Brilliant video, as always! However, I have a smal error to point out: Diesel engines, and, in consequence, locomotives, where not developed far enough, and thus not common during WWI. All resources I have always talk of *petrol* locomotives, when it comes to internal combustion. There even where petrol-electric ones made for the trenches!

@JohnDavies-cn3ro

7 ай бұрын

Several of the Simplex petrol engines were in fact armoured; one was sold to the Ffestiniog in the 1920s, who may still have it.

@theromanorder

7 ай бұрын

Im almost surprised there was diesel trains in ww1 Idk why i am as im sure ive heard it somewhere but still

@DukeOfTrains

7 ай бұрын

​@@theromanordernot diesels Gas locomotives

@adamspencer3702

7 ай бұрын

I'm always impressed by the ability for Rail History fans to find obscure and interesting facts. Got any recommended reading on the topic?

@obelic71

7 ай бұрын

correct the petrol internal combustion engine was already availlabel in large numbers and evolved fast in WW1. Trucks, Tractors, Coaches, self propelled railway carriages, small shunters were all propelled by petrol engines. The 1910/20's was purly a petrol ICE time period on the road, rails and in the air. This short petrol timeperiod is often overlooked. The Diesel engine reached that viable stage only at the early 1930's.(after the 1929 financial krach) They were at first more expensive, heavier and bigger to build then petrol engines. In WW1 they were mostly used as submarine engines. WW1 mass production techniques made smaller lighter cheaper and reliabel Diesel engines later posible. The effiency and cheap diesel oil came in handy during the dire times of the great recession. All road and rail vehicels who had petrol ICE engines were converted to Diesel engines in the 1930's.

moving at the rate of a slight jog is not fast, until you realise that it's hundred of kilos of ammo, rations, medical supplies, tools and parts, and all other sundry supplies. At that point being able to move it all at the rate of a slight jog when the alternative is having a whole bunch of guys carry it at a slow walk is a massive improvement.

@flamingchuucygnet8983

7 ай бұрын

not to mention it is at a CONSISTENT slight jog. A human carrying 10-20kg of items could barely keep up jogging for 5 mins without wanting to collapse.

@ace74909

7 ай бұрын

​@@flamingchuucygnet8983my classmates would like to say otherwise

@Tiekorolivier

7 ай бұрын

Not hundreds, thousands ! A simple "plate-forme Péchot" can transport up to 8t !

@lordsrednuas

7 ай бұрын

@@Tiekorolivier I meant more, hundreds of kilos of each of the different supplies. But yeah, I didn't word it very clearly, that's on me.

@geemcspankinson

6 ай бұрын

​@@flamingchuucygnet8983The army would like to have a word with you

Fun fact, on a episode of the salvage squad, they restored a ww1 diesel locomotive, and now it runs on a preserved World War 1 narrow gage railway in France.

@krakenpots5693

7 ай бұрын

Huh! A fellow squadie! Nice to see you here! Do you reckon Tot will cover the blackpool trams one day?

@jacobramsey7624

6 ай бұрын

@krakenpots5693 I don't know. I haven't seen any of their episodes since before covid. Also, the last episode I watched was on the garage truck/lorey. I would be interested in seeing more or their episodes, though, if they are still being filmed.

@krakenpots5693

6 ай бұрын

@@jacobramsey7624 I meant Train of thought. Salvage squad restored one of the blackpool trams before (the only surviving single-decker tram), and seeing as they're rail vehicles, I thought Train of though might cover it... Salvage squad has been off the air since 2006, when the last member left. I think Suggz himself left before the end... quite a shame!

You probably didn't know this, in 1915 Austria-Hungary built a gas-electric field railway that ran along the roads through two narrow mountain passes from within the Carpathian Basin to what is now Moldova. In some places this route, layed on the road using judging by photograps a gauge of ~760mm, climbed over gradients of 7%. This same route was later used in 1916 to evacuate disassembled standard gauge steam locomotives and other rolling stock during the Brusilov offensive.

