Just one of many controversies in the mid-90s to mid-2000s that really stoked the "FIA-Ferrari International Assistance" fire. This isn't as bad as the Mayalsia '99 bargeboard DSQ farce, but it's up there

@freakysquirrel7218

2 жыл бұрын

Not just Ferrari, other teams too. From 1989 to mid-2000s it was controversy galore on the FIA side. Senna being DSQ at Suzuka 89, Senna sending Prost to Narnia in 90, Option 13 on the Benetton in 94: So many things the FIA handeled wrong imo

@StuntpilootStef

2 жыл бұрын

@@freakysquirrel7218 "Senna sending Prost to Narnia in 90" You mean the shadow realm?

@freakysquirrel7218

2 жыл бұрын

@@StuntpilootStef Petiton to rename the Suzuka T1 barricade into "Shadow Realm"

@chrisdavidson911

2 жыл бұрын

The bargeboards were fine, that wasn't FIAssistance, it was scrutineers not measuring something properly

@StuntpilootStef

2 жыл бұрын

@@freakysquirrel7218 I'll sign that.

As a Montoya fan I remember feeling like it was Williams/Montoya getting screwed over as he was leading the championship going into Monza. He dominated in Germany and was looking good to keep that pace going for the remainder of the season.

@jamiealder-martin9994

2 жыл бұрын

Dodgy black flag in USA hurt him badly

@Mails013

2 жыл бұрын

As a fan of Mclaren and Kimi I personally think that Kimi was screwed also as he lost a championship he deserved by 2 points.

@jonnyspa27

2 жыл бұрын

@@jamiealder-martin9994 We were sitting in turn 1 wondering why Monty got penalized when Rubens bumped him, not the other way around. Strange day…

@jamiealder-martin9994

2 жыл бұрын

@@jonnyspa27 yeah crazy watching it on tv with multiple angles didn’t make it any better

@AidanMillward

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, tyres and the iffy black flag in Indy really messed him around. He couldn’t be bothered with the politics after that and the signing Alonso pro gamer move Dennis pulled in 05 was the final straw.

This felt like a typical Mosley-era FIA power flexing to me. I know recent events haven't exactly endeared the FIA to many right now, but I think we forget just how mad some of the snap decisions were back in these days with Mosley just deciding based on his mood and that was final. The sensible thing would've been to do the "oh very clever, well done. but its banned for next year" thing like they did with DAS, Montoya never seemed as motivated after losing out in 03, think he lost a lot of faith in the system.

@GreenHornet553

2 жыл бұрын

Who could blame him tbh? Montoya had arguably one of the top 2 cars on the grid and was pulling out tremendous performances out of it against Michael Schumacher and was fingertips away from winning the Driver's Title and winning Williams the Constructor's title only to lose it because of a snap change of regulations which prevented teams from getting the most out of their cars.

@stevegillies1687

2 жыл бұрын

@@GreenHornet553 also probably didn't help that the 04 Williams was pretty bad, and the only thing that went quicker than the 05 McLaren was the smoke out of the back of it 😅😬

@caseysmith544

2 жыл бұрын

Soon after in 2005 he went for 5 seaons to NASCSR where he tried to drive the cars like they were bumper cars slamming into everyone.

@cbj4sc1

2 жыл бұрын

@@caseysmith544 Montoya was actually quite respectable in NASCAR

5:08 it was the 2015 Italian GP Fun fact Lewis was first in FP1 FP2 FP3 Q1 Q2 Q3 *And* had a Grand slam that race

@SamuelSantos_

2 жыл бұрын

Damn that is pure dominance. Kinda similar to Ricciardo in Monaco 2018, he only didn’t get a grand slam because his engine issues prevented him from getting the fastest lap.

@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1

2 жыл бұрын

@@SamuelSantos_ yup that weekend was Danny Ric at his all time best for RB weird that ended up being his last race win for RB

@AidanMillward

2 жыл бұрын

Was the car bruh.

@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1

2 жыл бұрын

@@AidanMillward Put any mediocre driver in the car and they would have done the same! (Sarcasm for anyone who didn't think it was)

@commenttorv5572

2 жыл бұрын

@@AidanMillward yes it was the car. Max showed it Hamilton was hilarious to watch all year

I remember Michelin's argument with this being that whilst yes, the sidewalls did flex a lot and more grippy rubber gets on the road that you might expect, as it is the outside sidewall flexing and rolling on to the road surface, the inner sidewall is straightening out and rolling off the surface by the same amount, therefore it's the same, or at least near enough. Did anyone ever measure the scrubbed width of a Bridgestone?

