I love the idea of a CVT working like a CVT was designed (at least in eco mode)

@EngineeringExplained

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I wish the user modes gave you a bit more control over transmission operation and allowed for the driver to pick how it operates, because there are not only efficiency, but also performance advantages to be had if it operates like a CVT can.

@zungaloca

Жыл бұрын

1000000% the same

@petrkubena

Жыл бұрын

Probably this is part of the reason why it still has worse economy figures.

@oneninerniner3427

Жыл бұрын

@@petrkubena yeah but one-1 mile per gallon? I'd say they have pretty much closed the gap there, don't yah think?

@greentjmtl

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, my Subaru is from before they added the fake shifts and when I punch it, it shoots up to rock steady 5600 RPM and hauls butt, and it's super smooth for daily driving.

I love the concept of CVTs; boy was I disappointed when I found out that in nearly every actual use of a CVT in a vehicle, they do wonky inefficient power-reducing things just to make them "seem" more like a traditional transmission to the user. When I put my foot down, I want that needle to immediately jump to peak power RPM and stay there until I let off, and when I'm cruising efficiently I want those RPMs as low as possible for the current power demand.

@AustiBomb33

Жыл бұрын

Yeah. Kinda like electric cars with fake engine noise, just why? Why do we need go dress up our new tech to look like old tech?

@housco11

Жыл бұрын

Try a Subaru. There are 5 on my family. In the real everyday world, sometimes in heavy rush hour traffic, there is nothing to compare. Plus, using the active cruise control makes things a lot different. We are on year 2.023 I used to drive and love stick shifts, but not anymore.

@SupraSav

Жыл бұрын

@@housco11 On the plus side; at least if you go deaf you won't miss hearing high revving down-shifts, induction noises or the sound of your vehicle getting stolen, as automatics are FAR more prone to car theft! But now you have features like back up cameras, lane assist and adaptive cruise control! All the things you need to pay less attention while driving - perfect!

@tocreatee3585

Жыл бұрын

they work quite well actually on small cars.

@BeastModeXCIII

Жыл бұрын

My rav4 prime is like that more or less and combined with the electric motor helping, it does just that: responsive power

One thing we discovered while researching/tuning CVTs for drag racing is there is a substantial loss in efficiency while it is continuously shifting, especially at WOT. What actually happened is while the clutches are shifting gear ratios (constantly) and the belt is moving up and down in the clutch sheaves there is both an increase in friction and a small amount of slippage that occurs. As a result, you lose about 10-15% in efficiency while the CVT is (constantly) shifting. You do get the benefit from running the engine at the optimal rpm for power (or efficiency if going for best fuel economy) but we found that isn't enough to overcome the loss in efficiency. By configuring the CVT to behave as if it had discrete gears (we found 7 to 10 virtual gears was best) we were able to shave off over 0.4 seconds at the drag strip. If Subaru is making their CVT behave as if it has discrete gears during WOT acceleration, I would bet this is for the same reason we did it - quickest acceleration. One of the big reasons you can do better with virtual fixed gear ratios is you can get away with less clamping force in the sheaves. The slippage that naturally occurs while a CVT shifts gears requires a good ~20% greater clamping force in order to control this slippage.

@AySz88

Жыл бұрын

Just curious, who is "we"? Is this a quote from somewhere?

@Forke13

Жыл бұрын

And what's WOT? World of Tanks?

@AySz88

Жыл бұрын

​@@Forke13 If you're not just making a pun, I'm guessing "wide open throttle".

@Forke13

Жыл бұрын

@@AySz88 Thanks. I really don't get abbreviations.

@Slider68

Жыл бұрын

@@AySz88 We is a bunch of local guys racing their ATVs and snowmobiles and spending a lot of money and time optimizing their CVTs, plus a local university research team that confirmed what we found with automotive CVTs from around 2015. A few of the guys even have CVT dynos, with electric motors providing the input and variable load generators providing the dynamic load. Some CVTs might not lose as much power and efficiency while shifting but it does make sense that all are more efficient while fixed at a constant gear ratio.

This is encouraging, but my main concern is still long-term CVT durability, and the need for meticulous maintenance (likely much more often than what Subaru prescribes), especially when accommodating relatively-high output. That is what I'd like to learn about from an engineer.

@Gitau_Kenn

4 ай бұрын

Meticulous maintenance? Like changing CVT fluid? There's nothing else you can do to the CVT.

@Brisco_County_Jr

3 ай бұрын

​​@@Gitau_Kennchanging that fluid way more often than an auto. But why in the hell is anyone considering a manual for a car like this? Way more fun and engaging.

As a Subaru tech, I 100% agree. I was impressed with the cvt on the new WRX. It’s much improved over the last generation. That being said, reliability is another factor.

@ranran2218

Жыл бұрын

Wrx reliability is not great to begin with.

@Mr.Marbles

Жыл бұрын

Is it really that much worse? I guess the belt has to be replaced right?

@moshet842

Жыл бұрын

@@Mr.Marbles Well, that's the problem. It can't be replaced.

@robertwalters8689

Жыл бұрын

@@Mr.Marbles you mean replace the transmission? Lol

@ubacow7109

Жыл бұрын

CVT's seem to be reliable enough imo~ Maybe not in Nissan/Jatco's case but everyone else seems to do just fine w/ their CVT's. Ive had less CVT issues than DCT ones in my experience.

I actually hate the fake gear ratio thing it completely defeats the purpose of a cvt. One reason I hate driving automatics is that you can't predict when they're going to shift and jerk the car especially around a corner so a cvt is actually preferable in this regard.

@Schmuly

Жыл бұрын

I've never had a problem predicting when my car was going to shift and it also doesn't jerk the car enough to cause any upset in its balance in my experience

@JustinDaniels

Жыл бұрын

@@Schmuly You've clearly never driven a 6-speed automatic transmission V6 Honda Accord then...

@Nick_Gir

Жыл бұрын

@@JustinDaniels yeah sorry not everyone drives that kind of garbage.

@JustinDaniels

Жыл бұрын

@@Nick_Gir The car is certainly not garbage, or eIse I wouldn't have spent over $25,000 recently to get a 2017 V6 Honda Accord Coupe. It's a decent car overall. However, the transmission is 100% garbage. Constantly aggressively downshifting and engine braking as soon as I let off of the gas pedal, and hesitating between gears 5 and 6 when driving at 40mph.

@Nick_Gir

Жыл бұрын

@@JustinDaniels lmfao you can tell yourself it's not garbage all you want but you bought trash. Not saying my choice is better than yours but I kinda am saying that.

Fun fact: Japan's home grown battle tank uses a CVT, allowing it to drive in reverse to get back behind cover after a shot faster than any other main battle tank.

It's a good thing for folks like me with disabilities that the auto version of this car doesn't suck! I really miss driving manual from my able-bodied days, but the reality is that my spine isn't gonna start working again. So cars that are engaging with an automatic are excellent for accessibility, since I can still drive them with hand controls. Edit: to clarify I drive a Tesla Model 3 LR now and used to drive a '06 Miata with a 5 speed. The Tesla is less engaging, but it's good enough for me. I'm just overall glad there's effort going into experiences that everyone can use, whenever they're EV or dual clutch or CVT or slushbox.

@ALMX5DP

Жыл бұрын

Agreed, i think transmission technology has been the most underrated aspect of overall vehicle performance in recent years. Autos used to be considered the worst of the worst, but have leapfrogged manuals so dramatically over just the past 10-15 years.

@ScarKnoturbed

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree with that 💯

@charliemaybe

Жыл бұрын

@@ALMX5DP I mean autos are super good, but cvts arent great. My experiance with the cvt in cars is with the 2015 outback where it is unresponsive, slow, and just a washy feeling in the pedal. I dont know about modern cvts, but ones even 3 years ago, were terrible especially compared to manuals and good autos. There are great autos, just not the cvt.

