The Waterloo Battlefield: What is still there to see?

The Battle of Waterloo is without a doubt one of the most famous battles of all times. The old-fashioned battle between Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington still appeals to the imagination of people of all ages all around the world. But what is still there today to see of the Battle of Waterloo? What can you visit? Is it worth it to make the trip from Brussels? Are there still remnants of the actual battlefield?
Join me on a walk of the Waterloo Battlefields Today to prepare for your trip or to see the reminders of the Battle of Waterloo from behind your screen. In Part I of this virtual Waterloo Battlefield tour, we’ll explore 3 different kinds of panoramas of the battlefield: the view from the Lion’s Mound (Butte du Lion, the Lion of Waterloo), the impressive historical Panorama at the 1815 site and the viewpoint from Napoleon’s perspective. Subscribe for updates on Part II of this Waterloo Battlefield tour (with Hougoumont Farm, La Haie Sainte, Plancenoit etc) and for other videos on the history of Belgium.
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Пікірлер: 124

  • @judgeroybean6930
    @judgeroybean6930 Жыл бұрын

    The Prussians really saved the day Natalie. The importance of their part in this battle cannot be over-stressed.

  • @dulls8475

    @dulls8475

    Жыл бұрын

    Wellington and his troops thought all day......

  • @michellekinder3051

    @michellekinder3051

    6 ай бұрын

    I believe that every army was important to get rid of that monster.

  • @cantyoms

    @cantyoms

    3 ай бұрын

    @@michellekinder3051 what do you mean monster? he asked for peace and they rejected peace entirely, they are the monsters! also he thought the best defending option for him was attacking

  • @nighthawkdutchchameleon9815

    @nighthawkdutchchameleon9815

    Ай бұрын

    Read book Wellingtons hidden heroes. It was the Dutch that actually stopped the Imperial guard with a bayonet attack.

  • @johnparker4538
    @johnparker4538 Жыл бұрын

    Wonderful video. Thank you. I went there about twenty years and climbed the hill. It gives a good view, but unfortunately the construction of it badly altered the original landscape, in particular you no longer get the feel for how steep and raised the forward slope was, so crucial and one of the main reasons Wellington chose the site.

  • @JohnSilver-un8qy

    @JohnSilver-un8qy

    Жыл бұрын

    I understand that the hill was built by the Prince of Orange. When Wellington found out he was furious.

  • @tigerwarsaw99

    @tigerwarsaw99

    3 ай бұрын

    Wow it's so beautiful.

  • @paulblois7194
    @paulblois7194 Жыл бұрын

    Thanks for this video - I must visit Waterloo one day

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    You should! It's really worth it.

  • @rainmaker6261
    @rainmaker62617 ай бұрын

    Reading waterloo by Bernard cornwell right now and this video is an excellent accompaniment. You did an awesome job of showing all of the most important landmarks and locations.

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    6 ай бұрын

    Thank you!

  • @matthewcharles5867
    @matthewcharles5867 Жыл бұрын

    Great video gives you a good idea of how many men were packed into that small battlefeild.

  • @Ap-cm7mx
    @Ap-cm7mx2 ай бұрын

    I will visit the battlefield soon and this great video will give me an idea where to look. Many thanks!!

  • @kamrandogar-7588
    @kamrandogar-7588 Жыл бұрын

    i m from Pakistan and today i study about waterloo and that time i want to visit place so i searched your video thank u😁

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    You’re very welcome!

  • @kamrandogar-7588

    @kamrandogar-7588

    Жыл бұрын

    really can i visit there?

  • @danrooc
    @danrooc10 ай бұрын

    Great video! This is the first time I can see so many resounding places around the famous battlefield. Your depiction is also a ticket to History.

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    7 ай бұрын

    Glad you enjoyed!