@Sirdoolan

9 ай бұрын

I would hazard a guess, based on no scientific facts, that there is frequently less than 27cm wide contact patch, and in a depression or under heavy load, sometimes more. Surely Bridgestone deformed as well? If not were they literally bricks? This was prime FIA bullshit. 3 weeks to produce a F1 tyre? They are fucking lucky they turned up.

This controversy is a bit weird in my opinion because people have this misconception that Ferrari dominated the last 3 races as a result of this tyre construction change which if you break those 3 races down, it isn't actually true. Yes Michelin was ordered to change the construction of the tyre, but I don't think it made that much difference. In Italy Montoya was challenging for the win until Frentzen got in the way allowing Michael to pull a gap, in USA Raikkonen took pole and look comfortable to take the win until the weather interfered which allowed Ferrari to put on their superior intermediate tyre which allowed Michael to win the race. Then in Japan, Montoya overtook Rubens pretty early and Rubens also had Alonso to deal with. Both Montoya and Alonso broke down which had they not done, Montoya would've easily won the race I feel.

@commenttorv5572

2 жыл бұрын

No, Michelin did not change anything. Here it is from Pierre Dupasquier. "The only thing we changed was added a clear mark on both sides of the tread, to make it more visible and the measurement easier."

@NDakovic

2 жыл бұрын

Damn son, this is a straight out demant and it seems Alright to me

cool video, i rember this well, its hard to say what exactly was behind it, its certainly odd that the issue with the Michelan tyers did not surface until the Micheilin shod cars where doing better than the Bridgestone ones so who knows

@superchacho777

2 жыл бұрын

Because Bridgestone isn't stupid and held it as their ace in the hole

@fam.hunger5244

2 жыл бұрын

Thats F1 my friend. Bridgestone and Ferrari knew that. But as everyone does in F1 they only brought this to attention when they think they needed to. And the Michelins were illegal. They built a tyre that got bigger after a few laps. Bigger than the rules allowed. As it was in the deciding stage, Ferrari and Bridgestone did what everyone would have done and always does in F1. Weaken the opposition when its necessary.

Also another thing 2003 tire rules were silly in the sense you could bring one set of Wet tires to a Grand Prix so you had to choose between intermediates, soft wets or hard wets which disproportionately affected how the cars were like in the rain It contributed to MSC win at Indy when in the damp conditions as Bridgestone brought inters as their wet tires he was 3 seconds a lap faster at some points in the damp. Also probably was a reason for how crazy the 2003 Brazilian GP was as so many drivers were caught out by the turn 3 river on the track

I still piss myself laughing when Ross Brawn told reporter, “do you have to keep laughing” . When he was speaking

Very intriguing to hear. I’m surprised Michelin continued in F1 until 2006, one year after the controversial US Grand Prix. Note: I believe you got the statistics of Michelin vs. Bridgestone in temperatures mixed up.

This was a Michelin idea that had been raced for near enough 2 and a half seasons, and Bridgestone never thought that what was going on could be done by them?! Absolutely petty for Bridgestone to inform the Scuderia and they report to the FIA… I was too young to remember this season, so any details I learn about this ordeal have me infuriated that this happened in the first place… This construction practice wasn’t illegal from San Marino ‘01 and then Summer ‘03, all of a sudden, it’s made illegal? Sounds like a mix of Bridgestone being too lazy to try and make their own version of flexi-sidewalls and Bridgestone playing the Paddock Politics game that every team loves to play…

@fam.hunger5244

10 ай бұрын

Too lazy? Bridgestone? Hardly. The reason Bridgestone didn't pursue this is simply the philosophy of tire construction, which was completely different. Michelins was a pure radial tire. Only with such a tire was it possible to build such flexible sidewalls. Bridgestone's tire was more of a cross ply tire, which requires stiff sidewalls that provide more lateral support and grip in the corners. Michelin's Radial offered more grip under acceleration and braking. So it wasn't laziness but a question of philosophy. A change of philosophy goes hand in hand with the fact that you have to find resources, of which you only have a certain amount available, and that to a considerable extent because you have a backlog. And then you can no longer develop as much in the previous area and generally run the risk of losing ground. This and the fact that Bridgestone won constantly and thus certainly no wrong philosophy pursued were the reasons why one developed such tires only late, namely at the end of 2004. There one had to, which the

This is why I love this channel. Story time is just glorious, you bring these things to life. Well done.

For me, I am ALWAYS against Mid-season rule changes or loophole covering. You only get to write the rules of the game once, you cannot start amending the rules when the game is already taking place..otherwise what is the point of the playing a game whose rules change all the time. That is why I am against TDs in the middle of the year and 2021 was an example.....TDs on flexi wings, Pitstops and tyre pressures were CLEARLY brought in to slow Red Bull down after they appeared to steal a March on Mercedes in the summer...F1 is so RIGGED sometimes

@fourutubez7294

2 жыл бұрын

F1 has always done mid season rule changes, probably because of the rate of development, so you get used to it after a while. It beats getting angry when your fave is negatively affected and visa versa.

