I have been a movie buff for over 60 years, and I first saw "Heaven's Gate" when the edited-down, 149-minute version was released to theaters in the spring of 1981. What I most remember is how the unvarying sepia tone of the cinematography, along with all the dust, made it look so dull and drab. This visual style was deliberate, and was supposed to match the overall melancholy of the story it was telling, but it made the film seem that much longer and depressing. So it may be worth mentioning that the restored 2012 version was not so much 'cleaned up and brightened', but more accurately digitally "colorized" -- with the brighter colors actually replacing the original's somber yellows and browns. I agree that it looks (and feels) much better this way; and I would only add that using this new version to claim it is an overlooked and underappreciated masterpiece does a disservice to those audience members and critics who were exposed to a completely different look when it was first shown. That said, I much enjoyed the videos from New Perspective.

@desertdreammedia

2 жыл бұрын

What Criterion did really made the movie far more watchable, even in its bloated form (the problem is too many scenes go on too long). It looks so beautiful now compared to before. And that is why we champion Film Restoration with the 3rd party labels.

@New_Perspective

Жыл бұрын

I agree, that the sepia tone does imbue a heavy feeling of melancholy, but it is almost oppressively so. It is just not pleasant to look at, even if that was the initial intent of the art's intended expression. However, with the restored version, with the colourisation being overseen by Cimino himself, I feel as though that somber tone is achieved more accurately through the use of dust, in scenes like when Champion confronts Averill in the bar, and with the absence of saturation, devastatingly depicted at the end of the battle. When the once green field is turned to a muted and muddy yellow mess, with bodes strewn all about, it really nails the effect of what it was going for in spades. This is all, of course, my opinion, and I believe every opinion to be valid.

@lamentate07

Жыл бұрын

Nah. Critics are invariably conversative and middlebrow, especially in the US. They got it wrong, just as they have got many other films wrong over the years.

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

Prettier or not, the film is still overwhelmingly awful for any number of reasons. I couldn’t wait for it to end.

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

@@lamentate07 Most film critics are not conservative. That’s simply false. To use the moniker in reference to them marks you as either disingenuous or an ignoramus.

Vincent Canby was definitely a bitter film critic, but you have to admit that his line about comparing Heaven’s Gate to a “forced four-hour walking tour of one’s own living room” is a funny as hell line. But there are films more deserving of that line than Heaven’s Gate. Especially considering the film has some AMAZING sequences.

@danielhenderson8316

2 жыл бұрын

I want to see the person's living room that looks like Heaven's Gate.

@puckerings

2 жыл бұрын

"is a funny as hell line." This demonstrates the point. He was more concerned with writing something pithy than actually addressing the film itself.

@PhilAndersonOutside

2 жыл бұрын

I'm sure anyone with half a brain, and honesty, could create a massive list of films that were both expensive, overblown, and far, far, far worse than Heaven's Gate, whether they were box office flops, or hits. Just as an example. The Phantom Menace (Star Wars, Chapter 1) made 1.1 billion dollars at the box office. I'd rather be locked in a room for a year with nothing else to watch but Heaven's Gate, than to sit through Phantom Menace again.

@curly_wyn

2 жыл бұрын

@@PhilAndersonOutside Meesa want to show yousa a great movie, okeyday!

@flmlvr

2 жыл бұрын

The only other line that was funnier than the "walking tour" line was "It's like 'Gone With The Wind' - without the wind." That one cracks me up.

Heaven's Gate is not a great film but has great artistry in it. I don't think that the critics didn't understand it but were put off by its length, it's murky looking original print and the under-developed characters. It is a film any film lover should definitely see, however.

@littlekingtrashmouth9219

Жыл бұрын

Agree. However, it comes down to the writing-the characters, the story. Everybody’s mumbling like some mumblecore drama. Things that should be in the movie aren’t in there (Jim and Nate are friends? How so?) and there are things that look great (roller skating sequence), but how do they help tell the story? Also, we didn’t get to know any of the immigrants. Are some of them actually thieves and anarchists? Are there good immigrants and bad immigrants? Complexity of character and an ensemble cast can certainly be conveyed over 3 and a half hours, and might make for a richer story. It looks pretty, but so can an art installation.

@jclcrow2621

Жыл бұрын

The critics were out to get Cimino from the start of production on HG. I know, I was there. The attitude was Cimino shouldn’t have beat out the obviously anti-war COMING HOME, with the muddled politics of DEER HUNTER. The LA Times sent a ringer to spy on HG Prod problems and violations from the first shot. And it went like that until it was finished. The film is not quite a masterpiece but I love it dearly, and I told Cimino that when I ran into him shortly before he passed.

@nicholasjanke3476

Жыл бұрын

@@littlekingtrashmouth9219 I think Cimino was going for a "let's not spoon feed the audience approach" but even at that the film needs some story explanations such as how did Jim and Ella meet and begin their romance? Or why is Billy working for Canton? Or who exactly is the lady in the photo? Also Cimino wants us to be sympathetic with the immigrants but how can we do that when the only immigrant character we get to know is Ella? The rest of them all through the film behave like drunken hoons and we're never given any info on them. The big problem with the film is that Cimino takes it for granted that everybody knows all about the Johnson County War. The film definitely could have used a narrative of some kind explaining the Johnson County conflict.

@ginormousaurus8394

Жыл бұрын

@@nicholasjanke3476 Billy didn't work for Canton. They were both wealthy members of the Wyoming Stock Growers Association. Billy didn't agree with Canton's plan to kill 125 people, but he didn't want to jeopardize his position in society by going against the Association. When Jim asked, "What'll you do, Billy?", Billy responded, "I'm a victim of our class, James." Billy accompanied the Association's invasion of Johnson County, but he didn't participate in the fighting. He ended up being killed in the crossfire anyway. The lady in the photo is the woman Jim danced with during the Harvard graduation celebrations. She's also the woman on the boat at the end of the movie. It's left ambiguous in the movie, but my interpretation is that Jim kept the photo of him and the woman as a reminder of his youth, and he was reluctant to ask Ella to marry him because he was still attached to the woman in the photo. After Ella is killed, Jim gives up on being a lawman and he goes back east to resume a life of wealth and privilege. He's reunited with the woman from the photo, but the beautiful woman he used to idealize is spoiled and idle. The movie ends with Jim looking miserable. His youth, his ideals, and the people he cared about are gone and all his money and possessions can't replace them.

