Nailed every point! In a world where other brands are making strides to explore more than what they're known for, like Harman with phoenix 200, Kodak needs to sort out it's understanding of the market and what is actually easily available for its users.

@eeeeeek

7 ай бұрын

their user is old.. with lots of money ready to spend

@francesconicoletti2547

7 ай бұрын

I almost understand the niche for modern day non professional motion picture film camera. As you said film students and the like. But if it’s priced at the four figures level perhaps not super 8 maybe 16mm. Despite the comments I have seen 8mm was never the cool medium, it was the one for dads and proms and Disneyland. 16mm was the film that did all the Art stuff. Its the one you edited with a razor blade and a bit of tape.

@francesconicoletti2547

7 ай бұрын

@@eeeeeekthen why does it look like its a prop from a dystopian Netflix show rather than one of the better designed 8mm cameras from last century ? Even the most modern mirrorless still camera tries to look like a 35mm film camera from last century to keep the olds comfortable.

I wanted this to succeed! I been watching this from the beginning, thought it was a great idea at $400 to $800 when first announced, then it went to $2500.00 I was concerned. Now at +5k...ugh. I been buying super 8 cameras at thrift shops, some are in mint condition and never paid more than $40.00. The biggest concern is the development and scan service cost. I have a soft spot for Kodak and a nostalgia for the brand, but I think this is a project that went off the rails unfortunately. They could have sold so much film and development if they kept the price of the camera lets say $1500.00. But, then again was this not the problem experienced with Kodak before they went bankrupt and not responding to the market when digital was in their hands and saying film will always be what we sell?

@3313photography

7 ай бұрын

I'm right there with ya, I think even the 2500 dollar price point could be somewhat justified, if they maybe included a few more features or lenses in the kit. But I also have the same concern, are they going to keep to their word and provide the backend work of the developing and scanning process. I sadly doubt they will. But we will have to just wait and see. Hopefully it won't take another 3 years to get an update on that

Great video! I posted one recently with my theories on why the camera costs so much. As for the the bundled film/develop/scan/etc. I don't think it's going to happen in the near future. Kodak needs to sell a lot of cameras to get back on track with their original plan.

This is a big disappointment for me. I love Super-8. I have multiple Super-8 cameras and there's no way I can justify the price of this over taking a risk on a replacement Canon 1014XLS. $5K USD is simply out of the question.

The honestly could've just made a very simple, reliable Super 8 camera and they would've sold well

@Ni5ei

7 ай бұрын

Absolutely! But noooo, they had to introduce some kind of digital interface otherwise young people wouldn't understand how to operate it (I can see no other reason). Well guess what Kodak; young people are having no problems with Fuji Instax either so stick to the basics and you could've sold lots of cameras and film (at least if you would offer flms with development & scanning included in the price).

If you look at what is available in the marketplace, what are the features/price points available? A '70s refurb for $3000? True that Kodak ended up with premium features and costs because the customers turned out to be professional videographers vs hobby pro-sumers. That is where they pivoted with the tech and features after talking with customer willing to pay. Setting "Walmart Consumer" expectations in the market (with no data) at the beginning was a mistake in hindsight, but this camera is not an engineering fail. That said, they have back orders and can sell every one they make and the costs will come down with experience. Would you rather have the imaginary consumer $600 never, or perhaps the $1200 someday? It is easy for people to sit in Social Media and consider this stuff a "do-job". Generations have passed and technology has changed. Kudos to Kodak for taking this on!

@WaybackRewind

4 ай бұрын

What professionals are shooting on 8mm? That has been a consumer format since day 1. No serious filmmaker would shoot with this camera.

@BenGibsSr

4 ай бұрын

Perhaps none, but many speak of using it in college and as they were learning their craft. @kRewind

@WaybackRewind

4 ай бұрын

@@BenGibsSr Yes many shot on 8mm back in the day, including myself, because it was cheap and it was available. Today, positioning it as a premium, (i.e. expensive) product for professionals will fail spectacularly in my opinion. Outside of a few nostalgic wealthy filmmakers there is very limited market at this price.

