I see there is no sense of irony on having Nick Clegg hosting a panel on backlash against the elites

@kevinhorgan2770

4 жыл бұрын

TheTranceCartel The opening statement is classic. I’ve just read your book it’s end very well. He’s earning a fucking fortune .

@randolfvenderbildt7254

3 жыл бұрын

Well said. Clegg is the classic example of a neoliberal politician who's a hypocrite and has absolutely no morals. Charlatans like him are the reason people have lost faith in politicians and why extremism is rising. He is a scumbag! P.S thanks for the tuition fees Cleggers after you promised they'd never be a thing!

@maxheadrom3088

3 жыл бұрын

I like Adam Curtis' view on elites and democracy. There's an audio only interview on youtube that he talks about it. We need elites ... but please understand the word carefully.

@TheTranceCartel

3 жыл бұрын

@@maxheadrom3088 We need elites, but they cannot be dishonourable snakes who lie to save their own skin like Clegg...In a more enlightened time, his family would have been hereditary stable boys

@maxheadrom3088

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheTranceCartel I must confess I don't really know who he is - at the time we're having our own huge problems in Brazil. I'll take your word for it - I really did not like him in this talk ... Gandhi was neve a populist and populists are never good. I'm glad you understood my point about elite!

What possible benefit is there in talking to Nick Clegg????

@krileayn

7 жыл бұрын

up where?

@cuckingfunt9353

7 жыл бұрын

It cures insomnia .

@davrasyavuz

2 ай бұрын

See

@davrasyavuz

2 ай бұрын

@@krileayns de fr G B s Cs CD CD cc CD

@davrasyavuz

2 ай бұрын

Mini

johnathon haidt is a great spokesman for the merits of free speech in society.

@prttyboy126

7 жыл бұрын

S Singh he seems to understand the basis for how both sides are rationalizing their viewpoints very well! This is only my opinion of course

@kiqyou

5 жыл бұрын

haidt will play a powerful roll going forward.

@charlesmaneage113

5 жыл бұрын

Jonathan doesn't recognize the authoritarian nature of the globalists and the left. The commies and their dictators killed people for the wrong thoughts and the wrong speech. So ,please don't talk about ,the open.,tolerant liberal left. They are all neo-commies who don't believe in Western civilization. Let's quit pretending. We spent the 20th century fighting you bastards and i guess now we start all over again. The bodies pile up whenever you appear. Tribalism was America that freed Europe and Asia. Without the agreed values of "Tribes' to marshal forces against evil, you will have evil everywhere. No shared culture or idea of loyalty and you have nothing. The tribalism of America meant they agreed to be taxed and to use that money to fight a war to free the world and were willing by shared agreement to actually die to free those people. These two are intellectuals are in love with ideas that have failed everywhere . Ideologies of any value are limited in number. The enlightenment gave us the ones that work. The rest is shit and kills people and destroys all in its path. Nation state, democracy and the individual as paramount. The best man can do or will ever do.

@zephsmith3499

4 жыл бұрын

@@charlesmaneage113 Just checking, but do you sincerely believe that you and your writing embody the principles of the enlightenment and it's ideologies?

@ascensionblade

4 жыл бұрын

@@charlesmaneage113 You are mistaken. He frequently draws a clear line between the classical liberals and the "illiberal" left. He has also compared the illiberals to a dogmatic religion that 1. refuses contrary ideas and speakers in, for example, college campuses, 2. chants repetitive slurs like monks chant, 3. worships the victim, 4. often sees society as nothing but a group power war, 5. drowns out free speech and speakers, 6. puts liberal professors in the hospital for inviting a controversial doctor to a debate to *challenge* his ideas, and much more. He is a great defender of Enlightenment values, and it's clear that he knows that the illiberals are not in favor of Enlightenment values. His heterodoxacademy.org has brought 1000+ professors together to combat the corruption of many fields of research due to a lack of diversity of thought and a kind of goal-oriented approach to research. He is one of the most important people in the world, and I don't say that flippantly. Luckily, people like you may convince liberals to take his side and help him accomplish his goal. thank you for that :) interested in your thoughts 😊 be well.

It's not immigration, but integration that people want. People should be subject to British rule of law and not allowed to run their own religious courts, be they Islamists, Jews or Christians.

@thecrow4840

7 жыл бұрын

100% with you, Its not about immigration, with out integration you get social alienation and then silent resentment.

@ChollieD

7 жыл бұрын

Well, it would be nice if immigration policy makers considered the iron law of economic supply and demand as well. As it stands, they import a bunch of cheap labor, and then are astonished to find that native low-skilled workers claim to be negatively impacted! Who could have predicted THAT? /s Stop treating this economic displacement as if it's nothing, or doesn't matter. These are your countrymen.

@AstralS7orm

7 жыл бұрын

Even more interesting, it's not just integration. Those immigrants do not want to feel like second class citizens... But authoritarians want to keep them that way. According to a few sources, this was how Roman Empire failed. They started having that us/them policy against barbarians... To integrate, they have to be allowed to get social status and economic status. But locals do not like giving up power. If they make immigrants a threat and issue they might become one - they're not now as much as rhetorics are not a real thing.

@dizhar8888

7 жыл бұрын

Josie Fox yes the Jews are the problem in Britain, the whole 270,000 of them. This is such bullshit.

@ChollieD

7 жыл бұрын

Iron Fist I think you missed the point...

I love how Clegg completely embraces his elitist bubble without any of the problems with that seemingly registering at all in reply to the very first question, then completely changes the subject in the same breath.

@Robert_McGarry_Poems

2 жыл бұрын

The denial of self fault, is pretty common in people born into wealth.

@seanleith5312

11 ай бұрын

when being nice becomes a virtue, the society is in decline. that is what it is in Britain. and America is following closely.

Brexit and Trump voters were sick of being told they are bad people for having a perfectly reasonable desire to preserve and be proud of core Western values and achievements.

@leo333333able

7 жыл бұрын

..further into vid and they do state the above ...good. 'the sacred religion of victimhood' ...true and nice line.

@leo333333able

7 жыл бұрын

..not enough talk about the problem of Islam [47mins in]

@GunterZochbauer

7 жыл бұрын

they appear quite stupid for treating Trump as a cure

@MrXaphus

7 жыл бұрын

They don't see him as a Messiah, they see him as a battering ram against people who hold freedom of speech hostage. When enough people feel backed into a corner they will do the unimaginable, the problem was the left had already won and didn't realize quickly enough how deeply they'd wounded people in their ascendancy.

@GunterZochbauer

7 жыл бұрын

MrXaphus like children. When one can not have the toy, then just break it so that no one can have it.

Woke up to hear Clegg saying that it was dangerous to dismiss "the liberal elite" as this is a valid political group. Glegg was exactly the sort of person to dismiss anyone who questioned immigration as being racist.

@thecrow4840

7 жыл бұрын

exactly. These guys are so out of tune,their still in the regressive Pre Brexit era.They are stuck in 2008... Clegg and Haidt don't realize they are the left.

@astalavisitor

7 жыл бұрын

Nick Clegg 40:48 he says Greece, despite being better off without eu it voted to remain. Quite the OPPOSITE happened. people voted NO to eu referendum by 63% and no, greece wouldnt be better off right now. what a blatant liar. almost compulsive liar. John is great , though.

@deanmayes6651

7 жыл бұрын

Thank you Mark, Clegg is so full of shit, and really thinks hes political view's represent the middle ground. Really Nick?? You are the elite that you pretend to despise so much and on the left. Which stood out to me when Haidt said he thought kids should be shown a whole range of politic's. Nick then makes hes false equivalence, and shows the bigot that he is.

@MWcrazyhorse

6 жыл бұрын

True. You cannot talk to a group that does not talk to you and only engages in blood libel. "Racist" is a very insidious term. It means heretic, evil, witch. Once the term falls the debate is over and it has fallen far too ofton.

@paulellis7533

5 жыл бұрын

"Racist" is merely the shorthand for "Shut the fuck up".