@nicholasjanke3476

Жыл бұрын

Yes I knew the lady in the photo was Jim's girlfriend from Harvard (they attended all that time in the same building, but they never met till the last day?) but it's not made clear as to whether she's now his wife (was the photo of them together a wedding photo?). I always figured that she was then Jim's wife whom he left back east for a time to serve in Johnson County (which is why he seemingly was unable to fully commit to Ella. He probably didn't exactly see himself as cheating, as during the 19th rich guys in America tended to view a marriage differently than today). In historical fact, Jim Averill was married with a son but he lost both of them to illness. Then he moved to Johnson County and opened a roadhouse diner, where he employed then subsequently romanced Ella Watson. He wasn't a marshall but he did really try to protect the immigrants from the rich cattlemen, he really did protest against their actions. And there was a close resemblance between him and Kris Kristofferson (I knew the Kristoffersons casually and I've met Kris Kristofferson in person. I once even suggested to one of the Kristofferson family members that Kris was the Reincarnation of Jim Averill! (the real Jim Averill-though not a marshall-had been in the military).

Cimino was such a talent. I only wish he had continued his style of film making on a grand scale. The Deer Hunter and Heaven's Gate- even the scenes that go on and on are in a way beautiful because the performances feel so real.

@RhodesidesReviews

Жыл бұрын

Such grandeur but the topics of both probably only a paragraph or page in a history book Think about how many hundreds of small friendship groups went through what the boys in deer hunter went through or how many conflicts like that happened in the west

@AW-kr9fl

Жыл бұрын

Year of the Dragon was also a fantastic movie

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

I don’t feel like any of the performances feel real. It’s strange that a film that was shooting for such a high degree of verisimilitude never really feels like anything but forced. Sam Waterston’s character is one of the most cartoonish bad guys I’ve ever seen in a movie. I mean Camino gives him absolutely no degree of complexity. It’s like you’re watching Dick dastardly from some Hanna-Barbera cartoon. It’s such a one note character and performance. As if people are that one-sided. I think it’s amazing that filmmakers could get away with making the good guys out to be these men of depth and feeling, while the bad guy is just this intractably psychotic, murderous goon who seems to have no ability to feel a shred of human remorse. Of all the bad things in this movie I think his character is the one that really makes it impossible to enjoy or take seriously.

Technically at Cannes they were rewarding failure.

I think what the critic meant by "unqualified disaster" was that it was a disaster without qualifiers, or rather a "total disaster." Not that it was disqualified from anything (at 11:58). Great video, though. Loved part one enough to come back for more!

*Disclaimer* I hold no bitter resentment to film critics or to anyone who happens to not enjoy the films I do. I only reacted harshly towards Canby and Ebert in this video since that is the same treatment they gave Heaven's Gate. Everyone's opinion is, of course, valid. These just happen to be mine :^) Thank you all for watching. I've been working on this almost every day since Part 1. With this video I'm trying something a little different from part 1. This video is more of an opinion piece rather than an objective retelling of facts. I hope its entertaining and you all like it, and can understand why I make the claims i do in the video. But like I said, these are my opinions on Heaven's Gate so take that as you will. I'm starting work on Part 3 already, and have also started production on a short film of my own. I have no clue when either will be done but we'll just say sometime in 2021 lol. Thank you all again for watching, and make sure to subscribe!!

@joanne775

3 жыл бұрын

I'm giving you two thumbs up for your two videos about Heaven's Gate. Really well done. I think people should use critics' opinions to compare them against their own, instead of just blindly believing that the critic's opinion is the 'correct' one.

@curly_wyn

2 жыл бұрын

You have a good outlook, NP, you’re amazing!

@jasonhuttermusic424

Жыл бұрын

Very well done, well narrated, and interesting documentary. I believe that critics in the late 70s were a bit spoiled. They had a decade of great films and could not foresee how bad the movie industry would get. Heaven's Gate is not the Deer Hunter but it is not nearly as bad as the critics rated it at the time.

“While watching HEAVEN’S GATE, it was easy to see what to cut. But then I thought about what to keep, and my mind went blank.” - Pauline Kael, The New Yorker. “An epic vision isn’t worth much if you can’t tell a story.” - Village Voice.

@ahorserunning

2 жыл бұрын

I take offense to that last quote in particular. Some of my favorite movies have no spoken narrative whatsoever like Samsara, or were created with visual sequences in mind first, and then forced a story to work around them second like some of Nicolas Refn's films. These still play to the strengths of the visual medium. I would rather watch an epic vision, than watch a person sitting in a chair reading an epic story.

@connshawnery6489

2 жыл бұрын

Kael’s comment is an utterance from someone who’s point of view is shaped by films that had become the archetypal language and bonded to the popular culture. Cimino wasn’t not only an auteur but a singular voice...an original. In fact, being misunderstood is often a sign that something truly honest and extraordinary is being expressed. Welles easily fits into that category since he suffered the same type of dejection and boycott from the industry after the debacle of the now celebrated ‘Citizen Kane’.

@curly_wyn

2 жыл бұрын

Pauline Karl was a horrible film critic. What a (and I don’t want to sound misogynistic) bitch!

@bobbyjosson4663

2 жыл бұрын

@@connshawnery6489 Kane wasn't a debacle, it was Ambersons that finished him, alas. Also, after the success of The Deer Hunter, his hubris and arrogance whilst making this film made Strohiem seem reasonable, One of the reasons the '80s was poor was that there was no UA to back creative independents. One would also have to take in the fact that such a beautiful film was covered by such an ugly sepia.

@connshawnery6489

2 жыл бұрын

@@bobbyjosson4663 Kane almost suffered a blocked release and backlash from William Randolph Hearst after details about the subject matter became known. By the time he made Ambersons, the studio did not afford him the same freedom and autonomy. The studio also recut the film without Welles involvement. Heavens Gate, although beautiful to look at and a massive effort, was fraught with problems. The fact that he didn’t do ADR ever and if dialogue became inaudible, he just left it this way. The movie got away from him and suffered as a result.

