For all who need a back button: The next firmware release will have one. - Update: v19 has been released (new menu, new switch assignments)

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

That's great news! Thanks Stephan! I'm really looking forward to the next firmware release. (I just pinned your comment so everybody can see it).

@logicone5667

3 жыл бұрын

I thought this was a joke and a shot at current OS manufacturers like "The next apple update will have a brand new never before seen thing called a "drop down menu!" Lol

@DJAlup

3 жыл бұрын

You could use a larger screen and list the menu out. You can get the code to do this from build of Marlin firmware for 3d printers. That code also includes an encoder wheel with push button.

@8BitMuseum

3 жыл бұрын

​@@logicone5667 Not really ;) I redefine the existing navigation keys. There was a poll last year what RCT users want and the result was to keep the existing GUI. But there have so many ICs been added in the last year that it is time to improve it a little bit I guess.

@sylviam6535

3 жыл бұрын

You really should have an option to sell this as a kit.

12:47 if it doesn't have a dedicated back button by design, the easiest way will be implement in the firmware a "hold" (long press) state on the select button to jump back .

@markusfritze

3 жыл бұрын

Or use the back/jump buttons as "back/forward" and make a long press on either of them speed up the scrolling through the devices over time.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Stephan just told me that he removed an unnecessary combination and added the back functionality for the next firmware. Yay! 😃

@jlucasound

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab Awesome! Now I REALLY want one!! :-)

@nicwilson89

3 жыл бұрын

I was gonna say you could potentially read out the firmware data using AVR Studio or something (may need to whack some 'bodge' wires onto the micro to access the pins it uses for ISP if there's no ISP header) and just write that function in probably fairly easily, but if he's adding it anyway then there's no need :D

@tithund

3 жыл бұрын

I was thinking of putting the whole thing in a case and wiring an extra button to activate both, should also be able to connect a turning knob like that with some in between stuff.

Love this video for two reasons. The first being its very well produced with clear explanations. It also shows the human side of many of us and the common mistakes and problem solving we all do from time to time such as working through the problem of programming the fuses and firmware, picking the wrong display, forgetting the contrast setting, etc. It's "reality" KZread. I really want to pull the trigger on this and build one. Keep up the fine work on your very informative videos sir.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the great feedback! I'm really glad to hear you liked it, mistakes and all 😃

Love the "warts and all" aspect of this video. Thank you for showing your mistakes along the way, as we can learn much more from them than just seeing the working unit.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I try to keep mistakes, especially when there's something to be learned from them.

You're right, it needs a rotary switch with a button and submenus. Also it's be cool to have a few memory buttons that could be custom shortcut to chips you test frequently.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. It does have something about frequently used chips which I didn't look in detail, but you may already be able to do exactly that.

@redace001

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, they need to look at what some of the 3D printer firmwares do with a menu and rotary switch and select button. Very effective way to handle long lists.

@gazeddy

2 жыл бұрын

@@redace001 the 3d printer lcd boards are made (in general) to an open "standard" and the cheapest often come with sd reader and rotary encoder on the board. to the point i integrate them into projects im using lcds on because its easier

Don't underestimate the amount of work required to design and develop the software for something like this. The idea the they make this available at cost is truly generous. I think they can look at your comments regarding the user interface. It might not be a trivial exercise but doable to re-purpose some of the switches in different modes of the menu. Very good and thorough review. As usual saw a video pop up from your channel and jumped to view it. Great work.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Oh, absolutely! The amount of work he's put into this and he continues to put into it is amazing! A part of the quirks of it is due to how it's grown since it started. At the beginning, when it only tested a handful of chips, something like a rotary button wasn't nearly as important as it is now. Glad you liked it and thanks for the kind words!

@nickwallette6201

3 жыл бұрын

Just the reference and look-up tool is a huge gift to the retro community. Sincere thanks to 8-bit Museum for that.

@vladnickul

3 жыл бұрын

is not at cost :)) not even close.

Remember to set the contrast for the new LCD. Also, I would mount it in a wooden case with a lid, and print the extended chip list as either a table on the inside is the lid, or as a little booklet that sits next to the device.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Great idea about the case and putting the list there!

Great walk through from start to finish, even point out the room to improve, I think the author will appreciate your work.