When you don't like that common people express their opinion you call them "populist". To the British aristocracy the American Revolution must have looked very populist too.

@GregoryWonderwheel

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly.

@Brian-pr1dq

4 жыл бұрын

Yep!

@AN-it8dp

4 жыл бұрын

Zinger No you don’t understand. No one does ! This is exactly like a Mafia- protects their streams and turfs - and reacts to counter the new Police Anti-racketeering laws - feminists make new studies - purely from their own thin air- the feminist island of epistemology- dismisses objectivity as an ideological obstacle to knowledge; relies entirely on qualitative distillations of anecdotal observations; and, most critically, suffers from a complete absence of rigorous hypothesis testing and quantitative measurement. So they cite their own papers against anyone who challenges them ! Get it ? See below 💁‍♀️Demanding rational thought in universities is just a “white man's way of knowing”... 💁‍♀️Peggy Macintosh - Unpacking the nap sack study paper - all men have original sin of privilege 💁‍♀️Open debate in a university environment is oppression- linked to Peggy Macintosh paper 💁‍♀️“Laboratory Conditions- objective evidence & counter narratives “ are an assault on feminists epistemology and an attack on women’s rights -linked to all papers mentioned 💁‍♀️To disagree with feminists is “Alison Baily’s Privileged Protective Epistemic Pushback-study paper”(new weapon made specifically in response to counter hoax studies) -just men using their power privilege 💁‍♀️The key motivation for resistance is to preserve one’s privilege- so NEVER resist - just accept - linked to papers mentioned 💁‍♀️Asking for dialogue with feminists or SJW is just “epistemic exploitation” study paper 💁‍♀️Kristie Dotson “concept of irreducible epistemic oppression -study paper- systems by which we produce and share knowledge are designed by men to exclude those of marginalized groups from full participation and access, and this problem is necessarily unsolvable from within the system itself. - so we can never review or check feminists studies

@pastyman001

4 жыл бұрын

Populism is the lowest common denominator from people who will say any nonsense and lies if they think it may get them support. They aim for power without responsibility and they rarely manage to sustain power because of their incompetence and contradictions. It is not everything just popular.

@matthewfazekas6337

3 жыл бұрын

We need to acknowledge that there is a difference between "populism" and "authoritarian populism." There is nothing inherently troubling with populism. Identifying individuals who show distaste towards policies and the policymakers who orchestrated such policy as "populists" shouldn't be perceived as a negative label. However, using populism as a means to legitimize unconstitutional acts is authoritarian - a development that should arise concern amongst the people.

What's happening is people are getting tired of having their wealth stolen by the state at the national and international levels.

@tulipsontheorgan

5 жыл бұрын

big time

@willyD200

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, stolen by both of these fraudulent, corrupt, self serving , corporate owned puppet political parties ! The ignorance of those who actually still believe in one or the other of these corporate owned and rigged farces is simply astounding !

@wfifer

4 жыл бұрын

willyD200 sorry whaaaaat? Define “their wealth”. Please. If, supposing you don’t mind, you could also let us know what kind of society you’d be born into if you had no idea what the world was like, i would appreciate that as well.

@bryanmachin2152

3 жыл бұрын

No, what's happening is people are having their wealth stolen by the corporate oligarchies that our governments have become. In America especially, not only does new legislation pretty much always have to protect the wealth of the super-rich, the legislation is actually WRITTEN by the super-rich. I don't know if either party will be able to change this. It now seems to be the way of the global-capitalist economy, at the expense of ACTUAL DEMOCRACY nearly everywhere!

@twelvecatsinatrenchcoat

3 жыл бұрын

Every billionaire's wealth is exploding while every nation is collapsing into massive debt and your dumb ass thinks it's state's stealing the money.

They also literally forget the pushback against Social Justice. Social Justice basically pushed too far and this was literally a pushback by many many people who basically said "thats enough I'm me and you're you, stop calling me a bigot because I don't think like you"

@nosuchthing8

7 жыл бұрын

hengineer no one cared about that.

@hexadecimal5236

7 жыл бұрын

hengineer Yes the SJW really went Insane.

@davidrapalyea7727

7 жыл бұрын

Progressives reduced themselves to a small collection of maritime States separated by 3,000 miles. Then became possitively obsessed with lavatory etiquette

@zachgrant7809

6 жыл бұрын

By "too far" you mean the perception you have of too far after gay people were given the right to marry? All the other "SJW" stuff is a very small minority that is propagandized by the right to make it seem like it was a huge issue. The push back is merely people disguising their resentment for gay people in the three letters. If they were given an outlet to regress back to total racism they probably would do that as well.

@margomargo898

5 жыл бұрын

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!

Clegg STILL dismisses the affects of immigration. Even when told directly to his face that people in one area of the country are not necessarily voting from a localised perspective he still dismisses the voters as being simpletons tricked into following a false narrative. It's absolutely stunning to see.

@sunnysmiles8211

4 жыл бұрын

Clayton Smith: he’s drunk on the mass immigration is a panacea for everything kool-aid.

@hedgefundphil

4 жыл бұрын

It is tirsesome to listen to posh upper class british moralizing.

@MohawkSquirrel

3 жыл бұрын

@i get it what are you insinuating about poor people?

@evolassunglasses4673

2 жыл бұрын

Immigration is colonis@tion.

@bryanmachin3738

Жыл бұрын

@@evolassunglasses4673 And Europeans should know--where do think the U.S., Canada, South Africa and Australia came from? COLONIZATION!

Strange that Trumps' appeal to 'white males' is called populism , while Clinton's 'glass ceiling' speeches, appealing pretty exclusively to women are never called populism. You are being ignored and treated unfairly so vote for me.

@garyray2404

5 жыл бұрын

JJ 12 is right and he gets it... the elite is stronger than ever under Trump.... Populism is say what ever they want to hear ...act like you mean it ..... and do nothing but act like you are.... blame the other side... for you not doing anything for the there cause, but you are trying for them.... Donald had / republicans had complete control ... could do anything... can't blame Dems for anything... Trump care is all his..... but you would not think that because of the lies of the Senate & the House... and it goes with out saying Trump.... Populism is all about lies.... Check the coal job for West Virginians .... I know ...I know...I know...I KNOW!! he Tried... those Dems..... Populism its what America runs on.... they are too busy to check if its real.... LOL!!!! ( Like the First ladies coat said " I DON'T CARE DO YOU?) We don't ....

@moodist1er

5 жыл бұрын

Fuck Hillary Clinton but women are oppressed. White men are not oppressed. You need a doll so you can show us where social justice hurts you. Fragile, dood.. Whatsfreemasondicktastelike?

@margueritezoe

5 жыл бұрын

It's funny how, as a biracial woman who supports Trump, I never heard him make appeals to white men. In fact, the only appeals I heard Trump make were to AMERICANS, and to common sense. Whereas all I ever heard Dems appeal to is the seemingly infinite number of fragmented identities that seek a sort of superficial validation and affirmation by blaming whites or men for all their ills. That didn't work out well for the black community. And anyone who has permitted themselves to be manipulated into believing that women are in any way oppressed in the United States of America needs to get on anti-psychotics, now.

@Alternamaton

5 жыл бұрын

Women in the West are not oppressed. I try to be as centrist as possible, but when the Left refuses to let go of nonsensical dogma it’s quite difficult.

@zephsmith3499

4 жыл бұрын

@@margueritezoe ".. believing that women are in any way oppressed in the United States" A clue to deciphering politcal speak: The extreme left (not all democratic voters) is effectively redefining "oppression" to mean any perceived systematic disadvantage. (This is part of a general cultural trend towards hyperbolic word usage, not limited to the left). It's actually true that there are still sexist stereotypes and discrimination happening, I have seen it. However, it is much reduced since my youth and there is much more opportunity for women today. Young people (the core of the extreme left) do not have that experience to compare with (nor did I when i was young and sure of myself, I'm not picking on a specific generation, just observing human social dynamics). Some segments of our population experience more of that disadvantage than others; for some the "oppression" is very light (and certainly doesn't justify that label - at least as the word has been traditionally used). Conservatives often wish to pretend that no such discrimination exists; Liberals tend to focus over much on it and discount individual agency. Both have a kernal of truth, but then they insist that that is the full truth. Sigh.