@asteroidrules

7 ай бұрын

That gas-electric train was designed by Ferdinand Porsche, and would serve as the basis for his later work on electric drive vehicles.

@Einwetok

7 ай бұрын

@@asteroidrules Porsche: if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing!😁

@ROBERTN-ut2il

7 ай бұрын

@@Einwetok He was the mad scientist of der Panzerwaffe in the rematch 25 years later. All his electric drive vehicles were failures and not adopted.

@asteroidrules

7 ай бұрын

​@@EinwetokThe man had an obsession with developing the most complicated drivetrain he could.

@Einwetok

7 ай бұрын

@@asteroidrules He was parodied in a David Drake book for being overcomplicated. Can't deny the guy had talent and connections though.

"Pre-assembled sections of track that a soldier could handle" That explains why Stanley derailed so much.

@Xalerdane

7 ай бұрын

He also wasn’t re-gauged properly when sold to the Mid-Sodor Railway.

My local Zoo actually has a locomotive that ran on one of these lines on the Eastern Front, the OZRR’s ‘Riva’, the name it’s had since it was built in 1890. It was originally built by the Krauss Works in Linz, Austria for the Mori-Arco-Riva del Garda Railway in Italy. The railway was closed in 1915 when Italy joined WWI and it was sent to the Eastern Front. After the war it worked on an industrial railway in Stryj, Poland until being used in military service again during WWII. After WWII it ended up on the CFR’s (State Railways of Romania) Alba Julia-Zlatna Line until being sold to Plasser & Theurer in 1968. It still wears its CFR Number, 365-104. In 1974 they donated Riva to the Omaha Zoo, when it arrived it was overhauled in the Union Pacific’s Omaha Shops before entering service in 1976. (UP often helped the Zoo with their railroad, including building it and donating stuff from the Omaha Shops when they closed)

@Einwetok

7 ай бұрын

That's quite a sturdy frame, to last through that without falling apart, or getting to expensive to rebuild.

These little railways are fascinating. As is what happened to the stock afterwards. The ROD locos (including the POW) are also video worthy

I’m a model railroader and this was a very timely and informative video that I will use in making my small diorama project of a trench railway in WW1 France. Thank you for sharing this informative video!

@asteroidrules

7 ай бұрын

Same lol, I just picked up a trench locomotive model and have been working on 3D printing some depressed-center pechot flatcars with field guns on them.

@gregbowen617

7 ай бұрын

@@asteroidrules May I ask what scale and locomotive you got?

@asteroidrules

7 ай бұрын

@@gregbowen617 On30, Bachmann makes a model of the 2-6-2PT that was used by the US.

@AlwaysCensored-xp1be

5 ай бұрын

​@@asteroidrulesGot a 3D printer coming. Found out about Trench railways a few months ago, revived my modeltrain hobby.

The tracks being pre-fab segments and easy to re-lay kinda makes it a true scale train set. :P

My late grandfather would have been very familiar with these, as he was Royal Engineers, Railway Operating Division and was station in the Baie de Somme area for the first part of his war. The little Baldwin engines were rather top-heavy, tending to be rather unstable and tipping over very easily on the poor track. Several were sold to English narrow gauge lines after the war, the Ashover having five and the Glyn Valley and |Welsh Highland one each - indeed your photo is of the WHR engine. One, retrieved from India, is on display at Statfold Barn, and another has been returned to working order.

Several of the trench railways would continue their service through World War 2 as well. Many of the fortifications in France were designed around being supplied via narrow gauge rail. Interestingly enough, despite a large amount of the Entente's trench railway equipment being made in the US, there's almost no preserved examples in North America, this is both due to the heavy attrition rates and the fact that after the war there was no incentive to send the survivors back across the Atlantic. The only operational trench locomotive in the US today is a 2-6-2 pannier built by Davenport which was completed too late to be sent over.

@844SteamFan

7 ай бұрын

There is also the OZRR’s Riva, though it wasn’t built for military service.

@asteroidrules

7 ай бұрын

@@844SteamFan It also wasn't made in the US, or even an Entente nation at all, having been built in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Riva has easily the most confusing history of any locomotive I've seen, it changed hands so many times and traveled so far to get where it is.