  • @marklivingstone3710
    @marklivingstone3710 Жыл бұрын

    Thank you Natalie, great job. Bought back many memories of my visit there. I appreciate you taking the time to do the post. ❤

  • @julianpalmer4886
    @julianpalmer4886 Жыл бұрын

    Such magnificent views of modern day Walloonia, presented by a charming Mother with boy. The British & Low Country troops were honoured by their professional appraisal.

  • @davidbraithwaite704
    @davidbraithwaite704 Жыл бұрын

    Wow, merci for all the steps..😮.definitely puts the battlefield in perspective 😊 The topography and ridges were 'tres, tres' important to shield from sight and cannon (and why Wellington chose to fight here!). Love your passion🤗 Moi aussi would love to visit.

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    Haha, well I guess it's a good form of exercise, climbing the Lion's Mound! It's a very interesting place to visit and there's much more to see and do than most people realize. I hope you can make it one day!

  • @oddposty
    @oddposty4 ай бұрын

    Now that I have gotten really intrigued with the Napoleonic Era recently thanks to the 1970 movie 'Waterloo', this is definitely a location I would like to visit someday!

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    4 ай бұрын

    Glad you enjoyed it! Yes, it's worth a full-day visit!

  • @duanegregg6222
    @duanegregg62225 ай бұрын

    I probably will not have the opportunity to see this in real life but this is the next best thing 👍🏼. You answered some of my questions and did a great job!!! Your voice is great and easy to understand. Thank you very much 😁.

  • @harrisonj0679
    @harrisonj0679 Жыл бұрын

    Man will always find the loveliest places to slaughter each other

  • @The_Dodge_Meister

    @The_Dodge_Meister

    Жыл бұрын

    Strategic but i still like your comment because its too true sadly

  • @daniellastuart3145
    @daniellastuart3145 Жыл бұрын

    went there in 2015 would love to go back for a longer stay

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    Good idea, you could walk the battlefields to really have a good feel for the area.

  • @jackdarren9210
    @jackdarren9210 Жыл бұрын

    Greetings from Alabama USA. I enjoy your videos. Thanks.

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    Thank you! I enjoy making them. Thanks for watching

  • @kenskinner6948
    @kenskinner6948 Жыл бұрын

    Fantastic presentation. Thank you.

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.

  • @columbmurray
    @columbmurray4 ай бұрын

    According to Halevy , celebrated French historian writing in 1816, 33 000 french casualties in one day , and 30 000 British. ( The poverty of medicine then meant most would die.)The local peasants stripped the dead and dying at night , the British were too exhausted to prevent it.

  • @columbmurray

    @columbmurray

    4 ай бұрын

    Sorry ,not one day.

  • @peterdoig1557
    @peterdoig15579 ай бұрын

    Great video. Best views yet of the battlefield. Thankyou!

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    7 ай бұрын

    Much appreciated!

  • @bobapbob5812
    @bobapbob5812 Жыл бұрын

    I took my son when he was 6. He saw the diarama of the French cavalry and the British square. He asked “who are the good guys?”

  • @serfranke5744
    @serfranke5744 Жыл бұрын

    What a wonderful video. I have been to Waterloo around 20 years ago and I hope I can go there again in the future.

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    You should! The facilities have improved a lot. It's more authentic nowadays than 20 years ago

  • @Romartus
    @Romartus Жыл бұрын

    Thanks for making this video. I went to this battlefield on a very rainy day. The Lion mount was worth climbing up. Just couldn't see anything, unlike the sunny day you shot your videos.

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    It was my pleasure to make this video. It was really a very sunny day, great day to film or take photos. But with the rain it also has its charm. It's a very impressive place no matter the weather. Thanks for watching!

  • @lucazanzottera1316
    @lucazanzottera1316Ай бұрын

    Very nice and explanatory video , thank you!! 👍

  • @erikschultz7166
    @erikschultz7166 Жыл бұрын

    Was at Waterloo in 1995 and 2015. The event in 2015 even allowed a walkthrough of the courtyard of Le Haye Sainte. Great memories.

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    Oh wow, that’s nice!