For all Haidt's flaws, he makes a good distinction between globalists and 'patriots'; while the former see the nation state as a redundant idea, the latter see it as sacred. Also, Haidt is quite good at translating justifiable objections to political correctness into the language of the kind of people who insist political correctness is some kind of myth.

@neonatalpenguin

7 жыл бұрын

"Want" is too strong a word. But sure, say what's on your mind.

@deepsoulstarfish

7 жыл бұрын

Where are these globalist politicians who say the nation state is redundant?

@synersonix

7 жыл бұрын

(to neonatalpenguin) ... Im open minded about your statement, "For all of Haidt's Flaws" ... can you kindly point those out? Thanks...

@ElectricQualia

7 жыл бұрын

if u r not a mindless zombie. u would realized this whole "debate" is rigged. if there is nothing in it about banking and the banking families that run the show, its a guarantee its just more brainwashing elitist pr stunt.

@ElectricQualia

7 жыл бұрын

Teriek Williams yup, it's a stage and they are running their Shakespearean play with us as puppets. Most of these mindless zombies love the fact they are enslaved, and simply want to "work harder" to make it in the system. Good luck with that lol

The 'populism' these two despise is more commonly known as democracy. They both pontificate in the typical way liberal metropolitan elites do by calling anyone who disagrees bigoted, racist or uneducated. Clegg has led his party to oblivion yet lacks an ounce of humility. He is determined the UK will not leave the EU because, quite simply, he knows best. Both these men are very happy to analyse and put everyone into a category. They, of course are incredibly intelligent in their mind.

This is like two people having entirely separate conversations. You can skip the Nick Clegg parts if you don't need to hear how much he thinks Brexit and Trump are bad over and over. Although if you ever needed an example of someone who's learned precisely nothing, "What's wrong with ideological bubbles? Don't bother reading outside of your political leanings," etc. then Clegg can't be topped here.

@isabelpage1964

5 жыл бұрын

Totally correct you are.

@dogwood123100

5 жыл бұрын

thank you your smart these teachers are poisoning our kid in schools

@LibertarianLatina

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the tip I fast forwarded Clegg after 20 min He just blathers on and on

@conrad1on

3 жыл бұрын

@Keith Jones How can I be wrong, as I've offered no opinion on Donald Trump here?

@conrad1on

3 жыл бұрын

@Keith Jones That's your inference, but my opinion on Trump one way or another has nothing to do with the fact that hearing someone moan about how much they dislike him contributes nothing to the conversation. I'm pretty sure that Haidt is no fan of Trump either, but he at least attempts to bring something to the conversation other than complaining about votes that didn't go the way he personally would have preferred.

Is it just me, or did Nick Clegg pretty much prove Haidt's point on every topic? Unable to see the other side, unwilling to see about what and why people feel disenfranchised and angry, and flat-out, downright, stubbornly sticking to the idea that he knows best. That said, I agree with him on the point of Europeans having a very real and visceral feeling for the union that we Brits don't, for obvious reasons.

@wt_neptune54

5 жыл бұрын

That's exactly what happened.

@salmonfreak

3 жыл бұрын

Yes and after that he calls himself a bridge builder lol

Hahaha zero violence leading up to the election? What fucking election were you watching???

@tomalesbay

6 жыл бұрын

I totally agree. Huge respect for Jonathan Haidt but he was way off his rocker on that one.

During the Brexit campaigning, I gained a lot of respect for Nick Clegg, as he seemed to speak very well, especially when compared to the rest of the Remain side. Since then, however, I have lost it all again, since whenever he talks about Brexit, he appears to talk about the 'out' side as this mass of ignorant, uneducated, small-town yokels who have been 'taken in' by a false narrative. I don't mind disagreeing with someone, but his complete lack of introspection or ability to see things from a different viewpoint have become incredibly grating. Mr Haidt, on the other hand, was fascinating to listen to.

@ChrisInToon

7 жыл бұрын

Mikophant well he was a huge liar on EU army. I did have respect for him a few years back but he in many ways is partly responsible for brexit vote coming about. the conservatives over performed at election and lib dems bombed.

@evolassunglasses4673

2 жыл бұрын

He was clueless about the scale of mass immigration from Eastern Europe. Immigration is capitalism importing an over supply of labour in, its a race to the bottom for the working class.

I don't think Sweden should be used as an example for anything in 2016

@christophergard6791

6 жыл бұрын

Kek

@BillyCosmosis

6 жыл бұрын

Apart from: How not to run a national immigration policy

@squarerootof2

6 жыл бұрын

Sweden can be used as an example of a failed country and how to get your population raped.

@unreliablenarrator6649

5 жыл бұрын

It's doing better than the USA and UK.

@Boomerrage32

5 жыл бұрын

@@unreliablenarrator6649 As much as I think Sweden made a mistake accepting so many migrants, I also think many in the sort of "skeptic" community is blowing this way out of proportions. I mean you get people like SquareRootOf2 in this very comment thread talking about Sweden being a "failed country". I'd imagine he's the same sort of person who would label remain voters in the 2016 Brexit referendum as traitors. I would suggest scaling back the rhetoric a bit at a minimum, but I know it won't work since these supposed skeptics are absolutely incorrigible. It's ironic really, skeptical of anything and everything but their own behavior, and their own nationalistic beliefs.

"populism is sort of redolent with kind of uncontrollable rages and angers and passions where as liberalism, at least the liberalism that I believe in, is about reason and rationality, evidence so on and so forth." In my life I have only experienced, whether in person or through the media, liberals who embodied uncontrollable rages and angers and passions. I have so rarely experienced a liberal who was reasoned, rational, or capable of receiving evidence and evaluating the evidence that I cannot currently think of an example. I expect that this is also the experience of many conservatives. A Major factor in my life experience is the experience of only seeing liberals in the media - Hurt people, burn things down, and break things, - Seeing liberals in the media make fun of and bully anyone who disagrees, - Seeing liberals assign bizarre motivations and actions to their perceived opponents and foment witch hunts while actually performing the very same actions they are assigning to their opponents - Assign themselves as the victim or assign themselves as protector anytime they are caught doing wrong - Lie, cover, and conceal for no reason whatsoever and foolishly so that any scrutiny reveals the object. At which they throw the victim card. - Attempt to control everything, stupidly however causing everyone, including the person who first had the difficulty, to end up worse off than if no solution had been tried. - Screech or proudly declaim "it's for the children" at every opportunity of any of the preceding except when something actually is for the children. An infuriating trait of liberals is their ability to believe at the visceral level of a fish believing in water that the opponent on any subject is morally repugnant such as assuming that the opponent must be close minded, not for openness. that they are against enlightenment, technological advance, rationality or reason, for prejudice and grievance while taking actions and making plans which embody those aspects. I believe that this, the disconnect in ability to have simple viewpoint sharing and/or information sharing discussions, is the major reason for many of our societies problems. The fanatical, the didactic, and the dismissive have taken over all of the conversations.

@joemwas5442

4 жыл бұрын

Very true and obvious. Am a conservative and seen that a lot too

Regarding the EU, I side with those who like the idea of a European Union but strongly dislike the anti-democratic EU institution that has emerged and who can't see a realistic way that it can be reformed from within. Far too often, the EU simply makes the policies it wants, behind closed doors, without consulting the people its law governs, and it doesn't provide any kind of pathway to the governed to petition meaningfully for policy change. The EU shows every indication of being imbued with a belief in the right of a self-appointed moral and intellectual elite to rule with impunity over the masses.

