If you can't tell the difference between 80m and 600m, you have absolutely no business piloting a plane.

@nsahandler

3 күн бұрын

Not saying I disagree with you, BUT maybe he didn't know the relative size of the cable car?

@gst013

3 күн бұрын

Absolutely ridiculous excuse. .."We got confused"

@user-vz6xl3mh2k

3 күн бұрын

So because they do know the difference, but wanted to play games, then they should be pilots? WOW

@MrCanadaben

3 күн бұрын

@@user-vz6xl3mh2k That is absolutely not what the OG comment meant....

@wkboggs5

3 күн бұрын

No question…They were hot dogging. Knowing full well they were below minimums. 😢

I remember when this happened and being absolutely appalled. There's a factor of 7.5 between 80m and 600m. The entire crew was full of shit and lying. We should have let the Italians handle them.

@miapdx503

3 күн бұрын

Absolutely

@skwervin1

3 күн бұрын

I agree. I remember this accident and they should have had the book thrown at them and be in Leavenworth prison today.

@helenevillemure9178

3 күн бұрын

It is my impression as well. Besides, if trained airmen cannot tell the difference between 80 and 600 metres, they definitely should not be flying. Or be sent to gliding school... maybe they could handle a 80 metres tow... :)

@Ozymandias1

3 күн бұрын

Italy does send people to jail for things like this, see the video about the first disaster.

@Niskirin

2 күн бұрын

@@Ozymandias1 You mean the case where the wrong people were sent to prison while the actual perpetrators, the administration, walked free?

Wait... so the unlicensed operator from the first accident got 15 years but the guys got virtually nothing?

@tiadaid

3 күн бұрын

Well…’Murica!

@tiadaid

3 күн бұрын

Well…’Murica!

@Coldpizza22

3 күн бұрын

I think that guy only got 3 years and only served 9 months. That being said, you’re still absolutely right. Both the pilot and the navigator in this tragedy should still be rotting in jail to this day.

@micheleshively8557

3 күн бұрын

Make it make sense?

@crazeelazee7524

3 күн бұрын

@@micheleshively8557 Very simple. Two different courts, one was looking for justice while the other was looking to defend its guys.

Blaming the altimeter is BS. Any pilot can tell the difference between 260 and 2000 feet and certainly their airspeed indicator was working. They were hotdogging and should have been prosecuted as such.

@neiloflongbeck5705

3 күн бұрын

Spoken like a non-pilot. It is easy to misread an altimeter. Been there, done that, and got away with it without incident.

@Jabarri74

3 күн бұрын

Checked and found to be working perfectly then the report gets buried. Smacks of a cover up

@coconutsmarties

3 күн бұрын

​@@neiloflongbeck5705 Spoken like someone who can't see a freaking mountain 80 metres away in clear conditions.

@KCzz15

3 күн бұрын

@@neiloflongbeck5705 It's amazing that you can still get people simping for those obviously in the wrong even in situations like this.

@neiloflongbeck5705

3 күн бұрын

@coconutsmarties ah, someone who is less smart than their handle. They could see the mountain but couldn't see the cables for the cable cars. Many pilots over the years have come cropper because they never saw the wires across a gap. One glider pilot I knew was hospitalised by a single cable he never saw as the poles holding it up were covered by trees.

I was stationed at Aviano in the US Air Force when this all went down. I was horrified, and incredulous those men got off so light. Not only did they get away with killing people, but they deliberately destroyed pertinent evidence! Those images I saw of smashed bodies laying in the snow. The Italian people had every right to be angry.

@GenXfrom75

3 күн бұрын

It was manslaughter. Not murder.

@cycotyk189

3 күн бұрын

​@@GenXfrom75that's an odd hill to die on.

@GenXfrom75

3 күн бұрын

@@cycotyk189 not dying on any hill. But they didn’t murder those people. Murder is a deliberate act with intent to kill. They caused their deaths. That’s manslaughter.

@MrDlt123

3 күн бұрын

@@GenXfrom75 I was speaking figuratively, not by the legal definition.

@Lerxst

3 күн бұрын

@@GenXfrom75 That's negligent homicide, not manslaughter. Manslaughter would mean they did not mean to fly that low, but they did mean to fly that low, and the negligence led them to murder 20 people.

"I burned the tape because people would get mad at me." *literally just was part of causing an accident that killed 20 people* I hate to break it to you dude, but people will be mad at you no matter what because of what you did

@zorfmorf2414

3 күн бұрын

It's pretty obvious that they knew the tape would incriminate them, knowingly flying extra low and showing off.

@peterhoulihan9766

3 күн бұрын

@@zorfmorf2414 At the very least he should have been convicted for destruction of evidence. Edit: Nevermind, he got obstruction.

@lillyclarity9699

3 күн бұрын

"I don't want people to think I committed the crime I accidentally committed on purpose" does not equal "I didn't want people mad at me" pretty clear he understood people were going to mad at him. he didn't want to spit on the corpses of the victims he just killed by having a tape of him smiling and enjoying the view immediately before the accident. considering the media's love affair with tabloid reporting, it's not an unfounded fear. Besides, he probably didn't need to even burn the tape. If he cried to his superiors in the military, they probably would have covered it up. It's not like the crash was his fault - he was just the navigator, after all, and that's shown by the fact that he escaped receiving a prison sentence. Also, just so you both understand, you *do* know that a navigator of the plane isn't the one who is flying the plane, right? If the two fratboy flightboy military cowboy jackasses wanted to fuck around, horse about, and fly their plane lower than they are supposed to, you do understand that the navigator really can't do much other than say mean words to them, right? He's not even in the same room, really - they communicate via intercom. It amazes me that people can pay half attention to a ten minute video on a topic and pretend like they're experts on the topic

@Pretzil43

3 күн бұрын

​@@lillyclarity9699 Who's job would it be to look at the envelope marked "new map"?