There's one factor that doesn't get mentioned much when it came to Heaven's Gate flopping at first. This film, in its uncut version, premiered just two weeks after Reagan was elected. Nobody was in the mood for anything dark about America's sins anymore. Had Heaven's Gate somehow made it to the original 1979 Christmas release it was aiming for, perhaps it would have been better received then. The climate in 2012, with people more willing to confront our checkered past, was far more suitable for the movie. And certainly now.

@ryerye9019

2 жыл бұрын

I couldn't agree more. The theme of the film was political and the reaction to the film was an unqualified political hack job. The movie has found a more sympathetic audience in our time.

@pinksealproductions4360

2 жыл бұрын

Spot on! The country was not in the mood for an anti-Western, and Canby was making a living off of panning films. That was an impossible combination. I'm not sure I'd agree with calling the film a "Masterpiece," and it's true that Heaven's Gate contributed to the swing towards money-makers, but that's a problem that comes up in all art forms and the survival of the artists that make them. The restored version is gorgeous to look at (minus that awful sepia filter), but it doesn't rank with other masterpieces that were made around the same time (Shining, for example), at least in my book.

@desertdreammedia

2 жыл бұрын

@@pinksealproductions4360 In it's final form, I would not say it's a masterpiece either. But it seems to get better each time I watch it. I do need to revisit the 1981 shorter version.

@nicholasjanke3476

2 жыл бұрын

yes I think thats a good point! Heaven's Gate and Legend of the Lone Ranger-two really good westerns-both came out at the wrong time. 1. First of of all westerns weren't as popular as they had been decades earlier. 2. Nobody wanted to see westerns that showed dark sides of american history-antiwesterns. Both films suffered from just not being the kind of westerns that western fans wanted top see.

@robmckrobmck5567

Жыл бұрын

Point taken

Great videos! I'm really enjoying your take on this. One quibble, though: when someone refers to something as an "unqualified disaster" they actually mean "a disaster without any qualifying (i.e., mitigating) factors." In other words, Vincent Canby didn't think that any aspect of the film could be considered as positive. (Similarly, if someone refers to something as an "unqualified success," it means the subject was a complete success with no elements which can be gainsaid.) Not defending what Canby wrote, just clearing up the language discrepancy.

@opalescentparrot

2 жыл бұрын

I was going to say the same thing.

@desertdreammedia

2 жыл бұрын

If we want to talk about "unqualified disaster", we could name a million better examples (PLEASE don't start naming any below).

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

Canby’s review was correct. This is still a terrible movie no matter how many KZread film dorks try to flip it around to make it out to be some kind of underappreciated magnum opus.

Great 2nd part! I’m thinking about reviewing the soundtracks for The Deer Hunter and Heaven’s Gate. Keep up the great work.

Your Chanel is great and both videos are awesome! It’s not even KZread video, it’s a full length documentary!

A movie so good they made a religion about it

It’s not misunderstood. It’s just not a good movie. Sure, some critics jumped at the chance to tear down a movie that went a year over schedule and 400% over budget, but that doesn’t vindicate it. It’s incredibly self-indulgent and meandering for the story it’s trying to tell, half the shots seem to run on at least 10 seconds too long, the 20-minute graduation scene could have been trimmed to 5 minutes without losing anything meaningful, Isabelle Huppert seemed wildly miscast and incapable of emoting, and the climactic battle scene was an incomprehensible mess.

I subscribed on the strength of the first part of this video essay, and am quite happy to see part 2 up!! Looking forward to part 3 and other film essays.

@lynniealexander7194

Жыл бұрын

How do you find these essays please?

The Heaven's Gate score is just... some of the only music I've ever heard that truly takes me out of time and space

Michael Cimino's "Heaven's Gate" has finally restored with new cuts, new colors and new printing to give the film and the praise it truly deserves. Thanks to today's filmmakers like Emmy/Academy Award winners Kathryn Bigelow, Edward Zwick and Peter Weir. In those days, "Heaven's Gate" has now becoming an amazing film of all time, like many unrated cuts on such films as "Revenge," "True Romance" and "The Best Little in Texas" beginning in 2007 for both Sony/Lakeshore/RKO and Universal/EMI. "Heaven's Gate" was Oscar nominated for best art direction in 1982. Great cast, excellent writing/directing, gorgeous contributions all around!!!

@markelijio6012

Жыл бұрын

@Miguel Oniga Thanks!

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

It certainly looks better than the original release. I concede that 110%. However, beautiful to look at or not, it’s still an absolute disaster from a story and character perspective. The Harvard swing dancing scene has got to be one of the most annoying and pretentious things ever captured on 35 mm.

The people living in the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s were so spoiled by the huge number of quality films available to them, that they could afford to nitpick at details that were often minor flaws in what were otherwise very well crafted stories. I say this with the sobering clarity of living through the 2020’s, where the creatively bankrupt Woke inquisition has turned a once vibrant storytelling medium of film into a veritable desert, where only the occasional oasis can be enjoyed and savored.

@dthomscappello

Ай бұрын

blaming diversity instead of the actual private equity capital that turned the industry risk-averse is missing the forest for the two-inch tall plants.

@frankbarron1907

Ай бұрын

Oh please, I can’t believe you’re serious. I’m Mexican, bro. I hate the secular woke religion. That’s exactly what it is. It’s Maoism with American characteristics. Do you have a point? Sure, there was a measurable decline in quality storytelling because of risk aversion by the investors. But if you believe that the intrusion of woke Marxists into all levels of Hollywood didn’t speed the bankruptcy of creativity, I’ve got an iceberg to sell you, buddy.

Good job on re-evaluation of Heaven's Gate! Very misunderstood movie! Could you do a re-evaluation of another misunderstood movie, like Steven Spielberg's underrated 1979 film, 1941?