@BenGibsSr

4 ай бұрын

I see your point but there may be a limited market regardless. Honestly, I don't think there is good market segmentation data for TAM. Right now, they can sell all they can make at the current price point. So they do. The good news is volume should drive it down. BUT it isn't a mass market category (Like Dcams or TVs) where they can forward price a loss and take that risk. Chicken and Egg. @@WaybackRewind

I wanted this to succeed also!! But remember Kodak camera division gave us the binocular-shaped sound on film camera that did not catch on with the S8 movement. If you just step back and consider the marketing issues of trying to go back and find a market for a camera that recorded on film but had an LCD screen for monitoring, all this would take more time to work out. Kodak definitely jumped the gun with its 2016 announcement. If they are still serious they will offer some sort of package where negative film is processed and scanned (one light setting, no scene color correction). Maybe they should consider partnering with a notable Super 8 manufacturer in Japan like ELMO or CANON which still has vintage cameras on sale on eBay? Independent filmmakers would want to know the film path specifications, ie: is there a prism system or is the film exposed before the video pick up? I had a Beaulieu 6008pro and to me that camera could have added a video tap and done almost the same thing. Adding a sound recorder is NOT necessary in my opinion as any filmmaker can get an inexpensive SD card-based Zoom or Tascam unit with external mic inputs. If Kodak could've simplified this camera with some classy add-ons like different lens mount systems ( re: BMD cameras) and possibly a new 200-foot load of silent film using Lithium Ion rechargeables and a plug-in option the camera would be more attractive to young and older filmmakers, IMHO.

Kodak could, like Polaroid, create an alternative project and a more profitable project by reviving the Polavision system at a new level.

What's really disappointing is that the concept behind Kodak products from the beginning was to bring photography and home movies to the masses through affordable cameras, film, and processing. Someone must have forgotten to tell that to the executives who make the decisions at Kodak.

I meet him tdy. show some luv to this guy.

Nothing is like film. I think the cost will come down. I would like to have one some day. With modern computer editing, it will be amazing.

Years and years ago I had a Kodak Super 8 camera. It was very frustrating to run out of footage very quickly. You can't shoot much on 50 feed of film. We have come so far with digitalization I just can't imagine spending money on this film. If one absolutely must go back to analog filmmaking, at the price Kodak is asking one can certainly find other alternatives, even if in the used market. I suspect the whole idea behind this camera is to make money on the sale of cartridges and presumably the processing costs. We've come a long long way since then. I love my DJO Osmo Pocket 3 and see no reason to go back to analog.

If this camera had and automatic develop and digitalization of the film in dng cine format inside the camera directly to ur sd It would justify the price. But it is not like this right?

@3313photography

7 ай бұрын

Nope, no internal video recording whatsoever. Only audio recording to sync up in post.

@MarcoKatITA

7 ай бұрын

@@3313photography so it is just a waste

Might as well not put that out at all.

At best, I see this camera being good for renting out for a few days. With the price they charge for buying it, personally I’d rather pay around $140 to rent it out. Other than that, for what it is, I do see potential for this product given this is the only new Super 8 camera being manufactured

You can get decently into 16mm for WAY less than this. Such a sad letdown.

i mean you have to REALLY REALY REALLY love super 8. lmao

If it was 16mm it might be worth the price

I’m wondering just who has placed an order for one, or more of these insanely expensive super 8mm cameras. I mean, there must be people filling out the form and reserving them.. or the product and advertising would quietly go away. I’ll be surprised if anyone actually makes it known that they bought one.

Kind of like Red's Scarlet 3k for 3k when first announced. We know how that turned out.

This project has turned into a big joke. 1) Excitement. A modern 8mm filmcamera. 2) Dead for years. 3) Ridiculous pricing. I almost get the impression that this project failed during its development and that they just dont want anyone to buy the outcome. Btw: You can get a Braun Nizo, one of the top 8mm cameras ever (and an absolute beauty to look at) for like 30-50,- if you're lucky. So did I.

At least 50%, of the price increase probably comes from inflationary pressures. I can’t find a decent breakfast burrito in Southern California for under $10 anymore.

@theowainwright7406

7 ай бұрын

Learn to do maths

Just for reference in 1965 a Beaulieu regular 8 wind up camera with C Mount interchangeable lenses cost $475.00 which in 2023 would be $4423.

@3313photography

7 ай бұрын

I definately can understand that point of view as I've seen similar statements made in regards to this camera. My only issue is that in 1965, those were fairly high end cameras for consumers. That was the technology of the time hence its high end price tag for the time. Today we have mirrorless cameras with stacked sensors with 8k image quality that cost 5k dollars. I understand that a super 8 camera in 2023 is a very niche product. But even with the handful of modern amenities that make it a tiny bit easier to shoot super 8, the current asking price is outlandish.

