A major reason why the Jedi lost everything is due to the fact that their doctrine basically prohibited them from adapting to different situations.

@stickthelanding4785

13 күн бұрын

Their holding onto old beliefs along with being spread out left them to weak and vulnerable as well.

@macwelch8599

13 күн бұрын

@@stickthelanding4785 true

@starkillerab1582

13 күн бұрын

They’re all (Old Jedi Order) Weaklings for that

@westwardstar1686

13 күн бұрын

But that was the point. Palps placed the Jedi in a awkward situation and let them cook. Almost all jedi had their morals/code challenaged while on the frontlines. Making difficult decisions with lasting consequences. Palpatine wanted to drag the jedi threw the mud with an exhaustive war before purging them. Stands to reason why many jedi became disillusioned with it all i.e. Barriss Offee, Pong Krell, Malicos etc

@champ7139

13 күн бұрын

i mean 1,000 years of peace, i'd imagine they toned down going to war with the sith and ended up gradually be part of politics and other areas where they were needed which made them blind for what would happen to them.

“Hey, this us the best special forces and clandestine infiltrators and operatives invaluable…” “Let’s make them traditional military commanders!” Even before Palp tricked the Jedi to be war leaders… the rationality should be obvious

@StephanePoirierGaming

13 күн бұрын

same thing happened to the US Army Rangers in the Battle of the Bulge. Lets have them occupy fox holes that have been shelled for days on end resulting in in regular army brigades to be rendered combat ineffective instead of having the Rangers sneak through the wood and take out the German Artillery. Great plan!

I suspect that the issues during the Clone War era were partially caused by the 1000 years of relative peace in the galaxy and the long-established doctrine of the Jedi order. While the new Jedi order was practically building everything from scratch. This meant that the new Jedi order was a lot more flexible and willing to try new things. Some of which parallel things from the old republic era, some are similar to the Clone Wars era, and some is completely new.

@Spike-vp2cx

13 күн бұрын

Also the Galactic Civil War ended 6 years before the Vong war began vs the Clone Wars following 1000 years of peace.

@JohnNathanShopper

13 күн бұрын

Yes, this

A big criticism of Legends has been how it contradicts itself so much. Those same critics fail to realize that most Legends material came out before the prequels and had very little input from George Lucas. Personally, I love Legends and cry that we will never get a continuation of Jaina's story. Edit: Thank you for going back and covering some Legends material.

@cloudmaster182

13 күн бұрын

I think a lot of ppl know that, it's just a pros vs cons kinda deal imo Also there were like conflicting ideas on how things like the force worked, characters personalities etc aside from just continuity issues. The authors disagreed w each other constantly

@emzonik8851

13 күн бұрын

It's obvious, but although nobody is to blame for those exact reasons, an issue remains of how to reconcile pre-prequel and post-prequel EU lore in-universe. It has been mostly resolved quite well, but some problems were left ambiguous.

@camarofan2008

13 күн бұрын

@emzonik8851 this. Once the prequels came out, the authors had to insert more lore to not alienate newer EU readers. I fell into that category, but I found myself liking the pre-prequel lore more after reading more and more.

The NJO Jedi also operated much more like a special forces unit while the prequel Jedi operated like officers in the regular military. A good example of this difference is how the NJO treated the voxin queen mission vs how the prequel council treated the Citadel mission. For the NJO’s mission, a team of experienced & talented Jedi were sent behind enemy lines with the only non-force users on the team being YVH battle droids to infiltrate a Yuuzhan Vong base & kill a high value enemy asset. On the other hand, the prequel council sent a few Jedi as well as a bunch of standard clone troopers behind enemy lines to infiltrate a place designed to imprison rogue Force users. If the mission objective was really so important, then they should have deployed a team made up of only Jedi & some clone commandos. The NJO’s council gave the individual Jedi of the order much greater autonomy than the prequel council did. I’m guessing that it’s at least partially due to the fact that from the very inception of the NJO, the Jedi (along with the galaxy as a whole) have been at nearly constant war for decades.

