There is a market for mobile standalone. I bought the MPC Live 2 because there wasn't a Push 3 yet. Making music from a single device everywhere around your house (and outside of it) and not being stuck to a computer or studio setup really is inspiring and liberating.

@City2x

Жыл бұрын

I hear you. But as an owner of a push 3 it's extremely overhyped. The push's interface is way too limited utilized 40% of the features of live. Complex maxforlive devices such as Opal and others will never ever work properly on push. Complex sequencer patches will ha e issues due to the small screen and limited physical ui. There's no support for external drives. Most stand alone devices have this or a really streamlined way of transferring files. MPE is extremely sensitive I've actually turned it off. Because after a while it starts to sound corny. It's also very very big. There are too many critical features from live that are missing at launch. Also as mentioned in this video. The battery sucks. If you have larger sets of 10 or more tracks mixed midi and audio battery slips down to 85 minutes to 1.5 hours. It' crashes and hangs ALL THE TIME. I've never used an elektron device.or any standalone device this unstable. It's comical how unstable it is. My 14 inch MacBook pro m1pl max.with live can run Pigments and other 3rd party plugins the push can't and never will. It's a let down. I'm kinda bummed with my push 3. Because to make the songs I really want to make I have to go back to my laptop. The audio interface also sucks. But that's another story.

@Drrolfski

Жыл бұрын

@@City2x I only have a Push 2 so I can't judge the Push 3. But when talking about making music on a mobile standalone device it is mostly about sketching out ideas, not about finishing a track. Fully arranging, mixing and mastering a track is what you typically do in your studio on a DAW. Push was never designed for arrangement view and that's perfectly fine when sketching out the elements of a track (clips) and the basic building blocks of a song structure (scenes). Incoming fixes and upgrades aside, it seems to me the Push 3 is doing what it is supposed to be doing, which is sketching out ideas in Session view in standalone. Although I do agree they need to fix the short battery life.

@City2x

Жыл бұрын

@@Drrolfski 2k is a lot of money to just sketch out track out. Ableton was a little disingenuous with their marketing of the device. It shouldnt have been released with all the bugs and half ass features or lack of features it has. I believe they'll fix some of these bugs later this fall. But I fear some of them may be related to the chioset they're using and may be difficult to squash. I suspect the chips the dev'd with may be slightly different that what shipped because a lot of these bugs elsewhere are Pri 1 showstoppers

@Drrolfski

Жыл бұрын

@@City2x Someone made a video the other day where he would buy all the parts that makes up for a Push 3 (audio interface, laptop, 4 times 4x4 MPE controller, midi controller that can do all the stuff a Push 3 can do) and he came to the conclusion that the Push 3 is not bad value. It also functions as an Ableton DAW controller so you can do more on it than just sketching in standalone. Does it need fixing? Undoubtedly. But that could be expected of what is basically a generation 1 product. Making dedicated midi controllers is one thing, going into the business of standalone mobile computing is another thing altogether.

@ImpulseGenerator

11 ай бұрын

I think it will be a matter of time for a device like the Push 3 standalone to become really popular. The technology needs to become more efficient and affordable. Maybe Ableton is smart to get in early

MPE was the main selling point for me. I got a Push 3, and the fun you can have with every individual pad is insane. Furthermore, the lay-out of the push 3 is more intuitive, buttons have symbols instead of words, and the jogwheel is an amazing addition as well. While you really make good points, I think the whole is more than the sum of its parts, at least for the controller-version.

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment! Did you upgrade from the Push 2?

@MrFrussel

Жыл бұрын

@@peabodyscientific2082 I did

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

@@MrFrussel Nice. I don't deny that MPE can be worth it, it looks very cool. I hope some of the improvements make it to the Push 2 though. Why not let us move through midi notes with the directional pads? Seems plausible.

@pleggli

Жыл бұрын

For me Push 3 is actually the first Push I have been really interested in getting because of the way MPE works and integrates seems great. I have had an linnstrument which on the surface has a lot of similarities but it never really clicked with me fully so I sold it.

@MrFrussel

Жыл бұрын

@@pleggli Never heard of Linnstrument. Those are reasonably priced, but the layout and small pads kind of put me of. A thing I really wish Push 3 had, is the ability to turn 4 pads into a bigger square, so you have more room to ' express' .

Best, honest (critical) and common sense PUSH 3 review I've watched. Thanks!!!

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Wow, thank you! I appreciate you checking it out and hope it was helpful.

As a former gear junkie, I've stayed with push 1 and have no need to pay more for little. i'd rather spend the time creating than learning new gear.

@allancerf9038

Жыл бұрын

Hardware is easier to learn than software; muscle memory, etc. That said - I totally agree with you dude. I still have my Push 1, and have the dough, but won't upgrade.

@DexterPiano

Жыл бұрын

How did you stop being a gear junkie ?

@5T45H

Жыл бұрын

Is not what you have but what you do with what you have.

@nth7485

Жыл бұрын

Entered rehab?

@andrij.demianczuk

11 ай бұрын

I totally get you. I’ve also kinda hit that gear wall too. I have so much stuff that adding to that pile is pointless. I’m exhausted and more interested in writing music and sample hunting than anything

A thoughtful review. Thank you!

Thank you for your honesty!!! I was waiting for the next Push to be released but now that I’m seeing it I’m having second thoughts about it as a keyboard player I’m just thinking about about getting a MPC style pad and call it a day!!!

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching the video, glad it was helpful. I suspect we will see more keyboards with various kinds of support for MPE in the next year, so it might be worth it to wait and see what comes out.

Excellent review - thanks for the perspective.

