I run and play in a good amount of play by post games and this is fairly normal there. Since people are posting when they are able, saying "ok, you two go before the boss and you two after, and we will advance once all in that group are done" is common so players who are more available don't get held up more than necessary by others with less free time

@MrTarrasque

24 күн бұрын

Oh that’s a smart take

And to think that some modern designers ends up returning to good ol' group initiative from back in the days. For the current game I am running we are doing the everyone rolls initiative, then we start from that person and go clockwise around the table. This is quick, requires no tracking, and makes everyone initiative modifier matters a little bit. I did simultaneous initiative with other games, and it works great too.

using this system ten years ago in an open campaign in my FGLS, after ten years i can say you can easily remove the initiative roll: divide playersin pairs, then the first pair go, the monster group go, then second pair go. Sometimes monster are divided in two or more groups, sometime a specific monster group go first, sometime you have more then 4 players, but you get the point

I came up with the same solution to making initiative more engaging at my 13th Age table after playing the Cypher System and Shadow of the Demon Lord. The only difference is that I have the players roll against the monster initiative DC (10 + monster initiative bonus) at the beginning of each round. I hand out a large token for "fast" characters, and a small token for "slow" characters. When they take their turn, the hand their token back. It became second-nature after a sessions, and runs really fast at the table. I love how much more cinematic our encounters have become since making this switch.

I once proposed a number of different initiative systems to my players to help speed up combat. One of them was essentially this system. They universally looked at the options and quickly said "All of these look worse." The only thing I do on the DM side is to group monsters into 1-5 groups (depending on how many there are), and that speeds up my turn.

@MrTarrasque

19 күн бұрын

Yeah that’s just a group that doesn’t wanna try stuff.

I've learned it from Eazy D6 system a while ago, but there players always went first, then adoped it to dnd for initiative bonuses of subclasses and spells to matter, so I'm using initiative DC for encounter (usualy passive initiative of the main monster or just arbitrary). Some players act before monsters. Then just side by side team turns. Basically it is exactly what you talking about. It is a ton faster, but more important - it produces so much interesting player interaction and hence fun. And much easier for GM to take turns for monster too. I cannot use anything else since that no matter the system. Great advice, 100% agree, glad you brought this up, Mr. T!

I LOVE this!! I am running some games this weekend and I am going to share this with the tables. If they are willing to try it, we’ll do it! 🥳🥳🥳

@MrTarrasque

22 күн бұрын

Let me know how it went

@jakodar

19 күн бұрын

We ran a one-shot this weekend with 6 players at the table using this for combat. Everyone loved it! It took a little bit of trial to get everyone smoothed out, but as soon as they fully understood it, the combats immediately became faster and more fun for everyone. We didn’t have anyone trying to push other players out. Whoever had a great idea just said it and everyone in that group responded. It is now our official table’s preferred method.

@MrTarrasque

18 күн бұрын

@jakodar kaboom! Love this

I think the simpler the initiative system, the better. I group all monster and have the players go clockwise or counterclockwise. It's concise on the monster side but it's still granular on the player side. I've been thinking of some ways to further homebrew this and your video have good insight on what's missing

Robert Schwab has a similar system (a designer for 5e and for Shadow of the Demon Lord). The main difference: You skip the roll entirely, and the heroes always go first.

Yeah... Its amazing what a well designed game, made by veteran game designers can do! My modified version of Cypher's "initiative" is that whoever is involved in the combat rolls to go, and anyone who ends up joining later automatically goes into the bottom bracket...thus it keeps the narrative in play. A minor thing, but yeah...

@MrTarrasque

24 күн бұрын

Oeh! Good one

It can be faster yet by not rolling for Initiative ever, simply running combats in Dexterity score groups order. For example, Le Rouge Rogue has an 18 Dex, and our Goblin Fighter has a 16 Dex, so they both act together before the Hydra, 15 Dex. Those with less than 15 Dex act together after the Hydra. Y'all have to decide what to do with party members who have the same Dex as the foe(s). Act together with the first group of party members? Roll off? Act with the enemy?