@champ7139

13 күн бұрын

thank you great point. I imagine Ek was talking in a way for people to have debates, but the NJO had to face constant problems since it's inception like you said while the prequel jedi have been in peace for hundreds of years leading them to have a hand in politics and other areas. We had kotor and swtor where jedi and sith had ideas that were cool and creative because they too were at war in those times.

@dogloversrule8476

13 күн бұрын

@@champ7139 exactly, it would be interesting to see what would have happened with the NJO if it were to also go through a period of relative peace like the old order did following the Ruusan Reformations.

@davantebarbain3216

13 күн бұрын

One of the reason the jedi of the clone wars era were so handicapped was due to two major factors outside of the jedi counsel 1 was obviously Palpatine manipulating both sides of the war which depending on the battle or situation could lead to victory or defeat like one non canon story that best shows it is in the darkhorse comics a jedi that befriended palps brought up testing the senate to see if what dooku said was true he mentions this to palps only for his next mission to on what was supposed to be a lightly defended planet. Turned into a huge ambush that wiped out his whole brigade/regiment and as he died he realized Palpatine was the sith master as he was the only one told because he didn't get to tell the council if i remember correctly. Secondly Palpatine manipulation of the war for the jedi it was like adding buffs and nerfs for the jedi like as was stated the cidital mission either a team of republic commandos or arc troop specific team would've been optimal. Because if i remember correctly the only reason so many clones went on that mission was because they weren't aware of the condition of tarkin and even piel and the other hostages even then honestly if they had set the formation up so 1 jedi in the front,1 in the middle, and 1 towards the the rear a simple force push or pull would've honestly not only saved the clones but also would've prevented alot of blunders that lead to the mission being compromised.

@davantebarbain3216

13 күн бұрын

This part 2 but the second reason and this definitely is a legends type of issue is which is the rise of dark jedi which were jedi who thought the jedi were wrong to participate in the war and so defected to dookus side believing the jedi to be corrupted the dark jedi were primarily jedi knights and padwans with jedi masters being rare. The reason i pointed them out was because durning the height of the war by the time the council or jedi master caught on or could accurately sense the presence of the dark side those individuals had either been giving info for sometime,had access to tactical info for their regiment or region,and the ability to sabotage republic war efforts on various scales and the biggest one is they can spread and corrupt other padwans and apprentices.

@MandalorV7

13 күн бұрын

Other big difference between the New Jedi Order and the Clone Wars Jedi is that many of Luke's first students were adults who had had their own life experiences. The Clone Wars Jedi for the most part had been raised mostly from childhood to strictly follow the Jedi Council's will and trust in their wisdom.

Of course obi wan was wasted. With all the BS Anakin and Ahsoka pulled? Willing to bet the only time he was sober was when he had to meet Satine.

@Blimbus-Blombo

13 күн бұрын

Did you know that Obi Wan was originally going to be a clone? Kind of like Luuke in the books. Obi Wan, or OB1 literally meant Original Body One.

@davidgeslani48

12 күн бұрын

That's why he always has a bottle of Cerveza Cristal handy

@VikingKong.

11 күн бұрын

Deathsticks for sure.

My theory about why the jedi didn't use these techniques during the prequels is as follows: There had been about one to two thousand years without any large scale conflicts in the galaxy. That meant when the Clone Wars broke out, the Republic was strapped for experienced military commanders. While they did utilize officers from planetary militias and defense fleets, the jedi were very much thrust into the role of commanding and leading the clone troopers because of their force-sensitivity. As there are thousands of planets across the galaxy where the conflict would be taking place, the jedi would have to be parceled out and separated into very small numbers to get appropriate coverage. This meant that a warzone might have one jedi at the most, maybe five if it was extremely important. Nowhere near enough concentration for an effective battle-meditation or other tactics. In other words, the jedi needed to be everywhere at once, meaning that they couldn't use units with larger numbers of jedi and therefore a lot of the force-sensitive strategies were useless. (This was also intentional on the part of Darth Sidious/Palpatine to keep the jedi isolated and unable to help each other when Order 66 was activated.)

