*Note: I've removed a section of the video that talked about the portfolio return figure PREVIOUSLY being on the company's website when it was higher - this allegedly came at the direction of the SEC, and I don't wish to mischaracterize the action.

@brianvernaglia9449

Жыл бұрын

Just finished watching while that part was there. Even if the SEC asked them to remove, still seems fishy. Advertising 15% return, but when it falls to 10%, removing doesn't seem right. Anyway, I'll stick with my kids' art pieces for my collection.

@notMattGarska

Жыл бұрын

@theplainbagel the section is still there

@feedmatt

Жыл бұрын

I just watched this video now and saw this portion of the video was still there. Maybe KZread is taking a while to update it?

@ThePlainBagel

Жыл бұрын

@@feedmatt yes sorry, the platform takes a while to update for the cut

@AlexanderTheGoodEnough

Жыл бұрын

@@ThePlainBagel thanks, for a bit there felt I was alone thinking this whole thing was questionable.

Shout out to all the creators out there who have been offered money to promote financial products and say NO to protect their audience. It's NOT easy to do that, and most of those who do rarely get any credit.

@rdln4313

Жыл бұрын

Let’s get you to the top of the comments.

@rdean150

Жыл бұрын

This is a great point. The unsung heroes of content creators.

@platoscavealum902

Жыл бұрын

That’s an Excellent point. Thank you Brian Feroldi.

@drakehashimoto685

Жыл бұрын

For sure, Brian, but I am curious though. Are all these youtubers that are sponsoring it potentially doing so out of malintent, or simply out of ignorance and not doing enough research perhaps? I'm not sure what the case is, but, I hope it's the latter. Apologies if this sounds weird or odd to anyone.

@karlo7w

Жыл бұрын

@@drakehashimoto685 I assume that most of them just think "This is an obviously stupid product, surely my audience isn't dumb enough to fall for it. And if they are - well it's not really my fault that they didn't do their own research". It's just that this is a lot more harmful when it comes to financial products than gamers promoting raid

I've been waiting for a respectable Finance KZreadr to cover this. It seemed a little too good to be true, and the "invitation only" claim inside an advertisement to please invest was also a red flag

@del7896

Жыл бұрын

I hoped even someone more of a layman like Coffeezilla (nice suspenders by the way) would do this, very positively surprised that Richard got there first. All the more so given some pretty respectable influencers who would never touch, or have even called out, some of the more questionable investments have started promoting them.

@Proxyincognito

Жыл бұрын

I am dissapointed that youtubers i actually respect peddle it. I mean i dont begrudge them their income, but as much as they tell everyone theres no such thing as low risk high return, they heavly imply it every time they banter on Masterworks.

@SamRocher

Жыл бұрын

Totally! It always felt so sketch!

@YT-mn4eq

Жыл бұрын

Amen

@charlesfries

Жыл бұрын

Are there any other respectable finance KZreadrs besides The Plain Bagel and Patrick Boyle?

What really boils my blood is the fact that it isn't your average influencer pushing a shiny new investment platform, it's KZreadrs in the finance space encouraging their viewers to invest in it without them looking into the company seemingly at all

@feliperobles7987

Жыл бұрын

I follow many of those finance channels so i guess that it says a lot about them. Being skeptical will be the way to proceed from now on.

@algeria1622

Жыл бұрын

Well, as someone who worked on structured products ( and I had to read a lot of clients contracts, and they are as fishy as masterworks ) I can assure you that it takes years to understand all these filings. A KZread Finance Guru who never worked in Finance or Legal jobs won't have any competency explaining the risks of these investments. I had colleagues with years of experience and they still found some clauses where we had to check them together to get an idea about the potential risks. SEC should definitely step up and close this company before the problems

@simonschneider5913

11 ай бұрын

finance content creators are even worse than dating-coaches - lowest bottomfeeders, yet new "customers" are always there...

@tomlxyz

11 ай бұрын

Most finance channels are untrustworthy opportunists. You can see that by then jumping on the newest trend regardless of whether it's a smart investment idea

@hulahula6182

10 ай бұрын

Finance youtubers have faith that their viewers are smart enough to recognise a scam

I'm not saying you and Coffeezilla should do a weekly show...but "Coffee and a Bagel" would make a fine title for one, if you did.

@moxictasculinity

5 ай бұрын

I’m hungry now.

@evilJim555

5 ай бұрын

if it ever happens let me know... i wont say anything publically but i have information..

@santiagoperez4907

4 ай бұрын

😂😂 this would clap

@eliasguzman1647

2 ай бұрын

I would love this! 🎉🎉🎉

@UnprofessionalProfessor

2 ай бұрын

@@evilJim555 bruh 💀💀😂

By far the weirdest part about their commercials is that they keep mentioning some arbitrary 'waiting list', which can be skipped by entering some youtuber's name in a box. At that point it's just not a waiting list anymore, rather being a mandatory referral box.

@oohhboy-funhouse

Жыл бұрын

The first # people who sign up with this discount code will also receive xyz. Even non scum services will use scum language like "If you sign up now you will get # months free" or "In partnership you also get this other service for free".

@cleigh3796

Жыл бұрын

Pathetic attempt to generate an air of exclusivity.

@dingfeldersmurfalot4560

Жыл бұрын

Yeah ridiculous in the extreme. It's so scarce everyone can have it!

@justinbarker871

Жыл бұрын

This. A waiting list that everyone can skip is utter bollocks and a sure sign that something’s fishy.

@barnz3000

Жыл бұрын

And in actuality its a setup for a phonecall hard sell. Felt a bit like a boiler room. Was not a fan.

I love the fact you made a 10 million dollar studio for just 1 joke

@ThePlainBagel

Жыл бұрын

Most expensive punchline yet

@sarthakmunda3914

Жыл бұрын

Bagel giving a nod to Coffee!

@CraftyF0X

Жыл бұрын

Such a legend man xD

@joeg536

Жыл бұрын

@@sarthakmunda3914 there's an app for that!.. I'll show myself out

@LuisSierra42

Жыл бұрын

He also put on the million dollar suit

It always astonishes me when people believe in "crazy returns" - if those crazy returns exist, you can bet your ass on it that by the time you hear about them (and everyone else), they're long gone and you're probably the person delivering those "crazy returns" for someone else. There's a reason why some things always just sound "too good to be true".

@sd-ch2cq

7 ай бұрын

Exactly: by the time it becomes a KZread advert you can be pretty sure it has already lost any possibility of high return.

