🧡 If you find benefit in my videos, consider supporting the channel by joining us on Patreon and get fun extras like exclusive videos, ad-free audio-only versions, and extensive show notes: www.patreon.com/dougsseculardharma 🙂

His story is one of the most amazing, he represented the worst and the best in humanity.

@DougsDharma

7 ай бұрын

🙏😊

I suppose that the moral of the story could be that, "if Angulimala can make it on the Buddhist path, then so can any of the rest of us" With due diligence of course.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly so John, if he can do it we can too.

@atontieren3897

2 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma Not so Again. Angulimala was student with the sharpest and highest faculty among all the students of the Budha. The smartest. If he can，most likely you can't.

@johnhaller7017

2 жыл бұрын

@@atontieren3897 So I should give up?

@atontieren3897

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnhaller7017 Will you? Just because someone said something?

@johnhaller7017

2 жыл бұрын

@@atontieren3897 "Most likely you can't" is your summation not mine. I have encouraged people to follow the Buddha's Noble eightfold Path and one does not have to be one of the Buddha's premier disciples to do so, is what I say. Your words are empty.

In the version of this story that I've heard, Angulimala starts off as a student named Ahinsaka (meaning innocent). He excels at his studies causing his peers become jealous of his achievements. This leads them to circulate rumors about him causing him to fall out of favor with his teacher. It is his teacher, in an effort to get rid of him, that tells him to kill a thousand people (thinking that it is impossible and ahinsaka is bound to die at one point) setting the stage for the rest of his story. It tells the story of a good person that falls from grace due to the unwholesome actions of those around him and due to blindly following his teacher's word, but is eventually able to change his ways with the help of the Buddha. I do not know how accurate this version of the story is regarding what really happened and even though Angulimala's origins do not contain a message that is heavily relevant to the dharma (in comparison with the rest of the story) I do think its worth mentioning nonetheless.

@gimakolla3708

2 жыл бұрын

This part should be added to the begining of this video..

@cjdevries

2 жыл бұрын

This is the version I've read as well. Ahimsaka was an excellent student. His teacher's wife became a good friend to him. The other students were jealous of his excellence so they spread rumors to his teacher and made him feel that maybe Ahimsaka was having an affair with his wife. So in an effort to get rid of him, his teacher gave him a command to kill a thousand people and that was supposed to be his initiation into the higher teachings; sort of like "if you go and kill 1,000 people I'll give you the higher teachings". The teacher demanded a thousand fingers of the victims according to the story. Ahimsaka objected to this command, but eventually decided to comply. Back then, when the guru gave you a command, you did it, apparently.

@wolfk2258

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent post. What if Angulimala had not objected and went off his merry way with Buddha's first instruction (that he, Angulimala, had never killed a living being) -- what happens then? Does the Buddha let him go, foregoing this missed teaching moment? Does he stop Angulimala and express a wiser approach? How does Buddha handle it?

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Yes this is part of the later legend that grew up around the original core of the story about Angulimala. For the original story see for example Majjhima Nikāya 86.

These biographical videos are quite enjoyable, and very much appreciated! Thank you!

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoy them Dosia!

@uuutuuube3691

2 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma What I took from the lecture today is that the Buddha would have allowed a prince to join his Sangha but not a reformed criminal. If that is correct that is a problem to me. I actually hope I have misunderstood

I'm a drug addict who has a past that involves violence and I identify strong with the story of angulimala. I know I am not like analogous to the guy, and that he was much much more... Well worse than I was. But there's something about the story about being a pariah and criminal within the fringes of society that I have identified with. Being seen as a terror or a danger to people. Abd the idea of redemption and atonement within that society has always been important to me. I've not been free from substances. But I have been free from violence, both against myself and others for many years now. I'm not a perfect or enlightened being. But thanks to the dhamma, and thanks to being able to see the consequences of my violence directly in the people who were harmed by it, I am a much Kinder and much less angry and violent human being. Far from perfect, but I no longer wear a finger garland.