Am enjoying this reevaluation of "Heaven's Gate". I want to make that clear. I am 61 years old as of this writing, which means I was the ripe old age of 20 when this film was, uh, released - at least in New York anyways. And 41 years later I can still remember vividly all the controversy surrounding this movie. I was one of the 12 or so people who saw the cut version on opening day - and to my dismay found it to be just as awful as the critics said it was. It was 2 hours and 20 minutes - and it's THAT version that felt like 5 hours. It would be a few years later on cable that I would see the original version - and only liked it slightly better, but not much. Through the 41 years I would see the uncut version - get ready for this - eight times. The last time was in 2007 when the Aero Theater in Santa Monica, California, showed a restored 35mm print of the original version - and it would be the first time I would see that version projected on a big screen with the Dolby sound, the way it was intended to be seen. I don't know which blogger said it as it's been a long time since I read what he had to say, but he said it perfectly for me. I can't remember at what point in the movie, but there was this feeling you get that somewhere in all that footage was a good movie lurking in there. On the big screen some of those shots were absolutely breathtaking. But did it change my opinion? Nope. I STILL think this is one long boring pretentious movie. From the first shot, it seems like Cimino is off camera shouting "THIS IS A MASTERPIECE DAMMIT!!!!" The actors all say their lines as though they are about to say the most important dialogue in the history of the world. And how else is this movie a misfire? My late friend - who died in 2012 (he was older than me by the way), watched it at my house in 1985 or so. It's the scene where we are in Casper, Wyoming - you know, it starts out with the train, and it moves over to show the crowded sidewalks with a ton of pedestrians, and heavily congested roads stuffed with horses and buggies and such. My friend started laughing. I said "What did I miss?" He said, "You got to be kidding. There aren't even that many people in Casper, Wyoming NOW." Okay, obviously I do not agree with your opinion of this movie. But am I glad you made this video? You're damn right. I'm actually glad this movie has it's admirers and there are defenders of this film. I'm also very glad that Michael Cimino was still with us when the restored version played at Cannes and he got that 12 minute standing ovation. I am comforted that he knew this movie which caused him so much hurt did in fact have a ton of admirers too. And here it is 41 years later - and here we are discussing it. Tells you something.

@lynniealexander7194

Жыл бұрын

I would much appreciate a simple summary of the life of cimino after all this... .went mad bankrupt had sex change drug addict lost family friends .gained new friends was an ok person was narcissistic celeb who couldn't take failure ..took on too big a job and lost the plot ?

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

I hated this movie. I don’t think any really objective person likes this movie. This is pure film, geek reimagining for the sake of edginess. Heaven’s Gate was, and will forever be a complete disaster. It’s almost a master class on how not to develop sympathy, or any sense of involvement in a given character. The scene where they stand around arguing, whether or not to fight against the hired assassins is one of the most overacted and annoying segments in the history of big budget movie making. It feels so fake and so jumped up and there’s only one man you can really blame for that climate. Obviously I’m referring to Michael Cimino.

@nataliep.9047

6 ай бұрын

My girlfriend and I went to see this movie when it was first released. It was dreadful, but I told her to wait about twenty years and the self-styled intellectual liberal churls would start claiming that it was an unappreciated masterpiece. I was right.

@flmlvr

6 ай бұрын

@@MaximusWolfe Oh my. I just saw this comment. Sorry for the delay here. But are you referring to the - for lack of better way of labeling the scene - the "list reading" sequence? THAT is the segment of the movie that leaves me wanting to pull what's left of my hair out. You honestly think for that couple of seconds that Kristofferson is going to read all 125 names. Ugh.

@flmlvr

6 ай бұрын

@@nataliep.9047 And guess what? There were those arguing that very same argument when the movie came out - of course I wasn't one of them. But it was enough to lead me to believe that Cimino was wrong to pull the movie. He should have just let it play and let everybody argue about it. Maybe his career would not have been ruined if he had done that, but oh well. By all accounts, Cimino was his own worst enemy.

I can't hate the film. First time I saw it was 5 years ago this month, on an old 35mm film print, and I did my paper on its critical reappraisal (along with Showgirls), and I concluded that it was because of the internet; more access to interact with people who like the same thing make you feel less alone and more vocal. You can equate this with the rise of conspiracy theories into the mainstream as well but the point is I know that Heaven's Gate (and Showgirls) gained its critical reappraisal because more people knew other people liked it, not just reading what was in local newspapers

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

Showgirls is awful. Heaven’s Gate is only slightly better.

This is one of those examples of our modern thinking in which we have determined that if we simply declare 2 plus 2 equals 5 then, by golly, it is true. It reminds me of when I saw Eyes Wide Shut for the first time and found it to be magnificent even as I began to get this terrible headache and it got worse and worse until I realized that I was literally splitting my mind in two with the burden of having convinced myself Kubrick was a genius and therefore this work could only be amazing while being thoroughly convinced it was anything but..actually it was dreadful. And so is, sepia or nicely dusted off, Heaven’s Gate. And speaking of the sepia -what the hell? So Camino didn’t intend it to have that? Only Criterion could help him realize his true vision?? That’s ridiculous. It is a mess -and so was Deer Hunter in several ways actually. But what Deer Hunter had was also a good production team that held Cimino’s feet to the fire, great performers who hit the beats where they needed to be and, finally, a sharply outlined structure. Heaven’s Gate has nothing that is taut -it is all overdone, sloppily edited, over designed, over timed, and definitely overacted. It seems deliberately designed to challenge basic common sense-not unlike Lou Reed’s Metal Machine Music..and maybe Lulu too ..and maybe Lou Reed himself..? Anyhow, nice Try and very entertaining but a turd is a turd no matter who laid it.

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

I couldn’t agree more. It’s an awful movie, and it just becomes so nauseating trying to see everything that was evil or poorly wrought from decades past suddenly get this new image and sheen because these empty vessel post modernists and film dorks think they’re saying something interesting or profound by trying to exonerate garbage.

@overanalyzed

10 ай бұрын

Didn't see the film, and the snippets I see here make me feel it is as you described but I cannot judge what I have not seen. However, spot on with Lou Reed.: P

@dthomscappello

Ай бұрын

Absolute nonsense. It's a long film and it messes its pace up at points but the film's story is incredible, very relevant to the American experience, and has a gut-wrenching ending. Maybe you just got your own internal biases you gotta sus out. Best of luck!

I've waited a long time for this video. Thanks for all the hard work I bet it will be worth the watch like part 1 was.

Some of the best discussion of any film I’ve seen on KZread. Fascinating stuff.

The thing is the sepia tone really does ruin it. You are unfairly comparing what the critics saw to the new release. Just look at 'Once Upon A Time in America' and how studio cuts can ruin masterpieces. Roger Ebert put the Studio cut on his list of Worst Movies of the year, and the Directors Cut was on his Best Movies of the year. The studio heads pretty much killed Sergio Leone by ruining his movie, and it looks like they killed Cimino he is just still walking around not knowing it...