@844SteamFan

7 ай бұрын

@@asteroidrules Yeah, it’s definitely got an interesting history.

@ianmarkham8824

7 ай бұрын

@@asteroidrules Most confusing history? Doubtful when Zaamurets was a thing, but you have peaked my curiosity.

@AlwaysCensored-xp1be

5 ай бұрын

There is one in the Australian War museum. Many made it down here to the sugar mills, regauged to 2 foot. There is still about 4000km of 2 ft gauge in Queensland.

If you're familiar with the incredible amount of ammunition fired off during some of these engagements, you understand what the positions could only be supplied by railway.

“Listen, bud. In the States, we don't care a dime for a few spills” - Stanley "Listen, dukie. who worries about a few spills" - Smudger

This wasn't new to WWI, however. Trench railways were pioneered during the American Civil War by the U.S. Military Railroad (USMRR) during the Siege of Petersburg in 1864-1865. It resulted in a 30-mile railroad with some 25 locomotives and a quarter-of-a-thousand pieces of rolling stock (as well as railroad-mounted artillery), supplying from the steamboat docks some 100,000 troops of the Union Army along some 40 miles of trenches. This, together with the mile-wide "no-mans-land" that resulted between the two lines far removed from the actual city, over nine months of bombardments, charges over-the-top, and undermining, have convinced many that it was one of the earliest instances of what we would recognize as modern trench warfare, as the "seige" was being conducted in a way very different from those at the start of the war. For half a century, however, it was dismissed as a brutal anomaly, rather than the shape of things to come.

@PaulfromChicago

7 ай бұрын

The same thing happened during the Crimean War. After the war, they took the track and put it into Palestine.

This is the perfect bite-sized video for Veteran's Day/Marine Corps Birthday! Anyone who has an interest in railways or WWI can talk for a long time about the trench railways, myself included and I absolutely love the narrow gauge stock from WWI. I have a book written by D. Bishop and K. Davies about Railways and War Before 1918 that gives many interesting and illustrations from rare photographs and descriptions of the narrow gauge and sometimes standard gauge stock used during WWI. A detail from that book that is a favorite of mine is that in addition to the American pannier tanks derailing was not always because of the poorly maintained track; sometimes if the tanks were too full from filling up with the river or pond water, the engines would tip over onto their sides from being off balanced from the weight and the sagging ground. There's a potential Mid-Sodor Stanley story there.

If those American steamers constantly derailing sounds familiar, that’s because one of them ended up on a little narrow gauge line called the Mid Sodor.

@wes1243

Ай бұрын

Good old Stan Lee

Fun fact about the Baldwin 10-12-Ds is that they were actually designed before the war for the Government Railways of Morroco! A total of 10 prewar locos were build, and later one they would then be adapted to war time use once the time came!

Armoured trains are the next logical step. Especially since we soon get a whole game centered around one, on wich the Czech Legion was making its way to the Pacific during the Russian Revolution. Actually, deserves several episodes.

@jameslawrie3807

7 ай бұрын

I've studied this, it's actually not a very happy story and the troops who got home felt they'd been cheated of a say in their state. They also threw the White Russian commanding general to the Bolsheviks who promptly shot him by a river and handed over the Omsk Far East treasury to the Americans for passage home, dooming the White cause. There were actually a few factions among them and they almost came to fighting at points. Probably a story best left untold.

@LukeVilent

7 ай бұрын

@@jameslawrie3807 Well, as said, the story will be covered in a game anyway, and since it's a gamification, you'd likely have, like, multiple choices. I am of an opinion that every story is to be remembered, lest we live in an illusory world of only those we like.

@Einwetok

7 ай бұрын

There's also a few zombie themed ones on Steam, and one in space. LOL

@LukeVilent

7 ай бұрын

@@Einwetok Yeah, but I rather mean historic ones. Like those British employed in Anglo-Boer wars, everyone in the Eastern Europe during the aftermath of WWI, and even sporadic usage by USSR during WWII (e.g. in the battle of Kursk).