Great video, really useful device to have in your arsenal. Love the way you keep any mistakes in your videos, rather than editing them out. Makes for a far better viewing experience. Thanks Noel 👍

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it, bonehead mistakes and all! 😃

These LCD screen have the same controller and ALL work with a virtual display of 2 lines x 40 columns. The physical LCD will always just display a part of this virtual screen. If you write sequential chars on the display, they will be written to the RAMbut will not be displayed. A 4x20 display will have the first half of line 1 in line 1, the second half on line 2, then 1st half of line 2 on line 3 and the last half of line 2 on line 4 (or something like that, it's 30 years ago that I wrote a Siemens ES102 display emulation on such a Toshiba LCD display).

@awesomefacepalm

3 жыл бұрын

I was about to write the same comment haha They're fun and easy to work with, very fun as a first project to make your own library

@watchmakerful

3 жыл бұрын

Isn't a 20*4 display actually a set of two 2*20 displays?

@SidneyCritic

3 жыл бұрын

From memory - bad memory could be wrong -, there is 2 types of 4x20. I think it's just a couple of pins on the end that are different.

Perfect timing for me, as I've recently launched into a retrocomputing project. Thanks so much for this build and review!

Yeah, as soon as I saw the interface I immediately thought "that should really be a rotary encoder with velocity" ;)

Psh.. I could totally design and build one of these myself. .... just as soon as I get done with the other 8000 projects I said that about. 😒 Hm. Maybe I should just buy one, so I could actually use it before I expire.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Haha, and you could use it as part of your 8000 projects too 😃

@robertbruce7686

2 жыл бұрын

Ha ha ha never a truer statement said!!

Many years ago (1985 to be precise), I was part of a design team for a RAM tester for use in factories. It was about a metre across and was too heavy for one person to move. Things have changed.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Haha, seriously! As well as the prices of the DRAM itself! 😃

@MarkALong64

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab When I was a student, I measured prices in how many 2114L chips that was - I had an Acorn Atom at the time and I wanted to expand it all the way to 12K.

Thanks Noel. Love that you left the mistakes is… Great manuals often have the TLDR problem. We are all humans :-) I have a RAM tester (no idea what kind of model it is - it was pricy), which also measures the maximum speed of the RAM chip. I've found a bunch, where the maximum speed was slower than what was promised on the label…

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it! I think measuring the exact speed could be really interesting, I suspect you need a dedicated DRAM tester for that with a pretty powerful CPU to get that kind of accuracy. Someone brought up they were working on something like that in the previous tester comments I think.

@BertGrink

3 жыл бұрын

I think it was Adrian Black who ran into a similar issue with some RAM chips for one of his Tandy computers where the chips were a bit slower than what the label said. This led him to initially think the chips were bad, but once a viewer had alerted him to the issue, it turned out the chips were okay.

I have just created a brushless motor controller, and it has a Hitachi display like that one. It has several pages of PID controls and other presets. The user interface uses a rotary encoder just exactly as Noel described. It's a fast effective way to implement any UI. The rotary encoder has a pushbutton built in, so you only need to hold one rotary control and you can do everything.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

I talked to Stephan about it and he's aware of that option, but apparently it's not possible because it uses more pins and the microcontroller is maxed out already. But we are getting an option for a back button, so that already will be pretty good.

@andyash5675

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab Hi Noel. Something sounds a little odd there though, because the encoder (with built in push to select/deselect switch) only needs three I/O pins, and it could do everything. You already had four switches and you're talking about a new one. I like the rotary encoder best, and I think your original observation is spot on! :-)

I just wanted to watch a minute into the video and now I watched the full. Super interesting review, thx!

I think I'm sold on this. In the future making it so it can identify unidentified chips would be a fantastic feature if it can be added! Also adding a full keypad to directly enter chip numbers would make things easier too. If/when I get one I think I'm going to try to design a 3D printable case for it.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

You won't regret it 😃 A friend of mine used a small plastic case he had for something else that's JUST the right size of the tester. So he can carry it around really easily. I believe he also changed the power supply to use batteries, so he made it 100% portable. Really neat.

The 44256 were extremely common memory chip in the early 90s. Neary every 1MB VGA card was equipped with 8 of them. The GUS classic used these chips as sample RAM. Some 286/386SX mainboards that offered DIP socket memory as well as SIMMs accepted banks made of 4 44256 (for 16 bit data) and 2 41256 (for parity) to build a bank of 512K. So indeed, the chips are exotic for you, but that's just because they are newer than the retro stuff you usually deal with.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Bah, fancy newfangled hardware! 🤣 Edit: They probably came from an Amstrad PPC or a PCW.

just a tip...you could have used the arduino board to connect to the ICSP and program the chip! (that how i programmed my z80-mbc2 a few weeks ago)..you didnt have to buy that "programmer" EDIT: i see you mentioned that at the end of the vid! cool board...thanks for the look Noel