@noyopacific

7 ай бұрын

It reminds me of the Fidelity Magellan fund after Peter Lynch became the manager. It had been a small fund but after delivering a few years of exceptional returns investors jumped in. The 5 year returns still looked excellent however there were few investors that had owned the fund for that long. Magellan became the biggest mutual fund there was at one time but they were not able to sustain the past record. I recall that despite having some stellar returns when the fund was small that during Lynch's tenure (1977 - 1990) the average investor actually lost 29% per year after all the money poured in to the fund.

@DJ_POOP_IT_OUT_FEAT_LIL_WiiWii

7 ай бұрын

@@noyopacific This is the norm with large mutual funds. During downturn they have more money to invest than there are opportunities in the market. They also need to trickle down any sell/purchase to avoid price manipulation and this makes them lose opportunity. A small fund is more agile because they have less money to move arround.

@moxictasculinity

5 ай бұрын

Whenever I see a KZreadr claiming a strategy with no losses , I look at the views and know that this strategy won’t work anymore even if it did before. A trading strategy with 500k views will definitely become useless.

@DJ_POOP_IT_OUT_FEAT_LIL_WiiWii

5 ай бұрын

@@moxictasculinity why though? the 500K viewers surely don't have much capital to upset the market, isn't it?

Thank you for your efforts! Masterworks is constantly reaching out to sponsor and I've always wondered more about them. Was suspicious but never dove in. Looks like I'll continue to not work with them.

@DJCannon5

Жыл бұрын

They are bad, they totally did a no show when I called them the 1st time and got mad when I asked about their company and losses.

@brayaki3768

Жыл бұрын

how much did they offer?

@kanthanesankandiah760

Жыл бұрын

Yeah. They are far right idiots and left wing numbskull. They will not visit Asia until a decade after Russia Ukraine war

@Baronnax

Жыл бұрын

Holy fucking shit, Sentdex. Your k-means Clustering tutorial got me through an internship bro. Keep up the good work.

@algeria1622

Жыл бұрын

The fact that you do due diligence to know about the products that you promote. You gained even more respect from me

You know the world of retail investing is totally broken when "they don't seem to be doing anything illegal" is basically the one of the biggest stamps of quality any service can get.

@Lonovavir

Жыл бұрын

This is why I stick with Index/Exchange traded funds and the occasional individual stock. It seems like everything is a scam somehow.

@hewhohasnoidentity4377

Жыл бұрын

​@@Lonovavirthe English language needs more words that can be used for different categories of scams. The word is just too vague. We have many terms to refer to fried potatoes even though there is little difference between hash browns and french fries.

@poetryflynn3712

Жыл бұрын

@@hewhohasnoidentity4377 Well, we do have terms for different types of scams. They're mostly locked up in ivory towers though.

@cerealspiller

Жыл бұрын

@@poetryflynn3712 Lots of every day choices 🙂 Deception, fraud, hoax, racket, ripoff, sham, con, flimflam, hustle, confidence game, crooked deal, fast one, shady deal, snow job, sucker game, grift, shell game, swindle and so on.

@poetryflynn3712

Жыл бұрын

@@cerealspiller Those don't categorize the scams themselves though. They just name them as a scam.

When I heard about Masterworks and viewing art as an investment, a quote rang clear in my head. "They know the price of everything, and the value of nothing"

Oldest adage in the book: If something looks too good to be true, it usually is. New adage: If something is heavily advertised by social media figures (inc. youtubers), it's either junk or a scam. I never trusted Masterworks to begin with; it always reeked of a scam to me, just didn't know what the con was. Glad to see someone finally reported on it.

@alpenjon

10 ай бұрын

Indeed! The same goes for those "privacy" VPNs if you really look into it. You pay them to give them access to all your devices and data. I haven't seen a product pushed harder.

@KitOkunaru

9 ай бұрын

​​​​​@@alpenjon VPN are not exactly bad, it's just the way they market their service. If your access to a website or application is already not secure (not being encrypted with TLS or E2EE, then having your traffic tunneled to another place just adds a fail sense of security. There are good use cases to a VPN, for example: - Accessing your bank while traveling to a country that is Geo-IP blocked by your bank. - Accessing your other devices remotely without opening a hole in your home firewall. - Bypassing basic censorship, in this case you might have better luck with a paid service or setting up a VPN yourself (in your home or paid host provider) because most "free" VPN have their IP address blocked. Only downside i can think of when doing this is that the IP will not be as anonymised since only a single person would be using the IP (your home) as opposed to thousands of people (VPN provider). Obviously the VPN provider still knows what IP you access, this anonymised (private) access is only from the point of view of a random website you use. If they are requested access by law enforcement they will definitely provide whatever meta data they have because they are not going to side with their customer. Of course it's always better to setup one yourself instead of trusting a random company.

@SilhSe

6 ай бұрын

Robert koyosaki et al. Promotes Masterworks

@UberPwner09

6 ай бұрын

@@SilhSe Is that supposed to mean anything?

@SilhSe

6 ай бұрын

@@UberPwner09 it means something; artworks, gold and probably digital currency. The opposition to Charlies value. (May he rest is peace)

My investments in artwork are exclusively reserved for works created by my children, grandchildren and a few close friends. This venue brings me the most joy and the prices are quite reasonable. 😍

@greenfloatingtoad

7 ай бұрын

Extremely wholesome

@sd-ch2cq

7 ай бұрын

Huge value for money 👌

@kenon6968

6 ай бұрын

Have fun staying loved

A rule of thumb I've learned over the years is that if a product/service is being highly marketed towards the general population, that company probably has a pretty hefty profit margin, and you should look elsewhere.

@rilmar2137

Жыл бұрын

My rule of thumb is: if a product/service is highly advertized by content creators, it's most likely not that good in the best case (compared to other similar products/services), straight up a scam in the worst case. Either way, I'm not buying

@Deathbyreality1

Жыл бұрын

When a company spends more on marketing then on their own product.

@GlobusTheGreat

Жыл бұрын

@@Deathbyreality1 than*

@Daboy804

Жыл бұрын

So what do you recommend as an alternative to investing in art? Or sensible investments?

@wta1518

Жыл бұрын

A good rule of thumb is that if something is being advertised by content creators whose content isn't directly connected to the product is a red flag (so a tech creator advertising computer parts is fine, but a tech creator advertising shoes is a red flag).