Lucas and Filoni just never have cared about the "war" part of Star Wars as much. The old expanded universe had a lot more military fiction influence where the prequels all the way to most New Canon lacks

I think you'll find it was the clones who wasted the Jedi generals.

Not to be that guy, but this is the kind of stuff I love hearing about, rather than the current TV shows or whatever random drama SW has found itself in. Would love to hear your takes on Halo, Stargate, Battlestar, etc and all of those incredible universes. I mean, we’re all nerds here right?

@nathanshkopiak9060

13 күн бұрын

Exactly, I’ve been really bored of it all, and haven’t watched a video of his in a while

@ventusvindictus

13 күн бұрын

I'd love to see more BSG and Warhammer 40K, too.

@Blimbus-Blombo

13 күн бұрын

@@ventusvindictuswhat’s BSG? Battlestar?

@cloudmaster182

13 күн бұрын

Tbh I love the shiwsnfornthe most part, but it's these kinds of deep dive, almost academic/philosophical discussions about star wars that I love the most

The Gendy Tartokofsky micro clone wars series did a better job of showing how to use jedi in battle

Wasn’t it part of Palpatine’s plan to spread the Jedi out specifically so they couldn’t not feed off of and build up one another? He knew that they were stronger together so he ensured a wide conflict where the Jedi had to separate and lead large number of clones in groups of 2 or 4. Seem to remember that being stated in Legends.

@admiralcalvert

11 күн бұрын

My thoughts exactly

seeing your videos always make my days better

The high republic jedi frequently use these Starfighter tactics. They use this to great effect against the Nihl in light of the Jedi.

I think one of the main reasons why large groups of Jedi were not put together in the prequel era is because fighting together with a team long term would encourage a lot of camaraderie and would lead to many Jedi developing strong attachments to other Jedi which could be used to turn them to the dark side. It seems to me as if the Jedi order of the prequel era is heavily based upon the fear of the dark side and trying to prevent anyone from having a reason to turn to the dark side. It seems to me that they were around so long in peace and were thought of very highly by many people that they assumed the only enemy that would cause them any trouble was the dark side and therefore most of what they did was to prevent the dark side from having powerful users even if it was at the cost of a less effective strategy against the droids. They also probably avoided large groups because on Genosis in Episode 2 they had a large portion of their Jedi overwhelmed by the numbers of the droids and it would be far less costly if 1 Jedi got overwhelmed than if 100 did.

I thought master oppa rancisis used battle meditation. Unless he was only in the Clone Wars magazine, which I'm not sure if it's still Canon or not.

Finally, a lore video again it’s been so long

Havent seen notification from you in a long time

This stuff of coordinating battles through the force even used to apply beyond the Jedi as the original Thrawn trilogy explained the Empire's loss at Endor with Palpatine's death who influenced his fleet with the force without the Star Destroyers' captains like Pelleaon even realizing it. When Palpatine died and his connection to the fleet broke, chaos broke out and the Rebels used that advantage. Very interesting concept to also fill that plothole of RotJ how the Rebels were able to beat the remaining imperial fleet after the destruction of the Death Star II. It really seems like that concept was mostly abandoned after the Prequels as I never heard/read of that in newer media.

Its interesting that you talk about this cuz in the high republic books the jedi often link together. Happens early on in the first book and I really liked that representation

@Hello-bi1pm

13 күн бұрын

So it's just George Force vs EU Force. Recently he said nobody understands the Force but him.

I have been reading the New Jedi Order for nearly the last year and have been loving it. I am about a third to a quarter of the way through Destiny’s Way and can’t wait to finish the series.