  • @bikenavbm1229
    @bikenavbm122911 ай бұрын

    a bit more there than I imagined more familiar with WW1 and 2 myself, this little view has created an interest next time I am near I will aim to visit , thank you from a motorbiker from Wales.

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    7 ай бұрын

    You should definitely visit, you won’t regret it!

  • @lllordllloyd
    @lllordllloyd Жыл бұрын

    Thank you!

  • @stewartmackay
    @stewartmackay Жыл бұрын

    Very interesting, thank you.

  • @_renaissance.girl_
    @_renaissance.girl_10 ай бұрын

    It's all very interesting. Thank you for sharing with us ^^ 💕

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    7 ай бұрын

    My pleasure 😊

  • @jamesalexander5623
    @jamesalexander5623 Жыл бұрын

    Been to Waterloo back in 1977 when I was stationed in England in the USAF, at RAF Upper Heyford near Oxford. I lived in Oxford from '77 to '86. I traveled to as many Historic places as I could!

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    If you get the chance to come back, definitely do so! Waterloo site looks very different now. In a good way, more authentic than before

  • @bwoodworth8739
    @bwoodworth87397 ай бұрын

    Thank you for showing the Waterloo painting i’ve never seen it as a whole. I have seen in person the Gettysburg painting here in the US, the same concept.

  • @willsherman1049
    @willsherman10492 ай бұрын

    The judgment used is a reflection of the times. From the moment the words were uttered "le garde recoile", the battle was lost for Napoleon. Fear, fatigue, uncertainty amongst french senior commanders, all contributed to the collapse. The prussians were an annoyance that Napoleon could have dealt with if le garde had been successful and broken the british line.

  • @goatcottageslawa8873
    @goatcottageslawa887321 күн бұрын

    Technically it was a European war and history but most of the commanders and artillery officers of the French army after the battle of Waterloo came to our region Punjab (Pakistan / India) and few other regions of Indian and employed by the Nawabs and Rajas or Princely States of Pakistan and India to train their local army against East Indian Company's British Raj Army as being technologically advance and much more modern . We have a big tomb (in our Lahore city) in which buried one of the Napoleon Army general but serving the Sikh Raja Maharaja Ranjeet Singh at that time. He was also the governor of the region with HQ in Peshawar (Pakistan Afghanistan Boarder) and use to hang 10 Afridi tribesmen before breakfast to keep the law and order in the city . Anyway it was a great video as Waterloo has some historical link with us also and love to see the actual battle site IA someday will visit also . Thanks for sharing

  • @Ap-cm7mx

    @Ap-cm7mx

    16 күн бұрын

    Thank you for this interesting information!

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    10 күн бұрын

    Thank you! Very interesting!

  • @garymullins7949
    @garymullins7949 Жыл бұрын

    A wonderful video and very educational

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    Thank you!

  • @binflynn1
    @binflynn15 ай бұрын

    I was there in the summer it was fantastic brilliant indeed if you like your history

  • @keithfarrell3370
    @keithfarrell3370 Жыл бұрын

    Thank you

  • @rgwholt
    @rgwholt Жыл бұрын

    The Lion Mound altered the battlefield greatly ...... As a tribute to a likeable but rather inept young man promoted to a position way beyond his intelligence, and command capabilities .

  • @chollocks

    @chollocks

    Жыл бұрын

    Sharpe didn't like him.

  • @MarcoTheHague

    @MarcoTheHague

    2 ай бұрын

    What youre insane. Stop believing in british propaganda bro 😂

  • @lampa298
    @lampa2987 ай бұрын

    Che bello

  • @user-pe3mc4wj1b
    @user-pe3mc4wj1bАй бұрын

    Actually some pieces of the battlefield were on the territory of Waterloo, e.g. the Hougoumont and Mont-Saint-Jean farmhouses.

  • @robnewman6101
    @robnewman610110 ай бұрын

    Last year for my 32 Birthday, my parents and I went to The City of London to visit Apsley House. The Home once of Sir Arthur Wellesley His Grace The 1st Duke of Wellington. This year we're visiting Wellington Arch & the Guards Museum at Wellington Barracks in London. For my 33 Birthday.