@liquidwombat

Жыл бұрын

Just wanted to chime in, I have a WRX GT and it is fantastic. If you put the car in sport# mode, it hangs on to revs and it down shifts super aggressively. It is honestly better than any dual clutch I’ve driven in fully automatic mode.

@liquidwombat

Жыл бұрын

@@charliemaybe did you even watch the video you’re commenting on?

While I don't hate the way the CVT feels like in my Impreza I did hate having to replace the entire transmission at 70,000 miles. They are prone to mechanical failures.

@514aam

Жыл бұрын

Did you change the fluid at 50k? If not, that's your fault.

@TheBilliardCorner

Жыл бұрын

It’s “lifetime” fluid per factory Subaru factory specs.

@514aam

Жыл бұрын

@@TheBilliardCorner only in the US, every other country? Nope

@jusbdeone

Жыл бұрын

CVT is meant to be driven gently.

@glow4417

Жыл бұрын

That's why, "Subaru has Not proven everyone wrong with CVT`s". Same thing happened with me, with a CVT, had to replace the whole thing. With that said, I don't think CVT`s excel in the area of durability.

Great job on the zoom/desat effect when switching subjects or points. It focuses the viewer in on the next point very well.

CVT in my six cyl subi died at 62,000 miles. Subaru replaced it under warranty, but I lost my faith in them. Also have a Nissan Rogue with a CVT that I've started replacing the fluid in routinely in an attempt to get more than 70,000 miles out of the belt. Also picked up a RAV4 hybrid with an eCVT and think it is a far superior mechanical system. The new subi Crosstrek hybrid is using a variation of the Toyota eCVT. The eCVT has no belts, only gears on gears. My advice for belt based CVT owners - never manually shift.

A CVT feature I'd love to try is a manual ratio lever - kind of like a prop pitch lever in an airplane. Lever in low, pin the throttle, and manually push the lever forward for higher ratios as the car accelerates. Like a fretless bass - you can pick off tune ratios if that's your mood or learn to fine tune the ratio for your driving style. Thoughts?

@Waccoon

Жыл бұрын

I explored this idea when I was making a presentation on IVT transmissions in college over 25 years ago. In practice, it would be a LOT harder to drive than you think, so it would need to be fully computer controlled -- just like a CVT.

@jaybee2344

Жыл бұрын

Your talking about a hydrostatic drive. In the 70s and 80s garden tractor brands started doing the idea. Pick your throttle amount then adjust the vehicle speed by a lever.

@michaelclements4664

Жыл бұрын

If the manual CVT control lever set a particular engine RPM, like the prop pitch lever in an airplane, it would be low driver workload, easy to drive. Full forward = max RPM = max power. Leave it there and do whatever you want with the gas pedal, when you floor it, it will instantly give max acceleration for whatever speed you're going. Pull it back to peak economy RPM (perhaps 1800 RPM), and you're getting peak fuel economy for whatever speed you're driving. That would be unique and fun.

@bearwithit

Жыл бұрын

Nice, I'm a fretless guy

@error.418

Жыл бұрын

@@bearwithit glad your anxiety is low enough that you don't have to fret

The problem with cvts isn’t necessarily performance (often is), but rather their tendency to grenade.

@MystElectric

Жыл бұрын

My 2015 WRX CVT died under stock power at 140k km, hopefully this new one does better.

@514aam

Жыл бұрын

@@MystElectric did you change the fluid every 50k?

@ajhurtekant8364

Жыл бұрын

Often it’s the maintenance. If everyone changed their cvt fluid as religiously as they change their oil they would last longer.

@MystElectric

Жыл бұрын

@@514aam Changed fluid at 105k km (when I purchased the car)

@MystElectric

Жыл бұрын

@@ajhurtekant8364 Yes but when the manufacturer says its a lifetime fluid and some dealerships will even refuse to change the fluid. It falls on manufacturer not the customer for the failed units (which is also why they have such a long extended warranty on them now)

To me, the traditional shifting with a CVT is a step back to the potential benefit of the CVT.

@ryanhill906

Жыл бұрын

I agree, it's going to make you feel more acceleration, but the peaks could be cancelled out by the RPM loss in shifting. A lower, but steady RPM would theoretically produce the same average power while using less fuel to do it!

@kennydee8296

11 ай бұрын

downhill control engine braking is possible with downshifts

@tissuepaper9962

11 ай бұрын

​@@ryanhill906 there's a big loss in efficiency while the transmission is changing ratio. changing the gear ratio in steps means that the belt spends much less time slipping.

My old Jeep Patriot had CVT. I lovingly referred to it as a “city jeep”, but it still made for a fun camping trip. RIP Patty. I still love you.

I understand they won't take full advantage, because customers will whine about the "no gears" feeling. But I wish they would let you select a mode that would let the transmission run that way if you wanted to. Completely optimized for economy at low throttle settings, and for power delivery at high throttle settings, with a linear transition between those things across the mid-throttle range. Maybe I wouldn't use that mode all the time, but it might be nice to use it sometimes.

@StephenGillie

Жыл бұрын

My Camry Hybrid's eCVT has exactly this in the Eco, Normal, and Power buttons. Eco is great in snow, offroad, and parking lots & neighborhoods. (20 is plenty.) Power is great on dry pavement and freeway but has too much torque for rain and I spin out too often. Normal for city driving and rainy days.

@HughCStevenson1

11 ай бұрын

My 6 yo Impreza does that almost as described. At partial accelerator setting it optimizes efficiency and at full accel it optimizes power. Ideally the accelerator should be a "power setting" input to a control system. You dial up the power you want and it gives that power (or as much as it can) in the most efficient way possible. The Impreza almost does this, I have heard that the newer Levorg does it exactly. No need for extra buttons and stuff!

@xtnuser5338

11 ай бұрын

@@HughCStevenson1 I know that's how modern Volkswagons work. The potentiometer on the throttle pedal sends a signal to the computer, which the computer interprets as a percentage of torque demanded. Then the computer tries to make the engine deliver that torque value. The details are over my head, but that's what's going on. I suspect its similar logic in most, if not all, modern cars.

@Theywaswrong

8 ай бұрын

Let a buyer choose between the crap CVT or a conventional automatic.

I love CVT when it stays in one gear and it doesn't fake shift.

@1300l

Жыл бұрын

I love when CVT is not in my car ;)

@ebels3

Жыл бұрын

I hate the fake shifting. That's not how the transmission is supposed to work. Might as well use an automatic if you want defined gears like that. Toyota still makes a pretty good CVT. I know the Mitsubishi CVTs worked properly back when they first came out, but I am not sure on their reliability.

@Mecharuva

Жыл бұрын

Technically that would be “rolling through infinitely many gears” if it’s accelerating but not fake shifting.

@alejogonzalez4997

Жыл бұрын

@@ebels3 The Toyota CVT does the fake shifting when you fully press the peddal, RPM go up to redline and then drop. I just want my transmition to work at is fullest when I am passing that truck in the highway. At least in economy driving it works wondefully, and the launch gear works well too.

@ebels3

Жыл бұрын

@@alejogonzalez4997 That's how an CVT is supposed to work. It doesn't shift gear ratios, it keep the engine at max power and efficiency. The engine will go to redline and slowly drop. The first gear for launching IS awesome.

Had a 2015 WRX with CVT that was just a casual daily driver. Twice the transmission had to be replaced, once was under warranty and the second I passed on down the road to the dealership that had no idea what I was trading in. Great cars, in my luck terrible transmission.

@SR-ry6hs

Жыл бұрын

There you go, nail, head. This is something I've seen missing from engineering explained videos. What about the second, or third owner? What about longevity? How does it compare over time. Not everyone can afford brand new cars. He's missing probably 1/2 of his base.

@Photobombin

Жыл бұрын

@@SR-ry6hs I like Subaru's I've owned many. The only reason I bought a CVT WRX was because all I own is manual sports cars and the wife wanted something sporty she could drive so we bought a 2015 model in 2016. It was a 1 owner car and I got it with 25,000 miles on it. The CVT didn't make it to 42k miles before it had to be replaced. While I owned it, it was never beat on and I was always up on every single maintenance item as I like to keep all my cars in top tip shape. I got rid of it at 85k miles cause the CVT was going out again and this time it wasn't under warranty and the Subaru dealership wanted like $12k to replace it. No thanks.