Thanks for the objectivity.. Helped a lot

Great breakdown ..I subscribed straight away 🙏🏾🙏🏾

Great video man, thanks ❤

Thank you for this much needed video

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

I hope it was helpful! Thank you for watching.

Thanks, this really put some things into perspective for me. I'm in the unfortunate position of having just bought a Push 2 Bundle just before they announced the Push 3, and just wanted an honest opinion of what I'm missing out on. It really doesn't seem like I'm missing out on all that much with the non-standalone version. However even the small details you mention have me wishing I'd waited! 🙈 My bundle is still boxed tho, so I'm hoping i can trade it in somewhere for the 3, as i doubt Ableton will allow me, now they have it discontinued... 🙄 Thanks again! 👍

Excellent video! Thanks for the honesty and well balanced review! It’s refreshing in a landscape where every KZread video feels like a marketing video rather than a true review video.

@untml

Жыл бұрын

yes so true he doesn't even have the unit :)

@bresk13

Жыл бұрын

feels like ? It just a big commercial nowdays

@untml

Жыл бұрын

@@bresk13 Don't confuse negativity and honesty, just because this video does not support ableton interests doesn't mean it's "honest". And you can't test something without truly testing it, I'm surprised there is a crowd for this kind of nonsense.

@whistletom

Жыл бұрын

@@untml This is what's mindblowing about this "review". He doesn't even have the unit in question and people "thanks for the honest review". Wtf?

Unrelated, love your ending. Feeling is mutual. Subbed before I got to the end due to your take on this. Well done!

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Really appreciate that, thank you!

THANK YOU for mentioning the feasibility of realistically busting out the $2000 laptop or instrument on the bus. Where I live, public transit has become one of the least practical places to work on music(like it ever was practical at all). People literally get away with much worse than stealing a laptop all the time, so the less attention you draw to yourself the better. I guess in the context of “why the battery in push 3”, I could see it still being beneficial as a failsafe if the unit gets unplugged during a show, for instance. But yeah, part of me wonders they’re banking on a bunch of “Content Creator/Influencers”™️ wanting to go make videos like “EPIC WATERFALL PUSH SESSION- PRODUCER GOES OFF GRID TO MAKE THIS FIRE BEAT (INSANE FINGER DRUMMING MUST WATCH) 🤯🔥🤩”

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

I think I've already seen that video! 😂

@allancerf9038

Жыл бұрын

LOL. You remark was insanely funny! Good job. Yeah, people 'literally' get away with killing others on buses - which is dunno - worse than having your Push 3 stolen.

I kind of like the idea of limiting myself to 8 inputs and stock plugins.I have a hardware-heavy setup, but keep getting lost in trillions of options whenever I sit at my computer and use Live.

@friedemannpruss856

Жыл бұрын

I also use hardware Synths a lot, but without arrangement view I would be lost. I like to record longer jams and pick the pieces I like. In session view you can cut out a piece of a clip and insert it at a different place. Maybe they'll add the arrangement view, but then cutting and so on will be tedious on the push I think

Super practical & very thoughtful

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! I really appreciate you checking out the video.

If you already own Live Suite, then it's an absolute no-brainer. IMO, the improved pads with awesome MPE tech, the dedicated MIDI capture button, audio interface, and the jogwheel alone are reason enough to upgrade from a P2. Nothing else can compare. For $1K, you're basically getting a Linnstrument (cost more than a P3), a modern MPC (also costs more), and Ableton in one package. That's insane value. That's not even taking into account how much better it'll get with updates down the line.

@allancerf9038

Жыл бұрын

Have you even tried it? It may be a no-brainer because you can return it. If you buy one - seriously write a review somewhere. Yes, I own a Push and Suite 11.

I really appreciate this very relevant criticism. I would love a Push 3, but it needs to be improved to be worth the price.

Thanks for this!

Very nice video, very good points, been thinking the same, you just confirmed it, cheers.

thanks for detailed video liked you opinion

Many good thoughts here. Good content.

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Appreciate the comment and thanks for checking out the video.

Thank you for your review. Definitely saved me from getting stand alone push 3. Saying that , I literally have to wheel around a suitcase with my push2, laptop, novation launch control, soundcard, headphones and all the wires. Had hope it would ve lessened the load

This was so helpful. I was looking to get the standalone Push 3 to use as a looper and play projects I would make in Ableton while playing live. I’ll just save the money and use my looper pedal instead.

I was hunting for an MPC2000 a while back and I realized something dumb - if I just wait long enough, the gear I have today will be retro soon too. I like the older stuff anyway, so stepping out of the way of the hype train only makes sense. I’m still rocking my Octatrack, a box that’s now 11 years old.

@user-rg4mm6ln6o

8 ай бұрын

Too many overrated new generation hipster controller trash EVERYWHERE….These kids with their GAS for the next cool hipster toy… these companies got people hooked. Rushing out the next new unfinished controller to rake in sales; only to go by the waste side in 2 years….MPC 2000, and Octatracks are built like tanks, and made to stand the test of time. Good for you bro seeing through the hype train. Sick of these new generation kids wasting all their hard earn money for the next toy they don’t need. These companies don’t give a shit about innovation anymore. Only to target a new generation of consumers getting them hooked on the GAS train.

Great insights ❤️🔥👌

Appreciate your points here! Also I had to laugh when at the end of the video I realised it was my own finger pointing at the power button 😂 I do also think it’s important to balance all the viewpoints out there, and in the heat of the moment and for a brand / concept a lot of us love it can be challenging perhaps, so it’s great to have yours too. Andri

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Thank you Andri! I'm definitely not calling anyone out for their review, and if Ableton had offered to send me a review unit I'm sure I would have been as excited as everyone else. It did seem like we needed a different perspective, and to be fair I did start to see more videos like mine after the launch reviews. And thank you for your review! I enjoyed it and it was one of the few that had a close up of the power button. :)

I sold Push 2 first day Push 3 announced. I will prolly sell Maschine+, and will get Push 3 Controller only. Next, I'll only spend precious music money on analog synths and keep playing iPhone/iPad as a mobile groovebox.

