For a billion dollar show, you think they can afford quality writers, showrunners.

@tomanderson6233

Жыл бұрын

Amazon got what they wanted. What they want sucks.

@Nicitel94

Жыл бұрын

I'm convinced the script and dialogues were written by AI. I've seen some of that before and it feels like it to me. Bland and soulless.

@RandyLeftHandy

Жыл бұрын

Or armor that doesn't look like painted card board.

@bubblehulk7647

Жыл бұрын

The editing kills me just as much. If not more. I was extremely confused when Galadriel was being sent away while Miriel sees the petals falling ominously, then it cuts to Miriel announcing the She was going with Galadriel to Middle Earth. I felt like I missed a scene in the middle.

@anirudhbharadwaj1342

Жыл бұрын

You know most of that money went into buying critics and pretentious fans to give them positive reviews before the show premiered.

The fact that it’s even come to this: the writers/show runners having to respond to the huge outcry for the crap series they’ve put out, tells you all you need to know….

@CorePathway

Жыл бұрын

They are narcissists. First they are infallible. Second they can feign some humility, but it’s just an act. But when they are humiliated, they attack. They quite literally cannot handle the truth and will to their deathbeds believe they made a great show with great writing and a great script. They simply cannot believe otherwise. Not possible. Kinda like a recent US politician of large, Cheeto-hued stature.

If they do not replace the entire writers' room - including themselves as writers - then there is no hope.

If it is a labor of love, why do they warp and twist Tolkien's themes and ideas? The timeliness is wrong, Galadriel is frankly evil, the idea that mithril is related the Silmarils, and that the elves lose their immortality and need the light of the Silmarils? There is more but this is just the ones I can think of right now. Thus seems to be fan fiction, the kind a teenager with a several AP English courses could do better.

@mikem9001

Жыл бұрын

Well put!

@scalefree

Жыл бұрын

I'll give you my own answer to this: because ROP is not based on a single finished text complete with all characters, dialog & events already given to them. the Hobbit & LOTR are complete novels that just need to be adapted to the screen. ROP is based on multiple fragmentary & frequently contradictory sources (much from the LOTR Index notes) & deliberately excluding large parts of the most developed & complete narratives (anything else, especially anything exclusively in Silmarillion). when you go from that starting point, of necessity you have a fragmentary narrative that needs filling in, a lot of it. that means inventing source material. I don't really like it but those are the ground rules we're working with.

@ianmacdiarmid1249

Жыл бұрын

@@scalefree but they still contradict many things Tolkien was explicit about. The excuse they only have fragments to work from falls apart when they take well established characters and completely change them.

@scalefree

Жыл бұрын

@@ianmacdiarmid1249 Completely in keeping with Tolkien himself. Did the Blue Wizards arrive in the Second or Third Age? Were Orcs twisted Elves or something else? I'm not saying I agree with all their decisions. But the landscape of source material for ROP to start from & the amount of it declared off limits makes any adaptation of the Numenor story basically impossible to tell faithfully & completely. It's a skeleton of a ship. It needs a lot to be filled in or it won't so much sink as fall to the bottom.

@scalefree

Жыл бұрын

I believe the answer to both questions is 'yes' working solely from Tolkien's own words.

I fail to understand why WE are supposed to have SYMPATHY for a BILLION dollar project not hitting the mark. I don't care how much the show runners think they "are coming from a good place". For whatever reason, the way things have worked at Amazon with this show have not been equipped to handle such an enormous task. Overly ambitious with the scope and too much political criteria to fulfill in order to focus on creating a good show. Cry me a river

@Rdude4444

Жыл бұрын

Well said

@Jmike12345

Жыл бұрын

I’m coming from a good place too, I avoid trash entertainment that offends or annoys me. I’m in a happy place not watching their product.

@Earendil_1510

Жыл бұрын

Absolute garbage writing. Stupid original plots. Boring characters. And dumb pointless mystery boxes. The show was an absolute disaster. They butchered galadriel and sauron’s characters completely.

@Earendil_1510

Жыл бұрын

The broken sword and nerd of the rings are constantly promoting the show due to their association with amazon. Its sad they’ve given up their integrity. Men of the west are much more honest and true to tolkien.. they even apparently rejected amazon’s invite for exclusive access!

Wait, let's not blame ourselves for writing a troupe filled less than generic fantasy Tolkien skin suit, let's blame the fans!

@James_Lo

Жыл бұрын

Yeah but the actual apendix this is based on, and The Silmarillion, are just generic fantasy. It's Tolkien's narrative writing, for The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings that excel those particular stories.

@fortium1025

Жыл бұрын

@@James_Lo I wish the haters would concede this fact and acknowledge that whatever they imagine to be a better portrayal would be just as worthy of criticism as the current production.

@James_Lo

Жыл бұрын

@@fortium1025 You're probably right. Don't get me wrong I myself half a fair few critiques towards the show, but when I see the constant use of silly buzzwords and phrases like 'generic fantasy', I begin to realise that the discourse around the show is more derived from vitriol than an interest in either the show or books.

@letsreviewcrapwriting

Жыл бұрын

@@James_Lo this show is literally just one giant lazy deus ex machina with stupid dialogue, but then again if you like trash, you like trash

@fortium1025

Жыл бұрын

@@James_Lo Nicely said. I agree all the way.

Bad writing is bad writing. It’s not magically going to lead to some amazing payoff.

@logos4929

Жыл бұрын

Best comment in the thread

Saying Braveheart is real and lived in when it really was half written tropes, makes me start to understand why the writers don't understand how to write. Rob Roy seems more grounded in reality than brave heart while also having decent writing... these guys were very unconvincing in their article

@finalgirl640

Жыл бұрын

Yep. I caught that too

This line from the article: "Tolkien's world has a long, unfortunate history of attracting fascist adjacent admirers..." That sentence has no value other than painting a picture of Tolkien fans as baddies. Well, in my response, it is well known that the Hollywood reporter is a hotbed of totalitarian liars. See how easy that was? I certainly didn't add anything productive to the conversation. Hrmm.....