@wiciuwiciu2783

Жыл бұрын

@@SR-ry6hs 1/2 only in US where new cars are funny cheap. Where I live, for such an WRX you need to pay 2 years of income. Of WHOLE income (not just the savings) or take loan for 10-15 years ;)

@wb3191

Жыл бұрын

I have a '15, I was at least the 2nd owner. Had some tasteful mods and I got a VERY good deal since I worked at the dealership. I haven't had a single issue out of the trans. I pick up nails in my tires like I have a magnet hanging in front of the wheels but thats about it. It has about 70K miles so far, I drive it like a pissed off teenager, no matter how hard I try to be an adult(I'm 43 and ashamed). I wish I had held out for a manual to come thru but my wife can drive this if needed. I've heard the CVT trans is kinda hit/miss with the durability. That being said, I wouldn't buy it again.

@Photobombin

Жыл бұрын

@@wb3191 glad to hear it’s held up. I hear ya on the nail magnet 😂 I was always getting punctures as well but that’s just the nature of the beast sometimes.

I have a '19 Outback 3.6R (so it has the CVT). My only two complaints with the CVT is the uneven torque application during low speed acceleration, and the minor exhaust drone on the freeway. The second is not so much on Subaru as on me because I replaced the factory mufflers with Nameless 5" axle-back mufflers. The plus side is that on hard acceleration and above 3500rpms it sounds like a Porsche flat six.

The only problem I have with CVTs is their (perceived) reliability. Hopefully the newer generations of them have solved those issues but I'm not going to put down $40k+ to find out. On another note, I really like the eCVT that Toyota uses. It's a super clever and interesting design and it would be great to get a video on how it works.

@wigletron2846

Жыл бұрын

Subaru's CVTs aren't bad but they recommend no maintenance. That means it most likely won't last you too long without regular fluid changes. Edit: I believe Hyundai/kia CVTs are similar to the Toyota eCVT. It has a planetary 1st gear then goes to CVT.

@graham1034

Жыл бұрын

@@wigletron2846 Toyota also has long recommended service intervals, which I think will harm the lifespan of their vehicles. E.g. they don't recommend a first oil change until 10k miles.

@wigletron2846

Жыл бұрын

@@graham1034 a lot of manufacturers are recommending 10k oil changes now which is crazy. Its planned obsolescence imo. They don't want people driving cars for 200k miles anymore.

@NBSV1

Жыл бұрын

They base the service intervals pretty much on how little can be done and still make it to the end of the warranty. If nearly all of them can make it without any servicing then they sell that as a feature. Regardless of that also meaning that the trans will fail not long after warranty. Some even make them nearly unserviceable where changing fluid and filters takes much more work than it should if it's even something a home mechanic can reasonably do.

@DingoZed

11 ай бұрын

Nissan's awful Jatco CVT gave all other CVTs a bad reputation. Jatco makes great transmissions outside CVTs.... but their CVT reliability is embarrassing.

The main problem with CVT: maintenance cost nightmare and low overall transmission life.

@iddqd339

Жыл бұрын

Theoretically, a CVT can be made more durable than a traditional toothed transmission, with no wearable parts (other than fluid). In practice, nissan keeps trying to cut costs in areas it shouldn't, so it ends up borking after like 50k. Also the dumbass marketing campaign of "lifetime" fluid.

@Erdie5

Жыл бұрын

@@iddqd339 The last bit is the kicker. Nearly every manufacturer says the fluid is lifetime. However, there's always an asterisk. For "severe duty" it's every 30k miles. And "severe" duty is basically anyone who either A.) Doesn't drive 100% highway miles (i.e. everyone) or B.) people who live in a state that gets to 32F (nearly everyone). With such low requirements to qualify as severe, why even bother with the lifetime schtick? It's causing more harm than good.

@iddqd339

Жыл бұрын

@@Erdie5 I suspect some OEM, to whom poor reliability is seen as a feature (eg: BMW or Mercedes) started advertising lifetime fluids, and then everyone else's marketing department could not allow for a transmission fluid lifespan gap.

As someone with manual, CVT and conventional autos, the CVT is confusing to drive in winter. Aside from a blinking traction control light, it's tough to know whether you've lost traction or it's just deciding to increase revs. With manual or conventional autos you at least know that RPM is proportional to speed.

Im coming up to 2 months ownership of my wrx rs cvt (mid spec in Australia) and couldnt be happier with selecting the cvt. Being almost 50 and driving manuals all my life ive paid my penance and its time to relax a little. Coming from a previous gen manual rex I think the cvt here is exceptional. In comfort mode it just cruises along nicely and particularly in heavy traffic its so good not to have that jerky start stop motion that you can get from traditional autos. Then is sport# it is a beast. You can select to have your revs exactly where you want them at any time and the power is instant. Torque right across the powerband and responsiveness that matches any DCT ive driven. Like the video said its easy to just slag off the CVT, and mostly it comes from a a background of simple ignorance.

@EastWood2004

Жыл бұрын

I just got an Audi RS3 and quite happy with it. I have owned several dual clutch cars including PDK, I wonder how the CVT makes difference from the DCT in sports driving.

@longdang3379

Жыл бұрын

how is the nvh? i know not to expect much from these types of cars... but itd be nice to know if its not too terrible

@bfsf2010

8 ай бұрын

Agreed with your points as I'm still the current owner of MY16 Rexy (WRB Premium model). S-mode is enough to pull away someone else who pushed me under non-sense distance. I-mode has capable to save fuel consumption for cruising. I rarely to choose S# as it makes the rexy like a bull even I throttle the pedal a little bit. For my own opinion, I won't use Lineartronic for track day unless you installed CVT cooler (seems the kit at Super Autobacs, Tokyo in 2019) Note: I'm still driving manual car in daily :)

@somestuffithoughtyoumightl6985

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for this. I rented a BRZ last week and had a great time. However, I live near the city and need a daily for work. Manual sucks in stop and go traffic. Years ago, slow shifting autos didn't hold a candle to the fun of a manual and so I went manual. Just like some won't get a DCT, the same won't get a CVT, but there is no longer a performance benefit to manual. Just like a loud exhaust, manual doesn't make the car faster, so it's not necessary. If Subie can make a CVT that locks up like a DCT, then we have the best of both worlds.

Your videos are some of the only "longer" videos that I watch without some form of skipping. Great engagement, helpful explanation of concepts and great quality overall. Thank you!

I'd love to try a CVT just doing its thing. I've watched many of your videos on CVTs but today's the first time I've heard (or maybe i just didn't pay attention earlier) that you can be accelerating and the rpms be going down, that's so interesting.

@O8Zen

Жыл бұрын

Just drive a Prius bro

@Lyndeno

Жыл бұрын

Our Impreza does the virtual gear thing when accelerating hard, but when driving moderately it is quite cool. When accelerating it drops the rpm but it just keeps pulling with no interruption

@shikcheese3234

Ай бұрын

Drive a utv or snowmobile.

My only hangup on CVTs is their reputation for not lasting…I don’t think you brought up long-term potential issues

@questioner1596

Жыл бұрын

I don't know that most dual clutches are much better

@JustinDaniels

Жыл бұрын

@@questioner1596 Traditional automatic transmissions and traditional manual transmissions are still the way to go for reliability.

@blaineedwards8078

Жыл бұрын

Well Luke Duke, either you've been freeze-dried or doing hard time in a cave, but the way of the world now and for quite some time is virtually nothing, in regard to public consumer purchase, is engineered and manufactured for true longevity. This goes from everything to light bulbs, clothing, appliances, electronics, hardware, and yes....especially auto parts. Of course, there are always a few exceptions, but I'm talking about the overall global standard of quality production, or to clarify, the lack thereof. It's not in the best interests and especially profit margin of any of these corporations to make their products truly over-engineered and bulletproof.