THIS is why you're my favorite finance KZreadr. I've never seen a better breakdown of MasterWorks. It was just what I imagined from a scummy company that heavily markets towards lay people and hides important figures.

@grantwithers

Жыл бұрын

they haven't technically become all the important just yet, just more risk. they're pretty clear it is a risky investment in the call I had

What really pisses me off is the people who got me interested in economics and scams, and told us to watch out for scammy offers that seem "too good to be true" (Coldfusion I'm calling you out) are the ones who advertise this platform.

@FliesLikeABrick

6 ай бұрын

Wall Street millennial is another one.... A finance channel pushing this stuff

You're getting much better at this. Humor up 100%, engaging script up 187%. Love to see it. Your content is important to a lot of people. I hope you know some people will have money for retirement because of your work

@putinski666

11 ай бұрын

He's undervalued even with those numbers. I'm hodling BAGL to the moon.

As an investment professional who knows a little bit about art, this seems a very fair appraisal. Good to see someone do the leg work to prove what everyone suspected. Great work!

@justinewins8726

Жыл бұрын

And as an art professional who knows a little bit about investments I agree :)

@evilemuempire9550

Жыл бұрын

Masterwork lol

The "waiting list" part of the approach, is basically offering the bait, and then taking it away to make it seem more valuable. It inspires FOMO, fear of missing out, and encourages people to plunk down their money without thinking about it too much.

@DJCannon5

Жыл бұрын

I told them I make 60k they said it was not enough but that they would call me later. I declined.

@umairsiddick8239

Жыл бұрын

You make 60k a month and they declined?

@aurorajones8481

Жыл бұрын

Trust me...I make THEM wait... they keep sending me emails begging me to join. LOL My how the tables have turned. 😂

@BigJay039

Жыл бұрын

I was skeptical when there's a waiting list but if you CLICK THIS LINK NOW you can cut in line. 🙄 FOMO indeed.

@whyisthereahandlenow

Жыл бұрын

Reminds me of Cartmanland

My parents bought a painting for 10k back in the eighties. In the nineties they were offered 100k by three different wealthy buyers. When my parents passed we got 12k at a major art auction, paintings like it had lost most of their popularity.

@theren8311

6 ай бұрын

Sounds like they increased in value. They were bought for 10k, and years later sold for 12k...Doesn't matter what the perceived value at any given point was. You made an extra 12K from no where. It's a win.

@gaswe9236

5 ай бұрын

​@@theren8311 is this as far as your understanding of economics goes?

@theren8311

5 ай бұрын

@@gaswe9236 Well, explain what I got wrong..

@mipmipmipmipmip

5 ай бұрын

​@theren8311 ok for one thing you didn't perform an inflation correction

@theren8311

5 ай бұрын

@@mipmipmipmipmip Yet that doesn't negate the point I was trying to make, which is simply, he made 12k. Doesn't matter what value the paintings have or had at any point in time. The ones that lost were their parents, as it was their money that was spent. He just came about on some paintings in the garage, and made 12k out of thin air. He's only upset because he learnt what he could have gotten off it, if it was another point in time. I do take the point of inflation however, as my opening statement would be incorrect due to such.

This would be an interesting business model for museums. They could get some extra value from displaying the paintings while they hold them. They could even possibly 'pay rent' on more popular works- shareholders in that painting could vote to rent it or send it to auction at set intervals based on the museum's rent offer.

@jtjames79

Жыл бұрын

Your idea is exactly what NFTs are supposed to be for. A settlement layer, and a little bit of programmability for those votes and such.

@hedgehog3180

10 ай бұрын

That's kinda how it works already, private collections will regularly lend art works out to museums, partly with the goal of marketing said art work so it can be sold for more. Of course the museums themselves could never function as a broker, do I even need to go into all the potential ethical issues of a public educational institution soliciting donations from the public and trying to make a profit?

The Coffeezilla cosplay was hilarious. Y'all's video together was also great. He needs to have you back again

As an artist, I am baffled every time I see an ad say “art is the greatest investment”, because I have some awareness of the industry and its really not. Besides how difficult it is to buy and sell and store, it’s a complex guessing game what art will actually be more desirable in the future. Especially with contemporary art it can literally go from barely being seen to worth a million dollars because someone at a museum decided to have it in their show (or, you know, the artist died). There are people who can make a slightly more educated guess or can in some cases brute force value (like sotherby’s), but art is only a good investment if you have the kind of money to lose 99/100. And even then I’ve heard some good reports from dealers and researchers that that might be optimistic

@numero8035

Жыл бұрын

I'd say it is a complex gambling game, because it is literally random.

@NihongoWakannai

Жыл бұрын

Also the fine art scene is filled with under the table deals and tax evasion.

@SecondTake123

Жыл бұрын

@@NihongoWakannai yup!

@oz_jones

Жыл бұрын

It is a great investment... if you want to launder your money

@Ziegfried82

Жыл бұрын

It's something only the extremely wealthy can pull off. You need to have the proper conditions to store the artwork and that is NOT cheap, especially something like a Monet or Picasso.

Another issue is that the value of works of art is also affected by the people who owned them previously. Each piece has a story, and those with more interesting stories attract more attention and higher prices.

@1997saltydog

Жыл бұрын

A example would be the Mono Lisa. 100ish years ago, no one really cared about it until it was stolen but then returned.

@algorithmgeneratedanimegir1286

11 ай бұрын

@@1997saltydog I still think no one should care about it. It's boring and not great.

@1997saltydog

11 ай бұрын

@@algorithmgeneratedanimegir1286 Me too. Its definitely overrated.

@Rr0gu3_5uture

10 ай бұрын

Personally, I'm a bigger fan of the Stereo Lisa!

@DJ_POOP_IT_OUT_FEAT_LIL_WiiWii

7 ай бұрын

@@Rr0gu3_5uture Dolby Digital Surround Lisa

Great video, Richard. When I first started seeing the ads for Masterworks, I was interested. I had never heard of an "art fund." Which is what I figured it was. Then I started reading the fine print like you did. I got as far as the 20% they take when they sell the art (after already having seen the 11% fee at the time the art is purchased) and I knew I was out. I did get as far as the very non-detailed footnote about the owner/customer having to pay the expenses of listing (etc., etc.) and, well, I was already out, now I was out out. Since I had filled out some kind of form in order to see these documents, they had my contact info and kept contacting me repeatedly. Finally I responded and told the employee that I think they take out way too many fees; essentially it's a borderline scam where the people operating the fund get paid, and if there are any crumbs left over for the people who have bought in, lucky them. The idea of an "art mutual fund" has potential, but this is not it.