@braddishv3146

Жыл бұрын

At least your comment is grounded in reality.

@padenbang7375

Жыл бұрын

I haven't read the article. But holy shit do they really say that??!! Wtf 🤣 "Guys Nazis love lotr" is so fucking weird and out of pocket. The sentiment that anyone who has criticisms about a piece of media, is a fascists is really weird and gross.

@Oozaru85

Жыл бұрын

@@padenbang7375 Its the same reason why you can't have viking tatoos or hairstyles or clothes or anything related to vikings, because then you're automatically a racist and Nazi, just because some people from the far right also happen to like vikings and their culture. It's f*cking stupid. I mean, hey. The austrian painter loved dogs. Are we nazi's now, if we like dogs? Ridiculous.

@mikem9001

Жыл бұрын

@@padenbang7375 True. Its good that people are spreading the news about this.

@thedrewb2273

Жыл бұрын

@@padenbang7375 You should read the article, it doesn't say what you're worried about

I feel this was an attempt at damage-limitation PR (things like "it will all come together in the end" and "season 2 will be better", etc), and not wholly convincing. The problem is, at this point unless the last two episodes of Season 1 are absolutely stunningly good (and there's no reason to believe that this will be the case), they will already have lost a large proportion of the Tolkien fandom. There will be some new people who don't mind all the lore changes, or some Tolkien fans who watch it maybe because they're already signed up to Prime for other reasons, but those who signed up especially for this may disappear. Season 2 is therefore critical: if they also get this season wrong, it will be the end for the show. Amazon should therefore seriously think about whether these particular show-runners are the correct ones to fix the trajectory of the series, especially with the juxtaposition of House of Dragons being a relative success. I personally would replace them with a high-calibre director and see what he or she can do to save this. In the end, people might then say "Season 1 of RoP sucked, but the rest was really good" - which wouldn't be entirely a bad thing.

@lyrilljackson

Жыл бұрын

plz. relative success is still not actual success.

@seanmiller5460

Жыл бұрын

Worked for parks and recreation. First season sucked, but they reevaluated what they did wrong, and salvaged a decent show. It doesn't seem like these showrunners can admit being wrong, and that will sink this series.

@CoastalReaction

Жыл бұрын

Well the show isn't meant to be good, it's meant to demoralize fans, who all happen to be white.

@CorePathway

Жыл бұрын

@@seanmiller5460 Parks and Rec didn’t have to thrive under the shadow of a towering giant, excuse me, THE towering giant of high fantasy. Season One so completely trashed Tolkien and canon that there is no coming back.

I’m getting so tired of hearing about how much they want to respect the original story and it’s legacy when they changed 95% of the story. It’s so strange to me that despite both the Tolkien estate and Amazon going on and on about respecting the story that the rights to the original story weren’t bought or sold and I don’t understand why. I feel like all the interviews I’ve seen are just completely disingenuous pr and even though I understand why that is I wished we could get even a shred of honesty.

@blaxpoitation8528

Жыл бұрын

They changed 98% of the story smh. There is NOTHING in this season so far on the show, that had happened in the books. Not a single storyline. I said 98% to be generous lol. They have not been faithful (no foreshadowing pun intended) to Tolkien or the source material at all. It’s really infuriating.

@NovRen19

Жыл бұрын

Mae G'ovannen! Now the evidence is clear, and none can deny that "ROP" is not of Tolkien. Take heart and join us for EXSURGE TOLKIEN that makes robustly clear the heresy of "ignorance" of Tolkien's Canon displayed out of the showrunner's mouths and hearts. They probably know nothing of Tolkien's masterpiece, as evident from their interview in the Vanity Fair Article. For "they who proclaim to loveth Tolkien, yet understandeth, not his world view can neither hope to create a new film, show, or series of his secondary world." "Auta i lóme!" and" Aurë entuluva!"

@wiremumatenga883

Жыл бұрын

@@blaxpoitation8528 yeah man. The most faithful thing to the lore in this show is probably the spelling of the names, characters and places. Can't even get the characters features right. Bahaha Galadriel the short and hot headed 😂

@wallacewyatt4023

Жыл бұрын

ROP is not Tolkien. It's worse than fan fiction.

@NovRen19

Жыл бұрын

@@wallacewyatt4023 join us and raise Exsurge Tolkien the beacon of Tolkien Orthodoxy with us...a counter series ull love on our channel.

For this show to go anywhere, they'll have to fire everyone and start from scratch. There's no way to salvage this wreck.

I think that its not a question of evilness in the writting, but incompetence.

Remember that episode in which we saw a blurred glimpse of Adar for the last 3 seconds? I think we’ll see some 2 or 3 seconds of “blurry Sauron” in the last episode of this first season.

@PeloquinDavid

Жыл бұрын

I see I'm not the only one expecting to "see" Sauron/Anatar at the very end of the last episode of S01...

@FlyfishermanMike

Жыл бұрын

You'd think with their budget they'd have enough batteries around to finish filming.

@tobsw3802

Жыл бұрын

I come to you from the awful future to inform you that we've had plenty of Sauron screentime since Episode 1.

@TETASARAIVACS

Жыл бұрын

@@tobsw3802 😂

What I want to know is how these two nobodies, Bad Robot interns with no productions or writing credits to their names, got handed the keys to this gargantuan project? A phone call from JJ Abrams? Really? Or is it possible that the Tolkien estates (we're talking Simon here, right?) bargain for a "seat at the table" is more meaningful and controlling than it sounds like. And that they got to Simon and convinced him to give them the project? Flattery, blackmail, seduction... something. Anyway, they are obviously hacks, who're in way over their heads. I'd say the water is so far above their heads that they cant reach the surface and splash it around with their fingertips. The writing is atrocious. A lot of other aspects of the production falls short as well. Casting, direction, sets, costumes, choreography... Whoever was in charge over at Amazon should definitely be fired. Season two is filming, still in their hands. Ergo, it will not be good. So what remains to be seen is if Amazon kicks them from the show and tries to make some kind of soft reboot for season three, or if they cancel the whole project.

