I think one of the main things that lead to its downfall was the fact the it became the go to for Tumbler/Instagram “witches” that just used it for the aesthetic.

@rubioalvin

Ай бұрын

💯. I noticed this as well

Started my journey in Wicca but left it for Hellenism/Hellenic Polytheism almost 15 years ago. I appreciate Wicca for the simple reason it showed me what I wasn't looking for in my religious expression. Tward the end of my time with Wicca, I started hearing phrases like "the god or goddess within" or "we are manifestations of the divine". Made me feel like I was being told to worship or make myself out to be a god. Thats when I made a run for the exit. All the events I went to was never about honoring gods or goddesses it was always about honoring ourselves. Which is all well and good, but not for me. I know my worth, I dont need constant reminders of it. I need religion to fill my spirit not my ego.

I am a 38 year old ex-Muslim atheist who started off in Wicca when I first left the faith. Man, you were right about the internet in the 90s. It was some wild times and you described it PERFECTLY including book stores.

There's definitely a difference between Eclectic Wicca and Initiatory Wicca, and unfortunately unless you're an initiate of one of the BTW trads you're kind of in the dark. Most of what I'm hearing in this video, especially when it was relating to Initiatory Wicca, is pretty off base. No blame or shame there since what's really taught isn't readily available to the public, nor should it be. We (initiates) are also very aware of the history and know it's not an ancient religion or passed down through the generations. Furthermore, the trads are continuing to grow so the idea of it being a dying movement isn't accurate, at least speaking from the perspective of someone in the BTW community. Lastly, the thought of our craft being a simple craft definitely shows just how little people outside of our community actually know - Alexandrian craft in particular can get very complicated in regards to ritual structure and esoteric concepts. Regardless of everything I've said, thanks for taking the time to speak about Wicca. Your content is always worth watching/listening to and I hope you continue to dive deeper into esoteric studies and topics. Cheers!

Hey I enjoyed your video! Actually I enjoy all your videos! A couple of finer points - you can't really assess Gardnerian wicca unless you've been initiated. There's almost no authors out there who are credible. The scant few who are intentionally don't give away the sauce. Philip Heselton comes to mind as a superior author who has done his homework - but intentionally pulls punches on topics (read Witchfather). Michael Harrison is someone who was not initiated, but makes really interesting connections in The Roots of Witchcraft. It is what it is. The important parts to note are that Gardnerian Wicca has a huge overlap with Baltic and Basque ritual practices which lends to its authenticity. The biggest observation there is that they are fertility cults (not sex cults), which is the core of Gardnerian craft also. The other smoking gun you can find is Doreen Valiente threatens Gardner with their elders, which makes no sense if there are no elders in which to appeal to. She surely means the mother coven they came from. Unfortunately her and Gardner didn't see eye to eye and so she leaves the craft after a scant five years and it's a bitter split. Gardnerian craft in particular has split recently into Traditional Gardnerian craft and neo-Gardnerian craft. The Traditional side of the fence wants to keep the rituals as they are, and the neo-Gardnerian side of the fence doesn't believe in the history they were handed and wants the modify the rituals. This is very similar to the OTO fight over the Gnostic Mass where folks argued that sex and gender didn't matter. However unlike the OTO which has a central body, Gardnerian Wicca doesn't, which has led to the falling out. I figure that if folks want to affirm that their physical selves don't matter, it's a fine mantra for them. The ritual practices all hang their hats on the physical plane so denying its effects is to deny the core of witchcraft which is all toad skins and bones. It makes precious little sense to be in a fertility cult and ignore fertility. :) Because of that, the neo-Gardnerian side of the fence really has become a social club which we've seen plenty of times before in the Golden Dawn and Freemasonry, etc. It's fueled an exodus, as you noted, into the Traditional Gardnerian covens or into other witchcraft practices which aren't social clubs. Folks who want to go on their own should be absolutely commended, they're the best kind of witches because they're actually interested in success rather than if they're being served a sweet red or a dry white wine. We saw that with the development of the Minoan tradition which de-emphasizes the fertility cult to provide ministry to men in same sex relationships, or the Dianic cult which is the same for women. Gardner did not have time to receive even the OTO rituals from Crowley. This actually becomes a pain point for him late in life where he only knew Crowley for a year, and then only really four times. He had to write his own charter and get Crowley to sign it, then later demands all Crowleys notes and papers relevant to standing up the degrees. He wouldn't need this if he had been trading notes with Crowley standing up the witch cult. However the real problem is that Gardner was initiated into the witch cult well before Crowley got talking to him about the OTO. While Gardner is a prolific reader (and self-taught) Crowley comes into his life far after these events. If you're interested in Traditional Gardnerian Wicca, check out www.tradgardwica.com/ which has some reading and a way to contact traditional gardnerian covens.

I am so glad you pointed out Paul Huson's work. GREAT job! Long time watcher and listener, but never comment. This needed to be said. Thank you!

@scarling9367

2 ай бұрын

Same. I've never heard of him before, but added to the booklist, now.

@EdwardJohn-vf9cu

2 ай бұрын

@@scarling9367 I have always considered his work quintessential reading of traditional witchcraft. He has several books, but Mastering Witchcraft is the best. I believe his early craft work made him very successful in life, see his Wiki page.

"good crops, good fishing, and good luck" - Gerald Gardner

I propose that at the End, you summarize in three sentences, each cult that you have been speaking of… thank you for what you’ve done ❤

I believe it seems some version of 'Panpsychic Naturalism' is gaining steam across a broad base. I've seen it rising in pagan/spiritualist spaces as well as some more mainstream academic spaces.

Great listening. Thank you. Boxes, boxes, and more boxes. The human brain has a habit of trying to keep everything in an ordered and structured way and the belief systems of every one live outside of the boxes we try to put them in. Instead of finding reasons to keep people apart how about we try to find the underlying ideas behind all belief and create unity. When we are united we will be in a better place to connect with other beings throughout the universe who will keep themselves shielded until we are open minded enough to accept ourselves. Much love. 😁🙏🏻❤️🇬🇧

Good, thorough research as always. And Gesundheit!

🧙 Very good. 👍

Loved your sweeping historical overview, including how things have changed in recent years. I practiced Buddhism for many years and now belong to a Wiccan coven. I also have a deep interest in NeoPlatonism and Orphism from ancient Greece, so I am deepening into this path independently (with the help of likeminded online groups and ancient Greek study/tutoring). I love that my coven doesn't force me to chose between being Wiccan and being reconstructionist (or Buddhist, for that matter), as my ultimate goal is to know and to embody the Divine in its many aspects and faces. I don't feel the need to chose. And I love both structured community and independent mystical practice. I don't experience my coven members as being all love and light. I would say that I am the one in the group that is most bent towards pagan theurgy, and the least interested in working spells, but that makes sense, given my ongoing interests. I do realize however that traditional witchcraft takes a very different slant. For me, Alexandrian Wiccan pagan witchcraft + ancient Greek mysticism speaks to different parts of me, and I like the blend in my spiritual practice.

@fernando12972

2 ай бұрын

I recently discovered that orphism survived through pythagorism. There's some groups nowadays that claim to be heirs of the pythagorian tradition.

@TaurusVenus

2 ай бұрын

Yeah! I've heard Pythagoras might have been an Orphic initiate, or at least there's some overlap that. I'm really intrigued by Pre-Socratic philosophy.

Why do so many ex-Wiccans turn into born again Christians?

@melere777

2 ай бұрын

My hot take: I feel like they have similar values and ethics, like the 3-fold Law, so it's not as drastic a transition as it is for other pagan paths.

@DaatDarling

2 ай бұрын

Could do a pod on this if people are interested

@phergoph

2 ай бұрын

They were wiccans (or satanists, or asatru, or muslims, or whatever...) because they were angry at Christianity. Once they grew up they re-adopted their parents religion.

@HiDesert004

2 ай бұрын

@@phergoph I’ve met a few Buddhists who were like that too.

@666_N_94

2 ай бұрын

@@DaatDarlingyes that would be super interesting!

Brilliant. I have to catch up on these podcasts. Work schedule is crazy. As someone that started in the late 90s, what I've seen is that folks have an almost inexhaustible source of information available, now. Before, I had limited access to books (early days of the internet) and even less info on good material. Now, with the internet and social media, I can find out what source material is available and there's literal academics going over material in video or podcast format. We just have a more informed and articulate community than ever before. IMO.

so much you had to cover here! wondering what your thoughts are on Starhawk and Scott Cunningham's contributions to Wicca-were these merely extensions of previous developments or unique contributions? Also Margot Adler's drawing down the moon was probably, for many people, a beginning introduction to "alternative spiritualities.". Thanks so much for posting this and for your other insightful videos. and a non-ironic, sincere Blessed Be to you!

25:00 Robert Graves

I don't think that Wicca is going anywhere anytime soon. However, it does seem that most practitioners are not truly serious about it as a religion and are mainly involved in it for the aesthetics or to be edgy. Besides that, I'm not entirely sure what the primary reason is that people keep hating on Wicca. Surely most of its current controversies have been unfounded, lacking any substantive evidence.

@fernando12972

2 ай бұрын

Wicca is hated because it feels like "satanism", it claims to be it's own unique thing, but it's followers are more worried to piss off christianity than to actually refuting It's mythology. The "goddess DIana marrying with Lucifer" thing mentioned in the podcast is just like that. By saying that Lucifer is a god in It's mithology just means that Lucifer actually exists and that christians are "right". Asatru, for example, deny christianity/judaism/islam in It's entirely, or at least don't confirm that it may be correct. Same thing with Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism.

I'm so ready for this

SRW was mentioned in your section on solitary Wicca - but not Cunningham or Buckland?

@LadyNightsong

2 ай бұрын

Seriously! Buckland was the one who brought Wicca to America, and Cunningham was the one who popularized being a solitary Wiccan more than Silver. Also, In Search of the New Forest Coven was written by Philip Haselton not Ronald Hutton.

@amnocturne

2 ай бұрын

@@LadyNightsongYes! Exactly.

Bless you (sneeze)..love me some history (anykind) and you served me seconds thirds forths and even desert. Great research! ✌️🙂

Totally agree with you on this. I'm in my late 30's and saw the rise and fall of the popularity of Wicca. Of course, I was a young child then. I remember reasearching Wicca and thinking the whole cycle of The goddess birthing her son then sleeping with him kind of put me off. Though I respected those who I did encounter during "Tent" style meetings and celebrations. :p

24:44 hachoo

I thought Wicca Got a horrible rap because it became really popular and every edge lord, creep on the planet claimed to be a practitioner to "hook up with spooky dudes and chicks" Anecdotally I've broken bread with a more "hermetic like" or Classic wiccan practitioners and found them to be Talented, educated and competent, Clearly flush with well earned confidence, likely from attaining edifying results. In the nineties I also found anecdotally that wiccans tended towards a lot of cultural appropriation and many covens functioned more like Chaos, but instead of adopting ideas that work, as they work, they claimed and incorporated it permanently. Being told by the first practicing "reconstructionist" wiccan I've ever met that she was working with the Orixás of candomble was concerning. The group had decided that an easy to learn Ebo, to the Hunter, was compatible with their next Samhain ceremonial gathering on hypothesis that wicca was the "mother religion". This ended horrifically. I've seen this situation duplicated with Norse paganism and unfortunately similar but less medically and psychologically crippling results.( a lot of these individuals are now born again evangelicals, or in prison). anyway thank you for your fantastic and educational content and please forgive my bad grammar and rambling. Chaos undivided

Also Tip-Toe Chick, rest in peace, was also an essential youtube channel to follow for wicca. Harmony love of course also.

(2) This second field should learned with and within an extreme heightened attention and then be fallowed with and within all of its possible directions, as each directions become more and more intricate and highly complex, all of this without even begining to including the many factors in regards to the support or opposing star patterns in regards to top to bottom or left to right and in reverse, the inescapable merging or complet separation factors and the subordinate or insubordinate factors, off, by, for, from and to the birth represented by, off, for, from and to the star pattern as a falling with and within its structure. (Gradual general and specific to the required points consequential reading unfolding and folding structure) The field fallowed from bottom to top and a right to left order and degree levels of folding and unfolding orbit as a half off, by, for, from and to, gives these four triangles and a particular order off, by, for, from and to the star patterns generated consequently. Beginning with (Pieces-Libra-Cancer) fallowed by, for, from, off and to (Capricorn-Leo-Taurus) fallowed with and within a in reverse field only as left to right while maintaining the bottom to top order and degree levels of folding and unfolding orbit through ( Sagittarius-Virgo-Aries ) fallowed by, for, from, off, and to (Aquarius-Scorpio-Gemini). (The twelve layered conscious and subconscious base reading with a sigma thirteenth layer, which can only be taught or learned) This generates one of the most powerful orbits there is, a type of inverting two or multi directional simultaneously with and within itself order and degree levels of folding and unfolding orbit if and when not observed and visualised as a two or even three dimensional structure, if and when yes then a complete linear and none linear order beginning with and within (Pieces, and then consecutively fallowed by, for, from, off, and to Libra, Cancer, Capricorn, Leo, Taurus, Sagittarius, Virgo, Aries, Aquarius, Scorpio, and Gemini) is the result. (The ability to read what seeing is) The word powerful is off, for, from and to a completely different perspective to the usual understanding, and much more in regards to concepts such as patterns, star patterns, horoscope and folding and unfolding orbit, and as far as it concerns this, referred here as the second field, which gives the beginning off, for, from, by and to the orbit falling in and amongst Pieces and the end off, for, from, by, and to the orbit falling in and amongst Gemini, if and when viewed as a two or three dimensional structure. (Fist ever reading of the way) Whereas if and when viewed as a type of inverting two or multi directional simultaneously with and within itself order and degree levels of folding and unfolding orbit, then the beginning off, for, from, by and to the orbit still fall's in and amongst Pieces, whereas the end off, for, from, by, and to the orbit fall's in and amongst Aquarius as the most magnificent of a, any and all possible combinations of points off, by, for, from and to contact and consequently connection as a none linear and linear orbit. (Simultaneous second ever reading of the way) This in turn gives one of the most powerful iqing combination pattern to begin and end with and within if and when required which there is, as a top to bottom or in reverse of ( Yang-Yang-Yin) - (Yang-Yang-Yin) from left to right and (Yin-Yin-Yang) - (Yin-Yin-Yang) in reverse return as a right to left, always baring in mind the (Yin) part from left to right is on top of the two (Yang) and hierarchically ascending bang in the middle as consequence off, by, for, from, and to the pattern structure being a triangle, and the (Yang) part from right to left is on top of the two (Yin) and hierarchically bang in the middle off, by, for, from and to the exact same consequence. (The initial math of the reading) Which makes for, from, off, by, and to a linear and none linear pattern from right to left of highly individual star patterns each as a whole set with and within itself of (Yang-Yin-Yang) - (Yang-Yin-Yang) and as return in reverse from left to right of (Yin-Yang-Yin) - (Yin-Yang-Yin) concluding always with and within a (Yang-Yin) beginning and end or a (Yin-Yang) beginning and end in reverse, one represented as a, any and all possible combinations of a birth falling with and within (Pieces-Gemini) and one represented as a, any and all possible combinations of a birth falling with and within (Pieces-Aquarius). (The two equal sums of the first and simultaneous second ever reading of the way) This method and way, being that it is a triangle way, no specific and precise date of birth has to be ever used, this way nothing can be left to a, any and all possible combinations off, by, for, from, and to an egoistic and malicious behavioural abuse, intentionally or unintentionally, simply a most