@charlesmaneage113

5 жыл бұрын

The Eu is an "empire", not a democracy structure. Only the nationstate can be a democracy. Even that can be too big to serve all the people, witness America's coasts and its attitude towards the middle of the country. The needs of the middle is not being met. In fact the middle was sacrificed on the altar of globalism and the ones who profited are the east and west coast. The rest has suffered and now their suffering is completely ignored because the coastal elites cannot acknwledge the detriment of their schemes. So they accuse these people who are only trying to survive of being racists and xenophobes. This only makes them hate the elites more and now they want to smash them. First their jobs were taken away, then their values were denigrated (family, country ,patriotism, spiritualism) and now their very existence is decried as being a "basket of deplorables. The contempt of the intellectual elites towards those they claim to care about was written about by Eric Hoffer in "The True Believer". He needs to be read because the best take on groups and activism and ideology was done by him and hasn't really been improved upon since. To paraphrase someone who was speaking of priests and kings at the time, "We will have no peace until the last intellectual is strangled by the entrails of the last politician." This is our problem above all others.

@AvengedKittyLP

Жыл бұрын

I support a United Europe but not a capitalist europe which funds genocides and excludes whole continents from the market

It's simple: people will care about themselves, families, and community before others on the global scale. This makes sense.

@twelvecatsinatrenchcoat

3 жыл бұрын

Except trade and globalization are not a zero sum game. Engaging with the world, increasing connections, increasing trade, growing wealth internationally, opening your community to new people... all of this has been proven to increase prosperity *on both sides* of the equation. Both societies grow. The Chinese didn't pocket eight years of American or British middle class pay raises, Jeff Bezos did. These populists have tricked you into thinking that the most powerless people in the world stole your wealth from you when the most powerful people in the world have seen their wealth explode.

@themysteriouswanderer185

7 ай бұрын

It is contradictory to be a populist and to care about your family and yourself more than others. Populism is about caring for the interests of the common people all around the globe. If you just cared about your family and yourself above others, you would be no different than the rich and the elitists.

16:00 - 19:35 is probably one of the most important points in the whole conversation. Listen closely to that part! 34:58: This!

Good talk, but I'm quite disappointed they never addressed the sovereignty issue (which was the 2nd most common reason people voted Brexit). I mean, the EU is extremely undemocratic, why is it considered an illiberal position to want to leave it or see it ended?

@michaelweber5702

Жыл бұрын

Ol -- good question

Clegg is nuts, he isn't a liberal, the state of shock in the uk is that the MPs from all the three main party's have realised they are the same, no difference! The public hate them. He mentioned the voting amount, brexit won it, 17 and a half million voted out. Clegg is hated by his own country and in his own little world.

Why were the audience so enthused by the child asking a question about Brexit and Trump lies? How the hell is he supposed to have come to the conclusion that they're lies? He's been indoctrinated into the left-wing politics of his parents, and the audience's response is applause.

@wt_neptune54

5 жыл бұрын

Because he is a kid and cute. You're basically a freak if you don't have the impulse to rush to children's side.

@Darrylizer1

5 жыл бұрын

billygoatideas Or perhaps he's just listened to Cheeto Mussolini give a speech. That guy and the truth are unknown to one another.

@davidrapalyea7727

5 жыл бұрын

Roe v Wade? What an ignorant trembling woman! First, it's none of her buisness to begin with. In addition, even if Roe were reversed it would simply return the matter back to the States where it belongs. At the time of Wade I believe most Americans already lived in pro abortion States. That foolish decision by the court gave us decade after decade of strife. And that foolish woman in the audience seems to have swallowed the blue pill without any water.

@davidrapalyea7727

5 жыл бұрын

@@wt_neptune54 re The kid He had me thinking "what an annoying little aristicrat".

@bryanmachin2152

3 жыл бұрын

Really? I thought even Trump supporters know that he basically lies everyday. It isn't really that controversial of a point to make, is it? Brexit? I can't say.

I hope they keep banging the diversity drum until it rips.

@sstruyf89

7 жыл бұрын

diversity is pretty good. different types of food and cultures.

@devilmanscott

7 жыл бұрын

Diversity within appearance is pointless, only in thought is a good thing. As we become more diverse through cultures and ethnicities, we seem to see more lines forming within nations which increases the chance of divisions.

@churblesfurbles

7 жыл бұрын

It is not, the Putnam studies show high diversity creates low social trust, low social cohesion. You create a fractured society which demands more government to protect them from the problems. And as history has showed us time and time again, in the end, when times get bad, you have genocide along tribal lines.

@1dianes

7 жыл бұрын

Indeed Putnam showed that there is distrust when diversity is high. He said that distrust disappears as people get to know each other. "Prof. PUTNAM: Look, I want to make sure that your listeners understand that I think over the long run, as we get to know one another, and as we begin to see things that we have in common with people who don't look like us, this allergy to diversity tends to diminish and to go away. "So this is not something that I think as an argument against immigration. On the contrary, actually, I think in the long run we'll all be better. But I don't think that progressives and integrationists like me do our cause any service by hiding from ourselves the fact that it's not easy." --8/2007 Tell Me More He says nothing about a fractured society and genocide, an unsubstantiated opinion. In fact, he says in the long run we will be better for immigration.

@denisdaly1708

7 жыл бұрын

edie that is incorrect. He did not show that at all. Rather, it is individualism fractures society. Sweden, the Netherlands are very diverse, no difficulties there. Ireland and so on.

I think the lies question really highlighted how biased Jonathan is. If he was being honest, he would have made it clear that there were lies from all camps, not just Brexit and Trump.

@MH-be6hr

Жыл бұрын

So true! Haidt adroitly disguises his biases, but he does have them.

Jonathon Haidt ...always interesting. Nick Clegg...always irritating.

I've watched Haidt many times, and what's always missing from his explanations is a different problem that occurs AFTER countries embrace capitalism and get rich: the rigging of the system by the super wealthy. This rigging can basically never be reigned in, because the only institution powerful enough to do it (the government) will always be accused of "socialism" if it tries. For all the talk about conservatives and rural people who hate "liberalism", there isn't sufficient explanation of how the system is rigged, and why so many voters won't accept a greater role by government to change it. And when opponents of government are not shouting "socialism", they can always be distracted by some college student somewhere complaining about "hate speech"--as if that has anything to do with the reason economies no longer benefit ordinary people--the ones who are just trying to earn a living and support their families! Whichever politicians--liberal or conservative--allow the rigging of the system should be called out, not just some "liberal elite"--whoever that is! The term was probably invented by some blogger who wanted to hide who's really in power--and funds the politicians of BOTH American political parties!

@vividscales8169

Жыл бұрын

Here's why. When you create a public treasury aka tax dollars. In a large central government. Every single person wants their shair of interest. Welfare is redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor essentially. What happens when you create special interests on both sides? Just look at America today or any large central government running welfare. The intent of welfare is great. The implementation has proven disastrous and broken. A new system must come. However the use of more central power will only lead to the very elite you want to stop to recieve more power and you lose more freedom.

@bryanmachin2152

Жыл бұрын

@@vividscales8169 Yes, but the most important issue is missing from your analysis. It's this 'rugged individualism/egalitarianism' in our culture that defeats all efforts to redistribute wealth. We've never been able to ever have a means-tested welfare program that doesn't inspire furious resentment. We can only have schemes that treat everyone the same, regardless of whether they are more or less successful. Its virtually impossible to sell most Americans on the idea that some people should actually get more than they do, due to particular dire situations. And, this fits nicely with the super-rich rigging the system, because, frankly, a lot of these angry people who work for a living and oppose the government probably would rather HAVE the super-rich rigging the system than having a real commitment by socially-minded people to a fair and responsible government--which they think is impossible anyway because of our competitive individualism. I reject the argument that bigness and 'central power' automatically fail to meet a societies' needs. they have to be designed carefully, and work together with local groups, as was done in the New Deal. Not a perfect system, not a complete solution to the Great Depression, but a system that saved the U.S. from turning to fascism, AND a system that saved capitalism itself. How to do it today, I don't know. But as long as conservative media can construct an almost impenetrable alternate reality, good luck doing anything that would weaken the lordly power of the rick and corporations. They have become our government--and six supreme court justices have declared their rule constitutional. Game over when Trump was elected and RBG died.