@joshpotter9261

Жыл бұрын

Simon doesn't have the same integrity or love of his Grandfather's work, they wouldn't have to do much to get the blessing from the new management.

@gwenallwood

Жыл бұрын

@@joshpotter9261 I think he just cares for the money. He was born rich for being his grandson, and he doesn't give an F about being truthful to Tolkien. It's totally different from Christopher Tolkien, who actually cared for his father's work.

At this point I hope we _haven’t_ seen Sauron…

Maybe Amazon is laundering money with this show?🤔

@onepunchmantolkienfan5383

Жыл бұрын

@@robsterinside cardboard would do a better job of hiding man boobs than the printed shirt they are wearing.😂

@zonefitzgerald

3 ай бұрын

Bingo! I wonder where ALL the one billion dollars worth of props were purchased from.

Take a look at these show runners filmography. The only real experience they have is the screenplay for Star Trek Beyond. Seriously? And they were given the reigns to a beloved multi billion dollar property? Mental.

@thunduh.5430

Жыл бұрын

And that "Trek" film barely resembled the original Star Trek. Its guys like this that wanted to play with your toys as a kid so they could break them, but thats the Bad Robot way....

The british newspaper got it right, watching rings of power is like eating rancid cat food.

@NovRen19

Жыл бұрын

We called this in Exsurge Tolkien, since 25 March, now its a full apostasy of power, Join us for our counter ROP series, the evidence is clear, and none can deny that "ROP" is not of Tolkien. Our EXSURGE TOLKIEN that makes robustly clear the heresy of the showrunner's mouths and hearts. They probably know nothing of Tolkien's masterpiece, as evident from their interview in the Vanity Fair Article. For "they who proclaim to loveth Tolkien, yet understandeth, not his world view can neither hope to create a new film, show, or series of his secondary world." "Auta i lóme!" and" Aurë entuluva!"

If we were still at the beginning of the season I’d be more likely to believe that it COULD get better, but we’re at the last two episodes which means the show has to improve by leaps and bounds by the finale to make the “it gets better by the end of the season” promise hold.

@Aurora2097

Жыл бұрын

Last episode was by far the best still. From 4 to 7 on it was the worst imho.

The article is just more words. They gave words before, the results show that the words were meaningless.This article is no different. Also, it's not a large scale show. It's a large budget show that has everyone wondering where the budget got spent. Seriously where is the "scale"? It certainly isn't in the show.

@Aurora2097

Жыл бұрын

Oh they said quite several interesting stiff... They just do not understand their own writing! They are too full,of themselves... that is a öroblem.

All they have to do is write well. If they are capable then fine. If not they should step aside.

I tried reading the article but it felt like a fluff piece. I will give them credit for apparently taking some criticism seriously as the Wheel of Time showrunner never did (publicly) after the first seasons criticism. But in the end they aren't good writers and the show isn't likely to get much better without replacing them.

@wallacewyatt4023

Жыл бұрын

Agreed.

Nice review! Seemed a little too kind to gloss over the fascism and evil comments made in the article though TBH.

@braddishv3146

Жыл бұрын

They didn't just gloss over the comments buried in the article - the vile quotes by the writers is the title of the article itself! To ignore that is major mental gymnastics on Broken Sword's part. I understand they are trying to be positive, but to not even mention that in passing shows an incredible lack of character and self-awareness.

I think the release pacing you're proposing is what the BBC did for the Sherlock series with Benedict Cumberbatch. That did work out well for them

@eddiemango

Жыл бұрын

Oh yeah, that show defo didn’t go down hill in the final seasons

@ConchienceClothing

Жыл бұрын

I actually liked him as Sherlock but it did get weird

It being a labor of love is completely irrelevant.

All I need to say, is look at these guys’ IMDB pages… THIS is who Amazon gave a billion dollars to.

If this show is a labor of love for them I would hate to see what they would do to a piece of literature they disliked.

@inspacenoonecanhearyoustre2930

Жыл бұрын

Damn right. Couldn’t of said it better myself. If these are Tolkien fans then I’m a fan of metal spikes up my arse🎉

@Jmike12345

Жыл бұрын

Tainted love….the series…😂

None of the criticism says, "This is a cash grab." The criticism says that the showrunners are poor writers and they need to stop injecting identity politics into their stories.

What annoys me about Rings of power is why do we have to suffer so much pointless rubbish for something that has so much story to tell. 6-7hrs of watch time for it to start getting interesting where in that time I could watch two awesome lord of the rings movies.

@Aurora2097

Жыл бұрын

Agree. Cut it different it it gets you some decent 2 hour film!

The only way this show could get worse is if Halbrand isn't Sauron. The amount of intentional misdirection and blatantly obvious red herrings would be unbelievably stupid and insulting.

I’m really hoping they take fan’s feedback seriously and adjust the following seasons based on that

@arielzajac

Жыл бұрын

i'm hoping they cancel the whole thing

@Ilkvomit

Жыл бұрын

Nah you can't listen to whiney fan boys

@justindevoe9556

Жыл бұрын

I hope not, historically that always makes things worse

@Rdude4444

Жыл бұрын

They should cancel the show

@mikem9001

Жыл бұрын

@@Ilkvomit That is a good point - the whiney fan boys who defend ROP are not worth listening to!

Complete start over without the current showrunners.

@kents.2866

Жыл бұрын

Right? And the writers, also the fight choreography people need to be replaced.

@mikem9001

Жыл бұрын

@@kents.2866 And please get some real armour, learn which direction the sun rises, and actually READ some Tolkien!

In letter 348 Tolkien states that in Sindarin “Galadriel” means “maiden crowned with gleaming hair” and that the name was a secondary one given to her in her youth when she was then of ‘Amazonian disposition’ and ‘ bound up her hair in a crown when taking part in athletic feats’. Tolkien elsewhere noted that Galadriel was unusually tall and possessed of a proud nature. So the “Amazon” part may not have the warrior meaning that some would impart. It could of course. But it could also just mean that Galadriel was a strong willed young female elf who enjoyed physical exercise in the first age. In the start of the second she was already 1500 or 5000 years old married to Celeborn and living in Lindon.