@androlibre9661

Жыл бұрын

I was just thinking the same thing. I cant IMAGINE watching the movie through a sepia filter.

It makes me so happy to see this film getting the recognition I always felt it deserved. First saw it in the early 2000’s and was obsessed with Bach’s book. The criterion restoration is exactly what this film needed to be discovered by later generations. I can’t recommend the criterion version enough. It’s absolutely wonderful.

It wouldn't surprise me if competing studios paid off critics to tank the film and bring down a rival since they probably knew the fate of the studio was dependent on the film's success.

@missingabalustrade9178

Жыл бұрын

That's a great point.

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

No, the movie genuinely sucks. I guess garbage always gets a second life when pondered by wishful film nerds. But everything that the critic said about it back then still rings true. It’s indulgent, vapid and does a terrible job of fleshing out the motivations of every character. The amount of ambiguity is incredible. I watched it with a completely open mind and hated almost the entire thing. There are a few interesting scenes that perhaps could have been developed into a good movie, but they are scattered and all too few.

@missingabalustrade9178

Жыл бұрын

@@MaximusWolfe Oh, I'm sorry - I didn't realize you were the god of movie criticism...fuckin' troll...

@paulguseman6004

Жыл бұрын

@@MaximusWolfe Were you able to see the full 3 hour + cut? I've been kind of holding off until I can find it.

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

@@paulguseman6004 Fair enough. However, it’s hard for me to imagine that simply having more scenes is going to make this movie redeemable. There’s kind of a strange acceptance of the idea that if we could just find the longer version of something we would find the true masterpiece hidden beneath the layers of mishap. I mean what, for example, could ever begin to redeem that opening scene at Harvard? Everything about it screams that more editing was required not less…and I mean a lot more. Maybe some of the character motivations could be revealed by restored footage, so if you see the longer film be sure to reply back to me here, so that I can become privy to any character enhancement contained therein. I would love to be wrong about this film, but something tells me I’m not.

You're really good at making these videos. I subscribed. Look forward to seeing more of your work. I agree the movie seems pretty good but I was watching the colorized version. I'm a sucker for old westerns.

LOVE your Video. LOVED Heavens Gate when I saw it in the Theatre. Saw S and E review it on T.V. Thought they were a -holes for dumping on it. Thanks for straightening the record. The year you spent on this project is VERY much appreciated .Thank-you W.

I literally watched part 1 like 2 days ago, glad I didn't have to wait long like other people for this video. I find this film and this story fascinating, so many different angles to explore about the whole thing. It shows how a career can be ruined and talent can be lost through just one bad experience. The worst part is that the film wasn't even bad in my opinion, but it didn't matter, the reception, largely influenced by critics at the time and misunderstandings in the filmmaking (the original sepia look wasn't even what cimino wanted, that was the dp's fault from what I know), was enough to bring it and it's filmmaker down. this tale also serves to show how the industry works in a lot of ways, studios that wanted to regain control used the sensationalism and hive mentality propeled by the media to regain power, was this film really responsible for the death the "author era"? Or would the studios eventually find a way of regaining control? They just wanted an excuse, and this film did it for them, an excuse good enough that everyone could get behind. Ultimately this story shows how everyone is on strings, the audience, the critics, the filmmakers. the industry and it's producers in the end won, as they usually do

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

It was bad and deserved to be excoriated given how many great movies could have been made with only a small portion of its massive budget. The characters are wafer thin and impossible to understand. The scenes with excessive extras fail to be narratively propulsive despite that being the obvious intent. The acting is almost invariably histrionic or overly subdued and the dialogue is uniformly horrendous . Certain characters seem to have no purpose whatsoever (John Hurts brilliance has never been more poorly harnessed). It has one of the most uninteresting love triangles in cinematic history because it never feels like Walken or Kristofferson have any real devotion or connection to this decidedly uninteresting harlot. Every scene filmed to convey a sense of genuine affection between these characters fails. The more they kiss and expose themselves to each other the more their lack of chemistry is manifest. The films sanguinary and grisly use of violence feels contrived and extremely superfluous in the most part. The carnage of the final 2 battle scenes are particularly tedious and wanting for any real poignancy. Some of the scenery is breathtaking and the production designers seemed to be talented but none of that sweeping landscape and camera wizardry gets filled in with anything like organic, tangible characters or intimate interchanges. There is no concretization of any of these characters hopes and aspirations. At most you get the occasional socialistic bromide. Everything seems to clumsily fall forward towards an ending that feels inexorably grueling (which itself eliminates any sense of excitement or dramatic thrust). It’s a truly awful film that cannot be reconciled with the laurels this yt content provider seems determined to present Camino for the sake of kitsch points.

It's misunderstood for sure. Most bad press regarding this film aren't about the actual movie on the screen, but all the on-set, behind the scenes drama and money spent. Contemporary reappraisal shows the film as a beautiful work of art. It's a gritty, accurate portrayal of the REAL Old West. It was released at the wrong time when epic Westerns were out of fashion and big-budget popcorn movies were the "in" thing. If you watch the film you will see some of the best cinematography, haunting music, authentic costumes and honest performances.

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

No, it’s a very poorly conceived and indulgent fiasco that you really have to try very hard to enjoy.

Thanks for a couple of really excellent videos. I do have one small quibble though. Most of the clips you show from the movie seem to be from the recent "restoration" that strips the original sepia-tone that befogged the entire enterprise and contributed to people's difficulties in watching the film. In a significant way, the film that is available today is not the one originally released.

This two part video series on the making & reception of Heaven's Gate was very interesting & a great watch. I hope you continue to make more videos like this!

Nothing like a random review on youtube forcing me to watch my next favourite film. Please keep making content good sir.

When this film opened (briefly) in London, I didn't go to it knowing it had been truncated and was confident there would be an opportunity to see the full length version. Because the full length version was more kindly received in Europe, that opportunity eventually arose. What I saw was a flawed, rather murky film with dialogue sometimes drowned by poor sound balance, but a film that had me fascinated, and far from being the worst film ever made (I think, for example that "Ryan's Daughter" was worse). Now it's been cleaned up, the dialogue is far more comprehensible, far more of the money is on the screen, and it's looking more and more like one of the great founding stories of America, with it's violence, hypocrisy and yes, its solidarity too. Maybe that's what cost it at the beginning : the US was in no mood to see some of the harsh realities that had been perpetrated on home soil.