@danielgregg2530

10 ай бұрын

@@bryanmachin2152 'Rugged individualism/egalitarianism' is about as relevant in the post-industrial era as keeping plenty of hay and firewood on hand to tide you over the winter.

5 years ago it was still possible to lead such a discussion without mentioning climate change even once.

I grew up in Belfast in the 70s it was a very tribal place You dehumanised the people living only 100 yards away, it made it easier to hate them. I also, spent 24 years in Brit Army. Spent time in places were I was glad,I carried a gun. When that guy Jonathan Haidt said we are designed to live in small tribes, he is so right, well according to my experience. I can see this happening in London., people are living in gettos, it is worrying and it's turned into a divided city.

I love to see civil and productive discourse between people with many disparate views. This is a display of true intellectualism. These guys disagree on many things, but showed nothing but respect for each other. This is how progress is made.

"The liberal elite" They're not liberal and I'm fed up of them being called that

@bryanmachin2152

3 жыл бұрын

I don't even know who the "Liberal Elite" even are! Maybe someone just made the term up!

Haidts answer to the boys question on lies was exactly correct. The more polarized politics becomes the greater lies are believed about the other side.

1:11:14 It _is_ Islam. The left's continued refusal to remove its collective head from the sand on this issue is why the right will continue to grow stronger and stronger.

Jonathan Haidt is off the charts smart, honest and sincere. Clegg lost the plot halfway through.

what the hell is so pungent about the phrase "take back control?"

@bomberfox5232

7 жыл бұрын

I was speaking more in general usage of the phrase. I dont see anything inherently pungent in that statement.

@thesurvivorssanctuary6561

7 жыл бұрын

+Keith Jones Except now the populace is saying it. What they don't realize is the statement should simply be, "seize control". The people have never held the reigns of power.

@thesurvivorssanctuary6561

7 жыл бұрын

Keith Jones My point, my friend, is that the perception of politics is changing in the populace, and that this is a hidden tsunami of change. The tide has gone out, and now people can feel the change in the air. Trump, and all those that take advantage of this spirit will find that they can only spear head it while following it's invisible precepts. So, like all major civil rights movements, the heads of state will have to acquiesce to the will of the people, but of course they will try to divert it as much as possible. My use of the term populism is more of a reference to the will of the people, and to those purported to be the leaders of these movements. Ultimately I do not believe or think that the people will seize control, but rather, they will gain more control over how their lives are governed.

@dimitribazos1532

7 жыл бұрын

It sort of sounds to me like he meant "poignant"; pungent may have been a Freudian slip.

@robertschrader

7 жыл бұрын

Because the subtext, in America, is "take back control (for the whites, from the black guy)."

I got 7 minutes into this and realised that neither of these speakers have any idea what ordinary people think about.

Haidt's analysis is top notch. I am fundamentally a Globalist, in the sense that that's where we're going and where I think we should go; but I think Globalism has been mishandled and has been imposed in a top-down manner, so I support Nationalism in the interim, and I think the worldwide populist backlash is salutary, and there isn't any need for it to turn ugly so long as the political process does in fact clean up its act and start becoming more responsive. There's still some work for the nation state to do before it fades away in importance. It's to do with the "distance" between government and governed. There's a sort of human-sized level of that distance that has to be maintained, between the people who make laws and the people who have to live under those laws. When you get too much of that distance, as with overweening federalism in the States, or the Habermasian hyper-bureaucracy of the EU, that's when people get the feeling their lives are being affected by people who do neither know or care about the concrete results. The solution is to introduce more measurement of failure into government. *It must be possible to check whether political measures have worked as intended, and to repeal them if they haven't.* And the populace needs to get canny to the fact that this ought to be a desideratum of government, and something the people they elect should be trying to implement. The system under which we live has to be comprehensible, and comprised of rational laws that make sense to most individuals of even moderate intelligence, when there's a proliferation of regulations and restrictions, on action, on speech, etc., then people feel psychologically _hemmed in,_ like they can't function normally, with the freedom that's ingrained into us as a deep desire from the long period of evolution in our ancestral environment. This is always our saving grace: that we are freedom-loving creatures, we love to roam, or at least to be free to do so if we want to (even if we don't happen to want to). There was a period there, when we co-evolved with herd and crop monocultures, when we developed somewhat rigid heirarchical social structures, in a case of analogous evolution with other food-store-protecting species like ants and bees. Our memetic machinery, as it were, enabled us to mimic the life-patterns of such creatures, because that happens to be the best game-theoretic solution to how to protect food stores. So for a while our plasticity almost made us lose touch with our innate love of the open plains, of freedom, we almost became like social insects. But we avoided the trap, and _progress,_ of the kind we're probably all mostly after, is now possible. But still, there are some lingering remnants of the old ways of thinking hanging about. There's no need to deliberately (i.e. by means of legislation) try to get rid of them, they'll fade away of their own accord. Just let them say their piece and listen.

This discussion seems to be about how Liberals and Populists "should" act, rather than discussing why people are acting the way they act. There's no commentary on the corporate "take over" of American politics or the reasons why of the large influx of immigrants. This conversation strikes me as a quintessential discourse between academic elites who are totally disconnected from the "little people beneath them".

@oboogie2

7 жыл бұрын

EXACTLY!

@AstralS7orm

7 жыл бұрын

Go back to your bubble? Are you proving the thesis pointed out in this talk just to prove a point or did you really mean it? Without discourse everything falls apart. Trump has had no effect on economics just yet. It will take time - a repeat of what Dubya did is quite likely - he didn't work alone but as GOP bloc. A whole score of US capitalists voted Trump (after all he did promise tax cuts), much like a bunch voted Clinton. it's about as divided there. *Media* voted Clinton.

@televisionsux

7 жыл бұрын

..anybody who quotes PEGGY (pearl clutching) NOONAN of all people, as some kind of Bellweather for what the American Election looked like to her is a bona fide elitist know-it-all pundit who should be ignored because he has NO IDEA what "the plain janes and plain joes" Living in the flyover places in Amerikka are thinking or feeling. The Bookish Pundits are severely out of touch IMHO.

@simon7342

7 жыл бұрын

Dissident Thought Trump made Paulson his economic adviser after he donated $250,000 to his campaign in June. Paulson is a vulture fund speculator and bought a lot of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac shares, for example, when they had to be bailed out. Trump is personally invested up to $15 million in Paulson's fund. If Trump releases the lenders from government control (one of his other picks, former Goldman Sachs man Steve Mnuchin supports this very strongly as do others) he and Paulson and all the other speculator billionaires Trump has hired will make a fortune. Taxpayers will lose. Trump is calling for a rapprochement with Russia. Coincidentally that's exactly what oil billionaire Rex Tillerson and ExxonMobil want because sanctions have interfered with their Russian-Arctic venture. Trump wants Russian oil to flow again and he's even cutting China off to make sure that China buys from Russia too. Tillerson, Trump and Putin will make billions. US producers will lose money and so will taxpayers. It's just a kleptocracy. It will be impossible to deny that in a very short time. Trump has tricked the very angry into voting for him, that's all.

@deprecatedflayer

7 жыл бұрын

+Alejandro Duarte Yeah, they're talking about the psychology of people at a macro level to disseminate how this happened and are essentially leaving politics aside. Can't blame the only smart guy in this discussion for talking about what he knows (through his studies and teaching). Maybe the other guy should have brought some politics into this, but he's clearly a blind fool, so we're only getting good insight into the psychology of it all.

I love how that kid at the end thinks Trump invented lying. Great job indoctrinating, teachers.

@SevenFootPelican

3 жыл бұрын

How is it indoctrinating to call out the most pathological liar of a president to ever hold the office? Get out of here. Indoctrination my ass.

The "sacred victim" This was a moment in time , the coinage of a profound phrase. I can envision a woman cringing in fear. The fear of her children, her neighbor, the coming to peace with chaos ,with death, the death of truth.

