Jesus” (2 Corinthians 1:3), “The God and Father of the Lord Jesus” (11:31), “God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Colossians 1:3), “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Ephesians 1:3). Peter believed this also, “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!” (1 Peter 1:3). God the Father is “GOD” in the absolute sense throughout the entire Bible. Jesus was/is subordinate to God. He called God, “my Father and your Father, to my God and your God” (John 20:17). John the Apostle, speaking of Jesus said, “and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father” (Revelation 1:6). Jesus called the Father, “my God” (Revelation 3:12). Mat 28:18 "Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."" In order for authority to be given, there is a supreme giver of authority, that being God, The Father. Since Jesus, Paul, Peter and John believed that Jesus had a God, so should we. I believe the other appeal of the trinity doctrine to be either "It's an incomprehensible mystery", which is perhaps a desire to be absolved of personal responsibility, or that it's some kind of higher-level spiritual understanding that indicates a special revelation from God, being privy to some form of special knowledge. (That is just me speculating) Jesus, himself, when praying to God, thanked God for keeping things hidden from "the wise and prudent" and "revealing them unto babes", that is to say, Jesus' fundamental teachings are simple enough to be understood by a child, not some distant incomprehensible mystery. I agree that the trinity doctrine is basically an incomprehensible mystery, which is why I do not believe it to be of God. It is so simple to understand Jesus, the Divine (Of Godlike substance) SON of God, sitting at the right hand of God, indicating that God the Father is supreme over all. (Isaiah 9:6 is often mistranslated to support the Trinity doctrine, but for the sake of brevity, I won't go into detail here, because I don't feel that splitting hairs over words is really truly edifying.) Jesus, the advocate, understands what it means to have a human nature because he lived on earth as a human and could enter into our human suffering and experience. I believe this is why Jesus repeatedly called himself "the son of man" to indicate his humanness. What I find to be a mystery is why so many Christians want to reject this simple, clear picture for an incomprehensible mystery?

@davidalink

3 ай бұрын

Hey! We are at a conference for a few days but when I get a chance to read through your comment I will respond. But I’ll just mention this quick, John 1 is extremely clear on Jesus being God. (Not Jesus being the Father) in fact it says “the word is God… and the word became flesh and dwelt amongst us” it’s doesn’t get much clearer then that but I will read through your comment and respond!

@dennistheapprentice

3 ай бұрын

I'm looking forward to your response as well as this comment question mirrors my thoughts and concerns as well. Who is Jesus an advocate between? Wouldn't he advocate to His father on our behalf? Now that He came and took on a human nature...he understands us and our situation like never before. Of course He is of Divine and all things were created through Him but it sure seems He wants us to understand the Father /Son relationship. He even declared that He didn't know when He would come again but only the Father knows that. And I am not striving to be perfect to attain anything...I have it all ready because of His death on the cross. I'm glad to understand differently but Jesus seemed to want me to look to the Father and pray to the Father. All of that and I love what you are up to! Thank you for your efforts.

@davidalink

3 ай бұрын

Hey! Ok first of all, I'm not sure if you or @dennistheapprentice grew up in "the truth" (2x2s) or if you came across this video without context but ultimately that doesn't really matter when it comes to my answer. I don't believe that Jesus is God because someone told me that, or some creed. I believe that Jesus is God because the Bible so clearly states it... over and over. I won't give you all the texts but I will give you a couple: John 1. It clearly and directly states Jesus is God. (The Word is God... the Word became flesh) 1 John 5:7: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

@brendaharrison2425

3 ай бұрын

Thanks Johnathan!! My thoughts as well...

@BTBA_podcast

3 ай бұрын

@@brendaharrison2425 Hey! You bet, good to hear from you 😁

The blind leading the blind.

They' all workers don't express the scripture exactly the same?

Еgg is a good example, butfor me a true word is bettr representation. Person uttering it is Father, air that allows it to be formed and heard, transformed air is Spirit and its meaning is Son, of course. All of the elements are distinctive yet each of them represents the whole perfectly.

Why did Satan bother tempting Jesus in Mathew 4?

Wow! False doctrine much?! So sad how many are deceived.

@elidyson256

3 ай бұрын

Everyone has been deceived except for those who believe in Jesus Christ the son of Lord. Trinity!

There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; BOTH MADE AND UNMADE; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first passible and then impassible - even Jesus Christ our Lord. The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians

In the beginning the Word was with God and the Word was God. How can that be? Think about a father and son in a family. Such as it is with The God Family. Jesus was there from the beginning and will be there at the end. Alpha and Omega.

How can Jesus be God if Jesus was God's son?🤔

@davidalink

3 ай бұрын

The Father is God, Jesus is God, The Holy Spirit is God. The Father is not Jesus or the Holy Spirit. Jesus is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the father or Jesus. Did you get a chance to watch the whole video yet?

@sharinnature

3 ай бұрын

@@davidalink actually I commented as soon as you said that then had to pause for dinner but will listen to the end.I may not always comment but I always listen to your videos.They are calming and respectfully done👍🙏

@vadymrud4462

3 ай бұрын

When you say to your mam "I love you, mama!" And you mean it, What is the difference between you and your words at that moment? None. And yet you are flesh and words are stressed air.

@janeencovlin1563

3 ай бұрын

We are all sons and daughters of God, like Jesus said he was as well. Jesus considers us brothers and sisters. God is with in us all. We are all connected, like individual cells in One Body. Or Leaves of one tree.

@sharinnature

3 ай бұрын

@@janeencovlin1563 yes.....Jesus and we are sons and daughters of God but none of us " are " God ...God is God and Jesus is Jesus 🤷

I'll stick to the simple logical truth, Jesus the only begotten son of God. Few Christians even learn the history of the trinity, but just hold onto their traditions. The big Poop of the Roman Catholic Church declared prior to their deadly crusades that Jesus was God and that God now had a mother, Mary. And IF you did NOT agree with Mary being God's mother - a Ma-gog, then OFF with your head. Hence the great trinity movement. believe the RCC or lose your head... Not too much has changed. . . If Jesus is God then God has a mother and the whole world knows -'Don't mess with Mama'... Please study out Who is the Ma-gog in Scripture? I'm not interested in debating this ancient lie; everyone must search for the Truth themselves. . . ONLY then can God reveal it to them. Blessings to all those who seek Truth, you will find Him.

What if the OT god is not the one that Jesus was in unity with… Yahweh was a psychopathic murder and liar, and Jesus was truly the opposite. He actually points this out in many scriptures. John 8:44

@davidalink

3 ай бұрын

That verse is talking about the devil, not God.

@KaiGallagher7

3 ай бұрын

ya no gnostic