*TO CLARIFY:* What makes this huge boost to the print quality is printing the OUTER WALL before the adjacent INNER WALL is printed. That is why I called the Inner/Outer/Inner wall ordering option "printing outer wall first" as it does exactly that. Hopefully, that clarifies things. I know it can be quite confusing. *So TLDR:* Inner/Outer = IW first Outer/Inner = OW first Inner/Outer/Inner = OW first

@robmasonjr67

Ай бұрын

Why does the Ankermake Studio slicer (based on PrusaSlicer) not have this setting? I can't find it anywhere.

@GriffonWalker

Ай бұрын

Is there a cura setting for that?

@youtubehandlesux

22 күн бұрын

Isn't this default in Orca? Never printed with inner walls first again after testing it out.

@petercallison5765

11 күн бұрын

@@youtubehandlesux My default settings are inner outer, selecting a different printer may change that.

@ftnavy123

8 күн бұрын

how does this effect part accuracy?

This is the first video whose title contains the tired, old "GAME-CHANGER" claim that actually turned out to be a game-changer for me. Printing the outside walls first made a MASSIVE difference in the quality of my prints. I've been living with semi-OK prints for literally 3 years...can't believe I've gone this long without knowing about this setting. Why isn't it on by default in all slicers? Edit to add, after another print: I seriously can't believe the difference this made. My print looks almost injection-molded, for cryin' out loud! And I'm running it on my trusty old Ender-3 V2. Unbelievable!! Thanks for this tip!

I discovered this a few years ago. I realized that the quality is massively improved and there is pretty much no downside. I am really surprised this isn't standard.

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Nice, I wonder that myself too because so far I don't see any real downsides. There can be some caveats with it, maybe that is why is not a default, so that beginners would less often run into problems.

@AckzaTV

Ай бұрын

lolu still didnt reveal what it is in this comment hah. im waiting to be sold an ebook

@daliasprints9798

Ай бұрын

Cura made it default for a while but then reverted it, because they have lots of bad defaults that cause missing extrusion after unretract, especially on bowden printers, and they want to hide that on inner perimeter rather than showing it on outer. Despite it harming part integrity either way. 🤦

@donguyengiac5046

Ай бұрын

@@PrintingPerspective downside is the seam is on the outside right after a long retraction for a layer change, so the nozzle pressure sometimes might be too low and the seam may look worse

@Dustmuffins

Ай бұрын

@@donguyengiac5046 Maybe this can be avoided by printing infill first?

Finally, I've been printing OW first for 5 years now, saves a lot of time on postprocessing too

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

It is crazy for me that such an amazing setting is so little known, hopefully, more people will be aware of it now. :)

I started using IW/OW/IW because of the scarf joint feature and it was surprising to me how much better everything became, but I couldn't put two and two together on how that could be so until your video, thanks!

One likely reason is that curling and warping are caused by outer layers not having sufficient time to cool combined with the contraction of inner layers as they cool pull in on the outer filament. So by printing an outer wall first, you’re giving the outer layer the most time to cool so that it can be already solidified by the time the printer gets around to it. I legitimately never thought of it like that.

This solved all my outer line line problems, I thought it was weak cooling . I`ve never suspect that is the wall order so much important for print quality !! Thank you so much for sharing your experiments !!!

Well done for showing this in your prints, I kept switching between Orca and Bambu and got better results, but never realised what settings I changed as I discarded them. You've jogged the memory cells thank you :)

You earned a new subscriber with this one. Super fascinating idea, to-the-point video, and a good comparison of results. Well done, keep it up! Excited to check out the other videos on your channel and see what else you have in store in the future. Going to give I/O/I walls a shot on my printer right now!

Awesome to see the results really looking better and better! Congrats! 👌

I've been trying to tell folks outer perimeters first is better for years but everybody looks at me like I'm crazy...

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Haha! When you said it I wrote down the idea to test as it sounded interesting, but I was skeptical about it. Unfortunately it took 1 year till I got to test it and it completely changed my mind. I guess later than never is better, thanks for the great suggestion. :) Hopefully now way more people will be aware of it!