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    7 ай бұрын

    That’s a great birthday activity for a history fan!

  • @alexanderleach3365
    @alexanderleach3365 Жыл бұрын

    IT is an amazing battlefield.

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    It is!

  • @moobaz8675
    @moobaz8675 Жыл бұрын

    Very good. I've always wanted to visit Waterloo. One comment, you might want to get a longer selfie stick. 👍

  • @davidfinch7407
    @davidfinch7407 Жыл бұрын

    I visited way back in 1991 with my wife and very young son, he climbed those stairs at two years of age. There was a rumor that an ancestor of mine rode with the British cavalry in the battle and wielded a jeweled saber, but I could never confirm his presence. If anyone knows of any lists of British Cavalry at Waterloo, please let me know. As for the mound, I have a love/hate relationship with it. It's magnificent and provides a great view of the battlefield, but greatly damages the view of the battlefield. I live near Gettysburg PA, and for many years they had something similar with a huge tower stuck in the middle of the battlefield; they eventually had the good sense to tear it down.

  • @TheSpritz0

    @TheSpritz0

    Жыл бұрын

    1st and 2nd Life Guards, Royal Horse Guards, 1st King’ Dragoon Guards, 1st Royal Dragoons, 2nd Dragoons Royal Scots Greys, 6th (Inniskilling) Dragoons, 7th Queen’s Own Hussars, 10th Prince of Wales’s Own Royal Hussars, 11th Light Dragoons, 12th Light Dragoons, 13th Light Dragoons, 15th Hussars, 16th Light Dragoons, 18th Hussars

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    Yes I agree on the Mound. Great view but it would be more authentic without. It’s also incredible how well small kids can do all those steps so easily. I’m quite sure they have lists like that, there are many researchers working on the Waterloo Battle. Best bet would be in England rather than Waterloo itself, though.

  • @Rusty_Gold85

    @Rusty_Gold85

    Жыл бұрын

    When on the internet , use the internet to solve other questions : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_battle_of_the_Waterloo_campaign#Cavalry_Corps

  • @MStafford-lr9le

    @MStafford-lr9le

    Жыл бұрын

    The National Tower in Gettysburg was an eyesore, but it was just a tower, it came down in a day or two. This is worse in some ways - no one is removing a 40-meter-high earthen mound in a day or two, that sucker is pretty much permanent.

  • @eze8970
    @eze8970 Жыл бұрын

    Thank you. Well presented. Sound ok, but as you've said, better equipment would help the distance views. Look forward to the next one. Hope you & your son enjoyed the day! 🙏🙏

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    Thanks! Working in editing the next one

  • @reduxmod9178
    @reduxmod91782 ай бұрын

    I'm interested to know if you have ever happened upon any materials from the Battle itself ? Such as a button or musket ball ?

  • @Petra44YT
    @Petra44YT6 ай бұрын

    The Vogelsauer Treppe in Wuppertal has 241 steps, if you count both parts. So I guess I could handle that hill, too.

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    6 ай бұрын

    Sure! However, I do have to mention that the steps at Waterloo are very tough (steep and high steps, but that's my personal experience, perhaps others don't agree)

  • @justicesomeday
    @justicesomeday11 ай бұрын

    new subscriber here thxs !!

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    7 ай бұрын

    Welcome! And thanks!

  • @finncarlbomholtsrensen1188
    @finncarlbomholtsrensen1188 Жыл бұрын

    As a Dane I visited this site many years ago, as a Long Distance walker during several years and doing the many 100 km walks (Dodentocht, Night of Vlaanders + ). But I also visited the small Museum to the side, where they replay the battle with small static figures and lights, making them move during the battle. As a teacher friend of mine said after, had he learned more about this battle from seeing this, than ever before!

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    You should visit again, it has changed a lot, the museum got even better and more sites are cleaned up. The Dodentocht is very impressive! Congrats!