@theowainwright7406

7 ай бұрын

@3313photography well to be fair the economies of scale right now for a digital camera so far outstrip the numbers of these that Kodak would sell that the price doesn’t seem insanely outlandish

@nathanpiperphoto

7 ай бұрын

This just completely ignores consumer choice and the current state of the film/digital camera market though. There have never been more film/digital motion picture and stills cameras, new and high-quality used, on the market than today. It's a completely different market from 1965. I mean are you really buying this for $5500? And if you are, is there no part of your brain that says, "Huh, I wonder what other camera gear I could have bought with that money or less, which could have gotten me similar results?" Everyone's going to make that calculus and what's going to happen is few individual consumers are going to buy, and the rest of the sales will come from retail stores/operations that buy to rent these out, which is fine. I just hope that's enough for Kodak to fund further development of this product line. Maybe they are banking on increased motion picture film sales and development chemicals through this, but I know margins are tight there.

@nathanpiperphoto

7 ай бұрын

@@theowainwright7406 Economies of scale this, inflation calculation that... this all just completely ignores consumer choice and the current state of the film/digital camera market. There have never been more film/digital motion picture and stills cameras, new and high-quality used, on the market than today. It's a competitive market and there are tons of cheaper, equal-quality options available for videographers and photographers to achieve similar results to what they could do with this. It's outlandish to think this will be wildly successful, but I hope for Kodak's sake it somehow is so they can build out the product line.

This is going to turn into free marketing for Kodak if and when celebrities starting buying them and using them. I'm pretty sure that's what Kodak target audience was. I've seen celebrities before this thing was ever an idea using Super8 for the last 10yrs

I remember when this was advertised back in 2016. I kind of chuckled because it was Kodak. They're historically a poorly managed and run company. Tri-X is all I believe in and it will probably be gone pretty soon. Kodak is sabotaging themselves again.

@3313photography

5 ай бұрын

I beleive kodak actually just lowered the price on tri-x so hopefully that trend continues!

It's a concept camera at a ripped off price.

The camera is pointless. No zoom lens and it doesn't even have a viewfinder. Great when you're filming in bright sunlight. And 16:9? No thanks. The "limited edition" is probably a small run they did back in 2016 and since they've given up on it they might as well sell what they have for a premium price.

Really dissapointed with Kodak. The Super 8 camera is just unaffordable, and I sooo DISLIKE the odd video style camera body. No real film viewfinder either? Kodak team, what on earth were you thinking? You're supposed to make the Super 8 camera and film affordable for all, not put people off. Take note of all the comments across social media, it might help you. Here endith the lesson :)

Complete fail. 5g’s? Come on. For 5 grand you can buy a fleet of super 8 cameras and have them all serviced, take the 2000$ left overs and buy film.

Kodak have lost the plot why not just reintroduce a standard Super 8 camera that everyone can afford I wish Fuji would bring back there Single 8 afar better system than Super 8 with its ability to bacwind the film the Elephant is in the room Kodak should do what they do best analogue film

It would have been better than for example have some cartridge available that as a MINIMUM one can record an hour! It would be PERFECT if in real time (do it yourself) when you are recording cartridge is immediately digitized into the memory of the camera.... is it so hard to do this? if tectonics has advanced a lot, for me you have no excuses!, but I guess it's something that I still won't see..

@playerpage

4 ай бұрын

The film has to process before it can be scanned, so "seeing what you filmed" (quotations mine) isn't really an option that way--HOWEVER, they could record the video feed so that there is at least a nominal record of what was filmed on the camera. Much easier to decide WHICH cartridges to develop, for instance. But the video on the new Super8 isn't recorded, I don't think....

It's a joke!

This product would be overpriced at $500.

@Old-School-Liberal

7 ай бұрын

What a dumb comment

It’s inflation man 🤣

@WaybackRewind

4 ай бұрын

Pretty sure we have not had 500% inflation since 2016.

@yesofcourse3324

4 ай бұрын

@@WaybackRewind Yeah that’s my point. Hence the laughing face.

@WaybackRewind

4 ай бұрын

@@yesofcourse3324 oh got it now 🤣

This seems like a totally pointless product.

I don’t know if you’re privy to this info, but Kodak aren’t even the ones who designed the camera, it was the Danish company Logmar.

@3313photography

4 ай бұрын

I didn't know that! The plot thickens! 😂