Game I designed has an initiative system where the monsters have a stat called "initiative" that is between 2 and 5 depending on how quick and ferocious the monster(s) is. The PCs roll a d6 , those who roll better than the monsters initiative go before it, those lower go after. Same numbers go simultaneous (thus even if monster is killed that round it does have its attack completed and vise versa). Circumstances can change the monsters initiative #, such as environmental conditions. I have a character class called Captain that can give a number of PCs (equal to charisma modifier) a +1 to initiative due to his battle commands, which is very potent.

This definitely an interesting idea to speed up combat. My question would be to how to avoid confusion from people just calling out numbers as they try to act at the same time. Could almost sounds like the floor in the stock exchange. I'll see if I can convince my group to try it.

@the-patient-987

23 күн бұрын

The number rolled only matters to determine if they go before or after the enemy. Then the ones grouped together can decide the order of their actions as they see fit according to what they're trying to accomplish. For example, let's say I can cast a hole in the ground and you have a magic force that pushes the enemy 15 feet in any direction. And we both roll higher than the creature DC. We go first together and we can just say that I cast the hole and then you push the creature into it, regardless of the numbers we rolled.

@helgiuz

23 күн бұрын

I didn't convince my players, just started using it and my players had an absolute blast with that, it was really a cooperative combat, a new way of thinking and team play. And no tracking initiative at all, no interuptions - fantastic. If wizard is searching for a spell for too long - no problem, fighter is swinging in a meanwhile ) It's a team turn after all, no time wasted. And you can always just go clockwise around the table (discord order etc.) if players hesitate... but believe me they won't hesitate for long ))) No turning back, just try it, man )

Players seem to be extremely resistant to teamwork. Everyone has their own thing. It is almost like the players think it diminishes their importance. I had been giving players the option. Maybe I will just do an entire session like this to force something to happen. Then i will know for sure if they hate it

@MrTarrasque

18 күн бұрын

Sad to hear the players are like that. The whole point of a ttrpg is to come together and have fun

I've been doing this the last few games and we love it! Slight difference: We roll initiative, I tell the number to beat, those players who beat it act together first, then ALL monsters go based on average initiative, then ALL players go, etc. It can be 'swingy' but I think that adds excitement and danger.

@MrTarrasque

22 күн бұрын

That’s a good take aswell

Baldurs gate 3 also uses this. If initiative rolls has the same faction grouped together they can go in any order, you can do action from player 1, action player 2, bonus action player 1, etc. monsters all move at the same time then take their actions. Etc. Being able to move simultaneously does give one better chances for sneak attack, and flanking setup. Also the same for monsters pack tactics and the like. Something to keep in mind :). Most of the time I’m using a vtt (even for in person) so rolling monster initiatives is just a single click so getting their initiative is quick no matter how many baddies, but the DC is a good idea I’ll keep in mind if I go back to pure pen and paper for some reason. :)

The way I go about it is; slowest player describes their intention up until the fastest, then rolls happen. Players listen to each other because they can work off what others are doing. So, in effect, it's all happening in the same 3 seconds or so, with the fastest player able to 'know' more about what is happening around them. It's maybe a little harder for a GM since you need to keep in your head the scene as a whole as it moves and changes with each completed action. I have found players to more decisive with their intentions instead of waiting to see what happens with the last action and then deciding what they will do. The big thing I have done to cut out a lot of time wasting is not bother with hard-rules abilities. You'll be surprised how much you can get done when there isn't pssing about with books, and reading of skills and all the rest that comes with it. Stops a lot of power-gamer jank too. (its all description and character based.)

I use this system and my group likes it.

@MrTarrasque

18 күн бұрын

Thanks!

Definitely worth giving a shot. It sucks the fun out of the game when combat is a grind, so I'm happy to try mixing it up. Thanks for the recommendation!