@himynameis3664

Жыл бұрын

I thought that during this time they are depicting her daughter was marrying Elrond. This Galadriel seems like the furthest thing from a mother, let alone the mother of someone old enough for marriage. She comes across like a petulant teenager at times... definetly not someone who has matured for 4000 years

@blaxpoitation8528

Жыл бұрын

@@himynameis3664 I don’t even think they’re going to introduce Celeborn on this show, which obviously means no Celebrian. At this point, she should’ve been married and had her daughter. Because ultimately, Celebrian marries Elrond. This is some weird variant of Galadriel. How is this the elf who befriended and learned from the Maia Melian?? Who refused to give Faenor a lock of her hair, because she was wary of his proud and haughty nature? This version of Galadriel seems like she would’ve LED the kinslaying. I won’t touch on Gil Galad right now…it’s just so horrendous what they’ve done to him.

@himynameis3664

Жыл бұрын

@@blaxpoitation8528 Oh for sure this Galadriel would be running the front lines of the kinslaying. They're already shooting season 2 and promising it's going to be so much better..this is what we get when people just accept the garbage they're being fed, not only accept it but stand behind and defend it. The "fans" that praised this show are the reason we'll have to hear about this hot mess for years to come and that has me really bummed out.

@Lfilpo

Жыл бұрын

@@blaxpoitation8528 she was present during the kingslaying… she actually hid the truth when she was asked in middle earth… I can tell you are probably a casual reader

@NovRen19

Жыл бұрын

Bravo and join us, The forest of Professor Tolkien is being burned before our eyes in the fires of corporations as our 5th installment defines: The power of the Rings is fading with each passing episode, as we all hear Treebeard's cry fused into the corporate machine theyocracy and their subordinates, "a wizard should know better." If you have lost heart or grown frustrated, join us for EXSURGE TOLKIEN as we continue to defend the counter perspective to this ROP heresy series with another installment, "Contempt the third Heresy." It is overwhelming that the showrunner's rather than desiring to respect Tolkien's Tales, yearned to be the 'lord and god' of their own "private sub-creation." Now is the hour for all phans to realize that this show does not glitter and is not gold, and return to the Valar, to the truth. "Auta i lóme!" and" Aurë entuluva."

What characters to fall in love with? Where are those good and lovable characters?

If I have to wait 2 years for the next season im done now.

@iwantgoals1566

Жыл бұрын

It’s not like they built up a great head of steam with the first season anyway. So waiting 2 yrs for the next season would pretty much kill this project stone dead. Would be a master stroke by Amazon though.

Ah yes, mentor JJ. The man who refused to make any movie these two hacks wrote when working for him. This just gets worse and worse

You can be more pacionate than anyone else in the world about something, but if you don't have the skills to show it, it is going to come out horrible when you try to espress it.

I have been cringing for the past 2 days after I downloaded this to watch it later. You have handled it delicately. The showrunners made a bunch of excuses and I don't see any, 😱🤯 payoff, in the finale. The show just hasn't been done well.

I have a question that maybe someone in this group can answer. The Showrunners keep referring to the deal with the Tolkien Estate. Now is this John R Tolkien and family or is it Simon (Falcoenbridge) Tolkien's Tolkien Estate Ltd? Yes I'm well aware that Simon's name appears in the credits. But was John's group Middle Earth Enterprises even consulted prior to Simon stepping in.

@mikem9001

Жыл бұрын

I have no idea, but your question is fascinating. It will be interesting to see if anyone can answer it!

How can they call this a labor of love while throwing what Tolkien did in the trash.

They remind me far too much of David Benioff and DB Weiss...which does not bode well.

@dburgd99

Жыл бұрын

To be fair at least we got a good 5 seasons from them. Why? Because they had a great story and characters to start with. So did Amazon, but with horrible results.

@grandadmiralzaarin4962

Жыл бұрын

@@dburgd99 we got three good seasons, a tolerable fourth but the last three were disasters, they just culminated in the abysmal mess of season eight, but the train went off the rails much, much earlier. The pilot itself was a complete fiasco that had to be completely redone last minute so the signs were there from the very start. I feel these showrunners, who got their positions through nepotism rather than credentials or ability are the second coming of such folly.

@jmill1334

Жыл бұрын

At least they could mostly follow source material. They couldn't handle the jump off point from when they lost the source material and then basically wanted out to go do Star Wars and phoned it in. So at least they could follow material. I think this show would kill to have those guys because thats what most fans want is some sort of truth to the source material, which the current show is completely absent of. But yeah, they're not exactly high on my list if they do replace the showrunners (which they should have done already)

Still I don't understand how they can save what they ruined with season 2, 3 or ever??? The best way to save the world is to stop. Make like the company did with the first animated Lord of the Rings ... never finish ... And make something totally different with a new set of writer and directors ...

@joshramirez7

Жыл бұрын

It's a massive success, why would they stop?

@mikem9001

Жыл бұрын

@@joshramirez7 Its a massive success according to Amazon's paid propaganda. The way they cringe and lash out at criticism indicates differently, however.

@jkhristian9603

Жыл бұрын

@@mikem9001 Until people stop watching its going to keep going.

@mikem9001

Жыл бұрын

@@jkhristian9603 No show ever gets zero watchers so I am not sure what your point is?

@jkhristian9603

Жыл бұрын

@@mikem9001 my point is as long as many people are watching it it’s going to continue. Even people that hate the show are watching it, which adds to the viewership.

While I don't care for 2 years between seasons, I would completely lose interest if it was 3 months between episodes. I much prefer to binge TV shows because I forget what happens with long gaps. I find shows that release week to week and then have a 8-month gap to be extremely frustrating. I have to go back and rewatch previous seasons because I don't remember what happened. This is just me personally, but I prefer to binge.

I took offence to the article labeling any fans who were unhappy and subsequently voiced their opinions openly as, "Trolls".