@Einwetok

7 ай бұрын

@@LukeVilent Few then. There's a reconstruction of Europe one that includes trains. As far as those others, regardless of the theme, the meta is the same. Chaos, securing an escape from it, and the methods of doing that.

There was also the ones built by Davenport, they had 3 domes. They were called "Davenport trench locomotives"

Thanks for the straightforward and to-the-point, BS-free narration, which contrasts with the work of some of your colleagues in the present medium.

Thank you for making my video suggestion!

These are really cool! That's really getting me thinking. I've always wanted a miniature railroad around my farm and these things would be perfect!

Sir Topham hat made his first kill in 1918. It wouldn't be his last...

@asteroidrules

7 ай бұрын

Fun fact: Thomas was mistakenly listed as lost in combat.

Cheers for the good work as usual 🥂

Worth noting that Edward Thompson, future LNER CME was heavily involved with these trench railway which was a big influence on his later locomotives designed for the LNER

Love that I saw this video in my feed on Remembrance Day. I always love the videos (and trains lol) and this one was no exception. The timing was perfect. Lest we forget.

I like how the rails were basically just full-scale model train track.

@Tiekorolivier

7 ай бұрын

Nope. Only the "Murican" Pershing system is "designed" as "low scale big Train". French "Péchot-Bourdon", german DBF and british Clayton systems are genuinely designed for the true specificities of such a narrow gauge.

Man I always knew you would do a vid on these railways

That one guy who keep on asked for this video in the streams may finally rest in peace

I operate a 16 gauge (16" between rails) train at our little zoo. I'm told it is one of the last of this size. It looks like an old steam locomotive, but has a Daihatsu 3-cylinder in the tender, powering hydraulic drive in the engine. It pulls two custom-built cars.

I remember a teacher from school who told me about trains that went to the trenches. And sometimes they would even take up the tracks to prevent being damaged by enemy forces.

@Tiekorolivier

7 ай бұрын

600mm track wasn't really "In" the trenches, but at the immediate rear. What you could sometime found in the trenches was 400mm or 500mm track, which is lighter and was also used in the Séré de Rivière fortifications before Captain Péchot made french artillery adopted 600mm track in 1888.

Awdry based one of his characters on a trench railway locomotive

Little engines can do big things!

I needed this video like 3 months ago.

first lol Also I love that Stanley might have been a trench railway engine

@QLDrailfan798

7 ай бұрын

makes sense, I mean he was ordered from America by the W.D I assume.

@SteamLance

7 ай бұрын

@@QLDrailfan798 Yeah, the UK used the 10-12-D 4-6-0 design (probably because it was similar to the WD Hunslet 4-6-0Ts), whereas the US used the Baldwin & ALCO 2-6-2 locos

@QLDrailfan798

7 ай бұрын

@@SteamLance makes sense I guess.

@asteroidrules

7 ай бұрын

Meanwhile Rosie is literally a World War 2 veteran.

@QLDrailfan798

7 ай бұрын

@@asteroidrules OH GOD, she would be though lol.

From what I know , the Baldwin 10-12Ds were always rough riders , the Track only worsened the problem.

@isaiahvang144

7 ай бұрын

Take a look at Stanley the red Mid-Sodor Narrow Gauge engine from the Railway Series.

I like this video because I am going to do ww1 history in my GCSEs and I Like trains

Perfect for Rememberance weekend. Lest we forget

Fascinating information ToT, thanks for the upload.

Do the Crimean War. Fascinating railroad that.

Abbey Pumping Station in Leicester (its next door to the National Space Centre) has a recovered trench railway in its grounds complete with track, steam loco and carriages. They run it on event days and give rides. It has no suspension and the track is very crude so you get a real feel what what these were like.

I had heard of these railroads but I did not know much about them until this tutorial. Thanks for sharing this fascinating information.

Good video. Particularly interesting comments!

OoooH Yeah. The Trench Railways of WW1. A great history topic. Also, I have Thomas & Friends OC’s based off some of the Trench Railway Engines.