You’ve convinced me not to get the standalone one. I’m probably still going to get the non-standalone one and upgrade from my push 1, because the note editing and MPE functionalities look really enticing to me. Hopefully with the upgrade kit in the future they’ll have a battery with better capacity. Nice vid!

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Wow, really glad I was helpful! Going from the Push 1 to the 3, there is probably enough to make it worth it. Even the Push 2 really improved the experience from the 1, so it's probably a good time for you to upgrade. Thanks for watching and commenting!

I put a simple little rubber bumper on my P2 power button. You can get them at your local office supply store. They’re designed to put on the backs of picture frames or on the bottom of items that might scratch furniture. 😊

Thank you my friend

Very helpful video. My dreams of an Ableton style clip/scene workflow in a single device that I can take out of the studio into the living room (my 2nd favorite place to make music) seemed have been met by the Push 3, but I'm starting to be skeptical about the prospects of standalone devices. Thanks for your perspective!

I agree with all your points and really do think even if I were to perform live, I'd rather stick to my powerful laptop and have the Push 3 as a controller. As to the battery, on a standalone device I see why it would be beneficial. While I definitely would plug in even for standalone sessions at home, if I wanted to move the device (from my sofa to my workstation) I'd much rather not have to save and turn it off rather than just unplug it and move it over. I think this is the actual point in the battery.

Thanks for that. I was considering a new Push but I think I will stick with the Push 2 for now.

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Glad this was helpful in making the decision! Thanks for watching.

Great Video!! What stand are you using for the PUSH 2 in your video?

@peabodyscientific2082

4 ай бұрын

Thank you! It's the On-Stage LPT7000 Deluxe Laptop Stand. Great piece of gear, very versatile.

Hearing you say maschine-ah like that is like using your finger nail to push that power button

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

😂 I feel that. It's a German product though, gotta give the proper pronunciation!

@pwho405

Жыл бұрын

@@peabodyscientific2082 all good 👍🏾

great video

While I am not at all interested in Push, as I use Cubase for 30 yrs and will never change DAW (not saying Live is bad, I can use it, and it is great for some things, but lacks other that I need), I tend to agree with your analysis with one remark about MIDI controller evolution. You are absolutely right, controllers have been evolving to substitute for instruments and bring that tactile feeling to music making process - however, initial controllers were made for something different entirely. Rewind to late eighties, most of the synths were either physical modelling, FM/PD or romplers. The overall design was to cram as many features as possible into keyboards with a few buttons. Most of the controls were buried deep in the menu and the only thing players could perform with would be a pitch bend and a mod wheel, quite often assigned to one, hard- to -change -without -digging parameter. Another example would be racks, all JVs, TX's etc. So, developers started producing relatively cheap MIDI controllers with faders to allow for flexible performance. This was the first time controllers were adapted to suit digital instruments (well, analogue too, but mostly digital). Legendary controllers like Fat Boy and Knobby (funny for nowday's standards) were boxes that really helped unlock potential of the rack synths. Roland's PC series combined with Fat Boy would be something any decent controller looks nowdays, keys, faders etc. Just wanted to add this for the younger crowd, as it is a part of music tool's history. Funny enough, those controllers were not designed for use with the first computer software (PC300 was great with Cubase on Atari ST tho) and there was no deep integration in early DAWs. BTW while I am mostly using hardware instruments and computer for tracking and mixing only, I am an absolute fan of NI from early years and Generator, I had all incarnations of Maschine, except for this plus calamity. I get the race, but these products by NI, Akai and Live really dont cut it - built with mediocre specs and running OS that doesn't support bunch of stuff will forever mark these boxes as just a downgraded version of the computer.

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely. I meant to add a note that I was mainly talking about the early computer-compatible controllers (and also a note that Acid is far from an "early DAW" but it was one of the first that I used). Great comment. Thank you for sharing and for checking out the video.

Thanks for the great review - even though to me, and probably to me only, the Push 3 is just perfect! I got one, because I’m completely new to the producing „game“ (just been DJing until now) and I did not have an audio interface prior to that - so at least one point goes here for me inside this price tag 😅 also the standalone capability is just phenomenal to me as it’s firstly more accessible to me then the full on DAW on the computer screen and secondly I’m still the most interested in performing rather than producing in a studio-environment. As also my DJ-grat. is stand-alone, the Push 3 is the perfect gear next to that - and I can’t have that so easily with other brands right now than the Push. So yes - it’s a higher price to pay, but to me 100% worth it!! Nonetheless I definitely agree with you for other usecases, which are not so specific as mine 😊

Thanks!

agreed here actually, MPE is the only thing I wanna upgrade from push 2 for. I just didn't get that same excitement like when I watched the push 2 launch video. No one is talking about how underwhelming the interface specs are either.

@davemakesnoises

9 ай бұрын

true, the preamps need some more headroom, 96k sample rate is wishful thinking, maybe with future hardware. Not passing phantom power is also big oopsie. In line phantom power adapters aren't too pricey, but i think they dropped the ball on that one.

The thing that will probably hook me in is the Adat expansion on the stand alone which will allow me to record all of my hardware synths while Jaming Yes I could go straight into my Daw via My quantum but them I am working across platforms and having to deal with latency To be able to sample and build tracks playing live is something that I have wanted to be able to do for ages

Nice review! By the way, what stand is it you're using for your push? Been looking for something similar.