@DougsDharma

8 ай бұрын

That's wonderful to hear, all the best to you on your journey. 🙏

The Angulimala paritta - The truth Act of Ven.Angulimala , is used in Sri Lanka by almost every Buddhist mother at their pregnancy.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Yes I've heard this too! Thanks Gima.

Hi dough.. I am from Sri Lanka as a born Theravada buddhist. If you you want to see the true bodhi tree under which lord Buddha enlightened,come and see the right branch of that bodhi tree in sri lanka. Nun arhath sanghamiththa brought the right side branch of bodhi tree as a plant from India to Sri lanka in 2339 BCE. So far.. We protect that bodhi tree in Anuradhapura MAHAMEWNA garden.And we do much respect up to now. Go under that bodhi tree, your mind will calm down and full with happy.. Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu..🇱🇰🇱🇰

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks very much! 🙏🙂

@newfilmtrailer7733

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry sorry.. " in 2339 BCE should be corrected as 239 BCE.. Upto now,the time period in years is 2239 years. Sorry a little mistake...

@sbamatsa989

Жыл бұрын

Hi, I trust that you are well. Would you kindly recommend books I can read, regarding Buddhism? Something with a first step to enlightenment, to even deeper topics. In chronological order. please. And thank you.

Hey, Doug. These long-form biographical videos are excellent. Thank you!

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

You're very welcome John, glad you like them!

Wonderful video! The story of Angulimala has always been a personal favorite of mine.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Yes it's a very interesting one! Thanks Div.

Hi Dough. Thanks for doing this video. Personally for me, the Angulimala story is also about the hope of liberation for all beings. As long as one is able to turn away from unwholesome ways and cultivate wholesome ways, he/she can have the opportunity to attain liberation.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Yes exactly so KY, it's telling us that anyone can become liberated if they only follow the proper practices.

@Hanuma12354

2 жыл бұрын

One cannot "Attain" Liberation. It is : One is liberated by right efforts

@Hanuma12354

2 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharmaHi,!). Become Liberated.??

Doug- thank you for all you do to produce this channel! Is there a chance that you'll do one of these biographical videos covering Mahakasyapa?

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe eventually, I'll put it on the list. 🙂

Love these videos, just subbed

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Awesome, thank you!

Hey Doug . Im going through the mill at the moment . Your vids keep my chin up . Cheers big ears.. .

@DougsDharma

Жыл бұрын

😄 You got this!

I'm pretty into Buddhism and I really appreciate your videos. I'm also mostly secular and very interested in stoicism and philosophy in general though my education is business oriented. I feel like your work has come to me at a perfect time in my life when im coming into integrating the teachings/practices of the buddha into my life. Thanks!

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Wonderful to hear xanthony00, it’s my pleasure!

Thanks for sharing 🙏 wish you stay safe and healthy.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

You as well Sophie, you're very welcome! 🙏🙂

@surangisilva3644

2 жыл бұрын

Hello i am a buddhist from sri lanka

great video

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks spiritguy!

Very nice and very knowledgeable

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you Rakeh! 🙏🙂

I feel inspiring when Buddha said "I have stop, but u haven't. I have stop harmful other people, but you still haven't stop." I feel that Anggulimara will surrendar because of the being of Buddha, and also miraculous + the inspiring word of Buddha, that straight to his heart. Regarding what Buddha told him to say to the lady , I feel that Buddha want to guide him to let go of the guilt in the pass, that now he has reborn again in noble path, not the murder anymore. He have a new life ! Let go of the guilt of the pass, just he can move forward and improve in the noble path. Quite inspiring story to show us that, although we all have done some bad deed in the pass, but as long as we have stop it, and walk the noble path, we all can have a new life. About what you said that Buddha might want to let the villager know that Anggulimara have reborn as noble disciple, will not murder anymore, so that they can feel safe, this make sense also. Thank you for sharing the video 🙏