@Xalerdane

7 ай бұрын

One of the narrow-gauge engines is canonically an American-made WWI trench engine that was sold to the Mid-Sodor Railway after the war ended. Unfortunately for him, the mechanics failed to re-gauge him properly for standardized narrow-gauge rails, which caused him to derail constantly. Eventually the owners of the MSR had him ripped apart and converted into a generator behind the engine shed, where he remained even after the MSR closed.

Fun fact, 2 Baldwins were bought by the Bydgosko-Wyrzyskie Koleje Powiatowe, in English the Bydgoszcz-Wyrzyskie County Railways, in 1918. Serving until the 1950s, no photos were ever taken of them.

Wish they'd do a video game that covers making this happen, maybe a DLC with WW2 and armored trains.

Many of the little locos were armoured but conditions inside were awful.

@asteroidrules

7 ай бұрын

Cramped, loud, and full of soot and grime, but you had a ceiling over your head, a solid floor under your shoes, and a dang good heater to keep you warm and dry. Better conditions than you'd normally find on the western front.

The problem with WW1 is that both sides were so efficient that they couldn't beat each other, till the tanks and the americans came along

@jameslawrie3807

7 ай бұрын

Ahh . . . no, not really.

@aydendunaway8283

7 ай бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/Z6mE0aaHddGZeZM.html

@Slithermotion

7 ай бұрын

See the US had a huge influence on the outcome of WW2 no doubt. In WW1 they are a side note.

@Lillstisse661

7 ай бұрын

WW1 was not WW2

@toawing

7 ай бұрын

Tanks helped but weren't that dramatic, artillery tactics developed and played the bigger role alongside improved coordination with infantry. And the USA really wasn't too big a part of it, their entrance was too late to get many troops involved, I think it was more of a brigade then an army and lacked artillery. Plus there was the naval blockade strangling Germany, while the German attempts while a threat just didn't have the same level of effect.

There's apparently a davenport locomotive that was built for this service still in existence over here in america, it's been preserved and is now operational

Fascinating

cool

Thank you for identifying the 60cm light railways which are an absolute passion of mine. Might I suggest a little more research as you are not right on some details. I don't want to take anything away from you bringing this to the attention of the world at large but the War Department Light Railway (WDLR) is worthy of an in depth video. See 'The WDLR Album' and 'The WDLR Companion' both by Col. David Ronald and Roy Link, and 'The Railway Gazette - Special War Transportation Number'. These will give you the most information. Also 'Light Track from Arras' by T R Heritage, plus others.

i loved when i first heard about these in the trains of war episode of trains unlimited and have always been fascinated by the trench railways of WWI, such a simple yet effective solution.

Always fun

The old Luton Airport Bendy Buses are used to move soldiers & supplies to the front line in Ukraine & I'm hope the bendy buses come back to the UK in piece & we can preserve them.

Very interesting.

please be my teacher this is actually way more interesting than algebra

Those Baldwin engines are the basis of Stanley from the Duke the Lost Engine who comes off the rails as he wasn’t suitable for those tracks.

This is something i would probably do

I think we've discovered Fearless Freddy's backstory

You should research and\oer do a video about the Train Calalzo-Cortina-Valdobbiadene, that was built by AUSTRIA-hUNGARY's army from onse side and by the italian army for the other during World War 1 , of course with the scope of bombing each other. At the end of the war the two tracks were basically connected and a train service was up and running up until the winter olimpics of 1964 ... then it was dismantled and sold for scraps. the horror :(

Ammo and other essential supplies to the front line, this was carried out at night, unfortunately for steam locomotives, smoke from chimneys and their glowing fireboxes could be easily seen from a long way off, so putting the crews in grave danger of being shot at by snipers. Therefore hastening alternative and less conspicuous forms of traction, necessity is the mother of invention after all.

"Listen, bud! In the States, we don't care a dime for a few spills!"

in the zoo Pairi Daiza in Belgium they have a 600 mm railway around the park, two of their locomotives are 0-8-0 Henschell ones, now all painted in bright green and with shiny brass... they once were drab coloured and working in the trenches... they remained in belgium after the war and eventually ended up there...