During the prequels, is Yoda using battle meditation? We don't see him on the front lines that often. He's usually commanding from a distance

@Blimbus-Blombo

13 күн бұрын

I haven’t heard it mentioned in canon. Of course based on the era battle meditation is either pretty common or really rare (like in KOTOR)

@stars9084

13 күн бұрын

He’s supposed to have used it on Kashyyk

Yes, Stackpole and Aaron Aliston set up Jedi pilots and soldiers so much better.

When i first saw the prequel trilogy i had the impression that the jedi order of the old republic relied more on their sheer fighting skills and lightsabers soo as to not abuse them and end up becoming another power-hungry sith which made me think for a time that siths were stronger force users than the jedi. it didn't help in the slightest that the sith used force powers more frequently and in more cunning ways (like i think dooku used it to throw his lightsaber and use it as a frisbee of doom) and that by nearly the end of the prequels palpatine outright ditches his lightsabers in favour of relying entirely on telekinesis and force lightning

A major aspect of this is also the fact the NJO were much more detatched from their government, neither party wanted control of the other at first due to deniability and disorder.

honestly in my option legends stories wore created by people who truly loved star wars and made use of what lore they had and could get approved while disney just get to make whatever they want to fit the story so in a sense there a lack of loving creativities and more of a necessary creative due to the need to fill the bs they push now i see disney jedi have been nerffed hugely but its fan option now which is better or worse i feel we lost out when legend lore was thrown to the side for disney canon

@leekah9981

13 күн бұрын

I agree with your thoughts... I thought we would get the Yuzhang Vhong but noo we get the edgy first order.

@KingOfDaCrest

13 күн бұрын

@@leekah9981 sad part is disney just hate money we the fans/customers we are the key to successful star wars and they refuse to listen to what we want like they know what we want better then we do 😑

@leekah9981

13 күн бұрын

@@KingOfDaCrest I am tired of them twisting the force and the jedi, and I am tired of watching the acolyte that shat on me for being men and all they get a sith is just a Asian half naked man to show the dark side? How many women in the Expanded university have decent women? Leia Organa, Mara Jade Skywalker, Abeloth. But noo they want women representation. I just waiting the acolyte to end so I could just close my love for a genre that been with my family for years.

@KingOfDaCrest

13 күн бұрын

@@leekah9981 they just don’t know what do to they have people in charge who hate everything lucus and creatives who can do whatever they want so all they do it pump out this version of star wars that appeals to a wider new audience of new fans blah blah while getting rid of existing fans and piggy backing off what you said legends had amazing female characters most of the jedi grandmasters in the lore have been females with some of the most broken force abilities all female who wore most importantly wrote well into the story

@leekah9981

13 күн бұрын

@@KingOfDaCrest this current star wars show to me, it's a fanfic cater to women that likes Fifty shade of Grey. Not the people that read the books, not the ones that got games about star wars like KTOR. But cater to lunatics that think that making star wars to have a Mary sue women is better, like Rey Palpatine that got all the force stuff? Every women in the EU have worked their way to reach where they were. Heck even Luke Skywalker wife was a former Palpatine sith assassin before she truly fell in love with him. But noo the movie show him to be a bitter old man stuck in a middle of nowhere to suck milk from a alien cow?

Factions compared idea sci fi insect swarm. Such as Tyranids, arachnids, Zerg, rachni, terminids.

@thescruffinator8830

13 күн бұрын

pretty cool idea

glad you still have that outro lol

Dude that’s kinda the point… they were never meant to be generals.

Nice vid Eck!

Subscribed

Finally , After a long time, an Eckhartsladder video i wanted to see😂🎉❤

I miss Galactic Versus

The only battle meditations user I recall in the clone wars era is Oppo Rancisis. And that was in a comic explaining why he disappeared between episode 2 and 3

My biggest gripe with the PT was that the conflict was only 3 years long, which still makes no sense to me this day.