@DougsDharma

4 ай бұрын

🙏😊

Very interesting story.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it. 🙏

Not story'. But one of the real life incidents of Buddh and Angulimal life. Namo Buddhay 🙏🏼 🙏🏼. 👌🏼💪🏼

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Well presumably so, but also a good story! 🙂

Wow, very interesting, thank you!! Side question: I've heard the Vinaya pronounced two different ways: vin-i-a and vin-ay-a. Based off the spelling, it looks to me that it would be pronounced vin-ay-a but you along with Thanissaro Bhikkhu pronounce it as vin-i-a. Is there one right way of pronouncing it or are they both right?

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think it really matters, I've heard it pronounced both ways too.

@Darkknight-qu6qp

2 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma Vinaya is pronounced as in Sanskrit whereas vinia in pali language.

Thank You for Your efforts. Sadhu,Sadhu,Sadhu.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

🙏 😊

This story is a good example from early Busshism point of view because Buddha, the good teacher, can teach Angulimala how to be polite and how to speak the truth. Also, the monkThaeingu,who was a robber, became a famous arahant last 40 years ago in Burma because of Buddha's Dhamma. Buddha's Dhamma is wonderful. Wonders will never cease! If I'm not mistaken, modern psychology or behavioural science can not change from one's bad behavior to good behavior.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Well I think many modern psychologists are learning a lot from Buddhist practices.

Please make a series of Buddhist conversion .

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

I have one from awhile back: kzread.info/dash/bejne/a5uZm7BukdqYesY.html

Nice video Doug. I was wondering how this story of Angulimala compares to the story of Milarepa, in the sense that both are about people who have committed grave crimes, but went on to become buddhists and even attain realization.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, interesting Andrés, there does seem to be a parallel in that they were both murderers who became prominent Buddhist practitioners. Though whether there was any influence from the earlier story to Milarepa's I don't know. Perhaps someone has done a study.

Thanks

@DougsDharma

Жыл бұрын

🙏😊

Buddham saranam gachami . Namo budha

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

🙏🙂

I am from sri lanka ...i am a buddhist 🙏🙏❤❤

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

🙏🙂

Sir i am your new subscriber from the country of buddha 🙏🙏namo buddhay

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks and welcome! 🙏 🙂

Hi Doug! That was really interesting how the Buddha changed the rules after the trouble with the lay people after taking in Angulimala. What was the Buddhas rules regarding women in the Sangha? Were they accepted anytime?

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Oh yes they were accepted as nuns nearly since the beginning. See my earlier video: kzread.info/dash/bejne/ampozdV9f73diM4.html . Though there have been recent issues with them among some conservative traditionalists: kzread.info/dash/bejne/a6Cc28ybmNWvgtY.html

Buddha's approach to Angulimal has a strong similarity to Mahatma Gandhi's method of civil disobedience and Satyagraha. In fact, Gandhi studied Buddha in great detail before launching his campaigns.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

That wouldn't surprise me Apurv, thanks again.

Hey Doug, Could you explain the meaning of Andhakara Sutta ,I've heard it talks about Black holes...?

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Well it basically says that there are very, very dark places in the universe. I don't think it has anything to do with black holes though.

@gimakolla3708

2 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma but there is the word 'Holes' atleast..

@user-Void-Star

2 жыл бұрын

Do you mean black vajra hell? Yes that is similar to a black hole.

@gimakolla3708

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-Void-Star I dont know..this is from therawada tripitaka - Andhakara sutra..

@netineti5953

2 жыл бұрын

“There is, bhikshus, a groundless abysmal dark, a blinding darkness of the spaces amongst the worlds [an intergalactic dark], where even the lights of the moon and the sun, so mighty as they are, cannot prevail.

