I have never listened to the Russell Moore show, but I have read one of Jonathan Haidt's books and was intrigued by the prospects of a conversation between the two. I appreciate both of these gentleman, their thoughtful interaction with each other, the conversation skills used by each, and for the beautiful modeling of public discourse. That of course does not mean that they water down their views or speak indirectly about what they really think. Yet there was a sweetness of sharing and listening, acknowledging and offering hope. Very refreshing...

Excellent discussion. Thank you for uploading the interview with the esteemed professor.

"A lie can get round the world before the truth has time to put its boots on.”

@elefanny1106

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This quote perfectly fits into America’s foundations of Free Speech and Separation of Powers. Let the mob riot and then let the House and Courts battle it out.

Excellent

Superbly informed and reasoned conversation. Kudos to both and thank you.

Social Media accentuates the breakdown in our social skills, which derive from the breakdown of our family lives that should be teaching those skills. But my opinion places equal blame on all the shock jocks of all the 50,000 watt radio stations that are holding captives, unopposed! Everyday, for the past twenty years! No voices of reasoning, to balance this barrage of all rude behavior.

What a great talk.

This was really excellent! I have felt this way since 2017.

Before "experience blockers" almost all time had the ability to be deep time. I used to work at a restoration museum, where, in a setting of restored 19th century houses and rural buildings, we demonstrated to museum visitors what life would have been like then. I made cheese in one building, pottery in another and cooked meals over an open fire in another. In the few hours per day when we were getting ready for our demonstrations, or cleaning up, and no museum visitors were there, I got to experience unplugged daily work. Without computers, cellphones, or even a radio, you pay attention to what goes on in your world and in own head, and think, and feel, and ruminate.....top quality deep time. It was well understood at the time (and before this time, for that matter) that this time was an opportunity for spiritual work. But today, taking care of everyday life - paying bills, arranging for any kind of get together of people, using the self check out to buy groceries - requires the use of experience blockers. So unless you plan for "unblocked experience", and insist on it, you could spend all day everyday in shallow time. No wonder everyone is going nuts. I make sure I spend as much time as possible away from all experience blockers as possible. People wonder why I don't carry my phone with me at all times, or insist on standing in line to wait for a cashier in the supermarket, but I'm happier for it.

excellent conversation. lots of wisdom. And many other sources of wisdom referenced. It ends with a focus on kids. We (adults) need to recognize how much our own behavior (around social media-and even person-to-person conversation) is picked up by the kids.

Honestly, the other day when I drove by a store there was a small congregation of kids. About 8 of them. OUTSIDE and NOT on their phones!?! I was surprised, then surprised at my being surprised. It actually was so good to see that I started tearing up, it was that good. I'm not against phones, and maybe I need some more convincing as to restricting kids from social media ( Jonathan Haidt is doing a good job of selling me on it ), but I'll be fair here: I have a friend who is a grown man, in his 50's, who checks his phone for stupid stuff when WE hang out! It got to be a problem where I had to finally ask him to just put the phone on silent when we were spending time together and trying to have a decent conversation. All the more that kids need to learn healthy boundaries and develop communication skills face-to-face, not to say such boundaries and skills are not learned through phones and social media and video calls. It's just that things have gone too far. This conversation is very helpful and edifying.

Wow. Great conversation. I'm ordering at least one of the books mentioned in the discussion.

I will be watching this again and dig into a few articles and books mentioned. Thanks !

Probably the best episode so far.

We thought social media would help us build understanding on the micro and meta levels, but it didn't. The sharing became competitive. Political sharing went from ideas to screeds. That meanness became acceptable makes me wonder if human nature if the Biblical teaching of original sin (or flaw) isn't on to something.

This was fantastic and much needed.

This kind of conversation works best when it is relatively devoid of actual real world issues. When you start to talk about genuine issues that impact children, like who is permitted in which bathroom or locker room, this sort of conversation tends to break down. The alternate understandings of the nature of reality are becoming so relatively devoid of overlap that nuts and bolts conversations of this sort are genuinely difficult.

It's weird because you feel smarter when use it....because you are always learning new things....which I guess is what makes it so deceptive and evil...

Actually read Barbara Walter's book twice this spring. Great insight

Of importance is his awareness of Disgust because Disgust direct corrolates to his culture.

A great conversation from different places that together made each other better.

This actually brings a lot of clarity to these topics.

Are you sure that the people who watch social media were not already stupid and social media is just making them dangerous.

When I saw growing fanatical support for trump in 2016 and I expected academics in social sciences to tell us how to talk to them. Instead I learned they were leaders in divisiveness. Things like cultural appropriation and white privilege came from academics.

He asked an atheist how pastors should communicate to their churches? LoL 😆

School is not therapy, Haidt.

Death by a thousand cuts. Throwing darts, and throwing them anonymously, has the same debilitating effect.

“Are things as crazy as they seem?” This Canadian looking in on American society says yup!

@HearGodsWord

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This Brit looking in on American society would agree with you.

I think Jonathan Haidt doesn't know about the books the British sociologist Frank Furedi has published on the way a therapeutic and tribal understanding of the self has been gradually eclipsing the older shared moral notion of persons. One such work is Furedi's (2004) book - Culture Therapy, which gives an exhaustive account of how all aspects of our culture have succumbed to the therapeutic view of persons. The revealing way he does this through doing a search on the increasing prevalence of certain keywords like 'self-esteem' reveals that the broadening of the therapeutic turn in thinking can be dated back to the 1970s onwards. Furedi's book predates Haidt's thesis that hell broke out a dozen years ago as misguided. Without the prepared ground that Furedi exhaustively digs up to explore the notion of fragility and all the associated terminology and practices that Haidt sees as erupting around 2012-14, could not have taken root. Other books by Furedi include Culture of Fear (1997), Paranoid Parenting (2002), Politics of Fear (2005), 100 Years of Identity Politics (2001), Why Borders Matter (2020), How Fear Works: Culture of Fear in the 21st C. (2020), Democracy Under Siege: Don't Let Them Lock it Down (2020)

The idea about what's good liberalism and so on assumes that there are only two relevant ideas, conservativism and liberalism. There are more and actual liberalism is dead everywhere except for the USA. What about social democracy and socialism? Are we all supposed to - again - limit our world to what is accepted in the USA? I'm excited about the new thinking current even in evangelism but the world view still is at least 150 years behind the rest of the world. Plus the idea that the world is dependent on your acceptance of something is preposterous and insulting, feel free to talk that way behind the closed doors you say you want to knock down but I'd refrain from doing so when other people are listening - it really kills the idea you might have changed or become more tolerant.

Russell, keep digging