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! It's the On-Stage LPT7000 Deluxe Laptop Stand and I HIGHLY recommend it. It's way better than a rack mount because you can easily adjust it to different heights, and you can use it for all kinds of gear: laptop, midi controller, sheet music, lyric notebook. It has a sticky pad that keeps whatever you put on it right in place. One of my best studio buys lol.

At the end of 2014, I paid 799 Euros for a Push 1 with Ableton Live 9 Suite included. Still have and use that push1, but not enough to warrant an upgrade for that much money. MPE is awesome, but more controllers will have it for less money in the future. If I were a live performer, I would still use a laptop as a backup, so I agree on the limited value of the standalone version.

You are so right, my friend! And those sponsored reviews are annoying, tbh. Who will tell you that there're so many things that are just not there yet...

Good review! One of the features that really appealed to me was the CV outputs as I'd really love to use it with my eurorack. That said, for the price theres no way I'm upgrading from my Push 1. Also I'm really glad you showed the prices of the standalone components! It's shocking to me how much theyre charging for those cheap processors / ram / memory! And the fact they say on the website that providing your own hardware would damage the Push seems sus to me...

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! I went through the component prices kind of quickly, I'm glad you caught it. I think it really puts in perspective what you are getting, but also how much future upgradability options we are likely to actually see. Future upgrades is one area where I think there has been a little bit of over excitement given that we don't know what that will actually be.

Thanks for this, it’s good to know that there is still honest reviewers out there.

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Appreciate you checking it out and hope it was helpful.

Hey this is a great video, and honestly so much more than a "push 3" review. I'm 29 yo and making music since 10 or so years. And frankly I never thought of midi controllers and stand alone devices as of something "coming back". Interesting perspective there for younger generations of music makers I think, well at least to me. Cheers!

@peabodyscientific2082

11 ай бұрын

Thank you, appreciate that!

I'm also seeing reports that people in the US are receiving Push 3's with British power plugs. Not sure what's going on at Ableton.

In terms of 'music on the go' - I have a MPC Live II for 2 years now, and I've never regretted that choice. Up to 4 hours with built-in speakers. Inputs for guitars and microphones you can then put effects on. I've had so much fun with it, jamming with the guys at the beach, I can't imagine swapping it for a Maschine or a Push...

I bought a linnstrument 128 you can program the colors with CC 20-22 But then again I've been programming Max since 3.5. I look at useful machines in a different way.

Thankyou for honest review as an Ableton user, personally I wanted to love this but theres just some buts..... I really like the idea but tbh owning akai well ....theres just some red flags on here that I sooo wanted to buy but perhaps not....

I agree with your closing statement. The Push 3 does exactly what the Push 2 does with the exception of MPE pads, but it doesnt seem like that much of an upgrade as the Push 2 was to the Push. I can wait for MPE, especially since i just bought a Push 2 last Summer.

Can you tell me what stand you use for your Push and how you like it? Thanks!

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Yes! It's the On-Stage LPT7000 Deluxe Laptop Stand and I HIGHLY recommend it. It's way better than a rack mount because you can easily adjust it to different heights, and you can use it for all kinds of gear: laptop, midi controller, sheet music, lyric notebook. It has a sticky pad that keeps whatever you put on it right in place. One of my best studio buys lol.

@michaelmurphy1744

Жыл бұрын

@@peabodyscientific2082 Thanks! I was trying to figure it out and that one didn't show up in my search.

im not getting the standalone not the way I work - I dont envisage myself leaving the computer at home and I use gigperformer 4, which is essential for my track heavy sets. the fact it's modular and the fact they have said it will be upgradable kind of addresses the future proof doubts.. not quite up to my M1 though, but I have the controller on order as I do a lot of slicing and clip building on the fly and the MPE is something I have already incorporated with the Expressive E touche.

Push one is the real mvp!

What kind of stand is your Push 2 on?

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

The On-Stage LPT7000 Deluxe Laptop Stand and I HIGHLY recommend it. It's way better than a rack mount because you can easily adjust it to different heights, and you can use it for all kinds of gear: laptop, midi controller, sheet music, lyric notebook. It has a sticky pad that keeps whatever you put on it right in place. One of my best studio buys lol.

@mk4kc5cmc4

Жыл бұрын

@@peabodyscientific2082 Awesome, thank you so much. I've been looking for something like this and I think you just sold me on this unit. Appreciate the information.

I'm definitely going to go for a used Push 2. Push 2 already was a major price hike from Push 1 (which I own) and now Push 3 "pushes" the limit even further. I'm sorry Ableton, but a thousand bucks for a controller or two thousand bucks for a standalone instrument is just insane. I think the comparison with Maschine still holds true today, and that is 599 for the controller and 1199 for the standalone version. Heck, even the Deluge (which is an extremely versatile machine) goes for 600 bucks less than the standalone Push 3. I'm curious to see if this pricing strategy works for Ableton, because I really can't see many people buying a Push 3 at this price.

@thebicycleman8062

Жыл бұрын

they are a billion dollar company - i think them being in the games for tens of years with billions of dollars i could say that they KNOW WHAT THEY R DOING with their MARKET RESEARCH vs. some youtube BRO...

@allancerf9038

Жыл бұрын

@@thebicycleman8062 They're no where NEAR a billion dollar company, 'bro.' They're nowhere near the Fortune 1000 top companies by revenue. You know the 'internet?' It exists to check yourself before throwing out statements. About one TENTH of that. I know, dudes like to exaggerate. Now I like Ableton and use it all the time but facts are facts. Ableton's estimated annual revenue is currently $112.6M per year.

Arturia teased that they are launching their own MPE controller, I'm going to wait to see what that looks like before getting anything else.

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

If the Keylab gets refreshed with MPE, that would be something!