Very impressive variety and amount of chips it can test. I would think having the ability to interface with a computer and use a simple VT52 interface would help vice relying on a LCD screen - but it does make this tester as a convenient standalone tester. An alternative tester that I recently acquired is the Tauntek IC tester that I saw reviewed by CuriousMarc YT channel. I like this tester because during testing it is able to measure current drawn by the chip and measure pin voltages are within VOL and VOH levels and even tristate levels. It’s helpful to see borderline chips that other testers may just declare pass even though the chip may pull way more current than normal. The tester reviewed here and the Tauntek tester, together, can be some great testers to both have to complement a viable work bench. Thanks for the review on this tester and highlight mistakes during the build that could easily happen to any of us.

Totally worth it. I've got a couple of machines that I would love to use this on!

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

It really is!

You jumpstarted the car without your feed on the ground, literally. Considering that you wired the clock signal but not ground (if I didn't miss another connection in the scene) I wonder what kind of loops were in your setup to work at all. A real feat!

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting. I didn't think much about it at the time. I must have lucked out with the grounds being common, probably because both devices were powered from the USB ports of the same computer.

Been there and done that with “bricking” an AVR. With an AVR you can feed its clock directly to an output pin. So I use that from a second AVR to provide a clock.

Incredible. A few days ago I was wondering if a product like this existed and this pops up in my recommended. Great video.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I guess KZread is reading minds now. That's pretty scary! 😃

I appreciate this video so much. I ordered my BOM and TOTALLY missed the screen too :) Thanks for all the great content as always. I'm a big (lurking) fan.

For better component selection ease, how about a master table with a four digit (or more if need) code for each device to be tested? Keeping the PCB markings the same for the benefit of other functions: Press "Reset" button to start the device selection process. Press the "Select" button multiple times to increase the most significant digit of the device code displayed on LCD - press "OK" button - display moves right to the next digit - press "Select" button multiple times to enter the next digit - press "OK" - and so forth. Press and HOLD the "Select" button to rapidly decrement current digit with the digit position moving left to the previous digit position after a "0" count. "Reset" button to start over.

I put one together. the build was really satisfying, it came up the first time. I used it to test some ZIP dram.

This is a brilliant device and I have nothing but praise for the amount of work the creators put into designing this super useful tool. Definitely on my list of things to get hold of! I'm thinking in terms of the user interface, having a number pad might be a good idea as the list of supported chips grows, so you could reference to a list number and jump straight to the chip you want.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed. It's truly amazing. The number pad could be quite useful, but I suspect that wouldn't work with the current microcontroller and would add quite a bit of complexity.

Great video, you actually mentioned this tester a while ago and that is how I found it. I bought the pcb and parts immediately and have build one myself a few months ago. I had to laugh when I saw the wrong zif socket early in the video, as I made the exact same mistake ;-) I flash mine with an arduino (programmed as isp) and this works fine, however you do have to disconnected the sd reader to program, so there's a tip for you and others. I would also like to mention that support from Stephan is just awesome, I have mailed him a few couple of times when I had a 'problem' and he is very helpful and all issues were solved within a day! Next to retro computers I repair arcade pcb's and this thing is a must have for this...

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Haha, I'm glad I'm not the only one making those silly mistakes 😃 And yes, Stephan has been amazing with his patience and support! Top notch!

You need a case for the tester. It is very easy to drop something (a chip maybe?) and do a short circuit on the board.

@raginranga3494

3 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same especially the amount of times they were taken over the top of the PCB

This machine is great, but it seriously needs a USB port and an associated PC application. That interface is far too clunky as it stands.

@bigbeef2654

3 жыл бұрын

no doubt? just a simple serial text based application running at 9600 baud

@joesmoe71

3 жыл бұрын

Or a keypad to directly enter chip numbers

@jameswyatt1304

3 жыл бұрын

@@bigbeef2654 Starting w/something simple through the ISP interface should be inexpensive and 9600bps would cover what I saw on the LCD. Being able to load the chip database updates from the uSD/TF card or USB, rather than AVR reload would rock.

Nice gadget and work, as always. If you are planning to use it constantly, as you already told us, I would suggest you(you know me...) to ask the manufacturer for 3 things to implement in the next update: First: For those who use the small screen, there should be an option to have a vertical or horizontal scrolling, in order to be able to see all of the available info. This might be good even for the big screens. Second: If we want to go back and choose the previous chip type, as you had the need to do, this could have been done by holding down the "next" button or using a combination of buttons, in order to go back one selection. Third: The ability to control the whole system(or even set some parameters like the fore-mentioned scrolling) from the computer, like all of the other programmers in the market do, as far as I know. I think that these thingies would be nice to have. Happy testing!