@DarudeF1

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with changing rules/moving the goalposts in the middle of the game. Masi even did it during a race itself in Abu Dhabi!

@Olivyay

2 жыл бұрын

There's a difference, TDs are used for things that are clearly described in the rules as illegal (like flexible aero, or contravening engine regulations) to better describe how to check if the teams are respecting those rules or not. Same with tyre pressures. In this story it wasn't the same as the rules were clear and the tyres were legal, they had to change the rules to effectively ban the current construction of Michelin tyres. The ban on dynamic engine mapping changes during weekends is another example where they banned something during the season that had been perfectly legal before.

@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1

2 жыл бұрын

@@Olivyay to your last point IIRC I remember them banning it for a race in 2011 I believe it was Silverstone that year and Alonso took his only win that season Technical directive like you said I think it's fine but Michelin got stitched up in 2003 when their tires were suddenly made illegal

It was a grey area exploitied by Michelin I feel like they go done badly bearing in mind they had verbal permission from the FIA since 2001, they should have been forced to change their tires in 2004 if they were going to change the rules like they did rather than the quick fix they were forced to do. Bridgestone were just caught out by Michelin creative interpretation of the rules. Also from sources Bridgestone had the reservations about the Michelin tires from Monaco onwards but as Ferrari were coming off 3 wins in a row I'm assuming they didn't care to notify Ferrari or the FIA but till Michelin then won 5 of the next 7 GP and especially that Hungarian GP when MSC got lapped on pure performance At the end of the day it's a what if not talked about enough. Kimi was really unlucky that year with the Spain DNF caused by the car in front launch control failing, the engine failure at the Nurburgring and the turn one incident at Hockenheim. (Also Kimi Luck in Germany is truly shocking lol)

@andrewcarter9649

2 жыл бұрын

You could say the same about Montoya, engine failure whilst leading in Austria, gearbox whilst leading at Suzuka and a dubious at best penalty at Indy for having the temerity of trying to overtake a Ferrari.

Suggestion for another video-why all the major Tire/Tyre manufacturers (sans Pirelli, of course) are no longer in F1

A good engineer asks for the rules A great engineer asks how the rules are tested

I was way too young to even understand the controversy, let alone remember any of it. I turned 4 in 2003... So thanks for making this video, and others teaching me things that I could not understand or remembered from that time. Oh what a time it was to be a kid in Germany...

Interesting video as always! To be honest, I've never heard of this tire scandal until I discovered this video...

Loving these videos Aidan, keep up the good work

The only record that MSC still had & cemented his legacy that his 2002 100% podium finish in a season which in modern 20+ races would be impossible to achieve.

@julian2626

2 жыл бұрын

Verstappen came close this year, but yeah i don't think it will be easy to beat.

@ScotchPolo

2 жыл бұрын

You're taking the piss right?!? The term 'impossible' in regards to records getting beaten is throw around all too flippantly; 'impossible' records get beaten all the time.

@julian2626

2 жыл бұрын

@@ScotchPolo Can't wait to see someone get 201 race wins in the NASCAR Cup series then.

@marco_1909

Жыл бұрын

@@julian2626 unbelievable how he hasnt broken it this year despite the dominant year rb is having, that record isnt going to be broken easily.

@julian2626

Жыл бұрын

@@marco_1909 Such is racing

If you ask me. Grey areas should remain in place for the rest of the season, and patched for the following season. Like with the double diffuser and blown exhaust. If you find an advantage that isn’t sacrificing safety, then let it remain until the end of the season, and let everyone else try and copy!

Interesting topic, I really enjoy Your looks into F1. One thing I noticed about the tire war that really culminated in the 2005 US Gran Prix is that Mitchelin lost tires in other high G situations all that year but blamed the losses on something else. At Spa they were losing tires after AuRogue but blamed it on something at the chicane. Could be an interesting story to persue.

You mentioned about a period where Bridgestone's only non-Ferrari win was Fisichella at Brazil 2003... I believe Brazil 2003 is worthy of a story time... it was a race that had everything. Massive crashes, safety cars, red flag. Heartbreak for Barrichello and that controversy at the end over who won.