@Gelgisith

3 күн бұрын

@@lillyclarity9699 While it isn't normally the navigator actually flying the plane, he can do so, since he is in a front seat, with flight controls at his disposal. IOW, he is one of the two cowboy fratboy flyboys.

The fact that they were acquitted was a huge travesty of justice

@chaminadecrew79

3 күн бұрын

No its really not

@foreverpinkf.7603

2 күн бұрын

"Semper fi" taking care.

@bigwezz

2 күн бұрын

​@chaminadecrew79 Yes, it is you absolute melt.

@EclipseAtDusk

Күн бұрын

Welcome to the modern american military 🙃🙃

@Vertigation

Күн бұрын

Welcome to the military where they'll move mountains to protect their officers from murder but will brig a private in a heartbeat for touching a joint

As an American and a veteran, I am ashamed that more was not done to make amends to the families of the victims and that the two men were acquitted. They should have paid for their negligence. This disaster should never have happened. RIP all of you poor souls. 💔

@Petboch

3 күн бұрын

From someone in Italy I thank you for this comment, your much better pilot than the four baboons In that prowler.

@MyKharli

3 күн бұрын

Add it to an enormous list

@madhippy3

3 күн бұрын

As an enlisted marine I am said to say tI am not surprised this is how my officers could have acted.

@thebumpercar1344

3 күн бұрын

It was Newt Gingrich and his Republican House that voted against it just because Bill Clinton wanted it. The GOP has always been the party of deliberate cruelty.

@earlwheelock7844

3 күн бұрын

NO WONDER THE ITALIANS ( and other Europians call us " THE UGLY AMERICANS!!!) If that was an Italian plane, flying over the rockies, and hit a gondola cable , killing 20 Americans while HOT DOGGING!!, BET THE CREW WOULD STILL BE IN PRISON!!! ( RULES FOR THEE BUT NOT FOR ME!!! typical!!!)

These clowns were 100% goofing off and recording their "fun". I guarantee that they saw the gondola and dared each other to fly below it. How infuriating that they suffered no consequences for taking so many lives AND denying and culpability.

@SoManyRandomRamblings

2 күн бұрын

@@mr.snippy exactly this. And that was why they burned the tapes because they could fully redact anything visual and claim military intelligence, so the excuse of their smiling faces being why they destroyed evidence is B.S. ....they would however have a harder time explaining away editing the audio, and I fully believe that the audio would have them bragging they can fly under the line. (And I have the s on tapes intentionally because they probably have past footage of them or others doing that same thing more than once)

@Chaotic_Observer

2 күн бұрын

Absolutely! Exactly he felt the need to burn the film! Coward! He was being a sloppy idiot. They all were.

@arnenelson4495

2 күн бұрын

YOU cannot guarantee ANYTHING

@dx1450

2 күн бұрын

This is exactly what I suspect as well. Even if your altimeter is broken, you can tell the difference between 200 ft and 2000 ft.

@LPCLASSICAL

Күн бұрын

@@arnenelson4495 Agreed but I think it is possible this tragedy resulted from a bet or dare or show off stunt.

He burnt the tape because he didn't want it to be used as evidence thats an admission of guilt right there

@reneedennis2011

3 күн бұрын

Yup.

@ligmasack9038

3 күн бұрын

Nah, that's called "Pleading the 5th", as he made a Tape that was self-incriminating.

@VerdeDrums

3 күн бұрын

Oh wow, you’re the first person to realize that! Surely justice will be served this time!

@axelbrackeniers5488

3 күн бұрын

@@ligmasack9038no, its called “tampering with evidence” and its a crime in almost all western countries.

@axelbrackeniers5488

3 күн бұрын

Destroying anything that could be considered evidence is a crime in itself. They should have been arrested just for that alone. But ofcourse the US military gets away with everything. Laos, Afghanistan, Korea, Vietnam, iraq, iran… they all remember

My dad who is in the Italian airforce told me about this and I was so angry. He told me that allegedly pilots tend to fly that low and that fast for fun, as sort of a thrill. I really hate how the people responsible didn't get punished in a meaningful way. But hey, its not surprising, given the countries involved.

@paulcooper8818

3 күн бұрын

The actions of America's military and congress were insufficient, arrogant and shameful.

@massimoamodeo2455

3 күн бұрын

During the 80s I was learning to ski at Occlini pass, in south Tyrol. Multiple times I saw Italian and American planes flying past at no more than 40m above parked cars and restaurants.

@user-qv4np3ur5w

3 күн бұрын

As an American too, I hate to say I already knew how this was going to end. They’re never held accountable.

@itchyshizle

3 күн бұрын

@@paulcooper8818 You could say that about their entire history. Not just this occassion.

@paulcooper8818

3 күн бұрын

@@itchyshizle I wouldn't say the entire history, but certainly there are more examples than this one instance.

The fact that a country worth literal trillions of dollars.. having to be _forced_ to pay compensation after "accidentally" killing 20 innocent people is utterly abhorrent. USA should be ashamed of itself.... AGAIN.

@toastoverlord2166

3 күн бұрын

It appalls me too, but it doesn't surprise me, our congress would do anything to not have to take responsibility for something.

@princessmarlena1359

3 күн бұрын

As an American I say “Good luck with that…” though I don’t disagree with you at all.

@SoManyRandomRamblings

2 күн бұрын

@@toastoverlord2166 agreed our congress is fully against accountability

@loganmeline9233

2 күн бұрын

What do you mean, "AGAIN"? That was a shame. All countries have reason for shame. Stick to the specific incident.