That is an amazing piece of kit that any retro restorer should have in their tool chest. From what I've seen on the creator's site though, the code does not seem to be open source. This is not a deal breaker, but I think it would allow for the community to contribute patches, like the one Noel refers to about a possible back button feature. To be absolutely clear though, I am planning on purchasing one of these for my own retro restoration projects, and having the ability to determine if memory chips and supporting logic chips are good or not is invaluable in my opinion.

Wow! As always, your videos are really fun and well done! Thanks, Noel, for showing to us so many devices and computers. This KZread channel is pure gold!

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

My pleasure!

Awesome board and step by step video. I saw the limitations on 13:00 . The only suggestion would be get rid of the button controllers and the display using the computer as a main interface via usb. That would simplify the overall board, and make it simpler.

Nice. I would love to see this evolve into a unit that can connect with an Amiga or ST, then check all common computer DIP chips, such as 68000, VIC, Pokey and so on, and have full Workbench / GEM support for easier navigation and feedback.

8:00 It may just be 4MHz, but I kind of expected some problems with signal integrity, seeing as you've only used one wire to connect the clock signal, meaning the ground return path was all the way through the pcb, ICSP connector, ribbon, programmer, USB port, the other USB port and finally the arduino's USB cable. Although if you really didn't change much between the two tries it's more likely it was just a dodgy connection. Either way, it was an interesting way to get the chip working without a high voltage programmer, so kudos to you!

The 4-line LCD would look better if you adjust the contrast. You shouldn't see boxes behind each character.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

You're right. I think they were more noticeable on camera for some reason, but I need to lower it a bit.

@Wingnut353

3 жыл бұрын

Why stop there, a nextion display with an HMI would be even better.... it could even display graphs of the chip outputs in realtime etc... honestly a ice40hk + some voltage level conversion would probably make a better tester this probably can't test that the ram is acutally performing at its specs as its too slow.

@8bitwiz_

3 жыл бұрын

He adjusted it for his eyes. The camera is at a different angle, so it saw different contrast.

@gblargg

3 жыл бұрын

Those blue and white backlit LCDs have superb contrast when adjusted right.

Very cool - glad there are things like this out there to test these old chips.

oh man, this thing needs a rotary encoder soo baaad.

@1pcfred

2 жыл бұрын

It needs a PC interface. Then you could dispense with that LCD screen and the buttons. Everyone is going to have a PC.

@MaverickM1

2 жыл бұрын

@@1pcfred fuck the pc. The win updates, firewalls, antivirus and all the rest. Standalone diag tools are always better/portable and also can be used instantly..

Been wondering when this video was coming, now I know why it took extra long! 😂

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, there were a few bumps along the way 😃

@ches74

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab turned out well but now you've got me holding out for the rotary encoder redesign. I could be waiting even longer for that. Doubt I can hold out! ;)

I've replaced that type of buttons quite a few times in my projects as they fail. Rotary digital step control would be much better. I remember buying an IC tester from Maplin back in the 90s which had a board with an ISA connector...I used it mainly for 74 series. This new board covers a lot of different types of chip. Testing is slow but probably ok for occasional use. Checking the monitor screen carefully is essential to avoid missing any errors. Previous experience programming with Arduinos would help . The Manual looks good and is probably essential and read through carefully before starting the build. Nice one, Noel.

I would just have fun building and soldering this device, it's like meditation... :D

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, it's the type of project you can relax while building it: easy components, lots of similar ones next to each other... It took a good 2-3 hours to build, but it wasn't stressing like some SMD projects can be.

@paulmichaelfreedman8334

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab Good ole THT :D

@eugenegrebionkin

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab I built the OSSC some time back... that definitely wasn't any pleasant experience. Also taking in account that I built it only using the soldering iron and without using hot air station

@DmitriyBychkov

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab Is the PCB available for order? If yes then how much is it? Is there a gerber file to order PCB myself?

@jlucasound

3 жыл бұрын

I would build it just so I can say, "I built this". :-) Maybe someone can come up with an easy mod that would enable a "backspace" function in the library? I assume it would not be easy. It would probably involve code change in the processor as well as added hardware. (?)

Great video Noel! Love to see the mistakes. Best way to learn 😁

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad that was useful. We all make those kind of mistakes sometimes 😃

Love the trouble shooting on the ATMega. I've had quite a few bricked ATMegas and never thought to introduce an external clock. Good stuff!