@ginormousaurus8394

Жыл бұрын

I think if Heaven's Gate was released a few years earlier, around the time of the Vietnam War and the Watergate scandal, it would have fit in with other downbeat, disillusioning films of the 1970s. Instead it was released soon after the U.S. shifted to the right politically and Ronald Reagan was elected president. It was a bad time to release a movie that was critical of capitalism and inequality in America. I think part of the reason Heaven's Gate is better received now is because of frustrations with capitalism and inequality following the Great Recession.

This is impressive stuff! Can't wait to see this channel blow the hell up

I watched part 1 and was impressed by your essay, which led me to part 2. Thank you for letting me know I can definitely ignore your channel.

I'll admit I haven't watched Heaven's Gate in full. It's just a fascinating film to read about. It's sad Hollywood drew the wrong conclusions from It's box office failure.

From the time I saw Heaven's Gate movie, watching tv in Madrid 1985, I felt obsessed with the film. Over time I learned to play David Mansfield soundtrack with my guitar, mainly the "end credits" theme which I play very often. Thanks Michael. Thanks David.

You deserve more views and subscribers. I have enjoyed this content and look forward to viewing this film for the first time this coming Friday. Please continue to produce this quality work!

It didn't deserve getting critically panned as it did. Its main problems are lacking a solid story and character development. The production values, cinematography, and location filming are fantastic. It also has numerous powerful action scenes. But without a good story all those points mean little.

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. There’s no bite to the story so it ends up being an overly simplified social commentary with cartoonishly mean bad guys and a really unconvincing and a morally illiterate and uncompelling love triangle. The acting by all the supporting players is either hammy or forceless. It’s just commie pandering trying unsuccessfully to convey realism and engender sympathy. I guess that’s the real fatal flaw in Heaven’s Gate. I just don’t feel any real sense of tragedy for the plight of these people, because for all his efforts, Camino never really gives them any texture.

Holy shiet, amazing video! Hope you'll get many more subscribers and I'm really looking forward to the third one!

Cimino was a true artist…he just had to confront stupid audience, producers, and nincompoop critics. Besides, the big studios, the art mafias, left no effort to debase the film. Thanks a zillion for making this video. We need more.

Patiently waiting part 3. I need to know what happened to the set pieces for this film!

I never saw the movie, so I can't be sure, but it feels like discussing the movie is probably more entertaining than the movie itself. I am glad people have strong feelings about art and well-reasoned critiques, even if I might disagree with conclusions. I really appreciate the effort our narrator made. 10/10. good work my friend.

There have been many films panned by critics that have done well and many films that critics love with failed. Ultimately what decides if a movie of good or not is the audience, if they discover it in theater or after. A production company went out of business because of this film, and it's nobodies cult classic. It's a bad film.

Pause at 7:19... The first time I watched Heavan's Gate, I too, was blown away, but with a difference. I grew up in an area where, with the super antenna on the roof, we got 3 channels. Not even PBS (which I blame for my odd social skills). When FOX debuted I worshipped at the alter of Tracey Ullman. Our first video rental didn't stock VHS but RCA discs in at the back of a gas station. However, cable finally arrived at my aunt's house and, I remember so vivdly, being glued to the TV-in-a-box watching The Deer Hunter. Fast forward another 15 years or so, and I caught a profile piece on Kris Kristofferson and his background and thought that we could be watching him rather than Clinton from the White House... and heard about Heavan's Gate. Loved Convoy, so... Somehow I managed to find a VHS of the original release, sepia and rollerskates and all, and sat in front of my slightly larger TV-in-a-box spellbound rather than tuning to the ever increasing "-gates". I haven't seen the Criterion release yet. Why am I rambling? The film was breathtakingly beautiful and so well scripted and acted that I never noticed noticed the pacing or wanted to take a break or was bored. (All in...I watched the 4-plus hour Gettysburgh in the theatre and couldn't believe it was over, either. And I have two unmarketable degrees and no one to ramble on at.) The highest praise that I can give on cinematography is wow, that's as good as Heaven's Gate. It was a master work then. I'm looking forward to watching the Criterion edition and comparing the two. Time to start the video again!

Michael Cimino is one of the best directors of our time and he didn't deserve to be treated like that.Every man has good and bad sides, but a way had to be found for Michael to continue making films.He was a special filmmaker.The studios interfere in the filming of the films, they require cutting the film, and if The Deer Hunter had lasted 24 hours, it would have been filmed for 24 hours. The long version of the film lasted like 5 minutes. These are perfect movies, I can watch them all day.

AMAZING NEW PERSPECTIVE!! happy i found you

Wonderful video I am now obsessed with your channel!

I am fan of Michael Cimino's work when he did screenplays for Silent Running and Magnum Force. I remembered this documentary Z Channel: A Magnificent Obsession talked about Michael Cimino on Heaven's Gate and the banter from some of these so-called Film Critics made about the film. Jerry Harvey from Z Channel approached Cimino to ask if he had a Director's Cut. That pushed the envelope of having Director's Cut of films that are usually get ignored or being obscured

the re release on Blu Ray has been a revelation , it is a film which in it's way is similar to the widescreen epic "The Big Trail" starring a young John Wayne in 1930.... it's scale, beauty and storytelling is something we will never see again and should cherish.

Thoroughly enjoyed this 2 part in depth look at a much maligned film. I haven't seen it but because of your work I will. Also adding the 2002 miniseries to my must-see list. Thanks from a new subscriber.

anybody know what's the ost used in the start of the vid

Thanks for taking the time out of your life to make these videos.

I first saw the film in around 2012. I was in college, hard at study in 1980, so I guess that is how I missed it. But I was fascinated by the film and its soundtrack. I bought copies of both. I watch "Heaven's Gate" periodically. One idea of why I think it wasn't liked in 1980, aside from the cipia error, is that it was somewhat anti-American, especially from the government conspiracy angle. Since the Vietnam War and its finale with Watergate and Nixon''s resignation, I think people had had enough of that sort of criticism and darkness for a while. Also, the public hadn't learned to watch long films yet. The film has flaws, but it makes it up in many other ways, enough to make me watch it about three times a year. I play the film score on my harmonicas and have found some real interesting musical departures that way.