@jtgd

2 күн бұрын

@@loganmeline9233no no. “America bad!”

I used to know one of the young Belgian who died in that accident. She was 23 and just finished her law studies. I can not describe how devastated her parents were during years after that. The trial was a real violence for this family, the never really recovered. 😢

@Jazzinthedark84

2 күн бұрын

I'm so sorry for your loss and for her family. No one should be made to endure this

@DTAM-Aviationshorts290

Күн бұрын

I couldn’t imagine the anger and devastation they must have felt

I remember watching the "Seconds from Disaster" epidode about thus tragedy where they interviewed obe or two of the pilots. He had no remorse at all and in fact was still mad that they got court marshalled. That interview convinced me 100% the crew is guilty as sin and were flying low on purpose and videotaping it to feed their egos.

@Ozymandias1

3 күн бұрын

It's a scary thought that he may now be flying airliners.

@pomerau

3 күн бұрын

@@Ozymandias1 That's what I was wondering. Freedom of information and all that. Someone must know.

@Unownshipper

2 күн бұрын

I must've missed that episode of "SFD." I loved that show, it reminds me a lot of this channel. Still, I don't think I would try to find that one and watch it. Hearing one or more of the pilots try to defend themselves would make my blood boil. Some people wrap themselves in their own lies like a comfort blanket. Eventually they start to believe it wholeheartedly; it's a defense mechanism. Or they're just a sociopath and utterly lack compassion.

@sarahr9894

2 күн бұрын

@@Unownshipper it's season 4 episode 8 I'm pretty sure. If you look up "seconds from disaster cable car collision" you'll find a few reuploads. I really like the show as well.

Arguing the maps were outdated when they didnt even unpack the new map is huge 🤣

@user-qo2ym5ek8f

2 күн бұрын

given that the cable car was operating for several decades (even before the 1976 disaster) how 'outdated' were those maps ? were they drawn from reconnaissance photos of WW 2 ?

@pavelslama5543

2 күн бұрын

@@user-qo2ym5ek8f Taken from Mussolini´s own hands back in ´45 probably :D

El toro poopoo. 'We didn't know we were so low.' (basically 1,700 ft. below legal flight limits). That would be like saying, "I looked out the window of a glass elevator and I didn't know if I was on the 4th or 40th floor because the indicator light didn't work.'

@SoManyRandomRamblings

2 күн бұрын

@@craigpridemore7566 perfect analogy. Lol

I'm Italian and I was 6 when this disaster occurred. I still remember the newspapers, the outrage, the television news, and the anger and disappointment after they all got to walk free in the end. I don't think I've ever met an Italian (of about my age or older) that _didn't_ believe it all happened due to a deliberate choice in unprofessional conduct

@Unownshipper

2 күн бұрын

As an American who's learning about this event for the first time, I'm appalled. There aren't adequate words. The loss of innocent lives is horrifying, the blatant misconduct of the crew both during the event and afterwards is sickening, and the reluctance of our government to provide compensation is shameful. They were clearly hotdogging, and when they got caught, they lied and destroyed evidence of their crime. It's unfathomable they weren't suitably punished.

@fluxvisionimagery

2 күн бұрын

I was deployed to Aviano at that time. I had bricks thrown through my windshield and/or eggs thrown at my car every time I left the base.

The anger towards the Americans even appeared in a sopranos episode, during filming an old man shouts at Paulie 'you cut our ski-lift cable”

@jonusjonus9271

3 күн бұрын

I remember that line! I always wondered what he meant by that. Thanks.

@thingywotsit9246

2 күн бұрын

@@jonusjonus9271 Is that the episode where he goes to Italy and hates it? So funny.

@darraghmckenna9127

2 күн бұрын

@@thingywotsit9246 yes !

I find it incredibly hard to believe that tape was burned because a smiling face on camera might have become bad optics in the media. I think it more likely held evidence of just how reckless they were actually being.

As an American I'm so sorry to the families of the victims, I 100% believe they were acting carelessly and our disgusting response as a country to not help those effected or hold these men accountable

@biazacha

3 күн бұрын

I 100% believe they were showing off and flying under the cables, the burned tape probably documented all of that.

You covered this incident in one of your first videos. KZread age restricted the video making it harder to find. I'm glad you redid this. The American government acted so horribly in this case. Truly an injustice to the victims and families involved.

The pilot should be held responsible for. He ultimately made the decisions to operate that craft. We all know that tape had all the details we needed to show negligence.

It pissed a lot of us off here in America as well. IIRC, the story was that it was a rite of passage for pilots from that base to fly under the cables.

@SoManyRandomRamblings

2 күн бұрын

@@delorbb2298 I am willing to bet money that they would do that...which is why the tape was burned....because anything visual could be redacted for "security reasons", I am willing to be it was the audio of that recording they feared.

@delorbb2298

2 күн бұрын

@@SoManyRandomRamblings After it happened, the people who lived there said pilots did this all the time. That they knew the cables were there and were actively trying to buzz through it.

@SoManyRandomRamblings

2 күн бұрын

@@delorbb2298 not surprised, disgusted by them, but sadly not surprised

Two "experienced" pilots, flying a plane, couldn't tell the difference between 80 meters and 610 meters. They had been reprimanded for flying too low and fast before this disaster. So why were they allowed to keep flying? The captain's sentence for the death of 20 people was ridiculous, and the navigator should have been jailed for destruction of evidence. And even though compensation was promised by the US, it had to be enforced and paid through treaty laws. Utterly shocking and shameful. RIP to the 20 victims

The story of the "faulty altitude dial" doesnt wash. There is a barometric altimeter in front of each of the two pilots, and a third one in between them. And there is a radar altimeter. Are we to believe that all four were faulty AND that all four showed the SAME incorrect altitude? That stretches credibility beyond elastic limit.