@stephenj4937

Жыл бұрын

@@blaineedwards8078 I strongly disagree. Cars last vastly longer than they used to, and the average age of vehicles on the road is increasing over time, not decreasing. In the '80s if a car made it to 100k it was seen as a true accomplishment. Now, everyone expects a car to hit 200k with no major issues.

@dobledekersoulwrekr

Жыл бұрын

Cvts need to be more repairable. Then they wouldn't be so feared. If you have one break, the only option is to replace it, and that's usually 5 to 8 grand

Great video! I was all ready to get a 2022 WRX STI ... then they announced they weren't making one any more. *Dreams Crushed*

I love how this channel called Engineering Explained never even explained what a CVT is or what the acronym stands for 5 minutes in

Didn't really address the main complaint I see people having with CVT which is basically that it doesn't last and isn't particularly rebuildable when it does go out.

@squirrelzar

Жыл бұрын

Not a fair claim right now, this is a refreshed cvt and we have 0 data to indicate that they die or not

It'll be interesting to see if we start seeing CVT tuners to maximize power and make it work like an actual CVT.

@GF-mf7ml

Жыл бұрын

I hope semi truck use CVT to maximize durability.

@donovansimison9336

Жыл бұрын

@@GF-mf7ml i have a civic touring that uses a CVT and i like it better than the traditional. It is FBO and Tuned and it holds power great. Stays in full boost the entire time my foot is planted. Manual transmission beats it off the line but after that there is no comparison.

@ghenry85

Жыл бұрын

@@GF-mf7ml Farm tractors use a planetary gear set style CVT. That may work with transport trucks.

@ghenry85

Жыл бұрын

Joseph You mean where the engine rpm stays constant(relatively), while the ratios change to give accelleration? Toyota Synergy hybrids do that as an e-CVT. ZF builds tractor CVTs that can be discribed as semi hydrostatic. They can be programmed to all sorts of driving strategies including what I mentioned above.

@csdstudio78

Жыл бұрын

What?! This is exactly why haters hate cvts. When they all first came out in the mid 2000s, that is exactly how they functioned and not a single person thought it felt or sounded normal...so manufacturers started making them shift like gears. Lmao.

I drove both a rubber band (DAF) and a metal belt (FIAT/Fuji) CVT for some years and I found them working very well just as they were intended, without artificial "gears" so with constant rpm, but the metal belt one with a computerised hydraulic control that (amongst other things) kept that constant rpm lower during acceleration in cases where max power wasn't needed.

The most informative video I have come across on KZread (in general) 👍

I'm glad you mentioned something about Subaru's 'notchiness' between ratios on their CVTs. My cousin has a newer Crosstrek and under just plain 'ol auto mode it has the annoying (to me) aspect that under more heavier acceleration it does the 'fake gears' instead of holding a peak power RPM that it would normally do under lighter acceleration. Having driven it under these circumstances, it definitely feels like there's that momentary loss of power when it jumps between the fixed ratios and when trying to get up to speed quick on the highway for example it feels a little unnerving. My personal vehicle is a Ford C-Max with an eCVT. Comparatively my brother has an older Crosstrek that doesn't do the fixed ratio jumps unless you specifically put it in manual mode and I very much have gotten comfortable and prefer having the engine just staying at one peak RPM and just accelerate with the constantly adjusted ratio. I wish Subaru had the option to disable the forced fake gear changes under heavy acceleration especially on something like the Crosstrek which isn't really made to be a sports car like the WRX.

@additivealex4566

Жыл бұрын

Interesting, I can't say I ever paid enough attention to notice it in my wrx, or maybe I didn't know what to notice. But I'm thinking that my stage 1+ tune could have possibly removed that, amongst changing other things, and is part of why it feels so much better now.

@brodiejones2028

Жыл бұрын

I agree. That would offer the best of both worlds. I wish the stepped changing could be switched on/off.

@Aiken47

10 ай бұрын

Completely different CVT

How is reliability? Can you do a video on CVTs and why they always break / how this could be prevented.

@zqzj

Жыл бұрын

It's because they operate with bands and belts instead of gears.

@specialopsdave

Жыл бұрын

Fast shifts + belts = slip Some CVTs that shift slower are more reliable (for example, tractor transmissions)

@rishijai

Жыл бұрын

Friction contact on the CVT belt is on the sides. It's a transmission designed for failure.

@davidyang9902

Жыл бұрын

high torque/starting is bad for CVT, that is why the toyota has eCVT (hybird electric motor assisted) and the CVT + fixed 1st gear. Either of these design solutions will address the downsides of a conventional CVT

@kevinwng

Жыл бұрын

Been driving a tuned 2020 VA WRX CVT and haven't had any issues. :)

Had a Nissan Versa with a CVT years ago. It was a bit like driving with turbo lag but it was an excellent commuter car that consistently had great milage.

@bigtimber

Жыл бұрын

My grandfather had one too. Now he's trying to get his money back for the transmission he had to buy.

@boohbah1223456

Жыл бұрын

​​@@bigtimber my cvt lasted 160000 Km. Waste of money.

i drive a 2015 CVT honda city handed down from my brother. it's no sports car, but neither me nor him have ever had any issues with the transmission. it's been smooth and reliable from the moment we bought the car. i really don't get the hate, it feels so much nicer to drive than an automatic

I have a 2014 Sentra with a CVT, gets 35-40mpg and is still pretty fun to drive around. It holds around 2k rpm when accelerating and holds 6k when my foot is to the floor, it acts like a CVT and that's really cool. I'm glad the WRX one is improving on that, but it is a little odd they didn't just go for a dual clutch design

The theoretical idea of CVT is great. Like You said in video - it can get max efficiency or max acceleration of the same engine, but (as You also said) it does not always happen in real world. Like in that Subaru - previous gen. was worse than manual, that gen. is "even" but still not significantly better. I think it still need some improvements in CVT so we can definitely said: "yup, it's better"

@tiagobelo4965

Жыл бұрын

I'd guess that had subaru not nerfed the cvt with fake shifts, it might edge out a victory in 0-60 times by some 0.2sec

@henrytaverner1803

11 ай бұрын

The fake gears actually make it slower as per Subaru test but people feel it's faster.

So disappointed that the WRX GT doesn’t come with a manual option. It’s a great car, with great seats. I test drove one and loved it, except the transmission. I’m buying a GR86 instead.

My only experience with a cvt in in my partner's '05 civic hybrid. Its doesn't do the fake gear think and if you put your foot to the floor it holds at 5k rpm. I wish all cvt cars had a mode to do that because that's the best for absolute acceleration and efficiency. Also, liked for waterfall notification

@JoshuaTootell

Жыл бұрын

My GF's accord is the same way. Boring appliance, but it acts like a CVT should.

@elikirkwood4580

Жыл бұрын

@@JoshuaTootell exactly. She's not really into cars the way I am so a correctly working cvt is perfect because it gets the most out of the little 1.3

@gageemlen2075

Жыл бұрын

Okay I need to ask. I had an 05 Civic Hybrid and did you experience any jerking motion when letting off or applying that gas? From what I read it had to deal with the CVT and oh my god it drove me crazy. Passengers would think I would just randomly slap the break hard for no reason lol

@elikirkwood4580

Жыл бұрын

@@gageemlen2075 yeah sometimes there's a vibration when first taking off and occasionally it jerks back and forth while under acceleration. It feels like it's randomly changing the gear ratio. It used to do it under deceleration but we got a software update when we took it in for the airbag recall that fixed it. I guess that was the regenerative braking

@RLTtizME

Жыл бұрын

Hybrid CVTs are eCVTs...they are different.