What I'm getting from the truth Act is the following: Angulimala much like everyone else became a part of this "world". Of mental constructs and egos. He was led by those who led him, told by those who told him, and worshipped by those who worshiped him. Made him believe that what he was doing was right in his own context. But then he became, enlightened or awakened ( please mind I do not know if there is a difference between the two). In his "enlightened state" or " Avatar state " he controlled and maneuvered his Avatar diligently and without cause. Therefore left all that behind and was reborn. he learnt and unlearned, forgave and moved on. Therefore in his truth Act, did not lie. For there were two people, him and Himself.

If you can understand what the Buddha taught, you are such a smart person because not anyone can understand his teachings . I can say that there are a lot of Buddhists around the world, but only 0.1% of those people can understand only just a little bit about his teachings. Thank for creating this Chanel ❤️❤️👍👍👍👍👍

What is the word you keep saying that sounds like Shakian Aesthetics?

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Probably you mean "Sakyan ascetics". The Buddha was an ascetic from the Sakya tribe so he was a Sakyan ascetic.

There was an old story I remember of a bodhisattva who slew a ferry man who had intended to rob and kill him and the monks with him. Which I imagine was a hypothetical situation created to teach a lesson, the bodhisattva chose to take the karmic debt that the thief would've incurred upon himself

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting Moon Cabbage, it sounds like a story from the Jātakas.

😊🙏🏻

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

🙏🙂

Nice vedio....do you know there is angulimala thero's relics in Sri Lanka....you can search it on KZread as "angulimala maha saaya,"

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your input Kithmini.

🙏🙏🙏

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

🙏🙂

In my version of the story buddha says "I have stopped moving a long time ago I have arrived It is you who is going somewhere else" I interpret this as buddha had arrived to get killed to get this mans wish fullfiled but it him who wouldn't stop to kill him.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting, thanks beelzebub.

I think the Buddha told him to say he hadn’t killed anyone with reference to Angulimalas transcendence of his ego. The Buddha wanted Angulimala to stop seeing himself as Angulimala; to let go of his ego/history. As a transcendent being, no longer being Angulimala, it would be true to say he hasn’t killed anyone.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Possibly so though the Buddha doesn't usually speak in such terms about karma.

6:55 7:10 '...beg for alms, beg for food...'??? Do monks *beg* for food? Or perhaps *RECEIVE* food/s or whatever given to them! 7:57 11:24 ''alms round'' perfect! No offence intended Doug. Love your videos!!!

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Well yes, it's usually described as "begging". The word for monk, "bhikkhu", literally means "beggar" in Pāli. The Sanskrit root is "bhikṣ" which means "to beg".

@thetruthseeker5448

2 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma Thanks!

Its hard to put into words but sometimes I get the feeling when the Buddha spoke he got time confused (almost like he removed time from the way he speaks so it can sound confusing to those that hear him) such as with Ananda and the nuns and now with this sutra, he says something that would appear past related but when questioned is willing to make it relate to the present so they could understand his meaning.

@brianvitagliano975

2 жыл бұрын

Though I admit, it could just be my mind trying to justify Buddha's actions or misinterpretations.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Yes it's hard to say!

The reason why the buddha was walking through angulimala's territory was because the buddha knew that Angulimala has reached a point where he was willing to kill his own mother (the woman who is in the picture) in order to collect the final finger. His mother was searching for him so she can talk some sence into him. The buddha wanted to prevent Angulimala from murdering his own mother and making the biggest mistake of his life. When Angulimala saw the buddha passing by, he decided to murder the buddha instead. Or at least that's what I was taught in school. I really love and appreciate the videos doug. Lot of love from Sri Lanka 🇱🇰

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

You're very welcome Dasun! The story with his mother appears to be from a later tradition. At least, it doesn't appear in the suttas.

Is it not the case that had Anguilimala been perceiving truth transcendent of personality, birth death and rebirth then what Buddha said would have been a truth act? Then having heard his response and seen that Anguilimala wasn't quite there modified the truth act to accommodate his ignorance yet remain a truth act?