I just want to know if they’re going to give push 2 the same updates as the standalone 3. I don’t see why they couldn’t.

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

I feel like the midi clip editing could definitely be implemented on the Push 2 at least.

If MPE was their party line, I’m very happy with my Push 2 & Roli Seaboard Rise 25 - both of which I bagged for less than 1k. Very good objective review. Ta

wow! acid 4! like back in the days!

The #1 argument really is that music on the go isn’t practical. In the future when the internals are more powerful it may be nice to upgrade for performances

@TunaCanGuzzler

Жыл бұрын

funny thing is, internals can be powerful enough. companies are just hell-bent on catching a good margin on the components used so they choose trash (low end) DSP/CPU's that are a few generations old (3 generations old in the case of the push 3), a 10th gen i3 processor is just laughable these days.

The missing MPE capability was what bothered me most with the Push 2. Hence I switched to the Push 3 recently. And I’m glad I went for the Standalone instead of the Controller. It opened up possibilities that I didn’t think of when buying it. E.g. I love using it as a multi-track recorder for a few hardware synths and a small Eurorack case without needing to start up the computer as usual, and being able to simply drag those files via WiFi from the Push into Ableton Live onto the computer later on as needed. It also works brilliant as a sampler and looper, again without the need to start up the computer. Regarding the “on the go” scenario I wouldn’t use it on the bus or train anyway; but I already used it in another room, at my friends home or in my favorite café while on battery … and I really enjoyed it.

I’m just thankful you was honest. Most of these reviewers lie because it’s able to they just say is the best thing out.

Thanks for this, Peabody Scientific. My huge complaint is this is regardless of who made it, what DAW it is for...imho it's YEARS behind it's time. Sure it can do some slick stuff. Looks nice. No denying. The analogy I use - a great friend in California owns an IT company. He just now got fiber in his home. You know how long Google, alone, had dark fiber purchased and just sitting idle? Finally with Fiber this dude is getting the speeds of yesteryear he deserves - in 2023. Besides costly R&D, I can't think of a single thing that would have prevented Push 3 - years ago. Does Push 3 come quite close to reproducing the entire software experience, mouse and all in a standalone device (I know there's a non-standalone)? No. On the plus side, Ableton implemented a truly appreciated move - ability to upgrade hardware. Taken down a notch by providing - the hardware of yesteryear. Surely Ableton could have bought much hotter hardware and received bulk discounts for volume, in say, California. True, with the memory plant burning, Covid-19, the death of places like 'Fry's' (a place in California where anyone with a brain could get burning-edge hardware on the cheap) hardware is no longer cheap. But Ableton with it's resources (their average salary published online proves this) could without question, have procured better hardware. For me, Ableton has made some obvious genius moves with their software over the years. For example, there's not a musician since Homer that hasn't said "jeez, I wish I could remember what I just played." Capture MIDI solved that. It's not like they don't do some things exactly right. Ableton can't please everyone with Push 3, I get it. For those that love it, I wish them God speed. I'm mainly interested in the degree to which the current Push 3 unshackles them totally, from the software. I do have high praise for Suite 11 V.3.0 (now on 3.3). The long autowarp feature works incredibly well, and I use it and I'll take it. But as an Ableton insider proves in his videos, this too could have been implemented as he says, "YEARS ago." One last thing. There's not a single person I know - and I obviously know very few people out of 7 billion, that doesn't feel that music created with the aid of a controller sounds better. I'm not really sure why - theories exist. With my own music NOT using a controller and the sets without - just not nearly as good. So, I feel everyone should get SOME sort of controller, even a cheap one and see how they like it/improves their music. Before they even dream of dropping two grand.... P.S. Yes, I own a Push and was an 'earliest' adopter, all those years ago with Push 1.

The sad fact is most the launch "Reviews" by KZreadrs are thinly veiled sponsorships. They get the device for free, often get paid, and if they say anything critical whatsoever, they won't get free products from other manufacturers in the future, so their reviews are always positive in service of keeping the gravy train rolling.

I had to return mine. I was unable to authorize my software.

I jam with a guitar player and a drummer and I kinda wanted to get a Push 3 because it would mean alot less stuff to haul over to the jam space and I could use it in my studio and just unplug one thing and bring it over. Being able to ditch the laptop, the interface, and just having less cables seems like a huge bonus.

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

It could definitely lighten the load. How do you jam with them, does everyone plug into Ableton Live? Or are you just playing Ableton instruments alongside the guitar and drummer separately?

@rancorprimegames

Жыл бұрын

Just playing alongside them separately. I'm pretty new to ableton but I like the push. Got any alternative suggestions?

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

@@rancorprimegames The Push is the most comprehensive controller for Live, and the Push 3 is the only option if you don't want to bring a laptop. The downside is that you can only play Ableton instruments on the standalone, no other 3rd party VST synths or instruments. The Maschine MK3 could be an option. It has an interface and there are control scripts for Ableton available that give you a lot of control. And you would be able to play any VST instrument. The Arturia MiniLab could work too. Lots of control and pretty portable, but you would potentially need to bring an interface unless you have a cable that plugs into the headphone port.

@rancorprimegames

Жыл бұрын

​@@peabodyscientific2082 Yeah the loss of VSTs is huge. I'll probably stick with the laptop for now then. Gonna look into the MK3 tho. thanks for the input and the video! cheers

I'm a Push 2 user and although I like it, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone because there are so many great controllers out there now that don't lock you into using Ableton. I guess the 3 standalone has a MIDI Out...? So theoretically you could use it with another DAW, or "DAWless"...?...but in my opinion there are other controllers out there that cost much, much less that do more (and some have CV out), and you're not going to do finished tracks on the standalone Push 3 so it does become a direct comparison with those other controllers.