I'd love to see real quality writers put out a script and/or story boards for how they would've done it.

What were Amazon thinking, they should of just hired you two professionals

@Linska495th

Жыл бұрын

@@robsterinside sorry English not my first language I only arrive on boat across channel last week.

I have tried so hard to like the show. Unfortunately for me, the atrocious dialog and rather weak story telling that is filled with questionable creative decisions keep taking me out of it. I have had a hard time wrapping my head around one burning question. How can something so expensive... feel so cheap?

@gwenallwood

Жыл бұрын

Same! Literally same.

I honestly tried to give the show a fair chance. In the end they bungled it so badly it was painful to watch.

This series disappoints on too many levels. I tried to stay positive until I watched it. But with every episode I felt more disappointed so far.

That quote from 2001 about it being politically charged came out before the movie was even released. So it was not really a criticism of the movie and just a pure negative comment as he felt Jackson would not stick to the books.

When JD and Patrick worked for Bad Robot, none of their films got made. Which tells me they were such bad writers that not even JJ wanted to make their films. So then he sends them over to a competing studio. Could it be 4D chess to tank Amazon Studios?

@madmartigan8119

Жыл бұрын

They worked for 10YEARS with none of there projects getting made

@finalgirl640

Жыл бұрын

BINGO! yep! How did they get this job???

@finalgirl640

Жыл бұрын

@@madmartigan8119 omg you're the greatest swordsman who ever lived. It's an honor. 🙃😉

It's funny to see the Tolkien fan base having to deal with what us Star Wars fans are pretty much accustomed to. I've learned to just sit back relax and ride with the wind

@mikem9001

Жыл бұрын

Tolkien fan base is much bigger, and has more consistent source material written by one person.

@Ilkvomit

Жыл бұрын

@@mikem9001 yeah and I thought they were also classier but I guess I was wrong

@mikem9001

Жыл бұрын

@@Ilkvomit How are they not "classy"?

16:55 new ads claims we will see sauron tonight.

Saying that S2 is going to be amazing is about as empty of a promise as I can think of unless you see writers fired, rewrites of a script i'm guessing is already done, etc. These writers are garbage and they aren't magically going to become excellent next season. They're practically begging people to stick around and we all know why: It's the most expensive TV show ever made. It's likely already a failure given their attacks on core fans of Tolkien and more or less admitting that S1 sucks. They're desperate already for views and i'm guessing this show gets cancelled after season 2. Also, gotta add that the absolute dilusion that they showcase by trying to think their show is going to be a classic in 10+ years is wild. Like, truly astounding. Idk how these guys have gained this sense of confidence given a decade of getting their films shot down by a bottom of the barrel studio in bad robot, but i'm guessing maybe its failing like that for that long only to fail upwards into the most expensive TV show of all time..

I know this is something that maybe could never have happened. But you know who they should’ve brought in as creators of this series? Fran Walsh and Phillipa Boyens. You know, the two who wrote the screenplay for the LOTR trilogy. I can dream at least!!

@melrobertson2743

Жыл бұрын

And not ignore PJ's offer to consult in the script OR FIRE TOM SHIPPEY

If it isn’t Tolkien Lore and the writing is lousy, than how is it going to “pay off” in the rewatch?

Following the trend over recent years, my prediction is that they blamed all the backlash on bigots and not on the piss poor quality writing.

@abelbabel8484

Жыл бұрын

Precisely what they did.

@SakeBlossom

Жыл бұрын

Or both?

Make a crap product and then blame people for not watching , what a joke. If they stuck to the source material it would have been a layup , instead they wanted to deliver the “message” and push woke bs . Plays stupid games win stupid prizes .

Not sure how it can be a labour of love, if they haven’t followed the story and have pretty much made all the known and established characters stupid or unlikable. Every time Galadriel is on camera, I hide, as it’s pretty embarrassing, like watching someone make a fool of themselves on Britains Got Talent.

@braddishv3146

Жыл бұрын

Ha! Great analogy! And the viewers of the show acting as Simon Cowell, "Why are you here? You have no talent... I'm sorry dears." *in patronizing tone*

@jamief1263

Жыл бұрын

@@braddishv3146 let me tell you where I am ……. “I’m Out”.

Is anyone else getting strong Dessa is Sauron vibes? Hear me out...she detected the mythril. She was forging something in episode 7 and quite angry. She's really influencing Durin is suspicious ways and her advice is leading to the Balrog. Also those gold eyes... still long shot, but She's quickly moved from not a consideration to second behind Halbrand

@gwenallwood

Жыл бұрын

Honestly, yeah! The eyes are freaky. And it's very weird that she's pressuring him so much. She looked very power-hungry in this episode.

It feels like the show runners didn’t really answer the bigger issues. I don’t really care about dwarf wife beards 😅 14:00, but the difference is when the fellowship came out there wasn’t very many people who rated the experience poorly. We are halfway through s1 (more than half), there should be an element of attachment and it’s just not there, for me.

Appreciate the video boys. Been fun to watch you guys on this journey, whether the show is quality or not. 🤘🏻

@jojolafrite90

Жыл бұрын

Whether... It's abysmal.

I love this channel so much. I've introduced my 7 year old and 6 year old to your lore videos and they absolutely love them. I'm going to continue the tradition of nightly Tolkien with them like my parents did with me. 🥰

@andygrams6344

Жыл бұрын

I read Hobbit to the kids nightly and LOTR - then introduced the '81 BBC radio drama of LOTR which they still listen frequently to this day, then showed them '77 animated Hobbit by Bass/Rankin, then '78 LOTR by Bakshi, then '80 ROTK by Bass/Rankin, then had them go through the unabridged LOTR audiobook twice before letting them see Jackson's LOTR extended. (of which they were immensely disappointed by Jackson's interpretation of theme/story/characters). Now taking them through Silmarillion audio book while keeping the Atlas of Middle Earth open by Fonstad, for clarity.