Durability long term, 150,000+ miles is what it would take for me to trust a CVT

@mojojoji5493

Жыл бұрын

Cvt is literally a rubber band I don’t trust that to take the shock of mashing the throttle

@mojojoji5493

Жыл бұрын

I call it gummy transmission

@Prepare2Survive

Жыл бұрын

@@mojojoji5493 Mopeds use rubber belts for the CVT, but cars use a steel chain. I'm still not convinced with their long term durability. They've been getting better, but only time will tell. At least with the mopeds the belt is cheap and very easy to replace. Costs 20 bucks and only takes 10 minutes to replace. Sadly, that's not the case with cars that have a CVT.

@moshet842

Жыл бұрын

My brother's 2013 Honda Accord with a CVT has over 160K and still shifts like a new car. You know what he does? He replaces the transmission fluid every 25k with Amsoil full synthetic.

My prior 2 cars were CVT cars and they were... sufficient... the first (Subaru) had a constant speed cvt (didn't have those clear 'gear steps'). I'm sure it was more efficient use of the power but it was dull and ALWAYS felt sluggish/mushy. However... it got me to work and back for many years. The second was on a Mini and it was a bit better. It had the set ratio thing and felt more like a traditional automatic so not as mushy but shifting was very lazy (hit the floppy paddle shifter in "M" mode and wait for a while or worse yet... put your foot to the floor and wait as it takes a second to decide to go) which REALLY made it feel like a crappy automatic. My new Mini has a DCT and it doesn't feel different from an in-gear perspective but the shifts are faster and are much more immediate in "Manual" mode - which makes the floppy paddle shifter something more than steering wheel ornaments. So while the theoretical performance of cvt high... I've yet to drive a car with one that was anywhere near as solid feeling as a DCT.

I have a 2019 sport hatch civic. I hated it at first. But it's starting to really grow on me. I came from a Manuel. Once you have your sound mods it'll be fine. My car sounds absolutely amazing with the best exhaust and intake I could get. ( Ark and prl)

8:30 Those potholes reminded you how much better the Crosstrek is at handling harsh bumps, and made you have a brain fart.

I think that you left out the greatest disadvantage, at least as currently implemented, and that is reliability. I have never owned a car with a CVT but I have read many accounts of them not even lasting 100,000 miles. I like the idea of a CVT but until they can be made to operate as reliably as other types of transmissions, I will give them a pass.

@davidnobular9220

Жыл бұрын

+1000 I try to keep my cars 10+ years (200,000km or so) and have never had a problem with any transmission. I doubt that any CVT vehicle could regularly do this kind of mileage without problems (sure there are outliers, but I am talking the bulk of them).

I just bought a 2020 Forester using this CVT, it is not what I expected, very smooth and fuel saving, not rubber band feeling, makes the car seem faster than it really is, like you said low speed local road driving it is smooth as butter. However I am not sure if this transmission will last 150k miles even with regular fluid change, so I bought it with the CPO program to make sure it at least go to 100k miles.

As a many generation Subaru driver who dealt with serious winters, the advantage of the CVT I wish we could maximize is the "constant AWD" with the CVT doing lowest torque yet matching to the max traction available. In essence, don't give me gears, but instead alter for traction and my requested speed constantly. I've seen and tried some basic implementations, but they all switch off at a certain speed or have other janky side-effects. What I'd like is pure winter traction control CVT/engine/AWD matching for predictability. Oh, and not get stuck when 1 wheel has rock or sidewalk being a static blocker.

I would've liked to have heard some discussion about reliability, as what I see in the InnerTubes is that CVTs are less reliable.

@christopherjohnston6343

Жыл бұрын

A lot of the reputation around reliability relates to cars from 20years ago when cvts were first coming on the market.

@johnrobinson1328

Жыл бұрын

@@christopherjohnston6343 Fun fact. The Justy had a CVT in the mid 1980s. I wish that was 20 years ago. But it was not.

@christopherjohnston6343

Жыл бұрын

@@johnrobinson1328 oh yeah the justy was an early adopter as well as other city cars such as the March etc but we started seeing more mainstream use in the late 90s early 00s. And this is the period that created the bad reputatuon

Isn't the speed of the CVT "shifting" a bit of a deception based on the tachometer? You can hear the engine RPM's catch up slower than the actual needle speed. I noticed most tachometers in cars move faster than the actual rpm based on a calculated RPM after each shift, mostly noticeable on newer Mercedes AMG's with the digital tachos and I suspect this WRX is doing the same thing

@bcredeur97

Жыл бұрын

or the pulleys haven't fully finished adjusting, so the engine got there quickly, but you cant apply all the torque juuuust yet so it's like it's not exactly "fully in gear"

@LEONK82

Жыл бұрын

Yea, if it was instant like dct it would wear heavily because the chain or belt is getting forced up instead of following and riding up the pulley

@csdstudio78

Жыл бұрын

Agreed, it's all fakeness. Every part about it. Cvts will always suck and manufacturers keep trying to convince us otherwise with so much trickery and fake sportiness.

@SuperRisingdeath

Жыл бұрын

@@csdstudio78 wow hater

@nix123ism

Жыл бұрын

@@SuperRisingdeath no, he won't be a real hater until he has to pay to get a cvt fixed, that's when the rage will start, compare how much cvt transmissions cost to fix if they break and you will never buy one ever again....

Hey! I work at the Subaru dealer you bring your Hyper Blue Crosstrek to. Or have brought to anyways. Also love the scenery here, if im right its the road coming down from Vista House. Gorgeous view and a fun road! Anyways. Love the content, and always a pleasure getting to talk to you when you come in!

My respect for this channel went down the hill when he said that cvt belongs in a sport car.

Have you noticed, the previous gen model was doing 0 t0 60 in 5.1 secs vs t the current which does 5.7, this doesn't make the cvt faster, but it makes the manual slower

@dieseldan420ca

Жыл бұрын

2009-14 WRX 5 speed went 0-60 in only 4.7 seconds.

@VanquishedAgain

Жыл бұрын

Yep. Subaru is going the way of Mitsubishi. They decided they didn't want fun cars, they wanted boring cars

@Muronov

Жыл бұрын

@@VanquishedAgain its not they dude, but the clients.

My last 3 Audi’s have all had Dual Clutch transmissions and I highly prefer the positive clutch take up (like a well driven manual) when accelerating from a stop than the sensations of a torque convert automatic. At least new torque converter autos are not the “slip and slide with Powerglide” slush boxes of my youth. 😊

@Kavafy

Жыл бұрын

What's the difference in sensation?

@keithkeller1282

Жыл бұрын

@@Kavafy More direct. Like letting a clutch out on a manual.

@mrvwbug4423

Жыл бұрын

Drive something sporty that has the ZF 8 speed (most BMWs run it), best conventional automatic out there hands down. GM has also been able to get their 8 speed automatic down to DCT level shift speeds, though I think they only ran this tuning on the C7 Vette, I don't think their 10 speed auto can match those shift speeds and of course the C8 is DCT.

@southfloridanick

Жыл бұрын

The new 8 & 10 speeds are pretty damn good but dual clutch trans are still better unless you want to swap out the TC for a big stall.

@josemorenoporras7506

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree,DSG is like a perfect manual shift over and over,crazy fast. My favorite DSG is 7 speed found in old 1.2 TSI engines,crazy fast compared to more modern DSG,sport mode is very sporty up&down shifts

Loved that you showed the rpm when shifting manually with the CVT. Could you do that with more cars? ie any recent BMW with the 8HP from ZF or cars with the DSG gearbox. I'd love to see the response time of those

@qwertyytrew5271

11 ай бұрын

Agree. Also the ford/gm 10 speed, i can speak for it in the camaro that is an awesome transmission. Really is proof we dont need dcts when we can make that good of a conventional automatic.