@tezzanoia

3 күн бұрын

Not only that, but that difference between lowest allowed height and their actual height is HUGE, you can't tell me that even IF (and I agree that that's more than unlikely) all altimeters didn't work correctly, they weren't able to tell that they were flying significantly lower. I'd maybe get that with being 50 m too low, but over 500 m??

@vicvega3614

3 күн бұрын

​@@tezzanoia yea all 4 of them should've gone to prison for 10 years or more

@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus

3 күн бұрын

@@vicvega3614 The two men in the back can't see out the front, have no altimeters, and can't do anything to adjust the altitude of the aircraft in any case. Yet you want to put them in prison for 10 years? Care to explain why?

@kittysplode

3 күн бұрын

@@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus if you were in the back seat egging your friend on to drive like a lunatic and he ran over some kids i 100% promise you there would be charges against you.

@marcorizzoni9766

3 күн бұрын

Also, they had been already reprimanded several times for flying too low in the same area. So, unless that few is veeeery unlucky with the altimeters of their aircraft, they were clearly unrepentant hotdoggers…

Man. This just keeps getting worse for those marines. Absolute idiots. You can very easily tell the difference between 200 and 2,000 feet. They should be serving life in prison.

@Commentator541

3 күн бұрын

That may be a bit too harsh, but should definitely be set to work day and night until they pay off the gondola and abut a billion usd per victim. If they are as clever as they thought they are it would be paid off in no time.

@PhilipMarcYT

3 күн бұрын

​@@Commentator54120 people died and you're saying it's too harsh? Tf.

@GenXfrom75

3 күн бұрын

@@PhilipMarcYTlife for an accident? It wasn’t murder.

@Black-Swan-007

3 күн бұрын

Life is usually reserved for 1st Degree Murder, not negligence leading to accidental manslaughter.

@GarrettsGear

3 күн бұрын

It's really adorable out the people in this comment section have no idea how the law works lol.

I call BS all day on the sticking gauge. I was an Aviation Electricians Mate in the Navy. I worked on the altitude systems. The age of the aircraft wouldn't have anything to do with the altimeter sticking. That isn't something that would be a fixed piece of equipment. Gauges get swapped out as needed. Then they are put through a complete altitude simulation. I hated that test set. That also wouldn't be the only altitude reference they would have to go by. That was complete deflection trying to blame the maintainers.

The EA-6B was a heavily modified version of the A-6 Intruder attack jet. It carried a very extensive EW radar detection and jamming system, a very precise navigation system, superb low level flight characteristics, and with a crew of 4, a heightened level of situational awareness in the cockpit. Jamming and mapping enemy radar emitters was it's job. That mapping had to be precise, so that the intel could be passed on to the Wild Weasels, who could then destroy the emitters with ARMs or some other appropriate ordnance. What I'm leading up to is that the pilot and crew knew exactly where they were, and the cable as well, but the pilot was hot dogging the plane and misjudged how close he was to the cable. He saw it and intended to cut it close, but ended up hitting it. Pure pilot error and poor judgement. IMHO.

@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus

3 күн бұрын

I believe everything you said to be true, up until "He saw it". Cables slung across valleys are nearly invisible. I frequently fly in mountainous terrain. Cables slung across valleys have huge orange balls hung from the middle of them. Without the warning balls the cables are invisible in most conditions. The slightest haze, the sun in your eyes, the cable(s) disappear, and I'm only flying at 80-90 knots. An EA-6B can fly over 550 knots, as it was noted the pilot was flying too fast, there's no way he saw that cable.

@AudieHolland

3 күн бұрын

@@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus "See that cable car packed with Eurotrash? Let's give them an American fly by!!! YEEHAW"

@CoreKatalyst

2 күн бұрын

Could I ask what “hot dogging” means? Second comment I’ve seen mention this and I’m curious!

@paulmayo6006

2 күн бұрын

​@@CoreKatalystbasically "showing off", or trying to show how cool they are.

@calvinlee1813

2 күн бұрын

​@@CoreKatalystHot-dogging, Flat Hatting, those are terms for flying outside of normal parameters. Thinking buzzing a control tower or hangar.

From an American, I am appalled at this and have been ever since I stumbled across the story one night in college when I was surfing Wikipedia. Deliberately destroying evidence and misleading investigators after accidentally killing almost 2 dozen people, and they walked away free…we should’ve either thrown them in prison ourselves or let them try to figure out a way to get themselves proven innocent in an Italian court of law (which, spoiler, they probably wouldn’t have done). It’s a travesty, and my heart breaks for the families of those who perished because a couple of U.S Marine pilots decided to be stupid.

also burning the video tape gave him more alibi against him, he did something stupid.

I'm a pilot myself and have seen very detailed breakdowns of the disaster. The fact is, this crew was very well known for hotdogging and they took an LAS mission to mean "fly as low as you like and pretend you're in a Top Gun movie." Even the act of *taping* themselves should have got them court-martialed. Burning the tape afterward would have been taken in near any court as "consciousness of guilt" and absolutely as obstruction of justice and destroying evidence. It didn't take very much time at all for the crew to put two and two together while airborne and realize they'd hit a cable - and exactly what that meant. By the time they landed, they already had all their false alibis prepared and their stories straight. And the US military *always* covers for its own. Because of KZread limitations the OP couldn't show most of the photos taken of the destroyed gondola, but I've seen the real pictures the Italians took. The snow was covered in blood and body parts. The impact force was estimated to be 250+gs - far more than any human body can remain intact through. And those pictures were published throughout the Italian media. I would have been baying for their blood too, if it was my relative that got killed like that.