@finalgirl640

Жыл бұрын

@@andygrams6344 my favorite thing from The Hobbit '77 is the Misty Mountains song. It just captures the feeeling so well. It had a better understanding of Tolkein than modern adaptations! I remember watching the LOTR cartoon with my dad and thinking rodoscoping looked so weird at the time. Have you heard the Nicole Williamson narration of The Hobbit? It's amazing and I also have a ton of Middle Earth music I wrote on dulcimer. I gotta upload to my channel finally. 😄

I was unconvinced by the article because I'm still hungering for book lore. Copyrights aside, an explanation as to why so much of the show is "made-up" and not more recognizeable as an adaptation of Tolkien's story would be appreciated.

@jasonito23

Жыл бұрын

The book lore is in the books not on TV. Read the two volumes of Kalevala and the Icelandic Sagas. Amazon can´t do Tolkien´s story because the Tolkien estate was horrified by Peter Jackson´s trilogies that they vowed to never sell any more rights of Tolkien´s work. Christopher Tolkien did not like Peter Jackson´s films at all. If Amazon went ahead and did Tolkien´s story they´d get sued and lose. There are tons of articles about this. They can only use some of the LOTR material and make a show where the characters are based of Tolkien´s work. They are forbidden to remake Tolkien´s stories to film.

@badgerpatt

Жыл бұрын

@@jasonito23 Thanks! I think my issue is more a question of why this incredibly expensive show isn't written better and the "adapted for TV" Tolkien material isn't more recognizable, not necessarily word for word from the book. I think in your reference to Scandinavian literature you're alluding to "The Northman," which I would consider a compelling adaptation. My point is, the writer's are not succeeding at adapting Tolkien's story to film because they have not yet told a compelling enough story that feels, not just looks like Tolkien's World.

@jasonito23

Жыл бұрын

@@badgerpatt I never watched ¨The Northman.¨ I´ve read Tolkien and from there I started to read the books and literature which have the characters and stories that Tolkien put in his stories. Once I did that and saw that most of his themes, characters, names etc. were not original. He never claimed that they were. So, I started to realize that all of these stories and adaptations are not supposed to be analyzed so deeply and these changes from the ¨original lore¨ had already been done. The Eagles, Gollum, The Ring, Dwarves, treasures and dragons, all of it were written about centuries before Tolkien. And many of the ´original´ stories were epic poems literally created to be changed by each and every storyteller and poet. I like the scenes, the costumes, orcs, Elves, Hobbits, Dwarves and the fight scenes. All of the connections to the lore, history, who Galadriel is supposed to be married to, her age....lol that´s too much for me to really invest time into in rating a series I just want to enjoy. And I just want to throw in that I read the Silmarillion twice, and it doesn´t rank into my list of very good books to read. (That was what Amazon wanted the rights to originally)

@mikem9001

Жыл бұрын

@@jasonito23 "Amazon can´t do Tolkien´s story because ..." Rubbish. Lack of rights did not force Amazon into any of the weird things they have done with Tolkien's work. All it did was deprive them of the right to use a few names. They still could have kept the character of Galadriel, Elendil, Isildur etc consistent with Tolkien's work. Their lack of respect for Tolkien's work (as opposed to e.g. Jackson's LOTR movies) is palpable. "They are forbidden to remake Tolkien´s stories to film." Again, this is plain wrong - nothing has forced them into the mess that they have created.

@mikem9001

Жыл бұрын

@@jasonito23 "Christopher Tolkien did not like Peter Jackson´s films at all." Decisions are not being made by Christopher Tolkien, but if he were alive today, he would realise that it is possible to sink far, far lower than Peter Jackson's movies, which look quite good by comparison, and definitely far more respectful to Tolkien's world and values.

It is unforgivable that they portray one of the most powerful and wisest elves who is 9000+ years old as an impetuous teenage brat prone to being fooled by Sauron when in the writings she is on of those who did not trust his phony gifts or character. If you need character flaws to build upon, Tolkien provides plenty, why defame Galadriel. Her power in war was more akin to her mentor Melian and her girdle. Making her a sword swinging myopic cartoon character is horrid. The writing, acting and casting are all sophomoric compared to LOTR which had its own issues but those were understandable for the purposes of tying a feature film together.

They couldn’t do the spaced episodic movies because it would restrict the primary actors from taking on other potential lucrative projects on.

No one will be cult following this show 20 years from now, it will be like Merlin forgetting Morgana. We will all just walk way and forget it at best it will be a bad dream.

I saw this weeks episode, and does feel like the brakes got slammed compared to last weeks moving train. However, I also can’t believe that next week is the final episode also, feels like the show has barely got started and going.

On the topic of films being so much better, I’m taking my wife to see The Rocky Horror Picture show live for her first time on the 28th!

I’m sorry I’ve already had a rant but please please please guys don’t settle for their man focus being they wanted us all the question who Sauron is then they have a gotcha moment at the end. Is that the LOTR show you wanted 10 years ago? Like I don’t know if there was a single person in the world who said to themselves “gosh I love LOTR I really hope one day they make a tv show that is a soap opera and their main focus is wasting time on who is really who”

Payne and McKay lie and claim that the dog ate their homework, get out their tiny violin while exposing their delusions of grandeur, then smash said violin in our faces, saying "you're all evil, how can you criticize our work?" Get bent.

One thing that is certain is that I have not fallen in love with any character whatsoever. They have quite the uphill struggle to regain trust as of now.

@FlyfishermanMike

Жыл бұрын

I don't know, that white horse is pretty cool.

lets face it it just sounds like they dont think they did bad and are just pr ing there way out of the suger honey ice tea , this show seems to be bad dodgy writting and some really dodgy set peices and saying that it will all pay off is a sign of bad writting and they really need to break away from the mystry box style of writting as it really dosnt lend to a good show

Really, they just need less erratic scripts. They do very well in spots but overall, it’s lazy and trite. PS I’m really enjoying the input, honesty and observations you both have been bringing. Yeah, this project is probably far too big for these two newbie show runners.

The producers sound incredible naive. They clearly live in a different reality.

@Aurora2097

Жыл бұрын

I agree. They are not woke or into any secret agenda or anything... They are just aloof naive fanboys who have a too high opinion on their skills and understanding of the material while they seriously lack both.