Im not going to argue your point. But put it this way, I was using elektron devices before the standalone push. The functionality of all of them together doesn’t even cover what the push 3 standalone does and costs way, way more than it. The only thing I can readily think of is the octatrack real time recording \ buffer functionality, as the exception. Maybe at a stretch, the analog synthesis and somewhat more immediate setup of synthesis (still have a moog Mavis + A4) Your point stands if you argue that anything towards dedicated hardware except for a MIDI controller is pointless.

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

I think you're probably right that for someone wanting to go DAWless the Push 3 is probably an excellent product. As I mentioned in another comment, I guess I'm more skeptical of premium price points for standalones having started out with standalones back in the day and remembering why DAW + midi controller was so appealing in the first place. But yeah, there is probably no standalone device with anything close to Ableton Live as it's internal sequencer. Thank you for your comment and for watching.

@mooted5513

Жыл бұрын

@@peabodyscientific2082 I get you. Let’s start by making Elektron to stop asking 1 grand for a distortion pedal and the rest will follow :)

Thank you for sharing your honest thoughts. I agree 100%. Was starting to wonder if these reviewers were paid to say only nice things. Too expensive - it doesn't come with the full featured DAW. Also think missed opportunities by ableton with that jog wheel - where is arrangement mode when a useful maxforlive device can do that. For that price it should make me a cup of coffee. I think comparing Push with Maschine is relevant actually. I've been harping on about NI's user experience focus. Think of the NKS standard just that move was so smart. Did you know NI have mapped some of their VSTs to Push straight out of 6 box - user experience. Maschine mk2 to mk3 userbility changes felt more substantial and more considered. Not the case with Push 3. I honestly think Ableton felt they had to do this to catch up with the competition. Unnecessary in my opinion. These guys make one of the best DAWs out there. Those algorithms, live capture, flexibility, their instruments, etc they are capable of crazy good s**t. When Maschine mk3 came out I wanted one, here I am also sticking with my Push 2

The standalone is definitely expensive, but the controller version is a solid upgrade over Push2-which you know because you outlined some of the best features in this video. When you consider that inflation has driven up the cost of just about everything, $1000 doesn't seem that crazy when you consider the new MPE pads and the built-in interface. It's a fair point that most people already have an interface, though. I'd like to see the controller version not come with the interface or have a 3rd option without it, priced closer to the old Push2. I still think the Push 3 is an amazing piece of gear and a solid upgrade over Push2. The standalone won't be for everyone, but for the people who want that, this will be the new king of standalone devices, especially for those who want the ability to easily go back to the PC to finish a track after a jam session. That alone is worth the price of admission over something like the MPC Live or Maschine+ (both expensive devices as well).

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Great comment. Fair points, and very well reasoned. Thank you for the comment and for watching!

@nicolas_coffman

Жыл бұрын

Totally agreed. Controller for $1000 is a good deal for MPE and ADAT alone. Standalone for an extra $1000 is too much for most. What I am hoping to see soon is some discussion regarding stability and Max4Live. If the price point is intended for professionals who need flexibility or specific setups, then these advanced concerns seem more relevant in the standalone discussion.

@wurlinnawurl

Жыл бұрын

On a mpc you can finish a track though..lol

@buckbreaker5185

Жыл бұрын

Paypigs gonna paypig

@zublits

Жыл бұрын

@@buckbreaker5185 Poors gonna poor

I just got the Push 3 Controller (still within the return period) as an upgrade from Push 2. The improvements are small and incremental, and it has me thinking about whether buying a Linnstrument 128 would be a better use of my money. I really wish Ableton would have gone with a 12x12 grid, as that would have opened up new chromatic layouts. Also, MIDI editing on the device screen still seems awkward. Let’s just say that there is room for improvement.

Followd because you said you don’t care about followers your channel sick as fuck I love it happy to a found it

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Wow, thank you! I will (hopefully) have more good content coming.

I have akai force, push2 and apc 40mkii. Force in control mode seems to be the most advanced realtime performance controller for live looping. It just has major bugs with the akai network midi driver in that it steals focus and locks other midi usb controllers in windows until you power cycle them. Apc has that special pedal input for live looping like a boss rc303, where as push2 has dedicated fixed length button. There is unique functions on all 3 that you wish were available to all 3. Ultimately its what workflow works best, but standalone is always limited, better to spend money on stage laptop and use them as control surfaces. Rkc generally bounces all beef up tracks to audio stems only to not burden cpu/ram but i tend to work with both multiple midi and audio so ability to arm on press is very important to me with dedicated realtime buttons for arming.

I was hoping the Push 3 would have been a hybrid that allows you to switch between the 2 Live modes (Session and Arrangement) perhaps switch the pads to be more like Maschine, and a bigger touchscreen to manage arrangement view. The price is also well beyond affordable. It's as disappointing as the Maschine+ was.

Currently trying to imagine doing live performance with stock devices only, particularly for electric guitar and bass. The ableton amp sims are useable but... I can't love them. I could get a non-standalone Push3 (for the MPE and fancy pads) and a refurbished M1 and have no limitations.

@allancerf9038

Жыл бұрын

Funny you mention the amp sims. I lucked into one great sound that sounds great but mostly I'd say they're terrible. I asked Live Support years ago, how did the demo of the amps sound so good and a guy from Ireland on their support team said "mate, they're incredibly fiddly." To their credit, Ableton said that VERY subtle changes on the amp controls are the difference between usable sounds and not usable. Sorry to go on; you're the first dude I've ever read comment on their amp simulations. For me the cabinet is the worst thing about the simulations. The amps with infinite fiddling can be made to sound okay but the cabinets are terrible. Like I say, I got lucky and lucked into one incredible, very realistic sound, but it was sheer luck. Naturally I've saved that miracle so it can be recalled. (Two of their legacy midi guitar imitations from version 8, are fantastic, by the way.) Good luck with Push 3 non-standalone. Let us know how it works out.

for the push 2 button, i'm surprised you didn't just stick a plastic button on it. you can easily do this with some doublesided tape.