I AM SO GLAD YOU ARE COVERING THIS. I have always been skeptical but there was no one talking about this, many of my favorite youtubers such as the JOHN COOGAN & MODERN MBA was promoting this! Also they used to say "ftc certified" now they DON'T.

@shaanthacikyan3958

Жыл бұрын

I concur.

@fionn9852

Жыл бұрын

economics explained too! it made me stop watching

@r-pupz7032

Жыл бұрын

It's so frustrating. I don't expect every random KZreadr to be able to do a deep dive into the intricacies of something like Masterworks to determine if it's a scam or very risky, but I DO expect channels that focus on financial topics to do their due diligence. You'd think they'd be a bit more cautious, especially after other influencers were caught in the FTX debacle...

@hulubangaGutenWami

Жыл бұрын

@@r-pupz7032 If my memory serves me right, they promoted Masterworks (atleast JOHN COOGAN) before the whole FTX debacle. This was during the time everyone was freaking out about inflation.

@niedas3426

Жыл бұрын

I stopped watching modern mba because of this. He had it as a sponsor in one video, was criticised in the comments for it. Hard. Ok, happens. Weird that there was no reaction from him, but whatever, I thought. And then he did the same thing a second time, a transition into a masterworks ad that is hardly recognizable as such when the transition happens. F that.

I hate that channels that I follow have started pushing an obvious scam

@k20nutz

Жыл бұрын

Ditto. My bs alarm went off the first time I heard about it

@luisfilipe2023

Жыл бұрын

It’s not a scam it’s just not a perfect investment but no investment is really

@agent0422

Жыл бұрын

A good deal of financial gurus are just grifters unfortunately

@erichkitzmueller

Жыл бұрын

I would not call it a scam, but in my opinion they promote a risky and complicated investment to rather uniformed people.

@cdo...49283

Жыл бұрын

This is absolutely not a scam. Its a legitimate and established but relatively risky investment platform.

What I fear is that more of these firms will pop up and trade these artworks between each other, creating a bubble until the bubble is nicely filled and pops.

@jeremygibbens7392

Жыл бұрын

You can bet that will happen!

@vincent67239

9 ай бұрын

I think that happened last year with luxury watches and grey dealers

Really disappointed that this episode wasn’t sponsored by Masterworks! 😂

@jeremygibbens7392

Жыл бұрын

lol

My rule of thumb is always "If it were really that good I wouldn't need to hear about it through marketing and ads."

@basdfgwe

Жыл бұрын

That's solid advice, anything in social media is dubious.

@cleigh3796

Жыл бұрын

Nah man, coca cola disproves this. Unfortunately. My teeth display acid erosion from years of regular soda drinking 😳

@sirzn

Жыл бұрын

Unless it's flex tape.

@HalIOfFamer

Жыл бұрын

@@cleigh3796 yeah but coca-cola does this not because someone might not have heard of it, but for the people who sometimes get an itch to drink a soda, and by having their brain filled with milions of cola ads, they instinctively reach for a coca cola.

@Reddles37

Жыл бұрын

It's always pretty suspicious when someone is trying to sell you a get rich quick scheme instead of just using it themselves...

There's also the issue that some outsized values of artwork are allegedly due to an elaborate tax avoidance scheme, where one piece of a certain artist's work is bid up to the stratosphere, which allows legitimate appraisers to put more value on the other works by the artist, which allows the holders of those works to donate them to a museum for a tax write-off that's worth more than what was paid for the artwork before the scheme was set in motion. It's hard to say whether this actually happens at a reasonable scale, but I'm sure it's happened at least a few times in history.

@GruMoney

Жыл бұрын

Tax write offs on a donation can only be done on the cost of the object, not on the apprasial amount. If you bought the art piece for $1,000, got it appraised for $1M, and donated it. You'd only be able to write off $1,000.

@stevenglowacki8576

Жыл бұрын

@@GruMoney Maybe where you live. But that's not the case in the US.

@stephans1990

Жыл бұрын

Speaking as an accountant; this is a common misconception. Even if you donate the artwork against the appraised amount, you would still need to pay income tax on the appraised value. So it would really be a zero sum game. Or even negative since most states and countries will have a maximum for how much you are allowed to donate in a given year. The only tax incentive to invest in art, is that in many countries it's not seen as an investment category and therefore exempted from wealth tax.

@daxasd3270

Жыл бұрын

@@stephans1990 That's not what a zero-sum game is, but yes, you're generally right - however. For example in german tax code there is a thing called "private selling transaction" (privates Veräußerungsgeschäft). If you hold to your painting, bitcoins and such longer than a year, you're allowed to sell it tax free - even if you're making bazillions with it (laundermat to the tits). Of course if it might stop applying if you're doing in... non-privately. But: you won't gain a tax loss from donation or selling it with loss as a person. As an enterprise it's different ofc.

@stevenglowacki8576

Жыл бұрын

I mean, I'm not going to say that any of you are wrong about the laws in your jurisdictions, but how I described it is how it works in the US. I could add "trust me bro I'm a Certified Public Accountant" but anyone can say that. If you're curious you can read IRS Publication 526. You'll find plenty of restrictions there, but as a general rule it's true.

What always turned me off were the ad reads themselves as they tend to be very deceiving. YTbers would often literally call such investments as "safe" and "good bets" which you quite thoroughly explained are anything but. And all ad reads should of been approved by the sponsoring company so in effect they put their official seal on it. It's one thing to hear of some scummy clickbait YTber promoting them but they seem to be getting alot of fairly reputable people onboard. It's so sad and honestly frustrating that this is still happening after the whole established titles scam.

@DJ_POOP_IT_OUT_FEAT_LIL_WiiWii

7 ай бұрын

How are they gonna afford all these sponsorship deals if it's not a scam? All these big marketing campaigns are not sustainable. At best you'll get a crap product or overpriced service. It's like those old TV infomercials. Reputable companies do not operate like this. You don't have videos sponsored by Kia or Colgate because it doesn't make sense financially for a company that offer honest product/service.

@bigdreams5554

7 ай бұрын

Government going after crypto for being shady but "investing in art" is even more BS. It's speculation!!