Y’all criticizing the JJ Abrams call… they’re just talking about how they got credit in the Hollywood system. That’s how it worked. Peter Jackson had to do similar Hollywood machinations.

Well now, it's obviously not a cash-grab. If it was a cash-grab they would have made it good.

Showrunners should end their search for "evil" in the mirror.

@Janthdanl

Жыл бұрын

What makes them evil? They made a show you don’t like so they are evil?

@RagingHeat98

Жыл бұрын

Cringe, just like the show

@elidasilva5558

Жыл бұрын

Nice

@MBirdman

Жыл бұрын

@@Janthdanl wake up. They said critics are evil and the quote I used is a line from their own show.

@Janthdanl

Жыл бұрын

@@MBirdman no they did not lol you know who they called evil? The weirdos who threaten people and say horrible things to people over a fucking fantasy show.

I still don't get it. Have showrunners at least seen Tolkien's books? And if so, why is there not the slightest correlation? I mean, with the exception of misused names?

They invested too much money to completely cancel the second season. I think you'll see some hirings and firings, so they can get a fresh eye on things.

They have created a show which seems small and cheap ... and how dare they call me a hater.. These two should not be allowed to write a shopping list

As lazy reply from showrunners as is the writing in the show.

Paying homage to Bad Reboot and JJ Abrams as the one who got them the job definitely makes me lose any possible hope that this will have to become something even remotely comparable to a Tolkien work. Referring to Simon Tolkien as though he were the torch bearer when there was a known feud between him and his father about the direction of the Estate is almost laughable. Considering the Estate still hasn't released the rights to the work Christopher did to publish his father's notes on the prior ages to these buffoons, I don't imagine the 2nd age they envision will have much to do with JRR's work, sorry.

I do believe it’s getting slightly better, but it’s still poor. The actress playing Galadriel is surely reading her script like “what the F”

@WMfin

Жыл бұрын

In last episode those annoying characters died so it is getting better!

@jasonito23

Жыл бұрын

I like the show, but I must say, I don´t think they picked the right actor for Galadriel. She is clearly outshined by every other actor in the show.

@peyerfare5185

Жыл бұрын

Hope Adar survives, actually enjoying him.

Saw it coming before it came out that it wasn't going to be good....was turned off by the way they were already blaming fans when they didn't like what they saw in the trailers and even the actors acting they were saving the world from the big bad Tolkien....... Bad Reboot(ahem) i mean Bad Robot and all their hacks saying they would honor Tolkien whiling saying that more or less "this is the story that Tolkien would have wrote we just would do it better" Man they love Tolkien so much and want to honor him that they changed it....to subvert expectations while making it more of today with allegories....something Tolkien didn't like. If you have hope for this garbage then be prepared to be disappointed....they lied to you before this thing came out and now they are lying to you again for the future. They only had the appendices to go off of...which means alot of the characters are made up and they had to fill in the gaps...they could make it what ever they wanted and your seeing it play out before your eyes....to me real readers of Tolkien and know the lore are panning this series. im surprised you guys are not pointing out the discrepancies in the show comparing it to the actual lore you go over in your videos....instead of hoping the show gets better.

Two years is a too long wait , I think that most casual viewers and general audience will forget the show . If they want to preserve the hype they definitely should release one or two episodes at a much shorter intervals

At this point Amazon should just prank call Peter Jackson again about a job and just admit to being the massive troll they are.

A huge issue with releasing an episode every 3 months is filming continuity. If episode 1 takes place in spring then episode 2 would have to shoot their outdoor locations during the summer etc etc. If you do a straight 18 month shoot you have a large portion of time to shoot one set and have a high degree of continuity, then change location for the next couple of months.

@mikem9001

Жыл бұрын

Seriously dude... You are talking about producers who switch the direction of the sun around 180 degrees in the space of 5 minutes, and flash randomly from night to day and back again, in the middle of a battle. Why would they care about something like season continuity? 😂😂😂

@gwenallwood

Жыл бұрын

@@mikem9001 Dude! I'd forgotten about that. Probably blocked it out... XD Didn't they do similar things in previous episodes as well? Although it wasn't THAT obvious as in this battle scene. It's nuts.

2 years between seasons is too much but the every 3 months is what to long, hate the idea.

If they wait 2 more years for season 2, there will be a MASSIVE die-off in interest. What a huge mistake if the end up doing that.

@addex1236

Жыл бұрын

I mean the show is shit made by and funded by had people so why do you care

they lost me at episode 5. 5 hours into it and I did not care about any characters

I thought they would have season two filmed by now now we’re gonna have to wait forever for season two not appealing nowadays when we get new shows all the time

@johnnyll91

Жыл бұрын

To be fair with season 1 being the mess its been them actualy geting feedback before being done with s2 might be a good thing

@kreestuh4367

Жыл бұрын

They've already started production on Season 2 though, so the writing portion must be done. They won't have time to fix it now, unless they delay.

@johnnyll91

Жыл бұрын

@@kreestuh4367 unlucky

lol, I'll be honest in 2001 I didn't know Anything about LotR or any of Tolkien's work, it was the PJ films that brought me into the light, I loved the films and after watching T2T I remember asking my sister "who's Smegul refering to as She or who's this Her" (refering to the Shelob hint) then that was it.. I had to read ALL the books. 21 years later, and 1000s of hours reading the hobbit & the LotRs to the Silmarillion and children of Hurin, I'm loving the whole world that's being created. this RoP show, I'm enjoying their interpretation, and I can grasp the fact, it's not going to be 100% accurate, but I wouldn't say it's absolute garbage, it's certainly not as bad as Lost or a few other TV adaptations I could mention, but it's good enough for me and keeps me in middle earth, so I'll be waiting for season 2 to air, even if it takes 2 years lol. btw keep up the good work fella's. you help me pass these extremely long nights working a really boring shift hehe. á na márië 😇

@mikem9001

Жыл бұрын

Its not just that its not accurate, but that it turns Tolkien's world and morality on its head. For example, ROP "Galadriel" is shown as a petulant, selfish, vengeful, evil person, the opposite of Tolkien's Galadriel. This turns his whole world inside-out. Galadriel was his key "good" figure, and his definition of "good' rejected all the things that ROP "Galadriel" displays. Whatever this show is, it is not Tolkien or "Lord of the Rings".