4:16 an early 2000s television series called "Salvage squad" restored one the these petrol engines that was destined for the front lines and after the war ended up working in a waste disposal factory!

Had it not been wartime, it would have been so much fun to ride these meandering little trains through French villages and countryside.

@Tiekorolivier

7 ай бұрын

Such lines existed since the 1870s to the 1960s. But most used metre gauge tracks. After french artillery adopted 600mm track, il stated to be also used for local railways. A few line still exist nowdays.

How about the doomed Klondike Railroad?

Poppys 🤩!!!!

Mostly the sandy malcom Moore they used to use in australia at the sugar mills

I built a steam trench locomotive in Minecraft awhile back! Due to how Minecraft is however, it is a bit oversized.

Forget the troops, the engines are the real war heroes!

dystopian

Interesting video. I believe there is a American made possibly a Baldwin restored and operating in California Wine country.

I know understand why the west Flandres is covered in railway fence posts! If they blew up every tree, the railways are the only straight bit standig

Its a shame i cant buy these trains & track anymore

He rode roughly and often came off the rails. I warned him to be careful, but he took no notice.

Fun fact dreamworld Gold Coast Australia’s steam engine is a Baldwin locomotive

I have long thought trench railways would be an interesting subject for a model railway.

@Tiekorolivier

7 ай бұрын

There are a lot of such models.

Bassicly a train set

I wonder if anyone said it was like there model trains back home.

If the French and Germans both used 60cm, did the English & US use the same or 2ft?

@Tiekorolivier

7 ай бұрын

1'11"7/8, which makes 957mm and is perfectly combatible. 2' was used for local railways in british colonies. Even the numerous welsh narrow gauge railways use more 1'11"7/8 than 2', even if both are compatible.

I think they has gas powered locos too

3:20 Brigadelok!

Both Fort Dix, New Jersey and Fort Benning, Georgia had extensive 2 foot gauge railway systems installed using track, locomotives and rolling stock that had not yet been shipped to France. They lasted until after World War 2, so were hardly temporary. The Infantry School Museum has an example of the Baldwin 2-6-2T's on display. This video shows troops under instruction at Fort Benning. It is in the very early Forties as the trainees are still wearing the blue denim fatique uniform. kzread.info/dash/bejne/X3aI1tCce9G5ac4.html

1:43 Stanley?

Well what was the gauge?

@asteroidrules

7 ай бұрын

600mm, extremely narrow. The idea was it was compact enough that sections of prefab track could be carried by a single man.

Don't some of the Maginot forts have rail transport inside?

@ROBERTN-ut2il

7 ай бұрын

They did

@Tiekorolivier

7 ай бұрын

Not only insider and not only the old stuff. There were whole 600mm network at the rear of the forts to bring all supply from the normal gauge railways and the roads, with huge Multi gauge stations hidden in the woods.

@Einwetok

7 ай бұрын

@@Tiekorolivier Now that would make an awesome diorama.

Baldwin 10-12-d

They are not diesels you show they have petrol engnes there were some ran on Kerosene but you didn't show them. The Germans had some portable light railways amongst there military equipment pre war i beleive. Good pictures i had not seen most of them.

Why are there no movies about these trains.

Someone should send this vid to those in Ukraine. Having a mobile, light, modular and fast way to spread logistics around is something they could absolutely benefit.

Railroads Online WW1 Edition

So this was the real stanley.

MRE SHITS in the trenches.

nahh skarloey got deported

🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃😊👍

No, Victor Tanzig. This does not mean having Thomas fight on the front lines is “historically accurate”.

@asteroidrules

7 ай бұрын

Or is it? 0-6-0 side tank engines were commonly used as the basis for armored trains, and the original story of how Thomas was purchased by the NWR is he was mistakenly written off as "lost in war service."

@TheTrainTheoristOfficial

7 ай бұрын

It is historically accurate lol. The Middle Eastern 9F's, and the Front line Narrow Guage Engines.