  • @finncarlbomholtsrensen1188

    @finncarlbomholtsrensen1188

    11 ай бұрын

    @@alternativebelgium As a now 75 year old Dane I managed to walk the Dodentocht 16 times, plus most other Belgian 100 km walks around that time, several starting at 100 km Welkenreadt (Euregio), as a first (also a few 200 km, 40 hours "Eurodax" (Being walked in a group, at 6 km/h) walks, in Belgium + one similar 30 hour 150 km! Sadly several times in Brussels, during that, we stopped and had a lecture, but only in Flemish and French, of which I hardly understood anything (Maybe about a famous Belgian, Jugend Architect?)). I'm able to read a Flemish text, if I have an idea what it is about! Also the insane Kluisbergen, 50 km wooden hill climb (7 times), which is today made as a two day 50 km walk, I think? It was expensive as I had to take Monday off, to be able to walk Sunday, instead of just the mostly ½ a day, Friday, to drive down from Denmark during nights, before the start of a 100 km! 😄 Finn. Denmark

  • @fastyaveit
    @fastyaveit Жыл бұрын

    It is my Birthday today, 18th June, this battle kicked off at 11 am on 18th June 1815 which was a Sunday, today is Sunday 18th June 2023 11:30 am Happy Birthday, me 🍰🍰🎂

  • @ottosaxo
    @ottosaxo Жыл бұрын

    You are right, before ABBA, German speakers had two different place names for that battle, and by the way they didn't pronounce Waterloo in the English way until then.

  • @eldonhagen1257
    @eldonhagen125711 ай бұрын

    In my opinion, it was bad judgement to build a huge mound of earth as a battlefield monument, because it destroyed the essence of the battlefield...the very ridge that was the central element of Wellingtons position. Battlefield scholars and military strategists must be frustrated by this. Regardless, I'd still love to visit there someday!

  • @Vlad65WFPReviews

    @Vlad65WFPReviews

    10 ай бұрын

    Yes, when you go to see the Waterloo battlefield, you can never see the Waterloo battlefield.

  • @BUR71
    @BUR71 Жыл бұрын

    От былого ландшафта поля 1815 года мало, что осталось. Между позициями была низина и по всему фронту англичан был крутой подъем.

  • @lampualadinidx9060
    @lampualadinidx9060 Жыл бұрын

    Nice video, i follow u miss🚀

  • @garycates9911
    @garycates9911 Жыл бұрын

    Amazing ! Thank you. KZread dropped your video in front of me. This is an aside ; about 200 years latter my Fathers favorite sibling was killed in the snow of 44 - 45 . He was mortaley wounded by " machine gun ripple across the chest " , but died of namonia and was placed in the ground of Belgium. His name was / is Jesse Lee Cates. My Grand Fathers name and my only Brothers name. Is there a grave yard for Americans close by ? Though out his life my Father's best friend was a 1919 belt fed Browning.He was with the 11th Airborn in the Pacific. I had often wondered ; Dad why the hard edge ? Was it from breathing too deeply of those soft south Pacific breezes back in the 40's , or the deaths of your Brother and friends ? Thanks . A Yank from Montana.

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    There's a very large American cemetery near Liege (American Ardennes cemetery). I'll go there one of these days to film. It's very impressive. I took my son there (he was born in the US, so he's a US citizen) and I was very impressed.

  • @garycates9911

    @garycates9911

    Жыл бұрын

    @@alternativebelgium Thank you very much for your reply. I am looking forward to this up coming video. I will never be able to see my Uncles marker ; Belgium even now is a very dangerous place . One could get ran over by a tractor !! It's much safer here in W. Montana among the big cats , Grizzlies ect. You do be careful. Gary

  • @jeffsmith2022

    @jeffsmith2022

    Жыл бұрын

    Namonia?...