@kimmotoivanen

Ай бұрын

We've been taught for years that outer first makes 💩 overhangs 🙂 Maybe slowing down on overhangs cures that 🤔

@daliasprints9798

Ай бұрын

@@kimmotoivanen Not having 2015-era weakass cooling fixes that. 😁

@kimmotoivanen

Ай бұрын

@@daliasprints9798 maybe that too, though 2024 also has not so cool part coolings ;)

I just recently got into 3D printing and switched to this method after watching your video. Made all the difference in the world. My prints look so much better. Thanks!!!

Great video! I have also been using this setting for a little while now and it’s great. Thanks for the video.

this may be the final piece to my layer consistency journey, I avoided this bc of the stigma against it for "bad overhangs", thank you!

@daliasprints9798

Ай бұрын

Overhangs are actually better IME with outer first, at least as long aa you have proper cooling. When there's very little material below to bond to, the surface tension effects instead pull the outer to the inner perimeter if it's already there and make it go in the wrong place then curl because the extruded length is wrong for where it goes.

I had great results with these settings as well, though admittedly with limited testing. Most of the improvements make sense. I realized one reason the overhangs being as good or even improving may make sense while watching for video. First of all, the filament has more room to expand and sit on top of the previous layer, since it won't hit the inner wall and then have to squish outward over the side, which could cause a drooping overhang. Sure, you may think because clinging to the inner wall would keep the filament from falling outward that it would help, but the volume of filament extruded all has to go somewhere, so outward is the remaining direction if the inner wall is present. The other reason I think it may help is that not having an inner wall means the outer wall extrusion can be cooled from both sides, it even has a little channel of air flowing past it, and it isn't being kept warm by the previously printed inner wall. I would suspect the added cooling is a much larger factor than residual heat from an inner wall, but the amount the latter varies would depend on the print. I wonder how much outer wall appearance would vary with line width as well, especially with overhangs. Also counterintuitive, but wider layer widths can actually give better overhangs because it insets the outer wall more on the previous layer, meaning the center of the nozzle is less in free air when extruding. Anyways, very interesting tests and results! I do think I saw a slight improvement in your tests with the precise wall setting on, as especially the lower ridge on your far right test print was smoother. Hard to say not holding it though. A combo of outer wall first, precise wall, good cooling, and perhaps even wider than nozzle width layers could be the ultimate combo. Beyond that, precise extrusion is so important, as you repeatedly mentioned. This seems to be the Achilles heel of the K1 series, for example. Once you get extrusion dialed in, testing all of the other settings reveals a lot.

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Yeah, there can be so many things why we can see this happening that I just gave up on trying to fully understand why. The more I dive into 3D printing and how things affect stuff the more I am starting to see that assumptions why are quite often not correct. The K1 series extruder is armchair engineering at its finest lol, as the drive gears are only supported from one side, with the filament inside, those gears bend out of square and flop and wobble even more, a truly bad design. :/

@802Garage

Ай бұрын

@@PrintingPerspective The support on one side only hurts my soul. It would probably perform better as a single gear extruder with even an idler that wasn't supported on one side, hahaha. It's very true that trying to analyze and understand every aspect of printing is a huge ask for one person. That's why practical testing and experience are very important, as well as being willing to question what you thought you knew. A ton of incorrect assumptions and conclusions out there, like you said.

@AlexanderSmith600

Ай бұрын

Which extruder would be the perfect upgrade for the K1? Mine is 1200 hours in with no problems but always looking to improve performance and reliability as I hope to keep it for as long as possible.

@802Garage

Ай бұрын

@@AlexanderSmith600 It's not like the extruder doesn't work, it's when you start to get really picky about ringing and layer lines it will show up most. Not sure what the best upgrade is, but the channel NeedItMakeIt is going to be doing a lot of testing with the Ender 3 V3 series which uses a similar extruder and has similar issues.

Great video thanks for the advice!

A while ago, I've also started printing infill before walls (infill-outer-inner), so that any points from bad pressure advance get kinda ironed flat by the head moving by. Might be cool to try as well. Awesome stuff as always!

Wow im going to try this now. It makes a lot of sense after watching your video. Thanks!

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Hopefully it will lead to improvements like I saw on my prints, now I set it to every profile I have ;D

@BrianVoelker

Ай бұрын

@@PrintingPerspective I wonder why it's not drfault

2:26 Thank you so much for this small piece of information, I already knew printing outer walls first improves quality, but this problem you are discussing here is also super important, while almost nobody seems to know about it.