Not relevant to this video, and not really an #AskEcks question, but I remember an early trailer for Clone Wars that had a bunch of Mandalorians in it. What I remember is a door opening and showing them but that may be slightly off. Thinking now I wonder if it was clones but I'm positive it was multi coloured armour. Does anyone have any recollection of this or did my mind make it up?

#askeck can you please make a video going over the greatest military commanders in Star Wars from all eras & all factions?

Ok, that editors note pisses me off because they misinterpreted everything

the power of shid, the power of fard, the power of caming

@Blimbus-Blombo

13 күн бұрын

The power of bleach, the power of ammonia, the power of mustard

Thanks for continuing to educate on SW storytelling.

It's honestly interesting to consider that this might be indicative of the era. The Jedi of the Clone Wars not using these techniques may be a symptom of the decline of the order, and perhaps their reduced ability to use the Force courtesy of the imbalance caused by the war contributed too...

This is unrelated to the video but I have a question regarding star destroyers: why don't all ships have turrets on their belly's. I mean because this is the air/space and not the water, it adds another side to put guns on.

This discussion makes me want to now see a movie in the similar style to the 300 and have it be about defending the attack on the jedi temple during 66

The connections sounds like the Protoss from StarCraft 2 they share a mental connection or like the Taelon’s commonality from Earth final conflict.

I don't think Palpatine would have wanted to encourage all-Jedi or mostly-Jedi squadrons. He wanted them scattered and divided, surrounded by clones ready to kill them. An all-Jedi squadron working together would have been much harder to properly Order 66.

Luke built his Legends academy from Ossus and based his order's traditions from it. So the bad rules&traditions of the High Republic is never known by Luke since Palpy wiped it out when he took over the Jedi Temple. The holocrons recovered from Palpy's collection are ancient and not from the Coruscant Jedi Order but from the really Old Republic era like Ossus&Tython. Don't remember if Luke was able to recover any of Jacosta Nu's collection that she squirrelled away after the fall of the Jedi Order.

In Yoda's era, Jedi were too used to being on their own and had to get used to depending on and using Troopers. Plus, Sidiuos wanted them alone and up front where the Troopers could kill them. And Jedi were already seen as leaders and loners, so it was... easier to put them in the front as Generals. In Luke's era, he'd had to constantly depend on those around him and thus trained his own Jedi to be team players who could--when needed--operate alone. Plus he'd started out as a squad member and eventually became a "general" by a mix of his own worth from experience and the fact he was the only recognized Jedi for several years. And as another commenter said: Luke and his Jedi never had the structured organization of the Old Order, and were constantly learning and adapting.

i mean to be honest....the founder of the new jedi order was a fighter pilot (Luke)

#AskEck just wanted to ask, if you could bring back some background music to your videos :) Watched some of your older videos again, it was just an amazing vibe 💯

I Jedi is still one of my favorite books. They just released the full audio book just a few months ago.

I wonder if it's intentional or if it was just George being George. Who had any expectation of Jedi being good military leaders? They're monks cross trained in law enforcement and politics.

Yeah! Just had a thought after listening to this, why didn't Obi-wan use a force push to get rid of the droids that attacked his fighter?

As Matthew Stover put it, "The Sith had changed; the Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves. They had become new, while the Jedi had spent that same millennium training to re-fight the last war." That's why the Jedi generals failed because they did not adapt their tactics to the strengths and weaknesses of the people they were now leading into battle, who unlike in the New Sith Wars, were not themselves Jedi, and their opponents were not the goth kids with laser swords charging to their deaths that the Republic Troopers had no problem fighting while standing out in the open with no cover.

I always got the impression George, while he oversaw pretty much everything in the Expanded Universe to some degree, didn't really vibe with it. Battle Meditation was always more of an EU thing, so it doesn't surprise me that much that George wouldn't incorporate it into the Clone Wars. Plus the prequel trilogy was intended to make the Jedi look ineffectual.

