Sad to see most people bash on cat. Hearing Cat explain their product strategy makes everything clear. I feel like a lot of people will be blown away with the 858.

@camaro69green31

10 ай бұрын

Blown away with the Catalyst all together. Lots of 800 guys will be pissed when the 600 hangs with them or beats them.

@Icutmetal

9 ай бұрын

Some people just aren’t happy until other people aren’t.

@denniswilder3014

9 ай бұрын

​@@camaro69green314 percent lighter than the 600 3/4 of a inch lower motor and 3/4 of a inch closer to center of yhe bulkhead. Then it has more torque and peak power than last years 800 that was fast in its own right. Now way a 600 hangs with this sled

@markmacdonald6452

9 ай бұрын

Too late to the party, both Ski-Doo and Polaris have normally aspirated 850’s and turbo variants as well, Polaris even offers a 900. Cat had a chance to at least bring a 650 to the mid range sleds, but chose to build a new 600 for some reason. I like the direction they are going, but think it’s too little, too late.

@clarknawrocki9718

9 ай бұрын

Maybe if the bulkhead didn't crack on firecats and they didn't use cheap bearings for the jack shaft the list goes on people wouldn't bad mouth artic cat

I'm rooting for Cat. New chassis and engine sounds awesome and like many others, I hope they offer both dual and single rail skid options. I love my 18 M8 with the CTEC2.

@yuriyavdeev1105

8 ай бұрын

Got a 2018 m8 as well tried the alpha didn’t really like it all that much

@1977jhall

7 ай бұрын

I just got an 18’ M8000 162. Stoked to get it out. Feels great.

@yuriyavdeev1105

7 ай бұрын

@@1977jhall just got a 2018 m8 153 haven’t tried it yet I’m coming from a 2015 m8

@jlo13800

6 ай бұрын

Unlike Achates Power these 2 strokes are a reality!

Your first catalyst podcast single handedly made me sell my high country and order an M 146. This haydays one was the cherry on top. I also want an ibexx turbo hahaha. Tou guys do a great podcast. So frickin pumped for CAT and the CATALYST

Great interview! Those are Smart guys at Arctic Cat! Can’t wait for my Catalyst ZR RXC to show up!

Great content, thanks! Hopefully I can catch a demo day in New England

I’m from the Midwest and am a trail rider. At heart I’m a ski doo guy but I love seeing cat hang in there and keep innovating. I hope that these manufacturers can get reliability and pricing under control

I ride the trails and tails for Northern Minnesota, Wisconsin and UP of Michigan and the huge majority of broken motors we run accross on the lakes and trails are Polaris and Ski Doo’s , like riding a grenade !!

Needed this on youtube. The 858 is gonna make some people upset

@pajamatime5750

10 ай бұрын

In what way?

@boser1212

10 ай бұрын

In 2025?

@fasterdura1772

10 ай бұрын

It sure is.

@hyphymikey3351

5 ай бұрын

How you figure ?

Great podcast!

What about the new Garmin instrument cluster? I hope you can dive into that soon. Great convo though. Keep it up with this type of content!

Why the resistance for the Alpha rail? I have ridden both and MUCH prefer the single rail. So fun!

i have been a cat rider for 30+ years and back in the late 90s (?) when the A-arm patent ran out i was in the local Polaris dealers showroom doing some flooring work when i fist seen they had changed over from the "best suspension ever" trailing arms. i knew the owner well and his salespeople, i started giving them a hard time about the switch to the cat suspension, boy were they ever getting upset. they still tried to defend the trailing arms but a year later they were all in on the A-arms. every time i seen the guys i would give them shit about it and they would have to admit the cat front end was the king. other brands have had some nice innovations over the years, but if you look at the BIG changes in the snowmobiles that made market wide impacts, it has been cat that has made them. i don't know if everyone will go to a single Alpha rail, but you can bet money they will start bringing them closer together for that track flex on sidehills.

@dskofich

10 ай бұрын

AND NOW POLARIS HAS THE BEST FRONT END SO WHATS YA POINT????????

@brandon65678

10 ай бұрын

Let’s not forget batteryless efi

@GreatLakesLogger

10 ай бұрын

People aren't gonna switch to the alpha rail. Not everyone wants to replace rails and tracks every year.

@defmc1

9 ай бұрын

The alpha rail is a gimmick. Props for wanting to innovate, but they are an inferior design. People spend 20k on a sled and they want the rail and track to last more than 2 years.