Thanks for this one! It's really needed, as Masterworks' ads pop up almost everywhere on youtube. The misleading advertising etc. you covered is enough on its own to make me steer clear of such a company. If it sounds too good to be true ....

The voice of reason strikes again, and brilliantly so. Even KZread channels that cover financial topics (Modern MBA, for example) are shilling for Masterworks, so I was getting a bit concerned. We need more like you!

@johnnytifosi

Жыл бұрын

Cough Economics Explained cough

@vasriccio

Жыл бұрын

@@johnnytifosi And on the last video they were sponsored by Established Titles. LOL. I unsubscribed after that.

@antlerman7644

Жыл бұрын

@@vasriccio same here

@Random_dud31

Жыл бұрын

@Vicente Riccio I didn't. Cause i use vanced. And youtubers think its unethical to use ad blocks. If they show unethical things, then i counter with my unethical blindfold

@LunaticTheCat

Жыл бұрын

Same with Joe Blogs.

This channel should be mandatory for any who watches financial youtubers. Keep up the good (and time-consuming!) work

@Antenox

Жыл бұрын

The problem is that MasterWorks isn't just hilled by financial KZreadrs.

@saethman

Жыл бұрын

@@Antenox :(

@tomlxyz

Жыл бұрын

@@Antenox But the financial KZreadrs should know they're questionable or at least try to find out if they are.

@NihongoWakannai

Жыл бұрын

@@tomlxyz yeah, a random person shilling for this can come across as just a regular sponsorship. But if a financial channel advertises this, it makes the audience think it's more legit AND the financial channel has absolutely no excuse for not recognizing it as a scam. Either they knew and willingly scammed people, or they didn't know and thus aren't qualified to run a finance channel. Everyone who toon this sponsor I unsubscribed to their channel.

@Frzned9x

Жыл бұрын

​@@NihongoWakannai 100% of financial youtuber that ever accept these kinda sponsor are scammer. Example Stephen Graham has been in the scamming business for years People who actually knows about financing, will never ever recommend you to invest in any products.

Masterworks has been pushed as hard as Established Titles for a while now. It's always been very suspicious.

@MATTY110981

10 ай бұрын

My default position for any sponsorship that you find on a KZread channel or Podcast has become one you take with a pinch of of salt.

THANK YOU. I wondered about this as an investment option but got cold feet after I just felt like they were trying to sell me too hard. I never looked into it beyond that but glad I did not blindly take the plunge. The fact that they are targeting less informed people (like me) tells you a lot...

@bigdreams5554

7 ай бұрын

Speculation isn't an investment. There's no cashflows from artworks

Whenever something is heavily promoted on YT, I tend to be verrrry wary. Thanks for pointing this out ! keep up the good work !

@FreedomAcademyNetwork

Жыл бұрын

If it sounds too good to be true. It probably is! Thanks Plain Bagel

@papabaddad

Жыл бұрын

It usually means more money is going into advertising than product development. a lot more.

@FLPhotoCatcher

Жыл бұрын

True!!! Remember Harry's razors? You don't see them anymore.

@clayongunzelle9555

Жыл бұрын

Once it goes full shadow legends you know something is off

I bought some art from an auction. But not to turn around and sell. I just get stuff I like to hang up and enjoy. I would never buy shares of a piece I couldn't physically own. I got to meet a couple artists in person which was really cool. Lebo is a really down to earth dude and his works are very colorful. If you ever visit Miami, you might see some of his works around as his studio is there.

@iversiafanatic

9 ай бұрын

I do wonder if there’s some value to buying shares of art if it’s to preserve it for all time. I’d feel good about spending $20 on a “piece of the Mona Lisa” if I knew it went to the guards keeping it safe, the glass it’s behind, and the building it’s in. You’re not owning it but you are contributing real money to its safe existence! Having a financial kickback for that is also good! But this isn’t that lol.

@FranziskaNagel445

7 ай бұрын

​​@@iversiafanaticI like the idea. I would probably frame it as "Adopt an Artwork" rather than shares. Make it clear that you are not buying ownership of the artwork you make a donation to the museum. Also clearly communicate what the donation money is going to be used for. I wouldn't adopt the Mona Lisa. That painting is famous enough to earn its upkeep. I rather donate to smaller museums and less famous artists.

@Redolentleek

6 ай бұрын

Masterworks as a concept pitched to “art lovers” was misguided. The appreciation selling part of art is just the benefit to a collector. The primary purpose should be the love to have it and look at it everyday. Very soon we will start seeing people selling fraction shares of luxury watches lol

@placeholderdoe

5 ай бұрын

@@Redolentleeki own part of a rolex, it own it from 1:15 PM to 1:17PM

Excellent video. The masterworks ads alone stink of bad fish. Investments driven by aggressive, social media-driven urgency and FOMO never end well.

I was always paranoid about masterworks for a single sentence every single one is saying it when they talk about masterworks, which is " use the link to pass the waiting line", which it feels like they're trying to amass as much as possible before the bubble burst

@wellthen4128

Жыл бұрын

For me if felt like marketing manipulation to try get FOMO from the people. Like what company has a waitlist lmao, Hella sketchy

@MrJakeypakey

Жыл бұрын

It's not necessarily about hooking people before the bubble pops, but it's a very obvious appeal to the principle of scarcity. Companies use those kinds of tricks to make people think that they're getting exclusive access when they're actually not. Personally, I find it scummy and off-putting, but it seems to work...

@oz_jones

Жыл бұрын

Totally not a rugpull, i swear :)

@davianoinglesias5030

Жыл бұрын

It very much sounds like scarcity manipulation

I was always skeptical, but when I heard a youtuber actually say "the artworks that Masterworks gives you access to have increased in value by [some crazy percentage] in the last year, and I'm happy to say that [some insanse amount] of my subscribers have signed up in that same time to reap the benefits," I knew we were talking about tulips.

@anonymous.youtuber

Жыл бұрын

You’d be baffled to experience how few people know about tulip mania.

@DarkAngelEU

Жыл бұрын

@@anonymous.youtuber Buffett compared the crypto fad to tulip mania and I was surprised how accurate his comparison is. Same with NFT's, now they're just trying to shift the attention from digital artwork to real artworks. And it's always apps on your phone. First Robin Hood, then Bux, now Masterworks. Maybe they'll make an app where you can buy antique car parts and when everyone bought enough to renovate them and assemble the actual car, they will put it on auction... And no one will buy because they'll be banned from the streets by then lmao

One must remember to ask not only "Is this a scam?", but "What's the catch?" There's *always* a catch. Sometimes it's worth it, and sometimes you need to walk away. :-/

@DJ_POOP_IT_OUT_FEAT_LIL_WiiWii

7 ай бұрын

The catch is right in your face. Would you invest your money with a company that spends so much on marketing?