@AdamTheMan1993

2 жыл бұрын

Also McLaren won a few races in 2001 when they used Bridgestone tyres as well which was the first year of the Bridgestone-Michelin tyre war

To be fair, Schumi and his generation spearheaded a change in F1, that lead to him breaking a lot of records thought to be unbreakable before. His peers were certainly less focused on preparing body and mind for F1, achieved what they did much more on talent rather than physical fitness and, well, math. Although a Schumi fanboi through and through, I’d wager he wouldn’t have set such records without Ross Brawns strategic genius. That mindset is now integral to every driver, hence it was just a matter of time for someone to surpass him. The 2nd reason and even more relevant, imo, is the age a rookie enters F1 at nowadays. Schumi was around 22, when he entered his first race. Vettel and Hamilton won their first titles at 23. The whole build up to F1 seems to be crammed into a tighter timeline than back in the day. Ultimately, it really f*cking helps to sit in a front running car from day 1 and throughout an entire career. It’s hard to tell how many titles, victories and other records Schumi ‚lost‘ while helping Ferrari build their dominance. It’s equally hard to tell how many he forced by choosing that path =)

@AidanMillward

2 жыл бұрын

He lost 97 through being an idiot, lost 98 through stalling on the grid cos his clutch was too hot and 99 wasn’t his fault.

@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1

2 жыл бұрын

In fairness whilst I do agree with most of what you said Hamilton and Schumacher did enter F1 at the same age of 22 obvs Hamilton has benefited from being in race winning cars at worst in a given season from day 1 throughout his career and having more races per season compared to before but he was the same age as Michael Also I think the lost wins at Ferrari is slightly overblown as 96 yes there was no opportunity to really win that many races still won 3 but from 97 onwards with the exception of 99 (broken leg) and 2005 (tires) Schumacher was still getting his 5+ wins a year before the championship breakthrough. Now naturally its not the 10+ wins a year he could have potentially gotten if Ferrari were the dominating team but its not like he was 'barely winning' if you get what I mean?

@AidanMillward

2 жыл бұрын

@@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1 take 91 out as he didn’t do the full season and Schumacher had a race winning car every year until 2006, just like Hamilton has had.

@nehylen5738

2 жыл бұрын

​@@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1 Hamilton's 1st ride was a title contender of a car. Probably the best over the course of the season. Schumacher's B192 on the other hand was the 3rd fastest car on the grid (albeit more reliable than Senna's), and the gaps at the time were much larger than they are today between cars. The backmarkers routinely finished 5+ laps down. Current Haas is rarely above 2. Assuming FW14B = Merc W12 as reference, the MP4/7 would be around the current McLaren's performance, and Benetton would be at Alpine's level. The MP4/8 would've been at Ferrari level (including the late season's engine upgrade!), while B193 was relatively on par with the B192: Benetton messed up engine position iirc, which they solved in 1994. Also losses in 97/98 are in the most part due to the Ferrari still being quite inferior both to the 97 Williams, and 98 McLaren overall. The F310B was more reliable in the 1st half of the season, yet was largely bested in raw pace. 98 was closer to the top, and while McLaren's duo was overall better than Williams' 97 one, the Williams & Benetton teams were free-falling, which made it easier to be best of the rest when things weren't going Ferrari's way.

@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1

2 жыл бұрын

@@AidanMillward I would agree to this one obviously he helped Ferrari to where they got to but if you hear the way people speak of the move they speak as they were the equivalent of Alpine today when he joined they were the clear 3rd fastest team in the 94 and 95 F1 season again this isn't to discredit Michael *at all* but Ferrari weren't completely hopeless when he joined

I also recall a claim that Bridgestone was tailoring the tyres to better suit the Ferrari more and none of the other teams they were supplying, while Michelin was giving all teams the same spect tyre. Always wondered if that was true or not.

@kwx1374

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah it is sort of true Bridgestone Made tyres specifically for Ferrari and then supplied the same tyres to the other Bridgestone runners I believe that’s how it went

@judgedeath3

2 жыл бұрын

@@kwx1374 They did the same in 1998 but then for Mika hakkinen when it was mainly them using bridgestone. So its how bridgestone work.

@Olivyay

2 жыл бұрын

@@judgedeath3 to be fair, Goodyear did that too in 1998 when they decided Ferrari was their best hope to retain the title. Before the new Goodyears appeared in Argentina that suited Ferrari better, Ferrari were fighting with Williams and Benetton, and as soon as the new Goodyears appeared that fight was over (well, maybe not for Irvine haha).

Ah come on man Aiden. I was sure Brazil would feature heavily as both suppliers cocked up and the resulting chaos was brilliant. Very well written vid mind this well done

Another cracking video as always! When will we get a video on Roberto Moreno 🥳 Ps - thanks for producing brilliant content during the last couple of years, always brightens up a day, even more so during the lockdowns👍

This is similar to the rear wing tests that were introduced mid way through last season, but on this occasion the teams (ahem... red bull) were given time to ensure compliance before the checks were applied.