Even Ebert called in his review for Peter Jackson's The Lovely Bones "Deplorable". Which I've seen at least five times.

We of the Internet have no business minding a long running time, if there are natural pauses here and there. We're now used to a "season" of a story with huge story arcs broken into "episodes" that are all written and shot simultaneously, and come to a conclusion at the last installment, often with little regard to another "season." We're free to sample one portion a week, or binge in one sitting.

Looking forward to more videos from you!! Really great work..

This was an amazing film. Such a strange cinematic experience though, and you're right to compare it to 2001 which was likewise a very unusual watching experience. The critics were guilty of group think. Thanks for making this video.

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

Yes, amazing. As in amazingly inept in almost every conceivable way.

Just watched the film for the first time and I enjoyed it quite a bit. I think it's better than The Deer Hunter, which was always a bit overrated in my estimation. It seems Heaven's Gate is one of those films that was destined to be rediscovered and embraced much later since the circumstances surrounding its production were so chaotic and scandalous. Newer generations of cinephiles who are detached from that era and get to enjoy the restored version will no doubt find a lot to appreciate. It's definitely not what I could call a disaster, at least not in its current form, and it stands apart from a lot of the other films released during the same period. It has all the grandeur of an epic romance from the Golden Age of Hollywood but is also a very violent, tragic and ruthlessly cynical film filled with enough brutal carnage to make Sam Peckinpah wince. It's a film that deserves to be watched and re-evaluated. The opening Harvard graduation scene is quite spectacular and the climactic battle is dizzyingly grim and brutal.

thank you for this video. knowing about this film has helped me understand a lot about the film industry itself. loved your comparison with the other film about the same war, you get right to the point.

Kind of a stretch, but I do see parallels with the video games industry. Diakatana as Heaven’s Gate with John Romero as Chamino.

Not saying it's a bad film at all. Saying it was made dishonesty. Don't promise to shoot this for 7 million and not have any intention to do that. There's 5 other filmakers that didn't get their movies green lit because of this lie.

Am subscribed because you've made quality videos that made me think 🤔. Somewhat disagree with heaven's gate as a masterpiece, my main problem with the movie is it's length. Outside of the movie as a work of art, I found it excessive, wasteful, and full of sheer hubris. I loved the deer hunter, but after getting so many accolades I think cimino began huffing farts and thought he could do no wrong. I don't like producers telling film directors how to make art but so much money was lost for this movie. It saddens me to say this but sometimes you have to tell an artist no.

12:55 - it's really funny that people keep thinking critics don't know anything. They're practically the same as the internet people coz they're just... people. Films-flops like The Thing weren't just blasted by critics, it was by audiences TOO. Same with Heaven's Gate - audiences too were influenced by the negativity back then

Very interesting. Thought-provoking. Watched this just a few days after watching the Final Cut doc. On another movie, I am a fan of Ishtar, saw it when it came out, and could never understand the bad rap-- total dismissal-- it got, similar to HG. One thing the two movies have in common: the press latched on to the amount of money well before each film was released, as if that was important. I'd love to see your commentary on Ishtar, if you think it's worth it.

Gonna stop right here and watch this before I finish your vid. I'm too curious. Just watched Deer Hunter for the 2nd time in 20 years, I think I ought see this entirely before more is spoiled. Seems friggin' awesome. Right up me alley.

Yes to everything here. I finally watched the film a week ago, and was hooked immediately: the first set piece, the Harvard graduation. Who knows what other masterpieces Michael Cimino may have gifted the world, if not for the bit of spiteful blood sport that the critics engaged in.

@TheRubberStudiosASMR

Жыл бұрын

He was an easy target having been so successful at the Oscar’s. I just wish they’d do that now to someone like Will Smith. Ruin that prick.

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

The Harvard scenes are incredibly annoying. They don’t do anything to tell us about the characters and serve almost no functional purpose with regard to the actual narrative of the film. I don’t even understand what Camino is trying to say with that entire opening, except that he had a shit ton of money and he was going to spend it on a cast of thousands. The fact that I was able to keep watching the movie after that opening prologue is a real Testament to my patience quite honestly. What a miserable slog. This may not be the worst movie of all time but it’s probably got the worst opening I’ve ever seen.

God this film was boring. I don’t CARE about any of the immigrants or the main characters because the film doesn’t help me connect to them. And the villains are so cartoonishly evil I don’t find it “realistic” at all.

@JamesASharp

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah. It takes a lot more than great cinematography for a movie to be a great film.

@eargasm1072

2 жыл бұрын

Those characters are really secondary in the story anyway...no one brings up the main characters and performances of Kristofferson, Huppert and Walken. I found their "love triangle" and characters compelling, especially Kristofferson's. Even with his privileged American background and education, he was a much happier man being sheriff of some poor, rough immigrant mountain town and being in love with a whore, then a miserable satisfied rich guy on a yacht with his trophy wife. There's the diatribe against "capitalism"

@ngrey651

2 жыл бұрын

@@eargasm1072 That's all well and good, but the problem with the movie is simple. "The things one loves about life are the things that fade". Well if they fade, then why should I care? You haven't given me a reason to care about them if they're so fleeting and meaningless. If there's no point, why bother?

Not since Buster Keaton's magnificent 'The General' has such a grand and authentic cinematic masterpiece been filmed.

Bro the use of Pink Floyd’s “Is There Anybody Out There?” guitar solo for the intro to this video made me stand up I was not expecting perfection like that

keep up the great content king

What’s mic he’s holding at the end?

@kipling1957

2 жыл бұрын

Rode NTG2 I’m fairly sure.

More people need to see your work. It's great. Thank you.

Hmm... The video was pretty good. You're really good at immersing the audience in the story of the film and I'm looking forward to the third part. But there is one detail that interests me. I think you took the criticism of the film too seriously. Ebert & Siskel is without a doubt an icon of their time. They did video reviews before the Internet even existed. Almost all the movie fans of that time watched them. And plus, they had a very strong influence on Nostalgia Critic. Do I agree with their opinion on «Heaven's Gate» (1980)? No. But it's still their business. Whether they liked the movie or not. I do not dispute that the critics have contributed to the bad reputation of the film, but still it is worth treating them with understanding and at least respect.