Genuinely just one of the most disgusting miscarriages of justice in history

Insane. The fact that this crew got away with killing 20 ppl; it is obvious they were well aware of what they were doing. And destroying the evidence?! C’mon. Anyone can see through their bs. This case should be brought forward to the public eye, again, and have some proper justice served this time round.

It would have been an accident, if they had not lived, worked, and flown there for 2 years. Even without maps, they knew there were skilifts in the area. Most likely looking at the pretty tourist girls skiing on the mountain.

Wow they basically said "We investigated ourselves and found us innocent" huh.

@clray123

3 күн бұрын

Kinda like those responsible for covid.

@axelbrackeniers5488

3 күн бұрын

Kinda like the US government when any incident happens.

@chaminadecrew79

3 күн бұрын

@@axelbrackeniers5488 keep crying about it

@axelbrackeniers5488

3 күн бұрын

@@chaminadecrew79 nice rage bait buddy. I personally know the grandchildren of immigrants from Laos that came to Europe because their whole country was carpetbombed by the US. Laos didnt even partake in the Vietnam war, nor were they harboring Viet Cong. The Viet Cong simply retreated into Laos and the US saw that as a good opportunity to kill 200K civilians. Thats more casualties than the 2 nuclear bombs on japan.

@neilkurzman4907

2 сағат бұрын

@@clray123 no because there was no investigation into was Covid real. And nobody found themselves innocent. Who found themselves innocent the Chinese take a dump on some other post. 💩

Even if their altimeter was faulty, which was clearly a lie, any pilot could tell the difference between the 80 metres they were flying and the minimum permitted 610 metres. They should all be serving life sentences but of course the US military acquitted their own.

@GenXfrom75

3 күн бұрын

The US Military doesn’t often acquit “their own.”

@domesticterrorist483

3 күн бұрын

Every plane has redundancy in primary flight instruments, the co pilot has his own set, so they knew full well what their altitude was at all times.

@yorgokarna6801

3 күн бұрын

@@GenXfrom75 it most certainly does

@GenXfrom75

3 күн бұрын

@@yorgokarna6801 ok. 👌 guess that’s why so many service members are currently serving sentences in places like Leavenworth.

@yorgokarna6801

3 күн бұрын

@@GenXfrom75 that's the exception rather than the rule. You are either being deliberately obtuse or you are clueless about what your country does.. Either way, putting down that star spangled banner for a bit might help you see more clearly if you want to see the truth that is 🤷

He forgot to mention that the first responders to this disaster discovered that all of the victims' faces were contorted in fear and terror. Several of them hugging each other trying to comfort themselves in their last moments. Truly horrifying and heartbreaking 😱

@WildSuppositions

2 күн бұрын

If that's true then they most likely saw the jet flying in their direction. Truly appalling that they had no real consequences for their reckless behavior.

If the pilot was willing to burn the tape and suffer the consequences, it must've been really bad. I wouldn't be surprised if the officer bet or challenged the pilot to fly under that wire.

Easily the most enraging example, but certainly not the only one, of how US units in Italy treat our country as their playground, certain that they will never be persecuted for it. Disgusting.

@user-qv4np3ur5w

3 күн бұрын

As an American, I’m so sorry for that. I’m not in the military but I do believe if you’re stationed abroad, you should be prosecuted by that country you’re in if you kill someone. I was also outraged they walked. Outside of the military, I don’t know a single American citizen who thought this was fair or just. We were disgusted.

@robertcox1835

2 күн бұрын

Not just Italy. Wherever th US has bases, personnel are protected by the status of forces agreement which basically puts them above local laws.

@meetoo594

2 күн бұрын

@@robertcox1835 Yup, there was a case in the UK last year where the wife of a US serviceman killed a teenager on a moped by driving on the wrong side of the road at speed. They flew her back to America and she has faced no charges and of course the US govt wont extradite her back to the UK, they never do (see also, IRA terrorists and fundraisers}.

This, Ridge Alkonis, now the recent "forced copulation" in Okinawa. It's not often talked about but there's no crime a US serviceman can commit that the US won't defend.

@ligmasack9038

3 күн бұрын

Except that the claims out of Okinawa are 90% false, as the Locals are still Salty about the U.S. giving them to Japan at the end of the War.

@crazeelazee7524

3 күн бұрын

@@ligmasack9038 Yup, here's an American defending 🍇ists in his army. Like clockwork.

@axelbrackeniers5488

3 күн бұрын

Dont forget the carpetbombing and complete destruction of Laos when they werent even a member of the Vietnam war.

@crazeelazee7524

3 күн бұрын

@@ligmasack9038 > American defending "forceful copulators" Like clockwork

@crazeelazee7524

3 күн бұрын

@@ligmasack9038 Oh look, an American defending those crimes. What a surprise 🙄

This was not the first time a Marine EA6B squadron’s negligence and recklessness has caused death and destruction of innocent lives. In 1981 a Marine EA6B crashed on board the USS Nimitz due to overindulging in cold medicine. 14 were killed and 45 seriously wounded.

They were horseplaying and filming inside the cockpit with video camera, later burning the tape (destroyed the evidence), got away with it.

So much for "Marine Core Honour".

It’s 5am here in America. I’ve tossed and turned all night, opening KZread to try and get some relief, and I’m reminded how nice it is to follow content-makers in the UK - 6 hours ahead.

@PhilipMarcYT

3 күн бұрын

They're 5/6 hours ahead depending if it's DST or not (it is now).

I hate coverups. They KNEW they were too low. Even if the dial was faulty they knew it and they didn't gain altitude. The military should NOT have aided a coverup. And Italy should not have had to use treaties to ensure compensation was paid out.