I like the new channel look. It looks cleaner. I keep forgetting that a vid is you cause you used to have a green theme

Good video! Add this situation to Masi’s fuzzy rule interpretations during the Abu Dhabi race in 2021. Result: the FIA totally lacks credibility as a fair arbiter of F1 races.

The mentioned press conference is an absolute classic with gems like Ross Brawn asking one of the journalists "do you have to keep laughing".

@AllThingsRacing

Жыл бұрын

is there a link to it somewhere?

Ironically most of Schumachers records have been beaten by the guy who jumped Michael's car after he retired.

Rate the new camera aiden! Loving the quality and new thumbnails

I file this under 'We did not think of it first so we want it banned'. Btw that moment in the press conference where Patrick Head shuts down Ross Brawn is absolute gold 😂

@AidanMillward

2 жыл бұрын

“Patrick why are you laughing?”

Nice video

The Frenzen bleep killed me

I miss having two tire manufacturers.

I remember watching the race at Indianapolis where only the Bridgestone runners ran the race. All of the Michelin cars pulled out.

Let be honest, anybody else click the LIKE button before the PLAY button on Aidans videos?

I do the same thing with Yards and meters but from the other direction. I really wish the UK would just pick a measuring system and stick to it.

The INDY/KART series you just did... *Standing ovation* Could you please do a greatest drivers in Canadian history? If you won't, I will. Just like WWI and WWII, Canadians are... Different. Hence the British called us in to actually make a difference (You're welcome). We're fearless, still are. Paul Tracy, Greg Moore, Gilles and Jacques, Hinch, let alone the other great Canucks. Hell, even throw those things we call drivers (Stroll, Latifi) into it. Either way, best of luck in 2022!

@truenorthben

2 жыл бұрын

PS, my favourite drivers of all time are Mr. Le Mans (TK) or a split between McNish or Vettel. I just believe we have as many great drivers in our own way, as anything Brazil or Germany can offer.

It was technical competition, interpretation of the rules and engineering. It will continue happening, and those who are favored and falling behind will always be given a chance of hearing and thus capitalizing on the aftermath. The season should have continued and changed the rules thereafter..

I cant think of 3 tire companies i dislike more, i had bridgestone duller a/t on my pickup truck when i got it, they felt like i was driving on ice in the middle of the summer, zero traction whatsoever, and Michelin and Perelli always seem to have less tread depth then their competitors when new, and typically cost twice as much, i dont get it.

Man I miss the Tire Wars.

Did Ross Brawn get objectively more likeable over the years, or was that just something of a mirage caused by him working with Flávio/Schumacher/Ferrari? Maybe I just started liking him more once I realised he’s both a Manc and a Manchester United fan…

@AidanMillward

2 жыл бұрын

Might be. Vettel became more likeable once he was out of Red Bull for instance.

@gdogg3710

2 жыл бұрын

@@AidanMillward he’s definitely a lot more likeable as a midfield runner. This is probably the highest his stock has been in the eyes of anyone other than Vettel fan boys since he was a Toro Rosso…

I remember the awkward but funny conference with Flavio, Ron, Patrick and Ross. Do you have to keep laughing?

Any time you mention Ron Dennis.....✊️

‘Twas the era where Ferrari were given way too much positive assistance, including this. As you say, should have been a “change for next year”

Barrichello won the Silverstone GP n 2003 on Bridgestones which Rubens said was down him gambling on softer tyre than MS.

@AidanMillward

2 жыл бұрын

Just before the heatwave came as well.

@TheSt1092

2 жыл бұрын

@@AidanMillward I don't know about that it was pretty warm that day I seem to remember. I was there

@AidanMillward

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheSt1092 24 degrees. Pretty standard for us.

Ah yes, those years of politics in F1. I'm glad there wasn't social media around in those days as they would've made things ultra ultra toxic. Great TV though....I mean if even Jim Rosenthal can poke fun at Ron Dennis then it's all good. The inter team politics of that era was something else....I kinda miss it in a way. There was less of a PR filter with the way they talked (again with the exception of Ron Dennis).

just to let you know mate.. vid and audio out of sync again ...good old yt .. only slightly this time

"degradation" is a loaded word to use when applied to the sidewalls, as the sidewalls are structural and don't provide grip like the contact patch does. Bridgestone said that they saw signs of contact with the road surface on the sidewalls on photographs, but that did not mean that the grip-generating contact patch of the Michelins deformed and became larger during the race, just that with their sidewalls being more flexible than the Bridgestone, during extreme cornering the bit close to the contact patch could come into contact with the road surface and show signs of friction on it. The tyres were still legal based on the rules at the time, *even* when measured after the race. They had to literally change the definition of what the contact patch was in the regulations, even though it had been strictly defined, to make them illegal and curb Michelin's performance. Bridgestone and Ferrari effectively lobbied to change one of the most important parts of the technical regulations in the middle of the season to mess with their competitors' performance when they risked losing the championship, and the FIA unbelievably accepted it.