We have on in a 2010 sentra ser. 2,5 ltr. The only drive ability problem I saw was when you're bumper to bumper, stop and go rush hour type traffic, it tends to lurch finding a better gear ratio, which will put you in the back of the car ahead of you if you're not careful. Putting them to the floor ,as with a regular auto, doesn't work well. I found just putting the pedal down a little (1") puts the power down faster, gets the Trans into a more suitable gear ratio and puts the engine into a stronger torque band. This makes merging into high speed traffic( freeway) a breeze. Very little pedal pressure and you'll get sucked back into your seat. I think they're a great transmission if they get the longevity issues worked out

I wonder how much drivetrain loss you get with the CVT compared to the manual. Would love to see both of them on the dyno.

@gardenia1738

Жыл бұрын

You can't dyno a cvt (at least in "regular" mode)

@davidmccarthy6061

Жыл бұрын

It probably only matters on paper. The car is already more capable than 99% of owners driving skills.

@sethflorentz4809

Жыл бұрын

Most cvts have an efficiency of about 92-98% with the torque converter locked up

@T1Oracle

Жыл бұрын

Just drag race the two. That's more relevant than a dyno.

@smoothbraindetainer

Жыл бұрын

@@gardenia1738 what's stopping you

crazy to see in action CVT hunting for the best brake specific fuel consumption and the rpm drops as you accelerate

I think CVT's as a concept are good. But it's going to take me plenty of convincing now to trust a Subaru CVT. A close friend of mine bought his Subaru Forester new with a CVT many years back. He kept to the scheduled services, and wasn't putting a huge amount of mileage on it, but just after 100,000 kms, his transmission more or less failed, needing a complete replacement. Fortunately, he was just barely inside the warranty, so it was replaced under warranty, and he wrote it off as just bad luck. But after a further 90,000 kms, the transmission had another severe issue and needed another full replacement.

@KaylaJoyGunn

Жыл бұрын

CVTs are a terrible idea. A manual is going to give you the same efficiency with the right ratios, and it's far more reliable, cheaper to repair, and doesn't have 14 computer modules and sensors.

@Jose-sy1je

Жыл бұрын

Doesn't the direct injection on the Subarus also ruin the engine?

Loved the video. Wish you could talk a bit more about reliability. Seems so many brands are having problems when the driver is engaged in even minimally spirited driving.

@alanharrison573

Жыл бұрын

I have used them for decades and never an issue.

The red exterior and Recaros look great! This video makes the CVT look decent, but all my friends with Subaru CVT experience have complained about it one way or another. Like most people, I would be worried about longevity.

@alexchan-kai8847

Жыл бұрын

also resale value on CVT WRX is much lower than a manual.

@keithyinger3326

Жыл бұрын

That's what I would worry about also is longevity. Farm Craft 101 just did a video where he replaced a CVT transmission. He said some guys say they wear out fast and another guy has had his for 150,000 miles but he changes the oil every 20,000 miles. An oil and filter change in that CVT transmission cost 200 bucks. I know some people are lucky to get the oil changed in their engine for 35-50 so good luck with an extra $200 oil change every 6-7 oil changes.

@21jimmyo

Жыл бұрын

@@keithyinger3326 - I change the CVT fluid myself in the wife's Civic every spring. It's not hard to do. The right Honda fluid isn't cheap, so it's about 50 bucks. The car has a little over 120k with zero issues since new.

reliability/longevity of the cvt has always been it's drawback. Smooth non jerky acceleration and proper maintenance has been decent for cvts, but knowing the market for those who drive a wrx, I don't see how they will last. Unless there is something more that has helped prolong longeviity

@leonel9110

Жыл бұрын

I think it’s ok since wrx tend to blow

@chainringcalf

Жыл бұрын

The best thing for longevity is Cobb refusing to support them

@andrewk8636

Жыл бұрын

That's what keeps me from buying the new civic. I don't trust the cvt or the turbo to take me to 300k miles

@gj91471

Жыл бұрын

All CVT's use Oil with too low a spec. Step up, Oil Extreme Concentrate and pour it. Your CVT will work smooth as Butter

@FSXgta

Жыл бұрын

Toyota offloads the CVT on the Prius by using the electric motor from a standstill.

Nice article and I agree that the dual clutch is a great transmission. I have a 2018 Kia Niro hybrid that combines a dual clutch transmission with the hybrid electric motor. The car starts in EV mode with the electric motor and the IC engine depending on throttle position. The car starts smoothly without the customary problems with soft starts with a dual clutch transmission. I think this combination of electric motor and dual clutch is better that the planetary gear system Toyota uses in their hybrids. Maybe all hybrids should have the dual clutch tranny

It would be interesting to make a clip of how a cvt works in a sxs or atv. How the helix responds to torque and all the different settings of the weights, springs and so on. It's different technology than that used in cars. Thanks.

Regarding the torque converter in low speed with DCT's. It's really there to stop burning the clutches out in stop start traffic. The TC is for reliability.

I have a CVT and it sucks. It feels exactly like a normal auto transmission. I hate the jumpiness when you accelerate. I thought the whole point of a continuous transmission was it’d feel like one single gear, similar to an EV.

@andoletube

Жыл бұрын

It was supposed to be that way. The early ones that came out around 2009-2010 were actually continuous, but apparently people complained about the monotonous drone so they programmed them to jump to discreet ratios to simulate gear shifts. It really is a mad idea. They should have put their efforts into making the car quieter so the drone doesn't bother people and retain the efficiency. I'm sure this rapid shifting of ratios also contributes to the poor reliability and belt damage.

@WilliamStrealy

Жыл бұрын

My 2016 prius is extremely smooth at all times. It uses the hybrid system to provide instant torque in daily driving scenarios, so it feels like an EV. I’m really glad that it doesn’t do the fake shifting BS that newer CVT-equipped vehicles do.

@dannymartial7997

Жыл бұрын

@@andoletube Yea, that’s the exact reason why I hate it. The companies gave into the complaints from monkey-brained people who can’t handle a little bit of change. Programming in the fake gear-shift feel is like imitating a flaw that doesn’t need to exist.

@dannymartial7997

Жыл бұрын

@@WilliamStrealy I have a new Corolla hatchback. So maybe I should look into the new Prius. The new one is pretty sexy. And hopefully, it feels the same way as how you describe yours

Excellent explanation. I have a CVT Impreza and it goes really well. I can't see the point in creating stepped gears so I don't use that feature. However, unlike the WRX and the Levorg, it does not run the engine at peak power when accelerating hard - I don't know why, probably trying to get better economy! Using the stepped selection it goes harder and changes gear for you just on the redline! No changing required... Weird! My mechanic, who is a 30+ year Subaru specialist, finds that the "shopping basket" CVTs like my Impreza are fine but the more powerful cars like WRX have reliability issues and he doesn't recommend them to his customers.

I have the accord 1.5t cvt. It's grown on me. No shift points and smooth delivery. It just pulls. This would do well in a powerful engine.

Let’s see if it lasts over time as it’s replacement cost is quite unequal

All in all CVT's are/were designed for economy driving not performance which is probably why they don't seem to last as long when driven as performance nor are repairable... they can only be replaced ($8k recent dealership quote for my buddy's legacy and that was 2 years ago before inflation). You make valid points however my cvt started going out at 110k mileage (I had fluid changed twice) and quickly dumped the car / trade in for a Toyota real automatic and will never own another cvt as a result. Thanks for your your overall very interesting and educational videos.

@ctrlaltdebug

Жыл бұрын

They are repairable but not economical to do so due to time and part costs.

@raymow9683

Жыл бұрын

Correct, even if you are able to find someone willing and capable to do it.

At least in my dad's Audi B8 A4 1.8tfsi the multitronic in "D" will function as a cvt should. Also WOT it will raise the rpm to about 4500 and keep it there. In S-mode it keeps a bit higher rpm (1600) compared to d (1100-1200), and simulates gear changes quite vaguely. In manual mode it works quite well. But when I drive it, I usually put it in S under 60kmh and switch to d in higher speeds as the small i4 gets a bit rumbly around 1200rpm. The audi system has a multi-plate clutch if I'm not mistaken.

I don't think most people have an issue with concept or utility of a cvt. The the only gripe I hear about is that they can never seem to make it past 100k miles with many going out around 50-75k, which is atrocious and absolutely unacceptable when compared with a standard automatic.