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! 👍

@bryanminugh9680

2 жыл бұрын

08:20 more impressive that electrical current flows in a loop, but yet only one single strand of wire connects the (temporary) pulse generator to the chip tester

I agree on using a rotary encoder. In fact most of the ones I use have a button press function built-in to them just for that reason.

I have this tester in version 1.2h and I dont regret buying it. It is very useful and today I can use it without problem (as like I´m sleeping).

Excellent video! Absolutely loved it!

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

I would use the same 4 buttons but with this actions: Up, Down, OK, Back. Reset would be just Up + Down pressed together. That would allow any navigation using a menu style interface. As always, great video Noel!

Great vid ! I can't justify to buy the components and build this board but it's nice to know it exists. Thanks for letting us know about it

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

You're welcome! It's definitely a bit on the costly side, but I know it can be really worth it for certain people depending on the projects they do.

I really wish you bloggers would give these sources a heads-up so they can either ramp up their inventories or make arrangements for a one-time bulk production run. So many great retro testing tools out there, and every time a story is run, the developer is slammed for orders within hours - leaving the rest of us to wait until production quantities are even available. It's not like these designs are pushed out to OSH Park for self-service ordering.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

I have been in touch with Stephan for a while leading up to this, but remember this is a hobby project, not his full-time job. So it's only natural that it will lead to a shortage for a while.

@8BitMuseum

3 жыл бұрын

​@@NoelsRetroLab Murphys Law: It doesn't matter how many devices you have in stock. It's never enough.

You can use any Arduino to flash other ATmegas. The sketch is in the Arduino IDE.

Well, that was fun! All you need now is a custom-designed 3D-printed case for it, and Bob's your uncle. The user interface you described (using a rotary pulser) seems like it would be do-able as a daughter card, no?

@borayurt66

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, it can easily be done with a daughter card that will solder on the existing push button pads. Very easy and non-costly way to do it, even the existing kit owners can buy that and upgrade. All it needs a software revision and that's not hard at all.

I just bought one based on this video and can't wait to put it together. Regarding the price, I spent a few weeks on a project because an SRAM chip was counterfeit. If I had this device, it would have paid for itself in time alone.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Fantastic! Great to hear. Good luck with it. Yes, it can quickly pay for itself with all the counterfeit chips going around.

Amazing work of art. Hats off to 8Bit-Museum!

That 256k x 4 DRAM is super popular in (S)VGA cards from 1988 to 1993, I have probably a hundred or so of these ICs (all inside some old (S)VGA cards)

A great bit of kit, Can't you program the atmega from an Arduino in ISP mode instead of buying another programmer ?

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, you probably could. In retrospect I should have tried that since I'm very comfortable with the Arduino, but I went down that way since it was the recommended way in the manual (even if that wasn't exactly the recommended programmer).

@leesmithsworkshop

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab This just needs the encoder wheel and graphic screen, even mono like most ender printers would improve using it by a massive amount. Perhaps the 2560 is already at it's limits for IO and memory.

@borayurt66

3 жыл бұрын

Yes you can, but you'd still need to use AVRdude in command mode since I believe the code is supplied as a HEX file. There are very cheap ICSP AVR programmers available from the chinese markets that work well too.

My grandfather on my mother's side was very headstrong and almost never read the manual on anything. Perhaps it was his education (he had a masters' degree in electronics engineering).

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

🤣 I totally get it. I'm much more of the mentality of start messing with something, and when I run into some issues, then I read the manual. Just my personality I guess.

So this kit is so retro that it ships with a real manual, amazing! For those who don't get it, old manuals were entire service manuals. :)

@8BitMuseum

3 жыл бұрын

It is not that retro. It is a pdf, not printed on paper ;)

@hannescamitz8575

3 жыл бұрын

@@8BitMuseum true! Can't have everything. 😉

My first thought on seeing this is that it could be useful for testing newly acquired chips to see if they're counterfeit before installing them. I wouldn't mind seeing how well it works for that.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly! First thing to do as soon as you get any chips in the mail.

@BradRaedel

3 жыл бұрын

That is my plan as well. I like to test all IC's before putting into inventory.

Put a mini wave tip on your iron and that surface mount IC is one of the easiest things to put on there - literally done in under a minute

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

That's the theory. But then you need to line it perfectly, and check for shorts, and check that every pin is perfectly touching the pad... 😃 I actually haven't done anything quite that small yet, but I'm sure I will soon.