Sometimes I wonder what people like this are doing now. Ashby, for instance. Is he working a regular job? Do his coworkers know he's a killer? Is he using an assumed name?

@ChaosMagnet

3 күн бұрын

If he hasn’t changed his name, it’s almost guaranteed that his coworkers know. Someone always googles the new guy’s name, and a juicy bit of gossip like that would make its way around an office at warp speed!

@spitfire_2

2 күн бұрын

I was wondering the same thing.

@kila11

2 күн бұрын

His co-workers subscribe to Fascinating Horror.... "uhhhhhh hey guy, something you wanna tell us?"

4 months in prison for murdering 20 innocent people. Disgusting.

Ashby and Schweitzer should've been forced to help clean up their mess as punishment. This was hugely embarrassing, and I was angry at the hubris these US Airmen had.

@aquachonk

3 күн бұрын

I'm even angrier at my country for not compensating the families nor disciplining the criminals properly.

@AndreasGlad-rq7vx

3 күн бұрын

No.

@michaelkantner6420

2 күн бұрын

Sorry to correct you, but they aren't Airmen. That term is usually reserved for the Air Force, these officers were Marines.

@jenniferlonnes7420

2 күн бұрын

@@michaelkantner6420 No prob.

@michaelkantner6420

2 күн бұрын

@@jenniferlonnes7420 I appreciate it very much.

Your lost cable car video had me searching up related incidents. The amount of times the government has killed people with low flying planes or plane related incidents like this, and got away with it with little to no repercussion is disgusting...

@njwpoo666

2 күн бұрын

Not just American!

@Lady.Starlight.

2 күн бұрын

@@njwpoo666 I didn't say American!

Literally nobody believes they weren't showing off. This was shameful.

Yeah, i am just gonna go ahead and call bs on the crews excuses.

As an Australian, I'm quite used to seeing US servicemen getting off virtually scott free. We see many USN vessels here. And there never fails to be a case of a couple of guys doing something that should get them serious jail time only for them to get away with it.

@NINE93THREE

3 күн бұрын

Maybe you should spend less time watching sailors getting off 😂

Classic imperial defense "I'm too stupid to be responsible for the deaths of foreigners"

As an American I am appalled by and deeply ashamed of this incident. I am so sorry for my country's behavior.

Not sure which is scarier, negligence from the company running the cable car, or negligence from an air crew that you got no clue was even in the area EDIT: THe negligence part was in reference to the first disaster in 1976, to clear that up

@Zimin_Anatoly2000

3 күн бұрын

I know the worst part: all the crew members were acquitted of manslaughter.

@notapplicable531

3 күн бұрын

Where do you find negligence on the part of the cable car company? It's not as if the cable car ran off course.

@jacekatalakis8316

3 күн бұрын

@@notapplicable531 Negligence in regards to the 1976 disaster, not the 1998 one

Basically, never get on a cable car is what I'm gathering

@paninipanini

3 күн бұрын

Never do anything. There might American military staff nearby waiting to take your life and never face any consequences

@marvinidler2289

3 күн бұрын

They are quite safe, actually. Accidents are very rare.

@searchanddiscover

3 күн бұрын

especially after that accident in Italy in 2021. video footage of it and everything.

@molybdomancer195

3 күн бұрын

@@paninipaninior wives of US military attaches might drive on the wrong side of the road, kill someone and also get away with it

@chaminadecrew79

3 күн бұрын

@@paninipanini please please keep crying

I was in the brig at Camp LeJeune when these guys were in there. Needless to say, they were in solitary and no one could look at them when they were being transported around.

I'm a pilot. I love our Naval aviators and did everything I could to see this incident impartially as it was unfolding in front of the world at that time. These guys screwed the pooch and got off easy. But for the grace God, there go I. Tragic, horrific, embarrassing, and sad.

Love your content. It's informative and respectful. Keep up the good work!

Those pilots were monkeying around, flew far too low and fast, caused a serious accident/tragedy that was avoidable, and destroyed evidence…it’s a poor craftsman who blames the tools, and a poor pilot and navigator who blames the aircraft/equipment.

the guy who unknowingly caused the first disaster was jailed for 9 months without really being able to do anything against the matter of fact he was just told what to do and did it. these guys just went in and killed 15 people for fun and walk free its disgusting

@HeatherSealey

3 күн бұрын

You're numbers are off, my friend.

@uchiwalaumdilala

3 күн бұрын

@@HeatherSealey what do you mean he was sentenced to 4 years and was released after 9 months its what he said in the video.

@uchiwalaumdilala

3 күн бұрын

@@HeatherSealey also its your* your grammar is off, my friend. Or did you mean "you are numbers are off, my friend." ?

@uchiwalaumdilala

3 күн бұрын

@@HeatherSealey wait im an asshole they killed 20 people, my bad

@chaminadecrew79

3 күн бұрын

pls cry more

As an American, I feel disgusted by this. My sympathies & condolences go out to all of those poor people who were murdered -- Yes, I said that right -- by such irresponsible & reckless marines, as well as to their families & friends for this horrible tragedy. It breaks my heart to know that my countrymen did something like that to 20 innocent civilians & escaped justice for their crimes.

The worst part of this is the pilot got off scot free.

You just wouldn't believe it would you? Two accidents on the same cable car line. They should never have been flying there!! There is plenty of room in other places to fly low.

@ja37d-34

3 күн бұрын

Was the second even an accident?

@davidglass5742

3 күн бұрын

In 2013 six Russians were killed in a snowmobile crash at Cavalese. They were descending an illuminated piste at night when the driver switched to an unlit black run, lost control and crashed into a ravine. The area is a disaster magnet. Great skiing, though.