@expensivepink7

6 ай бұрын

they're talking generally...@@DJ_POOP_IT_OUT_FEAT_LIL_WiiWii

If you don't hold it, you don't own it. I don't trust any of these companies that sell "stock" in things like art and sports memorabilia. There's too much that can go wrong, and when it does, you better believe that you'll be the one holding the bag.

Loved the suspenders reference! Bagels and coffee make a fine pairing 👍 A major issue I have with investing in art in general is the circle-jerky market of art appraisal and value effectively set up to benefit wealthy owners of fine art. Not to mention the fact that the whole speculative aspect of the market depends on finding a greater fool to sell your art to.

@TheRealE.B.

Жыл бұрын

I've always suspected Masterworks itself as being part of the circlejerk and a mechanism for artificially creating greater fools.

@henryzhang7873

Жыл бұрын

May not necessarily be a greater fool. There are ways that people use art to dodge taxes "legally" using appraisal and donation tricks and oftentimes valuable but not top tier paintings are used to do this. Maybe Masterworks has backend ties to these people?

So appreciate that you made this video. Two things: 1) the lack of SEC oversight opens up a lot of fraud risk, which should be enough to scare retail investors away. 2) Masterworks doest even offer licensing or other revenue generating avenues from their art ownership, so you’re literally letting them take your money for 10 years to do as they please

@raul0ca

Жыл бұрын

Your expected return is somewhere between a timeshare and a class action lawsuit

@FLPhotoCatcher

Жыл бұрын

I just buy art at yard sales, ebay, etc, and hope prices go up. Little risk, and there is a large potential for an upside for some of the works. And it's much more enjoyable than sending my money to others.

@stephhhie17

Жыл бұрын

When you buy a painting you normally just get the painting and not the copyright or licensing rights to it unless the artist or their estate agrees to sell them separately. So if the artist says no or already has other licensing deals that would conflict then there's nothing they can do. If they were able to get rights I guess the LLC could have like a print-on-demand merch shop but I think at a certain point it would become a question of focus, like are you an art investment company or are you a licensing company.

@alainportant6412

Жыл бұрын

SEC is for weak losers. It doesn't mean anything and it won't protect you one bit.

@tomlxyz

11 ай бұрын

Idk, lack of regulation certainly didn't scare people from crypto

Love your videos! I wish more youtubers were as honest and transparent as you !!

When my mom died we tried to sell some pictures by a local artist that were once very valuable. Taste changed completely and we didn't find any buyers. In the end we donated these pictures to the city archive and were lucky they took them. They only took them because they depicted well known landmarks and buildings. Artwork is fickle and even experts can only guess.

@placeholderdoe

5 ай бұрын

Sorry for your loss

This is what sets you apart from the other finance youtube channels. There's other people doing good analysis, like Modern MBA and Economics Explained, but they will never bite the hand that feeds them, even if thats in the best interest of their audience. I am sure you received offers to advertise Masterworks, Established Titles, etc. - the fact that you never do shows how much you value your audience and your credibility on this platform. Please keep up the excellent work - I advise people to check out your channel anytime they want to know more about investing!

@oohhboy-funhouse

Жыл бұрын

I haven't watched Modern MBA, but EE even without the ads is sus af. Their arguments are at best sloppy. Every video will contain at least one massive contradiction that undermine everything they said that wouldn't make the grade in high school. Even in the first video I was like, did you proofread your own script? It isn't even an "Oversimplification" issue, but being straight up wrong and pedalling trickle up/laffer curve/Invisible hand/over-regulation/blah nonsense. I bailed around the minimum wage video, which was one giant holy s*** are you for real??!!. Macro and Money did a polite take-down on one of their less horrific videos, finding plenty of dirt.

@nanonymous9139

Жыл бұрын

Economics Explained doesn't provide good analysis 🤡

The Coffeezilla joke was 100% comedy GOLD! And also enormously respectful to Coffeezilla. If there weren’t enough good reasons to watch your channel already!

That upfront fee, that they really go out of their way to not tell you about, is pretty significant. I would call this malicious advertising - legal or not.

I like your work sir. Your honesty and appreciation for financial consumers deserves a subscription

As an artist I’ve heard stories about how terribly run this company is. According to rumors the people on they have hired on the sales side come from the financial industry and know very little about the art and have made wildly inaccurate claims when they approach larger investors. Also fakes are a huge problem. I heard it estimated that up to 50% of Art in museums are faked or mis attributed. While that may be high there are plenty of stories of people buying an artwork for hundreds of thousands of dollars only to find out it was a fake or stolen and losing the entire value of the artwork. It’s a super risky investment. There are a reason collecting is only for the wealthy. They are the only people who can afford to take such risks.

I looked into Masterworks a year or two ago. My BS meter quickly hit the red zone. I think your analysis is spot on.

@errhka

10 ай бұрын

That 11% up front and then the 1.5% management fee was the largest red flag to me in this video. My money is safer in an index fund and there's no amount of time I have to 'wait' for me to earn back those percentage differences cutting into it

@vincent67239

9 ай бұрын

@@errhka”My money is safer in an index fund”-this is almost a universal truth, lol. 100% of my portfolio is in index funds. Nothing actively managed, no crypto, no scams

Finally someone putting in the work to bring some clarity on this questionable investment opportunity. Thank you! Respectable KZreadrs who took the money - please take notice.

Thank you for bringing the other side of the investing scene to those that may not be savy in such fields. Appreciate the effort to be fair and transparent. KZread ads by influencers seems to be stretching things a bit and too good to be true most times as it is.

I started writing a comment on Kings and Generals channel about their endorsement of Masterworks, but gave up because I couldn‘t articulate my concerns properly. You‘ve presented it perfectly. When financial products get so much marketing even on non-finance channels, it‘s a clear red flag.