I’m just so glad that Haidt’s moment has passed almost as quickly as it came. It’s amazing how much attention was given to his facile brand of political commentary.

You say above that things like the Brexit vote have happened even though they are "likely to hurt people's interests". I don't think you realize the depth of desperation that people have gotten into these last few years, to the point where their interests can't be hurt much further. The more desperate people's situations become, the more desperate the kinds of actions they'll take to try to do something about it. The increasingly supra-national political, govt, media, judicial and big business establishment has become completely detached from people on the street down the blower half of the chain. They continue to live in their own cosy, rosy-tinted reality, seemingly unaffected or unconcerned by the terrible situations that they've left the rest of us in. And I'm just talking about the UK in this regard. Things are bad enough here, but then you look at the situation in southern Europe, with some parts of Athens for example running an unemployment rate of around 80%, you realize just how frighteningly bad things have gotten for sizeable swathes of people. The Brexit and Trump votes are a big kick in the teeth to the arrogant, self-serving snobs that purport to rule us yet actually despise us, shoving their ideology down our throats and ignoring the wishes of the people when it doesn't suit them. Those people had better start listening and addressing people's concerns, and until there is a noticeable, longer-term change for the better in people's job and income situations for starters, expect lots more "bloody noses".

19:37 Something that came to mind while listening til this point. Capitalism begets wealth. Wealth begets equal rights. Wealth and equal rights beget lesure. This prosperity begets cultural shift away from capitalism, away from nationalism, away from religion, away from the culture. And then, the departure from those things that begat the prosperity (God and country, hearth and home) destroys the prosperity. Devastated prosperity leads eventually back to the beginning. It's all a circle. Ecclsesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Ecclesiastes 3:15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

@robertpatter5509

2 жыл бұрын

Strong men create safety. Safety makes weak men. Weak men can't defend. Country gets conquered by new tribe. A cycle

Two things about what Nick Clegg said: First. Yes, the immigration debate in the UK may have been bout immigration from the eu, but Angela Merkel had just unilaterally opened the doors to Europe. Immediately the eu started demanding that every other country take "its fair share". There was no debate. Those countries' political elites didn't even get a chance to debate the issue. It was a case of Brussels saying "You will." Britain was shielded from that to some extent by not being part of the Schengen arrangement, but Brits knew that eventually many of those refugees would move to The Jungle in Calais and the rest would get European papers that meant they could come to Britain legally. They don't want to live in Lithuania or Bulgaria, they want to come to London. Second. Sure, people who hold beleaguered philosophies, like today's liberals shouldn't be completely spurned and cast out, I agree fully. But Nick and his chums are finally feeling what those of us who aren't globalist elitists have been feeling for decades. We've been scorned, unjustly been called racists and scum, and basically been told our viewpoint was invalid for years. I'm glad the liberal-left ate finally learning what it feels like.

Haidt had a stereotypical example of his theories by his side all the time! He must have had a lot of fun!

I would love to see Nick Clegg and Haidt come back together after several years and take another look at how they thought things would play out. Seems like a good few of Trumps claims, the ones Clegg saw as sort of lies, have turned out to be kept or at least pushed for by his administration, for example.

@MH-be6hr

Жыл бұрын

Trump often floated policy ideas with no real intention of seeing them through to completion and passage by Congress. The tactic avoided most of the consequences of the new policy while harvesting the political benefits of supposedly having passed the legislation. Pretty slick!

The rise in median income in the US is no mystery. We devalued our own currency. So everything pays a little more but a pound of bacon costs 5 bucks.

These videos should be accompanied with a date. I was ten minutes into this one before I realized it was from 2016, not 2024.

At 19 min. Mind tickled. I saw my self in an argument

If liberals would respect us would respect them. This liberal has insulted us about 11 times in this discussion.

@jesperburns

7 жыл бұрын

Who is "us"?

@Macheako

7 жыл бұрын

Beppe Take a wild fuckin guess

@Macheako

7 жыл бұрын

***** The funny part is, they honestly think we can't see their bull sh-t...they're THAT prideful and arrogant... That gives me hope lol it's always the prideful fool that falls the hardest ;)

@jesperburns

7 жыл бұрын

See this is what annoys me about the die-hard Trump supporters Criticizing Trump = Hillary supporter. See how that doesn't make any sense? I'm perfectly capable of recognizing Trump was the better choice over Clinton, but I'm also fully aware that he's an orange blowhard without a consistent position on anything. These two opinions are not mutually exclusive. What's more, there's barely anything "liberal" about the US Democrats, if you wanna be ideologically opposed to anything, be opposed to leftism. Most liberal parties world wide are both right wing *and* conservative. Now, most liberals, be they right wing or nay, should be opposed to Trump, because he's authoritarian and dumb as fuck. And for the record, Hillary is authoritarian as well.

@Macheako

7 жыл бұрын

Beppe So who'd ya vote for?

In terms of violence there was esencially none* There was violence that was a lie. *he scratches nose right after*

@shurikozerov3164

7 жыл бұрын

In a country of 360million people, and the level of outrage that followed, the amount of violence that took place right afterwards is considerably small in the context of much of the world. That doesn't make it acceptable, but there have been far less controversial elections that have generated far more violence per capita elsewhere.

Drinking game: take a swig every time Clegg says "visceral". Don't drive.

Thank you Nick! Populism, like nationalism and patriotism (perhaps even "globalism") have gained unfairly negative connotations, thanks to their being hijacked by destructive forces and disingenuous personalities. All these "isms" are necessary counterbalances to one another, and each movement has positive aspects and the possibility of constructive contribution to national and international discourse and governance. Talks like this remind me that all is not lost! Good, moral, rational folks have every incentive to mobilize across political and ethnic divides to stabilize global society against the nihilistic and atavistic forces that have corrupted populism, nationalism, patriotism, and globalism. Education is the key, and dialogue is the doorway to peace and prosperity. Cooperation is our species' only hope. Mr. Clegg is right. Patriotism is an essential ingredient for strong, healthy societies. It doesn't have to be opposed to multilateralism either. In fact, concern for the well-being of one's country requires the exploration of multilateral solutions to the world's pressing economic, political, and environmental problems.

Thomas Jefferson was his name he was white and existed in a period of time when things were more racist. Does any of what I said increase the value of what we learned from Jefferson. The answer is no. Slavery was a horrific and brutal lesson that humanity has mostly over came. Does knowing who did what to who make the lessons we learned any more value. No. Ideas are colorless and they should stay that way. to accomplish this we should learn valuable information free from Identity other wise it can be under minded. Slavery is a rough topic that we should teach our children without focusing on who were villians and who were victims. These non essential facts should be transparent for intelligent adults attending college. this way people Identities are not infected or wounded at young ages. I think that speaking about victims and perpatrators to children is child abuse and carries negative long term feelings that can explode later in life. What we need to do as a country is to free people's Identities from groups.

Liberal arrogance in the misdts of passion with hubris, thy name is Clegg.

Clegg is such a hopeless lightweight it’s amazing he made it to deputy PM. Quite scary actually.

I don't recall Nigel Farage saying he would fight for another referendum when he virtually conceded on June 23rd. And I don't get the impression that Remain is being minimalised. Not one bit.

I think I can explain everything better in a single sentence: *Neoliberal corporate greed* has screwed over the populace, and a desperate populace turned to whatever political power seemed to even slightly represent them.

@charliebright8027

6 жыл бұрын

yes sir, and they are trying to expand their base to match the right wings warmongering greed monsters which will leave us with Bernie, a new peoples party ( i hope) and tons of milleniels that vote as a block and get their butt out there and vote. that's my last American dream. ill be 62 in 2 years and collect my 1200 a month and listen to you guys keep us in the REAL news!

@DWHalse

5 жыл бұрын

Charlie...Well after almost two years Trump has accomplished much if your into bit of lower taxes, fewer illegal folks crossing over the border to enter into the welfare system, economy growing at 4+%, unemployment at record lows for every sector of the population (races & gender), military investment up, 3 million jos added, over 300,000 manufacturing jobs added, over 300,000 construction jobs added, unemployment dropped to 3.8%, coal industry back on track, consumer confidence highest in 17 years, roll back of bad regulations, stupid Dodd-Frank regulations rolled back, his tariff threat has brought negotiators from all over the world to the table, withdrew from Trans-Pacific Partnership, Korea...who knows, world may not like Trump but he is treated with respect (go watch videos of Trump vs Obama when visiting Saudi Arabia, China, Israel), stupid Iran deal is gone, Embassy moved to Jerusalem, hostages released without $$, ISIS is almost gone, Supreme Court!!, Veterans being taken care of, individual mandate gone. He may make the Left mad but he makes real Americans proud of their country again in spite of his personality issues.

@thelaw3536

5 жыл бұрын

@@DWHalse he also imposed tariffs. Universally known as bad by economists. Gotta critique him as well. Could stop disrespecting people so much. Turns people off.

@DWHalse

5 жыл бұрын

@@thelaw3536 Appreciate your thoughts and in theory (Sowell/Friedman) would agree, however if used as a negotiating tactic, which seems to be what's happening, would you concede that it is working. Mexico and Canadian trade agreements, EU and China at the table? Would love your thoughts as I am open to ideas

@thelaw3536

5 жыл бұрын

@@DWHalse I am going to go off to a side issue and bring it back to the question. Policies should not be based on merely working; it should be based on what is most likely to work. If I want to shoot a basketball into the hoop for the game winning shot and I decide to turn around and face the opposite direction of the hoop, and throw the ball behind and above me towards the hoop. The ball lands in the hoop and we win. Does the ball landing in the hoop make the decision to turn around, and blindly throw the ball above and behind me towards the hoop a good decision? If the goal is trying to win than no, it isn't. Had I shot it as a normal player would I would have a much greater chance of winning and even if I miss it will be more based on my skill, which can be improved rather than luck. It is also better because if I miss and there is enough time for a teammate to get a rebound and try scoring, than I doubled my opportunities to win. Trump accomplished the goal, but it could be easily ended in a trade war and the result isn't to reduce tariffs significantly so the citizens didn't benefit from increase competition supplying their goods. So why take the risk when you could just lower your tariffs, and try to talk to the EU and other places to do the same? Worst case scenario your economy gets a massive boost and your country becomes vary attractive to foreign investment while lowering the price for poor and middle class people. Best case scenario your allies up in you and you all benefit from increases productivity. As it is known with China, we are heading, if not already in, a trade war and the benefits having been substantial when it did work.

This would have been better without Nick Clegg.

What an intellectual and civil conversation! Thank you. I really like the way Haidt argues.

The way Nick talks is such a pain in the ass to try to listen to. He's whispering and mumbling for 3 seconds and then shouting for 3 seconds. It's like he's talking through a phaser. He never finishes a coherent thought. He just interrupts himself to begin the next thought. Haidt is such a pleasure to listen to by comparison.

Its interesting to watch the very careful dancing around the elephant in the room, the Islamic systemic lack of assimilation and fundamental clash with Western values. Immigration is not the main issue, immigration of people from systemically opposing cultures with our culture is the real issue.

Third question, "when we can't agree on facts how can we have productive discourse" (paraphrased). Thank you! That needed mention

Two guys who agrees on most issues holding a debate, how interesting :P

Economics is not a science and there are no economic facts. Economics is politics.

Clegg talks a lot and most of it is crap and what is he saying and stands for

is this an interview or a debate?

@quanta407

7 жыл бұрын

discussion

@mariuszj3826

7 жыл бұрын

something that is next to impossible on the internet... and it's civil...

These stupid victims need to leave about other people. When I was a young child I was also a complete moron and thought I had more victimized and had more problems and negative events happening to me. I'd lost several close family members and one of my best friends, I had suicidal depression, my dog(my best friend), and various other things. One day my highschool had a day where we met in the gym in various groups. I don't remember the exact details, but we had conversations where we eventually opened up and learned about each others' struggles in life. This changed me. I learned about how people I knew whom I thought lived perfect lives actually had many struggles as well. I learned how you cannot judge someone's struggles by their outward appearance. That moment changed me in the same way a racist person can learn to lose their racism. I think such a moment is important for young people and that the violent insane SJWs would be fixed if only they could be given such a moment.

What changed things for me wasnt 08 it was 2012 olympic ceremony. Then i realised our elites hated us

Clegg says he likes facts but relies on innuendo and sneering throughout. Some humility about understanding of legitimate left wing and environmental concerns about the eu would be helpful. Also most remainers are worried about free movement so stop all the virtue signalling.

One question I would have for Johnathan Haidt is what exactly do minorities have to gain from embracing American Nationalism? Going off his idea of "national ideology as quasi-religion," you could say that the mythologized "golden age" of America is around 1870-1960. That time, as a whole saw rapid growth, territorial expansion and a rise of prosperity overall. But when you look at the major groups which SJWs tend to focus on in their evangelizing it becomes clear pretty quickly that things were not nearly as great for them. Let's go over the broad strokes African Americans: Started off having growing political and social rights, but were quickly stamped out by a confederate insurgency (Original KKK), which the federal government half-heartedly attempted to quell before taking their hands of the wheel of reconstruction entirely. Were promised equality despite segregation, which quickly fell by the wayside, were constantly subject to extrajudicial violence (lynching, race riots, ect.) and state-sanctioned violence and undermining of civil rights (Jim Crow laws, Tulsa city bombings, drug war), economic exploitation (sharecropping, prison slavery loophole) and unethical and nonconsentual scientific experimentation (Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment). Women: Basically had no civil rights whatsoever for the first half of the entire Golden Age, their lack of political or economic leverage made them extremely easy to exploit in manufacturing and the sex industry, even so much as discussing any sort of sexual health was considered obscene (during a time when one of the leading causes of death for women was childbirth). After gaining some semblance of civil rights via the right to vote, they still lacked any sort of economic rights (couldn't own property, couldn't apply for loans), served as a sort of disposable labor pool during the world wars and remained economically dependent on either their parents or their husband. Latinos: For Mexico in particular, one should first be reminded that basically the entirety of the Southwest (California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado, Oklahoma, Kansas) was more or less occupied territory by the beginning of the Golden Age, and had been officially claimed by New Spain and then Mexico since 1769. From there, the Mexican inhabitants of that area have been alternately treated as a disposable, black market labor pool and alien invaders. For the rest of Latin America, Golden Age America basically turned them into formal (Puerto Rico) or informal (Cuba, Guatemala, Honduras, Panama) plantation colonies by overthrowing their governments on behalf of the food production industry. Sexual "Deviants": This includes, but is not limited to LGBTQ+ folk, because this also includes pornography, masturbation, interracial marriage and sexual health issues. Golden Age America was so entirely terrified by sexual deviancy that they actually established a law (still on the books by the way) which permitted an appointed official to go through peoples private letters and packages, including confidential medical information, so that "obscene" material (which, again included legitimate urological and gynecological medical advice) wasn't transmitted through the mail. The creator and enforcer of this law, Anthony Comstalk, regularly used entrapment to enforce this material. Another Golden Age sexual deviancy crusader, Harvey Kellogg, advocated for unanesthetized circumcision and female genital mutilation (achieved by pouring acid onto the girls' clitoris) to be performed in middle childhood, explicitly so that they would associate masturbation with a painful medical operation. Meanwhile, LGBTQ+ folks were actively profiled by the government, outed and subject to extrajudicial punishment on a regular basis and were officially conflated with sexual predators such as rapists and pedophiles, solely on the basis of their private and consentual business. Finally the only time sexual health was ever mentioned as a medical, rather than a moral concern in any significant way during the Golden Age was to prevent the spread of venereal disease in the armed forces during the two world wars, and even that was a begrudging concession to preserve fighting strength. Indigenous Populations: It'd take far too long to go over every time over the course of the golden age which the Indigenous populations were subjected to bad-faith diplomacy, forced reeducation in the form of "assimilation," or extermination, but rest assured that all of these were not only ubiquitous, but actively encouraged and celebrated by both the government and the general population during the Golden Age. I don't mention any of these in an attempt to shame anyone, but merely to reiterate commonly accepted recent historical facts. If these are the sort of things the groups which SJWs are a part of and advocate for had to deal with during the mythological period of American Nationalist Spirituality, then I would like to know why should they embrace it? What do they have to gain from this identity? I actually think that Haidt is largely correct in his assessment of spiritual identity being imperative to the overall stability of society, but the fact of the matter is that American Nationalism as it stands today seems like it has nothing but empty, bad faith promises for the majority of people who already live in America. Does that mean we should throw out the American social mythology entirely? No, obviously not. But on the other hand, dismissing anyone who doesn't take the social mythology as it is hook, line and sinker, particularly those for whom historical and personal experience have taught that doing so will result only in exploitation and persecution, as a panglossian "Globalist" basically renders you as much of a naive idealist as the globalists who you criticize

