I’ve actually found the primary to be pointless. I’ve started going direct the the secondary.

@OriginalFallofMind

2 жыл бұрын

Lol

@agomezjunco

2 жыл бұрын

Hehehe

@alexfentress9873

2 жыл бұрын

😂😂

@theghostofsw6276

Жыл бұрын

Based brewer from the Charlie Papazian school of thought.

@dannyzwolf4546

10 ай бұрын

I do one better, I skip the primary and secondary. I just pay more for a lower quality product. Lol

Thank you for clarifying what Ive been feeling all these years. I have never transferred my beer to a secondary, but always thought I dis wrong. all the time my beers went out great. secondary is not necessary. Thank you Larry.

I've never used a secondary. By the time I started brewing, a few years ago, most veteran homebrewers had already debunked that step so I never messed with it.

Thank you for posting this. I dry hop, add fruit, etc. all in primary. Never had a problem.

Great video Lar'!!! I only go to secondary when the recipe calls for dry hopping an IPA (other than high krausen dry hop) or special ingredients added like cocoa nibs, vanilla bean, and toasted coconut for a coconut stout for example. I love your, keep it real "REAL FUN" simple attitude!! Thanks again.

Agreed! We have moved to only using one fermenter and cold crashed to get great results. Especially with things like the depth charge on the the Big Mouth Bubbler which helps with dry hopping or adding things post fermentation. Cheers!

Agreed 100% Larry. I stopped using a "secondary fermenter" 15-20 years ago and have had zero issues. That said I started using conical fermenters a few years ago but that was mainly to switch to stainless steel and for ease of yeast harvesting for washing and re-pitching. Cheers

Hey Larry, Your videos got me into brewing! Thanks for all the great content and reviews!

Completely agree. I only use a secondary for lagers, beers that I'm adding something to towards the end (fruit, dry hop, etc), or something that will be aging.

Hearing this information just cleared up my schedule for this evening

I'm so glad i finally have someone else agreeing with me. I've been brewing for 3 years and I only use secondary if i'm adding fruit or something like that after a week or so, and i'm sure even that isn't necessary, i just find it easier to make sure certain flavorings or oak chips are spread out more evenly if i rack on top of them. Love your channel and happy brewing!

@TheEviltwin44

5 жыл бұрын

@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY It's not too aggressive, but the main argument is "oh if you let it sit on the trub for that long it's going to impart off flavors in your brew." But for the relatively short time it's on there (2-3 weeks) , I completely disagree. I even had one friend argue that a tertiary was necessary to clarify the beer even farther before kegging/bottling. But if i want super clear, i just add some gelatin at kegging and get the same results. I feel like putting extra unnecessary steps in there just makes the whole process seem too difficult to people who otherwise might want to take up this awesome hobby.

I wish you were my neighbor!! I have brewed off and on for many years ..yup I have done my process by the book.. Thank you you for sharing your experience !

When I made my first 3gallon batch of mead I let it go for six months in the primary fermenter, far too long because I got lazy and didn’t have confidence in my ability to brew alcohol... it tasted OK but had a bit of a dead yeast taste, so I siphoned it into some old liquor bottles and added a stick of cinnamon and a medium handful of raisins to each bottle and let it sit for two weeks, after that it was delicious! You can really smell the raisins but they don’t overpower the drink! Now I’m alot more confident with home brewing thanks to all the great KZread videos.

now tat what I need to hear all of the of the , that goes on. I'am glade that you say you know not once you have done this over and. thank you again

I agree totally. My practice is just as you described and my beers are great. The only time I have done a secondary was when I did a fruit beer. Keep up the good work. I really enjoy the videos!

I have always leaned to the K.I.S.S. method. Started brewing ales in the late 90s with a glass carboy and never did use a second fermenter and I have been brewing great tasting beer ever since. So, from my own experience I agree a 100% when brewing ales.

Yep I agree. I've been brewing for 24 years. Never noticed the difference with racking unless it is a super heavy porter. I guess it makes me happy to rack off the 3 inches of slooge to let it age a little longer.

For the most part I agree with you. I do use a secondary sometimes. Mainly for dry hopping or for a stout onto vanilla beans etc. It is absolutely not necessary to transfer though. I do find the beer will clarify faster in secondary but that's about the only other benefit I see. Cheers Larry! 🍻

@crm75c

6 жыл бұрын

I use a secondary most times because darn it I bought the auto-siphon and extra carboys when I started 15 years ago! lol.... There are pros and cons to each.