If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying.

@freakysquirrel7218

2 жыл бұрын

I mean: A rulebook in F1 is not there to be read normally, but to be read inbetween the lines

@rosegraham5283

2 жыл бұрын

Viva la Raza!

@MrSniperfox29

2 жыл бұрын

@@freakysquirrel7218 The old story was always as long as the rulebook didn't specifically say you can't do X, then you were free to do X

Is that the reason off Ralf Schumacher crash in Indy ? After they change tyre side walls ?

Nowdays ud just have them correct it at the end of season, unless if any written letter already covered it

It not just almost 100 degrees on a Tuesday it every day and don't even get me started on when it's the summer and it's at minimum 100 degrees or more

That press-con between the Michellin reps and Ross Brawn definitely had an atmosphere as dense as bromine…

@AidanMillward

2 жыл бұрын

With Brawn being all “Patrick stop laughing 😭😭😭😭😭”

@ZeGreatStick

2 жыл бұрын

@@AidanMillward And Ron looked like he was gonna punch Ross 😂

Probably Michelin used the same design since their debut, and the Ferrari team was like "okay, we will keep this in mind, lets just let them use it. Once we see them take a bigger advantage on us, then we'll complain." Now i dont think if i remember well, but a Ferrari source said that they had photos taken from michelin-cars and... well, they became suspicious that the tread was wider than legal. Now im not a photo expert, but theres no way someone can just take a photo of a running car with any equipment, and then measure the tread with accurately (we are talking about millimeters here), probably someone blew the whistle for Ferrari, close to the opposing teams, who knew about it.

Aidan, thoughts on the proposed street race on the West Bank. Track is across the Israeli / Palestinian border #weraceasone

@blacktoothfox677

2 жыл бұрын

is that for real!? Wow F1 might actually do something more than just impotent lip-service in geo-politics

@TheSt1092

2 жыл бұрын

Non Starter.

@freakysquirrel7218

2 жыл бұрын

#WeCashOutAsOne

@depictionvisual

2 жыл бұрын

It's a very interesting proposal. Funding wont be an issue as it they're saying the U.N would contribute.

@depictionvisual

2 жыл бұрын

It's a very interesting proposal. Funding wont be an issue as it they're saying the U.N would contribute.

4:05 Coulthard and Hakkinen won with Bridgestone tyre in 2001..

Fully got into F1 in 2004 so missed most of this but it was clear ferrari biased at the time ( tbf even how they got away with the engine in 2019)

I was 12 when schumi first retired and EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE thought back then that those records will always. I dont expect anyone started to think otherwise other than when Hamilton surpassed Senna in qualifying standings. Canada 2017 was the beginning for those discussions

I think your doing Bridgestone a disservice,during the 3 races you mentioned, British,German and Hungarian grand Prix's Schumacher finished 4th at Silverstone and Barrichello won,at Hockenheim Schumacher finished 7th after a puncture a few laps from the end whilst running 2nd and in Budapest Barrichello would of finished 3rd if it wasn't for a car failure,so it wasn't quite the Michelin whitewash you portray it to be,it was just out of the top 4 teams Michelin had 3 of them and Bridgestone had 1.

1:44 lol and I just watched that video a couple of hours earlier today

Hello Aidan: I think it was all politics. Good job on getting rid of the distracting reflection on the door behind you. Stay safe and well.

Ahhhhhhh the gray area. We're not breaking the rules we're making the new ones

Ah, the good old FIA, that bastion of fair play and zero bias. Naturally, even now in 2022, peopled by senior ex-Ferrari people at the top.

Michael Masi was clearly pulling the strings. He’s been deciding championships arbitrarily since the dawn of time

Ferrari supporter at that time, but yeah i thought yeah it was rough at the time to do that to Michelin. I always thought at the time maybe it was to keep Bridgestone in F1 as MIchelin had a lot of momentum, I Honestly wondered after the Ferrari steam roller of 2000-2004 that they may pull out on a high as it must of been costing them a fortune. Personally in the current single tyre supplier i would prefer if Pirelli made the tyres harder to make the cars move around a bit.

I've reached the point that nothing surprises me about F1 when it comes to interpretation of their own rules. They have become little more than rich little boys, kicking and screaming and threatening to take their football home if everyone doesn't do what they want. This has only been amplified with social media, and now it's become a soap opera, instead of a sport. The sport of football at times also displays a little of this, making the business and money aspect too prominent, such as FFP claiming to make the sport fairer, whilst contravening every regulation of fair business practice at the same time. I can only hope it never gets a bad as it has in F1, where frankly, they have lost all respect through manipulation of regulations, seemingly at every race, for different reasons. They need to set rules, and stick to them, as interpretation currently is no different to running up to a football referee and screaming at them until they change their mind, and everybody knows that cannot happen. It looks awful, and it undermines all authority to those rules set.

@KhanCipher

2 жыл бұрын

>They have become little more than rich little boys, kicking and screaming and threatening to take their football home if everyone doesn't do what they want. Here's the thing, in europe autoracing and to an extent car enthusiasm was and is still primarily seen as a thing for rich people only. Which imho does contribute a lot to that attitude of the FiA acting like rich kids, because when you get down to it a lot of them have come from the backround of being the rich kid.

Goodyear Could Come Back To Formula One

I think it's a grey area but when you explore grey areas you open yourself to protests and rulings against you

I think it’s mad how we all at the time thought the Michael’s records would probably stand forever, and only a once in a lifetime driver could break them, but Lewis’ career started the race after Michael’s finished lol

Ferrari and Saint Mike? Guess who got the softball.

Ah, Ronspeak.

They should have treated it like DAS, use it until the end of the year then you're done

Michelin came up with an idea that was within the rules as written at the time. Bridgestone could have come up with the same idea, but didn't. Bridgestone's most important customer was being spanked, and to save face because they hadn't come up with Michelin's trick, they got Ferrari to protest. The FIA folded because, Ferrari. Telling Michelin they had three weeks to redesign a tire they'd used for years was a gift to Bridgestone, and Schumacher took full advantage

Grey area/loophole that needed to be closed. I don't know if brawn said it or its just speculated but Ferrari knew about the Michelin tyre issue back in 2001, and did nothing because they were winning all the time. If they weren't winning they'd tell the stewards, if they're winning and their opponents are "cheating" who cares.

No McLaren used Bridgestones in 2001 and won 4 races Coulthard winning in Austria and Brazil mika Hakkinen winning at Silverstein and Indianapolis.

6:45 That is not true... The tyres are NOT the same as they were since 2001, it was the MOULD, and the mould doesn't play a part in how the tyre flexes. It's easy fact-checking like this that Brits always conveniently leave out when their team/driver are brought into the discussion.

@MrSniperfox29

2 жыл бұрын

Flavio isn't British and he went along with the whole thing

@timobolka1

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrSniperfox29 Yes, he was totally not part of Team Enstone based in the UK. Plus you know, Renault/Michelin being French surely didn't have an impact...

@MrSniperfox29

2 жыл бұрын

@@timobolka1 So you consider an Italian working for a French team to be a Brit? Interesting.

@timobolka1

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrSniperfox29 Team Enstone is British, and you completely misunderstood my original take. By Brits that leave out facts, I meant this whole peace by the Aidan, who is Bri'ish, where he says that the tyre was the same since 2001. Totally not like it was the same mould, but the construction and compound were evolved tenfold, but I guess you can stay ignorant point to the useless facts like a team boss defending their team's interest...

@jryder3511

2 жыл бұрын

It’s funny since I remember this being said in the conference by Patrick Head. “It’s the exact same mould as seen at Imola 2001”. But how does it evolve? (Genuine question)

The background to all this is there were, at the time (the Schumacher/Ferrari/Dream team era)... 'a lot' of controversial FIA decisions which went in Ferrari's favour. ('Ferrari International Assistance' and all that)

@judgedeath3

2 жыл бұрын

And then it went with red bull in most cases and then mercedes now. So its evens out.

Funny how there is always a scandal for someone else every time Ferrari isn't competitive.

Schumacher got a puncture very late in the race in germany that’s why he finished 7th

Eh, Pirahana Club! Smell blood, attack..

I think a yard is a little longer than a meter.

It was just one of the scandals of Max Mosley and his Ferrari International Assistance.

@francescosalvato6612

5 ай бұрын

Ah yes fia helping Ferrari to Lost the 2003 Championship and make that happen in 2005.

So if Michelin thought the tyre construction totally legal,then why did they have an alternate tyre already designed and ready

@Olivyay

2 жыл бұрын

They didn't.