Would it be that Angulimala saw himself as strong. Often times the harming see harming as being strong. "That's what people do" . And so he believes that every decision is I fact his own. For example "scratching an itch is my own decision ". But then again , I believe an enlightened person would not see it as such. Therefore when the Buddha suggested that Angulimala could not,not Murder even if he wanted to... Then Angulimala realized this within himself. That he who believed his choice is his, suddenly he could not best this person infront him by proving that he couldn't murder him. Yet he was so enraged with wanting to murder. Point why he would want to prove to him : because he things he is strong. Stronger than everybody else. I mean he can kill, con and steal the most. Airgo.. he can outsmart even the wisest of the wise. But! That was not the case

Could you do something about stealing?

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

How do you mean?

@zamfiramiheli4717

2 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma About a person in Buddhists literature, who was stealing. You could actually simply say me a name. I like to read the Suttas on my own. Thanx.

i think you missed Angulimala's end where he was killed by the locals but managed to get the Buddha moments before his death and Buddha advised him to bear the pain as the karma that could have led him to thousands of years in hell is being experienced by him right in this life.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Where is this from?

The story of Angulimal is widely taught in school textbooks in India... One of the good things that our sadistic education system has

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Ah interesting, thanks Apurv.

I feel the legend of Angulimala also led to the development of depicting people such as Emperor Ashoka as extremely violent figures before they convert/embrace Buddhism in order to glorify Buddhism.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Possibly so, though to my knowledge Asoka's earlier violence isn't disputed.

@sonamtshering194

2 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma I don't doubt Emperor Ashoka used to be a violent figure and killed his half-brothers, but to say that he killed 99 of his half-brothers as it was mentioned in the Ashokavadana seems to be an exaggerated figure to me. On the other hand, Tibetan historian Taranatha claiming that he killed six of his half-brothers seems more believable and realistic. What I am trying to say is that the legend of Angulimala may have played a key role in exaggerated depictions of great figures being highly violent/brutal before embracing Buddhism. I read that King Kanishka was also portrayed as a barbarian before converting to Buddhism

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

@@sonamtshering194 Yes that's quite possible. Many ancient stories get bigger in the retelling.

12:26 Does this mean a criminal cannot be a Buddhist?

@DougsDharma

Жыл бұрын

It means that they can't be ordained as a monastic, at least in some traditions. They can be lay practitioners though.

@lobsangsherap2559

Ай бұрын

If you read the biography of Milarepa … he killed numerous people and yet became the best known Yogi of Tibet . You should have enough good karma even to think you wanted to join monastic … Buddha’s teaching is available to all irrespective of one’s past life .

Doug, I find this disturbing and challenging. In fact it’s sort of annoying too. The murderer became a monk and the relatives of those he murdered fed him? And then he blessed a baby by lying about being a murderer. Then the Buddha banned murderers from being monks. I mean doesn’t anyone else see this fir what it must be - misremembered / mid translated BS? The only other conclusion that I can reach is that when one becomes a monk one undergoes a similar sort of ontological change that a Christian does when s/he becomes a “priest”. The heroes are the lay Buddhist who fed the lying murderer so he could be enlightened. And yet again, my concept of enlightenment comes crashing to the floor. I am a slow learner.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Well I think what's key here is the notion of change in all things, including ourselves and others.

@CosmicGorilla

2 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma I’ve been reflecting on this over night and I started to develop the notion that maybe not-self (anatma is it?) could join up with the “I have never murdered”. In extremis one could justify that as some form of truth. So, “in my current state of understanding I have not murdered” could be philosophically equivalent to “I have …”. It sounds a bit like, “In Christ I am a new creation and since I was born again I have not murdered.” Sorry about my initial post, I am confused not being intentionally rude.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

@@CosmicGorilla The Buddha didn't believe that karma went away when one became a monastic, this is why Angulimala had to undergo harsh treatment when he went on alms rounds. He was feeling the effects of his past actions. That said, he had made a sincere decision to change and at least to me it seems as though that's what made the difference. Our selves aren't fixed, they depend upon the character of our intentions among other things.