Great video! So I actually joined Masterworks, and invested $10,000 with them, across two pieces of art back in November 2021. You're right, after multiple conversations with their representatives, the "True-up" cost was never mentioned, and it was only after my investment did I find the language within their filings. The point in the video where you touched on the "survivorship bias" that can make the index returns seem better than they are is a great point, one that I didn't think about it. Since I bought shares in those art pieces, they haven't been sold, but they have been apprised, and apparently, their value hasn't gone up. Granted, the stock market indices are in the red since that date, so technically my art pieces are "out-performing" for the time being. Granted, it's all illiquid and based on an appraisal, so who knows? At the end of the day, I decided to throw some money into it out of interest, it represents

@korirdan1135

Жыл бұрын

Seems scammy and very risky

@poetryflynn3712

Жыл бұрын

Honestly, a quick google search will find pretty much exactly the same thing everyone else has said. Masterworks is a realistically safe, although, not perfect, investment. They openly do tell you that investing is for those who are more wealthy, will be locked up for years, and will take years before you get your investment back. They are clearly not trying to scam anyone, and it's honestly a really good idea.

@sp123

Жыл бұрын

You're better off putting 5-10k in 2018 Topps Chrome Shohei Ohtani cards (parallels /50 or rarer)

@sp123

Жыл бұрын

Wow my advice aged well didn't it 😎

@KamikazeCash

Жыл бұрын

@@sp123elaborate

Great video! Also worth pointing out that, of the majority of art owners who buy for the 'joy of ownership', many do in fact sell when they need to - just that it's usually under the table. Sometimes, even in legitimate sales, a big chunk of the price is actually paid in black to the dealer, and none of this is going to be able to find its way to an investor on Masterworks who can only receive a portion of the sale when it's legitimate, but not from the rest of the iceberg.

The first time I saw an ad for this, I realized that they knew nothing about the art market, collectors, or connoisseurs. The art market is so random and depends on trendiness and zeitgeist. It will never dependably make anyone money. Every once in a while, there'll be a crazy sale of something, but that's the exception, not the rule. Most art sales are small. And collectors don't collect for the investment. They want to see and live with the art. The ownership, not the sale, is the important thing.

With how eloquent this guy is, he could easily be swimming in money if he really tried to grift people, but he instead tries to educate people on financial realities, being down to Earth and clearly explaining the inherent shortcomings of risky investments in a way laypeople can understand. Class.

Thank you for covering masterworks. I've been seeing a lot of good youtubers being sponsered by them and it really rubs me the wrong way. Their platform seems really sketchy and misleading trying to promote a non-market illiquid asset as a great investment opportunity, oversimplifying the caveats and advertising to the common masses who wont know any better. You deserve some donations

Also reminds me of those fractional collectibles. Be it video games, sports cards or other cards... Somehow feels insane to invest in fractional increase of value. Specially in this market.

Huge respect for Richard’s candour ! ✊🏻 Lots of YT gurus are advertising masterworks as if it’s something worth investing with their own bs inputs to their audiences, shame on them!

Finally someone respectable doing a breakdown of this platform. I was getting worried how many financial and business KZreadrs are pushing this platform to their audience and often in sneaky ways promoting it in the same breath when talking about inflation and upcoming bad times. I understand why otherwise rational and respectable finance youtubers accept the sponsorship (and probably they cannot do a thorough breakdown due to their contracts), but I honestly respected you much more now that you almost certainly refused a sponsorship deal with them and instead decided to warn your audience. Keep up the good work Richard ❤

@mireiagomez

Жыл бұрын

totally, yesterday i was watching a video in one of thses channels and masterworks promotion got in. A lot of comments were critisizing their advertisement and the intentions of the channel for continuing advertising them

Thank you. I was tempted over a year ago to allocate into masterworks and after the phone interview and further digging I was concerned about their fees and the veracity of their claims. It just bugged me immensely that many financial KZreadrs are dishing this out to their subscribers as a great opportunity. Thank you for you honest review.

Your honesty is so refreshing! With most financial content, it's exhausting to constantly parse the truth from the agenda.

This video is pretty much what one could call public service. Thank you!

Thanks for covering this! The advertised returns seemed too good to be true and the obviously fake waitlist was a red flag. Yet I hear creators I enjoy advertising for them.

Another great reason for wealthy individuals to own art: avoid paying taxes and money laundering.

@nameunknown1519

Жыл бұрын

Exactly! I doubt MW will own any of the “valuable” art. Those pieces are owned by rich people and sold to other rich people at inflated prices with each sale for unspecified reasons that have nothing to do with the value of the art.

@wintermint7

Жыл бұрын

I’m glad someone else said it!

@na976

Жыл бұрын

@@nameunknown1519 this is exactly the point of masterworks. There is no true value to these things, it’s all made up. They can drive up the price of a work of art in the dark (easy to do when you’re whole industry operates in extreme privacy) and then sell this inflated finger painting to the common idiot through masterworks because looks how much it has increased in value recently! What a great investment! Now instead of merely getting a tax write off the rich guy can offload his inflated garbage to the Everyman and get paid cash, the auction house gets paid cash, and masterworks collects their cut too. Now you the investor are saddled with a manipulated asset that will never sell for as much as it was bought for, And you even have to keep paying their annual fees forever!

@dingfeldersmurfalot4560

Жыл бұрын

Money laundering for sure.

@__Wanderer

Жыл бұрын

@@nameunknown1519 indeed ;) a not so hidden loophole for the wealthy that's for sure.

Very good report Richard. Evenhanded, thorough, and entertaining as always!

Every generation needs to be taught the lesson that things which sound too good to be true usually are.

@kenon6968

6 ай бұрын

We need to teach it multiple times a generation, daily affirmations

Thank you. I think MasterWorks is worse than Established Titles. There are just some basic problems like the art market being notoriously opaque, auction houses getting 10%-15% of each sale, and upkeep costing 1%-2% every year. Plus you need a lot of education or 10 years experience to really reliability judge art prices.

@Unknown-jt1jo

Жыл бұрын

Masterworks is much more harmful than Established Titles. Anyone with an ounce of common sense probably suspects that you can't *really* become a Scottish lord by forking over $40. By contrast, Masterworks on the surface seems like it could actually be legit. I can easily see people pouring thousands of dollars into it.

Thank you for this! I cringe every time I hear a KZread influencer promote this "investment" without talking about any of the MANY risks involved!

Thank you! It disappoints me that David Stein of the "Money for the Rest of Us" podcast has been recklessly advertising Masterworks, without a word of caution. It's irresponsible and shows he doesn't have the integrity of a fiduciary. What gets me about Masterworks sponsorships is, the KZreadrs and podcasters say something like, "And Masterworks has given me a special code you can use to get to the front of a long waiting list." Yeah, right. If everyone can get to "the front of the line", then there is no line. Red flag!