@SoManyRandomRamblings

2 күн бұрын

@@rachaelcourtnell7275 I think they destroyed the tape cuz the audio would reveal that they intended to fly below the wire, fully knowing how risky it was.

As PIC, you are responsible for the operation of the craft. Low-level flight? Eyes better be OUTSIDE the cockpit. 300+ knots at 200 ft? Eyes are definitely outside.

I can't imagine being on one of those clean up crews .

A travesty of justice. Absolutely disgusting.

When your last video popped up about the cable car accident, I immediately thought you were going to talk about this incident, I had no idea both happened in the same place. I feel so sorry for all the families.

Blaming the altimeter on you flying WAYYY lower is such BS. They clearly didn't care about the flying rules and immediately wanted to cover it up. Them all getting off essentially free after killing 20 people is such a classic .ove of both the US and specifically the military.

I was flying The EA-6B at the time of the incident. There were a number of actions taken that were not covered in this video. All EA=6B flights weather in the Marines or Navy were restricted to no lower than 5000 feet above the ground except for takeoff and landing. Two of the Marine Squadron Commanders were relieved of duty. The four crew Memeber were removed from many of their qualifications. The entire Prowler community took the incident very seriously.

The American military murdering innocent civilians without any consequence? That tracks.

@cariboocustomwoodworks6528

3 күн бұрын

Imperialism at its finest.

@chaminadecrew79

3 күн бұрын

please cry more about it

@pavelslama5543

2 күн бұрын

Well, the classical archetype of a typical American exists for a reason...

@elisehalflight

23 сағат бұрын

@chaminadecrew79 As a Mexican, why should I cry? I'll just laugh as more of my people pour into your country

There is no possible way a trained pilot could not visually tell the difference between 260ft and 2000+ ft without having to rely on instruments. These men are lying

I learned about this disaster at "Seconds from disaster".

@abbieconnie2012

3 күн бұрын

Same

@lenshibo

3 күн бұрын

same

@5amH45lam

3 күн бұрын

I learned about "Seconds From Disaster" from this comment.

@lukab6246

3 күн бұрын

Me too and I absolutely reccomend it to everybody who is interested in such cases.

@timnoel511

3 күн бұрын

Me too

burning the tape is beyond suss

@Rose_Castle

3 күн бұрын

Aww, but he got six whole-, sorry....FOUR whole months prison /sarcasm

Thank you and have a great week.

Sickening injustice. Italy should have demanded the all American bases be closed.

@jonusjonus9271

3 күн бұрын

I agree, we should leave all of Europe to. Let them deal with putin, hes Europe's problem now. He was never a serious threat to us anyway.

@HeatherSealey

3 күн бұрын

​@@jonusjonus9271You're an idiot if you truly believe that. But that tracks, I guess, considering America's commitment to dumbing down your entire country.

@Koreviking

3 күн бұрын

@@jonusjonus9271Putin is a problem to Europe BECAUSE we stupidly let you guys keep US military personnel and equipment here. But sure - piss off, as you always do when you have caused chaos and unrest somewhere. Leave us to deal with the attackers, as we did in WWII. We’ll manage without you this time, too.

@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus

3 күн бұрын

That would be like stabbing yourself because your mad at your neighbour.

that was 2 years after top gun came out, likely they were just showing off

@dhc5tech41

3 күн бұрын

12, but you're still not wrong...

Showboating murderers. People like that are still around too - I've seen several air force pilots from Travis flying irresponsibly low over the college campus in my area to show off.

I remember this case. Didn't realize it was the same cable car service as first video. Geez, those Top Gun Maverick types.

I had a feeling this would be the next video. Send in the Marines.

Yes, the dial stuck. BS - they are pilots, they know the difference between 2000 and 200 feet. Or they have a very short career. Destroying the evidence is the evidence enough.

@jballew2239

3 күн бұрын

Let's pretend they only had one method of altitude indication. (They did not, they had MULTIPLE indicators). Now, let's pretend that instrument is reading erratically. Would the logical reaction be to 1- "Gain observable distance from the hard, hard ground and RTB to get this shit fixed", or would it be 2- "Let's go lower, and see if it starts working!". What a shitshow.

@wolcek

3 күн бұрын

@@jballew2239 I would say they still had eyes. Hell, I'm just a paraglider pilot, and sure like hell I know when I scrape my ar.e on the tree-tops.

I lived in the Po Valley in the 80's. One afternoon a fighter jet from Aviano flew over my house at an altitude of no more than 300 feet. It was deafening. Most of these pilots were hot-doggers without supervision. The supervisors (or lack of them) needed to be scrutinized too! I'm still mad about this.

If flying below the minimum safe altitude wasn't deliberate recklessness, a glance at the terrain would have alerted the crew they were way too low. Playing silly buggers, or too busy taking selfies to look out the damn window-either way, they were responsible for twenty deaths and should have been held accountable. Sweeping it under the rug has left an indelible stain on the honour of the US Air Force.

I think they were all horsing around and the tape would have proven that

As soon as he said, "American... " Some of them regard Europe as a place where you can do what the hell you please.

@EvanBear

3 күн бұрын

Only because some of our countries still owe the US for WW2. Eventually the US will fuck up political relations so badly that not even those treaties will protect their people.

@domesticterrorist483

3 күн бұрын

Well it is actually like that. There was a case where the wife of an American diplomat ran into a 19yr old and killed him while drunk driving. She fled to the US and was not extradited. US soldiers have also gone on graping sprees in Korea and Japan and walked off scott free.

@crazeelazee7524

3 күн бұрын

@@domesticterrorist483 Yup, one such example happen a week or so ago in Okinawa.

@domesticterrorist483

3 күн бұрын

@@crazeelazee7524 It is a certain 13 % demographic in the US army doing most of it.

@littlebear274

2 күн бұрын

@@domesticterrorist483 Weird racist dogwhistle when pictures of the perpetrators are generally readily available.

Remember it like yesterday this tragedy was about the most serious and preventable international incident within my life time the scars simply will not and should not ever go away . 😢🕊

RIP to those souls lost in this horrible tragedy, condolences to the families. Such a shame justice was not served here.

No cockpit black box audio recorder? Or did they "forget" to pull from the breaker

@chrisperrien7055

2 күн бұрын

Most military aircraft of that time and many of today do not have FDR's , because they are a security risk if the plane crashes and then found by an enemy.

Both people responsible for the two disasters are called "Schweitzer". Weird coincidence?

@ClockworkChainsaw

3 күн бұрын

The one in the first disaster was a scapegoat, though. (If it was the operator that was called that) He asked his coworkers what to do and was told to override. The company was at fault for their lack of training and running the cars too fast.

"On 4 March 1999, a U.S Marine Corps court-martial at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, found Marine Captain Richard J. Ashby-who on 3 February 1998 had been flying an EA-6B Prowler lower and faster than rules permitted when it severed gondola cables in Italy and sent 20 people to their deaths-**not guilty of involuntary manslaughter and homicide.** It also found him without negligence, thereby creating an uproar in Italy that threatened both Italian-American relations and the fabric of NATO's forces in that country." From the us naval board site

@L0wBap

3 күн бұрын

"After a year of painful recriminations on both sides of the Atlantic and a three-week trial, the verdict came with stunning finality this morning at the end of seven hours of deliberation over two days: "Captain Richard J. Ashby, this court finds you, of all the specifications and charges, not guilty," said Col. William T. Snow, president of the jury." Washington post, Steve Vogel

This pisses me off. They should’ve been held accountable. Even if the gear really was faulty they clearly should’ve known better. They were negligent at the very least.

Those Marines should be doing life without parole in an Italian prison for this.

@zeropoint216

3 күн бұрын

NATO says no

@alexjackson4669

3 күн бұрын

Burning the guncam footage wasn't accidental.​@@knabdank

@csn6234

3 күн бұрын

Make me a turkey pot pie

@dfuher968

3 күн бұрын

This was a scandal all over Europe, that the US, again, refused to let their citizen be tried on the court of the country, where they had committed their crime, instead claiming they would handle it in a court martial, that was then a complete joke and let them off. This was NOT an accident. A cable car is fixed, it cannot move, and it had been there for decades. There is a no fly zone for that reason, they were not allowed to be there, and they had NEVER been allowed to be there. Not just to the Italians, but all of us in Europe, this was yet another example of American hypocrisy, laws are for us, not for Americans, and another example of Americans treating us as lesser beings, who do not have the rights of sovereign countries to enforce our laws, when Americans are involved. Another example of Americans being able to break laws in other countries, even kill innocent ppl, with impunity. "nah accidents happen". Really @knabdank? U have no idea, how outraged I am right now, as if this happened yesterday and not 26 years ago. That was the exact cavalier, that Americans showed us, again, in this incident. And Americans wonder, why ur enemies hate u and want to kill u, and why even we, ur allies, really dont like u very much.

@vladivosdog

3 күн бұрын

nope

The fact that the highest US authorities decided not to compensate the victims of this mass murder tells one an awful lot about them.

Thank you for covering this. I've been fascinated by this case ever since I was a child and it dominated the news for weeks, because it happened very close. The images of the smashed cable car and blood covered snow are seared into my memory.

My insomnia paid off in a positive way for once

@florentinepogen

3 күн бұрын

Lol today is gonna suck at work

@MoeRon004

3 күн бұрын

Hey someone to relate to

@chatteyj

3 күн бұрын

Get more exercise and chew some valerian root. - fight club probably can skip the valerian root and just do more exercise, get that heart pumping

The EA-B6 Prowler is an electronic warfare aircraft. It sends out jamming signals. There is ZERO need for them to fly low to the ground, and the plane is not made or equipped with LAV. The dumbasses were playing around and they all should have been court-martialed and did hard time in military prison.

@stargazer5784

3 күн бұрын

There could be combat scenarios that might require low level flight skills to be used prior to engaging in jamming activities at a higher altitude, but yeah, you're essentially correct. They were hot dogging the jet and screwed up big time. The truly sickening thing was the poor post accident handling of the incident.

@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus

3 күн бұрын

Flying low in mountainous terrain is self defense 101 in tactical aviation. You avoid detection by staying behind a ridgeline. The ridgeline blocks sight, sound, and radar detection. And yes, they were dumbasses.

@SoManyRandomRamblings

2 күн бұрын

@@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus so just ignore the importance of situational awareness and how critical that is....or utilizing resources appropriately (i.e. using the new maps you were provided with). Also ignore how many years those pilots had been flying at that specific base and how it's not like the gondola was some new feature just built.

@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus

2 күн бұрын

@@SoManyRandomRamblings All I've been saying is that the two in the back weren't responsible. Nothing else.

@SoManyRandomRamblings

2 күн бұрын

@@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus that isn't in any of the wording you used....but go ahead keep claiming whatever 🙄

Wow! What a story! You never fail to make me thankful for finding your content and learning of new things. It makes my walk through life more circumspect. Thank you for your work, Sir!

Barometric attitude indicators of the analogue kind do stick, however, there is a vibrating dither motor to prevent this. It's known as "Stiction" in the aviation world. The American pilot using this as an excuse doesn't add up!

"Murderers" in my Sméagol voice

I was curious if their discharge from the military was dishonorable or honorable. I found that Ashby’s was dishonorable, and I’m figuring the same was true for the navigator.