@CosmicGorilla

2 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma I’m hopeful that I’ll understand this properly one day. When I think I’m getting close I find that I’ve mixed up similar teachings from my fundamentalist Christian past. I then recoil from what seems like the same rubbish and then find something simpler left behind. I do see some progress though, but am I going to get there is a daunting question 😎 bless you sir.

I had been pondering the strange Buddha remark for Angulimala too recently. Of course the Buddha knew Angulimala was a murderer, so why did the Buddha give the first one as a untruth (or lie). An easy reply might be is that it just makes for a better story -- if Angulimala asks, the Buddha gives him the correct mantra, and he's on his way. Not so interesting. The reply raises some eyebrows. And perhaps it makes us aware of our past sins -- and dealing with them. Angulimala reminds the Buddha that he indeed has killed living beings. He has sinned, but this doesn't stop him from being able to help others. It's also interesting in that Angulimala in his reminder, corrects the Buddha, and expresses his reservation -- he just doesn't go out and do what the Buddha says. The Buddha then modifies his answer. Perhaps there's a lesson to be learned here.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, perhaps he was testing Angulimala, who knows?

Please note that hinduism came after Buddhism.

@DougsDharma

2 ай бұрын

Indeed, but Vedic Brahmanism came earlier.

What? The Buddha would not allow criminals to become Monks? That seems a fundamental problem to me.

@xXKillaBGXx

2 жыл бұрын

Whether you were a criminal or a prince, it makes no difference. Both are asleep to the dharma. As long as they denounced their criminal worldly ways and become devoted to following the dharma, I see no problem. The problem would be that if they continued their old ways.

@uuutuuube3691

2 жыл бұрын

@@xXKillaBGXx What I took from the lecture today is that the Buddha would have allowed a prince to join his Sangha but not a reformed criminal. If that is correct that is a problem to me. I actually hope I have misunderstood

@xXKillaBGXx

2 жыл бұрын

@@uuutuuube3691 Both a prince and criminal are deluded because they have not recognized and follow the dharma. They have an opportunity to undo their bad karma and follow the dharma.

@uuutuuube3691

2 жыл бұрын

@@xXKillaBGXx OK first, I am trying to understand whether the fact - suggested by the lecture - that reformed criminals couldnt be part of the Sangha is correct or not. I'll google it

@uuutuuube3691

2 жыл бұрын

Googling it didn't provide an answer. Anybody know the answer ?

The original story was that Mala was a young beautiful young man, with high respect to teachers and The possible way to liberation. He since was very young has served his master in his home. The master's wife want to have sex with Mala. Mala being a very decent young man, a young man with high moral ground and pure heart, refused to do so. The wife was so angry that she told the master that Mala triedto rape her. The master, with great anger but a little concern over killing him directly, chose to mislead him, telling Mala that you have always wanted to find ways to liberate, and here you will get them: kill 100 people and you will be freed from samsara. Mala was very shocked but he felt obliged to obey the master and started killing. The Buddha appreciated the beautiful nature of Mala and that's why he wanted to help.There are many places he was misleading the listener.

@atontieren3897

2 жыл бұрын

Another huge point the man is misleading people is the time length. Mala was a man of virtue, the killing happened only after the master misled him to kill. The whole killing process happened in less than half a day. The original story tells that mala’s mother worried about his son because he went out in the morning and didn’t come back. She prepared lunch for his son and set out to look for his son. Mala saw his mom but would continue to kill her anyway. The Buddha though if he killed his mother, that would be a karma too heavy to be cleaned and he would be no way to be saved. So the Buddha went interfered. This is a very important part of original story.