@mipmipmipmipmip

5 ай бұрын

Basically Masterworks functions as a filter to remove channels with bad due diligence from your subscription list

One of the big things that has struck me about masterworks is that it has a similar structure to a ton of private equity. They have the ability to hold indefinitely, only mark to market at sale, etc.

I’ve been really bothered by this sponsor, thanks for covering it. Respectable channels have been pushing this “better than stock” investment

This is why you're one of the very few finance youtubers that I am subscribed to! Also, my mum works in insurance and she says that keeping fine art is expensive, because of how easy it is to damage it, so I am not even surprised by the extra fee 11%. Basically the lesson of this is yet again: read the terms and conditions 😅

Thank you for this video. I spoke to them 2 years ago and asked very basic questions. The response was, "Are you a lawyer or something?" I am not, and as I mentioned, the questions were basic. My conclusion was that I didn't want my money tied up for an unspecified amount of time with less control of said money as compared to a brokerage.

Glad to have someone finally look into this, been curious myself. thanks

I have always found them at best extremely highly questionable. I am a collector of very specific items and I know in fact that what I collect has vertically no resale value. Upon my death my collection that I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on in all likelihood will be thrown into a dumpster to be hauled away to a land fill but I really could not care less. I collect what I collect because I like owning them and I enjoy having my collection. My greatest fear is that my house will burn down as my home insurance provider out right told me that my collection will not be covered at all and they wont cover it with any amount of extra premium.

@realleon2328

Жыл бұрын

What items do you collect?

@noleftturnunstoned

Жыл бұрын

Tell us what you collect!!

@anglaismoyen

11 ай бұрын

​@@realleon2328Funko pops obviously

These objective reviews and deeps dives into the small letters at the bottom is why I follow this channel. No hype, no moon, real numbers with feet kept on the ground

Subscribed based on “exploring the SEC filings and talking to the company’s representatives”. Not the highest bar but it’s more than most people I’ve seen these days commit to.

Phenomenal job on this video! Thanks for putting this out there. Will be sharing. 🤓

Thanks Richard! Masterwork and people promoting it immediately gave me super fishy vibes.. hearing you articulate this with some great research was amazing … I always was super worried by the claims of 20/25% per year returns, and having outperformed the stock market.. which is such a red flag

The point of a painting is that it is an object you can own, hang on your wall, display at museums of your choosing, etc. It's not an object you can share with people. This is like buying shares of classic cars, or houses, it doesn't make sense, because the value of the object relies on the fact that you can have it all for yourself, that is why people buy them. You can't share those things. You can share the profits of a company, but you can't possibly share a literal object with thousands of other people.

I was never interested in putting any money in Masterworks, but I really appreciated your explanation of how it works. Thank you. Subscribed.

This level of research for a KZread video is insane and appreciated. Thank you :)

Yeah, I used to work for a Chinese billionaire that collected art, the art prices that are reported are overinflated. So, if Masterworks has a really crafty group, maybe it can make you some money, but also maybe not. Additionally, that liquidation issue seems super scary to me, especially when low-risk interest rates like CDs are already so high...

@katrinabryce

Жыл бұрын

The value of an artwork or similar trophy asset depends on what the second highest bidder is prepared to pay for it, it is very subjective because it is about how much they value the ability to sit and look at it, and how much spare cash they have for such luxuries. Due to various sanctions, the Russian oligarchs are out of the market, and that must have some impact on valuations. Of course that could be considered a buying opportunity, but either way, that is a very big risk.

Thank you for this very qualitative video! You are of public interest !

Such a well scripted, researched and reasoned video. Love your work mate

After watching your video, my trust and respect for masterworks has increased A LOT. It went from zero to barely any.

I go to a lot of estate auctions, and the market is flooded with nice looking artworks that just don't sell for more than the raw materials used to make the painting. It's not a joke that in almost all cases, you have to be dead to start making good money as an artist. How can you tell which artwork will skyrocket in value? You can't, unless you're buddies with a major gallery and know which works they're about to promote.

@DJCannon5

Жыл бұрын

RN.. One of masterworks featured artist Wong is a guy who recently offed himself and now they bought it from his family for 5mil

“Expenses” = Buying champagne for potential clients in hopes that they buy the painting. So essentially Masterwork charges you for their “business” expenses as an investor. You finance all their art “orgies” and they keep most of the money.

@gabrielamaral978

Жыл бұрын

It might be true, but your comment looks like just speculation

@noleftturnunstoned

Жыл бұрын

Define "most"

I respect you for talking about sponsors, it is nice having someone reviewing them from a no biased opinion

Yes, I am soooo glad you did this!! I have always questioned MW as a successful investment strategy v. some highly speculative investment promoted by influencers. Everyone needs to focus on due diligence before they give up their money.

The other problem with the artwork price index; money laundering is huge in the fine art industry and may skew the index.

@jajajinks1569

Жыл бұрын

That was always my red flag - from my understanding, a lot of the huge increases in price for art are for tax donations purposes for the rich & money laundering. It wouldn’t make any sense for retail investors to get the same returns for an ordinary sale.

@no1no1655

Жыл бұрын

This sketchy aspect of the bizness is rarely even considered. Buffett and Munger do none of this. So I'm out

The fraud and collusion potential for MW procurers is also a massive hidden risk. If I were a MW exec, the temptation to enter into a secret deal with a private collector to buy an art piece for a highly inflated price for a life changing kickback would be preeeetty high. At the end of the day, all I would be doing on the surface is adding a lucrative investment onto the books and maybe even getting a bonus for job well done from the company. And even then, who knows, maybe that artwork generates actual interest by selling so high and will end up being sold for a profit 5 years down the road? Earning me another bonus... Having gotten a taste, I probably would never stop. Until the entire house of cards collapsed... If there is no regulation, this kind of thing is bound to happen sooner or later (probably already happening).

@bigdreams5554

7 ай бұрын

It's just as scammy as any crypto sh!t coin, just more socially acceptable

Love that you were able to go through all this info. because it would have taken me a long time. Masterworks seemed enticing to promote, but I will be passing on promoting them. Thank you!

Finally someone is talking about Masterworks. From the beginning I sensed something was off with that business model, and after the FTX collapse I got extra suspicious. Thank youfor covering this topic Mr. Richard Bagel.