beautiful and general falling off, by, for, from and to anyone's birth with and within the beginning, middle and the end of the star pattern through its linear and none linear progression orbit around the sun including earth's own orbit in and amongst all the other star patterns. (The first learning of the first and second ever simulations read) Seeing the heavens it instantly gives you a, any and possible combinations of readings as a consequence off, by, for, from and to begin, and a, any and all possible combinations of such readings are only that, corresponding each to it's appropriate level and degree of a, any and all possible combinations of ascending and descending order. This specific order I write about, I will simply put the highest most probable and general reading, one applicable to one and all, based only with and within the foundation off, by, for, from and to the order. (The opening of the eye 👁️) Any birth which has fallen with and within the (density) set, it is the most imperative and extremely crucial for, from, off, by and to such birth to focus and never let go a talent or skill which is highly likable with and within the highest percentage of people, be such a talent or skill a very mundane one. (Free reading) Any birth which has fallen with and within the (symmetry) set, it is the most imperative and extremely crucial for, from, off, by and to such birth to focus and never let go guarding, preservation, managing ability and attribute which is highly beneficial with and within the highest percentage of people, be such a guarding, preservation, managing ability and attribute a very mundane one. (Free reading) Any birth which has fallen with and within the (vibration) set, it is the most imperative and extremely crucial for, from, off, by, and to such birth to focus and never let go forceful directional leading, path showing, actual leading, large scale organisational maintaining, and persistent patterned power, which applicable with and within the highest percentage of people, be such application a very mundane one. (Free reading) Any birth which has fallen with and within the (transformative projectile) set, it is most imperative and extremely crucial for, from, off, by, and to such birth to focus on a concept such as a niche, highly selective general detail, and finalised transformation processes, such as a harvest which is acceptable with and within the highest percentage of people, be such acceptability a very mundane one. (Free reading) Be the likeability (feelings) in regards to the density set, the beneficial (aspects) in regards to the symmetry set, the applicability (function) in regards to the vibration set, and the acceptability (position) in regards to the transformative projectile set, with and within each set already given as a must and crucial to be acted upon reading, a beginning and end Yang having a highly concentrated Yin right in and amongst it's middle, and a beginning and end Yin having a highly concentrated Yang in and amongst it's middle is consequently added. (The math for the free reading) Giving in turn with and within each star pattern as a consequence off, by, for, from and to a beginning, middle and end, meaning the triangle way, a base Yin or Yang as a beginning and end or in reverse and a middle Yin or Yang right in and amongst each individual star pattern,and always in regards to a beginning and end off, by, for, from and to each individual star pattern other than the set itself. (Advice in regards to the proceeding with and within the way) As it can be seen out this foundational very general, and yet probable to the highest degree possible reading, extremely specific and very targeted individual readings can be generated off, by, to, for and from consequently, and always without ever applying any amount of highly personal information in regards to anyone. Simply because, simplicity in regards to infinitely large structural systems, if and when sound as off, by, for, from and to foundations, generated as much specific individuality, its infinitely large attribute allows it to do so, easily observable with and within this particular factual aspect, in understanding that each off, by, for, from and to the twelve star pattern, as a, any and all possible combinations of order, each is or might be placed, each possess with and within its structure, and in and amongst it's pattern, the likeability (feelings), in regards to the density set, the beneficial (aspects), in regards to the symmetry set, the applicability (function), in regards to the vibration set, and the acceptability (position), in regards to the transformative projectile set, according to level, degree and a, any, and all possible combinations of hierarchical ascending and descending order. (The mathematical, medicinal, psychological and spiritual prescription). © Emir Doçaj February 21 / 2024