I started with Live 9 and always wanted a Push, but never had the 'extra money' for it as a hobby... then Push 2 appeared and my tongue drooled more - but still too little pocketmoney. But now there was an opportunity to get Push 3 as Controller (as 'I said as a hobby!) - testing it right now. Am I wrong? What do you think? (at least my kids love ist :-D)

@peabodyscientific2082

11 ай бұрын

I think you'll love it as much as your kids do. 😊 There's a case for getting the Push 2 vs. the non-standalone Push 3, but ultimately if you're fine with the price, I'm sure you won't regret getting the Push 3.

The appeal of the standalone is for me, as someone who spent a lot of time gigging, one less thing to carry. That's one of the things I like about the Push in general - it does a lot. I can replace my regular keyboard. It's also a fun idea that I could just take the thing into another room in my house and play it the way I do a guitar. MPE was the main thing that really interested me, kind of for the same reason. I use an EWI for a lot of expressive synth stuff, and the push 3 could potentially replace that. It's the full realization of the push as an INSTRUMENT, not just a "controller." That being said, when I'm not trying to do something live and I want a synth, I usually end up going with my standard keyboard and my EWI because those are just more familiar experiences, there is less to think about when it comes to playing something.

cool video

This was a fresh take compared to the reviews of the creators that received a Push. For me, I actively book shows in which I do perform with a Push already. Having access to my projects, along with a built interface, already takes makes Push 3 a 3-in-1 item for me. The price definitely stings but luckily, I'm in a position where I can justify it and have it paid for from gigs. And honestly, the convenience of carrying LESS when going show to show is somewhat invaluable and one of those things you don't really "get" unless you've experienced it multiple times. The battery life is also a negative point but it's not a dealbreaker for me because I would opt to plug into power either way just to be safe while on stage.

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

So true. As I was writing the script, I was trying to think of a nice way to say "people who perform live professionally *and make money from it*" but ultimately decided to just say professionally, lol. If you know you will be earning money from this thing, it's a lot easier to justify. Thank you for sharing your comment and for watching the video!

@fluim0102

Жыл бұрын

For me having a controller that is also an interface (even though from what I read the quality of DAC/preamps isn't great) is a great solution. The whole standalone would be fantastic, but it seems like for big sets the CPU is a little underpowered and much more importantly, there is as of now no access to the arrangement view.

@allancerf9038

Жыл бұрын

@@fluim0102 The arrangement view is not contemplated in future releases as the argument is that even for people who buy and Love Push 3, the "computer + mouse" on a full size monitor would run rings around trying to do so on a Push-sized screen. You're talking a company that only got COMP lanes in the last couple of years. I use Live Suite 11 every day and love both views so I appreciate arrangement view but I will but "as of never," will there be an arrangement view on a Push-like controller.

“Computers were easily upgradable.” Apple silicon has left the chat. 😂

I am also buying the Push 3 controller for the MPE. Most of the premiere MPE controllers are priced above $700 (quite a few a priced above the push 3). So the price is actually pretty good considering that. The drawback of the Push 3 is that the scale mode currently only works with Ableton Live for the controller version. When comparing the push to Maschine you have to factor in the fact that playing instruments on the device isn’t the best experience. It is much better done on a keyboard. You don’t need a keyboard when using the push. I do think the push 3 may not be for people who preferring playing the keyboard. I for one have never warmed to playing the keyboard so I prefer the scale mode on the push and I always wanted to be able to play MPE on the push 2. Workflow is really important for any of these devices. I’ve never been a fan of Maschine’s workflow but I love the expansions so I use it anyway.

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Good points. I think Maschine has scale mode also though, doesn't it? I'm curious why you find the Push easier to play instruments on since they seem pretty similar.

@alsoulmusic

Жыл бұрын

@@peabodyscientific2082 Size of the pads and more of them. Smaller pads work better for me when using it as an instrument. I can access more of them without having to select octave up. I did try the scale mode in Maschine once but I already had the push and preferred it. It may have been a different story if I got the Maschine first. I have the push because it has this scale mode. Everything else is secondary to me.

@BrunodeSouzaLino

Жыл бұрын

The Linnstrument 128 is only a bit more expensive than the non-standalone Push 3, while the larger one costs less than the standalone Push 3. Both units have more pads than the Push 3 (the 128 has 128 pads and the larger one has 256)

I was thinking all these same things when looking at it. I think the battery really is a safe guard to power outs, but everything in the performance would need to be battery operated for this not to effect your set.. including the speakers?? lol What is interesting is being able to upgrade the CPU... I'm wondering is we will see people start to make their own standalone for it and load the Linux OS with this Ableton program on it and maybe even mod the case to be thicker to add more.. then even a custom battery when at it. As for the MPE... I'm a massive fan of that and for that reason the price bump of the controller version is fine. It is good you can upgrade later because I don't see a need for the standalone unless I wanted a hardware setup dedicated to beat making, I would not be playing live (yet). It would be nicer if Akai could bring out a second edition of the FORCE for this as they got close to a hardware DAW with the FORCE it just doesn't have multi track recording. After watching this I am decided that I will get the controller and not the standalone, it did help afirm things I was already thinking.

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

That's awesome, I'm really glad this helped. You make excellent points too.

Another fundamental issue is that currently standalone mode has no way to actually complete a full piece of music. There's no way to sequence clips or scenes. There is no basic bare-bones arrangement feature.