VERY INTERESTING. ALWAYS LOOKING ON HOW TO IMPROVE PRINTS. I’ll have to try ORCA SLICER

Thank you! Never heard abou this before. Cant wait to try it.

This small change gave me the biggest improvement of quality from all the changes. Including extruder/hotend/rails/kinetic bed. I don't need to upgrade anything anymore, and prints are superb, even under strong top-down lightning

Just a note on the "prrecise wall", and why it didn't change much: it's intended purpose is to improve dimensional accuracy, which is the aspect I usually care most about. It's nice if it looks pretty, but I most of all want it to work and fit correctly. For that precise wall does exactly what it's supposed to, at least for me. Much less deviation.

@MiG82au

Ай бұрын

Precise wall got me from hard interference at 0.10 mm clearance in the Orca tolerance test to totally free fit at 0.1 mm and light interference at 0.05 mm clearance.

@kimmotoivanen

Ай бұрын

If outer wall is printed in "free space", precise wall should not matter much. It would make outer shell weaker...

@TheCreat

Ай бұрын

@@kimmotoivanen Oh yes, without a pre-existing neighboring inner wall, it should have no or negligible effect. I haven't exactly A/B tested that in great detail though.

I started using Cura two years ago for the ultimaker 2+ connect I borrow from time to time and it had outer perimeters first by default. I was amazed by the quality and dimensional accuracy

Nice find, going to try it tonight. Just found your channel, and it’s fantastic! 😊

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Thanks :) Hope it helps for your prints!

Thanks for sharing! Ill give er a try

I'm testing this now and hoping for great improvements to dimensional accuracy for my Clickfinity Refined plates. One note: the description of the travel distance threshold is not clear at all, and since it's the most replayed part of the video I'm not the only one. I read around and from what I can tell from your video is that you have a travel distance threshold of 1mm and a Z hop type of Spiral. This causes Z-height movements when moving to another wall > 1mm away, slowing your print times (and probably heating up the filament more during that S hop time, causing dimensional issues). You recommend increasing the default to something like 2mm which reduced your print times. But this is only true because you have a Spiral Z hop type vs Slope, which combines Z movements with XY movements to reduce stringing. For me-Bambu Labs P1S w/0.6mm E3D ObXidian nozzle-the default value (under Printer Settings » Extruder » Retraction » Travel distance threshold) was 3mm with a Z Hop Type of Auto (aka Slope), so this is not applicable to me. Z Hop defines how the print head combines Z movements alongside XY movements. Keep in mind that some users are seeing scraping when the travel distance threshold is > 0mm. If this is the case then Z Hop Type to Normal might help at the cost of longer print times. The bottom of this Github issue is a great read for folks who want to learn the pros and cons of these settings: github.com/bambulab/BambuStudio/issues/3423

Great tip! Thanks for sharing!

Neat slicer trick. This made my layer lines on CF-PETG look massively better.

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Glad to hear that :)

I am currently printing some printer feet in TPU. The first two were printed with my old settings, second two are printing with In/Out/In, and I can already see a clear difference in quality.

Thankyou for this, I really mean it. I have been having issues with My K1 Max for months, tried everything. I used your suggested wall settings and the 2 mm thing and pow! My print layer lines have finally gone

Wow! The quality of my prints are so clean!! Thank you

I have been enjoying your videos for a while now and you appear to be a fellow engineer. So it was time to pony up and join as a member to support you. I hope these types of videos keep coming and that others follow my lead.

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Thank you so much! It is very nice to hear when people say they like videos, especially when it comes from an engineer. It confirms that the content is moving in the direction I want it to move. :)

That's awesome, I'm gonna try! I appreciate you included the comment about the tradeoff as well

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Thanks, hope it works well for your printer :)

Gonna try this today!

same! for me when printing really fast, its even better for cooling and overhangs. Another thing I miss and am very confused by, slow down inner walls first/only. that way you will get a consistent surface finish even when slowing down for minimum layer time.

One of the best "3d printing tips" videos, thank you

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful! :)

tested on the bambu a1 and work perfect! thanks mate for this tips

@DIYPERSPECTIVE May i ask what measurement unit is for you in overhang printing example of ABS on X1C, are those 10 % or mm/s for Bridge/External, and 50 are % mm/s for Bridge/Internal speeds? (And at what max volumetric speed you usually print ABS on X1C, if those are %?)

I've had mild arguments with people that refuse to believe that dual gear extruders have any downside.