@defmc1

9 ай бұрын

Don't forget that Polaris did the belt drive. Cat isn't to good to not put that in their machines now. There are a 1000 Doos and Poos to every 1 Cat on the mountain. To say they have come up with all the major innovations is a flat out lie. A arms and trailing arms is not the measurement of best innovation ever, but I guess cat guys need something.

For YEARS and Years I have always argued with my Doo and Polaris buddies how much better my Cat's handles and were so much stronger than Trailing arms..... They all supported Trailing arm suspension. Then.... Doo and Polaris totally abandoned the inferior TA designs and when to A-arms. Next they will copy Cat's laydown Twins which they have been building since 2002. Keep up the good work Cat.

@davidkendall1614

10 ай бұрын

You look at this Cat and see what SKI-DOO STARTED with REV

@camaro69green31

10 ай бұрын

@@davidkendall1614 Ski-doo definitely started the full rider forward concept. The biggest innovation probably in snowmobile history. Agreed. However they all borrow concepts / designs from each other just like any other industry. The Catalyst looks like it's taking it to another level again. Loving it! Haven't heard a negative thing about it yet.

@davidkendall1614

9 ай бұрын

@@camaro69green31 Totally agree with you. Including AC’s leading with the A-arms on a snowmobile (although they were already on cars), and EFI when others were still running carbs. And yes, the Catalyst looks sharp. 👍

Lol 😂 when the Firecat 700 was eating other manufacturers 800 s for lunch !! The 03 Firecat was a monster !!

@deanomatic5129

8 ай бұрын

getting the zr 129 atac. i hope it is a hit like my 03 F7. that F7 still runs with much bigger sleds.

I think for turbo options, Cat shouldn't worry about it... the aftermarket community will probably take care of it. Heck maybe Cat could work with a 3rd party to get it to match up perfectly for the 858. Next is finding room and balance to fit it under the hood. Would be funny to have like a quick swappable system to go from an Alpha rail to a Twin rail, and back again on changing snow conditions as the year changes from winter towards spring; make the new Catalyst compatible for both, that way customers could have only 1 sled but two track options.

Big problem is with beavis thinking the alpha is the only setup for mountain riding. Literally holding back cat from making more sales. I personally prefer the alpha. But it is definitely not for everyone or every condition. The setup has superior traction in deep loose snow vs a twin. It really falls behind in most other snow conditions though. Most prone to a washout in hard snow, especially if you haven't adjusted your riding style as some of us have since the alpha came out in 19. Also sometimes there is just too much traction for setup/hard/icy snow. In those conditions it's more favorable to have a stiff edge to cut a shelf to support the sled. In those times it also helps for the track to spin and creep. The alpha track just hooks hard and doesn't feel as controllable with blips of throttle. I really love the alpha, that being said I don't like riding hard setup snow so I simply do not need a twin for what I ride. There are, however, thousands of riders who ride all sorts of conditions. Whether it's the conditions you ride, not being confident a single rail will perform the way you prefer or just stick with a twin cuz that's what you know. And you're not willing to risk 15k on something you may not like. Cat and beavis are leaving alot of potential customers high and dry for an arctic cat option in the mountains. I'm sure in 2019 when the alpha came out. Those outsold twin rails. But that was the hype train and everyone wanted to try the new thing. I think alot of people found out the alpha wasn't what they wanted and would rather go back to a twin. Well guess what cat quit offering that. So those people had to go somewhere. People who would've rather stayed on cat and gladly paid for a twin rail option. Now riding the competitions product. When they could've simply offered a twin rail option and retained that customer base. As a paying customer the more options you offer us the better. I really hope we will see cat become relevant again. Because their lack of passion (which is their motto) over the last few years has been disappointing. It's incredibly arrogant for beavis who mountain rides a fraction of the amount that riders who ride in mountain states. Decides what's best for mountain riding and what's not. Maybe when the patent runs out other brands will offer a similar option. But they ain't getting out of the twin rail business just cuz he "thinks" it's the coolest thing. That's a personal bias that's affecting cats sled sales in my opinion

@TimberTramp

6 ай бұрын

This is exactly right…the “father of the alpha rail” can’t get it through his head that it just isn’t superior in most riding conditions and in loose snow I’d argue that it isn’t a benefit in loos snow! A dual rail handles loose snow equally well! If they would listen to customers….the rmsha team runs a different suspension for a reason! They should put a carbon fiber dual rail suspension in it and these sleds will rip, lightweight air box, Ti can, and some clutching,,,,lightweight ripper!