@crm75c

6 жыл бұрын

Just had a heated debate about this very topic in a homebrew facebook group. I agree with you though anything that simplifies the brew day and makes it more enjoyable and of course shorter is better!

As regards beer, my experience matches your own. For the last 5 years, I have only made wines, predominantly meads. My primary reason to rack into another container is to let the fermented wine sit on fruit. In general I find it easier to rack the wine onto the fruit. If the wine deserves additional bulk aging I rack it once more, just because some of the more delicate fruit seems to have a limited time before it begins to have a negative effect on taste. While I have never experienced this directly, there is a persistent notion in some reviews that claim that Lalvin 71B-1122 can impart some less desirable tastes if left too long. Personally, I like to use this yeast for fruit wines, but because of the process I describe above I have probably never been in a position to see this happen. I would be interested to hear if anyone has experience that contradicts the supposed issue with this strain. Thanks for the great video.

This is some great news! Thanks, Larry.

Thanks again Larry! I am quitting the practice this week. My best beers have been my own SMaSH's brewed and bottled after just 2 weeks to make it 30 days to drinking. I use carboys and 22 ounce bottles yet but contemplating going to kegs. About 50 batches now since Feb. 2019. I need to quit giving so much away!

I never used a secondary when I first started brewing but recently I have started to move my beer off the trub for bottling. I have to say it has made my bottling process much easier and a clearer beer before carbonation which probably doesn't make a lot of difference as it will clear either way. I did use a secondary for dry hopping but I bottled straight from that as I had used a nylon bag for my dry hops. The other advantage for me is that I don't have as much of a clean up on bottling day because the bottling bucket is relatively clean after bottling is done. But Yes, I agree, it's not necessary to secondary. It's more down to the space and equipment I have I think.

Great vid as always. Cheers, I’ve been making mead for over 10 years and recently started home brewing. 4 batches of extract under my belt so far. I’ve never secondary fermented my meads or home brews. I agree with those that say it allows for possibility of oxidation. In my eyes it’s too precious to risk. Also I don’t take gravity readings to determine when fermentation has leveled off. Again it’s too precious to waste. I want every ounce of goodness. Currently fermenting 5 gal of Lock Down Brown Ale extract/partial mash. I hit the target OG at 1.052 and I’ll give another week, a total of 3 weeks before racking. Waiting for my case of 2L Palla growlers to arrive so I can rack in those.

I'm about to start brewing for the 1st time. I've always thought this seemed unnecessary, and I certainly know now. Thanks bro!

@BEERNBBQBYLARRY

3 жыл бұрын

Glad I could help!

Thank you I have been racking my brain as to why I have to do a secondary. Great video and much thanks

@patriciamcbride2121

5 жыл бұрын

@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY indeed and I am kegging so I didn't see the point I sure appreciate it 😎

Thanks for the info vids! First batch of beer ever in fermentor.

I agree with you on most styles especially ales that a secondary is totally unnecessary,

I agree with you 100%. I've been brewing for 4 years and I've never done a secondary fermentation in another vessel. Northern Brewer explains what secondary fermentation is. The primary fermentation occurs relatively quick until a slowing occurs. The secondary fermentation actually has very little fermentation occurring. Secondary fermentation is simply letting your beer settle out. Typically towards the end of the second week most fermentation has halted. Just let it go the full two weeks and keg. Perfect Ale everytime. We've never had a bad batch in 4 years. This is probably the best video I have seen on this subject. I also like to remind people that a thousand years ago people were making really good beer. They didn't have conical s,refractometers or brewers yeadt for that matter. The air fermented their beer. Dont force it. Let your All Grain recipe speak for itself. You got this! CHEERS!

I agree after first fermentation is done what you need is just patience

My first batches of my double IPA were awesome...i didn't do a secondary ferment. I have 2 batches now going with 2nd ferment after roughly 5-6 days of primary and 7 for 2nd. The beer seems much clearer, but not convinced it will taste that much better. We'll see! Cheers! And great video buddy!

good information Larry. New to the hobby and have been researching on whether this step is really necessary. thanks for the vid

@BEERNBBQBYLARRY

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Agree 100%. I brew partial mash recipes. My rule-of-thumb is, you leave your Ales in the fermenter for 1 week past completion of fermentation & your Largers for 2 (up to 3 weeks, depending on type/style) weeks. Does it take more time? -yes, does it take more effort? -no, does it improve the end quality of your beer? -hell yes!