@Pappagar

Ай бұрын

in engineering almost everything has Pros and Cons :)

@pizzablender

Ай бұрын

Using a Titan clone... which is surprisingly good in a DD configuration. I wondered why, but I understand now.

@George.___

Ай бұрын

Would anti-backlash gears be practical for a dual gear extruder? OR Is a single gear extruder just better in all cases?

@testboga5991

Ай бұрын

Dual gear became only a thing because back then the be all end all feature an extruder needed was flawless ninjaflex printing...

For tight tolerance or for quality surface I always use outer wall first but depending on the finish I need 0.4mm outer wall with 0.07 layer height and 0.7mm infill with 0.2mm layer height to make up for slower perimeter speed. This works great for overhangs and surface finish as it prints 3 layers of outer wall before 1 pass of the infill. This is done with a 0.6mm nozzle.

What is this setting in Prusa slicer? There’s a box for “external perimeter first: print contour perimeters from the outermost one to the innermost one instead of the default inverse order.” Is this the same setting?

very useful, thanks!

Thank you very much for this video. I had no idea that with this simple option, I could improve the print quality so much. With ESUN's ABS+, the quality improved quite a bit for me.

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Nice :)

I don't tend to leave comments on videos, but I'll make an exception here - I had bad looking walls for a while now, and haven't thought about changing wall printing order. I just changed this simple setting and printed the best looking piece I ever made. Thank you so much!

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Glad it did the trick :)

Been usong outer wall first for a while. Definitely well worth it. Minimal infill disturbances shown on the outside. I have one model that I sell as a physical process where itnis causing me issues due to overhang. I wonder if i can do a local section of inner wall first just in the overhang area. Could be interesting to explore it

Note that layer with to height ratio and extrousion multiplier also have a huge effect on overhangs and surface consistency

@TinSVM

Ай бұрын

Nice, so what's the rule for that? Could you elaborate a bit more?

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Most likely, I have used the most common ones of 0.42mm outer wall width and 0.2mm layer height.

@uujims3762

Ай бұрын

@@TinSVM lower extrousion multiplier can led to better finish but weaker parts and vice versa (inner to outer wall order only)

@rainmannoodles

Ай бұрын

That’s true, ratio is important. Think about a 0.4 nozzle printing 0.2 layers: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX Now cut the layer height in half: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX There’s much less overhang on each individual layer.

@Dark0Storm

Ай бұрын

​@@TinSVM For layer width and layer height I believe it's all about increasing the amount of overlap between one layer and the next. Larger line widths will overlap the previous layer a little more, improving adhesion and therefore overhang quality Similarly as you reduce the layer height the amount by which the next layer on an overhang is moved out by decreases (because there are more layers and so a finer "grain" to the stepping out), which increases the overlap between layers, improving adhesion and the overhang quality.

Just re-printed a Raspi case I found yesterday, but with OW. All the long straight surfaces came out much smoother, but the narrowest sections around the I/O, and the poles for the self-tapping screws came out a little bit bumpy. So a little bit hit and miss without any additional tuning, which I'll look into. So far I'm quite impressed. I've ignored this setting because I haven't really had any issues with tolerances and that Prusa Slicer has that tooltip that says it would reduce overall quality...

@Airbag888

21 сағат бұрын

Where do you change that in Prusa slicer please?

@AndersEvenrud

19 сағат бұрын

@@Airbag888 Under "Advanced" in "Print Settings -> Layers and Perimiters" you'll find a checkbox with "External perminiters first". It's only visible if you have expert mode on (the red button).

@Airbag888

18 сағат бұрын

@@AndersEvenrud thank you! Found it,

Thank you for the helpful video. Do you have the solution how to get rid of wall bulge at transition from base floor to wall?

Ok. TESTED. Using the Built in Orca Tolerance test, I am able to get the hex key into the .05 Hole. Previously, I was only able to get down to the .2. The only change made to the printer was changing to Inner/Outer/Inner.

Thank you for your work. For me Inner outer inner walls is slightly better but the seams are less beautiful. Have you changed the seam settings?

A lot of my recent prints have had some decent overhangs, which has always prevented me from using sandwich mode out of caution - guess I'll have to give it a go once again!