@idah_snow25

6 ай бұрын

I've ridden with enough dual rail sleds I think the alpha is better in loose deep snow. It finds traction where the duals cant. Other conditions it isn't better though. I think they better just have a dual rail option to satisfy the customers that don't want a single rail setup though. Carbon rails are definitely unnecessary

I'm a Yamaha guy, always have been - but I am sold on the Catalyst and the new 858. And since Yamaha sleds are going away, a new Catalyst is on my radar when it's when time for a new sled.

@jlo13800

7 ай бұрын

How about an OP 1716 made from 2 858 engines like Fairbanks Morse OP 2 strokes or this thing mart.cummins.com/imagelibrary/data/assetfiles/0058689.pdf

Im def buying the 858 no doubt

So I’m hearing the 858 is lighter than the current 800, not the 600 and they made a mistake?

It will be interesting to see how well the new 850 class motor stays together compared to the Doo and Polaris 850s.

@mugger6685

9 ай бұрын

It will be better they have been testing for years they don’t just bring something out like the other 2 do.

@ayaleq

7 ай бұрын

You got that right, true tried and tested. Cat is the best! 💪💪💪

We’ll have catalysts in our fleet to test out…. We’re based out of interior BC and run in deep snow “green circle” and “blue square” alpine meadow terrain. Budget friendly All-inclusive packages from Kelowna International Airport. Tour costs can be deducted to 858 spring orders. BC Snow Concierge 🤙🏼

@BCsnowCONCIERGEdotCA

10 ай бұрын

Whoops, wrong account. To add, the alpha rail is so good in the mountain, just go easy attacking the whoops on the way to the alpine; at 230lbs, my original rail and track are still minty as the slowest guy on the trail ride out

Can't wait to ride my M600 2024!

when will we see something from Cat to compete with Ski-Doo Expedition??

The Alpha is definitely not superior in the mountains. Have ridden the Alpha and have several buddies that ride them all season long; they never can hold the same lines. There’s a reason racers switch back to dual rail. Cool concept for sure and there’s an argument to more traction but definitely not a superior setup. 🤷‍♂️ Regardless, I’ll be interested to ride the Catalyst and see what I think of the new chassis, love the competition!

It took me 3 minutes to figure out the Alpha. It took me 2 months to figure out a M sled coming of my ZX 1M 900.

Really hope Arctic Cat offers at least one M model with the dual rail skid. The Alpha rail just doesn’t seem to hold up

Love to see it. glad cat is coming up a new stuff. If I had a dollar for everytime someone told me a 600 can go anywhere and 850 can... lol

@KB-ld6ql

8 ай бұрын

I'm old. Had 25 sleds. My 50 yrs of riding has taught me. THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT!!!

I wanted to hear more about the engine.

Great video. IMO anyone that "thinks" they need a twin rail rear suspension in the mountains has not ridden the Alpha long enough. The single rail, or narrow rails like Timbersled has been doing, is better in every situation in the mountains.

@snowbell01

10 ай бұрын

I agree, those who don't like the alpha, it takes time to dial in, im talking many RIDES. not instantly, after 1 ride helps but it takes a few to re-tune your self and stop over riding it.

@boser1212

10 ай бұрын

That’s just false. I had a 2020 alpha and it was a shit sled. Not only did it crack after one day it washes out on everything. So unpredictable and squirly. I gave it two seasons and sent it down the rode. Polaris has had huge success building sleds for guys that ride technical terrain and want it to go where you point it. Skidoo has even gave in and got rid of T motion on the expert package and now the free ride for a more predictable rigid chassis. If you still want to argue a shit single rail is “ better in every situation”. Look at the market share. In BC cat MIGHT have 1% of sleds on the hill. Alpha was a failure. Go ride open bowls all you want it’s fine for that but it ends there.

@snowbell01

10 ай бұрын

@@boser1212 I've had 0 issues with wash out, the odd time in spring crusty snow but they all do it. And the rail cracking yeah, when they went to the coil shocks they bottom out too easy and the rails crack from that easy enough. I've got well over 5000km on my rail 0 issues but I'm on air shocks. To each their own, I wouldn't trade off my alpha. I've tried all the others and the rails for me. Yep Doo and poo have a way bigger market share, won't lie. Felt like cats been dieing, I mean look at what they have done or lack of since 2019 if the monorail counts otherwise 2018. At the end of the day they're all good deadly mountain sleds with their own quirks.

@hobbesbcr

10 ай бұрын

@@boser1212 😂🤣

@boser1212

10 ай бұрын

@@snowbell01 ya it’s not that I’m cheering it on. It’s sad to see such an iconic company losing so many fans. The good news is they will have a twin rail option in what looks to be a deadly new chassis with a 858 that will rip. Bad news for cat fans and the company it won’t hit the snow this season.