Where did Eck's background music go...😢

The prequel era jedi were so ill equipped to be generals because they had doctrinally been peaceful and peace focused, so they did not practice or teach things like battle meditation. They may even have seen such use of the force as darkside. They were weak in their stagnation, and that has been an underlying theme in many prequel era works. It was mostly the unorthodox jedi and padawans who survived order 66. That should tell you a lot.

Dear editor: SO TRUE.

Two words for you: Martial De-escalation. War is tough, rough and emotional, and the views of the jedi at the end of the sith wars seem to show great hesitation when it comes to ever participating in one again.

2:49 ok whoever made this image did NOT have to do Ahsoka's face like that lmao

@kingofredleopards

11 күн бұрын

I was thinking the exact same thing 😂

I know you dropped the high republic but this exact thing you described happens with Jedi vectors and them all being connected through the force and fighting as one

@CedarHunt

13 күн бұрын

Ew, high republic. 🤢

@true128

13 күн бұрын

@@CedarHunt we all enjoy diffrent things you can just go on with your day

I agree that these things shouldve been shown more during the prequel era. It would be really cool to see tactics like this on-screen While it is a bummer, i guess it works thematically by showing a contrast between the more open-minded, free-thinking version of the Jedi post Endor vs the more rigid, rule-based Jedi that existed during the Clone Wars

Totally agree as apart from the odd use of battle meditation used during the clone wars and experienced gained through fighting the Jedi sucked as generals. Compared to Luke’s Jedi during the vong war, who came up with hoards of new weaponry, single handedly jammed the enemy’s coordinators in battle and provided elite squadrons and battle meditation to the new republic forces throughout. No that’s soldiering.

Note to the Editor: No, bad dog!

The Jedi of the Old Republic definitely fought more like what you are describing. Battle Meditation helped Jedi teams, and even non-Force sensitives, coordinate to a higher degree on the battlefield or in space, and there was more of a martial culture amongst the Jedi. I think the 1000 years of peace and transformation of the Jedi into policing and peace keeping forces probably made them more prone to see their role as coordinator rather than fighter. Plus, many grunt Jedi died in the Arena on Genosis, with the ones who were left being those who were more skilled and therefore also more likely to be in a command position. This rigidity and lack of adaptability is one of the key themes of the Jedi downfall, so I wouldn't necessarily say it was wasted. To me, the biggest tragedy here is not how the Jedi were portrayed in the prequels, but how much they wasted the potential of Luke in the sequels by essentially throwing away his entire arc as a successful Jedi Grandmaster. I know it's old dried blood at this point and I realize Disney wanted to go it's own way, but they really did Luke dirty in the sequels.

Lmmfao the editors note

Jedi aren't really suited to lead as generals and special ops works better for them. But Palpatine ensures that all Jedi fight and lead so they get blindsided by Order 66.

I believe that was the point.

One thing I find intriguing is that the Jedi pooling their power is at once both an echo and inversion of Darth Bane's philosophy of the "rule of two". Battle meditation and whatnot amplified the strength of the Jedi, while the rule of two consolidated power at the cost of that interconnectedness and versatility. Yes, the Jedi could not necessarily be everywhere at once, but by consolidating all that dark power in a select few, the rule-of-two Sith had to rely on the Machiavellian long game, shaping events behind the scenes since they didn't have the numbers to act openly as the Jedi did. In a way, it showcases how Bane's rule of two was, much like fascism, a cowardly loser ideology, since consolidation of power at the expense of numbers meant that the Sith had to hide and scheme, while their rivals had strength in numbers and cooperation and not necessarily being Nazi scum. Perhaps, going forward in the new era, the next generation of dark-side force-users won't fall into the trap of the rule of two? After all, the Night Sisters certainly don't adhere to the rule of two, right?

I always believed that it was all evidence rot the hubris of the Jedi preceding order 66. Sure, many Jedi died at Genesis, but after that almost no Jedi casualties of not occurred until order 66, even though they now served as generals and warriors, the order thought it barbaric to use such tactics and enhanced force manipulation, specialized weaponry, and fire teams of only knights or master.

ah they use the force to communicate with each other, something normal squads as we all know can't do

Oh look a positive video title for once!