I first noticed this while tuning print settings for a large format printer at work but completely forgot about it after I started using Bambu/Vorons because the print quality was always good enough

Ngl I thought this was just going to be some clickbait but damn, the proof is in the pudding!! You’re right it does seem counterintuitive. I’m going to try this out for myself but it’s hard to deny all of your testing and obviously clear results. Great job on enriching our community. Damn near perfect prints ahead!! 😎

is this a possible setting on Prusaslicer? i cant seem to find it

how do you do this in prusa slicer 2.7? thanks

Question: New to Orca. Ender 3 Pro/Duet I ran the temp tower (PLA) from 195-230. really can't see a difference. Then I did first pass of Flow Calibration, and frankly they all have very nice top layers? I can't really pick a best.

@pbft.j

Ай бұрын

Are you sure that you're seeing the temperatures change as needed? Print again, watch the display to make sure it's changing temps mid print as expected.

Some of my best prints came off a Kossel Mini I built way back in 2014 that had a bearing for idler vs driven hobbed idler gear. That said, I'm not a big fan of concave hobbed drive gear or idler, because the filament can walk up the sides of the idler and/or hobbed gear which essentially changes the gear ratio, think CVT transmission and the filament is the belt.

I wonder how well it'll work on prusa slicer since it only has outer first and not inner outer inner

This is great, subscribed! Question: At 3:33 at the bottom of the page shown, it says " When this feature is enabled in OrcaSlicer, the overlap between the outer wall and its adjacent inner wall is set to zero. This ensures that the overall strength of the printed part is unaffected." It seems to me that there would then be little or no adhesion between the two adjacent lasers and thus the part would be weaker.

The seemecnc ezrstruder has one gear and works beautifully

How could you change the wall printing order in Bnabu Studio?

Does this apply to PrusaSlicer too?

I have the same issue with my prints so I will try this.

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Just keep in mind that all my shots are made with the worst lighting conditions to expose and show the difference the most. Anyone can show good-looking prints with the correct lighting angle. :)

When I use outer walls first I can’t seem to print threads. Threads as in a bolt.

does this play well with scarf seams?

Since you talk about surface finish, have you ever read the article called "Filament Width Compensation Experiments"? (Links not always allowed in YB, no idea why). It uses a Hall effect sensor to measure filament diameter and Klipper compensates for it. And you know what I found out today? The Q1 pro has a filament runout sensor on the extruder which is not a simple switch but actually a Hall filament width sensor! Just it's not used as diameter sensor, only as runout. Maybe you could try to calibrate it and enable it to see how it performs, if it helps or not. The author of the article writes that with that sensor he basically doesn't need to fine tune the extrusion multiplier for each filament, they end up all at about the same value.

Most of this has been my experience also. I can't speak to the overhangs though. My overhangs are better than before, but I cannot say for sure that it's because of this setting. I didn't notice it right away, but that's probably because I didn't immediately print things with overhangs before and after making the change.

This may be my solution ive looked for.

Parts shown have IW and OW, but how do they actually translate to slicer settings? Is either of those inner-outer-inner, or is it at all useful?

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

IW = Inner/Outer option, OW = Inner/Outer/Inner option in all my comparisons.

@kimmotoivanen

Ай бұрын

@@PrintingPerspective Thanks for clarification! And first inner wall takes (hides) any speed/temperature/melting phase difference before going to outer wall. Makes sense. Now, how to make non-driven idler for Orbiter 2 (internet seems entirely void on this topic) without losing too much extrusion force and filament guidance from the gears to the steel tube 😅

I may give that a try on my Ender 3 S1 with the Zuff cooler.

I'm uysing Cura 5.7 and there settings are a bit different here. Inner/Outer/Inner does not exist but instead "Wall ordering - IO or OI, and also "Travel distance treshold" seems to not be here.

@retromodernart4426

21 күн бұрын

In Cura, "Travel distance threshold" is under "Extruder", the setting is called "Retraction Minimal Travel" .

As of my testing I get nearly the same result with precise wall as with IOI Walls and also better overhangs. Also for IOI you obviously need 3 walls. I usually print with 2 + PW

on my voron, when i want to have really good print quality, i use my hyper speed profile (700mm/s 50k accel) and limit the flowrate to around 20, so the whole model has the same flowrate in the flowrate viewer

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

If your hotend's max flow is ~100mm^3/s then it fully makes sense. :)

@AndroidA258

Ай бұрын

@@PrintingPerspective its a dragon UHF, its around 45 to 50 on ABS, capping to 20 makes sure every layer has the same flowrate, the speeds are lower because of the cap but the accelerations are still there so its still quite fast

Infill before walls or after?