YES YES YES !!!

The biggest thing we find is with the alpha skid is that the tracks and rails just don’t hold up. For us in northern ab we have a 50km trail ride in a lot of the time and they tend to not handle those rides in. That’s where a twin rail option would be nice they hold up better for longevity wise! I have a 2018 mtb cat and it’s been amazing 3400km on it where all my peers with similar riding style and trail mannerisms are on their second or third rail or tracks at the same mileage. Other wise it works like a hot diggity just doesn’t last long

@jimbauerXp3

10 ай бұрын

What I do on long trails in or out of the backcountry is set front shocks on setting 3 reduces darting and I also ice cool the clips so I can run higher speeds on trails without track heat!

@shorew3

9 ай бұрын

we find the paddles chunk especially in -25c or colder days, so you have to reduce speed as well as the rods snap in the track itself. The 4 wheel axle kits do help. I would be pretty pumped if they did bring back a twin rail option for the folks that kinda tour/haul skimmers etc. Mind you thats a small demographic. @@jimbauerXp3

@nightrider2570

4 ай бұрын

Alpha for trial riding and your single rail is overheating ? Or what, trails are to rough ??

How do I get the job where I go to Cooke City in June to test a new sled!!?? I’ll do it for free! Shit, I’d pay

I don’t think most people hate on the alpha rail for performance and the way it rides I think the skepticism comes from people snapping alpha rail all the time even with the rails with all the the extra rail support

Remember the Yamaha Triples..? Two strokes..

Direct injection?

So the new VP has never been to the Island Park facility and lives in South Carolina. His football coach experience along with time at E Z Go should make him a superb snowmobile exec.

Buddyno left ... FIRED. middle your on thin ice. Right FIRED!!!!!!!

Not much on textrons colors . I like the traditional cat colors personally

I like the new chassis, new motor looks cool. Alpha…..😅

All this is great but what about having thousands of dollars and not being able to buy a new snowmobile? This new customer comes last stuff sucks. Is this build back better?

When will the Catalyst come with a 4 stroke turbo? Then it gets interesting

That guy from south Carolina is the guy who closed all the dealers in Minnesota

Stay away from a 900. The 800s and 850s are already on the reliability edge.

Personally I’m going with a turbo 600

Ditch the god awful alpha rail and then I’m 100% on board

LOL SOUTH CAROLINA🤣🤣🤣

@defmc1

9 ай бұрын

Big mountain guy.

Light is right

Cat is always playing catch up in there mountain segment lineup perhaps that because mountain sleds make up a small % of there over all sled sales

I'm a Cat guy and have been since 1981 but I am not buying alot of what they are selling. They are trying to tell me that they cannot build a bigger motor (900 or 1000) without the weight or size screwing up the Catalyst. I don't buy it. They had bigger motors 20 years ago and every time Cat put one out is was excellent. Maybe without Suzuki they can't do it? Normal for Cat would be to come out with something bigger AND better than the competition. Guess those days are gone. Now we just play catch up.

@denniswilder3014

9 ай бұрын

I disagree what they said makes sense. Can only go so big on a piston till it vibrates and causes harmonics that breaks stuff. Plus if they went to a bigger bore then the cyls gets bigger and etc. They wanted it as low as it can and as far back as they can. They are claiming the 858 is 4 percent lighter than a 600 and 3/4 of a inch lower center of gravity and 3/4 of a inch closer to yhe centerline.

@defmc1

9 ай бұрын

Sounds like you spend your days going straight up and down open bowls. Bigger heavier sleds don't technical as well. Get a yamy 4 stroke with a turbo. It will hill climb all you want. Nothing like digging big heavy beasts out of the Utah ultra powder snow all day.

@denniswilder3014

9 ай бұрын

@@defmc1 i would take a lighter center of gravity sled over a few extra horsepower any day of the week.

@denniswilder3014

9 ай бұрын

If they went up to a 900 or a thousand it would make the cyl bigger cooling bigger crank bigger pistons bigger wrist pin bigger power valve bigger etc etc. I would rather have a sled with the motor slambed low and as close to the front arm mount anyday. Going to bigger bore and stroke would what add 4-5 h.p no thanks not worth it.

Who built the engine, Artic Cat only makes decals.

Don’t make dealers in the west buy from your entire lineup! To include the Eastern spec sleds that DONT SELL IN THE WEST!