okay as far as i get it wiccas contraversy was caused because of its popularity and the details about its origins in ceremonial magic. Which i personally can understand, because we all are interpreting these systems in our own way and because there is no real original "paganism". all modern paganism are without any pre-christian roots and borrow things from somewhere. Wicca is just the most mainstreamed one.

Rainbows and khan contemplations ' . T

(1) Seeing the horoscope off, by, for, from, and to the twelve star patterns with and within the triangle way, it's shadow and two very solid reversible as clockwise and anticlockwise iqing foundation start patterns for, from, by, off and to prediction. The twelve star patterns used, divided clockwise or anticlockwise must stand as such, three sets of four, from top to bottom or in reverse, making four sets of three, form left to right or in reverse, including as a consequence clockwise and anticlockwise directions with and within a, any and all possible combinations of directions. As a orbital circle around the sun, involving earth with and within it's own orbit around the sun. The star patterns fit as folding and unfolding off, by, for, from and to different scales of a layered hand held fan structure, giving exactly and precisely the three sets of four, from top to bottom, or in reverse, which in turn give precisely the four sets of three, from left to right, or in reverse. As a twelve number, the triangle way regards to the number sixty six, which is a triangle of eleven standing and a twelve circling, represented by five and five support and a one and one split with and within a whole circling one from top to bottom or in reverse, left to right or in reverse and always clockwise or anticlockwise in a, any and all possible combinations of directions. (Dao .) The four sets of three represent four concepts off, by, for, from and to being which are density, symmetry, vibration, transformative projectile, making three star patterns represent each concept at a, any and all possible combinations of degrees and corresponding levels, and each set is a triangle off, by, for, from and to a five star pattern support from top to bottom or in reverse, left to right or in reverse and always clockwise or anticlockwise in a, any and all possible combinations of directions, making five and five support to the eleven and a one and one split with and within a whole circling one exactly as a twelve star pattern orbit around the sun, which in fact is a folding and unfolding degreed level ascending and descending scale. (The structure) As an iqing foundation two very stable foundations can be as a consequence, and starting from left to right a set of four including three sets each patterns, representing transformative projectile, vibration, symmetry and density are the following, whereas starting from right to left a set of four including three sets each patterns representing, density, symmetry, vibration and transformative projectile are the following. Starting from top to bottom a set of three including four sets each patterns representing all four concepts of being, transformative projectile, vibration, symmetry and density clockwise or density, symmetry, vibration, and transformative projectile anticlockwise, at the corresponding level and degree of a, any and all possible combinations of folding and unfolding at different scales orbits are the following. (The folding and unfolding structure) The sets standings are as follows. Form right to left as four sets of three and a left to right order with and within each set, (Pieces, Scorpius and Cancer) make up the density set. (Aquarius, Libra and Gemini) make up the symmetry set. (Capricorn, Virgo and Taurus) make up the vibration set and (Sagittarius, Leo, and Aries) make up the transformative projectile set, with a Yang and Yin representation included with and within the first two set of threes and another Yang and Yin included with and within the second two set of threes, making a total Yang and Yin representation with and within the whole four set of threes from a right to left order, as a triangle. (The reading structure) The first step is to generate the first field the foundation, meaning in regards to birth, you see where that birth falls with and within which set, always understanding that each set is complied off, by, for, from and to three star patterns which are usually spread throughout the different scalable orbit locations in regards to the sun and each positions degree and level of ascending and descending scale order, with earth's own orbit meaning the births field running in and amongst it as a total whole structure, making always for, from, by, off, and to a highly precise triangle. (Initial reading start structure) This way each star pattern with and within a set, is in turn generated as a set of its own, being that it is it's natural progression through the triangle way linking it to other sets including it's very own. Once the first field is generated the second field becomes gradually visible as a whole twelve star pattern of signs to, by, for, off, and from a, any and all possible combinations of horoscopes, in a completely different order, degree, level and ascending and descending scales off, by, for, from and to left to right, or top to bottom including the reverse, all consequently possible and only related to literal triangle patterns generated off, by, for, from and to the first field with and within the folding and unfolding orbit in regards to the sun, with the earth's orbit, meaning the births falling in and amongst it. (The initial layout reading structure) © Emir Doçaj February 21/2024

The form ציון (Tzion, Tiberian vocalization: Ṣiyyôn) appears 108 times in the Hebrew Bible, and once with article, as HaTzion. From WIKIPEDIA so you wont be all like "HA ANYONE COULD FIGURE THAT ONE OUT!" === HaTzion and the 108 times in the Hebrew Bible and the 108 Mantras/Names of Ganeshanuman. 108, remover the 0, 18=6+6+6 === HaTzion in similitude to Ezio (I was reminded of the video game character from Assassins's Creed Ezio Auditore) and that is "Eagle." === Zion is MOUNT ZION so then equate that with GARUDA the *MOUNT* of Vishnu which is a Eagle-like creature known to Horus-Apep/Aztec Eagle and Snake iconography. === Can you *AUDITORE* me now? === ...well its a cold world and now I'm a stranger stranger than you know... === Can't wait for one of your thralls to "Nice Try" me again LOL Congrats on your latest video breaking through 7,000+ views after such a long drought. === Jose De Jesus Zepeda Ganeshanuman-King Rael-Mik'Els (Ophanim Name) Not going to burden you with my many Incarnation names since you seem to know them all.