I do 2 walls, inner first, but then extra walls for infill so I have a minimum of 3 walls. My printer has some retraction ptoblems so I can't use more than 0.3mm retraction so I get some dripping... can't do outer wall first because seam looks like crap, sometimes even has a hole in it...

@evo8868

9 күн бұрын

Did you set lineaer advanced properly as well as your retraction speed? Also check M201 / M204 / M205 settings!

You make good job!

Unbelievable! I get damn near perfect prints now. All that time I spent sanding, spot filler, filler primer, sanding, more sanding...Unbelievable.

Gracias!!

That seems extremely helpful, i will try it out next since i have problems with part fitting... even though i must admit that i am using an 0.8 mm nozzle which could also affect the overall thinkess of the part walls. Thank you anyway for the recommendation. :) *Edit: I also want to ask something else depending on the settings I usually use. To be more specific, I am using a much lower printing speed for the outer walls vs the inner and the infill, do you think that this is for the better, doesn't matter? or does it make things worse?

@urgamecshk

Ай бұрын

Depends on your setup. Can you print with the same quality at a higher speed?

@jimidjoriginal9295

Ай бұрын

@@urgamecshk I can print great up to 100 mm/s, at least when it comes to wall speed. The infill starts to underextrude after 80 mm/s for some kind of reason. Anyway, i have already tried the above method from outer to inner wall and worked absolutely amazing for part fittings, which was my purpose. The printing clearences decreased from 0.4-0.5 mm to only 0.1 mm (most likely due to some over extrusion), keep in mind that i am using a 0.8 mm nozzle and due to the extra drooping i saw a decrease of quality (underextrusion) in the begining of the outer wall but in generall the quality was absolutely perfect after that certain point. Btw i am using a Creality spider speedy ceramic hotend and an almost stock CR10S printer.

Can you experiment with simplify 3d for the bambu labs printers?

Trying this today on my Bambu x1c I wonder if a benchy would show any improvement.

@roobtoob2

16 күн бұрын

I just watched this video and was thinking the same - I have to wait a couple hours to try it - Waiting on a print job to finish, and it has about 2 hours left. Inner/Outer setting looks like it's the the default (on Bambu Studio - Also running the latest 1.9.1.66). Did changing it from Inner/Outer to Inner/Outer/Inner it make a noticeable difference on yours?

@fiftycalguru

16 күн бұрын

@@roobtoob2 nope. At least none I could visibly see. The benchys looked identical.

what print speeds for the inner and outer wall did you use in the tests?

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

150/175 mm/s

I'll try that. In Cura it's called "Wall Ordering". Also, if you find a solution for those Bulged lines which some people refer to as "Benchy hull line" we'd all be grateful, since not even Prusa found a solution in their article about it.

@thebigdr

Күн бұрын

Thanks. Wondered where Cura had that

how do i do this on prusaslicer?

One bit of information missing is the difference in settings you were using for inner vs out walls? Would you get these results if both were being printed at the same speed/flow? What is the speed difference you were using here?

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

It was 150/175mm/s speed, not too fast but not too slow either. You won't as the reason why we see such a huge improvement by printing the outer wall before the adjacent inner one is printed is because then the outer wall extrusion is not affected by the inner wall.

Inner out inner is the best but remember overhangs will perform worse, so you need to lower the layer height to help compensate. Also Orca and Bambu slicer do a crap job of converting arcs when using arachne, so run it through arc welder afterwards.

@Festivejelly

Ай бұрын

Also if you have an X1C you can just add an extra aux fan on the right and your overhangs will be much better.

Where is that setting in Prusa slicer 🤔

So suggested one is inner/outer/inner. What about outer/inner setting?

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

I mean, give it a try, it is very easy to do that. In my opinion, the iw/ow/iw order makes more sense for better results.

Nice tip, thank you! Can you (or someone else) tell me which printer it is at 3:22 ? it looks nice and simple with bed swinger and linear rails.

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

That's my fully modded KP3S PRO S1 - www.printables.com/model/433170-kp3s-pro-s1-dual-rail-z-axis-mod (main mod). It has so many mods that it is anything rather than the KP3S PRO anymore lol.