Only reason anyone’s mad is because nobody’s heard the sled

@Pascal_Robert--Rc_Creations

10 ай бұрын

Agreed, do the braaap

Listening to people talk down a turbo is kind of funny.

Too Bad they just couldn't pay Patent Royalties for Direct injection .

Cat needs a better mountain team! These guys are clueless! “It was nice to see that I had just as much fun on a 600 as the guys with the 800’s”

95% of people with turbos cannot ride them at all,they have the money to ride them.its all bar talk.look at me,im this,im that me me me…next day, that guy is the biggest inconvenience on the mountain.

@fasterdura1772

10 ай бұрын

You beat me to your response. Well worded.

@GreatLakesLogger

10 ай бұрын

The issue is maintaining the power at 8-10k feet. That's the bigger reason companies started offering turbos. Nobody rides at 2k feet.

@JAKDRZR

10 ай бұрын

@@GreatLakesLogger that’s false. We ride in 1500-3500ft all the time. All off trail and lots of hills steep enough a mountain sled can’t climb them on a big snow year.

@defmc1

9 ай бұрын

​ At 10k the sled looses 20% of its horse power. The turbo just brings it back to what it is at your elevation. I don't ride a turbo. They are great for a half day and that's it. A nice dialed NA 850 (clutched and geared) is plenty for most people.

@defmc1

9 ай бұрын

​@@JAKDRZRCome out to Utah Idaho Montana or Wyoming. Those steep mountain hills that you have at 3500 is a foothill here. 3" paddle on an 850 longtrack will go up almost anything.

So get rid of the alpha rail! Listen to the customers…

Vice president is from Carolina and they wonder why they are almost non existent in snowmobiles today.

Mr.Alpha in the green shirt has destroyed cats mountain sled. Swallow your pride and offer what the public wants. Edit: “ mark my words when the patent expires they will have one”. No no. They are going the exact opposite as you Mr. Alpha. They are building precision tree riding weapons and selling 1000 to your 1.

@idah_snow25

6 ай бұрын

I ride and really vibe with the alpha since 19. But this comment is 💯% right on the money. His personal bias has cut the cat mountain segment by more than half of its potential. When you "come out west" 3 times a year you have no credibility to talk about what is best for mountain riding. The setup is great for deep loose snow mountain terrain conditions. Most other conditions it's fairly sub par. I only ride when there's freshies so it works for me. But they are literally shooting themselves in the foot not offering a twin rail option. There plenty of people who want to ride and spend their money on a cat in the mountains, but DO NOT want an alpha setup

Cracks me up "a little squirely " rode twin rails for probably 50,000 miles have an Alpha and yes it is different took 2 1/2 seasons to tame the beast and yes do I wish it was a twin rail yea probably 30% of the time . More of a concern is the cooling issues getting to the back country add a 3 lb heat exchanger in the back come.on not everyone unloads in 5 feet of fluff everyday !!

@fnatomagan

10 ай бұрын

I had the same problem with my 18 mountain cat and 21 Alpha. Had to trade the Alpha for a Riot X and never had a cooling problem again.

Boys better get ur shit together on a factory turbo 40 year cat rider and I can honestly say I have and continue to look at the other turbos and I'm not the only one cat lost a ton of customers to the other two, a 4psi boost to keep 170 hp at 8000-10000 feet is king ! Listen to the Mountain riders they k ow what they want !!

@pajamatime5750

10 ай бұрын

Then buy one of the other guys. Cat’s come along way in the past year. You guys need to relax and give them time…. A turbo will happen. If ya can’t wait Cat won’t miss you.

@wesdailey9964

10 ай бұрын

Seriously considering it .

@boser1212

10 ай бұрын

Cat definitely will miss you. You can literally count the cats on one hand you see in Bc. The lack of a twin rail and a 850 has killed them.

@pajamatime5750

10 ай бұрын

@@boser1212 Right. But, they have an 858, new chassis, new gauge and are getting back into the game…. They’re heading in the right direction. They can’t hand us everything at once, give it a year or two. They’ll have a dual rail and a turbo like the others - just be patient is all I’m saying…. Cat fans lived without much new since 2012, I’m sure they can wait another year or two knowing Cats on the right track finally….

@wesdailey9964

10 ай бұрын

Yea I am sure they will eventually come to the table with a oe turbo it just gets old being 2-3 years behind the rest , I never buy a first year sled anyways , I have twin rails I can ride and the Alpha so I am not hurting for choices it's just been along time since a factory cat was the badass of the mtn ! Just sayin