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Excellent point. They could add more functionality there in the future, but ultimately we have to evaluate the features it has now, not what may or may not be added/fixed in the future.

@bournedevinesupreme

Жыл бұрын

There's already a max4live arrangement device specifically for standalone, with many more to come.

@allancerf9038

Жыл бұрын

@@bournedevinesupreme What is it called?

I control and record my modular system using the Push 3 in standalone. That in and of itself is worth the price of admission for me.

I love my push 2 apart from its sticky coating, but since I'm a bedroom musician Im not too fussed about portability nor build in interfaces. MPE and the pads really seem great though, and the streamlining of its workflow look great as well. I wont be getting it however. Too expensive of an upgrade and I dont see myself trying to sell a sticky Push 2. I'm very excited to see what other MPE contollers will be released next few years.

@stanleyipkuss

Жыл бұрын

Yo why does that happen to it? 😂

No device is perfect, but with some (Not all) reviewers they will never let on that fact. This right here is how ALL reviews should be. Me? I went for the launchpad pro 3/ Akai Midimix /Varying keyboards option, because nobody cares what equipment you use, only the music you make

Finally someone who sees the drawback of this new standalone craze.

That could be a compelling device for MPE...But why would I buy that when I could buy a Linnstrument and have spare cash for other stuff instead? The Linnstrument is larger, truly cross-platform as all settings are configured on the unit itself and class-compliant. Even the smaller Linnstrument has more pads than both versions combined (128), while the largest has 256.

Yeah I might sell my Push 3 as well. I think Ableton didn't do enough market research on this.

why on earth is it so much to ask for the pads to be used for clip editing… or at the very least some kind of ipad ableton control surface app

There are nearly no real live sets with Maschine, or MPC Live or even Oktatrack. People don't use standalone devices in a live set / professional enviroment. It is a hobbyist / phone app market that this is playing a role in and for that it is doing a good job. Especially comparing it to when Akai or NI started their standalone devices. Those things were just complete crashing bugfests in the beginning.

Potentially it's very good. It's up to ableton to deliver on promises. I have a push two and the only reason to upgrade would be for mpe. If not then wait. There is no major rush. Standalone isn't a step backward. That might have been the firmware it shipped with. It's an i3 processor btw.....the lag isn't due to being a poor process but rather optimization. Having used it now for say 8 hrs? After the first update, its smooth

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Good to know the performance is improving. I still feel it's a step backwards because of the limitations (no 3rd party plug-ins, limited upgradability of the internals, battery life) but I understand it still has appeal as a standalone device to many people. Thank you for the comment and for watching!

Looking forward to your reviews of movies that you haven't seen.

@peabodyscientific2082

8 ай бұрын

You don't need the product to review its sales pitch. The video is a deep dive analyzing the value proposition of the Push 3 compared to the Push 2 and other similar midi controllers, not a product demo, and I say that right at the beginning of the video and in the description. I have many links to product demo reviews in the description also if that is what you were looking for. I hope this video was helpful though, if you watched it.

@CrazyAboutVinylRecords

8 ай бұрын

@@peabodyscientific2082 I disagree. You need the product to do a product review, and your video is clearly labeled as a review. Your so-called deep dive lacks credibility without any hands-on experience with the product itself. If you called this video "My opinion of the Push 3 based on what others have said, the marketing literature, and my experience with the Push 2" then I would have much, much less of a problem with it. Truth in advertising helps, and applies just as much to you as it does to Ableton. We're done.

@peabodyscientific2082

8 ай бұрын

@@CrazyAboutVinylRecords I reviewed the value proposition, not the device. I explained that at the beginning of video, so hard to say it was misleading. 🤷🏽‍♂️ Cheers.

Almost 4K for standalone with suite in Australia here. That’s just insane. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have one considering I come from an old groovebox background. But to be honest I would prefer to not be an early adopter and wait and see how this market pans out with more competition. Plus first gen always has its problems, (I’m talking in terms of its standalone) let’s see if they can get more third party support or just even convolution reverb. Maybe in a year or 2 you see a better processor with more ram on offer ? One thing I will say though, I believe ableton will come through in terms of updates though.

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

A better CPU is possible in the future, but we won't know what that is until then, and it will only be whatever Ableton decides it should be. If you're not already using a Push 2, I'd recommend you check that out since you're a fan of the groove box experience! Maybe even a used one, which would be a great value. Thank you for the comment and for watching!

@Naapeajaea

Жыл бұрын

I honestly believe we’re at the start of something much bigger, perhaps the PCB board that houses the processor could also support some form of PCI express Nvidia card in a minute form factor that the main CPU could offload FX processing to or even handle video of sorts, weather for running out video onto TV of project or for VJing purposes… once again there’s a myriad of ways that this could go, but perhaps with some competition from NI or Akai then we may see more features perhaps with a cheaper price.

@dankeplace

Жыл бұрын

@@Naapeajaea 4K AUD is far too much for this, given the device has no HDMI out for an actual Ableton screen, I think what they've done here is what TE does, make something for someone that really doesn't do that much for the asking $. For 4K you could get an excellent Laptop, or PC with screen, Push 2 controller, Ableton Suite and have much more versatility for less money. You can get cheap MPE controllers for around $400 AUD so there is nothing special about the pads imo. It's just too expensive imo.

@allancerf9038

Жыл бұрын

Enjoying read the comments here; yours was a good one. You're patient. In two years YEARS ...that's a long time to wait. You may have other interests or priorities in life in two years unless you're incredibly into music or a professional.

@Naapeajaea

Жыл бұрын

@@allancerf9038 so your an impulsive buyer ?

finally a honest review. thanks and subscribing!

@peabodyscientific2082

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching!