I love how positive the designer was by including retractable landing gear in an untested prototype.

@a.p.2356

2 жыл бұрын

That does seem a bit optimistic.

@scootergeorge7089

2 жыл бұрын

@@a.p.2356 - Optimistic not only that it would fly; that it would fly fast enough to gain any benefit from retractable landing gear.

@notcrazy6288

2 жыл бұрын

@@a.p.2356 It sometimes helps to manifest your success in small ways. "Retractable landing gears would make this thing extra-awesome WHEN it works."

@ThomasRonnberg

2 жыл бұрын

Low-key super funny

@absalomdraconis

2 жыл бұрын

Alternatively, was determined to have some success even if the wings didn't.

Literally, an ornithopter imitates the wings of a bird. Being modeled on insects' wings makes an aircraft an entomopter.

@abelq8008

2 жыл бұрын

You're an entomopter.

@RangerDave1959

2 жыл бұрын

I just made the same statement in my comment before scrolling down and finding yours. Have you ever read the Johannes Cabal the Necromancer series of books by Johnathan L. Howard? Entomopters are featured in a couple of those books.

@rg3388

2 жыл бұрын

@@RangerDave1959 No, but in my youth I built a couple flying models based on this principle.

@TSZatoichi

2 жыл бұрын

Sigh, this is why we can't have nice things.

@matthiuskoenig3378

2 жыл бұрын

Actually real life insect winged vehicles and drones are also called ornithopters.

Creative but weird design? Check. French? Check. From the 1930's? Check. Another mad aircraft bingo win!

@moosifer3321

2 жыл бұрын

Ooh la la! The French, leaders in cuisine (??), fashion (??), occasional victors in battle only to lose the war, suppliers or nuclear tech. to Despots and general shitty neighbours - just another example of Gallic lunacy.

@philvanderlaan5942

2 жыл бұрын

Let me see your card , to verify the win

@bob_the_bomb4508

2 жыл бұрын

Not quite. It’s not ugly enough to be French…

@mattheweagles5123

2 жыл бұрын

@@bob_the_bomb4508 it's in the eye of the beholder

@l.clevelandmajor9931

2 жыл бұрын

Um, think a lot earlier,... all the way back to Leonardo DaVinci.

As a lifetime Dune fan this makes me extremely happy, never knew this existed! 😃

@leifvejby8023

2 жыл бұрын

You know about the Passat Ornithopter?

@300guy

2 жыл бұрын

was one of those book's that once I picked up I basically read straight through

@vic5594

2 жыл бұрын

Dune and all of its long drawn out sequels was the worst book ever printed until the Game of Thrones series came along, and even then it's a close run thing Still it served well as toilet paper and something to light the camp fire on an extended camping trip long ago

@shishoka

2 жыл бұрын

Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey exist.

@gufo_tave

2 жыл бұрын

@@vic5594 De gustibus...

What Mr. Riout didn't understand at the time (because slow motion film wasn't a thing yet) was that insect wings don't merely go "up and down", they move in a "figure eight" pattern which is even more insanely difficult to replicate with the technology of the time. Hell, I'm not sure we can replicate it at *this* time.

@pup1008

2 жыл бұрын

For the longest time people couldn't understand how insects could fly, the classic example cited behind the bumble bee. 👍

@xiphosura413

2 ай бұрын

This seems like such an obvious issue that I'm suprised there doesn't seem to be any accommodation for it. The wings were fabric, and mounted at 2 points each, so it is possible that they twisted during the flapping motion though I'm not sure how successful this would have been. Wish we had full documentation for this aircraft. Ah, yes, just after 3:25 it is mentioned the wings are warped, which probably played a role in their failure after such a short time in wind tunnel testing.

The very first image shown of a person with "bird wings" is Otto Lilienthal, who made countless glider flights and inspired the Wright Brothers and many others to pursue heavier than air flight. His glider wings didn't flap, but they did twist for control, an idea later used in the Wright Flyer.

Dune was my absolute favorite book as a teen, absolutely blew my mind.

Speaking of flying insects, here on KZread there is a slow motion video of a Lady Bug extending it's wings, and it's really quite spectacular. Well worth your time.

@jonathanpeden9930

2 жыл бұрын

Could you post a link to the vid pls?

@JoeOvercoat

2 жыл бұрын

KZread is a big place.

H.G.Wells also featured insect-like flying machines with bee type wings in "War in the Air". Earlier science fiction than "Dune"

@yepiratesworkshop7997

2 жыл бұрын

The movie "Cowboys and Aliens" also had them. But, H.G. Wells was probably the most memorable after da Vinci's drawings. I remember my little brother having a rubber-band powered 'bird' that actually flew when you wound it up.

@markojotic

5 ай бұрын

Ornithopters are based on dragonflies.

Ah one of the great experiments , dont forget there was the fletner aircraft . with rotating wings to provived lift . ( the same tech that is now used on E-ship one) .

There are some cool Ornithopter scenes in Laptua: Castle in the Sky too.

@thatguybrody4819

2 жыл бұрын

also Howl's moving castle.

Magnificent men in their flying machines.

@cycleSCUBA

2 жыл бұрын

Looping the loop and defying the ground. Not.

@mpetersen6

2 жыл бұрын

Choice of weapons. Blunderbusses I. Balloons.

@stevenlamb3971

2 жыл бұрын

The "Wrong" stuff....

@mpetersen6

2 жыл бұрын

@@stevenlamb3971 But did it reach the Christie Bullet level* of wrongness *Basement level? Sub-Basement?

@yepiratesworkshop7997

2 жыл бұрын

@@mpetersen6 Hey, I like my blunderbuss. I can feed it damned near anything and -- if I've loaded enough powder -- it'll come out like a fury.

One of the best narrators on youtube: nonsense-free and amiable.

Hayao Miyazaki's animé have featured ornithopters since the 1980s, he really loves them.

@Packless1

2 жыл бұрын

...me too like Hayao Miyasaki's aircraft designs... ...they look both fantastic and realistic... ...b.t.w... ...his parents had a metalworking-shop and produced aircraft-parts during WW2... ...that might explain a lot...! 🙂

@michaeltelson9798

2 жыл бұрын

Especially in “Castle in the Sky “.

@shishoka

2 жыл бұрын

They do look cool, ornithopters.

I would love to see the concept revisited with modern materials, computer assisted design, fly-by-wire controls etc.

@intorsusvolo7834

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/jHemtZdro7CZitY.html

@kyle857

2 жыл бұрын

They have drone and remote control versions. I've seen fairly large bird like ones flying.

@pieterpretorius1014

2 жыл бұрын

modern multi rotor drones are light years more efficient than flapping wings at crazy speeds to achieve flight. even a gyrocopter is better, because they are based on maple seeds

@thefreedomguyuk

2 жыл бұрын

It's a flawed concept. Flapping wings like these are barely generating any lift.

As a Geologist ...i can happily say welcome to the Carboniferous 😉🤣😎 Again i would point adventurous aviators to some very successful RC model ornithoptors.. But i had forgotten about this beauty....modern materials and modelling and it might just become possible. 😎 Cheers Ed.

@dariozanze4929

2 жыл бұрын

Dragonflies are hands down the best fliers in animal kingdom. They can hover in any direction, turn, fly fast and even glide. However due to square/cube law this "design" is limited to small things, insects and drones =)

I love the 4 piece landing gear that fold up into the fuse. its like little insect legs.

And here I thought the 1930s French Delta Canard configuration of the Payen PA 22 and PA 101 were alone in being the ahead of their time.

This is a unique aircraft. Even though it did not work out I appreciate the designers looking outside the box. ( I just saw a Dragon Fly in my backyard today ! ).

@rob5944

2 жыл бұрын

I've always scoffed (along with most) at mans early attempts to acquire powered flight by mimicking nature. However, on reflection, it does indeed seem quite reasonable to do this. Insects and animals are a wonder to behold whenever one cares take a few moments to appreciate the world around us. Sitting here thinking about the above video, is there a specific reason why larger creatures don't use this type of method of propulsion?

A bit unfair to blame the engine. J A Prestwich (JAP) engines are amongst the finest ever built in their class. Years ahead of their time for quality, precision and power to weight and dimensions. It was still powerful enough to destroy the wings.

@ai-d2121

2 жыл бұрын

I may have heard it wrong but the wings were blamed. Not the engine.

@Anmeteor9663

2 жыл бұрын

@@ai-d2121 heard that after Ed said the engine was a not delivering its specified power. Operator error I would think. 😉

@turtlewolfpack6061

2 жыл бұрын

It was in a wind tunnel test, the engine wasn't running when the wings failed. All simulated.

@pierauspitz

2 жыл бұрын

@@turtlewolfpack6061 nope, the engine was running, or the wings would not flap. The wind tunnel was used to simulate apparent wind

Actually, it was Leonardo da Vinci in the 1480's who first drew a design for an ornithopter. The word itself was not coined until the early 1900's, but the concept of a flying machine which flapped it's wings is much olders.

@PaulG.x

5 ай бұрын

Some Greek dude wrote of making wings of feathers and wax a long time before that

@Rigel_Chiokis

5 ай бұрын

@@PaulG.x true. But that was a man, not a machine. An ornithopther is machine.

@RCAvhstape

4 ай бұрын

@@Rigel_Chiokis DaVinci's machine drawing was human-powered, just like the wax wings of Icarus. Splitting hairs here.

Perhaps it’s worth saying that the physics of this type of machine work much better for small aircraft. In fact it works better (in principle) for very small aircraft - such as micro-drones - than those that use fixed and/or rotating wings. There has been an active research program to develop such drones, including for military purposes.

@harrycover9180

2 жыл бұрын

Works well essentially with very low Reynolds number, where viscosity has more influence than inertia

@old_guard2431

Жыл бұрын

For someone with a technical bent, comparing the efficiency of this kind of design to the more conventional multi-rotor configuration for a hovering drone would be an interesting exercise.

@NoahSpurrier

4 ай бұрын

Propellers are still better at all scales.

@RCAvhstape

4 ай бұрын

Notice in real life that the bigger the flying creature is, the slower it tends to flap its wings. A bald eagle vs. a honeybee for example. The machines in Dune are certainly cool-looking, but I imagine a machine capable of doing that would be horribly uncomfortable to ride in due to the vibration. For how they were used in the film, it seems a conventional helicopter would make more sense.

in the Dune novel the ornithopters actually were based off birds, there are mentions of the wings having feather like trailing edge surfaces, and only two wings are ever mentioned (as are harrier like vectored jet thrust). the film however used dragonflies for their inspiration, which while inaccurate to the book, makes for a more plausible and interesting visual.

Great video! I’d love to see a fully functional ornithopter in real life … I wonder with the advances in tech, composite materials, miniature electronics and control systems if it could be possible with current levels of advancements

@mulgoon874

2 жыл бұрын

no it wont , just because it works on the small doesnt mean it can be scaled up

@ModelMinutes

2 жыл бұрын

@@mulgoon874 there are aircraft flying today that are literally bigger than houses, I imagine a hundred years ago people said the same thing

@ModelMinutes

4 ай бұрын

@@moshe7019 welcome to the party, only a year late

@psxtuneservice

4 ай бұрын

There is russian channel, he built a large remote controlled ornicopter....maybe the size of a large deep freeze

The insect creates an air vortex with the flapping wings and a low pressure space around itself, and air pressure pushes the insect up into the air.

Good morning everyone

@EdNashsMilitaryMatters

2 жыл бұрын

Morning!

@iancurtis1152

2 жыл бұрын

Ditto😁

@comentedonakeyboard

2 жыл бұрын

Bonjour

Now I suddenly remembered this! Since I was kid, I read my favourite book. It's called Dinotopia: A Land Apart from Time by James Gurney. They're building the dragonfly with the machine.

@Nedula007

Жыл бұрын

Hah. I have been thinking of this book I had years ago, forgot the title and your comment unlocked so many memories! I think the book I had was World Beneath. I just remember robotic dinosaurs that people rode or piloted. Thanks for that!

That's funny ! I saw the frame for that ornithopter at the Anger Aeroport museum last summer. after seeing the new dune . thanks for making this i was curious about the history of the shell at the museum . they also have pieces of the Hindenburg zeppelin at that museum!

This is just too cool! To have taken the idea this far, especially after the early experimental days of flight, is totally bizarre. Thanks!

I've just taken the Dune Ornithopter for a test flight around my home town of York in Microsoft Flight Simulator VR and I can honestly say it was absolutely incredible......!

10/10 for the french , it’s not easy saying name places in another language . 👊

@kostis2849

2 жыл бұрын

Subtract 5 for the pronunciation of "Riout" and Alerion"

Mr. Nash, you find us sime real oddities. Thank you for sharing!

Thank you. It looks magnificent

Very interesting, thank you. FWIW: The primary issue for man-size ornithopters isn't necessarily materials science but a fundamental matter of scale. Air becomes relatively more viscous as you get smaller with the result that insects don't fly at all - they swim through the air! But at human scales air is not at all viscous so swimming through the air just doesn't work. The result is replicating insect fight for humans can't be done... ...while a genuine blow to the idea of working ornithopters that doesn't mean there is no hope. Micro-drones on the scale of insects would probably work better than the more usual propeller driven variety. For us humans flapping wings might still have merit but more in the way birds do it than insects... but as we already fly like birds, just with separate propulsion rather than flapping, one wonders if learning to flap is useful?

@theorangeofallahpbuh1840

2 жыл бұрын

I think that trying to replicate the flapping of wings would not really be very advantageous. In the same way being able to replicate the way we walk and put it machines as a transportation mechanism, would probably be worse than the wheels we already have, as both legs and wings are more suited to the limitations and needs of creatures, limitations and needs which machines do not have.

@northropi2027

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, this is why I'm kinda peeved that people don't seem to differentiate between ornithopters and insectithopters. The mechanism is fundamentally different.

@JoeOvercoat

2 жыл бұрын

If you could propel yourself with the same mechanism that you’re lifting yourself yes that would be an intrinsic advantage that would no doubt provide weight and power advantages that would translate to a greater operating envelope.

@cornishcactus

2 жыл бұрын

I wonder if what we do is already better and it's just evolving a drive shaft and propeller is tricky for nature.

@theorangeofallahpbuh1840

2 жыл бұрын

@@JoeOvercoat why would it be an intrinsic advantage?

I love Dune, I had now idea this existed. Now I do!

I do love that it has wheel wells, which means they actually expected this thing to fly well enough that retracting the gear would be needed.

Thanks to our Author for another airframe story ….!I’m surprised they just didn’t make an auto gyro or a copy of the Focker helicopters….there were designs that had years of developmental head start … but then we wouldn’t have these stories of aerodynamic evolution…

@Packless1

2 жыл бұрын

...indeed...autogyros were a thing in those days, and in the 1930s the first real helicopters showed up...!

@stephenrickstrew7237

2 жыл бұрын

@@Packless1 the Germans were way ahead with their designs

@JStryker7

2 жыл бұрын

Because they were French

@MarzoVarea

2 жыл бұрын

For a gorgeous French helicopter design of that era, check the Gyroplane G.20.

Considdering the fact that I have never heard of a operational ornithopter till now, other than small scale models, I am rather shocked that this vehicle has not been more talked about! From what I understand, it did hover, and in tethered wind tunnel test could do 81 miles per hour! Sounds like a serious competitor of the then state of the art helicopter! Especially since this was a one off test vehicle! Why has no one pursued this avenue? Considdering all the unusual experimental projects you see done by tinkered and crackpots, you would think this ought to be right up their alley!

@JoeOvercoat

2 жыл бұрын

I do not believe that was a tethered test in the sense that you’re thinking of, rather the aircraft was on a pylon while air was blown across it at 81 mph. That’s my understanding from that passage.

@mahbriggs

2 жыл бұрын

@@JoeOvercoat You may be right, it was a bit unclear. I take it the other way.🤔 Even so, it clearly stated it was capable of hovering, which is no mean feat!

@kyle857

2 жыл бұрын

@@mahbriggs it could not achieve lift

@mahbriggs

2 жыл бұрын

@@kyle857 And your source?

@mahbriggs

2 жыл бұрын

@@kyle857 Evidently you have none. It clearly stated it did hovering test.

Never knew this was actually built and tested. Wow

Somebody needs to revisit this idea with modern materials and see just how far they can take it.

Couldn't even imagine such a fusion of fantasy and real history! Thanks for this introspection. Our ancestors were pretty adventurous and optimistic as well. I doubt I'd like enter history standing on the bird winged craft like @0:40. If it flew... Say one hundred feet below and you are standing on the top of the craft holding its wings. What did he think about? Though just imagine his audacious mind!

@mroygl

2 жыл бұрын

This was the ornithopter by Edward Frost. Its second(!) combustion engine powered version lifted from the ground in 1904! Edward wasn't totally crazy but he was audacious indeed, persevering, and eventually successful. He has my great respect! Especially that I wouldn't dare to take the flight.

What you said at the end of the video where it's kept at was a mouth full

Interesting. Now I want to make a flying model of it.

A Polish fluid dynamicist once worked out why some aerodynamic solutions that work very well indeed on a small scale are an absolute no go with increasing scale. Atmospheric density /size of gas molecules is a key factor. I’m amazed that one would build, at great expense, such a big beautiful thing and then try to force it to work without having gradually scaled up actual working models to determine the limits of feasibility.

👀Sou fã da aviação! Eu nunca tinha visto esse projeto. Vídeo excelente! 🌟👍

Gosh that dune movie was so good. It’s cool to see some of the origins of this amazing franchise.

Considering the SHEER Complexity of a Helicopter's Rotor Hub , and these days , robust construction , I think there is nothing unsolvable to make this WORK . And an Emergency Default setting could probably allow it to GLIDE if needed . Potentially VERY Safe .

Very interesting, As always. Thanks.

never heard this before. Great stuff!

wow, crazy, no idea this aircraft concept was a real attempted thing. There's no way this would have actually worked, right? I can't believe those wings would have been able to beat fast enough to create much lift without shaking the entire thing apart, not to mention posses the range of movement and moment to moment adjustability required to maintain controlled maneuverable flight? Aren't scientists just now beginning to understand how dragon flies can even fly?

@jebise1126

2 жыл бұрын

yeah probably the stress on those wings... also constant acceleration deceleration cant be good for efficiency. so if it works its way worse that helicopter i guess

@ats-3693

2 жыл бұрын

It can work in theory but in practical reality there is just too much force and stress associated with the reciprocating masses of the wings, rotating wings or blades are way more mechanically efficient and the only reason this is something man made that is better than nature made is because obviously rotating wings aren't possible in nature.

@lucidnonsense942

2 жыл бұрын

People make couple meter big "ornithopter" drones fairly frequently - the problem with scaling up is cost. The mechanical stress on the wings would require super expensive composites and alloys, for what - to make something that performs like a worse helicopter but costs 1000x as much? But yes, you COULD make it work IRL with modern tech, but until there is some niche that requires it (transport among floating habitats in gas giants is one suggestion, the design is more resilient to density changes) - there is no point.

@DL-kc8fc

2 жыл бұрын

Science already knows that for small sizes and very small weights, eddy currents provide sufficient support in the air. You are right that this is a finding of recent years when it was possible to use the "visibility" of processes that were thought to be anti-floating. Apparently due to the selection, there are no larger bee animals in the wild, because it just didn't work and they were destined to perish. The so-called "proven" size remained. Energy is also quite important - a large bee insect needs it more than a small one. The wings of bees contain very little inertia and this is one of the many important prerequisites for flying this way. There are RC models that can mimic insect flying and actually fly, but their wings must contain very little inertia, have higher engine power and again enter the overall size, which can still take advantage of air vortices and the inertia of the air itself (air is also matter and its property has a great effect on flying). Enthusiasts of this method usually did not have sufficient education in physics or mechanics. Nor did they intuitively estimate that the macro-scale of this principle is a dead end. But thanks to them, history is richer.

@chloekaftan

2 жыл бұрын

@@jebise1126 you can perform an up and down motion without actually creating constant acceleration and deceleration by oscillating the movement of the wings in a semi-circular fashion, many different machines use this physics concept for a similar purpose to reduce stress on the machine.

Never knew of this aircraft. Very interesting.

‘Birds were flapping around all over the place, quite happily’ Basically a night at Tiger Tiger in Croydon in the 90’s

Ornithopters have no advantages I can think of for mechanical flyers. Helicopter rotors are fiendishly complicated, yet ornithopters make them look sane by comparison. Even if the wings could be made of suprt-light super-strong unobtanium, did any of these designers ever consider how much that body would be hopping up and down, equally and oppositely in Newtonian reaction to the wings? ETA I have to correct myself here. Googled for "slow motion dragonfly" and found videos which show dragonflies alternate wingstrokes -- forward up and rear down, and vice versa -- which would cancel out Newtonially. I don't know if this particular ornithopter did alternate wing strokes. I would have though the aerodynamic interference would have made it impossible, but I guess dragonflies beg to differ.

@juansimard735

2 жыл бұрын

looking at the images in the video it does look like it alternates the wings, the wings sitting next to each other is probably the middle of the stroke

@matthiuskoenig3378

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe you should do some research before commenting next time? A resent study done by aeonuatical engineers from all around the world useing actual ornithopters found it is 40% more energy efficient for a give amount of thrust than ulternatives. And it has been the concensus for over 10 years that drone ornithopters are quieter and more maneuverable than other drones and there is no reason it wouldn't also apply on larger scale. Cornwell University also proved ornithopters are more stable than other aircraft designs about 10 years ago. Ornithopters are also predicted to have faster maximum speeds than any other non-jet aircraft.

@grizwoldphantasia5005

2 жыл бұрын

@@matthiuskoenig3378 1. Insults are fun! 2. No links to back you up? For shame! 3. Scaling has problems which you should perhaps research before commenting.

Great video! Thank you!

Pity there's no footage of it trying to fly. It's certainly a work of art. Perhaps an aircraft like this could be built using modern tech and could work.

You know by how to pick them Ed!

Fantastic. Thank You

Quite large RC models have and are being flown around the world

I love how when you put the mouse pointer over the link to this page, the title, "keep hovering to play" appears.

I know this comment is a long one, but here goes!!! I have seen this mini series several times, and loved it!!! I have always love Frank Herbert's Dune Trilogy!!! But even more than loving it, I love the technology of Dune too. The Ornithopter, the round balls in the caves that when shook would actually light up!!! and they delivery non polluting light!!! The Spice that turns everyone's eyes blue. I loved the Being that allowed the spaceships to traverse space itself!!! That "Being" was a "Spiritual Being!!!" I'm a Whitelighter, a Lightworker, a Energy Healer, and The Empress Mary of Temple Lemuria (LOST) and I do want to return to the floating cities, and the sacred shrine of Temple Lemuria, that is way out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. I see myself as a planet healer, but not exactly like Paul Atreides in Dune, but all the same, I have a major role to play in getting our planet to a state of thriving, and not merely in a state of surviving, which is in a sense, like saying, "I'm Dying" which is no good for the planet. In Frank Herbert's Dune the piezo electric quartz nodule engine reigns supreme, not what we use here, but what we are use to here on earth is the internal combustion engine (ICE), which creates global warming. I do want to see the technologies that ran Paul's Planet of Arrakis rise once more, only it would be earth's Temple Lemuria and Lemuria's technologies can and do benefit our planet, and don't destroy it, and you may think I'm the crazy one, the nut job over here, or that I'm just plane/plain nuts, but it will take a person like me to see a world that hasn't existed since the 6th Golden Age here on earth, to establish the 7th Golden Age here on earth, and to create the magnetically locking devices, that will magnetically lock floating cities in the sky, 10 miles up in the sky!!! all around our beautiful planet!!! Sincerely, Kelly PS: Yes, I expect my comment to be removed, because I do represent change, not something our ordained elected government would ever endorse. That's All!!! Have a Beautiful Day!!! Maybe one day the craft of Ancient Lemuria, that were magnetic levitation, and all home appliances, etc. will operate under this principle, of piezo electric quartz nodules, and our world will be as far different as Paul's World is now, but it will be a environmentally clean world.

That was incredible. I am glad it survived.

Really fascinating thanks 👍😊

There is a lot better chance of such an aircraft being successful today than there was back then, with better materials and technology available, we just may see one flying someday in the near future. It is totally possible today to build a Remotely Controlled flying scale model of this particular aircraft now. Thank you for sharing this and posting this video for us all to see! Otherwise, we would not have learned of it’s existence. Please have an excellent and awesome day! ☀️✨✈️

Wow, this Riout 102T Alérion Ornithopter I have never seen before (and I have seen a lot of old special aircrafts, in books)

A design based on insects' wings is less complex than birds' wings (unless you consider hummingbirds). I think the issues would be: 1. Strength and rigidity vs flexibility of the wings. 2. Weight of the fuselage/payload, of course. 3. The motion of the wings. I'm thinking a high angle of attack would be necessary for the upswing and low angle of attack for the downswing.

So no actual flight tests were prosecuted? Or a moored, engine/propulsion system trial, just the wind-tunels with a running engine (+"wings")?

@gort8203

2 жыл бұрын

Based on what is seen in this video I don't even believe it would fly at all. It looks like the solid wings just flap up and down in a single plane of movement, which would seem to push as much air up as it does down. I don't see how warping them to provide some forward thrust would overcome the net lack of lift. Insect wings don't simply flap up and down on a hinge in one plane, they have more complex movements that move the air in a net direction rather than just back and forth. Anyone got film of this aircraft flying?

@bobcranberries5853

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly what I was thinking not even a mention as to whether or not it might have been able to fly….

The problem is that a Dragonfly's wings are actually pretty flexible. The leading edge is obviously the stiffer part, but the trailing edge and areas in-between flex more or less depending on what's required and can change direction in a split second. A bird's wing is also flexible. Flapping is a major technological problem.

Interessante também é o alojamento do trem de pouso, além das asas de libélula .

I believe the photo at 35 secs into the video is Otto Lilianthal and his glider. He had hundreds of flights and did die from his last. But not an ornithopter. I met a guy, James L. G. Fitzpatrick of Staten Island, who was working on flapping flight. I think he was on the faculty of the local college. He had devised testing systems to gain data from various wing types. From what I recall his data was spot on, compared to legit aeronautical facilities. Later I think he made a full sized craft, powered by compressed air. But I never heard of it results.

very cool, interesting video!!!

0:25 The picture in the backround is Otto Lilienthal his gliders had fixed wings. Its just an unmatching picture to what is been said in the Video.

When it comes to flight I recon this shows the imagination and determination of the pioneers of flight that led to the aviation of today.

Wow, great to know the French Frank Herbert's "Dune"

I can imagine what carbon fiber construction would do for this design especially using computers for stability and controls, and a modern small turbine

@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent

2 жыл бұрын

it would only be useful on perhap smaller craft like drones and or light aircraft. it would be interesting to see them work. anything heavier would need new research into material and tech like something similar to muscle

@ronaldharris6569

2 жыл бұрын

@@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent how about linear induction motors and metal cables to stand in for muscles? The limits are only imagination

@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent

2 жыл бұрын

@@ronaldharris6569 they should be able to work so long as said parts can maintain the stress. So long as they are capable of taking the stress of the movement of the props (wings) then yes they should allow it to create lift, and the neccessary movement to allow it to function. The only way to know is to create a working concept

I like it. Very cool looking.

Le premier article sur le Riou 102T a été publié en 2005 dans le numéro 7 du magazine français "Aviation Française Magazine", écrit par Philippe Ricco, et toutes les photos de votre vidéo proviennent de cet article.

quite a find there !

Very interesting thanks 👍

Hell's Teeth Ed I though this was a spoof ............ When I satrted to check I was amazed to discover not only is your Riout 102T genuine but there's a fair number of flying model Ornithopters.

I love the flywheel in the powertrain. The aluminum skin smooth construction was way premature.

You make me chuckle Ed. Where on earth you dug this up from heaven knows ! But it was an attractive design . Thanks Ed.

Do a search for videos of the Flapter, and other similar designs, there are working models now. And with modern composite materials, a full scale one could be built and flying in a very short time.

Thank you

Amazing design, even more amazing it achieved flight. However I think full size flapping wings are too much of a challenge today, e.g. it'd take enormous energy to flap the typical wings of today's aircraft

The recent Dune flick got the thopters right imo, but I don't know if they explained in universe why they use flapping wing tech vs rotary helicopter, or simply antigravity tech that they obviously had small enough for suits and on most other flying craft

Thumbs up for being able to pronounce the name of that museum!

This is a Leonardo DaVinci invention.

Less than 25 years separates this aircraft from the Hawker VTOLs.

@chriscarbaugh3936

2 жыл бұрын

Amazing

Pienso que aún no existe materiales compuesto capas de soportar tales vibraciones al mismo tiempo que soporte la estructura y peso de la máquina pero es interesante la idea

4:00 It hovered in wind tunnel testing? Or was the hovering simulated by suspending it (with cables?) in the wind tunnel?

these flying vehicles shown in the movie Dune are based on the dragonfly flight system, and the book clearly describes ornithopters based on the bird flight system, i.e. slow flight with lazy flapping of wings

There are birdlike ornithopters in the movie "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow"