Can you share your settings? I used PETG and tried changing the outer wall layer first but the effect did not change

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Have you tried with PLA? I saw the least improvement with PETG on my prints, but that was with one very shiny bright filament.

@congmanhle6597

Ай бұрын

@@PrintingPerspective PLA is very easy to print, even the clear wall printing setting before it still has good results

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Yeah, but this setting is mainly about extrusion consistently. I wish I could give you suggestions with PETG but I barely print it nowadays.

@congmanhle6597

Ай бұрын

Thank you very much . Hopefully one day you can make a video about PETG

I've actually had difficult prints succeed using IOI that were failing after several other tries.

Please do share the extruder mount.

Thanks for the video. I wonder why this is not default.

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

So far I only found a single scenario where printing OW first was printing in mid-air because of the clever design made for printing IW first. I need to run this for way longer on more variety of prints to fully understand why it is not the default. I see more positives than negatives so far.

@bluerider0988

Ай бұрын

@@PrintingPerspective So I've found a potential downside. When printing multiple parts, as the nozzle moves from one part to another there is a small defect that occurs as the nozzle begins to extrude again on the next part. Since your printing the outer perimeter first that defect shows up looking like a bulge in the side of the part. You wouldn't see this with inner perimeters first. I'm not sure how to tune that out at the moment so I'm going to stick with inner perimeters first on multiple part prints. Maybe you have some ideas?

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

@@bluerider0988 are you sure you are using the Inner/Outer/Inner wall ordering option? This can only happen if you use Outer/Inner order or your prints are too thin.

@bluerider0988

Ай бұрын

@@PrintingPerspective I'm using the option to print external perimeters first in Prusa Slicer. It's very hard to explain without pictures. Essentially what I'm seeing is when the nozzle traverses to the new part the place where it touches down and begins to extrude leaves an imperfection. Since this is on an outer perimeter it's visible. If you print the inner perimeters first you won't see this imperfection because it'll be inside the part.

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

I understand what you are saying, those imperfections are normal if you try to print the OW first. It will be very hard to tune it, you need perfect retractions. That is why I specifically used the inner/outer/inner order. You should give Orca Slicer a fair try, it is hands down the best slicer at this moment in my opinion.

Would be great if slicers were smarter and could do outer walls first except when it results in floating sections

@ferdinandhenkel4567

Ай бұрын

Jeah. I think there is still an insane amount of optimization to do when it comes to slicers.

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Compared to when I was getting into 3D printing and using Cura to today's Orca Slicer, it's like day and night, we have so many great features now that it is crazy. But yeah I have no doubt that SoftFever will optimize it down the line.

This setting made me realize how underwhelming the StealthBurner’s cooling is. Moving over to a DragonBurner so I can turn this back on with ABS

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Yeah, the Stealthburner is more for looks, its cooling is very weak, though it is enough for ABS.

I'm having a hard time believe it, but since you are saying and showing it I do believe. And then I'm having a hard time to understand why is it better. I mean, what does happens to make it better?

*Poor filament OD, Z axis and temperatures accuracy and precision are the main parameters driving how impactful that feature is from my personal experiences (backed with the theory). Hence the more accurate your printing setup the less of an impact this feature makes, which explains why people report so vastly different results. One major drawback of starting with external perimeter is that it (can) makes the seams more visible. Again, this is very dependent on how accurately tuned is one's printing setup. However, as stated in the video, printing inner wall first, outer second, mid third cames with almost no drawback, while retaining the benefits of simply starting with the outer wall. That's quite annoying that prusaslicer hasn't implemented this feature yet (maybe because the relevant issues are almost non-existing on prusa machines using dried Prusament).

OUTSIDE before inside also stops infill from showing.

Very interesting video. Do you have links to that test object and your overhang test?

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

I updated the description with all the links to the files :)

@Dustmuffins

Ай бұрын

@@PrintingPerspective great! I really like your overhang test. How I've been testing overhangs was I put 4 benchies in a cross pattern and cut the tops off, but yours is far more elegant and effective 😂

@PrintingPerspective

Ай бұрын

Because the shape of each direction is very similar to the front of the 3DBenchy, that is where I got my inspiration as the front of the benchy is difficult to print with average cooling. ;D

@Dustmuffins

Ай бұрын

@@PrintingPerspective that's funny to hear, considering that's how I handled cooling testing! Keep up the great work!