@atontieren3897

2 жыл бұрын

The basically mala only went crazy killing people and killed 99people within half a day. He was in a state of losing mind and was actually prompted by the evil mastered. According to dharma, his actions , until his possible killing of his mother, was out of a madness in an impulse , stimulated by others. And he was by nature , a beautiful and decent young man, killing only out of respect to the master. He has in all ways the right to be acquitted. Some what like nowadays in court , you have mental issues and you will be acquitted. There are deeper meanings but i think what I said is already clarifying a lot.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Yes Aton, this is the later legendary story that arose around the original core story about Angulimala. You can't find the story you mention in the Nikāyas, only the story I was referring to in the video.

@atontieren3897

2 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma Not according to my knowledge. Pali version were partly written down in 5th or 6th century AD. My version is from at least 4th century AD. And both were translation of older version.

I wonder why there are so many people telling incomplete and distorted Buddha stories

@ogedeh

2 жыл бұрын

You must be enlightened

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

It may be because some folks are interested in the early tradition rather than the later stories that grew out of that tradition.

@atontieren3897

2 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma One of my earlier versions also tells that in Mala‘s last life，he was a pure prince, refusing to accept a wife. Finally his father really wanted to have a grandson and accept the advice of a sexworker. She went into the palace crying near the prince. Why? She said she was afraid. The pure prince asked the soldiers to move her into a room. She cried, afraid. She was moved to a study. She cried , afraid. She was moved to his room. She cried, afraid. She was moved to his bed. She stopped crying, and took off her clothes. The pure prince never had had idea for sex before, but seeing the boobs he touched them several times and finally the thing was done. The king satisfied and the son more so. He asked his father that since he was the king of earth, he should make a rule that any girls who want to marry should sleep with him first. The virgin right. The pure and grand greed arose after the taste of sex from a pure young man. Another woman who used to wear nothing started to wear clothes when she wants to see the prince. All the men started laugh saying how funny : a naked practitioner starts to wear clothes. The woman said don’t laugh. You are all not real man. The only real man is the prince (who slept with all the women first. ) all the men was very angry but that’s the pain in all their hearts. They marched to the king asking to kill the prince and the king knew this is inevitable as the wrath is raw and strong. People threw stones and killed the prince. Before his death , he swore that he will revenge in the future but he will also be saved by an arhant. In this life, the prince was Angulimala; the sexworker the wife of master; the king the master; the ones who killed the prince the 99 mala killed; the Arahant the Buddha.

what a pity telling incomplete and even wrong story and ideas

@F3z07

2 жыл бұрын

As long as human people tell stories, their stories will be wrong and incomplete. Maturity and intelligence are marked by our patient attention, and our ability to read-between-the-lines. This channel discusses 2500 year old mythologies, songs, but even today's journalists must tell "incomplete stories". Context and clarity, but context first, are everything, friend.

@atontieren3897

2 жыл бұрын

@@F3z07 The original story was that Mala was a young beautiful young man, with high respect to teachers and The possible way to liberation. He since was very young has served his master in his home. The master’s wife want to have sex with Mala. Mala being a very decent young man, a young man with high moral ground and pure heart, refused to do so. The wife was so angry that she told the master that Mala tried to rape her. The master, with great anger but a little concern over killing him directly, chose to mislead him, telling Mala that you have always wanted to find ways to liberate, and here you will get them: kill 1000 people and you will be freed from samsara. Mala was very shocked but he felt obliged to obey the master and started killing. The Buddha appreciated the beautiful nature of Mala and that’s why he wanted to help. There are many places he was misleading the listener.

@atontieren3897

2 жыл бұрын

@@F3z07 100

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

This story you're telling is part of the legends surrounding this sutta, and was not part of the original story, which is why I did not discuss it. For the original story see Majjhima Nikāya 86, which I've linked to in the show notes.

@MundaSquire

2 жыл бұрын

Doug knows what he is talking about. You seem only familiar with a latter more embellished story. Hold judgement and be respectful to a wonderful and knowledgeable teacher who exudes nothing but kindness.