List of issues with the Prequel Clone Army: 1- Designed to be self-sufficient, did not plan for Jedi within their ranks 2- Clone Army required "normal" humans for officer positions 3- 1000 years pof peace means NOBODY has any meaningful experience in Galactic Warfare 4- Decision to recruit Jedi as Generals and Planetary Security personel as the officer corps was made 5- Jedis end up being divided and forced to adapt in an environment designed without force sensitivity in mind, decreasing their effectiveness 6- Jedi Guardians lead from the front and experience higher casualty rates, leading to unprepared padawan receiving field promotions or worse the thinning of Jedi ranks 7- Jedi Consellors attempt to use their skills to better coordinate their troops, but may appear more "cowardly" to the normal human officer corps who benefit the most from the morale boost of a general leading the charge (clones are professionals and wouldn't care, although they may experience some frustration from incompetent officers/general). This may pressure them into preffering renewing attempts at diplomacy instead, since that is where they shine most, thus leaving most general positions to Jedi Guardians. 8- Propaganda efforts magnifies the impact on morale fo points #7 and #8, human officers start resenting their Jedi superiors whenever they show incompetence as generals 9- New skills developped by Jedis and apprentice are now based on warfare and generalship, which distracts from the force. They are now fully spread out throughout the clone armies to fill different roles (including field medics). The usual Jedi relations, dynamics, and hierarchy are strained as the Jedi embed themselves into the Clone army's hierarchy instead. 10- Order 66 is given at a time where the remaining Jedi Generals are the most competent ones, the ones who build trusts with their clones and have been focussed on warfare and allowed their guard to be lowered. Furthermore, human officers are ready to fill the power vacuum left behind and proved to be competent thanks to their experience, giving them extra incentive to buy into the propaganda and go along despite not being chipped like the clones were. The spreading out of force sensitives throughtout the clone army hierarchy makes it easier to dispose of them all as this prevents force-sentive beings from supporting each other through the force. Ergo, the lack of squad-based tactics for force-sentive troops was by design as Palpatine did not want the best army possible, he specifically wanted a flawed one as he planned on exploiting said flaw. Like how the vulnerable exhaust port on the Death Star was no accident.

I had always pictured clones fighting clones. War on an industrial scale from 2 or more civilizations in the galaxy. I was a little disappointed when one side was droids.

This is why I reject anything that is not Old Republic or Force Unleashed

There was a similar period after the first two *Alien franchise* films. A major explosion of expaned universe lore and stories. Particularly after that Easter Egg in Predator 2 with the Xenomorph skull on the trophy wall in the Predator ship. It was based on the assumption that Ripley and the Sullacco got back to Earth and the Xenomorph Species becoming public knowledge. And there being a lot more of them out there on other undiscovered planets and derelicts. They even had one offshoot with elephant faced Space Jockeys having ancient wars with the Predators. But most of them dealt with Interstellar Human civilisation encountering Xenonorphs more often, Xeno cults, failed attempts to harness/engineer the Xenos, and Predator hunting parties screwing up and releasing Xenomorphs (hard meat) on Human planets. And of course still hunting Humans (soft meat) who are now more formidable due to technology. And some great "get some" action with battlesuits ect. [I recommend the _Alien Tribes_ graphic novel]. There's also detailed lore about the Xenomorphs being responsible for previous Interstellar civilisations being wiped out. That's been changed due to Prometheus, with the _Black Goo_ being a mutagen made as a honey trap for organics in a previous age, during a AI android revolt against their creators. It's so useful and has so much potential.., so it's very tempting to experiment with it to improve your species or modify other species. And that inevitably leads to the species wiping itself out in a biological apocalypse. It turns out the Yatja aka Predators don't mess with it (due to believing they're already perfect?), which is how they've survived for so long. They've made it past the great filter. The Engineers didn't. And Humans are currently running smack into it.