It is somewhat ironic how WW2 advanced some aircraft designs such as jets. while others like this one came to an end. I think we'd all like to have seen it fly. Without the wings collapsing. A couple of insect related aircraft stories for you. There is a story that Dr. Ernst Heinkel, the German aircraft designer, once told Hitler that the it was impossible for the bee to fly, but because as the bee did not know this it could fly. When I first came across this my thoughts were that the fact that the bee flies would suggest the Heikel was wrong. Turns out Heinkel was wrong, yes there's a surpise. High speed video has shown that not only does the bee fly but that it's method of flying is so advanced that we are not likely to replicate it anytime soon. Story number two. And here's one you may be able to make a video on. Post WW2 Britain built a research aircraft using something taken from some flying insects. In the past some insects had four wings but today only have two. A short stub of the original wing is still there and acts as a counterbalance to the remaining wing. So when the remaining wings beats down the wing stubs move up as a counter balance. This helped that insect with stability. So with the idea in mind it was thought that this could help with keeping aircraft stable when they fly. So they tried it out. The aircraft took off and once in the air the test pilot switch them on. Now it has been some time since a read about this so some of it is a bit sketchy. But as I remember it the stabilisers immediately cause great difficulties for the test pilot which left him struggling to fly the aircraft as the stabiliser was causing a lot of vibration. What's more he could not switch the stabiliser off so all he could do was extremely carefully fly the aircraft in a circuit until he could land it. He said it was the most terrifying experience he's ever had in his life. And no it was never flown again.

Am I missing something or would this design make negligible lift & never fly even if it "worked"? Rigid wings flapping straight up & down would cancel out almost all the lift unless they're hinged to fold into the wind on the upstroke or swiveling & doing a complex motion

@imadrifter

2 жыл бұрын

I believe it works with a sort of swash plate like a helicopter employs, where the wings rotate to provide lift during the downward motion, and rotate back to pass up without creating drag

@nathansmith3608

Жыл бұрын

@@imadrifter yea, the wing would have to rotate to 'knife-edge' orientation when moving upwards to not cancel lift, but look at 2:40 - doesn't it have the wrong hinge for that?

@imadrifter

Жыл бұрын

@@nathansmith3608 yeah I meant conceptually.

@imadrifter

Жыл бұрын

@@nathansmith3608the 102T clearly had some design flaws mostly due to I assume the time period and the lacking of manufacturing complexity.

Building a crow or insect sized ornithopter isn't all that hard but there's a reason that giant birds are freaking rare.

@None-zc5vg

2 жыл бұрын

The "twin-wing" arrangement will work for insects because of their small scale/weight , their strong and flexible wing-structure and the energy available to drive the wings. It just can't be done on a bigger scale by using man-made structures that can't replicate the necessary wing movements without disintegrating, even if a complicated,reliable apparatus to actuate those movements can be made. A lot of power would be needed to work everything.

@Oldtanktapper

5 ай бұрын

And the largest flight capable birds we do have are gliding specialists.

Its been a very long time since i read dune but i recall the ornithopters being described as having bird like flight. I believe the recent movie deviated from the biok for the dragonfly design. Also funny the 1984 movie went with an amost wingless design. I couldn't findconfirmedd images from the 2000 tv miniseries

Can't imagine anything reaching the required rate of wingbeat to support flight. Also, the strain on the wing joints must be enormous, constantly and abruptly switching between the upwards and downwards thrusts.

In Jules Verne's 1905 novel *Master of the World*, the mad scientist's amphibious-and-submersible "automobile" could also fly ... and it "rose under the impulse of its machinery like a bird with its huge wings beating with tremendous power!"

Someday they will have an effective ornithopter. . Would be a very effective military asset... but at least 50 years away.. likely three times that

@FirstDagger

2 жыл бұрын

No, too many moving parts to be an effective military asset.

@gort8203

2 жыл бұрын

Only in science fiction.

Problems with strength of materials not scaling with the forces on large flapping wings. The early attempts at flight were done with next to no knowledge of aerodynamics so it was natural to try to imitate birds, but how strong to make the structure and how much power it would need were pure guesswork. Lillienthal's fixed-wing gliders either flew or fell in a forward direction, depending on your definition of "flying". Langley had ample resources but still based his design on intuition rather than knowledge gleaned from testing. It was the Wrights who approached the problem from first principles, gathering data through experiments, progressing from kites to gliders to powered aircraft. By the time they were flying two-seaters they well understood what their airplanes could do and could predict how design changes would affect performance.