@AcheLone

6 ай бұрын

mine is already 150k.....although now i feel it somewhat slipping at times.....hope it can survive 200k...and it is a lancer cvt from jatco...

I don't know EE. The CVT may perform, but that longevity for 80k miles+ just is not there. The car owner should put all the money they save in gas in a bank account for when the transmission eventually grenades. Speaking as someone who had a Nissan CVT crap out 300miles over the mileage Nissan was replacing them...a tank of gas messed it up.

@mitchl.9207

Жыл бұрын

I happen to also be a Mechanical Engineer. I bought my '16 Maxima SV brand new, I now have 132,000 miles on it. Not one issue with this car (yes, even the CVT); change that fluid, people!

@anticyclingclub

Жыл бұрын

You aren’t even getting better gas mileage with it is the thing, it’s 19 city 26 highway for the manual and 19 city 25 highway for the CVT.

@ColossalAsh3028

Жыл бұрын

@@mitchl.9207 I had a 18' Sentra Spec. Ed. with ~80k. Duno. I did change the fluid every 45-55k.

@ohger1

Ай бұрын

My son's 2019 Subaru just grenaded the transmission. $10K to fix - supposedly there's a class action settlement that extends the warranty. They're waiting to hear right now.

@ColossalAsh3028

Ай бұрын

@@ohger1 I wish you/your son the best with the case outcome! It's a neat tech, but man when it goes wrong, it's super wrong!

My main concern with the CVT is what happens when it breaks, those things are expennnnnnnnnnsive whereas a manual is much cheaper to fix. Performance is fun and I would like it but it's secondary to reliability for me. Will probably end up with the Forester though which there is no manual option :( But still considering the Crosstrek, which also will have a manual parking brake which even if the electric brake never fails, the analog nature of *knowing* my parking brake is up and doesn't need electricity to function gives me better peace of mind than an electric brake, even if I know there are manual overrides if the power fails. Crosstrek should have a couple more MPGs too, but the Forester will have a bunch more space. I'll figure it out eventually.

@emartinezr

Жыл бұрын

Yeah if your CVT craps out after 4yrs or so... you're done. The whole car is paper weight.

@mattiapresti7295

Жыл бұрын

Have you idea of much a gearbox costs? Have you ever disassembled a moped?

@deborah_chrysoprase

Жыл бұрын

@@mattiapresti7295 I know they're not cheap either but they're not *SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS*

@mattiapresti7295

Жыл бұрын

Actually, a gearbox costs about 7k$, if we talk of european cars with manual transmission. In USA, with automatics... goodbye. The biggest complication? Twinclutch. That's why a modern car with faulty gearbox isn't worth the repair. CVT are less complex as architecture than a traditional gearbox. There are only chains and belts, instead of thermically treatened gears, that themselves are already little wonders

@mattiapresti7295

Жыл бұрын

*Thermochemically treatened. I'm sorry but I don't know how to translate the treatment in which steel gets enriched with ammonia at high temperature. Not methane, and then temper, ammonia that frees nitrogen

I really don’t like the CVT in my wife’s ascent. I have a 10R80 in my F-150 and it’s fantastic. RPM drop between shifts is only about 600 rpm so it’s able to stay in the power band. It’s also able to handle huge amounts of power without slipping or temperature issues unlike a CVT.

My issue is the money involved: - more expensive to buy - more expensive to repair (and fairly often they break and the fix is to replace it with the exact same component which will break again, rinse and repeat...) - worse fuel economy (a belt is less efficient than gears. CVTs can optimize for efficiency, but they often don't)

These videos are amazing! Thank you for all the time and effort you put forth.

One thing I'm realizing is you didn't talk about long-term life of these transmissions I've driven a few cvts and they are pretty smooth but the biggest problem is every car I've driven with a cvt the transmission is going out you can't accelerate hard cause then they jerk I have not come across a car with a good taken care cvt transmission the problem is to make them last you have to do a fluid change way more often and from what I've heard doing that then voids your warranty and I've had friends with cars with cvt transmissions and they have been like well can we replace it and I say yes we could but good luck finding a good transmission in the junkyard and to buy a new one always costs more than what the car is worth yet you get a normal automatic and I've had great luck with junkyard transmissions

@loge2001

Жыл бұрын

Most readable youtube comment

@SR-ry6hs

Жыл бұрын

I agree.

@LanguagesWithAndrew

Жыл бұрын

@@loge2001 Oh my god, you just made me realize that it IS one long, rambling sentence. Jesus.

@davidnobular9220

Жыл бұрын

@@loge2001 Hang on this sounds like fun........can I have a go ? I have been doing a lot of research about CVT as I am looking to replace my V6 Accord with over 200,000km so I wanted to get a 4WD and in Australia the ONLY non-diesel 4WDs are Subaru (OK, it's AWD) and Suzuki Jimny (too small for me - it's even worse on the highway than my DR650 but I digress...) lots of reading suggests the Subarus CVTs are a bit better than Nissan (for example) and there is a Facebook Australia group of Subaru owners who are really pissed about their CVT problems - some of these people are hard core Subaru Fan Boiz and some have said "never again" so this really rings alarm bells for me but there are the odd owners that get a good run out of a CVT but these are few and far between it seems to me that most who say they have no issues tend to get new vehicles after 3-5 years again this sets off alarm bells for me so I am now looking at diesel but finding the greenie/leftie local councils are trying to shut down ICE engines and in particular diesels thus I am in a quandary and do not know what to get there are some people who say diesel will stay for a long time (for essential transport of good and services etc) but I suspect that one will need a Govt issued license before a service depot will allow you to buy diesel for your private vehicle.

Its good to see CVT's getting better. Every CVT I've driven was super boring and felt like a slipping clutch.

@BenjaminCronce

Жыл бұрын

2021 cross trek cvt. My wife loves it. She has no idea what a "CVT" is but she says it feels so responsive compared to every other vehicle she has ever driven. I have to agree, other than for manual. The engine breaking is pretty cool as well. I think it completely shuts off fuel and just keeps the engine at an operational RPM because of the direct link through the CVT. I've never had an automatic engine break before.

@jralphroman

Жыл бұрын

Your life must be boring if you need a transmission to entertain you on your way to work

@skimboards4life

Жыл бұрын

@@jralphroman I have a great life, but can genuinely say that driving my (manual) BRZ to work every morning is something I look forward to while I get ready.

@dariusjonsson2358

Жыл бұрын

@@jralphroman if you have a slow car just say that

@ThePilotGear

Жыл бұрын

@@jralphroman i don't even know what you're trying to gatekeep here.

The first CVT I ever drove was a 2012 Nissan rogue. When I dropped it back off to my cousin, I told her that something was wrong with her transmission because it wasn't shifting, but it just had a CVT. The CVT in my 2019 Nissan Altima actually shifts like a normal car compared to the cvts that seem like they never shift and the rpms seem not to drop.

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That gauge display could be showing you whatever it wants to show you vs the true change in gear ratio. I'm sure it's quick though.

@chumpmu1

Жыл бұрын

Yeah. I thought the same. Put it on a dyno and learn the truth.

The advantage of a so-called dual clutch transmission (which might better be called automatically shifting transmissions) is that it is very rugged and long-lasting like a manual transmission. Except for the clutch friction disc, and a few other clutch parts (throw-out bearing?), it can basically last "forever." Once in awhile you may have to do some maintenance on the clutch, but the gears, in their gearcase, could last through the life of several engines. In a CVT you may have wear on the pulley surfaces, and the belt. These will be inside the case. The parts that wear on a dual clutch transmission will be in the bell housing where the clutch is, and not inside the case. The gears are more rugged than belts and pulleys.

@eugene9852

Жыл бұрын

They're called dual-clutch, because that's exactly what they are. 🤔 The name is entirely appropriate There are also automatic shifting single-clutch transmissions. They're a different thing entirely. They tend to only be in hyper-cars.

@soilmanted

Жыл бұрын

@@eugene9852 It is not inaccurate to call such a transmission a dual clutch transmission, but that is not necessarily the name that best describes what it is that distinguishes it from other transmissions. Also, that name might be misleading. The first thing that comes to my mind is that it either has 2 clutch pedals,, or it has one pedal that operates 2 clutches simultaneously, and that it has to be shifted manually.. What's distinctive about a so-called dual clutch transmission is not that it has 2 clutches, but that it has gears just like a manual transmission, and that the operation of both clutching, and gear-shifting are performed automatically. "Dual clutch" doesn't tell us that. It might be better to call it an _auto-shifting gearbox._ However such a device been made using hydraulics and a single clutch. With a dual clutch transmission we have not only 2 clutches, but we have 2 input shafts, one for odd-numbered gears and one for even, and a separate clutch for each input shaft. Also we have hydraulic operation of the clutch and the gearshifts; the gearbox can be shifted with almost no interruptions of the flow of power from the engine to the wheels. Another name for this device might be dual-input shaft auto-shifting gearbox or a Gearbox that Shifts Automatically and Without Interruption of Power-flow , or uninterrupted power auto gearbox (GSAWIPF or UPAG)

The principle how CVT works means, it can never be overly reliable unless someone invents some super materials, but decides not to charge much money from using them. The principle of traditional automatic gearbox however is extremely reliable as the only thing stressed is fluid and it can always be changed easily and at low cost.

What about long term durability between CVT, dual clutch and manual? (Without slamming the gears or powershifting)

I have had this exact same conversation with my friends and I always get the bad looks but CVT’s are a great idea poorly implemented

@srkvhozite2424

Жыл бұрын

CVTs reputation was ruined early on by Nissan CVTs being grenades. If early models had been like the one in the new WRX I feel attitudes would be different

@Leetshifter

Жыл бұрын

@@srkvhozite2424 Owner of a 2019 Nissan Kicks here, Nissan CVTs are still awful and need to be melted down.

@EngineeringExplained

Жыл бұрын

Have 'em drive this, it's fantastic.

@APopov

Жыл бұрын

@@Leetshifter I've heard from at least 2 people about replacing CVTs in Nissan X-Trail (older one, T31) and Quashqai (new one, I believe they are called Rogue Sport in USA). Yes, Jatco CVTs are still trash.

@wiciuwiciu2783

Жыл бұрын

@@srkvhozite2424 in Europe, the Saab offered CVT in comfort - oriented car. Imagine comfort with engine non-stop revving on 4,5k r.p.m. xD

I have 10k miles on my 2022 CVT. I love it, it isn't perfect, but it isn't nearly as bad as people have made it out to be. S# mode is amazing.

@wesgreen2812

Жыл бұрын

Nothing like your best point being. It's not that bad. Sums up the new wrx

Just returned from the dealer due to recently occurring shudder and lack of acceleration with increasing rpms with check engine light. The dealer says our 2016 Forester with only 118,000 kms needs a replacement CVT. Thankfully the warranty will cover it. I remember being worried about that CVT when we bought it, and almost bought a Rav4 instead because of its 6-speed conventional automatic transmission. The warranty on the replacement transmission will only be a year, so that's not great, but if the replacement can last seven years, we'll be good.

i had a CVT in my 2009 Nissan Maxima, it would actually pull constant when you floored it, felt odd but still enjoyable

Correct me if im wrong, this is just something ive noticed.. These digital displays that are being used today are often designed to respond to the "Input" of the gear change (To make them seem faster), not the "Outcome" of it which is the Increase in rpms. Where's "most" physical needle gauges respond to the rpm change after the gear change occurs (The Outcome). This means that if your going to shift from 3>4 causing (for argument's sake) a 500 rpm change. The digital display will instantly drop the rpm at which point it still takes the mechanical components and engine another roughly 400 milliseconds to adjust its rpm and power delivery.. so in other words, appearance isn't always actuality in these cases

@AleksandarStefanovic

3 ай бұрын

Good point, I wonder how the sound/feel is in the car, and whether a discrepancy between the time of the dial change and the time of sound change exists.

Jason, thanks so much! I'm a car enthusiast who has questioned the appeal of CVT's, and I for one can tell you that your presentation of the facts with a healthy dose of fun and lots of real-world examples was excellent! Definitely one of my favorite videos (literally added to my KZread favorites list). I look forward to more to come. Thanks again!

@JustinDaniels

Жыл бұрын

CVTs and DCTs are still less reliable than their traditional AT and MT counterparts...

Not all CVTs are the same. Many Toyota and some Honda hybrids use CVTs with planetary toothed gearsets (no belts). The catch is you have to introduce another electric motor, the rate the electric motor spins is what varies the gear ratios. These are much more durable than "belt" hybrids. Chains and belts just wear out. This wouldn't be such an issue if CVT makers didn't seal them up completely or otherwise make them very difficult to service.

Super informative!! Thanks! I subscribed! Question: Is it OK to drive a WRX CVT in manual mode all the time?

CVTs will never replace the feel of actual Gears and the practicality of actual transmission.

Would you think of covering the Toyota Hybrid CVT? It seems to be an entirely different approach.

@tonybennett638

Жыл бұрын

If you search on KZread.... Weber auto understanding Toyota RAV4 hybrid... Prof Kelly will give you all you need to know 😀

0:39 tripped me out, that's my wallpaper picture :D

the '15 to '17 CVT Toyota Camry Hybrid is an absolute pleasure to drive

R.E.L.I.A.B.I.L.I.T.Y. This is the Achilles heel of CVT thus far

@Erdie5

Жыл бұрын

Getting better every year, though! Most of them don't have the ultra-low range anymore and opt for an actual gear for "1st gear". A lot less movement around cities operating like that.

@WilliamStrealy

Жыл бұрын

Toyota’s CVT is one of the most reliable transmissions sold today.

@ltlbuddha

Жыл бұрын

@@WilliamStrealy I'm willing to accept that if you have the data.

Sadly, there were no words regarding reliability differences between CVT anf manual. My guess is that the CVT just won't be as reliable over the long term. Also, I wonder what the recommended service requirement differences are; fluid changes every N miles? Rebuild every N miles? Etc.

@rars0n

Жыл бұрын

I've never heard of a reliable CVT. Edit: I know on Ford's CVTs, the transmissions are sealed and the fluid is not supposed to be changed for the life of the vehicle. Probably one of the MANY reasons why these CVTs fail like clockwork. There are two filters in them, one is fairly easily accessible through the driver's side wheel well, while the other one is at the bottom of the pan and not "designed" to be serviced. Again, you can imagine how well this works in practice.

@davidmccarthy6061

Жыл бұрын

Reliable is relative. Autos need maintenance and repairs. Manuals need new clutches and some cars go through them fairly quickly.

@danielwatson5595

Жыл бұрын

@@davidmccarthy6061yeah just ignore the rate in which they need major rebuilding/replacing of gears/belts. Or that a clutch job is a DIY job, while try replacing the belts on your cvt in your driveway. Not even remotely comparable nor “relative.”

@rars0n

Жыл бұрын

@@davidmccarthy6061 "Autos need maintenance and repairs." Tell that to Ford. Their CVT is basically designed for zero maintenance. The only maintenance that is SUPPOSED to be done for the life of the vehicle is changing the smaller of the two transmission filters every 100k miles. Good luck reaching that milestone before the CVT breaks.

@rars0n

Жыл бұрын

@@danielwatson5595 I'm not aware of ANYONE that actually works on CVTs. As far as I know, when they break, you buy a whole new one. I would imagine even despite their inflated price tag a new CVT from the factory is probably still cheaper than parts and labor for a belt repair.

"CVT transmission" = "continuously variable transmission transmission" "ATM machine" = "automated teller machine machine" "PIN number" = "personal identification number number"

Performance and driving experience is one thing - but I’m still skeptical about long term reliability of CVTs.