@Ilkvomit

Жыл бұрын

Wow this is the most level-headed comment I've ever read on this channel concerning this show. I'm exactly in the same position as you and agree with your statement 100%

We have to wait 2 years in between seasons? It’s going to take nearly a decade to see the end of this show.

@DannyJane.

Жыл бұрын

What series doesn't do that?

@nikolajwinther5955

Жыл бұрын

@@DannyJane. the best ones.

@grahamsimpson9086

Жыл бұрын

But isn't the likes of The Witcher the same timeframe? It's taken around 1-2 years for each season, Season 4 won't be out till next year either lol

Two years between seasons is a pretty bad model for a "tv show". Maybe if it was so extremely good people would rewatch the old seasons multiple times as they wait for the new one, but who is gonna do that with RoP? People (myself included) can barely get through the first few episodes.... A show like Yellowstone, or Better Call Saul I've rewatched everything over again starting a couple months before the new season to 'prepare'. And I rewatch diligently despite knowing every scene with their nuances already. RoP though? I stopped watching after episode 2 and was on instagram to keep myself awake during it.

You missed what I thought was the most important bit: _“The entire making of this show has been a massive learning experience for everyone involved. We had no idea what we were getting into. No one else did, either.”_

@TheBlackAdder1964

Жыл бұрын

Why would anybody admit this!?! They may as well have just hired some chap of the street LMAO

@finalgirl640

Жыл бұрын

And also the part where all their screenplays for movies got rejected? And they never should have been given this job to begin with?? And it's not just the writers? It's the whole fucking thing including the blatant purposeful DISRESPECT of Tolkien. They called fans evil. That's the most important part. Fuck everything else these two fetuses say. Instead of admitting they did a shit job they attacked the audience. Real good.

@TheLyricalCleric

Жыл бұрын

This is absolutely the most heartbreaking bit about the interview for me. Streaming shows these days are being pumped out with such regularity that the shows don’t hire seasoned writers anymore and instead expect untrained or first-time directors to also be whole writers’ rooms, alongside being production managers and directors and whatever else needs doing. TV shows like The Wire and The Sopranos lived and died in the writers’ rooms, where teams of 10-20 year veterans of different tv shows came up with complex nuanced plots with character motivations and stories that mattered. Nowadays the budget and spectacle takes center stage, so it doesn’t matter to the suits what the story is. “Story? What are we, Mad Men? This is schlocky fantasy BS, they say, little elves and dwarves and sword fights. Just make it up and the fans will lap it up if we give them a spectacle. Blow something up, show a Balrog or two.” The writing of RoP has all the hallmarks of writers who have never written a TV show before-what is Galadriel’s motivation? To hunt Sauron? Then what? Sauron is an antagonist, not a motivation. Take John Rambo in First Blood-he was a broken man who was pushed too far by busybodies and he went crazy and used his military training as he should never have. The cops would be writing traffic tickets if Rambo had never come into their town; Rambo would have kept moving. But their conflict pushes both an unstoppable force and an immovable object together with disastrous results. If Galadriel found Sauron in a hole and executed him, would that solve her anger issue? If she killed every orc baby in Arda like she threatened to do in the last episode, would she be fulfilled? She’d be a monster and not a protagonist. Do the writers know that they have written their main character as a villain when Sauron is supposed to be the villain? Are they trying to make her John Rambo, elf version? Because in the original draft of First Blood, Rambo kills himself. The character wasn’t killed off so that the studio could make schlocky sequels with musclebound Stallone blowing away hordes of unremarkable baddies. Is that what they want? Do they even know what they want?

@jordanmince7613

Жыл бұрын

wait what

@Gokkee

Жыл бұрын

But they love middle-earth remember 😆

I LOVE middle-earth but I could not care to watch this show. Will def watch house of the dragon though, that looks really good.

@iwantgoals1566

Жыл бұрын

Oh man HOTD is crushing ROP so badly that I’ve even started reading Fire and Blood by RR Martin. The quality from GoT really carries over. I know HBO wanted to tread old ground by telling stories from War of the Ring but in hindsight, Tolkien estate turning them down might be a mistake. How they’ve done with HOTD and 7 seasons of GoT is proof that they can’t be as bad as ROP show runners at least. I know the nudity etc might be a concern for all us Tolkien fans but they could stop that by limiting the show to 16+ and not injecting the show with their own politics. Almost everything that’s been included in HOTD has come straight from the source material so the nihilistic/realistic tone that has been set was set by the author himself. I don’t see many book fans complaining about a departure from the spirit of the book series.

The saddest part of all of this, despite any lip service, nothing will change. We have a problem with the entertainment industry where major studios are owned by multi-billion dollar corporations who do not consider income from films and shows significant. We're in the era of "catalog building," where trash is green lit simply so it piles into their IP library. I think studios have more and more often been taking an intentionally antagonistic attitude towards the fans, especially the fans of whatever their work is derived from. It's an increasingly cynical industry full of unchecked ego, and it's really disappointing considering the magic technology *could* produce if the hands of passionate people who see fans as something to be valued rather than an adversary. Rapid inflation hasn't helped either, losing tens or millions or even hundreds of millions of dollars seems to have produced this strange cognitive dissonance where executive and creative lead's self assuredness outweigh any rational metrics, and the losses are easily dismissed as irrelevant. I mean, what's 20 million dollars in the world today to corporations whose headlines typically deal in numbers well into the billions? The sky isn't up anymore, and nothing makes sense. Until western economies have a *massive* correction, this type of foolish behavior where things like the aforementioned antagonizing of fan bases in the name of projects trending on Twitter for 2 weeks after launch before fading into oblivion will persist.

You guys should apply to work on the show with Amazon!!