Visually... stunning! Especially after the correction of color tone. Can we credit Cimino for this? The story line was long developed, perhaps too long. My hearing ain't what it used to be but the Harvard graduation scene with Joseph Cotten has me leaning in to hear what they are saying. I confess I'm no Ivy Leaguer, ha! was that a tradition back then to get up a tree to retrieve something? Did every graduating class have a Kris Kriistofferson to handle the violence?

I have been to Montana. The filter was a mistake. It would be great to have it restored to HD quality and full color. That'd improve it massively. Also better editing. Somewhere there is a masterpiece waiting to be revealed.

The 80s critics was LEGENDARY shit. Great video btw. I even loled a couple times.

Thank you !!!! For verifying the contradiction felt, caused by those who want not to see the meaning when a film director takes an incident and lets it reflect the fluffy hypocritical flawed visions of a majority that can never see truth or beauty., in this case relayed in a motion picture that seized the moment.

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

Heavens gate sucks ass.

I watched this in the 80s, and the tv guy gave a brief history of its big budget and subsequent failure, while praising it and urging the viewer to watch. It was just the guy who announced the next program, not a host or film critic, so he must have been passionate about this---anyway, he really set the mood and I watched it; I was mostly impressed by how realistic the violence was, and by the end I FELT the journey, knew I'd just seen something great.

You should do a similar video for once upon a time in America.

Was excited for this one!

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I've watched this film several times over the years and it still stinks to high heaven for several reasons. The character development is non-existent. High off of his Oscar wins for Deer Hunter, Cimino was completely full of himself when he made it and expected the audience to care about characters that he, himself didn't give a lick about. Kris Kristofferson and Isabelle Huppert had acting talent on par with a Junior High School production. Even actors with talent and that I enjoy, such as Chris Walken, Willem Dafoe, Sam Waterston, Brad Dourif, Terry OQuin and John Hurt were given nothing to work with. The plot is threadbare to say the least. The script is terrible, with actors consistently trying to tell the audience how to feel, instead of showing why we should. Richard Masur was a notable offender and I cheered when the hired killers finally offed him. Holy crap he was irritating. Speaking of irritating, the immigrants are absolutely annoying on every level. And we're supposed to be rooting for them. Basically, Cimino pulled a Coppola and sacrificed everything for visual style - which makes the film very pretty to look at in some scenes, but impossible to sit through. So...masterpiece? Um, no. Only a masterpiece of miscalculations.

This is one of those cases where the behind the scenes story is more fascinating than the movie itself. People can go on and on about how good the movie looks and plead its case for all blood sweat and tears that went into it, Heaven's Gate is a bad film. It did not tell its narrative effectively and too far....far too long to get anywhere. Now I am someone who loves slow paced films if they are genuinely engaging but the pace in Heaven's Gate feel like an affectation. It does not benefit from the pacing and scope as the story its telling doesn't seem to complement it. Yes it has some great moments but who cares? The film is the opposite of engaging and I greatly dislike this movie because of it. The Deer Hunter had some of the same problems and no I don't think that movie was great either. All that aside these videos are good and you really put a great amount of effort into them. keep it up.

This reminds me of Zack Snyder's Justice League. A movie that would be torture to watch in theaters without any interruption, but surprisingly entertaining to watch at your own pace. I think it's a specific type of film format that probably needs a new name to differentiate it from a normal 2hr film. Because whether or not something is too long or slow or seems random can have merit when watched in parts. Doesn't mean it will be good, but it does mean the normal factors that dictate if a movie works changes depending on how you watch it.

I don’t see Heaven’s Gate as much as the cause of the change but an inevitable conclusion to the shifting cultural zeitgeist of Hollywood and America. It’s probably a fine movie but it came at the time when people were getting fed up with the bloated run times, self congratulatory long drawn out shots and depressing stories. At the time we were entering the 80s and people wanted some excitement and escapism. We can look at it from our current perspective and may seem ridiculous but from that times perspective it makes a lot of sense why people were fed up with it.

Thanks for your insightful commentary about Heaven’s Gate. When I was a child in the early eighties I heard about this movie. I think I may have seen some of it on video. But now I’ll try getting a copy of it from criterion because the footage used in your commentary is beautiful. I agree with comments about the wealthy class’s mistreatment of the poor.

@MaximusWolfe

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn’t blow money on that movie bro. It definitely looks better than the original release but that’s about the only thing that’s been improved. There’s no way to gussy up that almost unexampled train wreck of a movie. It’s really, really bad.

Just brilliant, and so interesting in including diverse but relevant aspects, from the California doomsday cult, to the Johnson County wars epic you praise, to the stunning excess of Cimino, this film and its political poignance for today. Especially today in the US backed settler wars over their unconscionable land theft in Israel.

Awesome perspective. Year of the Dragon. Excellent movie of his.

So was the original sepia tone of the film not part of the director's vision? Also, I don't think you mentioned the death, and injuries on the set? also: fantastic work!

I just order the Bluray because of this video, I look forward to seeing it :)

This was an enjoyable review. I would love to view this movie!

Wonderful video Where in Florida do you live? From South Florida and living in Tallahassee now

It's an absolute masterpiece. I saw it (both versions) some time in the 1980s, probably featured on UK Channel 4 TV. I instantly loved it. Brilliantly filmed. All the set pieces. The love triangle. Probably my favourite movie ever. And I liked King of Comedy when it was released too!

I have never listened to film or video game critics. Critics are just people with opinions. And everyone's opinion is different. Only a fool would let someone tell them how to feel about somethig.

The sepia tone hurt it badly. Glad it's been removed.

>spend a bajillion dollars >hire the most expensive actors >build the most extravagant sets >smear the print in shit so there isn't a dollar of it on screen 300iq directing the critics just weren't sophisticated enough to understand. seriously though, with such a hefty budget it could only fail, being art was not enough. it was doomed to be a commercial flop for having respect for its audience, both by being inaccessible and dense, but also by addressing historical colonial violence and racism, something that not even modern day america can address.

Amazing video essay!🎉

You know that saying "If you have to explain why a joke is funny, it's not a good joke?" That's how I feel about HEAVEN'S GATE. Yes, it's a movie that has good things in it, but it feels like people always need to explain why it's good, usually going into detail about history and the context of the Johnson County War. The actual plot of the movie doesn't really stand on its own or grab the audience's attention if they go in cold.