Agree, Two weeks in Blichmann and transfer. Only if i do dry hopping i just add it to the fermentor.

An old school brewer 20+ years and going to try this on my next batch. I will need to rack my lambic into a secondary, i need the room to add a few pounds of raspberries. Thank you for the advice, I will also like not having too prep/clean more items than needed!

100% can attest to this being true. I used to do primary and secondary when brewing 15 years ago; then had a break, moved country and started brewing again recently - same recipes, different rig, but stopped secondary and the beer is terrific, clear, no off flavour and much easier.

Ferment for how ever long it takes, normally chuck the drop hop in when 6 points from target gravity I don’t even cold crash and keg it the following weekend after it’s hit the mark. Every thing I use and how I go about it is standardised and I use the most efficient/least labour intensive products. The most time consuming part is taking the fittings off of the fermenter to clean it. It’s got to the point now that it’s actually less work to keep the fermenter constantly in action. I just passivate it once a year. Kit I use if your interested :- SS Brewtech brewmaster bucket & FTss backed up with a heat belt on an inkbird if the temperature/weather is a bit unpredictable Tilt hydrometer PBW for cleaning (100% labour free) Starsan in a spray bottle Cyklone paint mixer in a drill to aerate the wort Supermarket mineral water In- keg dry hopper if I feel it needs a little more of a kick, which is just left in till it’s drank I tend to use extract kits for quickness and just sub out the brewing sugar for mangrove jacks pure malt extract. I few times a year I can get a drum of fresh wort from a brewery but to be honest I can’t really say I can notice much difference. It’s all way better than shop bought. Just kegged a fresh wort batch with a massive amount of hops and mango extract that I’m really looking forward to

Totally agree. I brew all belgian style ales and the bottle is the only secondary you need in homebrew

I had a feeling that a secondary fermenter is a waste of time and money. And you Sir nailed it. Thanks!

I have never transferred to secondary besides once to see what all the fuss was about and went back to single stage fermentation, the beer does it's own conditioning in the bottle or keg anyway I reckon! Cheers Larry mate great vid as always!

Love your work Larry. Exactly what I do. 👍

Thank you . I don't brew yet- I'm learning.

Thanks Larry, I am rather new to this whole home brewing stuff and your videos are very helpful. Keep up the good work!

Who am I to argue. You have been doing this longer than me. CHEERS!!

I dry hop, cold crash and add gelatine all to my primary. I rack off crystal clear (commercial quality) beer every time, usually in 7-10 days from brew day. I have SS Brew Buckets so have an adjustable racking cane so it makes avoiding the trub during bottling/kegging easy.

I agree with you I also dry hop in the primary

@madsandreassrensen3692

6 жыл бұрын

How do you do that? How do you get the hop covered by wort without sinking into the yeast rub at the bottom?

Good to hear this. I've been trawling the web the past couple of days trying to get this settled in my head after preparing to get a brew on after a looong time off. You've just confirmed my suspicions. It makes sense, the best beers I ever made were the ones when I first started off simple. Complications came when I overcomplicated the process after 'researching' and convincing myself I should be doing things that are really unnecessary. Cheers 🍻 subbed 👍

Always followed the received wisdom of the time and racked the beer off the sediment before it was finished fermenting so it continued in the secondary fermenter. Added finings and fitted an air lock at this point too. Never had any issues with infection or oxidation and it produced very clear and clean beers. Now I only use a secondary vessel for lagering, as the conventional wisdom now seems to suggest its a bit of a wasted effort. However, whilst there is not difference in flavour, I find that my ales are more hazy now at kegging / bottling stage and take longer to drop clear than previously and never quite get as crystal clear as before. I should be grateful for your advice on when and how to use finings with only one fermentation. The finings I use advise me to add after fermentation and leave for two days to clear before kegging - but I'm reluctant to do this as it will let oxygen to come into contact for a few days. Alternatively should I add finings earlier or at kegging / bottling? Thanks in advance for your kind advice, your videos are excellent. You saved me a fair wad of cash by convincing me that I don't need a conical fermenter, and you know what - I really don't. Cheers buddy!

You are 100% right, not only is the green beer susceptible to airborne bugs, secondary fermentation is a complete waste of time. Without blowing my own trumpet, I have been homebrewing since 1982 and decided to grainbrew in 1990 and such experience has taught me that secondary fermentation increases the chances of a ruined five gallon (23 litre) batch. For convenience I use the Grainfather that is highly recommended. Happy brewing!!

When I got started in making homebrew was in the early 90s and the first kit was a single stage fermenter a 6.8 gal bucket just got started that way.

I think you are 100% correct! When the is done, it's done! Cheers

Great info, ill put that in my back pocket! thanks again Larry!

Larry, I only Brew Ales and have tried secondary a few times but do not do it anymore as I also think it is a waste of time . I do not bottle anymore either because it is a pita but I do use 6 1/2 gallon plastic buckets and love them! I leave my brew in them 2 weeks and cold crash for 24 hours and also have a clean empty and sanitized keg in kegerator ready to accept the beer from the fermenter. Once in the keg I put 20# co2 on it for 2 days and its ready to drink. Cheers! Dale

@patriciamcbride2121

5 жыл бұрын

Damn that's what I'm talking about

Larry, I've been following your advice for quite a while, and I think this was one of the topics I asked you about a while ago. So I've only been using a single fermenter, then it goes into the keg. And while yesterday's "Labor Day IPA" may only be my 9th? batch, I still haven't made a beer I didn't like. Thanks for all your help!

@TimmyTommyTippy

6 жыл бұрын

Hi David, I'm at the end of my 2 week first stage fermentation and am a new kegger. Do you find any noticeable yeast still settling in the keg bottom? Thanks.

Defenitely helping me out with this thanks larry

Thank you, that's what I wanted to hear !

So many good tips. Cheers mate from Australia.

Hey Larry, hadn't made any beer yet, but just picked a bushel of grapes and have crushed them & added sugar, pectin, nutrient, mbsulphite and have the must sitting overnite to pitch the yeast tomorrow. Thinking hard about ordering a couple fast fermenters. Watched a ton of vids last season on them. Really like the idea of no racking, just drop the sed ball. So cool. Anyway, my daughter has loads of grapes, so I had to do it. I agree with your thoughts on this. See ya

Sorry to necro-post on a 2 year old video, but from what I've heard, just like you mentioned, there ARE certain times you need to get your beer or your wine off the dregs. Lagers are one, however, my personal opinion is that you have to allow enough time for your yeast to "clean up after themselves" so to speak. So if you are going to use secondaries, which is totally up to the individual brewer or vintner, don't be in too much of a rush. I have 12 gallons of wine that up until recently, had be sitting on the secondary dregs (yeah yeah I racked it out of primary after a month or so lol) for about 9 months. I just degassed it and oaked half of it. It may sit several more months until I'm ready to bottle. Patience is always rewarded. Happy brewing! Love the videos btw!

great video Larry!

Started brewing since Covid and have not used a secondary yet, and all have come out looking great. Now tasting is another things...but that’s my fault being a beginner brewer! 😆 Great video. 🍻

thank you for the information...i am going to follow your advice and leave the 80 pints i have brewing for another week or two ...thanks again

I feel like secondary speeds up how fast it clears up and finishes, you can leave it in primary, but will get the same beer faster with a secondary ferment. I have been doing beer and wine both ways for a few years and prefer the two stage ferment. That's the beauty of brewing your own, you do it your own way.

@mattmarcovitch4617

3 жыл бұрын

I dont mind doing a little to get a lot, I have a batch of wine in 3 weeks and is clearer and cleaner both in flavour and appearance. Less time, better quality, we brew our own to have the best, why cut corners?

I just started my very 1st batch 2 days ago. I already have it in my plan to do a 2nd-ary, but I'm plenty interested in doing a single fermented batch for my 2nd! For that matter... I've always liked a little cloudy beer anyhow. Usually has a little more character I've believed.

Good video. I make meads and ciders, and I’ll definitely try and eliminate a needless step if I can.

Thanks for the videos Larry, very much appreciate your pragmatic advice. Just about to start your Zombie dust clone - waiting for my homebrew shop to restock on Melanoidin grain. Cheers!

I see your point about not liking secondary fermentor. I'm still young in Home Brewing and use the glass carboys for secondary for simply clearing my beer. That's really what it was intended to do unless you filter your beer when transferring it. There is always risk of infection when transferring beer, but the best way to avoid bit is to PRATICE RELIGIOUS SANITATION HABITS, you can never over sanitize.

You are doing it right! When I make mead I use a secondary only to add my fruit.

Thank you for the insight.

Agree with you. I don't use secondary either.

I'm with you, I don't use a secondary for my beer or mead!

nice info thanks Larry!

Generally speaking: the only thing "necessary" to making alcohol is sugar, water and yeast. Anything beyond those three things literally come down to what you "prefer". Beer and wine both develop flavors as they age. Adding brown sugar vs white sugar to wine will taste nearly identical two weeks in the bottle but wait three months and the difference is significant. If you plan on drinking a batch within a month or two then it probably doesn't make a difference. If you let it sit in a bottle for 3 or more months then it likely makes more of a difference.

Personally I like the secondary for the effect it has one clearing up the beer. I work as a canner in craft beer industry, and view a secondary fermenter as similar to a bright tank. Transfering it into the carboy from the brew bucket leaves less Trub to deal with when you're tranfering to your bottling bucket or a keg, even if you cold crash it. Although I do respect what you're saying and ill give it a try on a hazy ipa I have planned in the near future

@ME-rv1pw

2 жыл бұрын

I agree, I just call it conditioning instead of secondary to clear up confusion

@wilkanomics

Жыл бұрын

I use a secondary solely for the reason of getting rid of the trub

1:02 100% agree. I use a secondary fermenter for my lager style beers because I really do believe it helps the beer come out clearer when fermentation is done and you start laggering the batch. But for Ale's, completely pointless. It just introduces oxidation.

I think You are right, I do primary for 3 weeks and then 3 more weeks in the bottle. No complains jet. :)

Well said. I believe you.

As a beginner I started with one fermenter. All was good for me. Now I started doing a secondary and did not see much difference. The only reason I can think of is that you get a supposed clearer wine when using secondary. However, that can still be achieved by siphoning it correctly into bottles without touching the bottom of fermenter or agitating the mix. For sure, much less work and less risk of contamination. It is always nice to hear different opinions from experience guys. Thanks Larry.

@BEERNBBQBYLARRY

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. With wine, racking every few months during the bulk aging process is another matter. Racking during fermentation makes no sense for either wine or beer IMO.

@Afterone

Жыл бұрын

Larry has his process down pat. As a home brewer and wine maker I can agree with much. A lot has to do with equipment, temperature and of course ingredients. Secondary fermentation is beneficial for certain styles, just like wine. And yes, if you are using basic ingredients it does help with clarity.

Just did my first primary-to-corny. Thanks for making me feel like it was a good choice! Mark Butera, owner of O'so Brewing Company in Wi, has also told me that secondary is a waste of time. Question for you BnBBQL, what is the fastest pale ale from cook to serve? The Cream Ale I cooked on Oct 31 I am trying to serve on November 15th. I kegged on the 10th, it is in a fridge now, then I am going to carb it tonight (Nov 13th). I'll let you all know what happens.

I agree with not using a secondary fermenter. I started home-brewing about a year and a half ago. When starting off I was always following the time guidelines on how long to let it sit In primary and then secondary. Now a few months ago I've just been leaving my beer in primary and just going strait to keg and have had no issues. Even for the beer that I have not had room in kegs for that sat in the primary for close to a month. Defiantly not racking to secondary cuts down on time. I defiantly would say it may help to a point for clearing your beer but from experience if you going to keg most of everything will settle out in the keg and it will pour out within your first pours especially when using gelatin.

Haha, nice. Watching as my beer drains into the secondary. Cheers!

@jdmlong

6 жыл бұрын

You make a lot of good points though. I thought my beer started coming out better after doing secondaries, but chances are that the extra two weeks of conditioning would have been achieved in bottles just as well.

@jdmlong

6 жыл бұрын

BEER-N-BBQ by Larry I will certainly give it a shot on my next batch and compare.

@rodlopez8051

4 жыл бұрын

Let for 2 weeks Thats all you need

@raspingalmond3059

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Larry! What about adding fruit or other flavors, oak chips or dry hopping? Thanks!

@awesomepumashoes

3 жыл бұрын

@@jdmlong did it end up the same without a secondary?

I agree to thanks, Larry

I will try it with my current batch.

Within the first few seconds, I knew this was the right vid to watch. Can’t go wrong with brew and bbq...

It depends on the type of ale your brewing. I make NE style IPAs and West Coast Pales so secondary and even third dry hopping do incorporate new bright oily flavors. Hops sitting in your beer longer than 4-6 days can start putting off a vegetabley grassy flavor. I like to keep em fresh and plentiful to get that juicy hop nectar

@dvdrwsor

4 жыл бұрын

Goggle Twist-Lock Spice Ball Tea Infuser and please answer back. Will this help avoid transfer ? There are lots of sizes, and you can even use 2 or more at a time.

You are right Man congrats

Great explanation

The reason I rack to a secondary fermenter is for clarifying my beer. No, it is not necessary, but by using a little bit of polyclar and crash cooling , I can have a beer that is clear and carbonated in 7-10 days!

Secondary fermentations are more for wine, or meads. There are a couple of reasons that I do this. The main reason I do it on my meads is natural fermentation takes time. I use my first fermentation and rack to burn through the surgars and get my mead up to my preferred ABV. Then, I re-rack it to flavor it, and back sweeten. Since I add volume I use a less aggressive yeast, to keep my mead honest as a mild secondary ferment. It is a way that I can speed the fermentation process up, and bargain with the flavor and sweetness at the same time.

20 years ago secondary was the norm with homebrewers. I think some old schoolers keep doing it out of habit but I stopped secondary a few years ago as well and never looked back.

One of the things I started doing like 2 years ago was I do 1 week in the fermenter (6 gallon carboy) then i put my fermenter in my keg fridge for about a week or till it’s nice and clear, we’ll as clear as it will get on its own, then I rack it in to my keg. The nice thing is that the Trub stays nice and compact.

@Beerchanic

5 жыл бұрын

I haven't noticed anything off flavors when I do this, and I have use dry yeast like us-05 and fermentation is about 70*F do I don't have very good temperature control at the moment and it seems to finish fermenting with in 4-5 days, but I leave it alone till 7th-8th day, depending on availability then I put it in my keg frig for a few days before kegging it, do you think maybe I should wait till day 14 before putting it in the fridge?

I dont know if you're right or wrong i just started. Like your video thanks

I have done it both ways with excellent results, but prefer to use the secondary fermenter. There's something about having several secondary's lined up with different brews watching them through the glass jug. As I wrote that I was looking at 2 glass carboys filled with deliciousness and joy, (Cream Ale & Pumpkin Beer) soon to be kegged. Does it get any better? I think not.

Would love to know.. when making hard apple cider.. can I skip the secondary as well? Thank you

I agree with Larry!! Crash cool and let it be.

Depends on the style. I definitely find it necessary when bottling.

I never move to secondary fermenter and have never had issues with off flavors from the yeast trub, that's about one month from brew to racking into keg. If it's going to be longer I usually rack to secondary. How long have you left a Ale in fermenter? Thanks Larry love your videos. Eric

Thanks for the video been brewing for a year and ready to step up my game. What’s your go to fermentation vessel?

I'm with you faster beer... Believe it or not I have one stout that has been in primary since 2008. Getting the courage to try it, I'm still working up the courage though. Happy Labor day, Mike

@MrEvanfriend

6 жыл бұрын

I did a quad that stayed too long and too hot on the yeast cake, it tasted like soy sauce. I hated it, but I was able to give it away to people who didn't seem to either notice or mind.

@hoofixrman

6 жыл бұрын

10 years in primary!?! Ummm...might as well leave it for another decade at this point.

@ForgetU

6 жыл бұрын

hoofixrman martin - That's kind of what I was thinking. Guess I should get the turkey baster out and taste it. I should bottle some for beer mail. haha, Mike.

@ForgetU

6 жыл бұрын

I poured it out recently. It had like a 2 inch marshmallow (fungus) in neck of carboy... I did not taste the beer if that is what it was.

I thumbed this up 7 months ago. I normally move to keg after primary. Thus the keg is secondary, especially when I dry hop for 3-5 days. Oh BTW, I don't have a problem with clarity. Hoss