@wt_neptune54

5 жыл бұрын

The smart thing to do would be to wean people off these identities and offer them new ones to live up to. Whatever the name of the demographic, it is basically an in card to participate in whatever the club is. For example, for white women SJWs, they evade their own white guilt by having victim points via the identity of being female. It is just a matter of redefining the groups and making new dividing lines for us and them. You can get the minorities on the nationalism train by making the national identity the most compelling one.

@claude-alinecarriere3337

Жыл бұрын

I read Johnathan Haidt's The Righteous Mind. I found his arguments intellectually lazy.

Great drinking game right here. Take a drink every time Mr. Clegg says "visceral".

Why do so many intelligent people walk sooo far out of their way to not address the issue of corruption in these arguments

Clegg: " mmm, mmm mmm (i'm not listening; I know everything already) mmm...

How come no one brings up that Obama was a populist too? People act like it's something very recent.

@jaradrichardsC137

5 жыл бұрын

Populism is hundreds of years old

@jaradrichardsC137

5 жыл бұрын

Maybe thousands but im more versed in American history

@katrinak902

5 жыл бұрын

Obama wasn't a populist. He campaigned with populist rhetoric but he governed as a Republican.

What a great talk! It's difficult to characterize this as a debate when these two are quite together in thinking on the topics discussed. It's too bad the conversation didn't take place 2-3 years later and include a deeper discussion on the good and bad of social media, beyond politics.

The general public have more integrity and common sense than many politicians. Studies have shown that narcissism is more prevalent amongst politicians and senior business people. It is essential that we have true democracy where people vote for the kind of country they want to live in. To be sure the populace of most European countries would not have voted for mass immigration and our countries would not now be facing terrorism, gang crime etc.

Speaking from the US point of view, almost half of the country did not vote. If "neither" was a candidate, it would have almost unanimously won. Both Trump and Clinton are very flawed for their own reasons. Democrats had a chance to get with the populism movement with Sanders, but they were so adamant on Clinton which was their ultimate downfall.

Fascinating to watch these two next to each other and see just how shallow and out of touch a politician can be seated next to an open minded scientist.

The fact that these guys still don't get it illustrates the problem in a clear manner, more than their excuses, labelling and blaming.

Can we somehow get the transcript of these debates?

My general view on patriotism is: it's great to enjoy your culture and country, but you should never consider your nation superior or somehow better (even if you might be right)

Clegg is a good speaker, a classic liberal and a politician through and through. Which means he has a juvenile rendering of reality and therefore, never really penetrates to the very dark drivers of geopolitical and socio-cultural dynamics. In other words, he is a painfully naive liberal ideologue. A very superficial conversation, though I suspect Hiadt would have understood he wouldn't be able to take it deeper.

"The American government is not gonna work again in our lifetimes at the federal level." I will die on that hill.

I'm ethnonationalist, lol.

Jonathan Haidt’s analysis and understanding is superb and valuable. As a remainer it pains me to say, Nick Clegg not so much. His elitist bias is palpable and somewhat naive. He seems to have a “visceral” distaste for Brexiteers, or plebeians as he might call them, and his lack of empathy for their position is disappointing and sad. Haidt’s quotation of John Stuart Mill is very applicable to Nick Clegg. It seems that Clegg has learned little from his defeats and losses.

Watching this in April 2019 and wondering what Nick Clegg thinks now. Lol

Haidt describes many of the problems with people's thought processes and assumptions. Clegg responds showing that he's actually one of the people displaying the types of problematic thought processes and assumptions Haidt is describing, but he has absolutely no self awareness of that fact. Surprised Haidt didn't call him out on that. It happened more than once.

Oh, God, what utter complacency and self-regard! Just the thing that drives people crazy! Nobody there to confront Remoaner Clegg with a perspective counter to his! As if that MUST be true, and we must try to "understand" and "analyze" the rise of "populism", and what is going on with those people? Revolting.

@swordarmstudios6052

7 жыл бұрын

Your angry because very smart people are discussing where populism comes from? It's a psycologist and a former prime minister. Both of their jobs involve anaylzing what people think. I'm libertarian leaning myself, but I really liked this talk. People are talking about why things are. It's not arrogant to talk about why shit happens dude. If anything, you saw really good admissions from intellectuals about why the political left has problems.

No violence look at New Mexico at trump rallies

@bicboi1930

7 жыл бұрын

ryan gonzalez project Veritas you idiot. the liberals illegally incited violence by paying people

@TheM2heavy

7 жыл бұрын

Bic Boi I don't think you follow my point he said there was no violence I was pointing out that New Mexico had lots of violence. I am a conservative and I think you might be too.

@TheM2heavy

7 жыл бұрын

In New Mexico they assaulted that poor woman and the police did nothing.

@bicboi1930

7 жыл бұрын

ryan gonzalez where did you see that??

@nachochitiu6953

7 жыл бұрын

Who attacked? DNC payed agitators?

Interesting, revelatory comment by Mr. Clegg at 1:04:55, "For an increasing number of people, politics is self expression."

Populism perhaps 'appears' when a system cannot operate efficiently enough to warrant a content society.

1:03:18 Yeah, I have a surprise for you! You're not the first person to become conservative when they're getting old.

34:00 ish... Educated people move around... We're talking about Populism, i.e. people that can't think for themselves... "Forgive them for they know not what they are doing"... Have you heard the phrase before?

Some of the things Nick Clegg says are really quite worrying. The statement the "progressive centre" is loaded with all kinds of ideals and goals. He doesn't talk about the centre which is on a spectrum but the progressive centre; progressivism is an ideology with it's own spectrum, which he consider himself in the centre. Does Clegg realise there is a spectrum outside progressivism. Considering his belief that "there is nothing wrong with bubbles" suggests he is living inside a progressive bubble.The fact he won't even have the daily mail inside his house actually show him to be an extremist; not reading a newspaper because it doesn't conform to your ideological bubble is a very extreme stance to take.

Haidt's opening statement was word salad and red herrings. You can't re-define your way out of oligarchy and then wonder why people eventually get pissed off.

l like both these guys. very smart.

@Kisamaism

7 жыл бұрын

What was the worth of your statement Mac? What anonymous hatred.

@MacMac-il6un

7 жыл бұрын

Kisama yep. I'm pure evil ! boo hoo 👿

@MacMac-il6un

7 жыл бұрын

Kisama Anyone who can say that they like Nick Clegg is a twat ! it's just a fact x.

@hamiltonharper

7 жыл бұрын

One is monumentally smarter than the other. Listen to Haidt's lectures; they are absolutely impenetrable to debate. Clegg is a pragmatist and is well versed in keeping the political machinery running, but those like him are not the high oracles to turn to for insight. An odd pairing on the stage, for sure, but they complement one another... For every engineer, we need a machinist.

@curiousgemini

6 жыл бұрын

We need more debates like this. Things are getting out of hand, on both sides of the political spectrum.