Im gonna try this with my players 😄

@MrTarrasque

18 күн бұрын

You wont go back 😉

The thing that always makes me wonder is: why should we speed combat though? D&D having a slower pace is an ok thing. It is a social experience, people should be able to zone out, crack jokes, eat a snack etc. but also: take their time before making their tactical decisions, trade ideas etc. I get that there are lots of people who enjoy a more fast paced game. But I feel that it kills something that is unique to the experience, it being majorly successful as a decompressed experience in a time where people are developing shorter and shorter attention spans.

@MrTarrasque

22 күн бұрын

It’s not so much about it being faster but more about everybody being involved more, this actually really promotes the social aspect of the game since people now have to talk and make decisions together in combat

@tmzFRM

22 күн бұрын

@@MrTarrasque but that already is a thing. Unless people are totally against engaging with each other during their turns. But at the tables I've played, people discuss curses of actions and rules meanings during each other's turns lively. The difference is that when I'm engaging with other's turns I'm focused not mainly in how I could get to the spotlight, but on how my party is acting, how the monsters are acting, and how the battlefield is changing. All of that is relevant to take good tactical decisions, and having some time between turns helps. I'm not criticizing you or people that prefer the style of play you're advocating for. The comments show that there are a lot of people that are excited about it, and even if no one else was, it worked for your table and that's fantastic. I'm just disputing the assumption that speeding combat is necessarily a good thing. PS: of course there are things that create problems to the rhythm of the game. E.g.: Spells like 2014's version of conjure animals, that create an unnecessary amount of extra turns for summons.

@MrTarrasque

22 күн бұрын

I totally get your point, and at my tables people are also socially engaged all the time. But there is the difference of everytime it's their turn, with this system they ALL have a stake in that one turn. The conversation changes in a good way. Can't really explain it

Hmmmm... I have to look into this.

Do you make the initiative rill every round? Or just once at the start of combat? Seems like every round makes it more unpredictable and fun

@MrTarrasque

23 күн бұрын

No once, like normal. Everything is like normal but people are just grouped together

Spit it out man!!!!

@MrTarrasque

23 күн бұрын

???

As a primarily cypher system GM, it feels weird to me that this rule isn't standard.

I like it

You can be my dungeon master any time of the day ❤

@MrTarrasque

24 күн бұрын

Love you to my man

@theblindjedi41

24 күн бұрын

Agreed. I think it would be a blast. Although I don't know if he'd appreciate the min-max I always bring to the table. ;)

@MrTarrasque

23 күн бұрын

@@theblindjedi41 I appreciate everybody's type of fun. I am not a power player myself but I totally respect people that find the fun in that.

@theblindjedi41

23 күн бұрын

@@MrTarrasque Oh I know you would. TBH i think part of the fun of D&D is when different players with different styles all come together.

@MrTarrasque

23 күн бұрын

@theblindjedi41 ​​⁠always funny to have three people do all kinds of crazy stuff and there’s always this one guy just sipping a coke, taking it all in.

Nice. :)

it is 😅need 1000 years old.

reasons why i went my own way and designed my own humble game

@swordsnstones

23 күн бұрын

visit our site to view our initiative system , basically 1D6 rolled by each pc, 1-3 means attack, 4-6 means to defend, then go around the table in a circle running the combat, on average it takes 5-10 min to do a full round of 5 people, as our combat mechs are simple and effective, with this initiative system you could get stuck on the defense each turn and you may die or you could be on the attack each turn, creates chaos and seems more realistic, at least to me. group initiative is also an option as it is very easy to understand. Keep 'em rollin'

@swordsnstones

23 күн бұрын

honestly the initiative system is only part of the issue, too many options on a turn is the main issue, stream line it to one, in our game because combat and initiative are quick, you will get your next turn usually within 5 minutes so you dont need to have 50 turn options to try to sort out at once. this way combat doesnt take 2 hours, the full encounter and game session can be done in less than that

At the end, the set DC is like ICRPG target numbers. Speeds things up a lot.