@Hello-bi1pm

13 күн бұрын

It's interesting how the franchises with no giant lore are more healthy and less in a dead zombie state like Alien and Star Wars

Honestly, the expanded universe stuff was way better than the prequel stuff we got in the end. Using the jedi as commanders rather than special forces or shock troops makes no sense.

[Authors] "only had the actions of Yoda and Obi-Wan in the original trilogy." Here's the thing, that's all Luke had to go off of as well. So even after the prequals Luke doing his own things unlike the old Jedi order would have makes a lot of sense

I considered myself a fan of the EU and I had no freaking clue Force users were riding around in squadrons of fighters. Jesus, even in the Old Republic, when you couldn't turn the corner without tripping over 40 force users in a massive battle, each of them had personal starships capable of destroying multiple capital ships while surviving hundreds of fighters on bombers on their own. I mean come on, I know that the Old Republic generally had much better tech, but you're telling me that a dozen jedi used those tin cans against the Vong and coming out on top when they had maybe a few hundred in number? That's just begging to be wiped out.

Yeah no sxxxx Sherlock 😂, also like the GTA wasted name on😂

The prequel Jedi were generally too hidebound and spread too thin to develop and truly take advantage of these sorts of techniques.

Yeah the clone wars show missed out of doing a lot of cool stuff with the clones (clone commando books) and the jedi

The Jedi probably stagnated and devolved when the sith supposedly went extinct, and the Jedi believed in their arrogance of peace, which probably hindered them during The Clone War.

That was the whole point of the clone wars was to separate them enough and spread their focus enough yo stop them doing just that if they had been allowed to fight like that they would've steamroller the cis

jedi-specific weapons like the bomb seem antithetical to the nature of the jedi to me. trench run aside, using the force to direct crude bombs to their target seems unbecoming of a user of the force.

Ahh, so you want to put most of your 40k Army points into a single super-squad, with the remnants being just a token force of weak units. I see this a lot by players, with the biggest issue being that the super-squad can be harassed and distracted with no intent to defeat by a much smaller amount of points while the rest of the army is mopped up by a balanced force. If you only had to fight a couple fronts or battles, this might work, but the only way to wage a galaxy-wide war is to split your forces to the point where the Jedi boost the weaker clone squads across hundreds of simultaneous scenarios to try to hold as many systems and maintain a vast logistics network needed for such a large scale war.

i love the eu. thanks for talking about this eck. they wasted it...

That was the point to a eliminate them by b showing them how useless their ideology was when put to practice

The Jedi were supposed to be peacekeepers, not military officers. This was what ultimately ended them. That & their involvement with the senate that put them too close to the government.

Well, the whole point with the Clone Wars was so that the jedi would be wasted

The Jedi hadn’t fought in 1000 years before the clone wars broke out. So they had no fighting doctrine or knowledge of commanding armies which was abandoned after the Russan reformations.

👍

Yeah no shit they did. They created an entire era about war, in Star WARS, which doubled as a Darth Vader origin story and then spent TWO movies telling a story about Obi-Wan Kenobi being confused instead. If it weren't for Revenge of the Sith then the prequels would've been a complete fucking waste of the franchise.

It just seems like the clone wars era jedi were suckiest form of jedi

I wish they weren’t just used as magic problem solvers. The separatists should’ve researched more anti jedi tech.

Pretty sure it was the Clones who wasted the Jedi generals but that's just me.

I'll start with - yes. They were all wasted by the clones. Yup. Ded

still better than aall the crap coming out

Remember Disney didn't make the prequels so we can't blame them.

@xp8969

13 күн бұрын

"This ruined Star Wars" been a thing since Ep. 1

Of course they did. That was the pointto get them wasted. By droids.

It feels almost like the war was orchestrated by someone who wanted the Jedi order to fall. Why would they waste their potential as much by making every jedi responsible for a bunch of (non force sensitive) clones? Weird. 😄