Retired structural engineer here. There is nothing magical about 45 degrees and the physics doesn’t change with a bigger angle.

@PhongNguyen-iz3sj

3 ай бұрын

Agree! The material used and how much load it can carry determine the optimal angle .. 45 is arbitrary with out context.

@Caitanyadasa108

3 ай бұрын

Yup, I've built plenty of long gates and they hold up just fine.

@trehobbs6568

3 ай бұрын

Vertical strength of brace is superior in an angle below 45 degrees. No stress on the fasteners. Because the fasteners are not needed. But over 45 degrees, the arm is distended, the brace wants to rock down, it's up to the fasteners to prevent a single degree of sag. At this point shear strength of wood and fasteners come into play. Stuff starts to move.

@nimnogaparus

3 ай бұрын

​@@trehobbs6568As OP said, nothing magical about 45. 10 is better than 25 is better than 45 is better than 60 is better than 85.

@Scotland1766

3 ай бұрын

Finally a decent answer. 45 will depend on width of gate and if you can fit 45 into this length. They have no idea.

My mom had gate that was about 15 years old and sagging. She had a handyman install one of those anti sag cables. It worked for about a year. So I bought about $20 of galvanized nuts,bolts and washers and replaced all the screws and nails one at at time. Each fence board had 3 bolts nuts and 6 washers. That gate was so strong you could stand on it. That was 20 years ago. It was still just as strong and sturdy 20 years later and never sagged again. It go another 20 years easily but my mom sold the house and the new owners tore down the whole fence to add a second garage. Nails and screws lost their grip and become lose as wood ages and some decay sets in around the holes nails and screws make. A bolt going all the way through the bracing and fence boards with washers on each side sandwitches everything together. Washers increase the surface area so much that even if the hole gets bigger from rot it will still hold the pieces together. If you ever have to replace the wood just reuse the nuts, bolts and washers.

@tamaralee4108

17 күн бұрын

This is an excellent summary of the RIGHT way (bolts with washers) to make connections in wood. A wood gate with the diagonal in tension can work well if the end connections are bolted.

@rchurch2769

3 сағат бұрын

Wood does swell and contract on endless cycles. No matter what kind of cable or fasteners one uses, it will require maintaining. While some work better than others and some types of wood perform better, There is no forever maintenance free fastener for the life of an outdoor wood structure.

This is the simplest yet most effective video on gates. Most people need a visual and this was perfect for that

@terry_willis

3 ай бұрын

I would add this was an excellent video in general. No obnoxious background music, no (long) boring intro with fireworks, no silly flashing images in background, the humor was subtle and entertaining. I urge all video creators to strive for this. (P.S. I don't even have a gate.)

@blacksquirrel4008

3 ай бұрын

Except it’s wrong.

@jonwelch564

3 ай бұрын

​@@blacksquirrel4008they got the long gate wrong 😂

@FarmerFpv

3 ай бұрын

@@terry_willis You must be an older person, Nothing wrong with that. But, there is nothing wrong with adding a little, music, flare, and comedy to content in this day and age. I enjoy it as long as it's not a cut every 2 seconds, lol.

@FarmerFpv

3 ай бұрын

@@jonwelch564 Explain how it is wrong? Back up your claim?

Y'all crammed a ton of jokes AND good information into just a few minutes. Love the quick, no-fluff editing.

Best ad for a 2 screws and a wire I've ever seen. Joking aside, I really appreciated how well this was presented. All ads should genuinely teach something like this one did. I'm not sure why there is concern about going greater than 45 degrees, sure it is not 'as strong' but it is more than strong enough, and still the right direction. Another trick to point out, you can build the frame for a gate, wrap a single wire all the way around it and tighten just that, and then throw your diagonal compression bar in. FAST, SIMPLE, CHEAP and will last forever.

To be clear. This only applies to wood gates. Steel gates work vastly better under tension. As well as aluminum. I have built 60 or 70 as wide as 26 foot free span.

@hrmIwonder

3 ай бұрын

Interesting. Why is that?

@tireballastserviceofflorid7771

3 ай бұрын

@hrmIwonder Think about a bicycle spoke. The wood method works because wood sucks at holding a fastener under tension for long term. Steel on the other hand does not care. When a fat kid swings on a steel gate. If it's compression bracing the brace needs to be strong enough to hold a compressed load of a fat kid a 20 feet. It takes a 2.5 to 3 inch sch40 pipe minimum. If under tention. A 1 inch pipe or even 1/4x1 flat stock is way more than strong enough to hold thay fat kid at 20 feet. I have built a LOT of steel and aluminum gates.

@hrmIwonder

3 ай бұрын

@tireballastserviceofflorid7771 thanks! That makes sense. You could suspend a 10lbs weight from a wire but it wouldn't support the weight under compression. I hadn't looked at it that way. Thanks again!

@tireballastserviceofflorid7771

3 ай бұрын

@@hrmIwonder Exactly.

@exodeus7959

3 ай бұрын

And that’s why almost all of our modern bridges are suspension bridges (under tension) vs compression arch bridges. Loved the fat kid example. Works pretty good in my imagination center of the brain.

How the hell did I get here? Very interesting though

@isaacweigelt910

2 ай бұрын

Yeah, same.

@carlosminotaur

2 ай бұрын

🤣👍🏼

@DadaIorian

2 ай бұрын

Have you talked about repairing or working on a fence lately? Google is always listening. That's how I got here. Just did a fence build last weekend.

@buckeyeplans

2 ай бұрын

That’s what I’m saying too 😂

So glad I saw this before replacing my gate (that I braced wrong) this spring. Thanks.

@LTVoyager is right: nothing magical about 45 degrees. It’s just that the tension or compression gets more extreme as the diagonal element gets closer to horizontal. Another point: the top horizontal member is in tension either way. Its force is carried by fasteners either way. So while having the diagonal member in compression is better, the other forces need to be considered as well. Great video!

@Robin-Visser

3 ай бұрын

It also depends on the direction of the wood used to build the gate. With horizontal installed ‘planks’, your pressure-solution works great. With vertical installed planks, the pressure solution will slowly push the vertical planks go wider and wider until the gate wont fit anymore

@stipcrane

3 ай бұрын

Nothing magical about 45°. Moving the brace from 55° from vertical to 45° adds extra leverage bearing on the brace erasing any advantage. This calculation needs to be done with vectors, not intuition.

@petr0news

3 ай бұрын

@@stipcrane once you exceed 45° the gate starts to work as a leverage, multiplying load forces.

@SenselessUsername

Ай бұрын

It's a magical number in the way computer programmers use the term: It's unexplained, it's not necessary to understand how it's found, but if you change the value things go wrong. PI = 3.1415926 is an example. Here it's more "rule of thumb" than real magical number but OK.

On iron gates its best to do the opposite of wood because metal will bend easier than stretch.

@johnwade1095

3 ай бұрын

I work in steel, and endorse this statement.

@QualityDoggo

3 ай бұрын

Makes sense, similar to what the mentioned about rods/tensioning at the start

@martin-vv9lf

3 ай бұрын

thanks for posting this. I made an iron gate in tension a few years ago, and i thought it was a failure.

@robertmagnusjamieson1759

3 ай бұрын

build a steel gate the opposite to a wood one? thats nonsense, if you makf the steel gate out of steel with the same profile as the wood used, then the steel gate will react to forces applied to it, in exactlly the same manner as the wood one, the only difference being the steel gate will withstand load forces many times higher than the wood one, if you want to see where the loads are appied to a gate, just have a look at a shelf bracket, the direction of loads on a shelf bracket are exactly the same as those acting on a gate, theres a reason why shelf brackets are never fitted upside down…and they are normally made from steel,

@johnwade1095

3 ай бұрын

@robertmagnusjamieson1759 that would assume you used the same coss section of steel as wood, but typically a steel gate would be made of slimmer sections than a timber one due to steel being harder and denser than wood. Slim sections are more susceptible to buckling than thick sections of equal tensile strength, which is why we use them in tension not compression. You can pull a truck with a wire hawser, but you can't push it.

There must be a lot of people out there bracing gates. Over a million views in 6 days? Thanks, guys, we'll be seeing straight and well-braced gates everywhere now :) You've got to love engineering, you picked up a new subscriber. :)

@KM-bv3fp

2 ай бұрын

I'm not bracing gates, but I find engeneering interesting as a hobby

@br.m

17 күн бұрын

Nope, I've already watched every other video and KZread is scraping the bottom of the barrel for recommendations. Next, I can learn how to throw a punch in a street fight, or how to stop smoke from a fire pit, or how you unlock a spiritual awakening... All stuff that I also have no interest in or use for. But I will watch them all, like and comment too.

I’m currently working on a timber framed bridge design project for my school. It’s more of a conceptual drafting project than anything else because we’re not focused on the physics side of things just the hand drafting aspect, but this explains so much about historic wooden bridge designs it’s hilarious to think I had this element explained so well in a recommended video about fence integrity.

@ja-no6fx

18 күн бұрын

This is called curated content. Your webbrowser is watching you

Very clear video. Only thing would be to switch your use of “less than” and “greater than” 45 degrees.

Here because of the algorithm. I have no intention of needing to fix a gate or anything to do with fences or gates, but these guys are awesome, and I love the video. The algorithm works in mysterious ways.

@GrandPoivron

3 ай бұрын

Quality content is quality content.

I had no intention of watching this video, but the thumbnail was interesting to me. I watched the whole way through too. Sooooo KEEP IT UP!

There is no magic about 45deg. Sure It is a good rule of thumb; the shallower the angle the more weight is on compression and the more it pushes the end out proportionally to the amount it supports then end in the upward angle, but 46 deg is not all of a sudden going to break or last half as long. Same applies to tension cables. If you had a gate 3x the height a tension cable and its mounting will need to be much stronger than for a square. But a 5' wide gate that is 4' high would not really be a problem, either for compression or tension. Other than the critical 45deg, I think the video was excellent and good for someone trying to keep in their dogs.

Built gates for 35 years. Ditch the cedar or redwood as those wood species are too soft to serve as structural support. For a personnel gate weld 1" square aluminum tubing into a rectangle with one cross brace. Weld on a piece of flat plate to secure a latch. Then attach your fence boards directly to the aluminum with short deck screws. There, the gate will never rot, twist or sag. For driveway gates use 1 1/2 or 2" tubing and a little trigonometry for additional bracing. In and around Pasadena CA you can find over 200 of these gates which I built.

@VariHapii

3 ай бұрын

Do you happen to have any quick pictures of your driveway gates? Been thinking on framing up my own for a 20' split swing config but don't quite know best way to mount hinge, wheels, etc. Also do you use stainless deck screws through boards? Appreciate any advice! Thanks for sharing

@gbwildlifeuk8269

3 ай бұрын

@alberthartl8885 i think youll find the video is about bracing a gate, not making one!

@DiscoFang

3 ай бұрын

For this comment to fit in with the video you should have said which way the cross brace goes. Clue: metal tubing is best in tension not compression.

@BarrackObamna

3 ай бұрын

Aluminum tubing absolutely corrodes if you do not provide an anode and make it a circuit. Calcifies and pits up until it’s weaker than rusty steel.

@BarrackObamna

3 ай бұрын

@@VariHapiiI hope he’s not using stainless screws with aluminum posts, I’d rather have zinc screws rot off than rot my posts. Aluminum when mixed with steel with be a mess without an anode.

It’s nice to see you explain the right way to build fences!! Not the usual on KZread!! I WORKED for NW fence in Spokane Valley /Idaho fence in Post Falls. Not an easy job NWF was 6days a week 10 hours a day 30 years ago work for the railroad these days…run my train past 5 fences I built that are still standing and makes me appreciate my engineer job more every time I pass them! Keep up the good work!

I usually put the wood brace in compression but also add a steel tensioner! Yeah, i wear both belt and suspenders 😂

@cloud9847

3 ай бұрын

lol a real Chad

@davidscott5903

3 ай бұрын

They don't make them like they used to.

I enjoyed this way more than I should have done. This being said, delivery was excellent!

Dammm you guys packed a whole bunch of info in a few minutes, love the back and forth conversation. Had to subscribed

I didn't even know I didn't know this. Thanks!

I don't have a gate. Great video. Good personal dynamics, well structured video, no useless info, explanations of why the physics matter, and solutions for different scenarios. 10/10

I admit I didn't watch the whole video, but for my wooden gates, I installed two diagonal threaded rods with a turn buckle in the middle, and eye hooks at each end, so I can adjust the gate at any time it gets out of alignment at the latch. It works great and won't wear out. Rust protection is required, but since you rarely need to adjust it after it is set up correctly, I just painted the threaded rods and turn buckle to match the wooden gate. You can always touch up the paint if it gets scuffed off during any of your adjustments. For this application, the brace is installed in tension, like the position of the wood brace when he first tried it.

A tension brace of cable on threaded rod will cause the gate to twist or warp, unless it is dead center in the gate. Can’t be done with a face mounted brace kit.

Mostly good info, but your two diagonal design for the long gate has that center post in tension so it relies on the fasteners to connect it to the frame or the braces, but you made it seem like it'd work also without relying on fasteners.

@kenwittlief255

3 ай бұрын

yes and the brace in tension is also trying to break the fasteners holding the outside vertical board in place and the one holding the bottom horizontial board by the hinge the premise of this video is wrong

thank you for the arm example, on how its easier to hold weight closer to you. that helped a lot

Wow, it's so nice to learn how to solve an issue i didn't know existed...pretty nice video and i love how you showed the issue that you were trying to solve and how to solve it!

If my gate is long enough that I put a support wheel on the other side to keep the post up, would you put the second brace facing the wheel?

@SimpleAmadeus

3 ай бұрын

I like this question.

@tessjuel

2 ай бұрын

Probably yes but it depends. A brace pointing downwards towards the wheel will direct more of the load to the wheel. Usually you want that since it means less on the rest of the structure. But then the question is, how much load can the wheel handle?

Your example with your arm is incorrect. If that gate on the left were just as long but taller, the brace would work fine. The reason the brace starts to fail at less than 45 degrees is that it approaches parallel to the horizontal members of the gate and starts to lose the advantage of a triangle. As the angel of the brace gets shallower, a given amount of compression of the brace translates into a larger vertical movement of the gate.

@kenwittlief255

3 ай бұрын

nothing worse than shallow angels!

@TonyTapay

3 ай бұрын

got me!@@kenwittlief255

Fantastic visual way of teaching these concepts! Thanks you guys. I definitely made the mistake of doing it at the correct direction but past 45° 🤦🏼‍♂️

extremely clear explanation. Great work guys.

@SWiFence

10 күн бұрын

Thanks!

Holy cat crap, I've been doing this backwards my whole fuggin life!

@TheCuntt

Ай бұрын

You've been making gates you're whole life but bracing the opposite way? I smell Bullshit

I've built gates now for over 25 years knowing the right place to put the brace, and the once all of the fasteners are in place it's solid. As long as the post or whatever the hinges are attached to is solid... I've also adapted the brace laying flat ,so the fence boards have 3 1/2 " of area to fasten to and it's a lot less chance of flexing. I also cut both ends of the brace into a point so it rides both side and top and bottom of gate. Not sure if this is followable but I thought I'd give it a shot. I also have never had any issues with sag when building six by six foot gates ,and just having the one brace corner to corner. Yet! But I'll keep that anti sag cable in mind thanks. Usually just have a wheel on the bottom 😏

Such a great video showing the importance of understanding compression and tension. I wish the people who built the fence on my house had understood these basic fundamentals of structural engineering. Pretty sure they did my very large gate doors totally backwards haha… now to go fix them!

I'm a handyman, I've built/repaired several fences and gates and you WOULD NOT BELIEVE how many "professional" fence companies get this wrong. Seriously, I bet only half of them are correct. Blows my mind

This is why you give your kids blocks as a toddler and not sit them behind a TV!

@x_Heffe_X

3 ай бұрын

Yet here you are watching a video learning like the rest of us…

@mikerainey3847

3 ай бұрын

@x_Heffe_X I believe you missed my point, but it's never a bad thing to see someone elses ideas.

@x_Heffe_X

3 ай бұрын

@@mikerainey3847 I didn’t miss your point, I was just giving you a hard time haha.

@Frizzly007

2 ай бұрын

I fixed my wood fence gate by putting a caster wheel at the end. Been working for over 22 years so far

@dyerstar

2 ай бұрын

Poor kid, looking at the back of a tv. 😂

The two-brace method on the wider gate puts the center vertical member in tension. The compression of the diagonals tries to bend the rails apart and transmit all their tension into the fasteners connecting the center upright to rails.

@JLars

3 ай бұрын

Seems like making a V from the boards both pushing against a center would make the most sense. The inside board wouldn't have much tension on it, but would be keeping the center board straight.

@stefanth8596

3 ай бұрын

​@@JLarsis there a point in having the center beam in that case, with regard to saghing that is?

@haplozetetic9519

3 ай бұрын

​@@JLars A second one from top of hinge side to lower center wouldn't help for the same reason as the first example on the shorter gate. As the gate begins to sag, the second brace would just be dragged away from the center board, leaving no support for it or the angled brace. Some other sort of brace to support the center board and/or cables crossing each angled brace for support could work. I've not tried it, so I'm not sure.

You tought me something today. Thank you. Great video.

Holy cow… this was the most useful 5 minutes I’ve spent in YEARS! Thanks guys!!!

@SWiFence

Ай бұрын

You're welcome!

how do people build Bill Gates?

@grjk3991

3 ай бұрын

However they do it, please lock him in and keep rest of us safe!

@DadaIorian

2 ай бұрын

A little bit of vaccine and a lotta bit of Epstein?

@louiswilliamterminator2887

2 ай бұрын

Best ask Satan

@user-sx9pr7iz5c

2 ай бұрын

First you get a whole bunch of horse shit and pile it up 2 stories high and your on your way

@dinomontagnese

2 ай бұрын

With heaps of cash

Everything was straightforward until the 45⁰ subject. If your gate is wider than it is tall then the angle of the brace will be less than 45⁰. No problem. It still works.

Thank you so much for explaining how this works!

@SWiFence

Ай бұрын

You're welcome!

OMG. This is brilliant. THANK YOU!!!!

@SWiFence

2 ай бұрын

You are so welcome!

This has cleared up questions I had for years.

As some other people commented before ... this was a well presented video. Pleasure to watch. Thank you & subscribed

@SWiFence

Ай бұрын

Awesome, thank you!

I built fences and decks for years, and used a gate design that did not sag! I was always amazed at the individuals that didn't get this concept.

@alwil1563

3 ай бұрын

Maybe they had a crappy instructor or supervisor that was too busy being amazed at their own brilliance to teach them.

@FarmerFpv

3 ай бұрын

Maybe the gate was built over a hundred years ago as the ones on my ranch are from the 1810s and rebuilt in the 1890s. I think my ancestors were drinking lots of moonshine when building gates. We have trapezoid and windmill tensioners on our gates. They look weird and random but lasted the test of time.

Tension and compression. In the final position as described the wood is under compression and the wire under tension. Thanks for sharing.

I believe the placement of the lower end as shown exerts pressure on the hinge. If placed against the vertical it would redirect the pressure

I thought I couldn't possibly learn more from this, boy I was wrong, thank you

Most entertaining video on gates ever. I may even remember what you said when it's time to fix my gates.

Thanks. Well done.

My PreCal instructor would love this!

Thanks guys! Great video.

I knew about the proper direction of a compression brace in a gate, but the knowledge nugget about it having to be less than 45° I did not know. In the near future I will be fencing my backyard and there will be a rugged gate big enough to get the mower into the back yard and this will come in handy. You may mention that there are crazy rugged, wide continuous hinges (aka piano hinges) available that would be perfect for heavy wood gates that will spread the load of the gate over nearly the entire height of the attachment post(s) and alignment is a breeze.

thx for 5 star content. it is so easy when you build it right.

Great explanation!!! Thanks

I made a angle iron wide gate once. It was bolted together with a tension brace. The top outside corner would always lean down. I switched it to a compression brace and it always stayed straight.

Great job guys!!!

Excellent ! Thanks guys !

Super cool! Thank you

Nice demonstration. However in a true fence the horizontal crossbeams will be secured by a vertical post at either side, so the diagonal support beam can actually go either way

Depends on what material you are using as the diagonal support. Many people use wire with a turnbuckle it would have to be in tension and would work just as well. Always more than The Only Way....

I put the bottom of the diagonal on the hinged stile not the rail. That way the stile-rail joint has no added forces. Also, the brace doesn’t need to span the diagonal. On a gate taller than it is wide a 45 degree brace to the hinge leg is sufficient and allows a horizontal rail in the middle as an attachment point to help keep vertical facing flat.

Actually made my first gate on my garden fence a month or so ago. It works fine, but i think ill be switching my brace to face the other way now

Thanks Boys i like you style. It is Sunday so IHOP after early service.

Love this video, no bs long winded talking. Simply to the point.

@SWiFence

3 ай бұрын

I appreciate that!

@dorengarcia7925

3 ай бұрын

@SWiFence I second that opinion. No music. No title waste of time Don't tell me why I'm here I know why. Straight to the point... particularly good because now I understand the difference between tension and compression... pretty interesting...

This only applies if the wood is captured within the frame. If you just screw a piece onto the face of the frame it won't matter because the screws are holding it either way. If you use a cable, make sure to use a turnbuckle so you can adjust the leveling/height easily.

Thank you for this video

Home depot sells metal gate kits and they are pretty good!

Very good video. Thank you.

That's good to show that stuff because a lot of people don't ever experienced that kind of stuff😢 I grew up in a construction building doing everything

As a homeowner who hires a fence company, I just assumed there were standards to be met. I also assumed that the physics would be imbedded in those standards. So glad I watched this video! Fun and interesting.

Really helpful tips,,,thanks guys you got yourself another subscriber,,,

@SWiFence

2 ай бұрын

Thanks!

Buckminster Fuller would be proud of you two.

Great info.

bracing in tension mode is fine IMO if you use a cable or rod with turnbuckles.

Finally, somebody understands gate physics!

Thank you

I never knew this....Thank you so much for the explanation and as to why you would brace this way. I also sub'd. Great job.

@SWiFence

Ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

I started incorporating tension braces in the joist system on decks using cables and turn buckles to help keep the bridging tight I like tension braces

Great. Merci from Montreal Canada.

Excellent information. 👍

Nice work, guys

good information

Great video. 👍🏻👍🏻

I don't need this information but I'm glad I have it.

Great video . thank you!

@SWiFence

Ай бұрын

You are welcome!

If my wood gate is sagging do I have to take the hinges off first and then put a wood compression brace on or just place a piece a wood under it and then put the brace in

I subbed guys 😅just on the sense of humor you guys have lol. I’m a high pressure tank welder so I kno a thing or 2 about physics. And this actually helped me lmfao, I went right outside and fixed my pigs gate 😂

@SWiFence

25 күн бұрын

Awesome! Welcome aboard.

Well done

Thanks!!

@SWiFence

2 ай бұрын

You bet!

It seems clear that the single brace on the long gate is more effective than the heavier and more complex version with three braces/boards. The single board not only holds the gate higher in the video, while the triple brace sags dramatically; but it also would likely hold more weight placed atop if easily tested. The additional braces add almost nothing but extra weight and waste. The one brace that is working is now put at a severe mechanical disadvantage due to the length of the gate extending as a lever beyond it. Braces should go corner to corner for maximum strength, as you first instructed, with few justifiable exceptions.

Now you tell me. Thanks!

Great job

Gentlemen...That was a very impressive & well thought-out presentation! I have seen some crazy "Billy-Bob" fencing in my day & I always have to muse, "where the hell did you learn to build fence?" Physics, geometry, and a wee bit of, (figure it the hell out)...Nicely done!

Its a question as to which hinge is taking the most load, as well as which fasteners. With the first option on the small gate most of the load is on the lower hinge and on the top outer fasteners. With the second option the load is on the top hinge and on the lower outer hardware.

Good job guys!

@SWiFence

2 ай бұрын

Thanks!

Thanks for this really clear and instructive video ! I have one doubt : if you tense a wire only on one side of the fence wouldn't it curve the fence to that side ? Should it have one wire on esch side ?

@SWiFence

25 күн бұрын

Yes, if you're really going to crank down on it. Our anti-sag kits are meant to prevent sag in an already-constructed gate. If you are only using wire in tension for support, you're correct--you'll need it on both sides.

Not an engineer here. I never took physics and you guys just saved me hours and $ of frustration - thanks!