Yes Ferraris records have been beaten, but i think the circumstances have to be taken into consideration. Under Bernies and Mosleys rule there is no way they would have won 7 driver and 7 constructors titles in a row. Bernie and Max would have introduced rules that completely weaken Mercedes philosophy. Like they had done with Ferrari in 2005. To the Michelin tyres - deformed more than it should have - a nice way to describe the way they constructed, on purpose, the shoulder and the tread of the tyre in a way that the tyre got bigger than the rules allowed. But - thats F1 EVERYONE goes to the maximum and sometimes over it. One say its cheating, others say its an interpretetion of a rule. Even if this interpretation was bold and totally clear that if the competitiors ask the FIA for clarification, the FIA will say thats illegal. But untill the FIA clarified it - it was an interpretation and the loophole got closed. FIA was definetely right to immediately ban these tyres, as they were, without any doubt, against the spirit of the rule. So its impossible to say - use them untill Japan. Just imagine someone got caught with a clever form of four wheel steering. Its would have been against the rules, even if they way they did it would have exploited a loophole. Exploiting a loophole is part of F1, sure, but if you "get caught" exploiting a loophole, its just not possible to be allowed to use it for another few races. Same with Head 83 races argument. Thats just nonsense. If you really cheat for 83 races that does not mean you should be allowed for another 83 races...so everything was right. These tyres had to be banned. They got banned. All was done right and there also was no other way. Everything else would have been totally wrong, and would have had severe consequences.

It’s a bit of politics at the time what caused this. I guess that while the surface of the tyre in contact with the asphalt part was illegal, they’d done so through a grey area. Probably cheating if the specific wording is against the contact patch, and probably just a grey area if it was against how you achieved that contact patch. The FIA probably wanted to appear strict and uncompromising, and were probably a bit embarrassed that they’d not found out about it for 2 years. The correct decision was to mandate the change after Japan since it could still be argued that, even if it didn’t come to that, forcing a manufacturer to design and manufacture an entirely new spec of racing tyres in 3 weeks notice is not the most sensible thing in the world. As well as probably riding out the Ferrari/MSC wave, Ferrari being such a massive brand and MSC breaking all the records at the time must have been such a PR dream.

@freakysquirrel7218

2 жыл бұрын

You could say that grey area is similar to Ferrari's engine from 17 to 19. They did use more fuel than allowed on the straights, but over a single lap they were still within the allowed amount/lap. Same here: Michelin's tyres had a bigger contact patch than Bridgestone, they used it, as you said, through a grey area. FIA has been played so many times by teams that I can't even keep up

@MrSniperfox29

2 жыл бұрын

@@freakysquirrel7218 IIRC there was never any discussion about Ferrari's "trick" engine in 2017/2018, it was only in 2019 when it became apparent when they suddenly went from the 3rd/4th fastest car to the 1st in a matter of races.

@AidanMillward

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrSniperfox29 there was discussion before 19 as people noticed at the Canadian Grand Prix in 17 I think it was Vettel’s car had suddenly gained a fuckload more power. At about 130mph it just started pulling.

@Olivyay

2 жыл бұрын

@@freakysquirrel7218 They did not have a bigger contact patch, as the sidewall wasn't considered a contact patch. Whether the sidewall came into contact with the road during racing was irrelevant. The performance was gained via the suspension design and settings that the more flexible sidewall allowed the Michelin teams to use, not the size of the area in contact with the road.

@Olivyay

2 жыл бұрын

@@AidanMillward I think there were suspicions as soon as it was noticed that you could see fumes of burning oil much more frequently at the back of the Ferrari engines than on other manufacturers. They first used a trick with oil in 2017-2018 then an additional trick with the fuel flow in 2019.

The more I find out about F1's shenanigans about rules and their interpretation and enforcement, the more I prefer NASCAR

If you ain’t cheatin you ain’t tryin

‘Here is a rule. Here’s the way we check for compliance. If it checks out, it’s legal’. That’s how it’s done, right? Including the way checks are done. I don’t hold with all that stuff about flexiwings and such. It’s all so ‘ yeah but actually no’. If you complain, you just weren’t smart enough. It’s certainly not a question of integrity, don’t make me laugh. This is F1

British were hounding the Italians. Italians didn't like it, so they went to their mummy in Max Mosley for help, and he helped them out. The British being Williams & McLaren & Italians being Ferrari.

@francescosalvato6612

5 ай бұрын

Ferrari wasn't a totally Italian team , Rory Byrne Is south African and Ross Brawn Is British, Ferrari was almost screwed by that stupid rules, and they succed in 2005.

Grey area

F.i.a Ferrari international assistance And motor sport is full of gray areas, that people will complain as they never thought if it. Double diffusers are the biggest I can think of in last decade or so

"blah blah blah tyres at the Hungarian Grand Prix" - a man lol

Mika hakkinen and david coulthard win with bridgestone in 2001..mclaren switch to michelin in 2002..

Everyone in F1 'cheats' it's what the grey areas are for.

like, revealing "illegal" tyres in the heat of a battle and forcing to make new spec tyres just in 3 weeks? that's bullshit for me. FIA at its best.

didnt even measure the bridgestone