@nickwallette6201

3 жыл бұрын

When you try, and get super frustrated with all the bridging and janky bonds, don't forget: MORE FLUX. :-D Lots of liquid flux and and copper braid to clean up. Then you'll be all set, and TH parts will be the ones you start to dread. :-)

@1pcfred

2 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab The best way is a solder mask, solder paste and a hot plate. Scratch that the best way is to have the board come with the part soldered to it. They definitely did it the former way at the board house though.

Have you used the CUSTOM option, a video on programming a custom chip would be good and very helpful

I know this is 2 years ago but the best solution would be a usb port and software running on an external pc to type in the chip name you’re looking for and control of all the functions

I really wish I had discovered my interest in electrical and computer engineering before I started college 3 yrs ago.

Nice. The common TL866 programmer also tests many logic IC’s and memory chips, but this device looks like it also covers more of the earlier memory chips. Looks like a fun project to add to my project list queue. ;)

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly. And I think the TL programmer doesn't test DRAMs at all, right? I need to get the latest update to be sure.

@8BitMuseum

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab and it only also tests SRAMs 32k x 8 up. But it can burn EPROMs and thousands of other devices, so other target group.

@gregclare

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab Yes, latest version tests 285 logic devices, and only 10 SRAM’s starting from the 6116 (no earlier devices). No DRAM tests supported. Of course the TL866 is primarily a Programmer, supporting over 16,000 devices. The few devices it tests is just a bonus. Strangely, the CMOS and TTL logic list also includes devices 6821 (Motorola PIA ?!?), and 8155, 8255, 8259, 8279 ? Not sure I want to stick one of my PIA’s in there to see if it tests it. LOL

I was on the fence until the ROM trick , very cool device.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

It is! And I feel I didn't even show half of what it can do. There's a lot more than that hidden in the menus.

Excellent video and explanation. Thank you!

Very cool tester! Thanks for reviewing it!! Something more to add to my Christmas list! :)

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

You're welcome! It's such a great piece of kit. You'll love it 😃

I wish I had that chip tester years ago. In order to test ICs I'd always have to build some circuit on a breadboard.

Awesome video and great inspiration. OK, OK, I admit I've been putting off putting this together for a year!!! I am going to go start right now... Until I inevitably get to the point where I ordered the wrong part or programmer.

13:30 A rotary encoder with a clickable button when you push it and an added back button, just because I like a good rotary encoder with a click :D

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

I'm all for clicks (says as he types this on a mechanical keyboard 😃).

@nicwilson89

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab I love a good mechanical keyboard. Maybe use a single mechanical clicky switch for a nice back button, or is that going a bit too far :D

Terrific video...I learned more from your errors than I would have otherwise.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

I'm glad my errors were good for something! 😃

Interesting, that works out to about USD$130, which is not a lot less than I paid for my Innoventions RAMCheck. Granted that only came with the default module adapter, so you'd need a lot of different adapters to test other kinds of memory, including chip memory, so that would add up (if you can even find them). The main advantage of the RAMCheck is that it also tests performance, not just functionality, so if the chips on your SIMM are marked 60ns, it will tell you whether it meets that performance or not. I've actually found SIMMs marked 60ns performing at 50ns speeds with no errors. The other advantage is it's a lot quicker. It can perform a whole lot more tests in less than a couple of minutes, and that's on a multi-MB SIMM, not a single chip with 256Kbits. Anyway, the Retro Chip Tester is probably better value than an Innoventions tester, since they're not easy to come by. I should probably look into getting one, if nothing more than to test all the chip memory I've got on faulty boards. At least that would rule out a RAM issue with those boards.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting, I wasn't aware of that RAMCheck. The fact that it measures performance means it has to be a lot more powerful, so that's certainly a unique feature the Retro Chip Tester couldn't really do. But I agree that it's a fantastic device for the money, which may seem a lot at first sight, but it really isn't given all it does.

@UpLateGeek

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab Oh yeah, and testers like the RAMCheck cost thousands new, so the fact that the Retro Chip Tester isn't as quick definitely isn't a bad compromise.

This device looks amazing! Not just for retro computing, but just general repair. Are there any plans to make this more commercially available globally?

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

It is an amazing device! 😃 Stephan might pitch in, but this is not his primary business, so I doubt he'll make it more commercially available. However, if there's a lot of demand, I wonder if it would be worth of him to team up with some small company to produce kits.

This looks pretty great, but as someone who has no issue with hand soldering surface mount, I would prefer a more compact SMD version. Agreed about the rotary input 100%

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

I can see how an SMD version would be more convenient for people with experience (or to assemble automatically) but this is clearly more approachable by more people. Other than the sourcing part, assembling it was really easy, so it's not even a bad second or third soldering project 😃

Great tool, great review. Thank you. I was aware of this kit, even exchanged a few msgs with its designer last year. I only fix and maintain my modest collection of ZX Spectrums, so a bit on the expensive side for me, but yet, as you have already said, it is a very valuable tool for those who make money doing retro repairs, well worth the price for them, I wouldn't think twice if I were one. You are right on the idea of a rotary switch, I am sure the designer will consider that on the next hardware revision. Also since now you are used to buying parts twice :-) you should get a yellow positive image 4x20 LCD for that. Totally pin compatible, much better contrast and viewing angle, just a little more on the price tag but worth it. I've stopped using these "blue" LCDs on my projects long time ago, they are just a waste of money.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I think a rotary input is out of the question because the microcontroller is maxed out as far as pins. So it would have to be a significantly different revision. But that would be fantastic. You're right about the screen. You're probably talking about the OLED ones, right? I looked into it, but they're insanely expensive at the moment (around 40€).

@borayurt66

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab No, not the OLED ones, same screen, same technology but positive image and yellow/green backlight. A graphic OLED screen will require too much change in code, there are OLED equivalents to that dot matrix screen but they are too expensive. Adding a rotary encoder will not require any extra pins, there are IO pins already assigned to those push buttons, they can be used for the rotary encoder and even sparing a couple of pins. All it needs is a daughter board to solder on the relevant section of the PCB to connect to those pins and some code change for a rotary driven menu system. This is the LCD I am talking about: www.aliexpress.com/item/32679234720.html Here is a better link, even the sales photo shows just how much better is the positive image ones: www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001694530172.html

@8BitMuseum

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab With a little luck you can get one under 20 EUR. This is 22 EUR www.aliexpress.com/item/32929491915.html

I've also build the tester, great device and nice support/development/updates from Stephan S.

Serial interface would be ideal interface. Then you could just type in a value for each supported chip, or even make an interface.

Looks fantastic! Ah, I see silicon-ark sells it =D

Cool test gear. I would enjoy building it, but would have very little use for it. I repair, (or sometimes adapt and break), Spectrums, so I'm already sorted for test equipment for them. :)

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly. If you're mostly doing one platform, it's probably total overkill.

I wonder how this compares to the ubiquitous TL866II+ programmer, which can also test a wide variety of chips?

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

The TL866II+ is mostly an EPROM programmer/reader that also happens to test 74xx logic. It doesn't do any DRAM/SRAM testing as far as I know, so right there it's quite different. It probably doesn't do many other other chip types this tester can do. And this one doesn't program EPROMs, so you kind of need both 😃

@MattKasdorf

3 жыл бұрын

The simplest way to describe the two is that this kit is completely standalone, and the USB TL866II+ requires a computer. That said I'd really like to see the existing (Linux) TL866II+ software extended to include testing. D'oh, beaten by the man himself by two minutes 😮

@DmitriyBychkov

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab It can test SRAM chips.

Looks like the chip selection could use a rotary encoder with some logic for scrolling fast.

@fer662

3 жыл бұрын

Annnd you. just said that

@1pcfred

2 жыл бұрын

I think the whole unit would improve with a PC interface and have the UI on a PC screen. You basically need a PC to make the thing. So why not a PC to use it?

7:55 where is the ground reference for the clock signal from the arduino?

Super & great analysis. Nice comments to help to improve the design.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! 👍

Excellent work. Very cool chip tester. I agree, it looks to be geared more towards professionals or serious hobbyist. I'd consider making it if it were a full kit and software updating wasn't so complex. For now, I'll just stick with the basic chip testers.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Makes sense. It's definitely not everybody, although you do have quite a few different machines so you would benefit from it at least from that angle.

@BertGrink

3 жыл бұрын

Excellent device, I agree, but for me who only need to test a few types if ICs (mainly a bunch of 41256 DRAMs for expanding a Commodore 1750 REU to 2MB), it´s difficult to justify the cost and effort.

Excelente placa en formato modular y con un manual que explica desde como armarla hasta como usarla, me recuerda mucho al homebrew computer club y la filosofia de armar las cosas uno mismo sabiendo como funcionan y dejandolas abiertas para modificarlas y expandirlas, gran video!

Rotary encoders are expensive! The button setup would be fine but I agree, there should be a back button. Some combination could be added with a firmware update I'm sure. Might be nice to even let you put the menu / chip data on the SD card so you can select only the chips you want to test from a list on your computer to make it more convenient. Submenus kinda already exist with the jump function. A simple (short) test option would be nice though. A feature that would be nice would be load testing the outputs / current draw during idle and usage. That could turn this from hobbyist diagnostic tool to industrial engineering sample analyzer real fast. Real wishful thinking here but writing E/E/PROM chips would definitely be in the cards for this and I don't think it would be that hard to verify contents for them either. This could be an extremely powerful tool if it's given just a few extras!

Very nice! Great that there’s a Reichelt shopping cart :) and that documentation is very impressive. I also tend to handle manuals as troubleshooting guides :) Life’s too short to read manuals :) And ironically I am one of those developers that writes tons of documents and designs. Because I tend to forget easily. But nobody reads them and I can’t be angry, because that would be hypocritical:)

Dang it Stefan!! Another cool project I can't make.

I have been all over the internet. Where does one get a parts list and determine what parts are needed to build this thing. Can a parts kit be found, or do you need to part it out one part at a time?

@8BitMuseum

Жыл бұрын

Easiest is to contact the developer. ;)

Making "mistakes" in public helps others approach this sort of project with more confidence. Missteps are okay and part of the journey. The Backbit has a rotary controller, and I use it several times a week. I agree that being able to go backward is a good interface choice. You've GOT to admire the work he put into this thing, though. These kinds of projects make me want to be better in many areas. Excellent job on this video Noel.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I'm glad you liked it, mistakes and all 😃 And yes, Stephan has done an amazing job with this, and he keeps improving it week after week.

Where do I go to buy the 2 boards, and the CORRECT ZIF Socket? I hope the designer adds being able to backup on a chip selection!

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

The PCBs you can order them directly from the designer (first link in description). The ZIF socket I found it from aliexpress.com/item/32831052786.html Good luck!

@tubeDude48

3 жыл бұрын

@@NoelsRetroLab - Ordered the sockets, thanks! BUT, went to designers site and could not find where to order the board's! It just kept running me around in circles!!

I wonder if you could have also lowered the clock speed the Programmer was talking to the ATMega with the -B parameter. That saved me when I had incorrect fuses from the factory on a different AVR. Also there's a GUI app for it called AVRDUDESS. And I don't mean the BAUD Rate (-b), I mean the Bit clock!

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Oh interesting. I don't know! This was my first time doing something like that, but I'll keep it in mind in case that happens again. Thanks for the tip.

This is a very cool tool. It would be nice to not have to worry about finding donor chips to test things.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely. And, if you end up buying things from Aliexpress, you can test them as soon as you get them home quite easily.

WOW! As we say in Denmark... _"Hold du kæft"_ and take my money! I need one of these asap!! BTW: Great video! and great the you showed your misstakes. You learn a lot from that. Instans subscriber!

Didn't need to buy that ISP programmer if you had an uno... Would be neat to have an FTDI on there to interface with. With so many chips to test, a simple program with drop down menus and a search function would be amazing. Documentation and control could be combined into one program.

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, you're right. I went with the ISP just because it was the most recommended method, but the Arduino would have been fine (or better for me even).

Sometimes I wish there was more willingness to surface mount soldering in projects like this. Something like that chip would not be massively difficult to solder, it is just another skill to learn, and a useful skill at that. Why should we leave all surface-mount work to those big assembly plants? :) I get that it wouldn't be for everyone so can't fault the creators of this project, but still to me it feels like a shame. Its a self assembly kit, let us self assemble :) Excellent overview Noel, as always!

@NoelsRetroLab

3 жыл бұрын

You're right that's a skill, but it's one that is harder to acquire and comes with practice and time. I'd be willing to do that now, but probably not 2-3 years ago. If he's trying to reach as many people as possible, through-hole is still the way to go (although this project is specialized enough that maybe assuming SMD soldering skills would be reasonable).

@1pcfred

2 жыл бұрын

Because surface mount is not hobbyist friendly. The industry did not come up with surface mount to make our lives better. I can assure you of that. The stuff absolutely sucks for prototyping. It sucks to try to salvage it too. Basically SMT sucks all around for electronics experimenters. But you do you.

So out of curiosity, what was that HM486*** chip's entire part number? I ask because the Hitachi HM4864-2, HM4864-3, HM4864P-2 and HM4864P-3 chips are slightly different from the Texas Instruments TMS4164-15NL you started with. They have 128 row address strobe cycles, as opposed to the 256 of the TMS parts, so I wonder if that affected the test outcome?

Excellent video :D This would be so great to test ram and different chips. I will ask if texelec can build and sell these preassembled.