  • @jakku30
    @jakku302 ай бұрын

    Madam could you please comment name of cities u told 220 kms south where battle of waterloo was orginally fought

  • @davidcollins2648
    @davidcollins2648 Жыл бұрын

    Napoleon only moved up to La Belle Alliance later in the afternoon and spent the morning to the South.

  • @stevenleroux7033
    @stevenleroux70338 ай бұрын

    So interesting thank you

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    7 ай бұрын

    Very welcome!

  • @dulls8475
    @dulls8475 Жыл бұрын

    My Great Great Great or it might be 2 Greats thought at the Battle of Waterloo. He lost a leg and not only that he was in the Royal Navy...anyone guess why he was there?

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    Hmm… please tell us!

  • @michaelscott5653
    @michaelscott5653 Жыл бұрын

    Do you know if Hougoumont is still standing?

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    Yes, it most definitely is and you can visit it as well. I have some images, I’ll try to make a video of it one of these days.

  • @brucefreadrich1188
    @brucefreadrich1188 Жыл бұрын

    I found out about "Waterloo teeth" recently. If you don't know - look it up, but be warned makes for some gruesome reading. (Although it does give you some thing to throw out for small talk next time you visit your dentist.)

  • @asmith2406
    @asmith2406 Жыл бұрын

    The real question is what could be seen where the ridge was the British troops were behind.

  • @michaelwhite8031
    @michaelwhite80317 ай бұрын

    Battles are 10% planning and 90% luck.

  • @sanziohanzo
    @sanziohanzo Жыл бұрын

    Poor resolution... kills it.

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    Жыл бұрын

    Sorry about that, just used my IPhone to film this. It was also very sunny that day and I had to shoot against the sun a few times. If I continue making these videos, I'll upgrade my equipment ;)

  • @allanspence1347

    @allanspence1347

    Жыл бұрын

    @@alternativebelgium the information is the main thing. I am taking my Son to see this in September. thank you.

  • @flitsertheo

    @flitsertheo

    11 ай бұрын

    @@alternativebelgium A decent DSLR camera (such as a Canon Eos) doesn't cost more than an Iphone and can make both high-res pictures and 4K movies.

  • @Niki-ln5be
    @Niki-ln5be10 ай бұрын

    You should go to iwo Jima with a metal detector

  • @NigelsWargaming
    @NigelsWargaming6 ай бұрын

    Even as a Brit. I am of the view it was Prussian/German victory. The King German Legion where a significant contribution to Wellingtons Allied army. I visited in the 1980s when stationed in (West) Germany. What jumped out to me which wasn't on maps, was how close La Hayne Sainte was to the Allied Centre.

  • @MrLooperg
    @MrLooperg6 ай бұрын

    The mound was constructed there by the Belgium king whose son died in the battle.

  • @alternativebelgium

    @alternativebelgium

    6 ай бұрын

    Thanks for your comment! Technically, you're right. Belgium was then one country with the Netherlands. King William was the Dutch king before also adding what is now Belgium to his Kingdom. His son got injured on this location (not killed though, lucky for him)

  • @MarcoTheHague

    @MarcoTheHague

    2 ай бұрын

    The belgian king good lord are you mad? Fuck me that aches my heart as a dutchman.

  • @BrianandMoe
    @BrianandMoe Жыл бұрын

    That wild hair in the face was annoying otherwise good job

  • @wisecoonie
    @wisecoonie3 ай бұрын

    Ten eerste, “Lasne” spreek je uit als “Laan”. Ten tweede, uw Engels heeft een gruwelijk Vlaams accent. “Pruusians”…. Mens toch. Ook “Blücher” (met Umlaut dus) spreek je heel anders uit.

  • @S3eauchemin
    @S3eauchemin Жыл бұрын

    About as interesting as Stone Mountain.

  • @carausiuscaesar5672
    @carausiuscaesar5672 Жыл бұрын

    British officer:Right lads ladies and non binaries🏳️‍🌈🇬🇧Remember the great cause for which we fight:100 more years of aristocratic rule!can i have three hoorahs ?!